Intangiblia™
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#3 Podcast on Goodpods - Intellectual Property Podcast
Plain talk about Intellectual Property. Podcast of Intangible Law™
Intangiblia™
From Prototypes to Rockets: The Power of Design Thinking and First Principles Thinking
The greatest innovations often begin with a simple question: "What if we tried this differently?" In this fascinating exploration of innovation mindsets, we unpack the two complementary approaches that fuel breakthroughs—design thinking and first principles thinking.
hese very approaches are at the heart of my book Protection for the Inventive Mind, a practical fieldbook that helps inventors and creatives turn frustrations into prototypes and big ideas into protected strategies.
From the Wright brothers' wind tunnel experiments at Kitty Hawk to SpaceX landing rockets upright, we trace how returning to fundamental truths allows inventors to rebuild solutions from scratch. These stories show first principles thinking as the "logic scalpel" that cuts through assumptions and tradition to reveal new possibilities.
Alongside this analytical approach, we discover design thinking—the "empathy engine" that powers human-centered innovation. We see how watching an arthritic woman struggle with kitchen tools birthed OXO Good Grips, how children's tears transformed hospital MRI machines into pirate ships, and how PillPack revolutionized medication management by truly understanding patient frustrations.
The episode reveals surprising connections between seemingly unrelated innovations. The kingfisher bird's perfect dive inspired Japan's bullet train nose design. Velcro emerged when a Swiss engineer examined burrs stuck to his dog under a microscope. These moments of biomimicry demonstrate how nature offers solutions to our most persistent challenges.
What's particularly inspiring is how often world-changing ideas emerge from everyday annoyances—James Dyson's 5,000 vacuum prototypes, IKEA's flat-pack revelation from a stubborn table that wouldn't fit in a car, and Airbnb's humble beginnings with air mattresses on an apartment floor. These stories prove that frustration can be billion-dollar inspiration when viewed through the right lens.
Ready to apply these mindsets to your own challenges? Listen for five actionable innovation principles distilled from these remarkable stories, and discover how combining empathy with fundamental thinking can transform not just products, but experiences, systems, and culture itself. Whether you're sketching on a napkin or aiming for the stars, the way you think might be your greatest invention yet.
Picture this a frustrated engineer stares at a vacuum that keeps losing suction. A bird dives into water without a splash, inspiring the nose of a train. A rocket lands upright instead of burning in the sky. These aren't just stories of invention. They're proof that when you rethink from the ground up, or when you put yourself in someone else's shoes, you can change the world.
Speaker 1:You are listening to Intangiblia, the podcast of intangible law playing talk about intellectual property. Please welcome your host, leticia Caminero.
Speaker 3:Welcome to Intangiblia, the podcast where ideas meet the invisible rules that shape them. I'm Leticia Caminero, and today we're exploring the two great engines of modern innovation. And today we're exploring the two great engines of modern innovation design thinking and first principles thinking. One is rooted in empathy, the other in logic. Together, they fuel breakthroughs from kitchen tools to space exploration.
Speaker 2:And I'm Arco Misa, your AI co-host, ready to stir the pot, because behind every innovation, there's a rebel who dared to ask what if we tried this differently?
Speaker 3:And before we go further, a quick reminder Artemisa is powered by artificial intelligence. I'm your human host, but some of the commentary you'll hear has a digital spark.
Speaker 2:And, as always, this podcast is for your amusement and information. It is not legal advice.
Speaker 3:This theme is close to my heart. In my own work, I've seen how inventors struggle not just with the legal side of protection but with the mindset it takes to get an idea off the ground. That's why I wrote my book Protection for the Invented Mind. It's a practical field book that blends design thinking exercises with ways to break problems down to first principles the same tools behind the stories we're about to explore. Because whether you're sketching on a napkin or aiming for the stars, the way you think is just as important as the idea itself. Before we jump into the stories, let's pause for a moment. Two terms keep coming up today design thinking and first principles thinking. What do they?
Speaker 2:really mean. Think of design thinking as the empathy engine. It's all about stepping into someone else's shoes, spotting pain points, brainstorming without limits and then testing quick prototypes until the solution sticks. The stages usually run like this Empathize, define, ideate prototype, test, simple human iterative.
Speaker 3:And first, principles. Thinking is the logic scalpel. Instead of accepting how things are usually done, you cut problems down to their raw fundamentals. What do the laws of physics, math or basic economics say? Then you rebuild from the ground up. It's not about improving by 10%. It's about re-imagining from zero.
Speaker 2:So if design thinking asks what does the user feel and need? First principles asks what's true at the core? No matter what we assume, one starts with empathy, the other with physics. Together they're like the left and right hands of breakthrough innovation.
Speaker 3:And in this episode we'll see both in action. From birds inspiring Velcro to rockets landing themselves. Every story shows how these two mindsets fuel the biggest leaps forward. Mindsets fuel the biggest leaps forward. Close your eyes and picture it with me. A cold December morning, kitty Hawk 1903. The Atlantic wind is howling, the sand dunes are endless and two brothers are dragging a strange wooden contraption across the beach.
Speaker 2:It looks fragile, almost like it shouldn't be able to hold a person. Orville and Wilbur Wright weren't famous inventors. They were bicycle mechanics from Ohio, but here they were, about to change human history.
Speaker 3:They'd spend years building their own wind tunnel, carving propellers, testing wings again and again, everyone else was just trying to make bigger, heavier machines.
Speaker 2:The Wrights asked a simpler question what truly makes something fly? From first principles, they figured out that control mattered more than size.
Speaker 3:And then came that moment Orville climbed on, lying flat on his stomach, the little engine rattling, the machine lurched forward, lifted and for 12 seconds, just 120 feet.
Speaker 2:Humanity left the ground for the very first time.
Speaker 3:I've been to Kitty Hawk myself walking along that strip of sand. There's something about standing there that makes you feel the inventive energy still lingering, as if the dunes remember you realize the world literally shifted in those 12 seconds.
Speaker 2:And in those 12 seconds the rights unlocked, everything from passenger planes to Mars missions. Not bad for two guys with grease on their hands and a dream.
Speaker 3:Now let's fast forward to Switzerland in the 1950s. Picture a man coming home from a hike with his dog Socks, pants, the poor dog's fur all covered in burrs.
Speaker 2:Ugh, the universal hiker's nightmare. Most of us would grumble pick them off and move on.
Speaker 3:Not George Demestral. He was an engineer, and curiosity got the better of him. Instead of throwing the bur birds away, he pulled out a microscope.
Speaker 2:And what he saw was wild. Those birds weren't just sticky by accident. Tiny hooks grabbed onto loops of fabric and fur like a natural fastening system.
Speaker 3:That one observation became Velcro. It's a clear case of design thinking in the inspiration and ideation stage, powered by biomimicry, Demestrel empathized with the everyday annoyance, reframed it as a design challenge and turned it into a global fastening solution.
Speaker 2:So next time you rip open a Velcro strap with that satisfying sound, you're hearing the echo of a Swiss engineer who refused to ignore an annoying hype.
Speaker 3:Let's jump to England in the late 1970s. James Dyson is vacuuming his house and getting frustrated. The machine keeps losing suction.
Speaker 2:So um Classic the bag fills up with dust, the suction dies and you're left with a loud machine pushing crumbs around.
Speaker 3:Most people would just buy a new vacuum. Dyson did the opposite. He tore his apart to understand the problem.
Speaker 2:And he realized it wasn't about making a better bag. The bag was the problem.
Speaker 3:So he went back to first principles, thinking what's the core physics of suction? He borrowed cyclone technology from sawmills, where dust gets spun out of the air, and tried applying it to a household vacuum.
Speaker 2:And when I say tried, I mean tried more than 5,000 prototypes. That's design thinking too deep in the prototype and test stage.
Speaker 3:The result was the first backless vacuum that never lost suction. A household annoyance turned into a billion dollar company.
Speaker 2:Moral of the story if something in your house annoys you enough, it might just be your ticket to global innovation.
Speaker 3:In the early 1990s, Sam Farber is watching his wife peel apples. She has arthritis and every twist of the peeler hurts her hands.
Speaker 2:Ouch, that's the kind of quiet daily pain most people overlook until someone really pays attention.
Speaker 3:Instead of ignoring it, faber asked how can we make tools that are easier to grip? He partnered with designers, experimented with softer handles and came up with a new line of utensils that felt good in everyone's hands.
Speaker 2:And thus Oxo Good Grips was born. Big, cushy handles, sleek design. Suddenly, kitchen tools weren't just functional, they were inclusive.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking right At the empathy and ideation stage. It started with understanding a user's struggle, then reimagining the solution for all users.
Speaker 2:And the bonus. What began with one person's need became a global design standard. Solve for one win for millions.
Speaker 3:Sweden in the 1950s. An IKEA designer is trying to fit a bulky wooden table into his car. He pushes, he tilts, he wrestles and it just won't go.
Speaker 2:That's the universal car trunk struggle Usually ends with scratches on the door and a bruised ego.
Speaker 3:Instead of giving up, he unscrewed the table legs and suddenly problem solved. That simple moment became the seat of IKEA's flatback system Furniture designed to be transported easily and assembled at home.
Speaker 2:And let's be real, it also launched decades of couples arguing while holding an Allen key.
Speaker 3:True, but it also reshaped global retail. This is design thinking rooted in the prototype and test stage. It began with a personal frustration and grew into a scalable solution that changed how millions of people buy and move furniture.
Speaker 2:Sometimes innovation doesn't come from a lab. It comes from a stubborn table leg and a small car.
Speaker 3:Let's step into a hospital. Early 2000s, engineer Doug Dietz had just finished designing an MRI machine for GE. He was proud of it until he visited a hospital and saw a child about to use it. The little girl froze at the door, terrified, she burst into tears?
Speaker 2:Of course she did. The machine looked like a giant, noisy spaceship ready to swallow her whole.
Speaker 3:Doug realized the problem wasn't the technology, it was the experience. So he asked how can we make this less scary for kids? He worked with designers, doctors and parents. The MRI rooms became pirate ships, speed stations, even jungle adventures. Suddenly, kids weren't crying. They were excited to climb on board.
Speaker 2:Same machine new story they didn't redesign the hardware, they redesigned the feeling. That's design magic.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking. Deep in the empathy and ideation stages, doug put himself in the child's shoes, reframed the challenge and built an entirely new experience around the existing machine.
Speaker 2:And the results? Fewer sedations, happier kids and parents who could finally exhale.
Speaker 3:Now let's fast forward to San Francisco 2008. Two friends can't afford their rent. A design conference is coming to town, hotels are full and they think what if we rent out air mattresses on our apartment floor?
Speaker 2:Air mattresses. That's the glamorous origin story of Airbnb. Not private villas in Tuscany, but a blow up bed and a desperate rent check.
Speaker 3:Exactly. But here's where it gets interesting. They didn't stop with the idea. They visited early hosts, took photos themselves and listened carefully to guests. They realized trust and visuals mattered as much as price, so they redesigned the platform around better photos, reviews and easy booking.
Speaker 2:Empathy, iteration and more empathy. They weren't just building a website, they were building trust between strangers.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking in the test and iteration stages. Airbnb didn't scale because of coding genius alone. It scaled because the founders lived in their user's shoes and adapted fast.
Speaker 2:And from three air mattresses it turned into millions of listings. Proof that sometimes the floor is just the first step to the penthouse. Floor is just the first step to the penthouse.
Speaker 3:Let's peek into a bathroom. Early 2010s, oral-b researchers weren't sitting in labs. They were actually watching people brush their teeth and what they saw was not great. People rushed, missed spots and ignored the two-minute rule.
Speaker 2:So basically chaos with minty foam.
Speaker 3:Instead of adding more buttons or features, they simplified. They built a toothbrush with a timer that buzzed when two minutes were up and an interface so simple anyone could use it without thinking.
Speaker 2:And that tiny shift from tech heavy to user-friendly made brushing habits better worldwide.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking right In the observation and prototype stages. The breakthrough wasn't new tech. It was rethinking the user's everyday behavior and designing around it.
Speaker 2:Which means your dentist lecture may be a little shorter now.
Speaker 3:In the 2010s, ibm had a problem Brilliant engineers, yes, but their products Complicated, clunky and often out of touch with what users actually needed.
Speaker 2:Translation they were great at tech, not so great at people.
Speaker 3:So IBM made a radical move. They trained thousands of employees in design thinking, built creative IBM studios where coders sat next to designers and made empathy with the end user the first step in every project.
Speaker 2:Imagine a 100-year-old tech giant suddenly acting like a startup Sticky notes, rapid prototypes, testing with real users.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking applied at the cultural and organizational stage. Instead of one product, they redesign how the entire company innovates.
Speaker 2:And the payoff Products that people actually want to use and a corporate culture that remembers users aren't machines.
Speaker 3:A kitchen counter cluttered with pill bottles Morning pills in one bottle, evening pills in another. Some need food, others don't. For patients with multiple prescriptions, it's overwhelming and dangerous.
Speaker 2:Allow. The pharmacy exploded on the counter. One wrong move and you're taking your cholesterol pill at bedtime with your blood pressure dose at breakfast.
Speaker 3:Pocket. That chaos is what inspired PillPack. The founder started by interviewing patients, listening to the daily confusion, and then asked what if medications arrived pre-sorted by date and time? So they created little packets tear one open in the morning, one at night, and you're done.
Speaker 2:Simple, brilliant life-saving. It turned a medical maze into a daily routine. You can't mess up.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking. Focus on the empathy and prototype stages. The breakthrough was a new medicine.
Speaker 2:It was redesigning the delivery experience to match real patient needs, and in doing so they gave people more than convenience they gave them peace of mind.
Speaker 1:Intangiblia, the podcast of intangible law. Playing talk about intellectual property.
Speaker 3:Now let's leave the kitchen counters and head to the skies. It's 2016 and a slender futuristic airplane is gliding silently over the Pacific. Airplane is gliding silently over the Pacific. No roar of engines, no fuel tank in sight, just sunlight hitting thousands of solar cells on its wings.
Speaker 2:Solar impulse too. It looked like something out of science fiction, but it was very real A plane flying day and night, powered only by the sun.
Speaker 3:Pilots Bertrand Piccard and André Borsorschbert weren't trying to build the fastest or biggest aircraft. They went back to first principles, thinking what if we could eliminate fuel entirely? They designed ultralight materials, massive wings covered in solar panels and batteries to store energy overnight.
Speaker 2:And after 17 legs and 25,000 miles, they circled the globe. Zero fuel, zero emissions one giant leap for clean aviation.
Speaker 3:This is first principles at its boldest, breaking down aviation to its fundamentals and rebuilding it around the laws of physics, not tradition.
Speaker 2:And proving to the world that sustainability doesn't have to crawl it can fly.
Speaker 3:Uma si gana. Imagine a crowded neighborhood with no proper toilets. Families rely on public latrines, blocks away, or makeshift solutions at home. It's unsafe, undignified and unhealthy solutions at home.
Speaker 2:It's unsafe, undignified and unhealthy and let's be honest if you've never had to plan your day around whether there's a toilet nearby, you'll probably take that privilege for granted. Enter.
Speaker 3:Clean Team Ghana. Instead of importing expensive toilets, they went into communities, listened to residents and asked what do you really need? People wanted privacy, affordability and convenience. So Clean Team created a service compact toilets installed at home, with waste collected regularly for treatment. This is design thinking squarely in the empathy and co-creation stages. The innovation wasn't just a product. It was a process of designing with the community, not for them.
Speaker 3:And the result Safer streets, cleaner homes and families who could finally stop worrying about the most basic human need. It's the mid-2000s and Burberry, the heritage British brand known for trench coats, was fading. Sales were sluggish, the brand felt old-fashioned and younger generations weren't buying in.
Speaker 2:Burberry had gone from chic to your grandma's raincoat not exactly aspirational chic to your grandma's raincoat not exactly aspirational.
Speaker 3:Then CEO Angela Ahrens and Chief Creative Officer Christopher Bailey decided to rethink the brand. They studied how their customers were living digital first, Social media savvy Bluetooth screens so they stream fashion shows online, added interactive in-store tech and launched social campaigns that spoke directly to younger buyers.
Speaker 2:They didn't just sell coats, they sold digital experiences. Suddenly, burberry was everywhere. Instagram worthy music festival ready, global again.
Speaker 3:This was design thinking operating at the empathy and ideation stages. By understanding their audience's habits and reimagining how fashion could be experienced, Burberry reinvented itself.
Speaker 2:And the takeaway sometimes the real runway isn't in Milan or Paris, it's on your phone screen.
Speaker 3:It's a Friday night, you flop onto the couch, you open Netflix and you don't have to scroll for hours. Somehow the platform knows you want a light comedy after a long week.
Speaker 2:Creepy or magical, depending on how you feel about algorithms spying on your popcorn habits.
Speaker 3:What looks like magic is really years of design thinking. Netflix didn't assume everyone wanted the same catalog. They studied what people actually clicked, tested endless variations of the homepage and built algorithms that learned from every choice. They didn't stop at the tech. They redesigned the entire viewing experience around personalization.
Speaker 2:Your guilty pleasure rom-coms, your dark Scandinavian crime dramas. Do you want to see Red? That's Netflix tailoring the ride just for you.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking squarely in the test and iteration stages. They empathize with a user's frustration and choice overload and turn it into a seamless, curated experience.
Speaker 2:And in the process they rewired how the entire world consumes stories.
Speaker 3:Rewind to 2007. A reader curls up in bed, opens a slim white device and, instead of pages, words appear on a screen that looks almost like paper no glare, no heavy stack of books. This is the very first Kindle.
Speaker 2:Imagine the shock a whole library in your hands, but lighter than a paperback.
Speaker 3:Jeff Bezos had one clear vision the device should disappear in the reader's hands. The technology ink screens, wireless downloads, long battery life was there, but the real innovation was how natural it felt. Readers didn't have to learn a new habit, they just read.
Speaker 2:And suddenly airports weren't full of people juggling. Five novels one Kindle problem solved.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking rooted in the empathy and prototype stages. The question wasn't how do we digitize books, but how do we keep the joy of reading intact in digital form.
Speaker 2:And the answer turned Amazon from a bookstore into a publishing empire.
Speaker 3:Made 1,990 S in Japan. Gas prices are climbing, environmental concerns are rising and Toyota's engineers are asking a question few others dared. What if a car didn't have to run only on gasoline?
Speaker 2:Remember back then the idea of a hybrid car sounded like sci-fi. People thought you either had a gas guzzler or you walked.
Speaker 3:Instead of tinkering with existing engines, toyota went back to first principles thinking. Start from the basics. A car is just energy, moving wheels. Why not split that job between a smaller gas engine and an electric motor with regenerative braking to capture wasted energy?
Speaker 2:And outrolled the Prius in 1997, the world's first mass produced hybrid hybrid, quiet, efficient and a complete break from convention.
Speaker 3:This is first principles. At the system design stage, Toyota didn't just improve a car.
Speaker 2:They reimagined what a car could be from the ground up and in the process they opened the highway for hybrids and EVs everywhere.
Speaker 3:Cape Canaveral 2015. A rocket roars into the sky carrying satellites. Normally this is a one-way trip. The first stage burns out and crashes into the ocean. Billions of dollars gone in minutes.
Speaker 2:That's how spaceflight worked for decades. Use once, throw away Like lighting money on fire and waving goodbye.
Speaker 3:But SpaceX asked the forbidden question why can't rockets be reused like airplanes? Going back to first principles, thinking their engineers broke down the costs metal fuel, labor. None of it had to vanish with each launch if you could just land the rocket safely.
Speaker 2:And then came the jaw drop moment the Falcon 9's first stage flipped around, fired its engines and landed upright on a drone ship at sea.
Speaker 3:A sight straight out of science fiction. This is first principles.
Speaker 2:at the prototype and test stage, they ignored the assumption that rockets were disposable and revealed the rules of space flight, and with that landing they changed the economics of space forever.
Speaker 3:Japan, 1990s. Engineers are proud of their shinkans and bullet trains, but every time the trains blasted out of a tunnel, they created a thunderclap that startled neighborhoods for miles.
Speaker 2:Imagine waiting at home and every few minutes it sounds like a cannon went off. Not exactly the soundtrack of progress.
Speaker 3:One of the engineers, Eiji Nakatsu, was also a birdwatcher, and one day, watching a kingfisher dive into water without a splash, he wondered could that shape solve the train's noise problem?
Speaker 2:See, birdwatching isn't just a hobby, it's industrial design inspiration.
Speaker 3:Nakatsu and his team reshaved the train's nose after the kingfisher's peak. The result no sonic boom, less drag and even higher speeds.
Speaker 2:This is design thinking in the inspiration and ideation stages. It started with empathy, not for passengers, but for the people living near the tracks, and turned into biomimicry at its best.
Speaker 3:January 2007, a packed auditorium in San Francisco. Steve Jobs walks on stage and says today Apple is going to reinvent the phone. The crowd bosses. Until then, phones had tiny keyboards, clunky menus and no real internet experience.
Speaker 2:Basically, your smartphone was more like a stubborn calculator with bad manners.
Speaker 3:Apple flipped the script. Instead of buttons, they gave us a screen you could touch, pinch, swipe, tap gestures that felt natural, like pointing at the world inside your pocket.
Speaker 2:And suddenly people weren't carrying phones, they were carrying little computers, cameras and jukeboxes all in one sleek design.
Speaker 3:This is design thinking rooted in the empathy and prototype stages. Apple didn't ask how do we make a better phone. They asked what do people actually want to do with it? And then design every detail, hardware and software around that experience.
Speaker 2:And in the process, they reprogrammed culture, how we communicate, work date shop, even how we doom scroll at 3 am.
Speaker 3:Now for one of the most famous design thinking experiments ever. It's 1999 and IDEO is asked to redesign something so ordinary most of us never think twice the shopping cart.
Speaker 2:And here's the twist they had just five days to do it. Oh, and TV cameras were rolling for an ABC Nightline special.
Speaker 3:Instead of locking themselves in a boardroom, the team went out into supermarkets. They watched parents juggling kids, shoppers worry about theft, customers stuck in narrow aisles. They took notes, brainstormed wildly and prototyped on the spot with duct tape and plastic.
Speaker 2:Chaos, post-its and cart parts flying everywhere Exactly what innovation looks like before it gets polished.
Speaker 3:The result A new concept with modular baskets, swivel wheels and improved safety. Not a perfect solution, but a powerful demonstration of design thinking and action Empathy, ideation, prototype test, all in less than a week.
Speaker 2:And, more importantly, it showed the world that innovation isn't about lone geniuses. It's about teams willing to get messy fast.
Speaker 3:We've just traveled from airstrips in Kitty Hawk to runways in London, from kitchens and bathrooms to rockets and solar skies 20 stories all showing how design thinking and first principle thinking can reshape the world. So what can we take?
Speaker 2:away. Here are five power moves, sharpened and ready for your own projects.
Speaker 3:One empathy sparks innovation, Whether it's OXO utensils or clean Team Ghana toilets, breakthroughs begin when someone notices human struggle and listens deeply.
Speaker 2:Two first principles break barriers. Spacex and Toyota didn't tweak old systems. They stripped them to basics and rebuilt them on fundamental truths.
Speaker 3:Nature is a teacher Velcro's burst and the Kingfisher's, big proof that biomimicry is design thinking with millions of years of R&D behind it.
Speaker 2:Four prototyping is progress. Dyson's 5,000 failed vacuums, ideo's duct-taped carts and Netflix's endless A-slash-B tests all show that iteration is the path, not the obstacle.
Speaker 3:Five. Innovation comes in all scales, from a toothbrush timer to a solar power-powered airplane. No improvement is too small or too ambitious when guided by the right mindset.
Speaker 2:And here's the bonus takeaway. Frustration is often the best starting point Birds sticking to your socks, a vacuum that doesn't work, a rocket that's too expensive to throw away. Annoyances can be billion dollar ideas in disguise.
Speaker 3:And if you want to practice these mindsets yourself. That's exactly why I wrote my book Protection for the Indentive Mind. It's a field book full of exercises that help you empathize, break problems down to fundamentals and protect your ideas strategically, because these stories aren't just history lessons. They are blueprints for your own inventive path. This has been Indangiblia, where we explore the invisible threads that connect innovation and intellectual property. Today, we saw how design thinking and first principles thinking, empathy and logic side by side, shaped some of the world's biggest breakthroughs.
Speaker 2:And remember every invention starts with a question. Sometimes it's why is this so annoying? Sometimes it's what if we rip this apart and started fresh? Both are rocket fuel for new ideas.
Speaker 3:Thank you for joining us on this journey from prototypes to rockets. Until next time, keep questioning, keep observing and keep inventing.
Speaker 2:And who knows, your next frustration could be the world's next breakthrough. See you in the future.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Intangiblia, the podcast of intangible law playing. Talk about intellectual property. Did you like what we talked today? Please share with your network. Do you want to learn more about intellectual property? Subscribe now on your favorite podcast player. Follow us on Instagram, facebook, linkedin and Twitter. Visit our website wwwintangibliacom. Copyright Leticia Caminero 2020. All rights reserved. This podcast is provided for information purposes only.
