Ad Chatter

Ad Chatter, Season 2, Episode 12: Joe Cole Talks Clean Creatives and We Are Rosie

December 06, 2021 David Burn and Dan Goldgeier Season 2 Episode 12
Ad Chatter
Ad Chatter, Season 2, Episode 12: Joe Cole Talks Clean Creatives and We Are Rosie
Show Notes Transcript

A new generation of ad pros is getting more vocal about what they’re willing (and not willing) to work on, and how to do their work. Joe Cole is at the intersection of both of those ideas. He’s the Creative Strategist for Clean Creatives and a Creative Recruiter for We Are Rosie.

In this 35-minute Ad Chatter episode, Dan Goldgeier talks with Joe about whether fossil fuel advertising could become as verboten as tobacco marketing has been and why other related businesses like banks and gas stations aren’t targets of this effort. 

Dan and Joe also discuss the We Are Rosie platform, the benefits of not being tied to full-time employment, and what hiring managers are looking for in ad talent today. 

Speaker 1:

Welcome to ad chatter. The podcast from ad pulp.com , where we gather around the virtual water cooler and talk about ads and the ad business.

Speaker 2:

Hello, friends and colleagues. Welcome to ad chatter from ad pulp.com . I'm your host and gold Geier . My co-host David burn is on assignment. Well , uh , I don't know if he really is on assignment, but it sounds kind of cool to say that he is on assignment, but today we're gonna discuss a couple of hot button topics in the ad industry. Whether some advertising professionals can convince the industry as a whole to stop working for fossil fuel clients, despite our society's reliance on fossil fuels. And we'll also get into whether full-time employment with one agency or company is simply not attractive, not as attractive as it used to be. And what one of the major alternatives looks like. So with me today is Joe Cole . Joe is the creative strategist for an organization called clean creative. And he's also the creative recruiter for, we are Rosie a platform for on demand marketing talent, lots to discuss let's get right into it. Joe Cole , welcome to ad chatter.

Speaker 3:

Hey, great to be here.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, you're a , you're sort of at the nexus of a lot of changing , um, added twos and morays in the , in , in the industry, especially among younger professionals. And I wanted to kind of get into this cuz you're involved with an organization that has been in the news. Uh, we've talked about it on this show once or twice. It's called clean creatives. Tell us a little bit about what the mission of that organization is.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so , uh , clean creatives at its , um , at its nexus at its at its center , um, is trying to get ad agencies to stop working on fossil fuel clients , uh, somewhat in a , in a mirroring of what happened when ad agencies were kind of forced by internal and ex and external pressure to stop working on tobacco clients about 20, 25 years ago.

Speaker 2:

Right. And you know, there are still , uh, agencies, I think, you know, that do a lot of tobacco marketing. It's not cool, it's uncool and it's and if you're a creative person, like a , a writer, an art director, it's not much of a , um, a big creative opportunity anymore, but you know, it sort of worked its way into experiential and, and , and promot things. But, you know, they still have a right to market themselves. And I guess my question is what is it about fossil fuels that, or specifically fossil fuel clients that you think is just a no go or why people should say, I don't wanna do this anymore?

Speaker 3:

Well, I mean , uh , to , to speak to your first point real quick , um, I think even though, you know, tobacco marketing, yes, it still happens, but it's not happening. You know, it's not happening out in front. It's not, it's not being worked on by the top creatives. It's not being worked on by the top agencies. If they are working on it, it's on a secret floor or secret building people, aren't putting it on their resumes. They're not, they're not putting it in their portfolios. They're not, it's not necessarily work that you're proud of. I mean, I know personally for myself and, you know , speaking anecdotally , um , for other people that I've turned down the opportunity to interview for , um , tobacco clients. So yeah. You know, to kind of flip into the , the next part of it, it's something that, you know, of , you know, tobacco speaking for tobacco and fossil fuels, creatives are starting to think, you know, increasingly for the latter that it's not something that they would wanna work on or be part of. Um, and what we're trying to do at creatives is force, you know, these top shops that do have , um , these long term , you know, advertising contracts, I think B , B , D O has been working on Chevron for something like 27 years. Mm-hmm <affirmative> , I could have that slightly wrong. Um, we wanna force it, you know, to go from these, a list agencies to something like, you know, the C list or the D list . And the work gets the work is less good. And in , in doing so, you know, it becomes less effective. It becomes , uh , less something that people wanna work on , uh , which means it gets hard to recruit people to work on it. It just has like these cascading effects that, you know, overall, because , um, you know, these fossil fuel companies are responsible for around 75% of carbon pollution. Um, if we have even a 1% effect on that, that's massive. And, you know , I think that realistically, you know , when , and we have ad agencies bragging that they've increased sales for their , um, their , um , you know, oil and gas companies by, you know, 10, 23% year over year, if they're no longer doing that, we're gonna have a much bigger effect on mm-hmm <affirmative> , um , the state of carbon I pollution, which

Speaker 2:

Sure. But let me, let me give you the sta the skeptics look at this, and then , you know , I'm sure you've gotten a lot of, there's a lot of people out there who'll say, okay, but we are all dependent on fossil fuels right now. Maybe not in the future, maybe not in 20 years from now, but we're all, you know, we're all in cars, we're all getting on planes. We're all, you know, ordering packages that, and for the holiday season that are getting shipped to us on ships and, and , uh , through other transportation means that that end up using fossil fuels. So what is the argument about, okay, well, we can't advertise this legitimate business anymore. I mean, you can, you can make an argument. Let's. I mean, I don't wanna leave the tobacco thing alone after this, but , uh , you know , tobacco, you know , generally was causing a lot of death and, and , and they famously, I remember in the nineties, the , uh, tobacco executives denied it was causing cancer. So where's the argument for, okay. Fossil fuels are sort of an evil that should not be advertised, or we don't want them to be advertised

Speaker 3:

Well, I mean, yeah, there's, there's so many different ways to, to talk about this one. I , I think at fossil fuel companies, you know, with what they're doing with climate change, which is, you know, impacting the lives of everybody around the world, I think that's gonna have an even bigger impact on people's lives than, you know, tobacco did because, you know, other than secondhand smoke, people who are smoking were generally only affecting themselves and potentially, you know, healthcare systems in the government climate change is impacting everything. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, so that's one side of it. I think that, you know, there's a couple other angles here. One is that , um, you know, just because energy companies, you know, oil and gas companies , um, just because they do need advertising and they do have a legitimate business doesn't mean that, you know, a lot of the focus that , uh , their current advertising model is talking about , uh , is kind of greenwashing the rest of their business. It's presenting kind of a false front of, oh, we're, you know, looking to , um , other other forms of energy, we're investing, you know, millions of dollars into these other things. Um, but you know, at the end day, 99% of their, you know, investment is still going to fossil fuel , um , projects. So they're kind of presenting a false , um, image to the, to society, through advertising mm-hmm <affirmative> , um, and you know, what it comes to this , um, you know, obviously yes, we are still dependent on, in some way on fossil fuels, but because of how alternative energy sources have , um, gotten cheaper, I mean , solars continues to go treat , grow , grow cheaper than, you know, people ever thought it was possible. Yeah . And you know, it , if we can, you know, wean ourselves away from fossil fuels, there are a lot of other issues to be solved in order to get to a place, you know, where we're not just carbon zero, but , uh , nets zero we're carbon negative, and we're, you know, reversing the effects of , uh , climate change. Uh , we do have enough capacity. We have enough industry to , um, meet our energy needs if we're only willing to make the change. And again , uh , this isn't something that's happening, you know, to generations from now or something that, you know, our great grandkids will deal with. This is something that we , we, me and you and everybody listening to this mm-hmm <affirmative> are currently dealing with today. Um, you know, the time to make the change is now, and there's not really an opportunity to continue delaying in much further. Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 2:

I would love, and I've said this before , I would love to see the ad industry do for solar, what it has done for fossil fuels in terms of taking somebody, some producer of whether it's solar panels or solar systems and just making them just the most admirable brand in the world. And I haven't seen it. Um, I've seen small efforts, but I haven't seen big ones, but let's talk a little bit about what clean creatives has done. Um , have you had any inroads into these big agencies? Have you had any , uh, substance substantive discussions with them about doing this? Um, what's the , what's the mechanics of which you're going about trying to make change?

Speaker 3:

Totally. So right now we have , uh , as of, as of a few days ago and it , the number of keeps keeps growing , uh , in leaps and bounds, but we have 217 agencies who have signed this pledge. Wow. Um , a lot of them aren't, you know, the biggest agencies in the world. There's not, to my knowledge, there haven't been a lot of agencies or maybe even any agencies who have, you know, ended a fossil fuel agreement, signed our pledge. But , uh , we , you know, we've had contacts and conversations with some of the biggest , uh, you know, people at the C-suite level , uh , for some of the biggest agencies in the world, you know, like people like global chief creative officers, or, you know , senior vice presidents , um , we've had, you know , there's , there's definitely agencies out there that seem to have somewhat of a , um , kind of moving in the same, a parallel path, you know , movement with us, you know , whether they're going B Corp or, you know, their , you know , the , the work that they're doing seem to be very aligned , uh , with, with us, whether it's from , uh , an environmental justice social justice perspective, or just the kinds of clients. And , uh , they take on the work they do. Um, but yeah, so as of now, we, we've only had a few kind of like bigger agencies , um, sign to us at fuera is one , uh , F and B New York is another. Um, but we fully anticipate that , um, once , once some bigger names sign on and it'll be kind of like , um, kinda like a one snowflake turns into an avalanche sort of thing, mm-hmm , <affirmative> like, yeah . Uh , we know that, you know, there are a lot of agencies and a lot of conversations happening , uh , within holding companies and agencies about this. Um, you know, people tell us because they work, they work with these agencies. I mean, Edelman is probably probably , uh , what you , what you mentioned. We were in the news for , um, Edelman, you know, how to address a , a big thing that, you know, we, we were part of and help helped to get to light , uh , an open letter to them , uh, signed by a bunch of, you know, really creative and environment, really creative people in the industry, as well as , uh , environmental activists , uh , kind of focusing on, you know, their work. So, you know , we, we hear what's going on inside agencies, inside holding companies, and we're seeing the , the small steps they're taking, which mm-hmm , <affirmative> sadly in many cases, isn't enough. Um, but you know , we're , that's why we're here to continue to put pressure on them from the outside to continue to give people on the inside tools, resources, ideas , uh , in order to, you know, connect with their colleagues and, you know, make, make a change.

Speaker 2:

Have you had a conversation with somebody in , in a holding company or somebody very high up who says, I really love what you're trying to do, but I just can't talk about it. I just can't do it. I just can't go there because, you know, they're scared to lose their job or make waves or, or whatnot . I mean , so very, you know, it's a very controversial, I

Speaker 3:

Idea . Uh, yeah, I mean, speaking, speaking more for our whole team, we've definitely had , uh , I've had a few of those , uh , I know Duncan , uh , who's kind of like the, the head of clean creatives. He's had a lot more, we've definitely talked with people who, you know, again, you know, some of these very senior people who have signed our pledge as individuals, but not , um, as the whole agency and sometimes their agency doesn't even , um, work in any fossil fuel , um , companies mm-hmm <affirmative> , but their holding company might have some in , you know, in a different agency. So it's something that, you know, again, we're, we're putting the pressure on and it helps that, you know, because climate change is something that's gonna increasingly affect people. The younger you are, you know, people who are typically in the C-suite , uh , tend to be more immune to, you know, climate change personally affecting them, whether, because , um, the color of their skin or the age, or because you know, how much money they have in their bank account. But, you know, the further down you get, the more likely it is that climate change is something that's going to affect them. So it always helps to, you know, when we could say to a junior copywriter, an ad agency, like, Hey, you should go talk, you should reach out to, you know, the , the CEO of your office or the chief, you know, the global, the global , uh, chief creative officer, because they're an ally they're on the same page as you, they, they agree with you. And it always helps to have friends in high places when you're trying to kind of reform a system from the inside, which is what a lot of people are trying to do right now, you know , across the nation in the world. Yeah .

Speaker 2:

There were a couple of articles in ad week , last week , uh , um , that one of them was an editorial perspective from a woman who worked at Edelman. She was a senior vice president for, I think, you know , she had worked 20 years in , in public relations and she decided to leave. And this was a few years ago, she left her job , uh , because she was dissatisfied with the way Edelman was approaching their fossil fuel clients and, and the way that they were handled this issue . But my question is going back to, you know, senior people and old man bill Bach used to say a principal, isn't a principal until it costs you money, are people really willing to quit their jobs over this? Have you seen anybody willing to say I'm out other than , um , other than the Edelman?

Speaker 3:

Yeah , I think anecdotally, yes. Um , I've definitely seen people who this is part of it. Um, I think that, you know, there's a lot of other factors at play here and I'm sure we're gonna get into, you know, the remote work possible when we talk about we Rosie . But , um, for me personally , um, <affirmative>, it's something that like climate change and, and, you know, agency stances on both their clients and, you know, the clients I've been working on has something that, you know, it definitely impacted me. Like, I didn't feel like I was making the world a better place. Um, so I know that other people have taken this into account as far as it being the only reason. Like, I don't know. I don't know if I know any off the top of my head say like, yeah, I was making one 50 a year. I , you know, I'd been with this agency for 10 years and they wouldn't, they wouldn't , uh , leave their fossil fuel clients. So I left them . I don't know that we've, we've hit that point yet, but I think that's something that's coming. Mm-hmm <affirmative>

Speaker 2:

What will it take ? What , what would it take?

Speaker 3:

I mean, there was a quote somewhere and I'm , I'm slightly par making it wrong. Sally it's climate change is something you see about on a it's something you see on a screen until you see it happening in real life. <laugh> . Yeah. Um , I think it , it was like, it was a video of these people. I think, I think it was , it was a tweet, it was a video of these people on , um , on like a car ferry and they had been evacuated in Greece and the whole like, sky, like it's just on fire. And it's at contrast with like the, the fluorescent light of this car ferry. And everyone just kind of like standing there, like watching this horrific thing happening mm-hmm <affirmative> and I think as more and more of those things happen, which, you know, as we've seen over the past few years, like, yeah, we don't get a crazy hurricane in every city every year or a crazy fire happening in every part of the world every year, but as more and more of them happen and people, you know, start to wake up and realize like, Hey, wow, I have two kids. And, you know, if it's, you know, expon really getting worse for me and what's it gonna be like for them. Right . I think you're gonna see a lot more people willing to willing to , um, take a stance there. I , I definitely know people who have avoided, you know, as I mentioned, I, I, you know , I've turned down, work on tobacco. Clients have turned down , work on , um , us government agencies , uh , military agencies. Um, I know people are starting to put that into their internal calculus, like, oh, like I don't, I'm not , I don't want to work on this. Um, I don't want to interview for this. I know people within agencies that do work on this , uh , sort of stuff, B , B , D O Wunderman Thompson. Oh , will be. I know we have lots of stories where people have been asked if they wanna work on a particular fossil fuel client and they've turned that down and, you know, continued to work at the agency in other places. Yeah . But I think, I think it is gonna be something because, you know, when frankly, when we were kids, yes, climate changes are already happening, but it wasn't something, something that , um, people thought about every day . And increasingly, as people think about this thing on a , a weekly daily basis, it will be something that affects their entire calculus, like where they live, where they work, who they end up with, if they decide to have kids. Yeah . All of those things, because it is such a , it is gonna be such an omnipresent part of our life.

Speaker 2:

Sure, sure. You know, I live in Seattle and one of there's , um , this is a very politically active town. There are a lot of protests , uh , very regularly for a lot of different causes. And when the environmental , um , movement wants to protest fossil fuels, they go to JP Morgan chase. They go to chase bank, basically the downtown bank location. So my question is because JP Morgan chase obviously funds, you know, provides loans and , and financial for a lot of this fossil fuel companies . So is it a slippery slope for cream creatives where you say, okay, we don't want , we don't want agencies to advertise the banks or gas stations or other folks that are part of this ecosystem of fossil fuels. Is that a legitimate part of clean creatives mission or , or not

Speaker 3:

At this moment right now, we're focused on the worst of the worst, which is mm-hmm <affirmative> fossil fuel clients. I think as, as the, as that mission continues to go forward, if we can get, if we can, as I said, we, fossil fuel clients are responsible for 75% of carbon emissions. If we can make a sizable dent in that, that will have outsize effects on the total amount of carbon emissions. Are there other people who are connected to , um, to the , to that, to that industry? Absolutely. Whether they're banks or shipping companies, or, you know, asked fashion, they all have a part to play, but as we, as a society, as a , as a , as a species move away from fossil fuels, all of those other things are much smaller problems to solve, at least in relation. And, you know, as we move towards clean energy, towards green energy, all of that will we'll have a change downstream. Mm-hmm , <affirmative> , it's just, you have to start somewhere and we're, we're choosing to start at the biggest, most obvious target who's responsible for the most.

Speaker 2:

Right. Got it. So there was , uh , last week , uh , also in the news, a recent , uh , peer reviewed article in the journal called climactic change , uh, came out. It was , uh , some, I think it was some Boston university researchers. And what they showed is that PR firms are a key organizational actor in climate politics. Now we tend to sort of compartmentalize I've worked in the end industry a long time. We tend to compartmentalize political marketing and advertising from consumer marketing and advertising. Uh , I guess my question is, is clean creatives gonna branch out into climate policy and also try to, in fact, you know, we got a big election coming up, midterm election in , in November. Are you getting people to, to , uh , think about, you know, the fact that advertising and , and public relations firms influence politicians, they influence the policy, they influence the laws that are perpetuating this climate climate change .

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I mean, we, we actually are already doing that. So there's , uh , there's been a number of , um , city governments and state governments that have started to pursue lawsuits or , um, you know , um, kind of panels into looking how advertising in PR has helped , um , the fossil fuel industry. Uh , right now we're working with , um, RO representative roun and to kind of investigate this. And I know that I forget exactly the name of the committee, but , uh , representative Maloney as going to subpoena oil companies, ask them about the work they've done with over 180 agencies. So we definitely are letting a fire there because I mean, that's where that's honestly where a lot of the money that comes outta fossil fuel companies goes is towards affecting, you know, government at the state and state local and federal level, like around the world. Um, so we're, we're definitely trying to, you know, do our part that obviously we don't have billions of dollars to play around and , and lobbying money, but, you know, we're always trying to punch above our weight anyways.

Speaker 2:

Sure, sure. Well, it sounds like that's a very big , um, part of where I think a lot of attitudes in the ad industry are going, people want more control over the kind of work they do. They want to have more control over where they do it. And that leads me into the next , uh, section of your work, which is you are a creative strategist, or excuse me, a sorry, creative recruiter for, we are rosy . Tell us a little bit about we Rosie , we've talked a little bit about it on , uh , previous ad chatter , uh , episodes, but , uh, talk to us a little bit about what it is .

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So we are , Rosie is basically a, a new kind of way to recruit talent. Uh , we, we think of ourselves as a marketplace for freelancers versus something like a , a , you know, a creative circle or, you know, another kind of talent agency, which is kind of existing to kind of match companies with talent and then kind of steps back mm-hmm <affirmative> . Um , as somebody who spent eight plus years in advertising, I worked with a lot of different staffing agencies. Um, and you know, there were definitely some I liked and some, I didn't like some , I felt , uh , kind of like a cog in the machine or, you know, just a number. Yeah. There's , I'm sure many other <laugh> advertisers can relate to being reached out to, by a recruiter who had no interest in knowing who you were and offered you a role that had little or nothing to do with your skillset or background. I still got those emails. So I I'm sure

Speaker 2:

I'm what people do too. I'm a freelance copywriter. I get them all the time. I get 'em every I get 'em every week. So what is the, what is the process for, for becoming a rosy ? And I think a , I think everybody is a rosy if they join, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So we have a free community. Uh, it's free to join. Just kind of gives you a little bit information about, about yourself, everything from like the , um, kind of your skillset , your background, what you're looking for next , uh , the amount of hours you're trying to work again, we're trying to , we're trying to promote freelancing as a model remote work , um, full flex, like all those sorts of things are , are , are what we're, what we're aiming for. Uh, which means that we're a little bit more high touch when it comes to , um, our Rosie's than , uh, you know, a staffing agency might be because we typically don't place full-time roles, we place freelancers. So we might get people working with us again and again, and again, I think, I think somewhere , I think the , the current record is somewhere well on the teens for, for somebody who's worked, you know, 13, 14, 15 plus , um , through us mm-hmm , <affirmative> , we've had op we've had people , um, leave their staffing agency remain with the same employer and then kind of succeed <laugh> to us. Yeah . Uh , so we're, we're , we're really great because I think we, we developed this model and this rapport with our Rosies , we, you know, as somebody who was a strategist creative strategist before kind of do do these things, I, I work a lot with copywriters with art directors, creative directors, sometimes like these really niche roles. And, you know, sometimes I don't, I don't get it right, because I wasn't necessarily a visual designer and people were like, oh, that's not my background. I'm like, okay, well, tell me a little bit more about what is your background, so I can file that away. So, you know, we are better equipped, not just me, but our whole team to find a role that's a little bit closer to what you're looking for in the future.

Speaker 2:

So if someone signs up to be a rosy , does that exclusively , um, bind them to you? Are they still free to go about other , uh , freelance op opportunities or, or , or is there, is there difference, I guess I'm trying to figure out the difference between the R woosie model and let's say the creative circle model, what is, you know, what's the advantage.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I think, I think they're free to, well , not , I think they're definitely free to pursue any other freelancing opportunities, whether they're, you know, do it through another agency or through a company or through contacts , wherever they are throughout the industry. We have, mm-hmm , <affirmative> a lot of times I reach out to somebody and they're, you know, already working somewhere or they have a , they picked up a new contract and, you know , I say, Hey, like, you know, let me know when you're available and I'll reach back out then , uh , potentially, or, you know, feel free to reach out if it doesn't work out. Um, I think it's just another, another way that freelancers or people who are looking to pick up a little bit of freelancing on the side of a full-time job , uh, just another way that they can another, another tool to find freelance opportunities. And, you know, as I said, I think that we're not , I think, I mean, I , having been, somebody's been on the other side, like we're done definitely different than every other staffing agency model, because we're focused exclusively on freelancers and we have a very active role. It's not just a database for companies to look through. Right. Or we have the database and we have people who are actively looking through for talent . Mm-hmm

Speaker 2:

<affirmative> . Is it , so who are you , who are you working with in terms of agencies and companies and brands ?

Speaker 3:

Um, yeah, I mean, we're, we're placing talent at some of the top tech companies , uh, in the world , uh , everything from Amazon to Microsoft, to Google, to Twitter , um, to Facebook. Um, and we're working with also , uh , a number of different , uh, ad agencies as well. I've, I've been lucky enough to talent or at least attempt to place talent at a , at a number of different companies. And it's been, it's been really awesome because we, you know, we have a, such a, such a high level of talent within our database of, of Rosie free answers. So it's awesome to see them kind of be able to work on these really awesome projects and add to their book and continue growing their skill set .

Speaker 2:

Great. So, you know, at this point we're recording this since December, 2021 and the story last year, of course, in COVID was tens of thousands of people getting laid off in the ad industry. And because of the , just was so fear of the unknown this year , uh, all the reports are, there's a big hiring, there's just competition for talent. Um, what are you noticing as a creative recruiter in terms of what employers are asking for, and also what creatives want?

Speaker 3:

Um, I , I mean, I think at least, again, speaking personally from my, my, my own perspective, I think that prior to COVID happening, a lot of people weren't sure that they could work from home and they weren't sure if they could freelance , uh , people preferred kind of like, you know, the safety of the office and kind of like what , what they , what the known quantity was of working in an office, having a full-time job, having benefits. Um , I think, you know, COVID forcing people to , to work from home , um , also forcing people who got laid off to kind of have to figure it out and kind of think on their feet. I think it opened up a lot of opportunities , uh , that you see, you know, kind of kind out this year with the , you know, the great resignation quote unquote happening , uh, you know, with a lot of people saying, why am I working? Why am I working in an office when I can be at home and spend time with my kids , um, and do the same amount of work, maybe potentially even make more money and maybe even work less that I think we're also seeing a great decoupling , uh , at the center of all this of people , um, not being as tied to working, you know, 50, 60 hour work weeks traveling to, and from an office. And, you know, having that be such a major part of that identity, they're , they're seeing the value and maybe, maybe earning just slightly less, but working half as much, you know, especially if you factor in commute time, I spend time more time on activities, friends, family , um, whatever it is that actually, you know, fuels them mm-hmm <affirmative> and, you know, in our industry where there is such a need for freelancers, always , um, people, people , you know, if they've worked at an agency, if they've worked at a big, big company, if they've worked in any kind of creative team, they've almost certainly been exposed to other people freelancing. So it's not kind of something that's unknown. And I think more and more people ha have seen the appeal of, you know, for whatever reason, you know, as , as , as I just said, there's definitely a lot of them out there and maybe it's a combination, but , uh , people are seeing that it's, it's something that they can do and they can succeed in and, you know, I've been , and really happy to see people who have, you know , decided to take the leap for the first time. Yeah . And be able to do it , even if they've just, you know, got the interview and didn't, didn't end up doing it. Um, just, you know, taking those first steps in order to , um, see if it's something that's for them . Got

Speaker 2:

It. And what are the employers looking for? Are there certain skills, certain, certain tactics, are they looking for, you know , social creatives, viral of people with certain backgrounds? What , what is what's in demand these days?

Speaker 3:

Uh , everything. I mean, I , I filled, I've filled personally all sorts of roles and I'm just working part-time in it . I know our team has just filled a lot of different ones as well. Um, there's really, you know, because as I said, I mentioned prior, prior to being a recruiter and working for the recruits as a nonprofit , um, I was in advertising for a long time, but mainly focused on, you know, my own kind of creative strategy, social strategy, digital strategy type , uh , fields have been really interesting to see all these different , um, all these different job descriptions from various companies. And sometimes from the same company, like getting very different ones depending on the team. Um, and learning a little bit more about all these like kind of niche skills , uh, that companies looking for. I think one thing that's that I can say is that company , these companies love , um, these like really like interesting niche skills , um, and you know, kind of extracurricular type activities. Um, I think portfolios are always super important. Uh , if people have the opportunity to take , um, little classes or courses , um, to, to get new certifications or different skill sets . So I think that's something that's always huge, cuz you never know when a project might come through that needs, you know, that they're 99% fit for, but because they don't have one thing, they might not be eligible. Um, I think, yeah, updating your portfolio, having a great portfolio is huge. I , I think for me, like, because I've been in the industry so long, I could look at somebody's LinkedIn and kind of make a Snapchat , um , on, based on their, you know, the agencies that they've worked at and the clients they've worked on, I could say, oh yeah, this person has it because I don't even need to look at their portfolio because I know that that agency probably already thoroughly vetted them with, you know, multiple in-person interviews and they worked there for four years. I don't need, I don't need to do the work that's already been done. Right. Um, our clients don't necessarily have that background. So , um, yeah. Having, having a slick , slick looking portfolio , um, website and you know, having great examples of your work there is definitely important. But yeah, I , I don't think there's any kind of limit to, to what I, what I've seen or what I will see because you know , we're to Rosie is definitely growing and we're gonna continue to get , uh, lots of new opportunities for creatives. Wonderful. And everyone else creative .

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's right. Well, you know, I think it's , uh , Stephanie Olson who started it, she was a media. Um , she was in media, wasn't she, before she started this, it always occurred to me that, or I always thought that we are, Rosie was more of a media platform or media buyers and playing , but you know, in addition to the creatives ,

Speaker 3:

Um, I know at least I, I, I have , I have Stephanie filed in my head as having works advertising. I believe it was in media, but I'm, I'm not a hundred percent . Maybe

Speaker 2:

I've got that completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time .

Speaker 3:

No, it's, it's, it's fine. Uh , I do know that she's an, an awesome leader for a company and , you know, you a being a founder woman, founder , um, she's bootstrapped the whole thing. It's, it's really awesome to see, you know, even in the six months or so, I've been, I've been on as a creative recruiter and then, you know, the previous six months when I was working as , um , as kind of an editor with them , um, just to see how much the company has grown, not just in personnel and talent , um, but also, you know, the technology we're using and the , the tools we're using on the inside. Um, but yeah, I mean to , just to answer that last part, we're , we're definitely placing a lot of media people. In fact, that's probably the, in my opinion, the , just about the hottest part of our company is placing media talent. Um, especially in that industry, I think there is even more, even more than like creative agencies and tech companies, a aid earth of talent available. So if you're listening to this and you're a media person and, and you're thinking your job is not that great, and you're thinking about freelancing, please come join our community because <laugh> , we will we get you to work within a week or two. Wow.

Speaker 2:

Wow. So, okay . That's a great way to wrap it up. Joe, if anybody wants to find out about clean creatives or we are Rosie , where do they go?

Speaker 3:

Uh, well for either, yeah, I would just go to our dot coms. Uh , you can also find us on Twitter or Instagram , uh , or what have you for clean creatives. Uh , I'm definitely one of the people that'll answer the DM, so feel free to feel free to DM us. Uh , we're usually pretty good about responding. Uh , we Rosie , I'm not on the social team there, but I know that they're , um, they're super on top of things and they're putting out great stuff. So , um, feel free to DM them with a specific question or just add us, hopefully somebody will get back to you on either side, but , uh, yeah, we have lots, lots of different , uh , ways to get in , in touch with either of us. So

Speaker 2:

Terrific. Terrific, Joe, thank you for your time. Uh, it was a pleasure to talk to you and it sounds like you are on the forefront of a couple of really , uh, unique organizations that are certainly changing things up in the industry. It's uh , it's, it's interesting to watch.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much. Yeah, it's really, it's really awesome to be part of , uh , these two movements that and companies that are, I think, well, movements would probably be the better word that are, I , I think helping to make our industry better and you know, in doing so the world a better place.

Speaker 2:

Great. Thank you, friends and colleagues. This has been ad chatter from ad pulp.com. I'm Dan gold. Geier we wish a good holiday season at , and we'll be back soon with more great people and great ad chatter

Speaker 4:

Engineered by Dan gold in Seattle , Washington .