Fairness Means Meeting Real Needs So Everyone Can Succeed

Fairness sounds simple until you’re staring down a sibling standoff or a classroom calling “unfair!” We dive into what fairness really means—equal care, tailored supports—and how this shift from sameness to equity transforms homes and schools. With clinical child psychologist and parenting coach Dr. Peter Montminy, we explore the brain science behind why unfair hits so hard, and we share tools that help kids and adults move from hot reactions to wise choices.

We start by redefining fairness as giving people what they need to succeed, not identical treatment. That reframe matters because when kids feel slighted, their nervous system fires up with threat signals. Dr. Montminy walks us through a practical pause-name-reframe process that cools the moment and opens space for problem-solving. From there, we zoom out to culture: how teachers can set norms that honor different strengths and struggles, normalize flexible supports—front-row seats, headphones, cue cards, extra time—and keep expectations like kindness and effort steady for everyone.

At home, the stakes are tender. We talk about loving children equally while parenting them differently, using simple, steady language that builds trust: I love you the same, and I’ll support you in ways that help you grow. We map out how to keep values consistent and vary the scaffolding, and how to respond when kids keep score. Then we go a level deeper—teaching resilience and good sportsmanship when things don’t go your way, and inviting siblings to shift from rivalry to teamwork by being part of the solution.

We wrap with a clear three-step framework you can use anywhere: pause and reality-check your care and commitment; communicate expectations and tailored supports plainly; and practice equity over equality to create equal opportunity, not identical inputs. If you’re ready to trade scorekeeping for growth and build a culture where every kid can see over the fence, this conversation will give you language, mindset, and moves you can use today. Subscribe, share with a friend, and tell us the first small change you’ll try this week.

If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 for immediate support. 

This podcast is brought to you by Jana Marie Foundation and A Mindful Village. 

Jana Marie Foundation is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization located in State College, Pennsylvania which harnesses the power of creative expression and dialogue to spark conversations build connections, and promote mental health and wellbeing among young people and their communities. Learn more at Jana Marie Foundation.

A Mindful Village is Dr. Peter Montminy's private consulting practice dedicated to improving the mental health of kids and their caregivers. Learn more at A Mindful Village | Holistic Mental Health Care for Kids.

Music created by Ken Baxter. 

(c) 2025. Jana Marie Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

This podcast was developed in part under a grant number SM090046 from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). The views, policies, and opinions expressed are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect those of SAMHSA, HHS or the Pennsylvania Department of Human Services.

Transcript

Welcome & Today’s Focus: Fairness

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 0:17

Welcome back to Ripples of Resilience, a podcast by Jana Marie Foundation, where we talk about the small intentional moments that create lasting waves of connection, confidence, and hope for children and teens. I'm your host, Marisa Vicere. Today we're talking about a value that shows up everywhere, from playgrounds and classrooms to workplaces and communities. Fairness. Fairness can sound simple, but when you really look at it, it's layered. It's about roles, empathy, perspective, and sometimes having the courage to speak up or slow down. I'm excited to explore this topic with our resident expert, Dr. Peter Montminy, a clinical child psychologist and parenting coach from A Mindful Village. Peter, welcome.

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 1:05

Thanks, Marisa. Really glad to be here. Fairness is one of those ideas that everyone thinks they understand until they're faced with a situation where what seems fair to them is maybe different from someone else, or it's getting unclear or uncomfortable for them. So yeah, we're gonna play with this today. Okay.

Defining Fairness vs Sameness

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 1:23

Thank you, and thanks so much for being here. So let's get started there. When you think about fairness, how do you define it?

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 1:31

I think of fairness as making sure that people get what they need to succeed, not necessarily the same thing as everyone else. That's the key. That fairness isn't always about equal in the sense of everything being exactly the same. I can care about you equally and give you the uh, you know, the same amount of caring and and commitment to wanting you to be successful. But how I meet that need or meet your need and support you in being successful is going to look differently. The very simplest example I give with every family and classroom I work with is, you know, how many kids in your family wear eyeglasses, right? Maybe one or two out of, you know, a family of four, let's say, people in the family wear eyeglasses. Does that mean we make everyone in the family wear eyeglasses? No. Who wears eyeglasses? The people who need them to see the board on the wall or to see the writing up close will make sure I equally care about you. So if your brother needs eyeglasses to see better, I'm gonna get him eyeglasses, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna get you all eyeglasses so you can feel like it's equal or this or fair, right? Same with kids in the classroom, they have different needs, we'll talk more about it. But that simple example is what I mean by equally meeting people where they are, caring enough to set them up for success. But the specifics of what that looks like, of course, is gonna be different.

Why Unfair Feels Threatening

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 2:58

That's such an important distinction, especially for kids and honestly adults too. Fair doesn't always mean same, it means thoughtful. So let's talk about the emotions that come into play. Fairness often comes with big feelings: anger, frustration, disappointment. Why do you think fairness hits us so emotionally?

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 3:21

Yeah, fairness is tied to a sense of belonging and safety. When something feels unfair, our brain reads it as a threat. Something's out of kilter or off from our sense of the way it should be. And we start that can spiral into I'm not being seen or I don't matter here. And we start imbuing those differences with these whole extra kind of sense of personally not enough or not mattering enough. And then the emotional response starts spinning out, and that's really in some way our nervous system trying to protect us, but it can start spinning off the rails.

Pause, Name It, Reframe It

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 3:58

Thank you. It's our brain sending us messages or signals, which brings us back to so many points we have focused on over the past few months, including that power of pause that we sometimes need to take or even naming it to tame it for those different thoughts.

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 4:13

Yeah, absolutely. So, of course, when we teach kids and ourselves to pause and name that feeling, I'm feeling that's unfair. I'm feeling that's that's not right, or it's not the way I want it to be. Now, notice what I just did there. Noticing that I think something's unfair and that it doesn't feel right, which really ultimately may mean it doesn't, it's not the way I think it should be or the way I want it to be. So when we can crosswalk kids to pause and reframe that knee-jerk reaction, unfair, unfair, to wait a minute, it's not the way you would like it to be or the way you think it should be. Fair enough, let's take a look at that. But that immediately opens the space for someone else may have a different viewpoint. And it doesn't mean you're necessarily right or being slighted or that it is unfair. It means you're feeling that right now, but it doesn't mean it's necessarily true. And that opens up once we pause, breathe, and allow a little bit of uh reflecting and reframing that, it'll opens up space for problem solving instead of just reacting.

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 5:22

So let's take a look at fairness in everyday life situations. Think about a classroom where one student needs extra time or support. At first glance, that might look unfair to others, but fairness means recognizing different needs and adjusting accordingly so everyone has a real chance to succeed. As teachers, that can feel complicated and even messy. So, Peter, how can educators manage this in a way that supports everyone?

Flexible Supports, Imperfectly Applied

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 5:52

Yeah, so again, I like to zoom out before zooming back in, as you know I'm fond of saying. So we want to zoom out, and I believe it's vital to create at the very beginning of the year or multiple times throughout the year, a classroom culture around this basic concept of everyone has strengths and struggles, true or false. And everyone's strengths and struggles might be different, true or false. And when we start from that perspective, we're gonna start to normalize the idea that different people, different kiddos in the classroom might need different sites types of supports for their different struggles. And we really want to bring that ethos, that cultural view, I think, to bear. And when we start there at the very beginning about how people learn differently, some need more time, some maybe need movement, some need more quiet, that all of it is is normal or acceptable, and we're gonna work together to support everyone getting their needs met as best we can, as fairly and equally as possible, but that will look different, not the same, right? So we start with that general sense, and then that leads into specifying again this idea of that equal means everyone getting the same thing. No, it means everyone getting what they need as equally as we can possibly do it. And by the way, that's going to be imperfect too. So it's also a matter of kind of accepting that. When students understand this notion, this essential difference, the difference between, you know, fair being meeting your needs as best we can versus everything looks exactly equal or the same, they start to you know feel less tense about it and hopefully can be more helpful about it. Sometimes you need eyeglasses, like I said, sometimes you don't. Sometimes some kids need to sit in the front, some don't. Headphones, behavior charts, reminder cue cards. We build the idea that our strategies can be flexible in the classroom for everyone to get their needs met as fairly as possible. And let me keep saying imperfectly, and then let's accept that it'll be imperfect.

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 8:06

Yeah, perfectly imperfect.

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 8:08

Yes.

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 8:09

So all of that is such important information. We're helping to build confidence and creating a culture where fairness is part of the structure, not a special exception, which just makes it part of what it is day to day. Let's bring this closer to home. Parenting often brings up fairness in a really personal way. Let's say I have two kids with very different needs. How do I parent in a way that recognizes those differences while also making sure both kids know I love them equally and that I'm not holding double standards?

Parenting With Equity And Love

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 8:44

Yeah. It's similar to in the classroom, but I think it's different in that there's such a primal sense of we want to love our children equally. We want our children to know that we love them all equally, that we have the same amount of love and commitment to them being successful, to meeting their needs as best we can. And so it's really just more personal and emotionally, as you said, kind of ratchets up a little bit. And kids know to play that card. You know, the unfair thing often is followed up with what? You don't love me as much as my sister, you know, you know. And so we have to kind of first check ourselves and pause, breathe. We can love all our children equally. But sometimes we're gonna like certain things about one more than another, and vice versa. We like different things and don't like things about different family members. Our kids may love both their mom and dad and like some things about mom more and like some things about dad more or less. So again, we want to start to normalize that we're gonna have these differences. But the difference isn't in how much you're loved, the difference is in how we're gonna take care of you and meet your needs to get what you need to be successful. So, again, the idea that loving your kids equally does not mean parenting them identically. The love remains constant, but the strategies for supporting them can be flexible, needs to be flexible.

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 10:10

Absolutely. And that distinction feels really grounding. Love stays the same even when the approach changes.

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 10:18

Absolutely.

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 10:19

So one child might need more structure while another needs a little more freedom, or one might need reassurance while another might need more space. And so my understanding is from what you shared, meeting those different needs isn't about favoritism, it's about responsiveness. Is that correct?

Expectations Stay, Supports Shift

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 10:38

Yeah, absolutely. And being clear about this, transparent about this is really important. We want to name this truth in simple, calm, direct language. I love you both the same, I support you in ways that help you grow, and that will look differently at different points in times. When kids hear that message consistently, it starts to build more trust. It's also important to check our standards or expectations versus our supports. Our expectations like kindness, honesty, or effort, can be consistent for each of our children. The values are the same, but the supports like how to meet bedtime routines or or help you with certain emotional difficulties or your homework routines, what type of help you may get is in different parts of the day is going to vary by what you need. So we want to keep this in mind as well. Expectations can be the same. How we support you in meeting those expectations can vary.

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 11:37

I think that's such a helpful framework. You know, as a family, we often have those values that we really cherish and that we work to instill in our kids. And so if we can keep those consistent, but then use different tools, different strategies to really meet our kids with where they're at, that can help all of them really grow and thrive within our structure.

Teaching Resilience And Good Sportsmanship

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 11:58

Yeah, absolutely. When kids feel heard, they're more open to understanding that fairness doesn't mean, again, exact sameness. Over time, they actually this can actually strengthen sibling relationships. And there's a couple things I want to add to that, how we can do that as well. And the one is to be helping kids understand that while they may think and feel that it's unfair, that's a real feeling they have. It doesn't mean it's true. It doesn't mean that it is unfair. And we keep coming back to what we're repeating about, you know, differences in supports. But we're also at the same time then teaching kids, and so how can they take care of that thought or feeling that they have that isn't true or helpful right now and getting in the way? And related to that is really teaching them hardiness or resilience more directly. Things aren't always gonna go the way you want them to, simply put. And it doesn't mean it's unfair. It means sometimes things don't go the way you want it to. And your job now is how are you gonna take care of yourself to get through that? Basically, it's a way of teaching good sportsmanship. It's teaching kids, hey, things don't always go the way you want it to. A referee may make a call in a game that you think's unfair, pause, breathe, what are you gonna do about it? You know? A parent or a teacher may do one thing for one kid and another for another, and you may not like it. What are you gonna do about it? How are you gonna be a good sport? So we want to build that in too and not feel so held hostage as parents to this idea of everything has to be the same. Just because the kids are squawking about keeping score doesn't mean we have to kind of give in to that unhealthy and unhelpful way of always looking at the world so brittly, so fragily. Yeah, I understand you're feeling away, and it's not true. I love you both the same. Your brother needed this help right now, you need different help another time. Take a deep breath, take care of yourself, let's move on and be a good sport about it. Oh, and by the way, last extra point here.

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 13:53

Yeah.

From Siblings To Teammates

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 13:54

When your brother is having trouble with that, you can be part of the solution too. You can actually maybe recognize, hey, I needed help here, and I appreciate it when my brother or sister supported me this way. When my brother or sister is melting down or having trouble with this or that, maybe that I can actually step up and not only be a good sport about I feel like I'm not getting what I want, but maybe I can actually be a good teammate, a good family member, and be part of the solution and offer additional supports to my sibling when they're struggling as well. And so now we're creating the culture of generosity and caring amongst all of us across our differences. Does that make sense?

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 14:35

It absolutely does. And that's really how we create those ripples of change. And so when fairness is modeled at home, kids learn about empathy. They learn about that self-awareness and trust. And those are all such important lessons that they can then carry from the home to the school, to the community, or anywhere else that they go. So as we start to wrap up, if someone wants to be more fair, they're listening and they were like, you know, I want to take some tips with me. So whether it's in their decisions, their reactions, their relationships, where do they start?

Three Steps To Practice Fairness

Dr. Peter Montminy, A Mindful Village 15:10

Yeah. Let's go always starting with the pause. Pause, breathe. Let me get a reality check on this. Am I being fair in my caring? Am I being committed to the kids? And am I recognizing that may be different, whether it's in my living room or in my classroom? And am I communicating that? Step two is am I communicating that clearly to the other kids in the room so we can all have a bigger mindset about this little narrow me versus you thing? And part of that bigger mindset is helping the kids to look at, as well as all of us, to look at what perspective is missing here? Why is that kid feeling slighted? Why are they feeling not included? Why are they feeling not enough? And A, what can we do to kind of help support them feeling more included? Or B, how can we help them again cope with the fact that it's not always going to go the way you want it to? And we need to take care of ourselves and move on. So not being held hostage to scorekeeping all the time. And then three, remembering the difference between equality and equity, where you know, we don't want to get sucked into everything has to be equal, everyone gets the same. No, right? Equity is more about we want to provide supports to give people equal opportunities to step up and do what they can. And that may look different. The famous kind of example, right? Are uh two kids, teens, let's say a six-foot kid and a four-foot kid standing at a fence and they want to look over the fence into the ballpark. We don't provide them all the same two-foot box to get to look up over it. The taller kid needs a smaller box or no box at all, and the shorter kid needs a bigger box, so we go find another box that the shorter kid can stand on so they can both look over the fence. And it doesn't mean the bigger kid got short sheeted because he didn't get a box to stand on, right? We go, so we look for practical ways to try to help us see what's the common sense thing here, and then again, not hold this whole thing too preciously that we're held hostage to it and paralyzed by kids shouting unfair. Yeah, I understand you feel that way. Not true. Here's what we're doing to take care of you guys in different ways. How are you going to take care of yourself? Let's move on.

Closing Reflections & Listener Challenge

Marisa Vicere, President and Founder, Jana Marie Foundation 17:27

Yeah. Thank you so much. Those three steps are incredibly practical. So, Dr. Montminy, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today. This conversation really highlights how fairness is something we practice, not something we perfect. To our listeners this week, notice moments when fairness shows up or when it feels like it's missing. As yourself, what's one small action you can take to make this feel more fair? Until next time, I'm your host, Marisa Vicere. This podcast is brought to you by Jana Marie Foundation, where we're dedicated to opening minds and saving lives through conversations that matter, and by A Mindful Village, where Dr. Peter Montminy provides holistic mental health care for kids and their caregivers. If today's episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a ripple. Together, let's keep showing up, speaking up, and supporting the young minds who need us most. Remember, even the smallest actions can create waves of change.