The Highway of Death

They call it a serial killer's graveyard. 

A lonely stretch of rural highway in Connecticut, where half a dozen women and a man were murdered and their bodies dumped. 

It was a yesteryear story. A nightmare hanging over from the 1990s:  unsolved, unresolved, and the killer still uncaught. 

Until three years ago, when the same thing happened, a young woman's body was discovered in exactly the same place...

Please subscribe, rate, review or like this episode of CrimeWaves at YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.  
For more information on CrimeWaves please see - 
www.crimewavespodcast.com
www.declanhill.com
Twitter: declan_hill

Transcript

Elizabeth Scalzo: [00:00:00] This location is very beautiful. The scenery is absolutely gorgeous, especially in the fall time. However, there is a sense of, there is a sense of despair, of brokenheartedness, of feeling the heavy weight of knowing people lost their lives here. Innocent women lost their lives here. There is a feeling of death.  

Declan Hill: They call it the highway of death. 

It's a lonely stretch of road in western Connecticut, where half a dozen young women and a man have been murdered and their bodies dumped. It was a yesteryear story, a nightmare hanging over from the 19 eighties and nineties, unsolved, unresolved and the killer still uncaught. Until three years ago, when the same thing happened, a young woman's body was discovered in exactly the same area. 

Welcome to [00:01:00] CrimeWaves. 

What's it like when you get the call about a potential homicide, a body's been found, something like that. What goes through your mind and your heart at those moments?  

Tim Palmbach: I think it's more cerebral than heart based to be quite honest with you, um, offensive middle of the night. So you're trying to wake up enough to drive safely. 

And then there's really just technicalities that are in play. You know, you know, we asked [00:02:00] the infamous questions, you know, is the scene secured? Are you sure? Um, is anybody surviving that, you know, going to hospital so we could get detectives there, maybe get, you know, dying declarations or statements and then, you know, we have to determine whether we need a legal process. 

Is this, um, in an open public domain where there's no 4th amendment rights protection or is it in a home? Right? So you're in their current ledger. They still have a protection right now. If we find a body in a state forest or a public park. Fair game. Like we, we don't, nobody's got to claim a privacy there. 

Um, but, but we are always, these are always questions we're asking and, and there's time intervals, right? So, Let's say we, we think we do need a search warrant. It may be, um, a four or five hour process by the time we get it all done and signed by the judge. And so now we're thinking, okay, is it an outdoor scene? 

Do we have bad weather coming? Do we have to try to protect the scene? You know, um, worry about the decomposing body time of death issues. So these are all, so you start just [00:03:00] clinically or mechanically thinking about what do we need to know? What the, what do I need to make sure we're doing with the minimum amount of information I currently have. 

So we've, we've reduced the chance of mistakes early on. 

Declan Hill:  

Yeah, because I remember you and I did a podcast a couple of years ago called Murder in Our Town about a murder up in Salisbury Connecticut, where you guys arrived on the crime scene and bang from nowhere comes a rainstorm and just wipes out all the physical evidence on the crime scene. 

Tim Palmbach: Yeah, it was a dunce, the dunce case. And, um, that was a very important murder. And we lost a ton of evidence because of monsoon. It wasn't small rain. Um, there was nothing we could do about it. So yeah, that's and you worry about that. You really do worry about that.  

Declan Hill: So your mind takes over and I'm sure you must receive training, um, or, or some, you know, You know, so that your heart doesn't kick in. 

Oh, my gosh. I mean, mine certainly would as an untrained person. If somebody phoned me at two o'clock in the morning said, Okay, you go investigate this potential murder, [00:04:00] but yours doesn't most of the time. It's clicking into the mental This is what we got to do. This is what we got to know. 

Tim Palmbach: You know, it really could depend. 

I mean, you could be, you know, in an inner city, you know, you know, we had a crime scene, which involved, um, believe it or not, a 14-year-old kid with a submachine gun and he and his friends had jacked cars and did violent robberies for a period of a couple of months down in the Bridgeport area. Um, and on this particular night, you know, there was patrol cars near enough now that they, they engaged him, uh, had no idea he was 14 and, and, you know, chase him in the back alleyway. 

He jumped, um, you know, over a fence. They jumped with them. They saw the submachine gun. He dropped it, picked it up, aimed at the officer, he shot and killed him. Um, and he would have been certainly dead if he hadn't done that. But interestingly enough, we just showed up the scene and it's in, you know, a really condensed area in Bridgeport and we're like, this is going to be really hard to secure. 

And it, and it just happened at the 10 [00:05:00] o'clock news was coming on. And one of the local news stations went there and they got a clip from somebody in the neighborhood. And they said that, um, uh, we saw the police execute this kid. With that, the entire neighborhood erupted. They started, uh, rioting. They started dumping over our, our, our police cars. 

And, and we literally had to grab the body and run for our lives. It was, there was almost nothing else that we could do. So. 

Declan Hill: So those are, but those are the extreme ones. One is a case where the rain wipes out your crimes. And another one is where the neighborhood, because of, you know, misinformation or whatever it's called these days. 

Um, you know, riots and turns it into a war zone. In the particular cases that Elizabeth and I have been looking at over the last few months, it's a lonely, deserted country laneway. Um, is this a moment where your emotions take over or you just like, Hey mate, I, you know, I don't have time for emotions at this point. 

I'm a crime scene [00:06:00] investigator.  

Tim Palmbach: Yeah. I mean, maybe, maybe we're overly callous and I think early on. Maybe you're more emotional. Um, unfortunately probably get a bit hardened, you know, really get tied in any emotions unless it's a child. Like for me, a child always from moment one, like those are tough cases, right? 

They always really bothering me. Of course. Um, other than that, it's usually when, you know, when it gets tough is the days and weeks, um, that follow it. Now you start talking to the family members and interviewing them. And in the cases we're going to be talking about here, we did, and they were. Lovely people, you know, who were heartbroken over, you know, troubles that their, their daughters who had been having, and now we're violently killed. 

Um, so yeah, so eventually, yes, you do hit it, but  

Declan Hill: not as you're walking into a crime scene. 

Tim Palmbach: No 

Declan Hill: You are listening to a special edition of CrimeWaves about the highway of death. It's a small stretch of the route eight in Western Connecticut where half a dozen bodies were dumped. After [00:07:00] being killed by a serial murderer. 

This episode is researched and produced by my student, Elizabeth Scalzo, and features Tim Palmbach, a former leader of the Connecticut State Police, Major Crimes Unit, and a professor of forensic science here at the University of New Haven. If you find this episode interesting, please subscribe, podcast platform you follow. 

It's massively important for our program. Now, back to the episode.  

What's the first thing or one of the first things that you do when you when you approach a potential scene that there could be a crime where there's a body there? 

Tim Palmbach: Let's let's look at that again. You want to talk about this isolated area in, um, in the western part of Connecticut, um, off the route 8. 

Uh, so it's gonna be easy to secure that scene. There's just not a lot of anybody around, right? And, and, you know, limited roads and, and, and access. So it's pretty easy to [00:08:00] kind of isolate it, isolate you. Um, you know, you have plenty of time. So this is, that's all like a plus, like, okay, right. We can slow down. 

There's a lot of things that normally could go bad. We don't have to worry about going bad here. Um, and we're going to have time now. The flip side of that is, um, okay, there is nothing around. So, you know, the, you know, that the modern world now is a second of crime happens, everybody runs for CCT cameras. 

Where's the nearest camera, right? Well, there, there isn't anything out there. Um, also from a crime scene perspective, it is pitch black. It is wildly dark and you're going to need as much auxiliary lighting as you can possibly get. Um, and like I said, in a case like that, we'll do what we have to do in the dark. 

You’ll usually be focusing on the body and the evidence around the body. Making a removal and then we'll buy some time away for sunlight to help us out because working in the dark is hard. But those become, you know, the instant challenge is just that the remote nature is a plus, um, it's also a challenge. 

And it [00:09:00] also begins. Everybody's mind is like, Is this likely just a dump site? You know, somebody just did what they did somewhere else. And we got a body dump here. Um, and particularly in the cases we'll talk about where we started having more than one body in the area became more and more concerned that that's exactly what it was. 

Now, you also don't know that that's true. They could easily be taking people there voluntarily, by force, um, by drugging, whatever, and, and, and all the activity could be happening there as well. So you have to be open minded that it can be both a primary crime scene, as well as a secondary.  

Declan Hill: Tim, you are not only and are not only an academic, not only, um, active against human trafficking. 

We've spoken about that, but you're also a police officer, but also a homicide detective, a major crimes thing. And I always have a sense, you know, when I'm reading a murder mystery or I'm looking at one of these TV programs, you have the regular cops and then you have the elite guys like you or the, you know, the, the detectives.[00:10:00]  

Let's assume for this question that I'm, um, A completely untrained regular cop. What is the number one thing that you would tell that cop in terms of what the crime scene is? 

Tim Palmbach: Role is very important, and I think they underestimate their role. I mean, they are the first set of eyes trained eyes on that scene and and and. 

So it's so important that however, they can absorb that or record that information. You know, we're not asking them to walk through the whole crime scene to take photographs and sketches, but they have a camera start taking a couple before you ever walk it, you know, whatever you can do, um, and then be as careful as you can to think about, you know, in the case of a body. 

He,  he  has a job. She has a job to go make sure that nobody needs medical attention. And that's going to trump. We got that once you realize that's not the case, then they can. They should take a big step back and try to avoid any, um, [00:11:00] any potential for damage of the evidence. But also, it's just kind of like a look around who's there. 

You know, did I, did I pass a car or a truck coming into the scene, um, you know, it's those initial observations that are so important and they're the best person to, to be aware of them. And now the question is, will they, did they remember it and will they record it? Will they, will, will we ever know about that? 

Yeah.  

Declan Hill: Yes. 

…………. 

Declan Hill: Um, the geography of this particular set of murders is particularly eerie. It's a, it's a highway here in Connecticut where over years, over decades. A number of bodies were, uh, found in this area. What role did geography play in this case?  

Tim Palmbach: It's really, really important. Um, and you [00:12:00] had two sets of geography, right? 

So for, you know, and by the way, you know, there's, there were multiple victims in this area and they, and there were some differences between them. Um, you know, one even being male, but there were several that were female and they, and they were residents of the city of Waterbury. Which was about, I don't know, 40 minutes, half hour, maybe a half hour south of there, um, in the, in the area where it was very rural, just north of there. 

So, um, you had two geographic considerations. Where did these victims come from? Right? And they're all coming from the city of Waterbury. Um, and with a little bit of back, you know, victimology, victim background, you find out that many of them, right, were from even a fairly discreet area of the city. Many of them, um, had history, um, of, of, uh, Of drug arrest and or prostitution or association in those in those communities. 

Um, so that's 1 set of geography. Now, in this case, the other weird part is. Why are you up in the middle of absolutely nowhere?  

Declan Hill: Yeah.  

Tim Palmbach: Um, [00:13:00] a half hour away in a very rural community. And you might jump the illogic because nobody can, nobody can, um, you know, will see you there. Well, yes and no, nobody will see, you know, there's not going to be a CCT camera catching you there, but, but if you're the only car on the road, which could be the case, then anything that could happen, you know, You might stand out or just think about the local trooper, the local resident trooper in the area going through those areas is gonna be very aware of any particular car moving in the mid hours of the night. 

So he may target you very quickly. So it's, you know, and then quite honestly, people are are going to be very, they're going to be very uncomfortable being a, you know, in, if they, let's say they picked up a girl in, in, in the city and, and for them, then the drive out to the middle of nowhere, you know, one of the geographic first clues is they must be familiar with that area. 

You know, this wasn't just a shot in the dark. Well, you know, they went [00:14:00] there for some particular reason, and that gets a very, it gets very hard as what that reason could be.  

Declan Hill: My understanding was that the rest stop nearby had been used as a kind of, um, I'm searching for the right word. I'll say sexual playground, both either professional or amateur. 

So there was some, there was some knowledge of that location as, as being used. Uh, a site of recreational sex anyway.  

Tim Palmbach: True, but different because what, what, uh, all the recreational sex sex that was, became, you know, aware of, of police and had police intervention over the years, uh, was, um, it was all homosexual base, right? 

It was, it was guys paying for hooking up with other guys, um, you know, and maybe not always paying for it, but that, that was the activity that, that was kind of notorious over many, many years, uh, in that general area. Now, these. Most of these girls weren't found in [00:15:00] that, you know, pulled over part of the rest area, which is now, by the way, closed down. 

Um, but, you know, as a crow flies, you're like, just, you know, heading, heading east, you know, through the woods, kind of, as it were, um, into a very wooded area. So, you know, If somebody had gone past the rest area and got off at the next exit off the highway and then kind of loop back around behind, um, this wooded area where that, you know, adjacent to the highway and the rest area, that's where they were found. 

So they geographically were very close. Although somewhat different locations. And, um, but again, I think geographically the important distinction is where they actually were. Most of those bodies were found was actually even far more review removed. You know, it wasn't necessarily an easy place to know about or find, which again, heightened our, our, our curiosity or focal point that it has to be somebody, you know, um, there was a local hunting club in the area. 

So that was a consideration who are the members. Um, there are a few houses in the area. So it was like. It was somebody's grandmother live on the [00:16:00] road. I mean, uh, so you begin looking at anything that could connect a person to going to it, such of a remote area that it wouldn't seem like it was accidental. 

…… 

Declan Hill: Are those sites common? 

Tim Palmbach: They're not uncommon. Um, I know they're like, and I'll give you an example. Um, many of the homicides I worked on were also bodies that were literally thrown out of a car along the Merritt Parkway. Um, in Fairfield County in Connecticut, right over from the New York line, and several of them were victims that identified came out of New York City. 

Um, so there was somebody, you know, did whatever they did, had the body in the trunk of the car, wherever they did. And as soon as they could get to a somewhat remote place, which, if you were driving on the Merritt Parkway, route 15, and you got into Connecticut. It became very, it looked pretty remote and they, so they would just boom, [00:17:00] you know, get rid of the body there. 

Um, sometimes they let them on fire, um, put them in tires, but there were many. So it's not uncommon for bodies to be disposed of, um, off of major highways or routes when the person doing it feels like there's a little bit of, uh, solitude or a less of a chance of being seen.  

Declan Hill: But this one seems, and there have been others, um, the student here, uh, today who's producing this, Elizabeth, um, and I went through a number of cases and it just seems odd that the murderer, the killer, would keep returning to the same place. 

Surely there's, You know, you murder somebody and then you dump them there, you know, the very last place you want to do is return it with the second one and the third one, because the risk now is being heightened. Um, but we found many cases like that, you know, remote areas, but people will return. Do you have any sense of why somebody would do this? 

Is this a token? [00:18:00]  

Tim Palmbach: And I agree with you, but they do it and we're not, you know, I'm not sure what the logic is, why they go back there is gotta be something symbolic. There's some, there's some reason for that. The other potential is, and we certainly consider it. You have to consider is you got to copycat. 

Because it's publicly known it gets out in the press where a body was found. I mean, nobody hides that. 

 Declan Hill:Yes.  

Tim Palmbach: Um, the identity of the victim is publicly known that that's out there and you know where they came from. So that was all public information. And so anybody could have known that. And they may just said, hey, I can maybe get a freebie here. I can ask somebody to mix it in here and hopefully not get caught. So you're always worried about that as well when you have multiple, multiple victims over a period of time and and You've had publicity about those locations. It's like is somebody copycatting me?  

Declan Hill: Yeah, because we did we again we spent uh, Considerable time looking at contemporary serial killers at that time. 

Now, there's obviously been a body dumped in that area I think two and a half, three years ago. [00:19:00] So there's a certain freshness about this. Freshness is the wrong word, but, but, but current, um, issue going on, but we were looking, um, in New Bedford, Massachusetts around that time, there was also a serial killer. 

Uh, killing sex workers in that area. Um, there was somebody, uh, in the Green River, uh, out in the west of the United States. Again, same modus operandi. We were trying to figure out, was there any linkage between the people who were convicted of that case and maybe these early cases in the 80s and 90s and then what we had later was a copycat. 

How do you do that when you're working an investigation? Are you looking around? Is there a database? What do you do?  

Tim Palmbach: So, I mean, yeah, there are databases like VICAP would be one of them. Um, and they're far more robust now than they were in back in the days when I was working these cases. Also, in addition to everything you [00:20:00] mentioned, those absolutely were serial killer events. 

There was a lot in Connecticut in the 80s and 90s. It was frightening. You had Michael Ross down in the southeast part of the state. Eventually, he was identified and convicted for killing many young girls and they mostly were just young girls from the community. Um, we had in Hartford two serial killers working in the, in the 90 area. 

Um, and they both led the identification and arrest of individuals. 1 was a gentleman named Matthew Johnson, um, who was in Connecticut for a period of time that did the killings and then moved on and eventually, um, really challenging forensic case DNA case, really challenging because we have thousands and thousands of samples that were all co contaminated. 

One of the problems if you actually have a victim that's a sex worker is you could have, um, you have everything's a mixture of course. And so when you get mixture samples, you can't just go throw it up in the codeus database and get a good clean answer. It gets really complex.  

Declan Hill: Right.  

Tim Palmbach: Um, and [00:21:00] so eventually we did identify Matthew Johnson there and he was convicted. 

Declan Hill: Good man. Good work.  

And they were all girls that were basically walking the streets, working the streets, working the bars, and he picked him up and he killed him, you know, in in little remote locations within the city of Hartford. So, the short answer is there's lots of activity going on in this little tiny area of Connecticut in that area. 

So. Um, you really, you just couldn't logically say this is one guy just going crazy. It didn't it actually proved in many cases it wasn't that, um, you know, so I think what we what we've been able to establish for these kinds of cases in the area is a logical kind of patterning, right? You go back to Michael Ross. 

He was in that area. Right. He, he targets certain girls, um, these Hartford cases, they were in parts of the city. I bet, you know, engaging with girls in that area. And so for not all, but many of the victims in the, in the route 8 case [00:22:00] coming out of this little area, you know, or, or segment of a Waterbury, the expectation was, was, you know, that's where the interaction begins. 

That's. The familiarity. That's where our suspect is engaging them, right? 

……. 

Declan Hill: Moving on to the psychology of these sick, uh, individuals. Particularly in relation to the green river killer, you know, highway eight, it's right beside a river. I was wondering if there was some kind of connection, you know, with the vagina, because it was a valley, it was wet. It was, you know, covered in trees and stuff. 

There was some weird psychological deficiency in these serial killers minds on on like that. Let me. Ask you. And again, this is a psychological question. You're an investigator. That's not your field. But again, we were going through the cases right back to Jack the [00:23:00] Ripper in London in the 1890s, where these sick serial killers are killing sex workers. 

Any sense of why they target these women?  

Tim Palmbach: Um, So this is, I'm going to answer your question is sound like I'm not going to, um, and if you, if you, some of my colleagues who may hear this, you know, the first thing in their mind and say, well, I'm back. Not no freaking way. Palmbach you hate profilers.  

Declan Hill: Right.  

Tim Palmbach: And I'm going to be like. I don't hate them. Um, we've had, we've come to a disagreement on many occasion, but, but, but I think there's very good reason why my job, right? And I, and, and, and more of it is focused on the, the crime scene evidence. And it is the investigators say about done both. Right? But so when I say my job, I'm talking more about the. 

The science side of it. It can't cannot be if I allow it to become biased, it becomes [00:24:00] irrelevant.  

Declan Hill: Yes, of course.  

Tim Palmbach: And, and therefore I don't have the, I shouldn't engage in the why. And, and, you know, you talked early on, you know, why do you get overwhelmed with emotion? I'm like, I can't afford to do that. I'm, I'm looking for data. 

Declan Hill: Yes.  

Tim Palmbach: Evidence. linkages between the evidence and, you know, between the victims and the scenes and the suspects. And to the extent I can keep that a pure process, it will yield better information, more reliable information for the investigators ultimately have to put this thing together. And, you know, again, often I was doing that as well. 

So is it is it valuable? Yes. It is valuable. Um, have I seen it be beneficial? Yes. Have I seen it been wrong? Yes. Um, but, but it's the, I kind of, I kind of believe the 2 worlds can't coexist. I know people disagree with me that I'm like, if you're looking at from a behavior point of view, that's 1 perspective. 

If you're looking at it from, Uh, a forensic point of view. [00:25:00] That's another perspective. If you're an investigator and you're doing interviews and you're reading people out, you're considering geographical location. That's a different perspective. And, and the best case scenario is those 3 worlds kind of work independently, unbiased, and then they come together and they, and it coalesces and it gels and you really end up with a good answer in the best case scenario. 

Declan Hill: Yeah, I think the Golden State Killer, there was a psychological thing and just to review for listeners who don't know that particular case, um, a serial rapist murderer in California and the police officers, the investigators back in the 70s and 80s when he was at his height of terror were convinced that he was a former police officer, a military man of some kind, because he always seemed to be, he always seemed to know what they're about to do next. And he was dropping taunting phone calls saying, Oh, you're just about to do blah, blah, blah. Well, I've destroyed all the, you know, those kinds of taunting [00:26:00] calls. 

And so fast forward decades later when they have a new technology called forensic genealogy, and they were narrowed down the DNA involved in this case from over a million suspects. You know, million men between those ages in California at that time to 300, and then they could go, Okay, let's put this psychological profile, see if those original investigators are right now down to 14, because that was just easier to do in terms of resources, and then bingo is one of those guys. 

It could as well, moving back to this particular case, just be a man who men who hate women and the women who are working the streets in that very dangerous occupation are just the easiest targets.  

Tim Palmbach: Yeah, and I think that that is, it probably wise likely going to be the right answer, but look at the worst case scenario is kind of the Dexter scenario.[00:27:00]  

……. 

Declan Hill: You're, you're investigated with a huge amount of experience. What's the difference between investigating current investigation where the phone calls come in at two in the morning, two in the afternoon, six o'clock, whatever. And you're pounding out the door, and I'm going to put this in quotations, a cold case investigation. 

How do you, do you approach these differently, or, and if so, how?  

Tim Palmbach: Sure, look it, so, um, a fresh scene, you, you, again, perfect orally, Everybody in their lane doing their work unbiased. Your crime scene people are collecting evidence, right? Your your enemies making initial determinations. Your investigators are talking to everybody and anybody. 

Somebody is looking for CCT cameras. Somebody is, you know, all of this is going on, you know, and it's a fast pace. Boom, boom, boom, boom. You know, if you ever go into, you know, a task force room or a homicide division room as [00:28:00] a case is coming, it's just it's really busy, right? Right.  

Declan Hill: Right.  

Tim Palmbach: Tips are coming in and, and, and things are getting assigned. 

Declan Hill: And, um, I mean, one of the 48 hours that people talk about that, that infamous 48 hours, if you can solve in 48 hours, it's done.  

Tim Palmbach: One of the biggest challenges is kind of the, The case officer, the supervisor in charge, riding everybody because they're going a hundred miles an hour, you know, now they're into day two, they haven't slept and, and they're like, and they're saying everything you do, you've got to document now early on, maybe it's a note, a notepad you can turn into a report later on, but you have to document because one of the biggest things is when, when the years go by and now becomes a cold case, I'll talk a little bit more about that. 

Declan Hill: Right.  

Tim Palmbach: Memory's gone. It's over. And if, if 30 percent of what you experienced and understood while you were doing the case, never made it to paper, that is gone forever. The chance of you remembering that is almost none. [00:29:00] And if you really have a cold case, generally speaking, what it, you know, what it means is you just came up a little bit short in most cases. 

It's not like every now and then it's a complete unknown. Um, but often it's like. You've got some solid suspects, you've got some relevant evidence, and the story is coming together, but you're coming up short of the standard that's being applied to you, appropriately applied to you by the prosecutor, right? 

That is, you know, have you, beyond a reasonable doubt, have you substantiated that this person engaged in these elements of this crime? Um, and I'd say that most of the cold cases, not all of them, are well on the road to that, they just can't get there. So, What's frustrating is often that could be that missing 30 percent of data that somehow it just fell through the cracks. 

Declan Hill: People are dying, people are forgetting. Do you find, um, when you're looking at a cold case that it's best to Um, you know, and [00:30:00] we'll move right away from this particular case. Um, but it's best for the person that's reviewing the file that's coming in is utterly independent. Um, you know, it's not best friends with the guy that did the original investigation, not even say working in the same unit. 

Tim Palmbach: I think so, and, and, and I, I think, um, and you don't see this often, but there's a, I've seen a couple of 'em where they have dedicated cold case units and they, and they're usually very, very seasoned investigators. Right. Um, and, and the reason why I think dedicated is, is better because number one, um, you, you're not gonna pick 'em unless they're really good at, and, and analytical and thoughtful can do this. 

And, and secondly, they can focus on it, right? Because otherwise what happens is in, in, you know, fairly larger jurisdiction. They give you four cold cases. Well, okay, that's great. But what if you had a bad year and you had 20 more homicides? I can guarantee you the cold case isn’t gonna get any attention. So, um, yes, I think it's always gonna [00:31:00] be a matter of budget. 

I think every police agency would say we do in a heartbeat if we had the personnel and funding, but that is the ideal for sure that a dedicated, highly trained, highly skilled, focused, um, group.  

Declan Hill: Walk me through this, because of our work here on Crime Waves, we get, you know, um, emails coming in, people write to me saying, hey, I really want you to look at this particular death because of, you know, it involves my son or involves somebody like this. 

What is the first step in a cold case? 

Tim Palmbach: Gather everything. It's basically an inventory. What do we have? Because, um, you know, from an evidence point of view, you know, if the same went to trial, like somebody's going to trial that evidence all ended up in court. I can't tell you how many times evidence gets either lost or destroyed when it's left in the jurisdiction of the court evidence areas. 

Um, wow. Many examples of that. So, uh. You know, the question is, did the evidence that was collected still exist? [00:32:00] Is it still testable or did they consume everything in testing has been properly stored? I mean, those are all very important questions. Um, and then it's a matter of where are all the records? Do we have all the records like every report? 

Do we have it? Do we have notes? Investigators notes. So the collection of the data, um, is going to be comprehensive and, and, and thorough. Uh, and then, and then you start inventorying, what do you have and where, what are you missing  

Declan Hill: Tim. Um, here is the part of the podcast which people like the best. 

That's where the student producer gets to ask questions, as opposed to me. Elizabeth has done fantastic work on this and Elizabeth as you've been listening to the interview. Are there some questions that you'd like to add here now.  

Elizabeth Scalzo: Yes. Tim, thank you for being here. First of all, I appreciate the time. Um, but my question for you is obviously working on cold [00:33:00] cases can be. Frustrating at times, especially when you don't have any leads necessarily. So how do you keep yourself driven and passionate to solve these cases? 

Tim Palmbach: It's weird in a way they're they've gotten nowhere. Right? So there's no hope. And, and, you know, and when there's no hope, you know, to me, 1st and foremost, I worry about the family of the victim. Right? You know, they have a need for closure and a right for closure. That's the most important and and and then, well, I mean, in theory, you also could have had a wrongful conviction and that's a horrible, horrible situation as well. 

Right? We've got to get that person exonerated. Right. And then go back to square one. And, and in the case of a serial killer, good heavens, you want to stop it. Um, so. that's there. But minus those kind of pressures, um, from investigators, they tend to do this the end of their career because it's far more relaxing. 

I mean, it's it's not this pressure of I got to get this [00:34:00] information. I got to get it now, you know, or my probabilities go down and there's gonna be another one tomorrow and another one the day after that. If cold cases are done, it is a much more cerebral methodical process. And so you get the right person with the right analytical skill sets and the right level of patience. 

And I think it's actually not the stressful event. You know, it's a challenge, you know, that, you know, and we all know that many of them were probably never going to solve, you know, for a million reasons, but lack of information being top of that. 

…… 

Declan Hill: Tim, thank you very much.  

Tim Palmbach: Declan, when you and I talked about that, I'd like to make one more comment. I think I missed out on, you know, and I think there was an inference. Well, because these of the, of the lifestyle, these girls, um, uh, you know, they just didn't get the proper attention now, I can't say that that's [00:35:00] never true. 

But I can tell you this, and I will refer it back to these cases, right? Um, none of us that were involved in that even remotely felt that way. And actually it was quite the opposite because, you know, once we looked at their, their lives, which were not going well and the hardships that they were facing and the families who miss them terribly, and, you know, we're hoping and praying for them to turn their lives around, um, quite the opposite. 

We went. You know, we got more engaged with this. This really stinks. And, and somebody finally has got to step up and, um, and, and kind of defend and advocate for this person who can no longer do for themselves. So I, we actually were, if anything, the other way we were, we were very motivated to, to, to solve these cases. 

Right.  

Declan Hill: Tim, thank you. Thank you for your work. Thank you for your time today.  

Tim Palmbach: My pleasure. Thank you.[00:36:00]  

……  

Declan Hill: Hey, it's Declan here. Thank you for listening to this Crime Waves episode Highway of Death. About a lonely spot alongside a road here in Connecticut, where the bodies of young women and one man were dumped by as yet unknown serial killer. It was produced by my brilliant students, Elizabeth Scalzo and Angie Paulus. 

And the guest was Tim Palmbach, a former senior investigator in the major crime unit. Of the Connecticut state police, and now a professor Amatori us here at the University of New Haven. If you found this program, interesting do subscribe like follow us on Spotify, Apple, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. 

And if you could also take some time to rate and review the program, it would be massively helpful in our building the [00:37:00] CrimeWaves program. Thank you. We hope that you join us again for the next episode of CrimeWaves