Welcome to ChangeMAKErs, a new MAKEManitoba podcast series highlighting research and innovation powered by members of the Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences.
In this episode, host and FAFS research facilitator Dr. Chantal Bassett chats with Dr. Cristina Rosell Professor and Head, Department of Food and Human Nutritional Sciences. Learn about her work in cereal science and food quality, and her collaborations with researchers around the world on the bread-making process.
Welcome to ChangeMAKErs, a new MAKEManitoba podcast series highlighting research and innovation powered by members of the Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences.
In this episode, host and FAFS research facilitator Dr. Chantal Bassett chats with Dr. Cristina Rosell Professor and Head, Department of Food and Human Nutritional Sciences. Learn about her work in cereal science and food quality, and her collaborations with researchers around the world on the bread-making process.
The way we grow and produce food is ever-changing, shaped by consumers and the climate in which we live and farm. Research at all points of our food system is essential for continuously improving food's journey from farm to table. The Manitoba Agriculture and Food Knowledge Exchange explores timely research innovations and applications that make our food system better than ever. Join us for today's podcast.
Chantal Bassett:Hello and welcome. This is ChangeMAKErs, a Manitoba Agriculture and Food Knowledge Exchange, otherwise known as MAKE podcast series with me Chantal Bassett. In each episode, we'll chat with an academic member of the faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences at the University of Manitoba to find out about the research and innovation they're working on and how this is shaping agriculture and food production in Manitoba and around the world. Now, as the research facilitator for the faculty, I get to work with all our incredible innovators, and I think it's high time for you to also get to discover their research as well as get to know the person behind these discoveries. Today I am joined by Dr. Cristina Rosell, professor and department head in the Department of Food and Human Nutritional Sciences. Thanks for joining me, Christina .
Cristina Rosell:It's a pleasure. Thanks for the invitation.
Chantal Bassett:Before we get into the details about what you study , Cristina, can you share how you got to where you are today?
Cristina Rosell:It has not been a straight way , so I think it's a wonderful question because it makes me think. I did so many different things and let me start from the beginning. I just studied pharmacy. It's a very different thing than the one I am doing just today. Then just by chance, I started in research doing my PhD. And the PhD was in the institutes of catalysis a nd petro chemistry in Spain. And the t hesis was related to the use of enzymes, particularly penicillin sates. So it was for making o r producing antibiotics. And then during that time, I did different state internships in Italy. And then during my postdoc, I moved to the use of enzymes in process engineering, helping the catalysis of lower water content systems. So that was a move from my previous research. And then during that time , I did a second postdoc, but back in Spain. It was my first toot with food. So at that time it was meat. So I worked with dry cured meat . So the ham that is very popular in Spain. We understood the role of enzymes, but in this case it was not an exogenous enzymes, but more the enzyme that was in the muscle and the role of the enzymes in dry curing. And then , that was in the Institute of Photochemistry and Food Technology in Spain that belongs to the Spanish Research Council. I got my tenure position, and it was in cereals and grains. So that was 25 years ago and that was when I started with cereals and grains. As you can see, many different experience and I am always trying to be very positive. So I think all of those experience have shaped me, the knowledge and the expertise that I have. 25 years ago I started with cereals and grains, and I had to train myself in a different topic. At the beginning I tried to learn as much as possible about cereals because it was a different commodity. So starting with wheat, trying to understand wheat from the physical chemical point of view, learning all the classical methodologies about radiology , also about chemistry; applying advanced technologies like HPLC, GC and Electro Capillary Electrophoresis. Maybe now those are not advanced techniques, but I'm talking about 25 years ago. And also microstructure using Micro Topography. So I learn many different things, and I tried to, at the same time, apply all of them in the bread-making process. Helping industry and also trying to give responses to some challenge that there I had at that moment, like one example was at the very beginning. It was one pest that was very common in Spain that was attacking wheat a nd decreasing wheat quality. I tried to understand first what was happening. And it was related to the enzymes. So that was great because I love working with enzymes and I'm using them as much as possible. I learned all of that. And that insect was weakening or diluting quality. After understanding that I tried to find the different alternatives or tools that could recover at least partially recover the quality of the wheat using different enzymes or modify the bread-making process. I think that was really useful because it allows me understand how to work with very poor quality gluten. That was the beginning of my research line into gluten free . That was wonderful.
Chantal Bassett:And you know, we have to tell our listeners that not only are we thrilled to have you at the University of Manitoba, but because you are the world world's most prolific and most highly cited author in gluten development. This is according to VAL, an internationally recognized research metrics database. And you have an H index of 69 indicating that more than 69 of your publications have been cited at least 69 times now. That's impressive.
Cristina Rosell:Thank you so much for pointing out that. That makes me feel old <laugh> . Yes, it seems like I never have the feeling that I have done so many things. And only when I have the opportunity to sit down to talk to somebody, is when I am really thinking about all the research that I have done. Sometimes I cannot believe that those were the programs that I participated in or the research that I have done, or their contributions. I like the things that I am doing. I love research, I am always really enthusiastic and passionate about the research. Starting new things, learning new techniques. Yeah, I think it's a wonderful profession.
Chantal Bassett:In terms of starting new things, you know, moving to Canada, to Winnipeg across, you know, the prairies, obviously wheat , as well as other cereal grains are of great importance here. Was that part of the draw, or at least it was a great benefit to lead a cereal based research program in the heart of the prairies?
Cristina Rosell:Yeah, I think that was the driving force for me to come here. I was looking for a new challenge, and Manitoba have been one of my reference points when I was working with cereals. Because Manitoba is the highest quality wheat in the world . For me it was a reference call, and also because very big names were working here. They have been my reference when I started to work with cereals, it was like a dream to have this opportunity. I've been starting with wheat, I've also been working with many different commodities: cereals , legumes, and many other types of commodities. I like to say that we can work with any material or any source. We can obtain flour or powder and we can use it for making food. I used all those commodities and implemented them for obtaining bakery products, like bread. But then when , I came here I thought that it was the opportunity to return to wheat. Also because I have always been resilient. I can adapt to any, I think, research program in the Department of Food and Human Nutritional Science. There are wonderful people that are working with cereals, legumes, or proteins in nutrition, in chemistry and in non-food application. So I look for the gap in which I can focus my research program based on my expertise and knowledge. And just now I was not too much in research about wheat , so I thought, okay, being one of the most important places in wheat , considering production and also processing, so why not? So I started to explore what was interesting for the industry and also for consumers. I try to define a research program that is connecting wheat grains , the quality of the wheat grains from the very beginning till the end. Developing healthy breads, particularly for those people with diabetes, pre-diabetes, or for all consumers that are looking for low glycemic index bread . I try to connect all of those. It was wonderful because the bridge between the kernels and the bread have been in the all families. That is one of the most important enzymes in the wheat quality. As I mentioned before. I like to work with enzymes and this is one of the most useful one. In good quality in bread-making, and also in starch digestibility that is related to diabetes.
Chantal Bassett:So can you help our listeners understand a bit more about the enzymatic process within grains? Like is the enzyme present within the grain itself, or is it added during the processing?
Cristina Rosell:Okay, so a wonderful question. So it could be both ways. The imilates and specifically the alphimilates is in the wheat kernals. You need the right amount of imilates to have very good quality in bread-making. But if you have an excess of imilates, you have low quality flour and the breads are going to be poor, even the dough is going to be very , very sticky. You are not going to get good bread . You have sometimes you have high amyloids activity, and that occurs when you have germinated with or there are some pathology called lay maturity imilates that are related to a genetic pathology. So in those cases, you have high imilate activity. And considering the import , the climate change that we are having now, we cannot predict how the wheat crop is going to be. How it's going to be or the quality, because sometimes you have rains before harvest, so you can have very high imilate activity that is going to downgrade the wheat . It's very important to identify those at the very early stage, and also to have the right tools to add value to those wheats because just now they could be blended with some wheat or if the imilate activity is really, really high, they have to be used for different purposes and not bread-making. We want to even to develop rapid techniques for detecting those goods, but also develop different applications for bread-making to define tools that allows us to use that type of wheat. And the second part of this picture is from the bread-making to consumers, which is very important. Starch digestibility and the imilates is the main player in starch digestibility. We have it in the wheat . We are using that enzyme in bread-making. So sometimes if you don't have enough amount of imilates, you can add it. So it can be used as an additive for the bread-making process. But then the enzyme that is going to determine the degree of hydrolysis of the starch. We need it for the bread-making because it's using the sugars. We want very aereated breads with high volume when we have the bread. The state of the starch in the bread is also very important because when we are eating the bread the hydrolysis of the starch is the one that is going to determine the glucose level in our blood. And that is related to the diabetes. It's a very nice project because we can work from breeders to consumers. So we are going to see the impact of wheat quality on the health of consumers.
Chantal Bassett:Oh , wow. So yeah, in terms of, I could see how the enzymes, like what you were explaining are so critical, not only for some of the functionality making, if the bread is gonna be super dense or very sticky and therefore not bread. But really, and to the point where that enzyme is critical. You can't just not have it because it helps break down the starch so that the yeasts have some sugar, but also, you know, there needs to be some natural sugars in breads. But to a certain extent, we want to control that, especially for people with diabetes. And so that's great that you're, you know, trying to develop some novel approaches and some tools to develop, you know, innovative bakery products that could be useful for all, because we're not all consuming the same types of breads. Can you tell me a bit more about... so w e talked about enzymes, but I think that you're working on others, using some co-products. Are you incorporating some healthy ingredients a nd breads? And I know that you can't just boost up, you know, entirely all the fiber because then nobody's wants t o eat it. So what are you doing to make breads healthier?
Cristina Rosell:That is also a very good question, we are working with wheat, also there is a lot of interesting proteins and we have plenty of commodities in which we are extracting the proteins, but we also have co-products after protein extraction. The main co-products core products are starch and fibre. I've been working with both from the start, I have had a long research because , starch is very important for gluten-free products. So that is one of the research problems that I started many years ago. And the other part is the fibre, but as you mentioned, people doesn't like to eat fibre. Also from the technological point of view, they are really not very desirable materials to make bread because the quality of the bread is decreasing and the functionality and technological properties of the dough , we have been working trying to modify fibre even from rice . We have been working in bran from rice , but also in some other commodities, not when we have , when we are talking about fibre, it is not like... it's like a big pool, but there are plenty of different compounds, polymers that are fitting within the concept of fibre. And not all of them have the same functionality. So we have insoluble fibre and we have soluble fibre, and the functionality is completely different. The insoluble fibre is from the technological point of view, we are trying to get rid of that, or at least decrease But from the healthy point of view the one that have intestinal functionality and is required for a healthy purpose. But also the soluble fibre is very important because it's the one that can help lower cholesterol levels. So that is very important from the health point of view. But from the technological point of view, also is very important because it has a high water absorption. It helps us in making the bread properties of the dough. The extensibility in the case of gluten-free bread is even more important because it contributes alot to the viscosity and the elasticity of the dough. So we can work with that, making extensible dough and extensible bakery products. We are working, we don't always have the right amount of insoluble and soluble fibre. So we are working with physical treatments and also with enzymatic treatments in , regarding , physical treatments. We have been working , trying to modulate the particle size distribution with very intense milling. Also, we have been applying high pressure... high hydrostatic pressure. Those are one of the techniques that we have been using apart from thermal treatments on enzymes. I've been working with plenty of those with carbohydrates, with cellulose. So there are many, many different enzymes that can hydrolyze fibre. But it is very important to know which fibre we have, because otherwise we can use it in science , but not the proper ones. We need to understand, what do we have in our hands, and then we can apply the tools that we know could work trying to modify that balance that we can work and we can integrate that fibre. In the case of breads, obtaining bread with high fibre content, but also that they are appealing. Because otherwise we can have high fibre breads nobody wants to eat.
Chantal Bassett:It's a challenge. Yeah, I don't know if you knew, but I consume gluten-free products. I do not digest gluten. And so, I get that there are some products that I've learned, purchased, and currently stay away from. But also just kind of like anybody who's even eating regular bread, there's the people that want to seek out hardy breads, a denser bread, a lighter bread. So there's a need for some variety. And so I am assuming that, you know, that those are some of the things that you're working on. But in terms of... I want to know more about kind of your work with industry and perhaps because it's not just creating one recipe because you said that climate change is having an impact on the world itself, so it's not just creating an ultimate blend or an ultimate recipe. It's always continuously adapting.
Cristina Rosell:Yes. And I think I choose the right food for working because there are thousands of different types of breads, because around the world we have plenty of specialties. And also, as you mentioned, consumers... not all consumers are looking for the same type of bread, Apart from all those consumers that because of pathologies or any other decision, they are eating gluten free . We have a food that can make many different things . One of them is more focus about industry because they are demanding to improve processes to use different commodities that have been to integrate in the production that they have. And we are seeing that now they are incorporating, apart from wheat, we have other cereals: oats, rice , corn and also pseudo cereals, quinoa , amarants. So that is giving us plenty of possibilities of obtaining different types of bread. But that doesn't mean that the industry can just blend it and put it into the process and obtain the same quality of bread. Its material needs have their own requirements. So you have to optimize the process for when you are making even a very small change in the recipe or in the process. And then the other part of this picture is consumers. And consumers are changing, they liketo be probably surprised with new products. Thinking about some consumers, thy are looking for healthy products, some others like new tastes or flavours or new appearance or different type of breads . We are working with flatbreads, we are working with fermented bread with sourdough breads, and those are giving completely different texture flavours and taste. We have the tools, we have the experience. So industry and consumers, those are our big targets. We can have the knowledge, but we need to give response to one and the other. And that is , I always think that it's very important for researchers that we look around, we have to know the reality. And now the driving forces in research is sustainability, also health concept. And with one and the other we have to work trying to solve the challenge for the industry and also for consumers within those pillars in research. Because of that, in our research program is not only based on scientific concepts, always we have to be to know the state of the art, but also knowing the market. In our research, we are always incorporating how is the market at any moment. So before starting any research program or any research project, we are checking the grocery stores. We are checking small shops, and not only in the place where we are, because we are working in a global world , so we are checking groceries on their websites all over the world. So we can have a very good idea about what is going on, what is needed, where the gaps are, and then we define the research that can fill those gaps.
Chantal Bassett:So Christina , you touched on sustainability, and you also touched on how manufacturers or processors are really looking to researchers such as yourself to help improve their processes and help improve their end products. But can you relate to how you talked about co-product utilization? I'm assuming like these co-products, normally grain is, or anything, even a protein plant protein is being extracted. I'm assuming that that's the co-products that you're referring to and they'd otherwise go to waste. So we're trying to find a way to incorporate them into new products.
Cristina Rosell:Yes, they could be waste. But also they could used for feeding or for other applications.
Chantal Bassett:So a lower value?
Cristina Rosell:Yes. So low value products are cheaper or not as profitable for the industry as high added value product. So we are using... trying to use what are under utilized. We are trying to find new applications for fibre co- products. And also for the starch , which has now many applications for making products. And it has plenty of applications, even in the pharmaceutical companies and cosmetics and so on. But we want to develop completely different... not completely different, but some other applications. So we have been working... I think we started 10 years ago starting from different sources because not all... when we talk about starch... not all the starch from different sources is the same. They have completely different functionality and technological properties. So we have been working with starches from rice, corn, potato, beans and other different tubors. And treating those starches with different enzymes. We got the poorer starches, and the name is explaining what they are. Those are starch granules with plenty of poorer ones, and you can use that type of starch as absorbents for food applications, but also for pharmaceutical ones and cosmetic, because you can absorb in those granules different materials. We have used... one example that we have developed is to use probiotics. So we absorb one lactobacillus in the starch. We tested that in rice starch and also corn starch, and we increase the stability of the microbe when we absorb it in the startch granules. So that was one of the applications that we develop. And also this type of treatment, enzymatic treatment of the starch. We saw that we develop poorer starch when we treat starch with enzymes. Granular starch. We also saw that after gelatinization of those poorer starchs, we can net worths and completely different properties. We can modulate the properties of the gels, also working with enzymatic, pre-treatments. That was one of the examples that we have used in the case of starch. And in the case of fibre, we are going to explore much more now. We have plenty of different physical treatments. We can work not only in my lab, but also in other labs in the department. So we can work with extrusion, we can work with cold plasma , with Dr . Cocell with Dr. Bandara... many other applications. We are going to start also to work with solid state fermentation and it is a different way to modify the properties of this material. So yeah, it's a very exciting future.
Chantal Bassett:Continuously innovating. I'm interested to see what products. It's almost too bad that though a company will go ahead and cite your work as a consumer. You don't get to see your name on a package <laugh>.
Cristina Rosell:Yeah, we tried , we started with gluten free , and also we developed a lot of calorie blends. So at that moment, one of them was patented. We started to explore the possibility to translate the knowledge and also to see that product in the market. But it was really difficult to put the product in the market . The main difficulty was to convince a company to develop the product and put the product in the market. So those innovations have not been directly to the market, but we are really pleased that those have been the starting point for the companies, and they have been implementing those in a different ways. But those have been translated to the industry.
Chantal Bassett:We have evidence that many of our researchers, including yourself, have companies citing your work in their patent applications, but it doesn't mean... yet you said that it can serve as a basis, and it's hard to see because foods or even bread products are very complex. You know, organisms in terms of... it's really hard to see where a certain research program would've influenced an end product. But you're right, all of this information is of value to industry, to consumers, so that we have options.
Cristina Rosell:Yes, and we are really happy that we are... at least , I am really happy that we are putting our seed in improving things for the industries and also for the consumers offering different type of products.
Chantal Bassett:So Cristina, you recently secured some new infrastructure through the Canada Foundation for Innovation. And so tell me a bit more about what this equipment does and what you're hoping to do in the next years.
Cristina Rosell:Okay. That is going to help us a lot. And , not only in my research program, but also the research in the Department of Food and Human Nutritional Science. It is going to complement the facilities that we already have in the department. It is going to extend our capacities in radiology . Having this equipment is going to allow us better understand starch and also protein materials. It is going to allow us also to work with fibre. So the focus is for them is co-products. That was the focus in this grant and is going to give us facilities that allows us to work close to the industry, because some of them is a portable device and some others are for increasing our capacities in radiology.
Chantal Bassett:So Cristina, you've told told me a lot about your research program, but, and also how others are using this research, but you're not working in silo, you're working with researchers from around the world. In terms of, and you're working on cereal grains that are not necessarily grown in Manitoba. How is the internationalization of research important to all?
Cristina Rosell:I think it's really, really important. It's crucial. I think teamwork is very important. And because we are living in a global world , we have to join efforts if we want to move forward faster. I realized this concept of collaboration at the very beginning when I started in research. I thought that I could not really go further in research if I was working alone. I started collaborating with researchers from India, China, South America, Africa, US and also from Europe, of course. So I started with some of those continents and countries. I started to work with them because they have plenty of different commodities, plenty of different materials that we don't have it in our place. It was the way to innovate with new and different materials. I base it in my collaborations, internships. I always push or motivate my students to do internships in different places because it's a way to connect with some other groups and also to learn different things apart from the experience that they can have and grow at a personal level. But also I have to be an example for them because every 3, 4 years I have been doing internships in different places. I have been invited to research in different groups. I think that part also allowed me to have a great network. I think have I met wonderful people and I'm still working and collaborating with them. I think we can make good research complementing each other. So that is the way that I try to base my research with wonderful collaborations around the world .
Chantal Bassett:And I can see how that relates to sustainability. Not one single researcher is ever going to solve the many challenges of climate change.
Cristina Rosell:Yeah, and also in some countries it's very important... sustainability, because we know that wheat is the basis for bakery products, but in some countries, they have to import wheat because they don't have the cereal. So I try to work with them , looking around for the commodities that they have. In some places it could be other cereals like rice, in some others it is pseudo cereals. So I've been working with them trying to understand those commodities, integrating those, replacing with , so it could be... their bread-making process could be more sustainable for the country, providing food to all consumers, whatever their level or their economical level is.
Chantal Bassett:So, Cristina, I know that you work very long hours. We appreciate it in terms of... and you're continuously innovating , uh, here in Manitoba and around the world. But why don't you let us know a bit more about what you do during your off hours. What makes you tick?
Cristina Rosell:Probably, that is the most difficult question that you have made <laugh> in this interview. So I have long hours working, but when I am not working, I like to enjoy with my family and with friends. So we like to have people at home enjoy with them. So that is the most relaxing time. And of course, we like... I like to go with my family traveling, so we... we like to explore new things, new places. So that is how I fill my free time.
Chantal Bassett:In terms of travel, what's on the wish list for the next few years?
Cristina Rosell:We would like to know Canada better. The north part of Canada, because , we have been east, a little bit to the west , to Vancouver and Banff. But we don't know anything about the northern part. So we would like to explore and enjoy nature . So we would like to know this is big, big country to us. It's like we have plenty of options now. So we... it is just the way that we have to plan that because we would like to go with the whole family. And it's difficult to organize. Because they are not kids anymore. So it is very difficult to organize and to plan those kind of trips.
Chantal Bassett:Well, I hope that you get to go and carve out the times to go on some adventures, because it's important. And Canada as well. It's certainly worth exploring.
Cristina Rosell:Yes, for sure. And we are still waiting for some friends from Spain are coming to visit us. We are expecting that in the next few years, we are going to have plenty of visitors. So that is the other thing that we are looking forward to.
Chantal Bassett:So Cristina, you've talked about, your collaborators, but a lot of your day-to-day collaborations is within your own research group. Can you tell me a bit more about who works with you?
Cristina Rosell:Yeah, of course. I think they are the most important people in the research program because just now I have 1 lab in Spain and the lab here in Manitoba, in Winnipeg. So... and I have wonderful people. I have a postdoc that is Dr . Garon , that is managing the lab in Spain. And I have students there, but he's my right hand. And here I have my team with Dr . Haspari that is my postdoctoral fellow. And he's managing... I can say that he's my left hand . And I have in both labs, wonderful students and PhD master students . So they are the real players in this picture.
Chantal Bassett:Thank you very much for chatting with me. So this has been Dr. Chantal Bassett, joined by Dr. Cristina Rosell , professor in the Department of Food and Human Nutritional Sciences at the University of Manitoba. And that's it for today's episode of ChangeMAKErs, the Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences Research and Innovation podcast. Join me in future episodes to hear about other fascinating research being led by agricultural and AgriFood innovators at the University of Manitoba.