The unseen world of microbiology is hard to navigate. Dr. Claudia Narvaez explains the role of microbiology in food safety and the importance of understanding germs and bacteria to ensure safety and true cleanliness. Topics span your microbiome, the cleanliness of your counter top, and the biofilm that bacteria can produce to resist your typical clean up.
Claudia Narvaez is an associate professor in Food and Human Nutritional Sciences at the University of Manitoba. Her research includes the development of suitable interventions to reduce the presence of pathogenic organisms in the food continuum.
The unseen world of microbiology is hard to navigate. Dr. Claudia Narvaez explains the role of microbiology in food safety and the importance of understanding germs and bacteria to ensure safety and true cleanliness. Topics span your microbiome, the cleanliness of your counter top, and the biofilm that bacteria can produce to resist your typical clean up.
Claudia Narvaez is an associate professor in Food and Human Nutritional Sciences at the University of Manitoba. Her research includes the development of suitable interventions to reduce the presence of pathogenic organisms in the food continuum.
Welcome to the Manitoba Agriculture and Food Knowledge Exchange podcast. I'm Jordan Cicewa and today we're talking about your food and the microbiology of food safety. We really wanted to find out what's happening at that microscopic level. So we went to the University of Manitoba to the Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences, and they said, you got to talk to Dr. Claudia Narvaez. And Dr. Claudia, I understand that a lot of your work has to do with the microbiology of food safety.
Claudia Narvaez:Yes, that's correct.
Jordan Cicewa:And this is for those of us that are, that are listening, that, you know, when we're watching TV or when we're seeing things in the media about disease or, or concerns, we should have with our food. You're the, you're the person making sure that the research is getting done to keep us safe.
Claudia Narvaez:Yeah, that's right. When the food industry had concerns about any food safety issue or a quality issue that's related to microorganisms, we normally get a call into food proposal forward to kind of help to solve those issues that we get funding for these different places. And then we made sure the research is in place to kind of solve these issues and make food as safe as we can.
Jordan Cicewa:And I guess that's the thing for us the public to trust the to trust the producers, food producers are actually out there looking for solutions, anytime that there is an issue, correct?
Claudia Narvaez:Yeah, they do, because sometimes they don't understand the biology of these microorganisms and they for sure need to do some partnership with universities, or scientific, you know, institutions where we can do that research, answer the questions they have the best we can because in science, you not always can get all the answers. Sometimes you get even more questions, right? But it's what we do. And that's what make research so interesting.
Jordan Cicewa:So with that being said, with the questions and with looking for answers, one question I've always had is, are all bacteria bad?
Claudia Narvaez:No, Jordan, you have really good bacteria in your body, which is a part of your normal flora or bacteria community.
Jordan Cicewa:And that also pertains to food, correct?
Claudia Narvaez:Yes, that's right. Our food is coming from different sources. We have animal sources, vegetables, fruits, fish, what have you, all these living entities we're consuming. They all have a natural microbiome or natural micro flora which is part of their immune system and their protection that they will have a role fighting against bad bacteria. Right. So yes, we have a lot of good bacteria.
Jordan Cicewa:Outstanding. That's a good place to start because I think that when we know that we don't have to get rid of all bacteria and certain bacteria are going to be present in our food, it kind of, it's a calming effect to that, right? Like as somebody that I gotta, I have to eat. So if I'm scared of my food, then I've got a problem. So knowing that it's okay to have some bacteria on that is good, but that bacteria, there is some resistance issues. And this is, I guess, as part of your research, is the resistance of bacteria.
Claudia Narvaez:Yeah. Because we do have a normal microbiome or natural flora, microbial flora, every time we get treated with a nti-microbials like antibiotics, because you have a sore throat and then you get a prescription from the doctor and then you take your antibiotics. Sometimes the b ad bacteria that's causing the infection may develop some r esistance, but also, your normal flora could also develop some r esistance. And that r esistance that r ubbing sometimes by genes and they can share genes like different bacteria can share g enes, which is e ach o ther. So that's a problem for sure.
Jordan Cicewa:And, and that problem, so different bacteria, I guess, mutating would be a good way to say that?
Claudia Narvaez:They can mutate. They can acquire genes from other bacteria. We call those are mobile genetic elements.
Jordan Cicewa:Okay. So mobile genetic elements, as they kind of, as different bacteria interact, they change how they protect themselves, I guess.
Claudia Narvaez:Yeah, they do, it's like sharing information, right? It's like you and me, you asking me, Oh, I need to go, you know, to get my car fixed. So you know a good mechanic. And then, Oh, well you can go here and there, like bacteria can talk to each other, believe it or not.
Jordan Cicewa:Well, if the doctor says it's happening, I'm believing it. So what are bacteria doing now? How are they changing? How are some of the adaptions that you were seeing with the protections that they're kind of coming up with?
Claudia Narvaez:Well, bacteria, they have different mechanisms to adapt to stress conditions like people, right? We have our mechanisms to cope with stress. Bacteria can do the same and they have different genes that they can use when they are exposed to stress. For example, anti-microbial resistance or resistance to antibiotics will be an example. Another example would be the formation of biofilms and biofilms are shields that bacteria can form. How they do that? They can, when they become big communities,, meaning that you have different bacteria living with other species or with the same species in a specific surface, if they like the place they are, they can form these mucoid stasis. And they form that shield. Uh, this shield over time will harden and will protect bacteria, it's like when you're in your house, and then you're protected from the environment, you are warm, you're cosy. So it is the same for bacteria. And that's a way for them to kind of persist or resist the vitamin.
Jordan Cicewa:So we've got good and bad bacteria. And now you're telling me we've got biofilm that is produced by bacteria. And it's that shield, that's the biofilm, that shield keeps these good and bad bacteria safe. So if I want to remove bad bacteria from my food, or from even a surface, I guess, in my house, how do I get rid of the biofilm? Yeah.
Claudia Narvaez:Well, the biofilm, you can find biofilms in your house normally related to surfaces, not necessarily to food, the concern with that food items is that if you have a biofilm in the sink, in your kitchen or on your counter top, and you don't clean it well, and then you place food items on that countertop, at least you have a biofilm harbouring bacteria. They can cross-contaminate meaning that bacteria can transfer from one surface to another different surface. So one surface that's contaminated with bacteria can transfer to the food item you're placing in that surface, if you don't clean it properly. So to get rid of biofilm, you have to use mechanical removal or elbow grease. And if you want an example of a huge, ugly biofilm, you have to go to your bathtub or your sink in your bathroom. And then, you know, when you get a lot of hair there and then you're trying to get rid of it so that water can flow again, and then you get these black thing going on. That's actually biofilm, that's an example.
Jordan Cicewa:That's a great yet horrible example of that. Now you've also got some interesting research in removing biofilms and, we talked off air and you called it a bacteria phage.
Claudia Narvaez:Oh yeah. There are in nature millions or billions of little viruses that are specific against bacteria. Meaning that let's say we had a flu virus which is causing disease in people because the target for these viruses are mammals, right? In the case of phages, they're very specific only against bacteria. And they are very specific about some types of bactiera, let's say, for example, we have phages that can kill salmonella, different phages that can kill listeria, which are bacteria. So now we are doing some research, isolating these good phages. And we're trying to use those phages to kill bacteria that can be in the biofilm or bacteria that can be contaminating food. And that those are considered, those viruses are harmless to humans or mammals or plants. They only kill some type of bacteria.
Jordan Cicewa:So these bacteria phages are basically keeping humans safe because they're targeting the bacteria. And that's part of your research I imagine, or the research that's out there is what viruses to introduce to make food safe.
Claudia Narvaez:Yes, that's right. And we already have viruses like phages in our body as a part of our normal flora. So you can find bacteria phages in dairy products and vegetables and in your own gut flora. So that's normal
Jordan Cicewa:Now I think a great conversation, eye-opening conversation. I think I would be remiss to not ask this question. Should we be scared? Should we be scared of bacteria? I mean, to a point to a degree in everything, but as a, as an expert, do you still eat food?
Claudia Narvaez:Of course, I'm not germaphobic at all. I like my normal flora and I am grateful because it's keeping a balance. Uh, I would say that you shouldn't be scared too much, you always have to be aware but I always say when people ask that kind of question, that everything you do in life conveys some kind of risk. There is always a likelihood that when you are driving your car, you're going to have a car crash or you're flying for the holidays. You may have, you know, an accident or something can always happen. And how would you have a peace of mind? Because you're trusting that the people that are manufacturing cars, they're doing everything the best way they can. They're doing the safe tests and doing all the due diligenc. It is the same with food and the food industry. We can only trust that the food industry is actually doing the best they can to manufacture safe food for Canadians. Also, we had regulations. We have the government, we have Public Health Canada. We have CFIA developing procedures. And the food industry is following those procedures that are targeting food safety. So, and they also put money intofundsresearch. They provide a lot of the fonts we use at the university to do research because they need, or they are asking questions about how to produce safer food.
Jordan Cicewa:And so that's how you get your funding. As an entity at the University of Manitoba. It's actually the food producers who are stepping up to say, we see some concerns we need the answers, that's how this works?
Claudia Narvaez:That's how that works. They normally will identify issues and they will try to fix it. When they cannot deal with it, they will open a proposal. For example, they have food safety calls, and they will call for different areas where they are having issues. And then you would propose a research, they will assess, is that what potentially will answer the questions they have. And then if they approved, then you would receive the money and that how you pay your grad students and then you get your supply for research.
Jordan Cicewa:Dr. Claudia Narvaez. Thank you so much for joining us on the Manitoba Knowledge Exchange, very eyeopening. And I'm grateful that you took the time for us and look forward to reading more of your research.
Claudia Narvaez:It is always a pleasure when I get to talk about what I like. So you're welcome.
Jordan Cicewa:You're welcome. Thank you so much.