The Athlete’s Mindset in the Classroom: The Power of Confidence, Goal-Setting and Positivity in STEM - Kathy Meyers, Teacher at Corner Canyon High School

Why do so many students (and adults) believe they “just aren’t good at math”? How can educators shift that mindset and build confidence in STEM learning?

In this episode of The TechEd Podcast, host Matt Kirchner sits down with Kathy Meyers, a veteran high school teacher who blends sports psychology with math instruction to help students overcome self-doubt, develop resilience, and master problem-solving—critical skills for both the classroom and the workforce.

Kathy shares how techniques used by elite athletes—positive self-talk, goal-setting, and focus strategies—can transform student outcomes in STEM education. From tackling math anxiety to fostering leadership and teamwork, she provides practical strategies that educators and parents can use to support student success.

Listen to learn:

• The role of self-talk, confidence, and mindset in learning math and technical subjects
• How Sudoku puzzles teach problem-solving and resilience from day one
• Why playing to win vs. playing not to lose matters in both sports and education
• How to help students reframe failure as growth in STEM classrooms
• Real-life stories of students who applied these lessons in college, careers, and beyond

The power of a positive mindset can completely change the trajectory of a student's life! Educators and leaders, these are great tools to instill in your classroom and workplace.

3 Big Takeaways from this Episode:

1. Mindset Matters in Math and STEM

Students often struggle not because they lack ability, but because they believe they aren’t “math people.” Applying sports psychology techniques like positive self-talk and goal-setting helps reframe their approach to learning.

2. Failure is Part of the Learning Process

Just like in sports, students need a growth mindset to push through challenges. Teaching strategies like trying different problem-solving methods (as with Sudoku puzzles) encourages resilience and adaptability.

3. Confidence and Preparation Lead to Success

Whether it’s a test, a job interview, or a big presentation, students perform best when they train their minds like athletes—visualizing success, controlling self-doubt, and focusing on small, actionable steps.

Resources in this Episode:

View Kathy's YouTube channel with math tips & tricks!

Other resources:

• The Happiness Advantage by Shawn Achor
• Napoleon Hill books
• Norman Vincent Peale books
• Tony Robbins resources
• Rudy - A football movie about perseverance and goal-setting

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Transcript

Matt Kirchner: 0:08

It's The TechEd Podcast. Welcome in. I am your host. Matt Kirkner, you know I have been going through life way too long and had way too many experiences and been put in exactly the right place at exactly the right time to believe that that is just a coincidence. And so it was that I crossed paths with today's guest on The TechEd Podcast. As our audience might know, I spend a fair amount of time in Idaho during the first quarter of every year. Love to ski, get a lot of work done while I'm out there as well. But that's where I was several weeks ago, and I was sitting on the chair lift. And for individuals in the audience who are skiers, you know that to pass time on a five or 10 minute lift ride, a lot of times, you will strike up a conversation with whoever is on that lift with you, stranger or not, it starts out with, where have you skied this morning? What runs have you done? And then if that person is from somewhere else, you ask where they're from. And if you have enough time on that lift ride, you might even get into what they do for a living. That is what happened with today's guest, Kathy Myers. She is a teacher at corner Canyon High School in Draper, Utah, and I asked her what she did. We got to talking about the work she was doing. She found out she was in education, and then I found out what she was teaching. And I was like, oh my goodness, I had never heard of this before in a high school, our audience needs to meet this person and talk about the great learning she is bringing into the high school classroom. It's got applications across stem and TechEd and beyond. Let's start out by welcoming Kathy Myers to The TechEd Podcast. Kathy, great to see you again, and thanks for being with us.

Kathy Meyers: 1:40

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me today. I really do believe in what I teach.

Matt Kirchner: 1:45

No, I know you do, and that was so clear when we were having that conversation. And it was like, I mean not just the content that you're teaching, but the fact that you are so into it, and you started talking about some of the benefits that your students are receiving, and students coming back years later and saying what I learned in this course is paying dividends throughout life after high school. That's got to be incredibly heartwarming. We will talk about that, but the topic first, so tell our audience what it is that you teach that is so unique in a high school setting.

Kathy Meyers: 2:15

All right, so I teach secondary math to 15 and 16 year olds, and I also teach sports psychology. I received my master's degree from the University of Utah, like, 25 years ago and and ever since I finished my degree, I started teaching sports psychology. They're like, that's so cool. Like, go for it. You can teach it. And at the time, there wasn't a curriculum for high school, the high school level, so I took the information I was learning at my master's degree and made it more to a high school level, and that's what I've been teaching. And I just keep adding to it all the cool research every year. Yeah,

Matt Kirchner: 2:48

it's awesome. So the the math part of it, obviously not so unique. There's tons and tons of teachers that are teaching math at the high school level, but integrating that sports psychology and teaching that sports psychology really, really fascinating. What is sports psychology? If you could give a definition in a few sentences,

Kathy Meyers: 3:03

yeah, sports ecology is is getting your mindset correct so that you can perform at your best. And it's not necessary just for athletes. It's for performers of all kinds, choir, theater, dance, whatever. You know, you can name it, but it's just getting your mind in the moment, to go do your best in the very moment that you're in and not worry about like past or future, and try to have your mind connected to your body. So it's going to be awesome. Yeah.

Matt Kirchner: 3:30

So I can totally see applications for that, certainly in sports, right? I mean, the psychology of sports that how you think about the sport that you're in, how you clear your mind, how you focus all these things, you know, whether you're playing baseball, playing football, you're a dancer, you're a skier, I mean having your mind where it needs to be and being present super, super important in the field of sports. But then you're taking those methodologies into the classroom. So go a little bit deeper on what your students are learning, right?

Kathy Meyers: 3:59

So how I take the idea into math is I just feel like a lot of people have given up when they're 15. A lot of students don't love math, and they're struggling. It's hard for them, really, math is hard for a lot of people, a lot of the world. I have parent teacher conference next week, and I'll have parents come, and it's really easy for people to say, the parent the adults like we don't speak very highly of math. We don't, we don't act like we can do it. Like parents come adults that are pretty awesome come and say, Oh, I'm not a math person. Like people are so freely willing to admit that. And in a civilized society, first world country, you would never admit that you can't read, but people are really happy to say, Oh, I can't do math. That's for my husband, or that's for the other people of the world. Like, I am not that person, and I don't feel that way about math at all. Like I feel like it's like a sports skill. You want to learn something. Okay? You can learn it. Get the right people around you to support you, learn the technique, learn the methods, and make sure it's fun. Like, I feel like if 15 year olds hate math, you. They have a long life of math being involved, and they're going to get ripped off. They're maybe not going to get the job they want because they're too scared to do math. So

Matt Kirchner: 5:09

all these years that I, you know, I joke with my kids somewhat that I was really, really good at math, until they started putting letters in the equations. And as soon as I got into algebra, and I'm like, What are these slides doing here? And I feel like I'm actually pretty decent at math, but, but used to joke about that, and you're right. I never thought about it that way. The number of people that say, Well, I'm just not a math person. I'm no good at math. So that's a really, really interesting perspective. And in as much as we talked about, you know, STEM education, being science, technology, engineering and math, math, certainly in one form or another, fundamental, there's so many career opportunities, so many life skills, right? And so if somebody's giving up on themselves as a freshman or sophomore in high school, long, long life ahead of them, to your point of having to rely on math, that maybe they haven't built those skills because they haven't built the confidence that they too can be good at it. Am I? Am I getting that

Kathy Meyers: 5:55

right? Absolutely, it's I feel like it's all about confidence and about like me as their teacher, instilling a safe place for them to learn and grow and have a growth mindset and fail easily, like, if I just feel like that's a huge part of learning is, is it not going well? And then, hey, try again, right?

Matt Kirchner: 6:11

What's the experience like for a student? So I'm a student that, here I am, let's just say I'm you're teaching freshman, sophomore, juniors, what? What you're primarily those, yeah, sophomores, yeah. Okay, so we're teaching sophomores. I'm a high school sophomore. I get into Kathy's class, and I'm that student that says I just I've struggled with math. I've never quite gotten it, and it's getting harder and harder. What's the experience like for that student? How are you working with that student in a way that would be different from a traditional classroom, right?

Kathy Meyers: 6:39

My day one to them is, I tell them that I'm their cheerleader, like, I'm here to support you however you need me, right? Like, I mean, I brought I have a pom pom, like, I simply pull it out the first day, and I'm like, I'm your cheerleader, you guys. I'm just here to facilitate however you need me to be your teacher this year. I don't know what that means for you, but I'm gonna put the work in as your teacher, and I expect you to put the work in, and I keep trying, like, I'm going to try to give you a place to feel safe and to feel like you can ask the questions that you can be supported when it doesn't go well. Like I want everybody to try, and we're going to have a lot of wrong answers, and then we'll try to figure out how to get to the right one. That's what I feel like my job is as their teacher is to really try to believe in them and try to give them some hope. I guess it goes back to self talk. First what I teach in sports psychology, one of the number one things I teach in sports psychology is how we talk to ourselves. Yeah,

Matt Kirchner: 7:34

so go deeper on that. I'm a huge believer, by the way, in what you're saying. I mean, I you know, things like mental health are real things depression, they're real things. You know, I'm not making light of any of that, of course, but so much of having kind of this happy, successful, you know, content life is kind of how we run our brains and how we think about things. And so talk a little bit more about that self talk and how students can reinforce positive and, for that matter, negative behaviors by what they're saying in their head. And

Kathy Meyers: 7:59

I do a whole bunch of topics in sports psychology, but I start, I make sure I keep going back to self talk, because I feel like we can either sabotage ourself and go down. I'm stupid, I'm dumb, I'm I'm not adequate. I can't do it. I just I'm gonna quit, or we can say I'm awesome. I can find the right people to help me. I can keep trying. I can do a little part of it. Maybe I understand this part, but I don't understand this part, but I don't understand this part. Breaking the problem down is super valuable for kids that are getting overwhelmed by something that looks big to them. When I hear kids talking negative, I'm like, Okay, wait, you can do this. I can help you together, you and I can figure this out. But we set ourselves up to fail miserably when we're telling ourselves we're not adequate, sure, and we're not enough, or we're not I don't work hard enough. I don't stuff like that, you know. And, and how I teach self talk in sports Psych is I teach it like we're the gatekeeper in our head. Like, if you ever been to I have a neighborhood and in my city that there's a gate, and there's a guy that sits at the little house, and you drive up to it, and I don't live there, but my daughter went to a friend's house, and the guy asked me where I'm going, and I tell him, and I guess he believed me, and he lets me in, right? But the gatekeeper doesn't have to let you in. They can say, Nope, you're you're not coming in, right? And it's like, that's how we have to be in our minds, is we have to be the gatekeeper, like, when the negative starts sneaking in, like, I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not adequate, I'm not confident. We gotta stop it. Sports Psychology says, like, You should do something physical, like, when you see the negatives coming in, you, like, snap your fingers and that goes, Oh yeah, I gotta be positive, right? Really? Like, we have to be so strong in our minds and go, Oh, stop. I can't that's not helping me succeed. That negative self talk doesn't help me be awesome. It's gonna take me on a bad course.

Matt Kirchner: 9:51

Does the opposite, right? It reinforces those negative behaviors and those negative thoughts,

Kathy Meyers: 9:55

right? Yeah, I'm too dumb to learn math like that's not I want anybody to believe when they're 15. Yeah? Every

Matt Kirchner: 10:00

once while, somebody in the in the studios of The TechEd Podcast, unintentional on my part, will hear me mutter to myself, I'm a genius, or, Wow, am I brilliant. And it's exactly, it's exactly the opposite. And it's not, it's not my ego alive and well, necessarily, it's the it is. You know, you, the more of those messages that you send to yourself, the more you're positioning yourself to live out those behaviors, and it becomes a cycle. Right? Absolutely, the more you reinforce those things, whether positive or negative, the more you replay those things over and over in your brain, the more likely you are to end up in a situation where you're creating your own reality in your own future, and overcome obstacles in a lot of ways, based upon how you're thinking, you can create those negative outcomes as well. So it sounds like we're really, really aligned in terms of that line of thinking. So it's one thing certainly important to snap your fingers, be your gatekeeper, put up the stop sign, tell that mental image or that thought to go away. But then you got to discipline yourself to think about something that that's opposite, right? That's going to take you in the right direction. So, so what happens in that regard, right?

Kathy Meyers: 11:00

So then I feel like, you know, the positive self talk, and I have this, like hitting head, where you have all the negative things, and then you're like, what are the Just One things? Usually it's like, task oriented with a sport. I coach softball team here too, and if you, like, snap your wrist at the end, what is the technique that I should do to make this happen? I feel like oriented on the task or self talk. You know, for batters getting up to bat, the big thing is to strike out. But you don't want to say strike out in your head. You want to say quick hands or see it, hit it or drive through the ball. You want that positive message to replace that, like positive affirmations, right? And there's all sorts of ones in math that I've put together, and I've had kids come up with them too. Like, their kids are so smart and amazing. Like, I'm smart, I can try harder. I could just try a little longer. Sometimes you just need to put in a little more time or a different method. Like I talked to you about, I teach Sudoku, and there's so many different methods for solving Sudoku that, okay, just try a different way. That way is not working out. So try a new way. There's all sorts of new ways, and that's advantageous to all of us. Oh, this isn't working out. I gotta try something new. Like, I'm not gonna keep hitting my head against the wall and it not going well. I gotta try something new.

Matt Kirchner: 12:13

So you're actually teaching Sudoku in the class. Tell me about that. I always start

Kathy Meyers: 12:17

my class with that. And you guys know Sudoku most math people do, or STEM people do, right? Sure? Yeah, I know for sure. I know it absolutely anyway. But Sudoku, you know, there's a bunch of methods for solving them. Like you can either, like, figure out all the numbers in a column, or all the numbers in a row. Or you can do like, the box and figure out numbers that goes in that box. Or every Sudoku, regular Sudoku, anyway, you know every number has nine, so there's, there's those four strategies. And so I teach them how to do Sudoku, and I teach them strategies, and I teach them one thing about it is, like, you should always use pencil so you can race and and make sure you don't put a number where it doesn't belong. Don't guess, like you have to logic it out in your mind. You have to do process of elimination, or you have to make sure you can say why the number goes into place, right? So then we start, like, doing it, and you get stuck, like you get stuck with two numbers, and you can guess, but, you know, that's a rule, you can't guess so. So when I get stuck, I I'm like, Okay, what do you do next guys? And I just feel like they keep saying, try another way, like, try a different method. Like, try the box way. Try how many numbers in the thing? Like, what one has the most numbers? Maybe you could figure out with all the threes, find all nine threes in the box. So I just don't want kids to quit, you know, like, that's the message here. Like, don't quit when it gets hard. When it gets hard is when we should dig in and go, oh, there should be another way. I'm smart. I can figure this out. I can I can work on this. I can have a new something new could come maybe. So I feel like that's how Sudoku is so valuable, way of teaching kids to problem solve, because math is just problem solving,

Matt Kirchner: 13:58

sure, problem solving, hitting a wall, finding another way, and to your point, not guessing which can create problems down the road, right? I mean, as soon as you guess, if you guess wrong, you could get a long way down a puzzle and then realize that you made a mistake. So you have to make sure that you're solving it with logic, not to and so it really sounds like that that process really sets the tone for what they're going to do in the rest of the class, which obviously includes a lot of problem solving, includes a lot of math, also includes things like leadership and teamwork and and public speaking, which you you wouldn't necessarily maybe think would belong or would be common in this type of coursework. So tell me about why it's so important to teach those as well.

Kathy Meyers: 14:34

Yeah, leadership and teamwork, leadership. You know, I just teach kids that even though you don't wear the captain band and you're the captain of the team. Like you're gonna have places in your life that you're gonna lead. Maybe it's in your family. Maybe it's even in this classroom, like, when I'm the teacher trying to get get control of 36 kids, you know, I have, like, I'm in Utah, I have a lot of kids in my classes, right? And, you know, some of the kids can help me be the leaders, to calm people down and and get. Both motivated and focused and in that realm. So there's just lots of ways where leaders, and it usually is just about respect and about putting in extra time and effort. Leaders show up early, they stay late, they do the extra things. And, you know, with leadership in stem like, Oh, I could do the extra things to do better at this math class or this test or whatever's next, what's what's the extra thing, right? Teamwork. I always talk about big team, little me and the whole plan of the team is sort of bigger than just me alone, but it also means that I don't want to shrink. I want to shine and give my talents and gifts to the situation, whether it's a classroom, whether it's a sports field, that I need to give my gifts and talents, and I want everybody else to bring their best selves too. It's not really me competing against you. When we're on a team like you bring your best self. I'll bring my best self, and everybody brings their best stuff, and we're gonna make an awesome, amazing product, right? But I feel like sometimes when there's one leader, you know, even like, I'm the coach of the softball team, yeah, my ideas are valuable, but so are everybody else's ideas. Like I need them. My I have four coaches I'm working with, and I need them to bring their best talents and best ideas to my team to make all these girls have a great experience. That's my goal.

Matt Kirchner: 16:20

I was listening to a presentation last week where somebody said, when I go alone, I go fast. When I go with others, we go far. And I thought that was a really interesting way of looking at teamwork. So certainly understand the value of teaching it and the fact that you're teaching it is amazing. What are some of the strategies you use to impart those lessons to your students? Well,

Kathy Meyers: 16:37

in sports, take we actually play a game, and then they come up with ideas of what makes a good team, like I put them in groups of four and give them some what is big team, little mean. What does that even mean? How do you use it in your job? How do you use it in this classroom? How do you use it at your work? And so they give examples of how they can play their role at their job, or they can, you know, play their role in their family, like everybody you know has these parts of their lives that we are. We're Team of and I'm a team in my softball team, but I'm a team when I'm the teacher in my classroom, like we're all a team together. And if there's a bunch of people not on board, then we got to figure out how to motivate them and get them on board and have them bring their best, best talents and gifts, or, you know, they're not going to contribute, and we need their ideas, because everybody's ideas are valuable.

Matt Kirchner: 17:29

Absolutely So teaching, teaching those students that maybe aren't completely on board, to refocus, to look at their learning in a different way. I know that refocusing is something that you teach in the classroom along with goal setting. And you know what you say is playing to win, not playing not to lose, yeah, which we've all met, many of us, I certainly have heard that in a sports setting, you want to play to win, you don't want to play not to lose, right? How do you take those types of lessons and then make them apply to kind of the greater process of going through life here on the planet Earth? Right?

Kathy Meyers: 17:59

Play to win. It's an awesome concept, but it's mostly about like, having a game plan and being aggressive and taking risks. I'm not saying like, dangerous risks, like Squirrel Suit jumping off, you know, stuff like that. I'm just taking maybe risks in business, maybe risks at your job, maybe, you know for sure, risk in sport, where I'm gonna steal the base I'm gonna take that risk I might get out might fail. I feel like when we take risks, we fail a lot, but you might never get ahead if you don't take that risk, and you don't take that jump leap of faith to the next level of of trying or being assertive and meeting new people or getting out of your comfort zone. I feel like you know playing to win is getting out of your comfort zone and really trying new things that could be advantageous to you?

Matt Kirchner: 18:43

Yeah, I think about my football fan. I'm a sports fan in general, but, you know, I think about football, and we used to joke about the prevent defense, right? I mean putting your deep backs in your corners and your, you know, your safety is way, way back off of the receivers to kind of prevent the big play holding them off. Yeah, the prevent defense was, was one way of preventing your team to win, from winning, right? I mean, you're, you're playing not to lose, right? Yeah, yeah. You're running the ball the whole fourth quarter because you've got a, you know, you've got a 10 point lead and and you're trying to protect that lead, and then the other team comes back and scores two touchdowns and takes that Victoria away from you. So that's playing not to lose and playing to win is, look, yeah, and I'm going to be sensible, I'm not going to take crazy risk, but let's play this game to win. Let's, let's be aggressive. Let's keep pushing and taking that lesson, then into into students life. So tell us a little bit then about, you know, some we were talking about this on the lift, right? You were like, Oh, it's just so rewarding. I have students that come back once they're, you know, whatever they're doing after high school, going into, you know, post secondary education, going into the workforce, and coming back and saying, Oh, my goodness, I learned this lesson, and it applied so far outside of what we did in the classroom. Do you have any great stories about that that'll resonate with the audience?

Kathy Meyers: 19:50

Yeah, I was thinking about some. I have some kids that like go and get jobs later. Every you need to go figure out how to employ themselves, right? And we practice job interview questions and. A big part of sports psychology is preparing well, like, it's one of your controllables. Like, I can prepare for things. I can prepare for the math test. I can practice those things. And he came back a couple days later, like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad we practiced that in class, because I was so familiar with the questions, and I had so much confidence because I prepared well, and I practice it out, and I thought through it in my mind. And anyway, that was cool. And I just had to yesterday, I had a biker. He's in Puerto Rico, racing mountain bikes, and and he sent me a text. He's like, I'm racing tomorrow. Give me some tips. What do you think? And so I just told him, make sure you practice the technical parts. I'm a mountain biker. And so there's technical parts where you know, if you practice them, like imagery, even in your mind, just practice so many times in your mind that it feels comfortable to you. And that's sure, that's the parts where other people will slip up. There's this cool part. It's a Japanese word called kaizen. It's about practicing our weaknesses and and I feel like, you know, we don't want to practice our weaknesses because we don't understand them. We it's hard for us, it's embarrassing to practice our weaknesses. But I had, I have this mom that's so awesome, and she's a fantastic teacher, and she I was playing the piano growing up as a kid, and she would be in the kitchen listening, and she's like, you know, that one part that's not very good. Practice that part 20 times and say, there I am, and, but that's the hard part. So I didn't really want to practice it, but, but I did, and I'd practice that hard part really a whole bunch. And then she's like, when you practice the hard part, then the whole thing sounds good. And I feel like, as a math teacher, like, when I get about the study guide, if I say, okay, don't do any of the stuff you know, only do the hard parts and do the hard parts and practice and practice and practice them. And if you can't do the hard parts, I'm here to help you. I'm your helper, right? And I'm your cheerleader. But learn how to do the things you don't know, because when you understand those, the whole test will go well for you, because you already know the other stuff. But human nature, we all practice the things we're good at because it feels good and it makes us happy. Like, Oh, good. I'm good at this. I'm good at something, right? So it feels good to be good at something. And the hard things, we don't know how to really like deal with them. And so I feel like, when we can figure out how to deal with those hard things and have other methods, like the Sudoku. I'm going to try this other method that might help me with the hard thing, or I'm going to get a teacher that can help me and be patient, or I'm going to do Khan Academy. Or we got Google. Like, I didn't have Google, I was taking math, right college, for sure,

Matt Kirchner: 22:35

yeah, there was no YouTube to watch somebody do the do the

Kathy Meyers: 22:39

math videos. Like, there's no excuse for these kids to not learn. I'm like, Come on, guys, you got absolutely

Matt Kirchner: 22:44

we'll make sure and link up that channel in the in the show notes, for the audience, if they want to, they want to check that out. I didn't know you were a mountain biker. I love that. Amazing. How many people get into skiing and mountain biking? Probably a lot of the same, you know, the same personality traits and kind of thrill seeking, right? I love mountain biking. In fact, my favorite place to mountain bike is probably three hours or so southeast of you in in more. So love that whole area and it, you know, some, just some interesting examples that are resonating with me as you're going through that. The first one is, and we have great mountain biking, believe it or not, in the Midwest. And about an hour from where I live, the Emma Carlin trail is some of the best mountain biking anywhere in the Midwest. And used to ride that a lot. Yes, it's awesome, but used to ride that. It's different style mountain biking, right? You're not on a on a trail like you would be in the in the West. You're on a, you know, it's a lot of dirt, it's sand, it's, you know, what have you, not a lot of slick rock, but, but, but awesome mountain biking. And you'll see the the riders that are really good, like, if you're doing a technical climb on a mountain bike, and all of a sudden, you know, you lose your balance a little bit. Put a foot down, stop. You don't have any momentum. You know, probably nine out of 10 bikers just push their bike up to the top of whatever, get off going. And it's that one out of 10 that turns around and goes back to the bottom, says, I'm gonna try that again. Those are the really, really good riders, you know, they're taking the hard part, they're doing the part that they're struggling with, and they're practicing that over and over and over again, just like the example from the the piano piece that you can't play. So love that example, the other one. And I actually write a magazine column every month. I've been toying with an idea. You know, when I'm teaching people how to ride a mountain bike, everybody wants to look at, you know, like, what's right in front of my wheel, right what's right in front of my wheel. And if you do that, guaranteed you're running into something, or you're running off the trail. Or they, like, pick the thing they want to avoid, and they stare at it, and then they run right into it. And so though, yeah, the whole logical psychology and mountain biking is looking down the trail, looking at what's ahead of you, and, you know, like, 1020, feet, and your your body in your muscle memory, you'll take care of the rest, right? It'll steer you through that stuff. You don't have to look right at it. There's a huge life lesson kind of buried in there somewhere as well, right? Like, for goal setting, or like, look ahead. Like, there's this part in Draper where it's a practicing and they have all these signs, and one of them is, look ahead, pick a path. And I feel like every time I pick my. Is up and go, oh yeah, I got this. My body knows how to do this and and it's so great. And I feel like it's goal setting. And my favorite quote about goal setting is from Rudy at the movie. Rudy, we know that I

Unknown: 25:11

short noise for sure. Of course. Yeah, absolutely. He says,

Kathy Meyers: 25:16

dreams are what make life tolerable. And I just like, we have to have goals. And, you know, I teach writing them down and put them in your mirror where you brush your teeth, because everybody brushes their teeth, right? And, you know, and write those goals down and look at them and look ahead in your life, and, you know, go, be awesome. Like, just, I have this sign says, Go, be great. And I just really want kids to, like, believe they can do things and not if I get to the hard things, that there's lots of ways around the hard things and through, and there's people on the earth to help you, and they're putting your path for sure, too. So

Matt Kirchner: 25:52

my favorite reading is Malcolm Gladwell, who talks about the people that face the most hurdles while they're going through, you know, while they're going through their younger life, sometimes end up being the best leaders when they get to their adult life, because they get so good at getting going around, over, through the challenges that are in front of them, that when they you know, as if you have those challenges during your you know during your pathway, whatever that is, through education, then when you get to adulthood, you're way more adept at navigating some of those hurdles. And so much of what you're doing is kind of right along those lines. So one of those hurdles is this whole idea of math anxiety, which I'll be honest with you, I didn't even know was a thing. What is math anxiety? And how do you tell your How do you teach your students to to get past it and to handle right? I

Kathy Meyers: 26:31

think it's just the the social even our whole society is like, oh, math is too hard. It's, it's way above my pay grade. I'm I can't do that. I think we talk ourselves out of it the first time it gets hard and we don't remember that. Oh yeah, there's another way. There's another method. Like, maybe they haven't had a positive environment to learn in. Like, one of my jobs is be really patient with meth anxiety and kind and caring. Like they know that I want them to learn and I want them to get through this obstacle. And I feel like that's why you have teachers, right? I know people can all do online school and other kinds of of options, but that's why they have me, right? That's because I'm going to love them through it and and care about them in this moment. I can't do it. I can't do it. And I feel like, with meth anxiety, you can change that self talk to I got this, I'm awesome. I have this big sign at the front of my class that says, You got this. And some days, you know, I get, I get to work every morning at seven, and I coach a softball team, and I'm not home till like nine o'clock at night sometimes, and and signs up there for me, I got this, like, I can go be positive with these kids, and I can go love them and and help them learn today and and be patient with them. But I feel like if every time it gets hard, we go, Oh, you got this. Okay, I just have to try a new method. Back to Sudoku, coming back around to that don't just don't quit. I mean, that's just my message to 15 year olds and and everybody else is like, when it gets tough, like that's when we should dig in more and find a new method and find a bet, you know, maybe it's other people to surround ourselves with for a minute. Maybe, like, there's lots of avenues that you maybe have to change if you're gonna move through that hard thing, right?

Matt Kirchner: 28:11

Well, and I think there's a really good message about the value of teachers, especially in this age of technology, that was embedded in that, that last answer that you offered, Kathy and hey, there's, a there's a lot of anxiety, speaking of anxiety and education right now about, you know, the advent of technology, the ability to use data to predict a student's outcomes, to rearrange, you know, course sequences, or their path through education, to guarantee, or at least to give us the best chance at an outcome. One that's kind of been bouncing around in my head is with all the things that AI and machine learning can do, what can AI and machine learning not do? And I think you just touched on one of the really important parts of that. You know, there's some, some study I read about a year ago that said that a six month old cat has more emotional intelligence than chat GPT does. A six month old cat can read your emotions and respond to your emotions better than than generative artificial intelligence. And so, you know, you think about the value of a teacher, the ability to not just usher a student through their education pathway, but to, you know, as we say, oftentimes, to pull them when they need to be pulled, to push them when they need to be pushed, to hug them when they need a hug, figuratively, at least. And then to you know, to have the wisdom to know which to do when, which really is kind of an example, I think of the incredible value that teachers are going to have that in as much as we can use technology and we can use YouTube and we can use Google to sharpen our skills and to learn things we didn't know. In the end, the good teachers that both embrace technology and continue with that, that incredible empathy for their students, and the ability to relate to a student and push, pull, hug when they need to be push, pulled and hugged. Really, really important. Do you see it the same way as we kind of looked at the future of education? Absolutely.

Kathy Meyers: 29:54

I mean, the math anxiety. I don't think that goes away with AI. I think it goes away. With somebody giving you some confidence and changing your path a little bit and saying, Maybe you should look at it a little bit different. Maybe you don't really have math anxiety. Maybe this one part's just hard for you. You know, the whole thing's not hard for you. Look at you got and I feel like the perfectionist, like they struggle because, you know, you got eight out of 10. And like, I got two wrong. I'm like, Well, you got eight right. It's right, exactly an optimist and a pessimist. Like, maybe you see it. This is how I want as your teacher, I want you to see it. Like, look at all the stuff you did. Well, okay, you just did a little bit of math wrong. You should, you shouldn't think you're a dummy at math. And the kids keep putting things like, I'm so stupid. I'm like, Nope, you're smart, you're really brave, and we fail sometimes when we're we're doing hard things, and failing is part of learning, like you learn all the lessons when you're failing, right? That's the story of competence.

Matt Kirchner: 30:51

Yeah, I learned a lot in high school because I failed all the time, right? I mean, eight and eight, 810, right? For me, would have been, like, a record strong performance. So that wouldn't be anxiety, that's right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, I survived my high school journey, and we talked about that quite a bit on the on the podcast, but, but probably could have used a lot more. Kathy Myers type teachers, and I had some great ones. Not to make light of my educational journey, but I love the way that you're approaching some of these things. I got to believe, Kathy, you've got advice for other teachers who are thinking about this as well. So we've got this whole idea of sports psychology, of positive self talk, of reinforcing those messages inside of our brains, of manifesting that into performance, inside and outside the classroom. If I'm a teacher and I'm interested in taking some of the lessons that you've learned through your sports psychology journey, and you both formal education and application in the classroom. What advice would you have for those teachers who are trying to figure this out?

Kathy Meyers: 31:45

I feel like, as a teacher, we can change the world, and I know I've changed a lot of students over my 31 years of teaching, and because I see them in my neighborhood and they're like, oh my gosh, you're my favorite teacher. And I was just opening the book, The Sean acre book about he does all the research. Sean acre, he does a lot of research on positive psychology, and I just was opening my book, and I had a thank you letter in it said, you actually made math fun for me. You made me love it. And really, that's, that's where we're better than AI, where we can bring the fun and the motivation. And I reached out to all the parents, because I knew this parent teacher conference was coming up, I'm like, hey, just wondered how you use math in your everyday life, whether you're a stay at home parent or you're a CEO of a major company, we use do a short video so I can show it to my class and parents like, this is so cool. I'd love to tell my kids why I do math. And had hair dressers say, Oh, I mix chemicals all day long. And you know, people that you don't even think use math, that really use math all the time. Absolutely, I feel like, like, I'm the motive as a teacher, you're the motivator. You're whatever energy you bring every day, kids feed off it. And so if I bring positive, like, exciting energy, then kids, like, fill it, right? They feed off that. And if I bring, like, mopey, boo, hum, bug me. It's the same. They feed off it. Yeah, it's contagious. They would say, what's wrong? Why are you okay today? Because kids are awesome. They feel you. They they see you. You know, I'm halfway through my year. They get to know you. And I feel that. I feel that in my own life, every day, I want to try to bring my best self to them, like, that's my goal as a teacher. And someday your best self is rough, like you're like, Okay, I gotta cheer myself on. I gotta be my own cheerleader and my own self taught to, like, pump myself, sure, right? And I shouldn't expect other people to do that, right? But I gotta pump myself up, and now I gotta go take my my job seriously, right? Right?

Matt Kirchner: 33:36

Absolutely. I once had a person, this is several companies ago. We were kind of talking about, like, your mood when you come to work and so on and so to your point, some people are mopey. Some people are really down. And I always try to be super upbeat. And if somebody asked me how I doing, I'm telling my awesome or amazing, or things are going great, or whatever, somebody at work one time said, you know, it's really annoying when you do that, like the rest of us are kind of just getting going, and you're like, all bubbly and happy at work, and she's like, it's actually kind of annoying. And I'm like, well, sorry that that's annoying, but I'm not changing it, because that's just a it's a great way to reinforce with yourself, even on those days, and I don't have many of them, but even on those days when maybe you don't quite feel like you're your best self, just telling yourself you are and putting yourself in the mode, and sure enough, an hour later, it's like you forgot about oil was ever weighing on you? And you're you're often into your into your day. So I think that's great advice for for educators is, you know, be your best self, stay positive, set the tone for your classroom and and then get those really heartwarming notes from you know. So that teaching for 31 years, students that were sophomores in high school when you started are now, what well into their I guess, into their mid 40s, right? I mean, so do you still hear from

Kathy Meyers: 34:44

those students sometimes? Like, I was actually at a in our city I live in Draper there was a parade and there was a girl riding a horse, and she saw me in the parade. I was just like, on the sidelines with my children, and she's like Myers, oh my goodness, you're my favorite teacher ever. I need to come talk to. After the parade, so stay right there and just feel like it's such a like payback moment where, like, oh, I made a difference in someone's life. And that's really why I got into teaching a long time ago, because I wanted to help people, especially with math. I was always pretty good at math, but I wasn't some Brainiac, and so I worked hard at it. Everybody can do math. Like, that's my message. And stem stuff, like math is like that basis of a lot of STEM everyone can do it. And we as teachers should not be putting kids in boxes saying, Nope, don't be doing anything math related, because, you know, we need to be right. Their best cheerleader and their best like, you can do this is get the people around you work your hardest. You're going to maybe have to work way harder than the kids sitting next to you, but that's okay, hard work valuable? Yeah, hard work is, is where we learn lots of the lessons of life. I actually

Matt Kirchner: 35:49

had a teacher after my freshman year of high school tell me that I wasn't good at math, and I should, and I should choose a career that didn't require it, but I did get myself on the right track. Ended up, you know, early in my career before doing the stuff I'm doing now, I got my CPA, and I was working in public accounting, and that was the student, by the way, that after his freshman year of high school, the teacher said you should do something that doesn't involve numbers. I'm like, Well, that didn't work out so well for him, but it worked out pretty well, pretty well for me. Speaking of things working out pretty well, obviously your education pathway has put you on a great trajectory to your earlier point, having these students, 31 years later, coming and saying you were my favorite teacher, you had an impact on my life. And think about how many times that based evidence, over and over and over again, as that person lives out their life, that's why people like you get into teaching, or at least it should be, is to change the lives of students, and I think that's probably the motivation for most people that find their way into education and choose that as a career, as you kind of reflect back on your education journey, Kathy both in terms of being a student and now for 31 years in the classroom, you know what's something that you believe about education that very few people would necessarily see the same way. Keep

Kathy Meyers: 36:59

believing in the underdog. Really get to know kids and try to figure out what makes them tick, so that that you can be that person to help them through that hard path right now, right? So not

Matt Kirchner: 37:10

just focusing on your high flyers and on those students that have it all figured out and they're doing amazing, but maybe that one that is laying a little bit behind

Kathy Meyers: 37:18

and the high flyers like, keep flying high. Like, let's keep motivating you. I'll tell you harder things to do, because I want you to succeed too. That's the hard thing with so many kids in our classroom, is try to help all of them, right? Just make sure you're helping the underdog. Like, I believe in that for sure and and positive, positive, positive mindset. Sometimes, with the mindset, you have to fake it till you make it like sometimes you're really having a bad day, and I still got to show up to work and I'm gonna just cheer leading myself. And that's a real thing that you when you keep talking positive to yourself and bringing optimism and hope that your brain creates neural pathways. This is psychology of it of much more positivity and much more happiness in your life and success and like, that's all the positive psychology, cool stuff that I believe in that so much. And I don't, maybe other people believe in that, but I, for sure believe in that.

Matt Kirchner: 38:10

I'm not sure everybody does. I'm a huge believer in it. I mean, a lot of, a lot of the things that I'm hearing from you, you know, at least in my life, have their roots and stuff I've read from people like, you know, Anthony Robbins, certainly huge, huge into, you know, positive self thinking. Napoleon Hill, uh, Norman Vincent, Peale, I mean, you know, all of these, all the writers that, in some cases, are decades and decades old. But that's the message, right? I mean, take it till you make it whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Is one of my favorite ones. It's just all about believing in yourself and right, and being able to create that future and over, over the course of time, it becomes a habit. You start to wire your your brain in that particular way, and it just becomes, it repeats itself over and over and over again. So really, really good way of looking at the education journey. The value of a teacher, you know, finding that underdog, taking that person under your wing, showing them how they can be something. And those are really the teachers that make the biggest difference in my in my opinion, it's not necessarily the one that had the perfect curriculum or the best way of teaching, fill in the blank or whatever. It's the one that really took a personal interest in a student showed them they had a skill or an ability they didn't know they had put their life on a career or, you know, personal pathway that they never would have been on without that individual. It really is the magic and the huge value of teaching. We've got just one time for one last question here with Kathy Myers, and that question for you, Kathy, is to go back in time. So let's turn the clock back to that 15 year old Kathy. And if you could give that person any advice, what would that advice be?

Kathy Meyers: 39:38

Believe in your dreams, have dreams, and then do everything you can to accomplish them and fight for it and keep learning every day of your life. I teach kids to set goals in sports psychology, and we set goals just for, like, the quarter, which is 10 weeks, and I'm 54 and I'm like, I need to set a new goal. We should never quit setting. Goals, we should never quit growing and learning. That's what I'd say to myself. You know, keep believing and try to stay optimistic. When the whole world can be pessimistic, and maybe people around you can be pessimistic, you can still change the whole tone because of your energy and your love and your goodness, you give or your motivation, you give to other people.

Matt Kirchner: 40:22

Absolutely could not agree more. So be a lifelong goal setter. Be a lifelong learner. Whether you're 15 years old or 54 keep putting those goals out in front of you. I'm glad we set a goal of having Kathy on the podcast after we met that day on the chair lift in Sun Valley Idaho. Just a really, really inspiring message about how we can change the world of education through positive thinking, positive reinforcement, sports psychology, thinking about our problems the right way, getting over the whole idea of math anxiety. Anybody can be good at math, they just have to have the right mindset and the right teacher. In a lot of cases, in your case, Kathy, doing great things in the classroom. So thank you so much for being with us. We really had a good time having this conversation. Enjoyed having you on the podcast. Thank you. I appreciate it so much, and we appreciate our audience being with us as well here on The TechEd Podcast, Kathy mentioned the YouTube channel that she's got for some of her content. She also mentioned some books, as did I will link all that up in the show notes for this week's episode. You will find those show notes at TechEd podcast.com/myers, that's TechEd podcast.com/m. E, y, E, R, S, when you're done there on the show notes, be sure to check us out on social media. We are all over social we would love to hear from you, and until next week on The TechEd Podcast. My name is Matt Fricker. Thank you for being with us. You