Moving from “Just-in-Case” Education to a Demand-Driven, Industry-Led Model — Paul Lavoie, VP of the University of New Haven

Higher education can’t keep teaching “just in case” knowledge. In an era where technology evolves faster than curriculum, universities must align directly with industry needs — and that’s exactly what Paul Lavoie is doing at the University of New Haven.

In this episode of The TechEd Podcast, host Matt Kirchner sits down with Paul, the university’s Vice President of Innovation and Applied Technology and former Chief Manufacturing Officer for the State of Connecticut. Together, they explore what it means to build higher education that works like industry: agile, applied, and focused on real development rather than theory.

From the creation of the new Center for Innovation and Applied Technology to rethinking how students, employers, and universities collaborate, Lavoie shares a bold vision for transforming education into an engine for workforce growth and innovation that doesn't require reinventing the wheel.

In this episode:

• Why “just-in-case” education no longer delivers ROI for students or employers
• What happens when universities start acting like R&D partners instead of ivory towers
• Why educators need to stop reinventing solutions when proven models already exist
• Why every institution of education should be clear on its unique value prop
• How the University of New Haven is creating students who are “better than ready” for the future of work

3 Big Takeaways from this Episode:

1. Higher education must shift from “just-in-case” to demand-driven, industry-led learning. Paul Lavoie argues that curriculum taught “just in case” students might need it no longer delivers value. Instead, universities must align programs with real industry demand and measurable workforce outcomes.

2. Education must stop reinventing the wheel and instead, leverage proven models to solve common problems. Too often, educators spend time rebuilding solutions that already exist instead of adopting proven models. By learning from industry and collaborating across institutions and states, schools can accelerate innovation and maximize impact.

3. The new Center for Innovation and Applied Technology is a unique focus on the development side of R&D, using students to solve business problems. This hands-on R&D hub is designed to give students real-world experience in advanced manufacturing, robotics, AI, cybersecurity and other emerging tech. But instead of researching these technologies, students will be applying them to solve real challenges faced by industry partners.

Resources in this Episode:

• Learn more about the University of New Haven's Center for Innovation and Applied Technology
• National Center for Next Gen Manufacturing

Find more on the episode page! https://techedpodcast.com/lavoie/

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Transcript

TechEd Podcast Introduction: 0:10

This is the TechEd podcast, where we feature leaders who are shaping, innovating and disrupting technical education and the workforce. These are the stories of organizations leading the charge to change education, to rethink the workforce and to embrace emerging technology. You'll find us here every Tuesday on our mission to secure the American Dream for the next generation of STEM and workforce talent. And now here's your host, Matt Kirchner.

Matt Kirchner: 0:38

It's Matt Kirchner on the TechEd podcast, the number one podcast in STEM and technical education, one of the top globally, top technology podcasts. We are literally ranked in the top 1% of 1% of technology podcasts almost every single week. This episode is going to be no exception, because we've just got a tremendous guest joining us today to talk about disruption in education and elsewhere. Every once in a while, I hear a speaker, I go to a conference, I'm at an event, and I hear somebody talking about disruption in education, and I'm like, oh my goodness, our audience needs to hear this message. This is exactly that kind of a presentation that that kind of an episode. I was at an event in Detroit, Michigan, not too long ago, and today's guest was one of the keynote speakers. As a matter of fact, I keynote the first day of the conference, and today's guest keynoted the second day, and he was just an awesome, fully energetic, excellent person to kick off that particular conference. And so it's my great pleasure, actually, to welcome to the studio of the TechEd podcast this week. Paul Lavoie Paul is the vice president of innovation and Applied Technology at the University of New Haven. We are going to learn all about that job. We are going to learn all about his institution and all about disrupting higher education. Paul, awesome to have you on and thanks for

Paul Lavoie: 1:51

joining us. Matt, thank you. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today, and I can tell you

Matt Kirchner: 1:56

that it is going to be a great conversation, just having heard you speak and hearing your message, we're really like minded in a lot of ways. I know there's just a tremendous amount that I and our audience can learn from you. So looking forward to getting into that. I'll tell you the first thing that caught my attention being, by the way, somebody who worked in manufacturing for almost my whole career and had numerous different titles in manufacturing organizations, you were introduced as your role prior to the one you're in now, as the chief manufacturing officer. Okay, so we've heard that title from time to time, Chief manufacturing Officer of Connecticut, the entire of Connecticut. I just thought that was really, really cool. So let's, let's start with that role, if you don't mind it as a way of setting up some of the conversation here today, what is somebody in a role like chief manufacturing Officer of an entire state? What is that job?

Paul Lavoie: 2:46

Yeah, that's great question. Matt, Connecticut's the only state that has this role, and the role was created by industry. Industry had had lobbied the legislature and lobbied the governor to have to have somebody at the highest levels of government to represent the manufacturing sector in the state of Connecticut. You know, Connecticut's the 48th largest state, 5445 square miles. There's 4800 manufacturers. So it is a it is a vital part of the economy. And so in 2019 the governor created a chief manufacturing officer position appointed by the governor, and the position was designed to support and grow the manufacturing sector. I was the second chief manufacturing officer. Colin Cooper served as the first, and I was appointed in February of 2022, and served recently until July of this year, as Connecticut's second chief manufacturing officer. And the governor just announced the third chief manufacturing officer, kurti Patel. So it's a position that has shown tremendous value for the state and for the manufacturing companies in the state. And the job is essentially Connecticut has written in its statute a Manufacturing Innovation Fund, which is a fund that's used to support and grow the manufacturing sector. And the chief manufacturing officer is the chair of that fund. So it really is the chief manufacturing officer's job is to author the strategic plan for manufacturing in the state of Connecticut, and then to implement programs that support that strategic plan. And the strategic plan pillars are to drive innovation, build sustainable companies, develop talent and improve collaboration. And so it was really running programs in those areas all designed around uplifting manufacturing. And then the second part of the role was, you know, anybody, any manufacturer, had an issue with anything that had to do with state government, they could pick up the phone and call me, and I'd concierge it for them. So, you know, we're, we're all we like to call Connecticut a one call state. You're only one call away from the governor and and we gave manufacturers that ability to have somebody in government that really cared about their business and really cared about their success.

Matt Kirchner: 4:48

I just, I love that concept, right? There's so much of you think about 4800 manufacturers in a state like Connecticut. And I actually it's been a few years, but it's spent some time around the manufacturing culture. There several years. Years ago, I was in a project around electromagnetic locks, of all things, and for whatever reason, Hartford, Connecticut, at the time, was kind of a destination for all of that technology and all that innovation. So got to see the innovation in that space, in your home state, really, really impressive. And this whole idea of having a chief manufacturing officer as we record this, we're just kind of spooling up our gubernatorial primaries in my home state of Wisconsin. I think all the states across the nation could benefit from this kind of thinking. And regardless of who our next governor is, Matt Kirkner is putting his hand up for the chief manufacturing officer of the state of Wisconsin. That is a really, really cool, really, really cool job. You know, speaking of cool jobs, you're into some great things now. As the VP of innovation and Applied Technology at the University of New Haven Paul, I'm going to give you an opportunity to tell maybe our listeners who are less than familiar with that institution, a little bit about the work you're doing in a moment. But to set that conversation up a little bit, we say right in the introduction to this podcast, every single week, we love talking with leaders who are disrupting the world of technical education, STEM education, in your case, as it relates to higher education. So let's start with the premise, do we need to disrupt the education model here in the United States of America?

Paul Lavoie: 6:11

Yeah, that's a great question, Matt, and I absolutely do think we need to. We need to disrupt it. What's happening is, you know, and I've worked in industry for many, many years. Then I've worked in government. Now, moving over to academia, it gives me this well rounded view of of what I see to be some of the ways that we can improve the way that we train and inspire the next generation of leaders. So so our premise here at the University of New Haven is, is that, is that the model of just in case education, which means is we're going to teach you a bunch of stuff just in case you might need it when you get a job. Doesn't lead to a ROI for student or a parent. It doesn't really lead to a value equation that makes sense anymore, as the cost of college continues to rise to amounts that that are just unsustainable for so many families, universities, in my opinion, really need to rethink the value proposition for students, and really need to rethink what their position is going to be in the education environment, and it can no longer be education for education's sake. And I'm not saying that a degree isn't important. It's vitally important, but there are other ways that we can supplement the experience here of students that match the needs of industry. We need to have industry, government and academia coming together to be able to understand exactly what product are we producing and who are we producing it for. We produce a product here. Our product is the next generation of leaders for industry, and we can't develop a product and deliver a product if we don't know what our customers want and our customers need. And government needs to be a partner in that as well, because government spends a lot of time and a lot of money trying to keep people here, trying to improve experiences, trying to provide job opportunities, and all of those things, but there needs to be that Trifecta partnership between industry, academia and government, and I'll throw in industry partners that need to join us as well. I consider them part of industry, but it really needs to be disruptive. And we really need to move from this just in case model to a demand driven, industry led model. And we need to take our our campus career centers and make them into job placement agencies and really help kids find jobs and internships, not just teach them how to write a resume and do mock interviews. It just doesn't. It doesn't work anymore, and the University of New Haven is perfectly suited for this, and we've just made a significant investment that's going to that's going to really accelerate this philosophy that we have here at the university, to make sure that that the ROI is is meaningful for students and parents

Matt Kirchner: 8:48

excited to get into the R and D park that that you have that's focused on advanced manufacturing, cybersecurity, I think I saw robotics and automation in there. Machine learning, biotech will, and we'll, we'll certainly take plenty of time to talk about that, because I think it's a really innovative approach, Paul to higher education, before we get to that part of the conversation, just to reflect a little bit on your last answer. You know, it was interesting to me. I went, I went all the way through, kind of the standard education model, through, you know, through my baccalaureate degree. And was always the one who was like asking, why are we learning this? Why do I have to do this? What is this? How does this relate to the real world? Quite honestly, got in no offense to any of my educational institutions, all of all of which did a great job overall. But there was a lot of stuff in that education journey that I don't think I ever even thought about after I got done, and I was amazed to find out, just like in manufacturing, we worked so hard to drive waste out of that process that now you're really kind of taking that approach to it. If it doesn't apply, why are we teaching it? If it doesn't lead to a job skill or a competency? We have to rethink whether or not that should be in the coursework. And that's not to say that some of the more esoteric and maybe humanity size. Of education that has its place, but it should all be for some purpose, and that purpose, by and large, has to be to create a product. As you say, Not that we're trying to productize students, but but the economic model is such that we've got employers. We've got manufacturers that are that are ready and willing to take on those manufacturing leaders and those those business leaders. If we can create them in higher education, we just have to figure out how to do it. One of the things that you said that really resonated me in your remarks when we were together the last time was this, and by way of kind of teeing it up when I came over from manufacturing into the world of education and started talking with instructors and teachers and professors and deans and Provost and Academic Vice Presidents, and, you know, all these folks that we find in higher education, one of the things that amazed me was, you know, I'd run into somebody who's saying, oh, yeah, we're working on this curriculum to teach basic ACDC and electric relay control and motor control and motion control and programmable logic controllers and robotics and automation. And we've got three members of our faculty that are designing this next best way to teach all these things, and we're engaging our advisory board. You know? They get through this whole 10 minute presentation, and you look at them and you say, you know, other people have already figured that out, right? I mean, you don't have to invest tremendous resources in creating all of this curriculum and creating all these learning models. Let's, let's invest the money in an area that hasn't been figured out. Let's build on best practices. And so the statement that you wrote, that I wrote down from your presentation, I don't know that I'm going to get this perfect, is, you know, we talk about problems and advanced solutions to problems that have already been solved. And I was like, oh my goodness, does this guy get it? Because that's exactly what I found when I came over to education. We're creating new ways of teaching exactly the same things in many ways, not really diverging from something that's already been created. Reflect on that a little bit. And how do we drive that waste out of and how are you doing that at the University of New Haven in terms of curriculum design, coursework, hands on, learning programs and so on.

Paul Lavoie: 11:57

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So you know, as chief manufacturing officer, I visited over 380 manufacturers in three years and really leaned into them and listened to what their challenges are. And it was pretty apparent early on that challenges fall into a couple of different buckets, right? I mean, we need a talented and available the lack of an available and skilled workforce was certainly the most innovation adoption, right? Not technology or innovation, because it's a couple of generations ahead of where we are from an adoption standpoint. But how do I adopt these technologies? How do I grow my business? How do I reduce the cost of doing business in the state? And I got to the point where I would go to a meeting and people would start talking about the problem, and I would say, we understand what the problem is. We know what it is. It's incredibly well defined. So let's not do that. Let's start talking about solutions. And then as we started talking about solutions, what I found is that people love to do their own solution. They love to customize a solution for what they feel is their version of the problem. And one of the things that I discovered was that there are hundreds of solutions that are already out there, that are developed, that are underutilized. There are hundreds of 1000s of organizations across the United States. There are 10s of 1000s, or even 1000s of 1000s in your state right now that are working on solving these problems, but yet, what we'll do is we'll sit there and invent a new program, or we'll invest in doing our own solution, or anything like that. And to me, it's an incredible waste of time and incredible waste of resources. The first reflex, the first muscle that we should be exercising when we have a problem is, who solved this problem already? Who out there already has a solution? Let me go find it. And it might not be perfect, but it might be 80 or 90% of it. And let me engage with them to do that, because if I can get them to do it at scale, then we can affect change across an entire industry. And so rather than you know where they're saying, you know, if you have $100 if you give everybody five bucks, it doesn't matter. You don't have any impact, right? You're not, you know, it feels good, but you're really not doing anything. And so it really became the mantra became, we understand what the problem is. Let's go find a solution that we can implement. Let's stop trying to design. And what designing new solutions does is just, it just kicks the can down the street. It just, it just makes the problem longer. It doesn't actually solve the problem. And then what you find is when you get two or three or four or five people in a room that are all working to solve the same problem, and they start talking to each other, the synergistic effect of that is magical. They start saying, Well, hey, I didn't even think about you do this. Well, I do this. Maybe we should partner together. It always amazes me. I mean, in America, we love to talk about problems, and we love to invent our own solutions for the problem, because we all think our problems are unique when they're not like I said there's four essential for lack of an available and skilled workforce. Number one, what does that workforce look like? Sure, your workforce may be different than mine, but if the problem is still the problem. Problem, and then how we solve it? We really need to look at working together and collaborating. States should collaborate. Now, you know, that's always funny. How should states collaborate when we can't collaborate within our own states, nations within our own states to do it, but how can we get states to do it? But I think that that if we focus on collaboration within our states, and then start going out to other states and saying, Hey, we have a lot in common. What can we share best practices? Can we work on this together? We'll grow manufacturing in all of our states. It'll it'll all grow once we start solving the problem. So that's really the focus is really around, you know, stop talking about the problem and start and stop trying to create new solutions. Identify the problem, find a solution that exists, if it's not perfect, modify it, or work with the people that are doing it to modify it, but focus on getting it done and solving the problem and moving on to the next one. And that's that's how we're going to affect change at scale.

Matt Kirchner: 15:53

A business mentor of sorts, of mine, 20 or 30 years ago, used to have a line that he said, The best ideas are stolen. And he meant it. You know, if we had to solve a problem, we wouldn't sit down and say, All right, let's get the best minds in the company together to solve it. We would go out and see who else had already had that problem, who else had already solved it. Learned from them, and then maybe innovate together in terms of figuring out, what could we build on what already exists, rather than spending our resources fixing a problem somebody else's has already solved. So I think it seems so Elementary and so obvious, but, you know, in theory and then in practice, it gets so complicated, you know, I, I spent a week in China, here in August of 2025 I was talking to the CEO of an E commerce company, and they had 100 people working in their company, 100 merchandise managers that Were just managing merchandise on American marketplaces, you know, selling everything from hairspray to computers to furniture. I mean, the whole nine yards into us marketplaces. And I said, How do you train these people where you're in a cluster of 1000 different companies that were in the E commerce space? And he looked at me almost like it was a dumb question. He said, Well, the cluster trains them. We have a training program here at our cluster, 1000 companies, a lot of them competitive to each other, like directly competitive to each other, and they all collaborated on how they train these individuals to work in their organizations. It's the whole idea of a rising tide lifts all ships. And it's like, yeah, I guess I could try to train my own people and let our competitor train theirs. They're all doing similar work. We train them together, and you just don't see that here in the United States, I think there's all kinds of opportunities for us to build on some of those models we see see elsewhere, and not necessarily reinvent the wheel. Okay, so I know our audience can already tell that we're like minded. And of course, we get all kinds of people. They don't tune into this podcast because they want to hear how people were educating students 50 years ago. They want to think about the future. That's what we're doing here on the TechEd podcast. I do want to take a little bit of a breather and just give you an opportunity to plug the University of New Haven a little bit, give us a little bit of an idea of what makes it unique and why you chose to make this switch to the VP of innovation and Applied Technology.

Paul Lavoie: 17:56

The University of New Haven was founded in 1920 so a little over 100 years old. We're a private nonprofit university. And what's really interesting about the University of New Haven is 42% of our students are first generation college students, and 51% are of color. We're really the university that works right. Our students come here because they need to have a career, and they need to change their lives, and they really want to get a great experience. And so what we do is we look at at your educational experience is kind of the foundation for what it is that you need to get right. You need to be a well rounded student. You need to be, you know, well learned in lots of different subjects as well. So we have a new president, President Jens fedrickson, joined about 1820, months ago, and there's been a building adjacent to our campus. It's 133,000 square foot building that the university has been trying to buy, and President Frederickson bought the building. It's 133,000 square feet, and the vision in that building is to build a Center for Innovation and applied technology that invites industry on campus to bring us real world projects to work with our students in an environment of RMD Park, for example. So we look at we look at kind of this, this three legged stool as it relates to, how do we educate the next generation of students? And we start with your base degree and your education. We're going to layer on top of that experiential learning. So we're going out to companies and saying, hey, when you hire an engineer, what do you train them in the first two years? And they go, Well, you know, we're lucky if we get somebody that can think. And then what we do is, this is what we train them on, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I said, Well, how many do you need a year? They're like, well, we probably hire 30 to 40 engineers a year. I said, Well, why don't we pick 30 or 40 kids at the University of New Haven? University of New Haven and their junior and senior years, we'll teach them those skills on your systems and your projects, when your people and all of that, and so that when they came out, they're they're going to have the skills that you need. And you know, industry is looking at me like, why hasn't anybody thought about this before? You know, why? Why aren't we really doing this at this level? And. Then Matt, what we did is we took it one step further, and we went out to industry, and we said, tell us what workplace skills kids don't have, like, you know, do they know how to read an email? Do they know how to respond? They know how to set a meeting request? Do they know how to communicate? Do they know how to make decisions? Do they what are these? You know, some people call them soft skills. We call them workplace skills here. And so what are these workplace skills that they need to have, and we build those into the culture of our university. And so you go to a class, and that class will have a sticker that says you're going to learn we call them the charger 11. We're the New Haven chargers. So we call them the charger 11. You're going to learn this charger skill. And we're talking about how we can certify students in being proficient at these skills before they graduate. So you'll get so you'll get a graduate from the University of New Haven that has a great, solid academic foundation that is built with real experiential learning, on real projects, with real companies, with a set of skills that industry is telling us that kids don't have. And you know, we think the base level for any university is to make a student ready at the University of New Haven. That's not good enough for us. Ours is that we want to have students that are better than ready, that are going to step into the workplace at a high level, and then also progress quickly through organizations, because they're going to be better than ready. They're going to be better than ready to enter that workforce. And then, of course, we have to wrap all of that around an amazing student experience while they're here on campus. Right? We have to have campus clubs and groups. We just moved to division one athletics from Division two. We're here in Connecticut, right? You see the sign behind me that we're submarine capital. We're also the basketball capital the world. So the University of New Haven as a division one school, decides that we're going to schedule our first game against the University of Connecticut men's basketball

Matt Kirchner: 21:49

team. Yeah, take on, yeah. Take on, UConn. Why not? Right?

Paul Lavoie: 21:52

That's our, you know, November 3 on campus at UConn. That's our first game as a division one basketball team. And why not, right? Yeah. You know, love it. Everybody will know who the University of New Haven

Matt Kirchner: 22:05

is game and credit, frankly, to the UConn as well for, for, you know, signing up that opportunity and helping you step into the step into division one basketball in a way that, you know, they with a with a world recognized program, and has been for decade upon decade. That's actually really, really cool. I'm going to definitely tune into

Paul Lavoie: 22:22

that game. Yale has agreed to play us in football, so now we'll have the Battle of New Haven, right with Yale. And, you know, and you know, Sacred Heart is playing us in football, which is down in Fairfield, which is about 25 miles away. And so, you know, there's a great rivalry in Connecticut around hockey, with four programs that all get together, and we're trying to do that now with some of the other schools as it relates to some of the other sports. And, you know, create that, create that spirit within the state of, you know, of having fun while we're while the kids are playing in the sports that they are participating in. Absolutely

Matt Kirchner: 22:57

that student experience so important, especially as higher education gets more and more competitive due to all kinds of things, not the least of which is just the demographics that we've got going on here in the United States, we're recruiting from a smaller pool of potential students, which creates all kinds of challenges in higher education. And so that innovation the student experience, really, really important. And I want to talk a little bit more about culture in a moment, not just on the university side, but on the company side, because I know that's something that you're really passionate about as well as am I. But before we do that, one of the things you mentioned was this, this R and D park that's focused on, I mentioned the the competencies before, but advanced manufacturing, cyber security, robotics, automation, machine learning, biotechnology. Talk a little bit about the R and D park in a little more detail in terms of the technologies that you're going to be delivering, and why you chose those. Yeah,

Paul Lavoie: 23:46

so we went out and talked to industry, and we really took a look at, what are the technologies that are going to be transformational for them from as from an organizational perspective, you know, we're looking at, we're looking at a shrinking workforce. We're looking at how a disruptive workforce, how tools like AI and robotics and automation are going to disrupt the way that we work? And we started to take a look at what is that going to look like in the future. You know, I ask manufacturers questions. You know, we just welcome the class of 2029 here on campus. We're out recruiting the class of 2030 right now. What's your operation going to look like in 2030 What's your shop floor going to look like? What's AI gonna look like? What's robotics and automation gonna look like? And they look at me like they've never thought of it because they've never thought of it because, and to their defense, they're making parts, right? They're doing stuff, right? They're making things. And so I said, Well, we have to think about this, because I need to make sure that, you know, at the University of New Haven, we're educating people that are going to have the skills that you need, that you don't even know that you need at this point in time. And so we've spent a lot of time around what are those skills and what are we going to need? And centers of excellence around artificial intelligence, around machine learning, around robotics, robotics and automation, additive manufacturing, the digital transformation, digital. Digital twins, digital threads, NDT, non destructive testing. We're a huge aerospace and ship building community here in Connecticut and in the northeast, nondestructive testing is critically important. And to our knowledge, there's no university that offers a program around non destructive testing engineering. And so we have major aerospace companies coming to us like, this is really cool. We really want to engage with you on this. We think this is a tremendous opportunity. So it really is. The point on this, Matt is it's industry led and industry driven. It's not, it's not what Paul avoy thinks, or what the professors here at the University think industry needs. It's what industry needs. And we're, we're listening to them, and it really is, to support all 4800 companies here in the state, so big companies will help drive the discussion, and then we have to work with smaller companies on the adoption of these technologies, because that's really where, where most companies are struggling, right? The two limiting factors are time and money. You know, educational institutions can help with the time piece, because we have labor, we have students. I have all these kids, right? So I can, you know, we can help with that, and that's where government has to put catalyst capital in the marketplace. And we're excited about working with the state of Connecticut and other, you know, other federal entities as well, to say, Listen, how do we accelerate the adoption of these technologies? So it's an Applied Technology Center. We're not going to cure cancer. We're not going to invent things. We're not going to do anything from the R side of that, our research side of the R and D equation. It's really going to focus on development, and it's going to focus on the implementation of technologies that we know exist to drive productivity, throughput and success for for industry in Connecticut, and it's not just manufacturing. It could be FinTech And sure, tech hospitals. When you think of ai, ai is omnipresent, right? We're going to have companies come to us for AI solutions across an entire spectrum of industry and industry partners. And the center's open is going to be open to all, but it'll be obviously focused on the major issues that we're that we're working on. And again, I'm out there telling industry, it's a white box. Tell me what you want, and we'll put it in there, and we'll do and we'll develop for you that next generation of leader that's going to go where you're going. It's the Wayne Gretzky of workforce development, right? We're going where the puck is. No, I

Matt Kirchner: 27:20

have to compliment you on that mindset. You know, the a couple of things that just that just stood out to me as you were walking through the way that you're thinking about that, Paul, the first one is, you're exactly right. I mean, you think about how AI is going to manifest itself, whether it's, you know, financial technology, insurance, technology, manufacturing, hospitality, retail, national defense, energy. I mean, it is, it's ubiquitous in healthcare. And we're big believers in teaching. And I love the way that you talk about, you know, teaching this in a hands on applied way. You know, teaching applied artificial intelligence, physical artificial intelligence, understanding that, just like your phone has 23 smart sensors on it that are measuring everything you're doing all day, sending that to a control center. Control system that's called the phone, sending that information that needs to go to the fog, to the fog, sending what needs to go to the cloud, to the cloud. And that, you know, that's the way that Spotify, for example, predicts exactly which song I want to hear next, is by gathering all that information about me, both in terms of my physical activity and in terms of of what I'm doing in the in the digital world, that continuum exists across every aspect of the economy. But to your point, how we teach that? And I guess, relative to what's happening in every sector of our economy, that becomes really, really important. And having the ability to plug and play different experiences as technology changes is really important, and especially here in AI, where, you know, I'm used to the exponential economy, where products double in price performance every 12 to 18 months. What we're seeing in AI and the speed of compute and the just the proliferation of predictive analytics and so on, it's doubling in price performance every, you know, three to six months. And so what the technology that's relevant today is not necessarily going to be relevant in certainly in five years, maybe not even in three or four I've been following really closely, and as our audience knows, have a financial interest in a in an effort around what we call Discover AI more focused on the K 12 space, but students going through an E Learning course, a 16 hour e learning course On applied artificial intelligence and what we call the edge to cloud continuum, and then 12 different experiences, 45 hours a piece in things like autonomous vehicles and Mars roversd design and fabrication industry, 4.0 and the edge to cloud continuum in manufacturing. So they get all this experiential learning, and they've set it up in such a way that if one of those isn't relevant in three years, you pull it out and plug something else in, and it sounds is that that's kind of how you're thinking about this, right? You're, you've got the same approach.

Paul Lavoie: 29:49

Yeah, you have to, I think you have to be flexible and adaptable and really take a look at, if you're leaning into industry that should be, it should be relatively easy to do, and to make sure that you're, that you're listening. And just understand and say, Hey, listen, where are you going? Right? Because the large companies are already doing this. They're making these investments. They're doing this kind of they're doing this kind of work. You know, I think we were at the conference. We were at the Chief Technology Officer for FANUC said the technology is three generations ahead of what we're actually implementing, which is, no The future's already happened. We're just trying to catch up to it so and so, I think if we focus on the Applied Technology part of it and implementing the solutions, that's going to accelerate the development of new solutions too, and as we accelerate the adoption, that'll continue to keep that flywheel spinning and spinning quickly as it relates to innovation. So it's, it's, it's an exciting time. I think it's just an exciting time to be to be alive as these technologies start to start to really become more mainstream. That's

Matt Kirchner: 30:48

exactly the way I think about it. I've got friends that are reaching the point of their career where they're like, Man, I'm glad I'm retiring in five years, because I don't know that I could keep up with all this. I'm like, Are you kidding me? I wish I was 22 this is so much fun, but I'm going to stay on this wave as long as they'll let me stay on it. It's absolutely incredible. And I'm glad you mentioned that presentation last week. And by the way, we'll plug the organization, the National Center for next gen manufacturing, which does just does a great job in terms of advocating for manufacturing technology, preparing, especially those in our two year technical colleges and community colleges for this kind of advancement. So great conference. I was Clyde Dinsmore, by the way, who was the CTO for for FANUC his presentation, I'm sure you got to see some of the amazing technology, the way that FANUC is using vision, the way they're using autonomous mobile robots. And certainly they're not, not the only ones innovating in these spaces, but, but that was a really, really cool way to to get immersed into some of this advanced manufacturing technology, as we think about where manufacturing goes and recruiting the next generation of students. You know, I wrote another I took a couple notes down. So, you know, I was paying attention to your presentation last week. Paul, I love this line. And when we talk about, and I hear it all the time for manufacturers, they're like, you know, we find these young people, we find millennials, we find Gen z's, and, you know, we just, we can't get them to work. We can't get them to do it the way that we've always done it. And, and your line was, young people don't want to work for you. And I just absolutely love that, because I'm 100% in agreement. I mean, we've built entire companies around, I think four or five of them now, around people in their, you know, 20s, early 30s. And it's not that we're, you know, discriminating one way or the other, but, man, if you could find somebody with that kind of energy, with that kind of focus, with a passion for a mission. You know, they're not going to come to work just to just to crank out parts like maybe people did in my early days of manufacturing. That doesn't work anymore, but I would love for you to reflect a little bit on for our manufacturers that listen, and we have a lot of them now, you're trying to attract these young people into into in your organization, and maybe you feel like you're not getting as much out of them as you as you think you should. The blame is probably on as much on the employer, if not more, as it is on the on the employee. Talk about how you know, number one, where's that perception coming from? And number two, if I am somebody working as an employer, especially in manufacturing. How do I get the most out of this next generation of team

Paul Lavoie: 33:06

member culture is incredibly important. Before I was the chief manufacturing officer, I ran a manufacturing business, and our culture was really, really interesting and unique. We were 100% happily staffed, incredibly low turnover. And in fact, when somebody did leave, we used to do over unders on when they'd come and ask for their job back others that would say, well, we'll wait till they get out there and see what the real world's like before they come back here. And just to give you a little insight into that, we had at Carrie manufacturing. We had two product lines, one that we had always manufactured in the US, and one that we sent to China because we were in a race for the bottom in 2001 in 2017 we re shored that product line back to the US. So I had to stand up a brand new production line. So I had a production line that was that was around since the 1950s so it was run by senior people, right? Very experienced people, ethnically diverse group of people. And then I had to stand up a brand new production line that consisted of very young people that came out of technical high schools and some of the programs that we had. So I had this really, really kind of strange vibe out on the shop floor where there were two worlds. There was this 5060, year old world. And there was this 2025, year old world that were out there and and to get to that culture, I used to tell people there was only one thing that changed in that whole company as it related to building a culture where everybody felt, everybody felt that they contributed. Well, everybody got along, everybody supported each other. And there was only one thing that changed in that whole culture, and that was me as a leader. I had to understand how I was going to blend those two environments together and meet the needs of two diverse groups of people. But then it came down to to meet the needs of individuals. And it was things like simple things like we had a. Quality person who bought a keyboard that lit up, right? And I saw the keyboard, and I said to her, I said, Patricia, what? Where'd you get this keyboard? And she goes, Oh, I bought it. And I said, Why did you buy it? She goes, Well, it makes me happy. It makes me happy to work with this keyboard and things like that. And I go, well, it makes you happy. It makes me happy. So how much did you pay for it, right? I paid $80 I said, Good, I'm gonna write you a check for$80 I want to buy that for you, right? And she looked at me, like, what? And I'm like, Yeah, I want you, don't. You shouldn't have to pay for a tool to work. And if that makes you happy, I'll do that. You know, things, little things like that, where, you know, I had our receptionist. I called her our director of first impressions. She loved that title, right? But that was the job she you know, anybody that called that was the first impression they got of the company. And so she was the director of first impressions, and she was happy and bubbly. She asked me one day if she could decorate her cubicle. And I said, Sure. And then I came in on Monday morning, and this thing was like Zen, like tapestries hanging all over a cubicle. People that she worked with coming in the office, going, what the heck is up with that. And I said, Well, I said, it's actually my fault. And they said, why? I said, because I failed to ask one important question, and that was, what do you have in mind? I said, and quite frankly, I like it because it makes her happy. I said, and listen, there's things that I do for you that make you happy, right? Like, I let you do this, and you come and you work this schedule, and they're like, Yeah, you do that for me. I said, Well, we're going to do that for her, because it's important for her to do that. And everybody realized that once you saw them as an individual and recognize them, that they all just kind of lifted each other up and worked together and accepted everybody's quirkiness and differences and things like that, and and we had fun. And it can you can imagine, productivity levels were really high. And so when, when people came to me and said, Oh, these young people, they don't want to work, my response was, they just don't want to work for you, because they wanted to work for me. And I know 15 other companies out there that they want to work for because they are working. I know there's amazing leaders in their 20s and 30s out there running manufacturing companies that are in environments that are led by amazing leaders. So so if you have that attitude that young people don't want to work, they won't because they're not going to want to work for you, because you're not going to be inspiring them. And so the biggest change has to happen with leaders of manufacturing businesses to understand, how do they build a culture that's inclusive and that sees people for who they are? Because when now in today's world, when you see people for who they are, they feel valued, they care and nobody cares about you until they know you care about them. And so when you care about them, they're going to care about you, and they'll run through walls for you. And that's hard, Matt, that's really, really hard work. But, you know, once it's up and running and you got the flywheel moving, you know, you just sit back and watch this. This amazing company do amazing things. You know, my philosophy was the team comes first. And I used to tell people that, you know, do you ever fire a customer? Do you ever fire a customer in front of a team member? If you've never done it, do it and watch what happens to that team member, because you're going to fire a customer that that team member hates. But, you know, but if you say the customer comes first, and you're putting your team member in this nasty situation with a nasty customer, you know, pick up the phone and say, I don't like the way you talk to my employees. I don't think I want to do business with you anymore. What do you think your employees are going to do that. So my philosophy was always the team comes first. I'm going to take care of my team, because my team is going to take care of my customers. My customers are going to take care of my business, and the business is going to take

Matt Kirchner: 38:30

care of me. I'll give you an example of that. This goes back a number of years. I was running, I won't tell I won't say, What company, but I was running a large contract manufacturing company, and we had a a a customer service person that had committed to a specifically time, to a due date, with a with a with a client or customer, and the production line went down. You know, no fault of the customer service person, but it's, you know, one company, one team. It's like, we're all going to take the hit for this. And so the customer wanted to come in and meet with the customer service person and me to learn about what the problem was. I'm like, Yeah, happy to have that meeting. You're great customer. Let's let's talk about it. And the customer lost his temper in the meeting and said, your customer service person lied to me about the lead time. And if they ever do that again, I'm going to come into this office and I'm going to rip out their lungs, is what he said. And I'm like, Well, we're gonna save you the trouble. We will never lie to you who can, because we are done doing business with someone who had threatened to kill a customer service person. So you can take your parts and walk out of here and don't ever call us and and it was exactly the result. The customer service person was like, Are you serious? And I'm like, Absolutely, I'm serious. They're not going to treat you that way. Now that was a customer that was probably half a percent of our business. If that was a customer that was 30% maybe you pick a different opportunity, but, but that was one of those things where it's like, no, we're not going to let a customer talk to us like that. So I have lived through that, and I have actually done it more than once, but that particular story is my favorite

Paul Lavoie: 39:57

one I've done. I've done my second largest customer. Yeah, yeah. And, and, however, though, and they went to a competitor, and they came screaming back from the competitor, and they became, they became the largest customer, because they gave us all their business, because we had delivered on time and done all of that, but they had made the relationship so contentious that we just didn't feel that that worth it. And we've, we had a plan on how we would recover from that. And it literally was six months they came back to us saying, you know, we made a huge mistake. We're so sorry. People at their company got fired because they lost a lot of money when I was dealing with lawyers. You know, it was, it was a huge big deal. But you know, sometimes when you have the courage to do that, it comes back to you. It comes back to you in just ways that that you can't imagine, and ways to grow your business. But again, it just really goes back to if you really want to build a great culture, just invest in your team. Put your team for no put your team first. Invest in them, understand them, train them. Give them up. Skilling opportunities. Re skilling opportunities, but let them know you care about them as people. And they'll, they'll, they'll do amazing things for you. They really for

Matt Kirchner: 41:04

this next generation, it's about so much more than money. And I think, you know, in my generation, coming of age in the 80s, and you were like, you know, you wanted him, you want, you want to make a lot of money. You would do, you know, all kinds of crazy things, if the if the employer would pay you more. And now it's, it's not for so many young people not to say that it's not a factor or isn't important, but, but having a mission, being associated with something bigger than themselves, being part of a team that's doing something big as a as a group of people, you know, economic success in a manufacturing or any other business is important, right? We can't reinvest in our company. We can't reinvest in our team, we can't promote people. We can't create opportunities if we're not succeeding economically. But in the end, it's not about the bottom line, month in and month out in I think in some ways it was 3040, 50 years ago. That's not the case for this, this next generation. I think the other thing that I wanted to ask you about Paul regarding, you know, whether it's Gen Z and some of the folks may be coming out of technical colleges, community colleges, four year universities, right out of high school and so on. You had made a comment last week about their perception of manufacturing. What? What is for somebody who is 1718, 1921, years old that's never been around manufacturing? What? What is their perception of manufacturing?

Paul Lavoie: 42:18

Yeah, you know, we always thought, and I was big, big advocate of this, that we thought young people thought manufacturing was dark and dirty and dangerous. I've heard it called pale, stale and male. Your grandfather's manufacturing. It's the you know, ask a young kid to grow a manufacturing business and they'll grow a building with a smokestack. That's not what manufacturing looks like, but that's the perception of what it is. And so we thought that, and so we commissioned a study. We brought a marketing agency on board. We commissioned a study in Connecticut in the office of manufacturing, and what we found blew us away. What we found was that young people have no perception of manufacturing whatsoever. They think we've raised an entire generation of young people that think things magically appear in an Amazon warehouse and get shipped to their house, they don't really realize how things are made, or that things are made, because that's not what you know, that's not what they've been exposed to. And what we find is that when we show them what manufacturing is, and when we show them what they can make and what they can do, they are flocking to these careers, and they're really flocking to this opportunity. So we have this work that needs to be undone. All of this work of disconnecting manufacturing to our young people needs to be reconnected. And they need to learn and understand how things are made, and that things are made, how they're made, and the people that make them to understand that everything in their life is manufactured by somebody you know, you know, you can't, you know, the technology that we're doing this podcast on somebody made all the components of this, somebody designed it, made it, manufactured it. And, you know, America made some very big mistakes with moving manufacturing out of the country to other countries, so that we lose that connection. But, you know, I think we're starting to see that tide turn, and we're starting to see more manufacturing come back here, but we need to be reaching middle school kids, elementary school kids. You know, first robotics, VEX robotics, those programs are great ways to introduce kids to STEM careers, and to introduce them to things that, things that are made, and how they're made, and to get them excited about that. So that's some of the work that we're going to take on here at the university as well in our R and D Park is we're gonna have an inspiration zone, which is going to roll out a red carpet to K through 12 programs to inspire kids to think about making. We want to make the, you know, the next generation of makers, doers, inventors and creators. We need to do it now, doing it. And if you

Matt Kirchner: 44:39

happen to have a copy of that study, we'd love to link that up in the show notes. So send that over the study that you did where you found the students don't have, you know, have no perception of manufacturing, which I think, by the way, is good news, right? So it's one thing to get over a stigma of dark, dirty and dangerous, or, you know, whatever you want to call it, and it's another thing to say, well, we're starting with. A clean slate, right? We don't have to change the perception. We just have to build one. One of the things that was important to me, having spent all my time in manufacturing, when our when our kids were moving through high school and picking what was next, I said, Look, you know, whatever, whatever you want to do after high school, whether that's workforce or community college or, you know, four year degree, or whatever is right for you, we'll help you with that, as long as the rule was that they had to spend at least part of that time working in manufacturing. And so my son worked in a metal Ford shop. My daughter worked at a big electronics contract manufacturer for a summer, and then spent another summer working at a large contract machining company. And I would have people that would say to me, Oh, I know why you're doing that. You want them to know what it's like to work in a job like that, so they stay in school and get a degree. And I'm like, you know, never mind how insulting that is to somebody who spent their entire career in manufacturing. That's not it at all. I want them to be able to, you know, get to the end of the day and look over their shoulder at a sea of parts on a dock and know that they had a part in making that. And I wanted them to get to know just the amazing people that work in the plants and factories across America and people. They're good people, they're hard working people, they're smart people, they're innovative people. These are awesome careers, and I wanted my kids to be exposed to those kind of careers so that they knew what manufacturing was all about. And so you and I couldn't agree more in terms of the importance of exposure, of recognizing that, yeah, that part doesn't isn't just something, you know, an app that you open up on your on your phone, and it shows up on the front day, front door two days later. You know that manufacturing is an integral part, and really the fabric of what made America, what America is, and the careers are just amazing. I saw a recent study that said that 80% of young people want to work in tech. And when they say they want to work in tech. They're talking about going to work at meta or open AI or Apple or name any, any one of 20 different tech companies. In the truth of the matter is, you look at the technology that you're talking about with your R and D Park, things like robotics, automation, machine learning, biotechnology, advanced manufacturing, cyber security. Make no mistake, tech careers are alive and well. In the world of manufacturing, you want to work in tech, you know, look at manufacturing as an opportunity. And I mean,

Paul Lavoie: 47:06

when you think about it, you know what we're going to put in the center? Most of it is technology. It's not, there'll be a machine shop there. But we're not, you know, we're not teaching welding. We're not teaching CNC programming. Plenty of other places in the state that do that, I don't need to do that, right? So go back to the you know, find what your solution is and so, and those skills are important, but it's, it's really for us is finding our lane. So

Matt Kirchner: 47:29

absolutely time for probably two more questions with Paul before we have to wrap up our time with what and what's been just a fascinating conversation about the future of education. So Paul, first question, these, these next two are ones we love to end every episode with. So just about every guest gets these two questions, the first one, and I know we're gonna we're gonna talk about something that you believe about education that would surprise other people. I know, with your background in manufacturing, your background as the chief manufacturing Officer of your state now, the incredible work you're doing at the University of New Haven, what is something about education that you believe that would surprise our audience a little

Paul Lavoie: 48:03

bit. I don't know that it would surprise your audience, but I think it's the I think it's the notion of of not understanding that education is a lifelong activity and and also understanding that you have the capability within you to learn anything, as long as you're open to learning it. And so. So when it comes to education, you know, if kids today are going to live to be 100 years old, why is it between 18 and 22 we give them a formal education? Why does that make sense anymore? And how do we look at, you know, how do we look at education as a lifelong journey where you're always learning. And it doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to look like a four year degree program, right? It can look like, you know, what are, what are credentials? Stackable credentials? How can we continue to grow skills and things like that? So the philosophy at the University here that we have as education is, we're just giving you a launching point for your career, but your career should include education as an element of that. And don't ever stop learning. I don't, don't ever stop at all. I mean, I, you know, you talk about retirement and slow down and all that stuff. You know, retirements for some people, I think that's great. I just, you know, I'm going to wear out. I'm not going to rust out. So

Matt Kirchner: 49:18

Exactly, yeah, I love that. I just, I read the book out live not too long ago, by Dr Peter Attia. And the whole idea, that's a correlation, but it's, it's around the idea of health span versus lifespan. And we spent so much time and money in this country and around the globe extending people's lives, you know, even after they're really healthy enough to have a high, high quality of life. And he said, it really should be about being healthy for as long as you can be and, you know, and focusing on on your health span. I kind of think about the workplace as the as the same thing. I mean, for me, it's like, I want to be productive. I want to add value for absolutely as long as I can. I don't have some artificial date set out in the future that says, Oh, this is when I get to a relax and enjoy my life. I can't imagine having more fun than I am right now, and I just want to keep it going as long as I can. And Good lord, willing, I can, you know, work well into my my 70s, 80s and beyond, and be just like those Gen Z's that you reference if we're going to live to 100 let's keep let's keep learning. Let's keep gaining new skills. Let's keep gaining new knowledge and putting it to work. I just, I just think it's the best time in the world to be a human being living on the planet Earth. So one last, one last question I want. I want to take you back in time and let you give a little bit of advice to to your younger self. I want to go back to maybe the age of 15. You're a sophomore in high school, and you get to give that young man one little piece of advice to take him through the rest of his years. What would that advice be?

Paul Lavoie: 50:39

You know, I think it's something that I came to later in life that would really have helped me as a younger person. I'm a first generation high school graduate, and so there was no like kitchen table for me. There was no discussion you either went in the Navy or you went to work in a grocery store. That was those were my options, right? And I should have sought mentors and advisors much earlier in my career. I should have realized that that there were people there that could help me on my journey and help me along, and not try to do it all on your own and by yourself and things like that. And, you know, and it took me, it took me a few, you know, a few different bosses, to kind of figure that out, and to find people that that believed in me, that that saw in me what I didn't see in me, and but I had to be open to them seeing it and me believing it. And I think that took me a little bit longer than than I would have liked. So I would have told my 15 year old self, find more mentors. Find people that can see something in you that you don't see and see that with them, and go to them and, you know, take what they have to offer you to help you, said, to help you grow Absolutely.

Matt Kirchner: 51:48

I love the fact that, you know, you put into the whole idea of seeking a mentor who sees something in you that you might not see yourself, which, to me, I mean, we talked about about the value of teachers, professors, instructors and so on. That's one of the things we always talk about in that regard, is is, you know, uncover and and dust off that, that hidden skill that that young person, or person of any age didn't recognize that they had, or a competency or ability or an opportunity to succeed that was that was buried in them. And you help them find that really, really important as a as a mentor. So that importance of having mentors and also being a mentor. We have a 15 year old listening to this, this episode of the podcast, or watching it on YouTube. Don't be afraid to ask for help. I mean, there's just so many people that would willingly, way more willingly than you could ever imagine, respond to the call and say, I would love to help you. I would love to meet with you. Don't be afraid to raise your hand and say, I could, could use some help. Sure.

Paul Lavoie: 52:40

I mean, one, one thing that you say to somebody could affect their entire trajectory of their career. You don't, you don't know that, but you should go out of your way to make sure that you you recognize people in that way and in that manner. And again, you can affect the entire trajectory of your future just by one, by paying just by recognizing and then seeing in them something that they don't see that, that when you bring it to the forefront, they see it, and they they actually move into it.

Matt Kirchner: 53:07

And we are all about here on the TechEd podcast, getting those trajectories off in the right direction, as high and as positive and with as much energy as possible. Really glad Paul that you managed to do that with us this this week. I knew this was going to be a great episode. I knew we were going to have a lot of fun talking. Of fun. Talking about disruption in higher education, talking about the next generation of the workforce, talking about how manufacturers and all employers can be as attractive as possible to that next generation of talent. Going to be really, really important. And I really admire all the work that you've done in your career, and certainly the work you're doing now at the University of New Haven as the vice president of innovation and Applied Technology as Paul Lavoy, thank you so much for

Paul Lavoie: 53:46

being with us, Matt. Thank you. I enjoyed our conversation, and we're going to link up the

Matt Kirchner: 53:50

show notes for this episode of the podcast at TechEd podcast.com/lavoy that is TechEd podcast.com/l A, V, O, I, E. So check those out. We talked about a couple references to things we're going to link up there. So so be sure and visit those show notes. And when you're done, as always, we want to see you on social media. So whether you are on tick tock or LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram, wherever you're consuming social media, you will find the TechEd podcast. When you do, make sure you leave us a note let us know how much you love this podcast, and we would love to hear from you. So until next week. This is Matt Kirkner. I am the host of the TechEd podcast. Have a great week, and we will see you in seven days. You.