Using Values and Customer Experience to Guide an AI and Data-Driven Strategy - Irv and Ryan Blumkin, Chairman and EVP of Nebraska Furniture Mart

In this episode of The TechEd Podcast, host Matt Kirchner sits down with Irv Blumkin, Chairman of Nebraska Furniture Mart (NFM), and Ryan Blumkin, Executive Vice President, to unpack nearly 90 years of retail innovation, from Mrs. B’s pawn-shop beginnings to multi-acre campuses in Omaha, Kansas City, Dallas, and soon Austin. They explore what it’s like to partner with Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway, build massive destination developments, and still obsess over every single SKU and customer interaction. 

From dynamic pricing and AI-enabled operations to a mind-blowing learning trip through China’s retail and technology ecosystem, Irv and Ryan share how NFM is using data, automation, and emerging tech to deepen their moat, without ever losing sight of values, culture, and long-term thinking. They also talk careers in retail tech, why young “outside-the-box” thinkers matter, and the role of lifelong learning in leading through disruption. 

Listen to learn:

• Why Warren Buffett bought Nebraska Furniture Mart on a handshake, and what Irv has learned from decades of dinners and deal-making with him
• Why strong values and culture matter more than ever in this tech-driven marketplace
• How NFM uses massive-store footprints, destination partners like Scheels, and even hotel/convention centers to turn shopping into an experience
• How dynamic pricing, digital shelf tags, and nightly web crawls of 70,000+ SKUs keep NFM competitive with Amazon, Costco, Wayfair, and others
• What Irv and Ryan saw in China's tech companies and how those lessons are shaping NFM’s future

3 Big Takeaways from this Episode:

1. Timeless values can scale into a $2 billion business. Mrs. B’s simple principles (sell at a great price, tell the truth, and pay your bills) still anchor NFM’s strategy, even as the company builds 1.8 million-square-foot campuses and expands into new markets like Austin. Irv connects those values directly to long-term growth, customer trust, and the family’s partnership with Berkshire Hathaway. 

2. Technology is now core infrastructure, not an add-on. NFM’s nightly web crawling, digital price tags, and dynamic pricing systems automatically position them as the best value against online competitors, while complex distribution networks and emerging AI tools optimize inventory and logistics. Ryan frames this as building a “moat” with data, automation, and relentless operational excellence, not just more advertising. 

3. Lifelong learning is mandatory for modern leadership. Irv has invested in executive education for decades, and both he and Ryan describe their China trip as “eye opening” in terms of speed, scrappiness, AI adoption, and asset-light business models. They’re already translating those lessons into new e-commerce strategies, warehouse automation concepts, and AI-enabled process improvements back at NFM. 

Resources in this Episode:

• Learn more about Nebraska Furniture Mart
• Other resources mentioned:
  • Six Days in China: The Speed, Scale and Innovation Outpacing the U.S. - Podcast episode with Todd Wanek

MORE LINKS & RESOURCES ON THE EPISODE PAGE: https://tech

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Transcript

TechEd Podcast Introduction: 0:09

This is the TechEd podcast, where we feature leaders who are shaping, innovating and disrupting technical education and the workforce. These are the stories of organizations leading the charge to change education, to rethink the workforce and to embrace emerging technology. You'll find us here every Tuesday on our mission to secure the American Dream for the next generation of STEM and workforce talent. And now here's your host, Matt Kirchner

Matt Kirchner: 0:38

it's Matt Kirkner on the TechEd podcast, where we are securing the American Dream for the next generation of STEM and workforce talent, the number one podcast in all of STEM and technical education ranked weekly in the top 1% of 1% of technology podcasts on the globe. And because of all of that, we have an opportunity to meet so many great and fascinating people week in and week out. We're so blessed to do the work that we are doing. I will tell you here in the year 2025 two of the best people, and I mean that genuinely that I had the opportunity to meet, are joining us on The TechEd podcast today. I've learned a bit about their company, spent some time with them in Omaha, Nebraska, what they are doing, and the scale at which they are doing it absolutely blew me away. It's really an honor and a privilege to welcome to the studio of the TechEd podcast two great friends. And first one is Irv Blumpkin. Irv is the chairman of Nebraska Furniture Mart. Secondly, Ryan Blumpkin, the executive vice president of that same company. What we're going to learn today about what they're doing, what they have done, where they're going, how they're embracing technology. Just sets a great example for anybody in the world of business, anybody in the world of technology. And it's a great honor. Irv, I'll start with you. Welcome you to the TechEd podcast. It's great to have you on, and thanks for being with us. Great to be here. Thanks, Matt and Ryan, same message. I mean, I remember, as we were walking through the airport earlier this year, and you were telling me about just all the amazing things you're doing, the investments you're making, how you're doing some great things all over the United States, in the way you're thinking about the future of your company. Really, really fascinating. So to you as well. Ryan, great to have you on. It's an honor to be here. It's an honor to have you. Irv, we're going to spend some time right out of the blocks here, familiarizing our listeners with Nebraska Furniture Mart. Let's talk a little bit about the company. The back story. If our audience is a little bit less familiar with the work you're doing, what should they know

Irv Blumkin: 2:31

the business was founded by my grandmother, Mrs. B, as she was known, in 1937and she came over to the United States. She escaped through Russia, through Siberia, took a peanut boat to Seattle, ended up in Fort Dodge Iowa, and they did speak the language. Didn't have enough Jewish people in there, and she ended up in the city of Omaha. Didn't have much more but at least she she felt a little more comfortable. And she started working with her husband in a pawn shop, and then she got very interested in the furniture business, and she decided she was going to start a business. So in 1937 she opened up a small store. And her philosophy was very simple at that time. It was sell cheap and tell the truth. And so she just wanted to give the customer a good deal. And it was just a small store at the time. And then 1949, early 50s, she was starting to get a track record, but she was always worried about making sure she paid all of her bills. So she had this idea of renting out the Civic Auditorium in Omaha, and she put on this huge sale. It was very successful, and that gave her the insight that, you know, maybe it's a good idea to have these big, larger stores and give the customer great value. And that was probably the last time she ever owed anybody any money. From there on, my dad came back from the war, and he helped grow the business with my grandmother, and we were in four categories, furniture, flooring, appliances and electronics. My father grew the business, and my brother and I came back in the 70s. We always loved the business. We grew up in the business when we were kids, and then we sort of helped grow the business, take it to the next level. And then in 1983 we sold a portion of our business to Warren Buffett, and he bought our business, and he's been a great partner ever since. And we decided that we would maybe expand, and we went and opened up a store in Kansas City, Kansas, you know, our stores are large stores. There aren't a lot of them, but they're in the somewhere in the 450 to 550,000 square foot of retail. At that time, we estimated that if we did 40, $50 million out of out of that store of the year that would be successful. And we opened the store, and I think the first year we did a little less than 200 million, or right around 200 million. So we sort of shocked the system. And my brother and I looked at each other and says, Oh, we're never going to do this again. Then as time went. On, we got more comfortable with it, and then we expanded to Dallas, Texas, and we built a 1.8 million square foot facility, including warehouse there and and we've been there now for about a little over 10, nine years, nine years, and that's been very successful. And so we grew from a was a very, very small business in the in the 70s, we were doing 30, $40 million and today we're a $2 billion company, and we're going to be opening a new store in in Austin, but all built on great selection, a good customer experience, really nice stores, and giving the customers great deals well.

Matt Kirchner: 5:41

And it sounds like going all the way back to 1937 and I think, you know, my father was actually born in 36 he just turned 89 years old. I mean that you've been doing this for a really long time, and it just strikes me that your grandmother and the values that you talk about, about selling great products, selling them at affordable prices, always telling the truth really, really important. And this whole idea of not carrying any debt as well, for her to recognize the value of having a strong balance sheet and so on. And doesn't mean that none of us carry that debt in our business, but, but making sure that we're really, really being practical and thoughtful about that and reasonable all those are really just, they're those kind of salt of the earth values that you you love to see in a business, and the fact that you've carried that forward for these 89 or 90 years and been, you know, been so incredibly successful, I guess 88 years, if I'm doing the math right, and been so successful, had the kind of growth that you've seen. And it all comes back to really believing in good business values and staying true to those values. You know, I love people that just kind of take their businesses and break them down to the lowest common denominator. Focus on what's simple, focus on what drives the business, and really, just be really, really good at that. I think there's probably no greater example of that than the kinds of companies that Warren Buffett invests in, and you talk about Berkshire Hathaway partnering with them. Back in 1983 I've known a couple other people. One in particular, I think you and I have talked about who ran a company that was owned by Berkshire Hathaway and just had nothing but great things to say about Warren, about Charlie Munger and the you know, the incredible tradition and the incredible work that they're doing. Course, in a matter of weeks, I think Warren will be be retiring and stepping down. So it's an interesting time to be having this conversation as somebody that's worked around someone like a Warren Buffett or even a Charlie Munger. And I know, I know this is more than just a business relationship for you, because we've talked about it. IRF, but what is it like to work that closely with an absolute American business icon, a global business icon like Warren Buffett.

Irv Blumkin: 7:42

Well, he's been absolutely the perfect partner. You know, he bought our business, Matt, believe it or not, he bought it on a handshake. He never took it, he never took an audit. And you know, we've been partners now for 47 years, and it is absolutely as much as you read about him, and as much as people write about him, it's, it's been 1000 times better than you can ever imagine. You know, he lets you run your business. If you need, you want his input, you can pick up the phone and and talk to him, and he'll give you an answer. But he just, you know, he has trust in people. He has great learning lessons, you know, like, like you just mentioned. I mean, he keeps things simple, you know, take care of the customer. You know, understand what you what you stand for, create a moat around your business, surround yourself with the best people you can and you know, he's taught us so many great lessons, integrity, honesty, doing the right thing, being kind to people. And you know, it's so simple things that really make a difference. And in fact, you know, we'll go to dinner with Warren maybe once every four to six weeks. In fact, we have dinner with him tonight. Believe it really and and every time we get together with him, it is just, it is like a Learning Library and and, you know, we get, we get a chance to a guy who's 95 years old to be able to tell us about life and what's important and how you really measure success. And from a business standpoint and a personal standpoint, you just, you know, we couldn't have been picked a better, more perfect partner, and he's lived up to everything that he said he would do, and hopefully we've done the same thing, and it's just been a wonderful, wonderful relationship, but it's a it's every day is a learning, is a learning from him. And, you know, we try to take advantage that, including, including Ryan and Charlie Munger, equally. You know, we didn't get as much time to spend with Charlie, but I've spent many hours with him. And you know, their their wisdom and their clarity and their simplicity about business and about life, we tend to make things a lot more complicated than they should be, and they somehow put it down to real simple kinds of things, and those. Just all of the many things that we've been able to listen to and take advantage to and try to emulate in our business

Matt Kirchner: 10:08

well, and talk about breaking things down to really simple concepts, one of my favorite Charlie Munger quotes that I use all the time and I actually live by, because I have a tendency to get emotional sometimes when I read an email or I, you know, I want to respond right away to somebody that maybe, you know, maybe struck a nerve with me. And his quote was, you can always tell someone to go to hell tomorrow, if it's such a good idea. And that one is just always, always stuck with me. From Charlie Munger. Be sure to let Warren know when he's down for dinner with him. Number one, hello from the TechEd podcast. And number two, if he ever wants to have a really, really fascinating discussion, we would welcome to sit in that same spot that you are and spend some time with us here on the podcast. Nothing would be nothing would be greater. But to your point, what an incredible human being, an incredible legacy, so many lessons, the ones that you talked about, and just the, you know, the simplicity of the way that he looked at business and looks at business and looks at it for the long term and and focuses on fundamentals and doesn't doesn't get emotional himself about making decisions, and because of that, he's built just incredible, incredible value for for so many people across the United States, not just not just himself, and not just the folks that are helping run companies and CO owning companies with him, but but so many Berkshire Hathaway investors as well. What an incredible life that he continues to lead. Speaking of leading an incredible life, I had an opportunity to learn a little bit about your father, Irv, and we talked about him earlier on the podcast, when you mentioned him getting involved in the family business. We also talked at length about him when I visited you in Omaha, and as a matter of fact, there's a photo that I put up on LinkedIn about a month ago. Of the three of us, you, Ryan and I, standing next to a bronze statue of your father that was commissioned by by Ron wanick at Ashley Furniture industries. I shared that photo with Ron because I was proud of the fact that a we had met with each other, and I knew he would, he would love that story and be that we posed with that with that statue. When I when I texted that to Ron wonk, of course, founder and chairman of Ashley Furniture industries, for any of our audience members who don't recognize that name, but Ron has been on the podcast now twice himself. And he TechEd me back, and he said that your father, Louie, was one of the best businessmen he had ever known. And I told Ron. I said, Ron, you're one of the best business people that I've ever known. So if he's saying that somebody else is one of the best business people that Ron has ever known, that is super, super high praise coming from Ron wanick. So talk just a moment, if you would about your dad, a war hero, by the way, or World War Two war hero. And then if you wouldn't mind about your relationship with with Ashley Furniture indices, which is, by the way, the conduit through which we had the opportunity to meet each other last summer.

Irv Blumkin: 12:43

My father was a great mentor. He was a great teacher. I fortunately got to spend most of my life being the understudy to him. And so I was really, really lucky. And you know, he had a temperament about him. He was very focused and very passionate. He was here for the customer, and always trying to fight to give value to the customer. I remember a couple stories where I would be saying, Dad, how come? How come you're selling this thing so cheap? And he looked at me in the face. He says, Son, when was the last time you lost a meal? And the idea was he was giving me a lesson about, you know, take care of the customer, and they'll take care of you, and they're not going to forget, and it builds loyalty and long term kind of thinking, and whether it was the merchandising part of the business that he taught me, or hard work focus, and so I was just one of the one of the luckiest guys in the world to be associated with my father and being able to train under him, because he was, he was a great businessman, a great merchant. You know, he was unbelievable at determining what was best for the customers. And that sort of relates to Ron wanick and and Ron was an unbelievable entrepreneurial person, you know, we've been doing business with him for almost 50 years. My father adored Ron. He had that same spirit of doing what's right, tremendous integrity, always figuring out a way to give customers good value. He was one of the very first in our industry who developed this gross margin return on investment and taught people about how to turn inventory. He was always continuously learning. He was one of the first who went overseas and between automation and between productivity and efficiency. They are an unbelievable company, and his son, Todd, is equally a great leader. They're they're focused, they're honest, they're very innovative. They're always, you know, they're a learning organization, as you well know, and I got the chance, along with Ryan, to travel with him over to China and with you too, Matt. And as you well know, it was an unbelievable education. And no matter whether you're Ron or you're Todd, they're always wanting to learn, always wanting to continuously and. Prove and always wanted to be the best

Matt Kirchner: 15:01

there is absolutely and I love the idea of, you know, the the next generation of the leadership of that company, in the form of Todd wanick, who's himself, has been on the podcast a number of times, great, great friend. I've learned tremendous amounts from from Todd and Ron alike, and to see that that company, and I know Ron, has told me that one of the greatest blessings of his life was to be able to work so closely, as he has with his his son, Todd, and to see it in such great hands and so successful and under the under the leadership of an individual that, to your point, is an absolute lifelong learner, is imminently curious, is always trying to figure out how to make that business that much better, because it is a journey. We never quite get there. And there's always one more thing that we can improve in our companies. And it's been, it's been an absolute pleasure and honor to work with both of those folks. You know, as they've passed their their business from one generation to the next, we've got several generations of your family here on the podcast. We're going to get to Ryan in just a minute. But before we do that, Irv, you know, so you've built this incredible I don't know if calling it an empire is too big a word, but I'll use that word I mean disease is incredible campuses and in Omaha and Kansas and in Dallas, the new one in Austin that I know we want to spend some time talking about to this idea of continually growing our companies, of never being done, of always having one more hill to climb. Tell us about what the future growth opportunities are for a company like Nebraska for

Irv Blumkin: 16:23

intermart, you know, there's this huge opportunity on the connected both with AI and the web and understanding, you know, how customers shop. So there's great opportunity there. And then we're always looking for categories that fit to the home in one way or another, and that we can enhance the customer experience and give them, give them a good value at what it is that we do. And we're we're just always open and always looking. And one thing that my father has taught us is you don't want to get too big too fast. So we're very steady. We're very long term. We would rather grow steadily than all of a sudden, you know, just popping. Then all of a sudden, one day, you you know, it's too big, too fast, or whatever it happened to be. So there's always opportunities. We're always looking to grow. You can't stand still. You have to adapt to the change. There's so much change going on right now, but we've got this long term view. Our family's always had it. Mr. Buffett has always had it, and you figure out how to adapt and build a moat that it's not so easy to attack. And occasionally you get a few leaks, and you try to, you try to stop the leaks. And so we continually are focused and taking care of the customer.

Matt Kirchner: 17:33

And that's one of the beautiful things about, you know, a family owned company, obviously Berkshire Hathaway owned company as well, but that long term view, the fact that, you know, when you don't have to answer quarter by quarter for every little thing that happens. And we have the same things in our businesses where, and I've been in businesses where you had to report out to somebody every month or every quarter, and it really drove, you know, decision making in some cases, that wasn't always with the long term best ideas at hand in here you are in an organization where you know all these years later, 87 years later, you're able to take the long term view of the business, to grow at a steady pace, to not bite off more than you can chew, but also recognize that a growing company is a company that's alive and providing opportunities, and one that's standing still. Eventually, folks are going to start to catch up so continually innovating, continuing finding ways, adapting to new technologies, as you suggest really, really important ways of looking at a business like yours. And I want to get into a little bit of that with Ryan. You know, Ryan, I want to before we talk about the, you know, the technology and the digital and you know how you, you know, compete, if you will, with, you know, some of the marketplaces. And, you know, cooperate with them as well. When I say digital marketplaces, like Amazon, Wayfair, Walmart and others, before we get into that, you and I were talking, and this is where I just kind of got blown away about this, this development you're doing in Austin, and you know what this campus is going to look like, and everything that's going to be available to a customer that comes onto that campus. Can you just give our audience a little bit of a sense for, like, what that experience is like for the customer, so they get an idea, you know, is, I didn't have as good an ideas until you, you and I talked a bit about what you're actually doing. Tell the story about this campus in Austin, then we'll get into some of the digital stuff?

Ryan Blumkin: 19:21

Yeah, sure. So we purchased 120 acres in Austin, and the Nebraska Furniture Mart store will take about 70 of those acres. So far, we've announced shields, which will do about a 300,000 square foot store immediately next door, and then we've got a 297 room Marriott Hotel and Convention Center are the three anchors of the development. So when you think about for us, it's unit expansion, but you know, when you need a minimum, you know 60 acres, and you have this big industrial component on the one hand, with all the trucks. They have to get in and get out, and then you've got this retail component. On the other hand, you have to think and start with infrastructure. So the physical development, you know, we are, we have a in this particular development. We have about $85 million of off site public infrastructure that's required to make it so people can get in and get out of the development efficiently. And then you think of, okay, so they're now to the development, but we've got to get them to the right place. And there's all these giant, massive buildings. So, you know, you have a substantial way finding layer, you know, and then we become huge tax generators from for the government. And so the government has a big say, a big say in this as well. And so we work a lot with with with governments to make sure that at the end of the day, the project is both economically viable for them and for us, and that we're also delivering what it is that they need in in their community. So it's a true win, win. So, so, so now we get to to to the development, and let's go. We're going to the to the NFM store. We have a we'll have in this development, a parking garage of about 1100 stalls, plus another about 1600 surface stalls. Oh, we call it catering from the masses to the classes, okay? And so our breadth is very, very large. So generally, we don't serve the bottom 20% or the top 1% but we serve everything, everybody else in between. There again, our categories, furniture, flooring, appliances and electronics, and depending on the category, it's a good, better, best, or if it's furniture, it's style, is how it's displayed. And it's displayed in we always keep it fresh. So if you come in the store one month, and you come in the next month, you know what you saw and where it was could be vastly, vastly different. And then there's so I don't know if that paints the picture on this store, but it's massive.

Matt Kirchner: 22:11

I wanted to give the audience a sense for the scale of what you're doing. You talk about a store that's 70 acres, a development that's 120 acres, all these parking stalls, a 270 unit hotel and Convention Center, a company, you know, retail destination like shields, which is, you know, we have them in our neck of the woods as well. Absolutely incredible store. So, I mean, this isn't like your little corner furniture store, right? I mean, you are doing this on a huge, huge scale. And you talk about numbers like $85 million in public infrastructure. I really, I think that helps the audience to understand, you know, when you're building a $2 billion company, as you have, you're doing this at a at a huge, huge scale, with tremendous amounts of vision, tremendous amounts of intention, and just absolutely fascinating the way you're going about doing this, and in an era, and I think it's, I think it's a it's a beautiful way that you're going about and as far as you know, destination retail. But that's not the way that everybody is buying everything these days. And I should add by the way, it was occurring to me as you were going through, you know, your description, and having walked through your your retail center in in Omaha, in your quizzing, Irv about, like, how much would that sofa costs? And he's like, you know, nailing it within like, one half of 1% of the price, I mean, and just how well he knows that business, but, you know, down all the way down to the individual skew, but, but also recognizing, you know, to your point, that this is, this is a destination for, really buyers of almost every economic bracket and every interest. And as we got deeper and deeper into the store, you've got different levels of, you know, of quality, I guess, or you know that it's going to appeal to different different types of buyers. So really, really cool experience, and, and, and also credit to Irv for just his incredible all the way down to every minute detail, his understanding and knowledge of that business and and I know you're not arguing with me either, and neither. Neither is Herve so we're all agreeing on that part of it. So go ahead. Were you gonna say something?

Ryan Blumkin: 24:09

Yeah, I can't tell you how many times in my life I've woken up to Irv ripping po reports. He will every single line item of what we receive, and then to make sure that no competitors see it. He he rips it. And so probably about 30% of my life, I've woken up to him going through these reports

Matt Kirchner: 24:30

that's beautiful, and then being his own Shredder, just shredding that so that it doesn't fall in the hands of anybody else that's that's absolutely beautiful. And I could totally, totally envision that, who needs an alarm clock when you've got herb ripping the PO reports, right? So, so speaking of alarm clocks and alarms going off in the in the retail market, you know your your market is changing. We saw some of this real firsthand, by the way, when we when we spent some time in Asia together. But as things are becoming more more digital. And I know you've got plans for this, but you know. Given the bricks and mortar, you know, presence that you have, how does all that play into the president and Future Planning for a company like NFM?

Ryan Blumkin: 25:08

So we think that, you know, a lot of stores have gone down in terms of their in terms of their size and what they're building. Their new units are smaller format. And we think that's a huge differentiator for us at the end of the day, though. I mean, whether it's Amazon, Costco, Wayfair, these are very viable threats, and it to our business, but it's very interesting. So Amazon recently came to us and said, Hey, we would be interested in doing a store within your store, because nobody, at the end of the day can display the products with the, you know, professional sales skills that our folks have. And so, you know, it is interesting. It provides a partnership opportunity, where you know your competitors in one sense, but at the same time, you can help each other, help each other. And so you know the customer is going to shop how they want to shop. Generally, furniture is the third most friction filled purchase, after a house and a car. And so, you know, there's lots of there's lots of furniture that it's more and more conducive. And we saw this in China to buy online. It's it. You can put it together. It's easy to ship. It's the lower, it's a relatively low price point. And so we've got to play in that space, and and we do play in that space. And then there's, you know, bigger purchases where, hey, I've got to touch this, I've got to feel this. I've got to see is the pitch, right? Is the depth? Right? Is the hand on that right? And, and there's a mix, right? And I think almost all customers out there are going to at some points in their life say, I want to touch it, feel it, see it. And I think those same customers at some point in their life are going to say, that's an easy thing to click the

Matt Kirchner: 27:07

Buy button. Sure. Yeah. And you know, I would speak, speaking from experience. And you think about it sounds kind of weird to say, maybe, but the relationship you have with your furniture, right? So I've got, like, the same chair in the back of our house to kind of overlooks our our yard where I sit in the morning and I read the Wall Street Journal and I have my cup of coffee, and I'm in that chair every morning for somewhere between 45 minutes and an hour. And you know, then the couch that I sit on in our in our family room, if I'm going to flip on the TV at the end of the day or spend some time catching up on my social feeds or whatever, sitting in the same spot, I'm the guy, by the way, that there's just no way I'm buying furniture unless I can go, I can sit in and I can make sure it feels perfect. And the reason for that is that you spend so much, so much time with it, you want to make sure that that's perfect. So I and I think I can, I can totally see that. And then we see like, things like the human dog bed that we saw in China. I haven't yet forgotten the human dog bed. People can look that up if they if they're interesting, but literally, like a dog bed that's big enough for a human being to, you know, to lay in. Kind of weird, but the best selling item, I think, of the E commerce company we were visiting with on that day. Maybe that's something that you're a little bit more willing to buy on, buy online. Go ahead and buy your buy your dog bed, moving moving on from that to dynamic pricing models. So when we were walking through the physical space in your store, Ryan, one of the things that you pointed out to me was how you know, first of all, how price sensitive your products are, and you know, consumers have so many options for how, where, when they when they shop, and they're basically swimming in a tremendous amount of information anymore. You can walk through somebody's store with your smartphone and kind of check anything you want, you're literally able to change pricing real time, like on an ongoing basis, right? Talk about just that pricing model and how you're using technology that really impressed me.

Ryan Blumkin: 28:52

Yeah, it is amazing how prices, market prices on things, change and many places, many retailers are reacting to other retailers. So what we do is, every night, we we web crawl about 70,000 different SKUs that we have amongst seven different competitors, and we automatically update our prices within given parameters. It's a vast majority of them to be the lowest. And so it's easy to do online, but in the store, it's a little more difficult. So we have a physical pricing infrastructure where we have digital price tags and all these stations throughout where we can beam updated prices to to to the price tags, because at the end of the day, our our word to the customer is we are the best value. That's what found our business, and that's what that's what keeps us a strong business today, and I think over time, no matter what, value always wins. If you can give customers consistent. Recently the best value that's available. You've built a big moat, and you've got a business that will sustain long into the future. And so when we put all this digital pricing assets in place, it was our long term commitment to be in the best value to customers. Today. It's so transparent. It's so transparent, anybody can look and so you may as well just proactively give everybody the best price.

Matt Kirchner: 30:24

Yeah, absolutely. They're gonna figure it out quickly enough anyway. So you might as well have that, have that dynamic pricing ability, and back it with technology, which you certainly did, and was was really, really impressive when we spent that time walking through what you're walking through your store. You know when we talk about value, and to me, it's always, it's not necessarily being the lowest price. It's being the lowest price for what the customer is purchasing and what they're buying, whether that's whether that's quality or suitability, or whatever it is that they're valuing, proximity to to them, as far as the inventory and so on. So that, you know that value is a big part of the customer experience. We talked a little bit about the scale of the developments that you're that you're putting together, you know, talk, if you would, Ryan, about the experience of a client or a customer when they're walking in the front door of a Nebraska Furniture Mart. What's that experience that you're looking to to create for them? And then, how do you? How do you, how do you go about driving that through your culture?

Ryan Blumkin: 31:16

Yeah, so no two customers are exactly the same, right? And so I'll just give you what could be many husband and wife couples. You have one of them that's particularly interested in in furniture and spending a whole day and understanding it. And you may have another person I happen to fall in this category myself, of like a prisoner shopper. I have to be there, but I really, you know if she's happy, that generally I'm happy. But so we want to make it where, regardless of where you are on this spec spectrum, anywhere from prisoner no desire to be there, to somebody who's just all about this, we've got, we've got something for you, so it can be our design gallery with design services, and they'll even come to your house and they'll help you. They'll help you through the entire the entire process. So that can be one extreme, the other is, I want to just get in and get one little accessory in electronics. I want to be in and out of there in five or seven minutes. And so we have, you know, our store is open, the sight lines are you can see wherever you want to go and see throughout the store. But, and I tell you, I think it's a beautiful store environment, and this is thanks to my dad is really the driver and the innovator behind the retail, physical floor experience. He this guy can spot a spot, a stain on carpet from 300 feet away, could you not?

Matt Kirchner: 32:52

I believe it absolutely well, and just, you know, to add a little bit to that, you know, as we were walking through your store in Omaha, and you've got, you've got the eSports area, where, if somebody's into eSports, they've got, you know, you've got products and technology. There you have, you know, basically a whole apple store sitting right in the middle of your store. And so, you know, and as I understand it, a really, really successful one in terms of the volume you're doing there relative to other Apple stores as well. So, so it really is, you know, you get it. You think in Nebraska Furniture Mart, obviously the name furniture right in the middle, but, you know, but the fact that you're doing appliances, you're doing electronics and flooring and so on, really does create a lot of different experiences for the shopper. It was, it's interesting. I was in Santa Barbara last week, and my wife, Renee, and I were out on a walk, and there was a sign, and it's in, we were in a shopping district, right, and there was a sign that said, husband daycare free beer, or husband daycare free daycare. It's just that you had to buy the beer so, so like, you know, you could go to this bar and that was your husband daycare, and then the wife could go and and do her shopping for what have you you know, in this case, the logic of setting a shields right next to the store. I don't know if that's an accident or not, but if you are that husband that doesn't necessarily want to spend two hours, you know, two hours in the looking for furniture, the reward for that can be going next door and spending two hours looking at guns and fishing rods. Is that the idea

Ryan Blumkin: 34:16

that is, yeah, it's not. It's not by accident. We actually shields is in our development in the Dallas area as well. Okay, our front doors happen to be 1600 feet away from each other. Okay, this time, this time they're gonna be right next to each other.

Matt Kirchner: 34:30

Yeah, absolutely. So that's the you do the furniture shopping first, and then the reward is you get to go. Or maybe it's the other way around. Maybe if the wife goes and looks at tents and camping supplies, and then the, you know, or, and maybe, it's the wife that wants the sporting goods and the husband that's fascinating by the furniture. Go ahead, Irv, you have something there.

Irv Blumkin: 34:45

It's just the idea of feeding off of each other's traffic. And you know, the business, the physical business, is all about eyeballs and getting people into your store and putting us closer together, because they get 1000s of shoppers and. Week, we get 1000s of shoppers a week. It gives us the opportunity to do a lot of cross selling and merchandising between the stores. And you know, they're both, they're both phenomenal retail

Matt Kirchner: 35:11

destinations, absolutely. And I can attest to that without question, and in part, due to the technology you're using and the amazing careers you've created for so many, so many folks. One more quick question for you, Ryan, and then we've got some general some general questions about our trip to China, but talk about the careers that are available at a company like NFM on the technology side, if I'm a student, we have students and teachers, particularly in the STEM area, that listen to this podcast every single week. If I'm one of those individuals, and I'm thinking about an amazing career. What are the opportunities at NFM,

Ryan Blumkin: 35:44

yeah, so focusing primarily on the IT area. You know, we have big, complex networks, distribution networks, so how do we get the right product at the right place, at the right time? And so there's a number of jobs within that core, within that piece of our business, really, at the end of the day, in order to deliver customers great value, you have to be excellent operators, and so, you know, and we're now really evolving on AI our China trip was, was very eye opening. So there was process advancement, right? And and how can we use these new AI tools to help us increase the efficiency of our process? So we've got, we've got some new jobs that are focused on that the process improvement will use through using new AI tools that are available. And, yeah, those would be two examples.

Matt Kirchner: 36:47

Yeah, those are great examples. And I think was there a third one you wanted to add there? No, that's no, okay, we're all good. So exactly I mean, and I think I want to make sure that our young people hear that loud and clear, that these opportunities we talk on this podcast all the time about AI, about computer science, about about building algorithms, about understanding applied artificial intelligence, physical intelligence, and so on. And so here you've got, you know, two folks that are running is just this behemoth of a furniture retailer and flooring and electronics and appliances and so on. Saying, hey, AI is core to the future of our business as well. So making sure that our young people hear that it artificial intelligence, hearing that loud and clear. Ryan used the term Irv, eye opening regarding this trip to China. And, you know, I'm sure our audience is like, wow. Matt talks about China every week. I mean, it was that. It was that transformative for me. We just, you know, every single conversation I find myself in, I'm talking about this week that we spent together in August of 2025 is visiting something like 26 tech companies in six days. If we talk about eye openers and things that were surprising, I've certainly got my list. But what are some of the things that are near the top of yours,

Irv Blumkin: 37:59

the speed of change that we saw was very impactful, because, you know, we're living in a global society in the between artificial intelligence and how many resources are put into that, between automation and robotics, and just the sophistication on the AI side in dealing with E commerce that we saw. Those were, those were all hugely, hugely impactful. And getting back a little bit to your question about it, and and your, you know, your younger listeners, it's it. It's great having my son here. He's young a young thinker. He's outside of the box. Having young people with young minds and not having definitive ways of doing things, provides an opportunity for an organization who's a learning organization, whether it be in it or any other other place, to really provide tremendous opportunities for people to to learn. And just like when we went to China and learned about AI and how it's impacting so many processes, or you went and saw some physical warehouses where there was automation and advanced automation scene, or when we went to e commerce places and saw how they were using technology to drive business and change. And, you know, it was, it was fascinating. In fact, Matt, it was so fascinating. We're going back in 10 days. Are you really? How awesome is that we're taking a group of another group of our people, because I want them to see the speed, the change, the scrappiness, the intelligence, the learning that so we can as a company come back and adapt and execute on some of the things that we saw and learn, and

Matt Kirchner: 39:53

it was all that, right, speed, change, scrappiness. I mean, we were in technology companies where people were working at eight o'clock. Night we were in I mean, really, I was just talking about this with Todd wanak On a recent episode. Really entrepreneurial, capitalistic. I mean, things I just did not expect to see in China. Maybe, maybe I was naive, but I just it was a super, super eye opener for me, and I'm glad Ryan used those words. And so coming back to you, Ryan, what were some of the eye openers for you?

Ryan Blumkin: 40:21

The lack of bureaucracy and how that aids in their speed. And the other thing that was just fascinating to me is they don't have any preconceived notions about intellectual Pro, about IP everybody's gonna knock everything off, and the only way for them to win isn't to go and try to try to get IP lawsuits, and it's to make a better product faster. And that came through to me very loud and clear. You remember one of the furniture companies that we went to? They said, Yeah, well, somebody just knocked this off. So their timeline, I think, was three or four weeks of we're going to redesign it. We're going to redesign it better. We're going to make it ship in smaller case, and we're going to be out in the market three to four weeks with it. And so then, even though they knocked us off, we're just going to get better faster. Night, that mindset was, was eye opening to me.

Matt Kirchner: 41:20

That's, you know, I mean, some of those were some of the same reflections I had. I think you put it much more eloquently and distinctly. But man, the whole idea that moment when somebody was like, Yeah, well, somebody will come knock us off. And it was like, like, here in the US, if I'm competing with, like, Whatever, whatever other company is in my space, and it's like, that's like, they're, I don't know your enemy, or they're the, you know, the powers of dark and evil on the other side of the, you know, the market or whatever. And here they're just like, like, you said, shrug their shoulders. It's like, okay, somebody else is in our space. We got to go create a new space. And they go off and do it, and they don't even, it wasn't even emotional for them. It's just like, all right, this is the next iteration in our business. So, super, super eye opening. And then the fact that you, you mentioned, you know, this whole idea of the open, the open IP, and how, you know, all their open source code and everything, I mean, that was another huge takeaway for me. You were going to add

Ryan Blumkin: 42:16

something, right, and just how absolutely ruthless they are, right? The one, the one that came to mind is where they had these AI programs, updating their IP address and hitting their product or their competitors marketplace ads and burning down their budget and at the same time reducing their conversion so that their products would go up and, you know, I, I don't know if I call that the most ethical practice, but it's, it's ruthless, and it was eye opening to see, yeah,

Matt Kirchner: 42:50

it certainly was. I just I that that too, that that picture will be completely forever burned in my brain, of those two monitors sitting on that table and just scrolling up and down her view as well,

Irv Blumkin: 43:02

absolutely it was, it was, it was unbelievable. But that's all part of the learning. You got to be aware of these kind of things, because it's happening.

Matt Kirchner: 43:10

It is. It's absolutely happening. You know, when Todd wanick was on with us, he's talking about, you know, how his pathway and his strategy to implement some of the things that we saw in China, back, back in their business, here, in the US and of course, globally, are there a few takeaways Irv that you know don't share anything that you can't but, but that you're actively thinking about implementing at NFM based upon what we saw in China?

Irv Blumkin: 43:34

Yes, on the E commerce side, we're considering implementing that lower part of the market that we may be giving up now because, one, we weren't as aware of it and and now understand it, and it's classic disruption. If they're going to go after that low end, eventually they're going to go after the better end. So we would never want to give that up. The the whole asset light model was a very good learning lesson that, you know, they've got these three PL warehouses sitting in the United States, and we have the opportunity to take advantage of that and also improve our business. And then the whole AI in every part of the business, and the the we saw, as you well, know, this four way automation, and that could play a huge role in our warehouses over time, as we want to upgrade and add to increase productivity and efficiency.

Matt Kirchner: 44:32

You know, I think about that time we spent in, quote, The Nike of China and seeing how they were moving inventory all over that facility. And it didn't matter the size of the container, the size of the box, the number of units, whatever. I mean there was, there were people working on the front end taking product off of trucks that didn't come in necessarily standardized or uniform. And then people working on the back end for doing some of the one off packaging to go out to individual retail facilities. And everything in the middle was 100% automated, using autonomous one. Robots. And that was another moment for me that just walking through that facility, I'll remember that one forever as well. Ryan, how about you? You know thoughts on on your side of the organization where you've got some takeaways that you're thinking about putting

Ryan Blumkin: 45:13

to work? For me, it's it's the tools that are available now to help us improve efficiencies in our processes. And so you know that the middleware company that we went to, defi, I believe Yep, it was Yep, defe, yep. Those tools, to me, are absolutely fascinating that we are starting to get our heads around at the same time, you know, we saw a lot of robots and, and I think drawing people to our store, their experiential stores, and showing off some of those robots, they were cool for us to see. And, and I think they're a lot more prominent in China than they are here. But imagining some of those robots going around our store, I think would really help. It's experiential, and it would definitely drive incremental visits,

Matt Kirchner: 46:10

yeah, for sure. And it really kind of kind of shows the wide array of different applications for humanoid robots, where a lot of people just think, Oh, those are for manufacturing or what have you, or for distribution and logistics. But, you know, having a humanoid robot welcome somebody into a store and direct them to the right, you know, to the right area the store, those kind of things would be probably a novelty at first, and then over the course of time, maybe even, you know, part of the the general business model. But it's going to be fascinating to see where, where some of that technology, particularly on the humanoid side, takes us. And then, yeah, that trip to defeat that was the middleware side of things was absolutely fascinating for me as well. I feel like we could talk about this for, you know, for another couple hours. Of course, we were limited a little bit in time, so I want to get the the last two questions we love asking every single one of our of our guests here on the TechEd podcast. We'll start with Irv with this first one. You know, we all have our own educational journey, and mine was different from both of yours. And you know, to your point, every consumer is different, every student is different as well, but having been a student and a lifelong learner as well, or can you tell me a little bit about whether there's something in your background from an education standpoint, or something you believe about how we how we should educate the next generation that would surprise people a little

Irv Blumkin: 47:23

bit for me, I've, I've had the opportunity to continue my education. I still go to, I go to executive education, and have been for maybe 25 years now. And just the idea of continuously learning, continuously learning on leadership, on management, on innovation, on culture, on values, vision that for a young person, you never for you never stop learning, and you never stop thinking. You know it all, and if the more that the more that you can expose yourself to opportunities to learn and to get educated the better choice you'll make in making the right decisions.

Matt Kirchner: 48:09

No question about that lifelong learning, and you've certainly proven that. And to be, you know, at the at the stage of your career, with the incredible success that you've had, and to say you've been involved in executive learning for 25 years, that really is an example that we never quite figure all this out. It's never perfect. There's always something changing, and we have to continually educate ourselves, upskill ourselves and be committed to lifelong learning. So love that wouldn't wouldn't disagree for a moment, because I think about it exactly the same way. Ryan beat that. That was a pretty good answer from from your dad there. What's something about education that that you believe that would surprise folks.

Ryan Blumkin: 48:42

This was interesting from China. For me, I think that their education system is quite a bit different than our education system, and it is the case in point about that was how much they embrace AI. Wait, you didn't use AI for to do that homework. What are you thinking? You took an inefficient route, right? And for us, it's, you know, I think it's becoming more accepted, but it's almost like, like, like, like, cheating. Feels like cheating, but it's, it's because of the rules that we've created. And at the end of the day, the actual outcomes are what is going to count, and if AI can aid in those outcomes, you darn well better use it, because I can guarantee you people who are competing with or against us are using it. This is quite obvious, but interest. Interest drives passion. It drives energy. It drives love for a particular topic, and prioritize whatever interests you would be the best advice that I could have. You know, our education system often, you know, it's memorizing facts. It's showing that you can listen to directions. I wasn't always great at that. I'm still not that makes two of us right and. And I think challenge

Matt Kirchner: 50:01

entry, by the way, was Ryan never good at following direction?

Irv Blumkin: 50:04

100% true. He had his own set of rules.

Ryan Blumkin: 50:07

I bet he did. Go ahead Ryan and yeah, no. So challenging some of that status quo and making people think is the most important thing. It's not about learning facts. It's about learning how to think and why to think that way.

Matt Kirchner: 50:20

Absolutely, I love that. And one of the things I love about the applications of artificial intelligence and the opportunity as it relates to education is to be able to meet every learner where they are. We all learn differently, and we're, you know, if we do chase those interests and we and they're all different, if you could teach somebody something in the realm of the world where they have interest and they have a fascination, it's going to stick that much more. So agree 100% we're going to keep it with Ryan for our final question. Then over to Irv. This is another question we love asking every guest here on the TechEd podcast. We're going to turn the clock back a little bit, Ryan, before your kids, before your your incredible role that you have at NFM, before our trip to China, a long, long time before that, all the way to when you're a 15 year old kid, you're a sophomore in high school. You're doing your best to follow Earth's directions, but not doing it very well. If we could go, if we could go back all that way to your 15 year old self, and you could give that 15 year old Ryan one piece of advice, what would it be?

Ryan Blumkin: 51:14

I think it would be slow down Tiger. I was, I was very impatient at that age and forced a lot of things. And I, I think that's, that's what I'd tell you.

Matt Kirchner: 51:32

Got it well, I have no idea where that drive and that speed would have come from, unless maybe from the gentleman next to you. But would that have been good advice for Ryan to slow down a little bit? IRF back then absolutely.

Irv Blumkin: 51:42

And not only what is a good advice for him, but I wrote down being patient. We didn't trade thoughts on this at all. But you know, at the end of the day, looking back and I would say having patience, and I still don't have that much patience. But if I was going back both around patience and clarity, would would be what I would say absolutely.

Matt Kirchner: 52:13

I love that, but coming from both of you, and basically the same advice you would each give to your 15 year old self and and probably fortunate for the world that maybe it didn't slow down so much and you were much and you weren't so patient, because obviously you've built an incredible, incredible company. But, but, but I, but I hear you, and I hear what you're saying in the world does a plan for us, and it unfolds itself as as time goes on, and oftentimes we don't understand what that plan is until much later. But maybe being a little bit more patient along the way wouldn't hurt any of us, myself included. I'm glad we weren't all that patient waiting to get this podcast up, I mean, and get together with you guys. We pushed for this because we thought it was important. It was really fun for me to rekindle a little bit of the fun that we had, the fascination we had in China spending all the time, not just in and out of like 26 tech companies in six days, but but on the bus in between those those visits and getting to know both of you, it's a true blessing of 2025 for me to have spent the time that we did together, to have you both on the podcast to talk about the really incredible work you were doing it at NFM so Ryan Blumpkin, Irv Blumpkin, to both of you, thanks so much for coming on.

Irv Blumkin: 53:20

Thank you, Matt. It's been a great pleasure. Thanks.

Matt Kirchner: 53:22

Matt. Really enjoyed having both Ryan bumpkin, the Executive Vice President of Nebraska Furniture Mart, and Irv bumpkin, that organization's Distinguished Chairman, on with me here on the TechEd podcast. Learned so much about the work that they're doing, about what we learned in China, about the advice that they would give to their 15 year old selves. Had so much fun with both of them. We're going to do a couple things, first of all, for the show notes, and we had a number of references that we brought up over the course of our discussion. Today, we're going to link those up at TechEd podcast.com/n f, M, that's TechEd podcast.com and then three letters, the letter N, the letter F and the letter M, for Nebraska Furniture mark, that's NFN. When you're done there checking out those show notes, check us out on social media. We'll be on Tiktok. You'll find us on LinkedIn. You can find us on YouTube, you can find us on Instagram, on Facebook, wherever you go to consume your social media, you will find the TechEd podcast. You will find us right here again next week as well. My name is Matt Kirkner. Thank you so much for being with us. You.