How Amazon Trains the Techs that Keep their Automated Facilities Running - Amanda Willard & Logan Schulz, Amazon RME

What actually happens inside those massive Amazon facilities—and how do products arrive at your door with such astonishing speed?

In this episode of The TechEd Podcast, host Matt Kirchner explores these questions with Amanda Willard, Strategic Workforce Development, and Logan Schulz, Senior Manager of Reliability & Maintenance Engineering at Amazon. They take us behind the scenes of the advanced robotics, mechatronics, and automation systems that power Amazon’s fulfillment network—and the skilled technicians who keep the entire operation running.

Amanda and Logan share how the Reliability & Maintenance Engineering (RME) team prepares the workforce behind this technology, including Amazon’s mechatronics and robotics apprenticeship. They reveal what today’s technicians actually do, the durable skills that matter most, and how Amazon develops talent capable of maintaining one of the world’s most complex automation ecosystems.

Listen to learn:

• How Amazon uses robotics, AMRs, vision systems, and miles of automation to move products at remarkable speed
• What actually happens inside the RME apprenticeship, from 12 weeks of training to 2,000 hours of structured mentorship
• Why durable skills like troubleshooting, analytics, and system connectivity matter more than any specific technology
• How data, AI, and predictive maintenance are reshaping the technician’s role
• What technical educators should teach now to prepare learners for next-generation automation careers

3 Big Takeaways from this Episode:

1. Maintenance roles have shifted from mechanical work to high-level cognitive problem-solving. Technicians at Amazon diagnose interconnected networks, sensors, PLC systems, and smart devices alongside mechanical equipment. This evolution requires system-level thinking, the ability to interpret data, and strong analytical abilities—skills that anchor long-term career growth.

2. Apprenticeships are a business strategy that strengthens the entire talent pipeline. Amazon’s mechatronics and robotics apprenticeship builds internal talent, increases employee retention, and prepares the workforce for future technology needs. With industry certifications, structured mentorship, and extensive hands-on training, the program creates a sustainable pipeline of highly skilled technicians.

3. Durable skills prepare learners for technologies that don’t exist yet. Troubleshooting methods, programming fundamentals, data analytics, and understanding how systems interconnect form the foundation technicians will rely on as automation accelerates. As AI, predictive maintenance, and IoT devices expand, adaptability and analytical reasoning will matter more than the specific robots or tools a technician first learned on.

Resources in this Episode:

Learn more about Amazon Reliability & Maintenance Engineering

Learn more about the Amazon RME Mechatronics & Robotics Apprenticeship program

Find more resources on the episode page! https://techedpocdast.com/amazon

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Transcript

TechEd Podcast Introduction: 0:09

This is the TechEd podcast, where we feature leaders who are shaping, innovating and disrupting technical education and the workforce. These are the stories of organizations leading the charge to change education, to rethink the workforce and to embrace emerging technology. You'll find us here every Tuesday on our mission to secure the American Dream for the next generation of STEM and workforce talent. And now here's your host, Matt Kirchner,

Matt Kirchner: 0:38

welcome into the TechEd podcast. My name is Matt Kirkner. I am your host. Who among us who listening to this episode of The TechEd podcast hasn't at some point driven by an Amazon distribution center, gigantic building, sometimes building after building after building, huge parking lots full of cars, full of trucks, amazing, amazing facilities. Who among us hasn't driven by one of those and wondered, what goes on inside of that? What kind of work are those people doing? What kind of technology goes on in an Amazon distribution center today, and what will that technology look like in the future? What careers might be available for me or my kids or a member of my family at an Amazon facility? We're going to explore all of those questions today with some really, really cool guests. I'm super, super fired up for this episode of The TechEd podcast. I am joined this week by Amanda Willard. Amanda is responsible for Strategic Workforce Development and Logan Schultz, Senior Manager of Amazon reliability and maintenance engineering. Amanda and Logan, thank you so much for being with me. We're excited to be here. Yeah, we're so excited to have both of you, and it's gonna be an engaging conversation. And in that intro, I'm being sincere. I mean, I've always kind of wondered what goes on back there. I know that technology is amazing. I know that Amazon is incredibly forward thinking, incredibly advanced when it comes to distribution, manufacturing technology, logistical technology, so I'm looking forward to learning all about that. And let's start there, Logan and Logan, I'm just curious. So give us a little bit of a sense for the technology I might see if I walked in the door. Yeah.

Logan Schulz: 2:14

I mean, when you look inside of our buildings, depending on which kind of operation they may hold inside of our fulfillment centers, you'll see incredibly sophisticated ecosystem of just automation. We have robotic drives that move products to and from folks that are packing and entire pods of inventory. These pods can carry up to 1500 pounds on robotic drive units, automated conveyor systems that go miles throughout a single building. We've now got computer vision systems, advanced sortation equipment, and robotic arms that are making sure that we're providing every smile, especially during this time during the holiday season, our army and technicians are the folks that we support. Amanda and I are the technicians that are behind that and making sure everything is maintained and troubleshooted. And really it's just a it's like, as I would look at it as like an orchestra. It's like a symphony of robotics. And robotics and automation that runs 24/7

Matt Kirchner: 3:05

I knew that this was going to be a great episode. And when I hear words like automation, robotics, autonomous, mobile robots, vision systems and ecosystem of technology, you know, AMRs and conveyor material and equipment moving products a mile through through a fulfillment center. I mean, that's exactly the kind of stuff that we groove on here at the TechEd podcast. So super, super excited for the way that you teed that up Logan, because, because that is what we're into, and especially when it comes to that technology, what kind of careers and opportunities get associated with that? You know when, when you think about you just mentioned reliability, you mentioned troubleshooting, you mentioned you mentioned maintenance. Talk about why that is so mission critical. You know, we think about these careers in electromechanical technology and automation, maintenance technicians and so on. Why is that so important to the work that

Logan Schulz: 3:50

you're doing? I mean, did you look in today's environment? Everything is so automated that, I mean, our operation systems are going down to the minute to the second of how we're spanning and making sure, and Amazon is circled around delivering on that customer promise. So any amount of downtime can impact 1000s of customer orders, especially during this time. And so when we look at Mission Critical our technicians are really the guardians of that operational continuity and making sure that we are able to fulfill those customer promises, especially even during these peak seasons. And I would say is, as we see more automation, the maintenance side of the environment is even becoming more mission critical. We had leaders talk about historically, operations may have dictated 80% of the outcomes, and now it's the technology and the maintenance of that technology that dictates whether or not we hit our goals and being able to fulfill those promises on the majority of it.

Matt Kirchner: 4:45

And as we record this, we are sitting here at the height of the holiday season. In fact, thing you know, thanks to both Amanda and Logan for taking time out of their busy, busy days, because I know this is, this is like the Super Bowl I would imagine, right for Amazon. And you think about the the joy and that, and that incredible feeling. Of a miracle having happened when you order something on Amazon Prime, and in some cases, can show up, you know, a couple hours later at your doorstep. And how so many of us, myself included, have come to rely on on that type of service. And then here you have these fulfillment centers that are, you know, so highly technologically advanced that are making sure that the packages and products are running and ending up where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be there, and making sure that there aren't quality issues with them and so on, and all of those things so very important. And as soon as you have downtime, as soon as you have an issue from a maintenance standpoint or an uptime standpoint, obviously, all of that can be compromised. So we can really get a sense, especially at this time of the year, but really any time of the year. Logan, for how important the work that you're doing is now. Amanda, I spent a lot of time personally in manufacturing. We talk about that a lot here on the podcast. 30 years in manufacturing, still involved in a number of manufacturing companies. And the truth is, we've seen manufacturing technology becoming increasingly automated, increasingly complex over the years. I got to believe you see, you're seeing exactly the same kind of thing. In fact, I know that you are in the world of fulfillment, distribution and logistics. So talk a little bit about the advancing technology in how complex that technology is today versus what it might have been, you know, 1015, 20 years ago.

Amanda Willard: 6:19

So for the technology, specifically, what we're finding when it comes to our technicians is really a need for advanced skill sets. So there's this audience probably is fully familiar with the modern maintenance technician needs to be incredibly versatile. So it's well beyond there's just the traditional mechanical skills, but they need to understand programming, logic, network systems, data analytics, well beyond just what we would consider to be the traditional mechanical issues our technicians, just like other high tech manufacturers, our technicians need to be able to solve complex problems, and it's just not about turning the wrench anymore, as they are just as likely to be using a laptop to diagnose problems versus a hand tool in our current automated environments.

Matt Kirchner: 7:04

And I want to make sure that what you just said there, Amanda is screaming out at our young people who maybe have and I think more and more people have an understanding of in these environments, what kind of technology is there. We've come a long way in 10 years in terms of exposing young people to the amazing kinds of careers that we're talking about today. Still have some work to do, but, but, you know, if you're a student listening to this podcast, or, for that matter, someone who is considering a career change and so on, and you're thinking about this kind of a job, yeah, you're not walking in there with a box wrench and just turning nuts and bolts all day. I mean, there's some of that, but most of this is highly technological. You mentioned things like, you know, data analytics. You mentioned, you know they need to be, you know, conversant with the use of a computer to do troubleshooting, to monitor data, you know, to make sure that production and distribution technology is staying up to date, that it's not, you know, that it's not getting into a situation where we're losing throughput, where we're losing yield, where We're losing our ability to move product around the way that we that we need to in order to fulfill the needs of the consumer. So this is really, really cool technology. This isn't your grandfather's distribution facility, if ever there was one really, really cool technology. Now I also know, you know, as it does, anybody who spends time, you know, reading, keeping up with the news, understanding the world of skilled labor that Amazon, like any other company, has the same challenges in terms of accessing that next generation of talent as we continue to build it. More and more folks are retiring from jobs like this, as the baby boomers continue to age out of the workforce that leads leaves a gap in you know, some of the earlier ranks of maintenance technicians, of electromechanical technicians, of automation technicians. I know that's got to be at least part of the reason that you're so focused on apprenticeships. And I want to have an opportunity to talk about the mechatronics and robotics apprenticeship at Amazon and maybe some of the realities that led you to create and build that program.

Logan Schulz: 8:57

The apprenticeship program was launched in 2020 as we saw the shortfall in the retirement gap, in the workforce development, and so it's been going on now for six years. It's gone through a couple iterations as the technology continuously involves and really, in reality, the mechatronics and robotics piece of it has become the staple front where, I would say, initially, we started with basic animals and fundamentals. Now it's moving more and more and more into that advanced technologies.

Matt Kirchner: 9:23

And we, you know, we see, we hear more and more, by the way, about apprenticeships. And I think maybe 1015, years ago, people kind of thought of that as maybe, like more of a German model, or, you know, you'd hear about apprenticeships in some of the more traditional skilled trades, like electricians or or plumbers, HVAC and so on. And now we're starting to see apprenticeships appear in all different walks of life and all different career paths. So let's talk about that apprenticeship in a little bit more detail, about the architecture of the apprenticeship. You know, how does that work? If I'm a young person or a person of any age, that's like, wow, this could be a really, really cool career for me, and I've got a company here that's willing to invest in my future to provide the training that I need to be successful. What does that. Experience going to feel like for that individual?

Logan Schulz: 10:02

Yeah, the architecture of ours is really taking someone that has no fundamental knowledge of maintenance and building them up. It's an investment by Amazon into these individuals. Our apprenticeship program is 12 weeks of intensive classroom and hands on training. We focus a lot on industry certifications with soccer. And during this time away at school, they really focus on learning the fundamentals of electrical, mechanical and automation concepts, and they get a lot of hands on actual equipment and training labs thanks to our partners at ammatrol and others in building portable labs and classroom settings for them, and then finally, after that, they transition over into 2000 hours of structured on the job training. They move through a series of benchmarks to where they then grow into an experienced technician, and at the completion of the 2000 hours, promote up into what we call our mechatronics and robotics technician. And so this dual approach ensures that not only they understand the theory, but they also get the real world situation applications absolutely so I

Matt Kirchner: 11:05

want to come back to the first part of that answer in just a moment when you when you started talking about, literally, people with no experience in this area. So I want to dive a little deeper into that before we do that. Appreciate you mentioning, you know, a couple organizations for whom I have tremendous amounts of respect, certainly amateur Jeffersonville, Indiana, incredible training company, curriculum, e learning and training equipment, and appreciate you mentioning them. And then soccer, the smart automation certification Alliance, which our audience certainly knows was we have an affinity for here at the TechEd podcast, as well, under the direction of Jim wall and Sue Smith and others, really doing some great things in terms of not just the types of technology we're talking about here today, although certainly key to that, but across a number of different career pathways and opportunities. Let's go a little bit deeper on this no prior experience necessary aspect of this Logan. So literally, what you're saying is, I'm sure there's some prerequisites, but that if I don't know how to troubleshoot an electromechanical system, if I'm not completely familiar with smart sensors and devices and industrial control systems and industrial robots and all these other technologies that we're talking about, and autonomous mobile robots and ASRS systems and so on, I don't necessarily have to have a tremendous amount of understanding of those technologies to be successful in that program. Is that what I'm

Logan Schulz: 12:20

hearing That's correct. I mean, we designed the program to get into adjacent labor supplies that are more flexible and able to learn and have the capacity. A lot of this was honestly on the operation side, right? We saw an opportunity where we had a lot of operations folks that want to raise up and get into army and don't have that necessarily prior maintenance experience to start out the technician. So I would say you'd see this as like a bridge program from No, no true maintenance background, to technician and and that's where we built the program around. And we're building off of it even we've started the process of launching the next apprenticeship program, which is our automation engineering apprenticeship, which does start from a different area to go on. So we're building upon that.

Matt Kirchner: 13:04

And I would strongly encourage our listeners, you know, jump on, you know, jump on whatever your favorite browser is, and do a little research about what, you know, an electromechanical technology job pays in certain markets, because those are really, really good paying jobs. And so what I'm hearing from you is, you know, you can start with virtually no experience and move into a really, really rewarding career, the kind of career that can support a family and then some so, really amazing opportunity. Are there certain personality traits? Are there certain, you know, interests that people might have that would lend themselves to a role like this? Logan, do you do? Are there certain people that have certain hobbies, or what have you or interests while they're in high school or thereafter, that might make them ideal candidates for an apprenticeship like this one.

Logan Schulz: 13:45

I mean as being the former leader of the program. I've seen a wide variety of folks. I would say is, if you were to say there's a common theme, folks that like Tinker, folks that like to explore problems and work with their hands, has been the biggest one. I've seen a lot of folks that have been very successful coming out of K 12 stem like for us in India, Indiana, we have c4 programs, which is allows them to get into the engineering and stem technology programs at an early age. Seen success there, I would say those are the common themes of success.

Matt Kirchner: 14:16

Awesome. I love those examples. And for anybody, and I've got so many people in my life that you know, when they were younger, they were like that person that couldn't let somebody something sit in front of them without taking it apart, right and then figuring out how to put it back together. And certainly, if you've got that that hands on interest, or that fascination with how things work, not necessarily a prerequisite, because, to your point, you've got people coming from all walks of life, but, but what a great, great opportunity to work in a hands on environment, a an exciting, high paced environment, and again, one that can be incredibly rewarding in so many ways when you find yourself in some of these amazing careers. That doesn't happen on autopilot. Amanda, I know that there's an entire process. And Logan touched on some of this with the certifications and some of the learning programs. Go a little bit deeper on on the instruction. That these individuals are are receiving, as far as technologies labs, do they have mentors that are working with them, who's providing the learning? What you know, what kind of learning experiences do these apprentices get?

Amanda Willard: 15:10

Yeah, so it is, as you can imagine, a very robust program endorsed by the Department of Labor. It does include 2000 hours of structured learning and on the job training. They do work alongside experienced technicians, and really what we align to is that that dual approach allows them to not only understand the theory, which we know that they're going to need as they continue to evolve in our environment and as our equipment continues to evolve as well, but it also provides them that real world structure to where they're able to provide immediate value to our our maintenance technicians and to the work that needs to take place.

Matt Kirchner: 15:45

So these, these students are, you know, they're getting paired with somebody. So it's not like you're in learners and apprentices that, you know, they're, they're, they're walking into the environment, but they've got somebody that's working right alongside of them. So it's not like you're putting them right into that job, right out of the box or cold. They've got all kinds of help. And to me, you know, again, as someone who spent all those years in manufacturing, that's what makes the best, you know, the best training programs. It's got to be both, right? I mean, we've seen the quote, OJT training programs and and I know yours is far different from this, but you know, anytime I would hear someone say OJT, it's like, okay, well, we're going to walk that person out on the floor and put them in front of a machine and tell them to start doing the job. And that's on the job. Doing the job, and that's on the job training. I know that this is so much more than that, but on the other hand, it is nice to have that experienced person to take you under their wing, to you know, show you the ropes, to introduce you to the people in the organization, to have somebody to go to if you have a question, to know that somebody's got your back and is in your corner as you as you gain these skills and become more and more successful toward not just, not just a training strategy, but as I understand it, Amanda, this is really a whole workforce program and a workforce strategy across all of these different RME roles. Logan mentioned a little bit the engineering end of things and some of the advancements there. But, you know, but talk about the strategy. How does this employment, how does this apprenticeship strategy, I should say, tie to the entire talent pipeline at Amazon.

Amanda Willard: 17:06

From a workforce strategy standpoint, the apprenticeship program, along with our other pathway programs, are a crucial step, and it shows a clear investment in the talent and again, a proactive approach that Amazon's making to make sure that we can continue to meet our customers commitments. It's really about creating that ecosystem of skilled talent that will continue to benefit from all high tech manufacturers. And really where our focus is is as we think about that internal advancement, as Logan highlighted, we're enabling our associates to continue to grow within their career, increase their wages, increase their knowledge, and better support their families and our communities, which is a key component of the way and our key focuses at Amazon and the way that we operate. In addition, what we know in making this investment is that our apprenticeships, our apprentices, are more apt to stay with us longer, so we're increasing tenure, and we're building that talent within you know, every employer has a choice to build, buy or borrow talent, and this is this program specifically is focused on building our talent that we need both in current and future state.

Matt Kirchner: 18:15

And I think you really, you really hit on a couple of key points, and that is when we're talking to employers that maybe aren't investing in upskilling the next generation of talent the way that Amazon does. One of the things that I always share with them is, look, this isn't just about training people with skills. This is a strategy around becoming a destination employer. This is a strategy around telling people that if you come and work in our organization, yeah, you're going to start with a pretty cool job, but the sky's the limit. And as you continue to gain skills, and you continue to show proficiency, and as opportunities present themselves, you're going to be eligible for those opportunities to continue to advance your career. And so we're a destination employer, we just tell people that they've got opportunities for career advancement, and it really allows us to tell our employees that are already in our organizations look, if you want to continue to advance, you don't have to look somewhere else for a different job. We're going to train you right here, and it becomes a really, really good retention strategy, especially for those people maybe earlier in their career. Maybe want that longer runway and more opportunity. So it becomes so much more than just equipping people with skills to add value in the organization. It really is a holistic strategy around building a workforce and building a culture, which is super, super important. I know these investments that you've been making, all these Overall, these years, all the innovation that you've been involved with in terms of the training side of your organization, you've got to have some great success stories. We think. Is there any that you want to highlight in terms of an individual that had a big career change, or a life change or or you know some of your high performers, we'd love to hear those stories.

Logan Schulz: 19:44

One of the stories that sits with me is the leader of that program for a year was a single mom from California that went to our partner school in Statesboro, Georgia, Ogeechee Technical College, took a risk on herself. She was operations, had no maintenance background whatsoever. Of her again, just kind of had to touch base a little bit in high school, I think is what she discussed. Flew there, went there, actually, with her sister, very successful in the training, and just said, Hey, like, this is changing my entire economic outlook. Like, right? I've been in certain jobs, you know, food service and other jobs that she's like, I just didn't see that positive outlook for me in life. And like, she's like, she was just saying, this investment has just changed my entire economic trajectory. I think that if I were to say that's probably the single most impactful one that I've, I've heard so far,

Matt Kirchner: 20:30

a single mom, you said, is that right? That? Yeah, so, so in California, in there again, I mean, you just go back to these incredible opportunities, you know that that's, that's a woman that took advantage of an opportunity in this, you know, this maintenance apprenticeship, which is great as well. I mean, these, these types of jobs are open to anybody, and certainly gender should no be. Should be no limiter. We see tremendous amounts of women getting into these types of careers and excelling. So that's just a perfect story. And to have that happen to someone who's a single mom probably doing everything she can to support her family, to create a better life for herself and her children, really is a great example of how these programs are not just about investing in our organizations and creating profit and margin, which is fine. I mean, nothing wrong with that. We certainly want companies to be profitable and be able to reinvest themselves and benefit their investors and so on, but to simultaneously be being able to create those kind of career opportunities for the kinds of people that are most deserving and need the most. How cool is that? And the other thing that makes this stuff really cool is the kind of technologies that you're working with. Logan and we touched on some of this early on, but you think about robots and AMRs, mechatronics, warehouse systems, as our audience knows. I spent six days in China, actually, in August, and we visited 26 tech companies. A whole bunch of them were logistics, distribution and fulfillment companies. So seeing cutting edge technology, both here in the United States and in Asia, there's all kinds of advancements that are taking place in this space. Let's turn the clock forward. I know the technology you mentioned early on is amazing. If we're sitting here having the same conversation in three to five years, how will that technology have evolved?

Logan Schulz: 22:06

I think the biggest involvement will be the integration of all the subsystems and the ability for artificial intelligence and machine learning to speed everything up. I think the one thing that you'll see with Amazon is we continuously try to iterate. We continuously trying to solve on behalf of the customer, and get the product there faster and better. And so I think everything will be down on speed. I think you'll also by Fast forward five years. I think you you'll see even automation as it regards to, you know, system checks and condition based maintenance and usage based maintenance and predictive maintenance, and all these different areas of investments that we'll see. I think that orchestra that we already see is kind of working behind the scenes will become more and more seamless. And honestly, I think for us as army inside of Amazon, as I believe, with all the industry folks, we'll see a demand for more talent. I think that's the biggest thing. And as we're building out, I mean, with Amanda on the workforce strategies, the apprenticeship teams, we're preparing for growth, we know that that's going to come, and there's an increased demand for this skill.

Matt Kirchner: 23:09

So you think about some of the technologies that we're talking about here, and whether it's, you know, a robot, visual, robotic vision system, automated vision system, literally putting a camera they can see in three dimensions, working in concert with. And I love your I'm a musician, by the way, as well. So your allusions to things like things like symphonies and concerts and orchestras and those kind of things, I love that, and it really does paint a picture of what's happening here. It's not just one violin or one cello or somebody in the percussion section. It's all these technologies working together in a symphony to create the results. And technology is becoming more and more important, especially when it comes to, as you suggest, artificial intelligence and machine learning, our ability to gather tremendous amounts of data at the edge to analyze that both, you know, in our computer networks and at the fog or or for that matter, in our control systems, but also some of these incredibly powerful cloud based softwares that we're able to use to find patterns, to gather information, not just from one fulfillment center, but from 1000s across and around the globe, and be able to benefit from that data and find patterns in that data, to use that for predictive analytics. When are we going to where we have a downtime issue? When are we going to have a different problem? How do we solve that problem before it ever even happens that is, you know, in many, many cases, the present state in a lot of facilities, and it's, it's just getting more and more technical, more and more advanced, and creating better and better results. To your point, Logan, this whole idea of being able to handle more product faster and more accurately, fulfill more orders. Have even more happy customers. You have even more of those big, bright, smiling faces. Super, super important. But it also speaks to Amanda the fact that we're not sitting here in a stagnant environment where we gain these skills and we gain this understanding of this technology, and that's going to carry us for the next 20, 3040, years. We have to be lifelong learners. We have to be continually upskilling around these advancing Tech. Technologies. So as you consider that, what does that mean from a workforce standpoint, and how do we prepare that next generation of the workforce to make sure they're equipped with the kind of skills that are going to be important for being able to add value in the kind of environment that Logan just described to us?

Amanda Willard: 25:15

Yeah, and so Matt, I think you already highlighted some key items that we know and that we are preparing our future maintenance technicians to have, and that really comes into stronger data analytics ability, the ability to see how systems are interconnected and why they all work together. We are also understanding that we will have an additional need to understand Internet of Things, sensors, cloud computing, computing, predictive maintenance, along with just the ability to interpret data and act upon it. So going back to that problem solving, the aptitude to learn and then be in that continuous environment where things are changing constantly. As we look at the technology that are that's in our facilities right now, five years ago, I don't know if we would have imagined this technology. So as we think five years forward, it is amazing to think what the future will hold. And so really, having a workforce that is agile, that continues to evolve their learning and their systems theory is going to help set up manufacturers for long term success. There's also something important that I want to highlight. I don't know if you or your audience had a chance to see the October Forbes article written by Nathan Linder, and it was specifically around the 400,000 manufacturing jobs. And he captured something there that I think is really important in the way that we speak about manufacturing talent. And so what he shared is that really they are skilled problem solvers and system thinkers. We should stop labeling this as blue collar work. It absolutely is not. It is truly skilled cognitive labor, skilled cognitive work, and problem solving will continue to be a key focus as we grow the workforce.

Matt Kirchner: 26:51

That was beautiful, what you just said. And first of all, we'll, we'll link that Nathan Linder article up. I don't know that I read that in Forbes, but I will check that out, and we'll make sure that that is linked up in the show notes, because what you're saying there, Amanda is exactly, exactly right, and it's super, super fascinating. So I think 35 years ago, when I started in manufacturing, now Hard to believe, maybe a little less than that, but not, not too much. And you think about the job of a maintenance technician, right? And these were people we kind of talked about it before. They were incredibly talented. No way we could run those those companies without them. Great troubleshooters, really good at their jobs, but they were primarily, you know, wrench Turners, mechanical folks, and maybe they had a little bit of an understanding, if we were using, you know, programmable logic controllers or relay logic, they knew a little bit about some of those technologies and how they manifested themselves on the shop floor. When you start thinking about these kind of jobs, being skilled in terms of systems thinkers, skilled problem solvers. And so it's not your just your, quote, skilled labor. This is a really, really high level of thinking. This is someone that needs a pretty sophisticated skill set over time. Doesn't mean you have to start there to be successful in these kind of roles. What does that mean? That means all kinds of runway in terms of the future of the jobs. That means that the more value you're able to add to an organization, the more critical you are to the success of that organization, the better those jobs are going to stay, the better they're going to pay, the more stable they're going to be, the more interesting they're going to be, and the more over the long term, the more beneficial they're going to be so super, super important. I think, for us to spend time considering how amazing these new skills are going to be, and these new jobs and these new career opportunities are going to be, it makes me wonder, though, a little bit, I spent a lot of time around technical education, and whether that's community colleges, technical colleges, high school programs designed to equip students with introductory IIoT and mechatronics and controls and robotic skills and so on, and spend a lot of time around those types of programs or associate degrees in electromechanical technology or automation, is we start to think about the role of the technical educator. I'm a teacher. I'm an instructor in one of these STEM programs, or one of these advanced manufacturing or advanced technology automation electromechanical programs. What is my world gonna look like? What should schools be teaching now to make sure that students are ready for these kind of opportunities when they get to the workforce? Yeah.

Amanda Willard: 29:15

So some of the key advice I'd have for technical educators would be really focusing on what I'm going to call durable skills. So those skills that are going to outlast whatever equipment we are currently supporting, but instead skills focused on troubleshooting, methodologies, problem solving, data analytics, basic programming concepts and network connectivity, those are items that are going to be important regardless of the equipment that is within the facilities and will continue to be able to be built on and developed as the individuals secure employment. I would also definitely want to highlight again what I would call durable or power skills. Some people call them soft skills, but things like communication, teamwork, they are crucial to the way that our maintenance technicians do. Work as they are, often needing to collaborate with others and influence other stakeholders within that facility.

Matt Kirchner: 30:06

That, you know, that's a really good point as well. You start to think about, we call it, you whether it's change management or organizational development. You know, the need to be able to communicate at a high level, to explain whether it's a problem that we're solving a new technology, that we want to implement a new approach to how we're processing product you know, those, those high level leadership skills, in some cases, really important, as well as, in addition to the, you know, a lot of those base technology skills that you mentioned. Amanda Logan, I want to go a little bit deeper, if you don't mind, as we think about some of those skills, and you mentioned earlier, the smart automation certification Alliance. Can you? Can you expound a little bit about on how those two pieces are fitting together? You know? How are you leveraging the soccer certifications in the programs? What are, you know? What are some of the additional benefits? What are you hearing from students? Tell us a little bit more about soccer.

Logan Schulz: 30:56

So, I mean, one of the reasons we chose saka, so that was just recent, that was a couple years ago, was to reflect ourselves against the industry standard and to create something that is transferable. I mean, I would kind of challenge all of the employers is, we all know there's a cliff of talent. We know there's a retirement cliff. We should all be putting talent into the pool that meets this bar that we know we need. I would re emphasize, I think what Amanda said is the soccer certifications as we worked with that organization and our MRA universities was those are the durable foundational skills that will outlast any of our technologies that we're using today. I always I look for those kind of pieces, because if we deploy a new robotic system, I go through alpha beta, and then it's already reiterated a year and a half later. So if I train on that, and not the fundamental connectivities and fundamental troubleshooting and just understanding, how does that robot interact with the, you know, the picking robot, and then the drive unit robot, and then into the sortation system and the auto labeling, there's, there's all these pieces, I think we're missing the mark. And so like, I think that was, that was one of the largest reasons of choosing soccer,

Matt Kirchner: 32:03

you know, as you build those foundational skills and as technologies change to your point, you know, somebody is going to be able to transfer what they learned in a, you know, an electric relay control trainer, or in a basic AC DC program or or what they learned on fluid power. I'm assuming you use tons of pneumatics in an organization and operation like yours, or mechanical drives, shafts, pulleys, gears, all that good stuff. And then you start, as Amanda mentioned earlier, the smart sensors and smart devices and how our ability to gather data at the edge. How do we get data into a Smart Sensor? How do we get it back out? How do we discern the data that's really, really important to the success of the operation, to maybe that noise that isn't going to necessarily drive us toward toward continuous improvement. All those things are so important, and so getting these foundational skills right, so that as technology is changing, as the robot that we're using is a little bit different, or maybe there are fluid power actuators are different than what we were using before, having those fundamental understandings and being able to then translate that into the new technology that's coming on board, and then marrying that with we've heard it a few times today, systems thinking and understanding that it's not just teaching those technologies in a vacuum, but it's really how do they all work together in concert to be able to accomplish a goal? And that's what I'm hearing, and it sounds like SOC has been a great partner. So so you're you're training on those skills, and then, and then, students are actually earning the sack certifications as part of their apprenticeship program. Am I understanding that right?

Logan Schulz: 33:27

Yeah, they're they're earning eight soccer certifications across electrical, pneumatics, automation, PLC, diagnostics, everything that you're talking about are the fundamental ones that they're

Matt Kirchner: 33:36

getting awesome. Yeah. And as our audience knows, I mean, anytime we can go through an entire continuum of manufacturing technology and dive into the weeds on that. That's a fun episode for Matt Kirkner, I think for our listeners as well. But I love that kind of technology. Grew up around it and worked around it, and I think in so many ways, Amazon is leading the way in marrying all these best practices, the best practices of apprenticeships, reaching out into markets for employees that maybe others aren't. In other words, I don't necessarily have to go find somebody that's been doing this for five years. I'll find somebody that has an aptitude and interest and and a level of enthusiasm, and I'll train them, leveraging third party certifications, not reinventing the wheel and in realizing what's unique to our organization that we have to create our own curriculum and training programs around, but also leveraging things that are already out there and proven and working well. So those are all the best practices in technical education when it comes to workforce training and incumbent worker training and new new new employee training. So you guys are nailing it, and I didn't mean to steal the whole answer to the next question that I'm going to ask you. But if I, if I'm somebody who's another employer, because I can tell you, I spent time with a lot of employers, and there's probably, you know, this is anecdotal, probably five to 10 of them, five to 10% of them have a really well thought out, disciplined, intentional approach to workforce training, and the other 90. Sent are not that they're not trying, but they haven't quite figured it out. Amazon is clearly an organization that has this down. What advice do you have Amanda for other employers that are trying to figure out how to create a program like this one?

Amanda Willard: 35:12

Yeah, and I understand it can sound daunting. It can sound overwhelming, but the first thing I would say to other employers is there's a lot of help available. So just your local community colleges, your workforce boards, your fellow employers who are in this space, so you don't have to go it alone. So I think that would be the first thing I would say. And then ultimately, I think, as every employer would agree making this type of investment in the talent, it is a business strategy. This is not a people strategy. This is a business strategy to create sustainment long term. So that's where I would start, is, what are your business objectives? And then work backwards from there to understand how you're developing your talent, developing your pipeline, and you're making sure your stuff adequately will meet those business objectives.

Matt Kirchner: 35:56

You know, I spent so much time leading and running Kaizen and continuous improvement events during my days in manufacturing and that. And that's exactly where we would start with a Kaiser event, right? Everybody's like, oh, we want to do kaizen. We want to we want to be six sigma. We want to have this CI program. And it's like, that's awesome. You should have that. What problem are we trying to solve? And what I, you know, I love about what Amanda just said, is start with the end in mind. And let's think about, what are the goals? What are we trying to accomplish? How do we measure success, and how will we know when we've done a really, really good job, and then back into the program and the details that work best for you? I love that approach. It's exactly how I used to and continue to think about continuous improvement in any of the organizations that that I'm involved with, speaking of continuous improvement, not just in an organization, not just in a company, but on the part of a student and on the part of individuals. And we've talked about lifelong learning. We've talked about apprenticeships. If I'm a student who's looking at an amazing career path like the ones that we're talking about today, same kind of career. And by the way, it doesn't necessarily have to be a young student, so this could be in some situations, you know, more and more older learners going back in and finding out where they can redeploy themselves into the workforce. So whether I'm an adult learner, whether I'm a student, you know what? What kind of advice would you have for those individuals? Specifically, if I'm considering a career in mechatronics and automation?

Amanda Willard: 37:13

Yeah, so absolutely, focus on strong, analytical and problem solving skills. Do not be intimidated by the equipment, because, as we've highlighted today, the key focus is going to be your ability to diagnose data and problem solve, and the equipment will continue to evolve and change. The other thing I think I would just want to share with career seekers is that this industry, and industrial automation, specifically, it's growing rapidly. It is exciting. It's fast paced, it's fun, and there's incredible job security and long term growth and advancement within this field.

Matt Kirchner: 37:48

Yeah, there's no question about it. And as I talk to young people, this is one of the first things I always chat about, it's got to be aligned with their interests. It's got to be aligned with their career goals. But, you know, you got to at least have this on their on your radar, and they're really, really fun jobs. I mean, working in that kind of an environment where you're solving problems, where you're thinking about the future, and working with cutting edge technology, by the way, as well as you were talking about this. And you know, the surveys that you you read is that somewhere in the range of nine out of 10 Gen Z's are saying, Look, we want to work around cutting edge technology. So where else are we going to find more cutting edge technology than the kind of technology that we're hearing about today? So if you want a tech career, this is the kind of career that you should be thinking about and into Logan's earlier point, and really both Amanda and Logan, Logan the sky truly is the limit in terms of your opportunity for advancement, the longevity of these careers, the job security, the rewarding opportunities that you get to take advantage of. So really, really important. And I also want to mention, and just reflect on the fact that I think in the last, both of the last answers that Amanda offered us, her first words were, do not be intimidated. You know, don't, don't be scared away by this, right? This is whether you're a student, whether you're of any age, or whether you're an employer looking to integrate some of these technologies or train the next level of workforce. Don't be overwhelmed by all the details that you're hearing. Start somewhere, get going. Amazing, amazing opportunities lie in your future. So some really great points from both of our guests, and we've got time for, I think, two more questions for each of you, and they're the kinds of questions, in fact, the exact questions we love asking every single one of our guests here on the TechEd podcast, we get so many fascinating answers. Our audience knows what's coming if they listen every week. But Question number one, we all have our own education journey. We all have our own paradigms about what works and didn't work for us and for others in education, we all have one or two things that might surprise others, or an angle, or a thought or a belief that we have about education that maybe isn't all that commonplace. Let's start with you. Amanda, what is there something that you believe about your education journey, or education in general, that might surprise our listeners a little bit?

Amanda Willard: 39:53

I think what I would highlight is the best educational journey is going to be a combination of both classroom. A collaborative working within that classroom, but also the hands on. So as as you think about the educational journey, while it might be easy to fully solely focus on the classroom portion, it's also important that you are establishing mentorships and that you are working to to gain the actual hands on skills, which will be a key aspect in separating you from the competition. So from an educational journey, that's where I would would encourage people to continue to to work and focus. Is that dual approach, with both hands on and curriculum based learning.

Matt Kirchner: 40:38

I love the way that you weaved all three of those together, all three of those super, super valuable. And I'm glad that you pointed those out. Amanda Logan, same question to you, your education journey and what might surprise others.

Logan Schulz: 40:50

I think the biggest thing is know that whatever degree or whatever outcome you've had is not going to dictate your career. My background is in finance. I have an MBA, and I am strategy for maintenance organization, and I'm not the most hands on maintenance person, but like being able to have those transferable skills, like solving problems and helping others that you know, gain to their goals, and really being able to have the interpersonal skills, the networking skills. Amanda touched on mentorship, I would say mentorship as well is really the critical aspects. It's, I mean, the curriculum is there. It's a it's very helpful, but it's not necessarily, in my opinion, the catalyst. I think the catalyst is all the things you get that's outside of just the curriculum.

Matt Kirchner: 41:31

As I told both my kids when they were thinking about what to do after high school, I told them, really, there aren't any bad choices, right? I mean, there are some, but you're not going to pick those, but, but you know, of the ones you're thinking about, there aren't bad choices. You're going to pick a path, and that's your path. And whatever path you pick, that's your path. It's not a death sentence. You can always or a life sentence. For that matter, you can, you can always change course. Someone that started in in finance and ended up in maintenance and reliability. I love that. I was meeting yesterday with the Commissioner of Higher Education in the state of North Dakota, former Lieutenant Governor of the state of North Dakota. And a little bit sheepishly, I forget who went first, but, but he's, you know, he kind of said that he had a background as a is a certified public accountant. Now he's running the statewide education system for higher education in North Dakota. Well, guess what? My background was the same. I started out in public accounting, ended up in manufacturing and tech, and now doing the work that we're doing in education and technical education, you never know where your career is going to lead. You be open to those opportunities. Build some good foundational skills. I'm sure, in a lot of ways, that understanding of finance and and how that aspect of a business and organization works serves you well in the work you're doing in maintenance and reliability and so on. But you just never quite know. Logan, we're gonna we're gonna hit you with the second question here, and then we'll go back to Amanda. And that question is this, I want you to go all the way back to when you were a sophomore in high school, right? If you could give that one, that young man, one piece of advice, what would you tell him?

Logan Schulz: 42:53

I would say, embrace change faster. I would say, also be more willing to get in and into the technologies I was. I'm not a techy person in terms of that. So like I would, I would say, go that route overall. I'd also say is, like, as you're exploring careers like, so in Amazon's world, we run on leadership principles, and so we strive to be the best employer, and we use success and scale to bring broad responsibility. And I think the big things that we have is, like, look for those employers that want to invest in you. I don't think I valued that as much when I was in high school as you're looking for, like, long term career stability, because we could, we grew up in a generation where it was okay, you're going to change jobs, you're going to change employers, and your dads or your grandfathers, they, they stayed with the same employer for 3040, years, and that was the path. And I think doing more research on the front end would have been my advice as well.

Matt Kirchner: 43:44

Yeah, absolutely. My father in law started working at General Motors and stayed there for 33 years, retired from the same company and and I kind of knew, as I was going through my education journey, maybe that same opportunity wasn't going to be available just because of how our economy has evolved. Certainly today, certainly you stay with the same company for a long, long, long period of time, but your job is going to change. Technologies are going technologies are going to change and and so those leadership principles that are so important and also making sure you're diving into that technology really, really good advice, and I think even more so now than you know, than it was when you were making that decision or considering that in hindsight as a 15 year old sophomore in high school. Logan, so great answer. Amanda, same question to you, what would you tell that 1516, year old? Amanda Willard,

Amanda Willard: 44:24

yeah, so first, I would say, buy Amazon stock at IPO. All right, my first advice, and then Matt, my second piece of advice is very similar to what you are telling your children as well, and that's really, don't be so stuck on a linear career path. Really keep your mind open. There are jobs that exist today that did not exist when I was a 15 year old, and I cannot again imagine the jobs that will be created in the next 15 plus years. So just keeping in mind that your career path does not have to be linear to be successful,

Matt Kirchner: 44:55

being open to whatever career path comes your way, building those foundational skills, being interested. In tech as as Logan suggested, making sure that we're seeing ourselves as leaders. And I, and I love the way that you articulated the mission of Amazon and the in the work that you're doing there, Logan and Amanda, same thing, just always recognizing that you got to be open to opportunities as they come along. And I just wouldn't have if you asked me when I was a, you know, a sophomore in high school. I probably would have guessed at some point I would be running a company. I always wanted to do that. But the idea, obviously, nobody even knew what a podcast was back then, a long time before anybody was doing a podcast, but the idea that we'd be doing this kind of work never had any idea. But you see an opportunity come along. You see a market space available, and you and you go after it. That's exactly, by the way, what Amazon is doing? I think you you noticed really, really early on and identified really early on, this incredible importance of building talent, of recognizing that we have to build that bench of talent, and that strength of talent, not just for today, but future technologies. I've got to believe that you're already harvesting the dividends of the investments that you made 678, years ago, what have you, and you'll continue to harvest those investments going forward, by investing in things like third party certifications, in house training programs where you're working with educators, giving your educational institutions really, really good advice. And most important, I think, is recognizing the future of technology. How many career opportunities are going to be available to people as technology continues to evolve. The two of you are creating those kind of careers. You're creating those opportunities. You're nurturing that talent. You really are changing the present in the future. You should be really, really proud of the work that you're doing. And I want to thank you, both Logan and Amanda, for being with us here on the TechEd podcast.

Amanda Willard: 46:36

Yeah, it was lots of fun. Thanks so much, Matt. Thanks for having us.

Matt Kirchner: 46:39

It was a wonderful conversation this week with Amanda Willard, Strategic Workforce Development and Logan Schultz, Senior Manager, both Amazon reliability and maintenance engineering, also known as RME. This was a really, really fascinating conversation. If you didn't hear anything else and you're a young person or somebody thinking about a career change, these are the kinds of jobs that are the future of the American economy and the global economy, they should be on your radar. You should be thinking about them incredibly rewarding opportunities with incredibly amazing companies like Amazon. So thanks to both of them for joining us. We're going to link up the show notes. We had a whole bunch of different articles. Amanda mentioned an article from Forbes. We talked about a couple other videos and so on. We talked about some things with some some other organizations. We're gonna link all that up for you in the show notes. So check them out. We have the best show notes in the business, as everyone knows, and we are at TechEd podcast.com you will find those show notes at TechEd podcast.com/amazon that is TechEd podcast.com/amazon when you're done there, check us out. We are all over social media. Many of you know we're blowing up Youtube every week. Now. We're getting so many views on the YouTube versions of the podcast, so check us out there. We're also all over Facebook. You will find us on Tiktok. You'll find us on LinkedIn. You'll find us on Instagram, wherever you go for your social media or to consume your podcast, you will find the TechEd podcast. Look for us when you get there. Say hello. We would love to hear from you. Can't wait to see you next week and for now, thanks for being with us. I'm your host, Matt Kirkner, and this is the TechEd podcast. You.