The Educator, Employer and Student Perspective on Work-Based Learning - Live Panel at the ACTE WBL Conference

Work-based learning is only as strong as the ecosystem around it, and this panel shows what happens when educators, employers, and students each do their part.

Recorded at ACTE’s National Work-Based Learning Conference in Providence, Rhode Island, this keynote panel features the perspective of an educator, industrial employer, and a student and shares their best insights and practical advice for making WBL impactful.

From the education side, Kathryn Dacier explains what it looks like when work-based learning is embedded in the design of a school, not relegated to the margins. From the employer's perspective, Kathy Sutton argues that the quality of work-based learning depends on whether employers are willing to create placements grounded in communication, mentorship, and meaningful work. And from the student side, Kadence Agin shows how experiences like SkillsUSA, DECA, and work-based learning help young people build confidence, expand their networks, and discover career paths they want to pursue before graduation.

Taken together, the panel makes a practical case for stronger collaboration between schools and employers and a more intentional approach to preparing students for the workforce. It also shows that when those three stakeholders are aligned, work-based learning starts functioning as a true pipeline for talent, readiness, and opportunity.

Meet our Panelists:

• Kathryn Dacier, Career Coordinator, William M. Davies Jr. Career and Technical High School
• Kathy Sutton, Senior Workforce Development Specialist, General Dynamics Electric Boat
• Kadence Agin, Senior, Coventry High School; SkillsUSA Rhode Island State President

Resources in this Episode:

Learn more about the Association for Career and Technical Education

Save the date! ACTE Work-Based Learning Conference 2027 is coming to Oklahoma City April 28-30, 2027.

Other resources mentioned:

• Davies Career and Technical High School
• General Dynamics Electric Boat - student programs
• SkillsUSA
• DECA

More resources on the episode page! https://techedpodcast.com/acte/

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:09

This is the

TechEd Podcast Introduction: 0:10

TechEd Podcast, where we feature leaders who are shaping, innovating, and disrupting technical education and the workforce. These are the stories of organizations leading the charge to change education to rethink the workforce and to embrace emerging technology. You'll find us here every Tuesday on our mission to secure the American dream for the next generation of STEM and workforce talent. And now here's your host, Matt Kirchner,

Matt Kirchner: 0:38

securing the American dream for the next generation of STEM and workforce talent. My name is Matt Kirchner. I am your host for the number one podcast in STEM and technical education. We are on location in Providence, Rhode Island, at the Association for Career and Technical Education National Work-Based Learning Conference. Let's think about some questions. Why should students say yes to work-based learning? How can work-based learning programs surmount hurdles like transportation and site access? What can organizations like Skills USA teach young people about the power of networking? How do educators build lasting relationships with industrial employers, all of these topics and more. As I introduce a phenomenal panel of subject matter experts, I will start with Katherine De Seer, who is a career coordinator at William M. Davies Jr. Career and Technical High School, where she leads initiatives that give high school students meaningful real-world experiences focusing on workforce development, employability skills, and strong industry engagement. She's built strong partnerships with companies like General Dynamics Electric Boat, CBS Pharmacy, Tasca, and Waterfire Providence, and has expanded internships and post-secondary success programs. She's also a dedicated Skills USA advisor. Second, we have Kathy Sutton, who is a senior workhorse development specialist at General Dynamics Electric Boat. There, she leads program management and institutional design efforts, focusing on expanding the maritime STEM pipeline, including the design and implementation of K 16 outreach programs like Boat for Kids, Boat for Explorers, and Educator Engagement through Anchor. She previously worked as a STEM education specialist with the Ocean Exploration Trust, and before that spent over a decade teaching high school science and CTE at Davies Technical High School. Finally, Cadence Agan is a senior at Coventry High School. She is in her fourth year of the criminal justice pathway and first year in the business pathway. She's a member of DECA, has spent five years in SkillsUSA, and is this year's SkillsUSA Rhode Island State President. Join me in welcoming these phenomenal panelists. All right, so we are going to start with a question for Catherine,

and that question is this: 3:04

Katherine Davies is the only state-run high school in Rhode Island. How does the high school experience differ from traditional high school, and how is work-based learning built into the model?

Kathryn Dacier: 3:17

Well, thank you so much, Matt, for having us here today. This has been a really wonderful opportunity to get to speak in front of all of you. Just as you said, Davies is the only state-run career and technical education high school, and that means that we're pulling students from all over the state, and the difference for us is the integration and our schedule. When I say integration, I mean, our graphics department is right next to our Spanish and Portuguese class. Our math class is right next to our hospitality department, and that really gives us the opportunity and flexible in our schedule to really make work-based learning a part of our everyday life. It starts right at the beginning, when they're freshmen, they come in. We do a semester rotation for our freshmen. They get to go through all 10 CTE programs and really get an idea and feel of what major they're going to choose when they actually pick their technical program at Davies. So they're picking a major, they're not picking an elective or just a few classes to kind of get them through, after they're, they make their selection, they get one period a day. Sophomores and juniors, they're over two hours a day in their career and technical education program. And when it comes to their senior year, we do a split program, where one week they're 100% academics, the second week they're 100% career in tech ed, and that they're spending over five hours a day in that program, which is really a remarkable thing, and gives them the opportunity to go outside of school three days a week and really have an opportunity for those apprenticeships and co-ops, which is really, really important, but with integration and schedule it really gives. Them, the time, our underclassmen to have those industry projects, those student-based enterprises. Just yesterday, we had a tour of wonderful people from this conference, and our graphics department was able to put together beautiful name tags and lanyards for every member of that tour. So, integration and schedule for sure for us,

Matt Kirchner: 5:18

and we love all that, especially this idea of 10 different CTE pathways, and students getting that exposure right away as they enter the program. So, we all know the number one influencer of a young person's career pathway, their own interests and experiences in middle school and high school, they get this great opportunity. 10 different pathways, students coming from all over the state love that as well, and the way that you're integrating work-based learning, absolutely incredible. Kathy, I know you've seen work-based learning from both sides, right? So, you were an educator, you worked in, now you're now you're working in industry, and by the way, I love the fact that we've got someone from education, from industry, and a student as well on this panel. And so now you have this dual perspective, right? You've been on both sides. How has that informed your ideas on the best way to prepare students for the workforce.

Kathy Sutton: 6:04

Yeah, so my prior experience has really allowed me to bring a fresh perspective to industry with ideas on how we can create very successful partnerships and incredible opportunities for student learning, and not only that, but thinking about ways that we can support our instructors as well. So, an example of this is one of the programs that I currently oversee, called the Liaison Program. So, essentially, I help play matchmaker with finding industry subject matter experts that can support teaching and learning within the shop classroom environment every month throughout the school year, so one of the initiatives of this of this program is we are coming up with industry-inspired projects hands on that represents actual work in maritime manufacturing that can be done at the high school level to bring in this industry exposure, and you know, again, creating that relationship. It's really all about relationships between the liaisons, the school instructors, the school administrators, our work-based learning coordinator coordinators. It takes a village, but I'm able to be creative in that mindset and bring in these new ideas to really make these programs effective,

Matt Kirchner: 7:31

making sure we're preparing liaisons, preparing instructors. As somebody who worked in manufacturing, I led manufacturing companies for 25 years, as Ricardo mentioned. What always drove me a little crazy was going into a, and going into a high school, in this example, and not seeing authentic manufacturing technology, and I love the fact that you are connecting students to what they're actually going to do, what they're going to see in the workforce, that's so amazing. I want to move on to a question for Cadence, and Cadence, first of all, the audience should know Cadence was in Atlanta, Georgia, yesterday. Her plane got in at 1o'clock this morning, and she's joining us. So, she's making a huge, huge effort to be with us this morning. That's so amazing. So, so, Cadence, what I would love for you to reflect on is this: you're you just came back from DECA. I know you're super, super involved, super, super involved, DC fan out there, super involved with Skills USA as well. What do these kind of experiences provide for you and other students that you wouldn't necessarily get in a typical classroom? One

Kadence Agin: 8:31

thing that has made a huge difference over the past few years is my leadership skills. I used to be the student who sat in the back corner, and if you made eye contact with me, I would look the other way if you tried to ask me my name, didn't know my name. I would completely avoid any type of interaction. And then I started to realize that I had really nothing going, educational wise. So, in eighth grade, I joined Skills USA as a why not. Joining that club as a little fun activity to do has changed my life for the best ways possible. It's taught me that it's really not scary to talk to people, and speaking in front of all of you today is actually really easy. And just stepping out of your comfort zone is really what you have to pull yourself with. Being a leader is something that we can also demonstrate in the classroom every day. I jumped from my career and technical education class to math next period, and you can easily be a leader in both of those classes. So, just having student leaders to pull and build other students, I've seen my friends as I pull them in and start to grow as well. So, just surrounding yourself with people who you want to be like and having yourself build with other people, it'll help you in the long run.

Matt Kirchner: 9:44

Well, whatever misgivings or concerns you had about speaking publicly, about being competent, I think it's fair to say cadences past those. That was a terrific, terrific answer. And, and to think about, hey, I want to just note the fact that you talked about leadership in that last answer, and it's, and it's leading by. Example, it's bringing other students into work-based learning. It's understanding that there doesn't have to be a big line between technical education and the rest of your academic career. So, I think everything that you just said there, Cadence, was really, really impressive, and just love the way that you're engaging in work-based learning. We want to have these experiences for more and more students, and Catherine, I have a question for

you, and the question is this: 10:21

as we think about work-based learning, there's nobody in this room that doesn't believe this is really important, but we also know that there's certain hurdles, like limited site access, or like transportation, that often stand in the way of providing these kind of opportunities to as many students as possible. So, how do we get over some of these challenges, and how is Davies addressing these?

Kathryn Dacier: 10:45

So, I think we can all agree travel and site access are a huge, huge problem, especially I don't know about you guys, but I serve. We have over 800 students in our school, and there's only limited amount of employers in our state, so we have to get really creative. Kathy had mentioned relationships and partnerships earlier, and having really good relationships with your partner, so you can collaborate and create opportunities for your students, like the liaison program. I have to say that's one of our most successful joint ventures. High five, Kathy. We have David Sims coming in to our advanced manufacturing program, and really working with students one on one to give them the electric boat experience, and in some of those tools and tricks of the trade. Another way that I have really made my personal mission is to bring in industry projects into the school. It's one thing for mr. and Miss to create an industry project and have their student do that, right? A lot of our comprehensive high schools do that style of industry project. It's another thing for Waterfire of Providence to come into school, drop off 15 brazers, and say, "I need them by april 30. You have three months. Well, our students rose to the occasion. They came up with a process plan, a material list, and actually finished this project from inception to fruition, and they actually finished that project by going to the Providence River and feeding the fires, the braziers that they recreated at the first fire lighting of the year, which was absolutely amazing. If we can't bring projects in like that, then sometimes we try to get creative with bringing groups of students out our health careers department, our wonderful educators there, they take our entire junior class their year on an alternating schedule, and they take them out to a local nursing home to get their clinical hours, all of our juniors are licensed CNAs, with the exception of maybe one a year, which is a really wonderful feat. We have over 50 students in that program in their junior year, and I think that's really the two ways bringing those projects in, and if we can't get those projects in, bringing our students out with our, with our teachers' help, of course, they're a huge part of it,

Matt Kirchner: 13:01

and as someone who spent all those years managing the deadlines, managing the lead times, managing projects, knowing that school, that students in high schools are getting those same kind of experiences, and understanding this has to be done on such and such a day, super, super important life skills, not just, not just manufacturing type skills. Now, Kathy, I know you're a huge believer in getting students started as early as possible, and I know Electric Boat is introducing students to careers way more earlier, way earlier than many, many employers are doing that. Why do you think this early exposure is so important?

Kathy Sutton: 13:32

Yeah, so we've had tremendous success with our early engagement programs, Boat for Kids, for example, which introduces what we consider our six entry-level core trades in machining, electrical, sheet metal, welding, ship fitting, and pipe fitting, and again, when you get in to these early grade levels, it exposes children to all the opportunities that are out there, it helps shift the mindset to, wow, I, you know, maybe I never knew about pipe fitting, I didn't realize that that was a well-paid, rewarding career that I could think about going into, so for us, I think it helps, just, you know, make that mind mindset shifts, and it also, there are a few key things with that programming I think that are really important for elementary and early education aspects of student learning, and that's hands on experience, hands on experience in a non-pressure setting to allow children to build their confidence and explore and problem solve, and all of our lessons have those key attributes, and I, I have not been in a classroom yet where we don't have. Have 100% of those children engage the entire time when we're doing this, and I can see a direct correlation, you know, working with the industry that is hiring right out of high school, because we are starting to see that pipeline of students that have had these entry, entry level touch points of the marine trades at every level. Say, you know what? I would really like to continue with this pathway in middle school or high school, or I'm going to think about going into an electrical trades program, or welding, or ship fitting at the high school level, so we can see that direct correlation in our local economy.

Matt Kirchner: 15:44

We had an episode of the podcast within the last year with Dr. Casey Sacks, and this just amazed me. She said that the average middle school student, the average middle school student knows about 12 career pathways. Think about that. I mean, there's literally like 1016 different careers, maybe even 2500 depending on whose numbers you use, career pathways that students can choose from, and they know about 12, so this early exposure really, really important, especially by the way, for girls, there's some really interesting research out of the state of Minnesota that will tell you that for girls in middle school they start making career decisions as early as 11 or 12 years old, and it's not that they're going to say I'm going to be a lawyer or I'm going to be a doctor or I'm going to be a nurse, it's like engineering, manufacturing, those are more boy career pathways, I don't think that's for me, so this really, really early exposure, super, super important, and then as students get deeper and deeper into their education pathway, understanding, as Cadence mentioned earlier, how to interact with other students, and that leads me to my next question, Cadence, and it's not just other students, it's really across the board, this whole idea of networking, we heard that word twice, I think, at least in the comments leading up to this panel discussion this morning, Why do you think networking is so important, and how does your experience, and for example, Skills USA help with your networking skills?

Kadence Agin: 17:05

Definitely, so networking is so simple. You all are networking by just being here today. I have attended the Skills USA National Conference twice, and the DECA National Conference once. Being there, you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, it's people who are just like you and have the same passions as you. Just sharing ideas together allows you both to grow at the same time. You growing and other people not growing is not benefiting you at all. With you bouncing off of each other and sharing ideas, the growth that'll come from both of you is tremendous. There's no words to truly explain how important networking is, and how simple it can truly be. We have this little thing that we do at the Skills USA and DECA national conferences, where each state is assigned a pin. So, for example, the Rhode Island one is a cup of chowder to represent our state, and you trade with other states, just something as simple as that. Oh, I like your state pin, that is networking. You're meeting each other, finding out what competitions you're in, and it's so, so simple. And most of the time, students don't even realize that they're networking when they truly are all the time.

Matt Kirchner: 18:13

So, students are networking all the time. Of course, we have heard a story, actually, over the weekend about a youth organization that got together, it was a service organization, and it was a middle school students in this case, and they were all sitting around a table, every single one of them on their devices, in that case, not trying to figure out how to follow the TechEd podcast, but just doom scrolling, or whatever they're doing, and so hearing someone like Cadence talk about the fact that you're, you can be doing it all the time, you can be at Skills USA, trading pins, meeting new people, and I can tell you, Cadence, there is no question that those skills and experiences are going to pay off in huge ways as you get further into your academic journey, as you get into the workhorse, and building those skills so early, so very, very important. So, you'll be building industry partnerships as a student, you'll be building industry partnerships as you begin your workforce journey, and industry partnerships, so very important. Katherine, and you've done some incredible work in this area of work of industry partnerships. So, what can you tell our audience about how we go about building strong relationships that actually last in the world of industry partnerships?

Kathryn Dacier: 19:21

So, I have to say, communication, it is crucial to your work-based learning partnerships with your industry leaders, being communicative about exactly what you are looking for in your work-based learning co-op and journey for your school and students. I like to paint them the picture. What is my gold standard of a work-based learning opportunity for my student, mine personally is I want our rising seniors to get that full-time summer internship their senior year. I want them to get an offer for a co-op, so they can continue that opportunity throughout their senior year, and then right around this time I want that employer to call me and say. Katherine student, a was so wonderful. We want to offer them a full-time employment opportunity with our company, and that is my gold standard. So, I give my wish list to every partner, and then I know that not every employer that I come across is going to be able to fulfill that standard, right? So, what are the baby steps that they can.. how can they still participate and still make a difference in an impact? Is it a career talk? Is it having our students go to their facility and take a tour, or is it maybe having one student just every other week come for an unpaid internship three days a week? Is that something that they're interested in, and typically when they come in for that career talk, and then we go for the tour. Well, they're seeing the value of our students, they're seeing their professionalism and their employability skills that Davies really instills with them with our career readiness rubric that all of our CTE teachers use.

Matt Kirchner: 20:58

And I can tell you from experience that walking into a technical education program as an employer, and seeing the kind of technologies, as we mentioned earlier, that I have in my own manufacturing plant, that makes a huge, huge difference. So, things like vinyl cutters are great, things like 3D printers are great. Most manufacturing companies are around machining, they're about around automation, they're around robotics, they're around process, and I'm speaking from my experience in manufacturing. I know that's true across every sector of the workforce. So, those really key examples of how we see whatever that technology is in our workplace manifesting itself in education, super, super important, and that gets people's attention. I will tell you that we don't always, as educators and industrial employers or workforce employers speak the same language. I had been on the education side of the equation for about 10 years ago, for about 10 years. 10 years ago, I had an experience where we had a group of educators come to our tech center, and we were talking about education technology, manufacturing technology, and I gave a whole presentation on the importance of PLCs. How PLCs were changing the world. How people had to learn about PLCs. How they were so very important to be seen in education. And it was about 10 minutes later that I realized that while I was talking about the computer of manufacturing programmable logic controllers, my audience was talking, thought I was talking about professional learning communities, two totally, totally different things, and we just didn't speak the same language. So, we tell employers, check the agenda at the door. We tell educators and employers, you're not going to speak the same language, recognize that, let the guard down, and just communicate with each other, really great ways to create amazing relationships between educators and employers. I will also tell you, my dear friend Rich Barnhouse, and Rich is the CEO of Waukesha County Technical College in my home state of Wisconsin, told me. I said, I just asked him one time, I said, Rich, you raise tremendous amounts of money, you have these incredible relationships with your industrial employers, what's the secret? And Rich says, "Here's the secret. He said, "If you ask for money, you'll get advice, and if you ask for advice, you'll get money. And that is just always stuck with me as a great way to build those relationships, or to quote one other great friend of mine, Michael Frona, who's the former CEO of Junior Achievement of the state of Wisconsin, said, if you want a million dollars, you need to have a million dollar idea. So, really, really important for us to recognize that we can build these incredible, incredible partnerships, as Katherine mentioned. Now, Kathy, when we talk about partnerships, we've already been through the incredible work that you're doing electric boat is also involved with a number of high school work-based learning programs. What are three things that you would say that make a work-based learning experience truly meaningful for a high school student?

Kathy Sutton: 23:51

Yeah, so I am going to start with partnerships with our school districts, as Kat said, that communication is key. Now, Kat is what I call one of our champions, working at the school level, and we have many. Rico is another one, and they, you know, they bring that passion, they bring that energy, and they also help communicate to the company, to industry. These are our goals, these are our needs, and this is how you can help our students be the best success stories, and that's what we need. And I would say, on the industry side, I also aim to match that right, match that communication, keep up with timely feedback, so when we do have students working in our shipyards through co-ops, for example, during their senior year, that you know being able to provide those timely communicative updates, feedback loops is essential, you know, for. Helping to give these students the best you know career work based learning opportunity that they can have access to. My second thing that I would like to mention is I think that meaningful work is super important with students being placed in these work based learning opportunities, so you know, actual having them be placed in a department where they are contributing to meaningful work that is going to impact the company, you know, and it's okay if it can't be 100% of the time, but the majority of the time should be spent on that student gaining skills, gaining confidence in their skill sets, and contributing to that work to the real industry work. The last thing I want to mention is I aim to advocate for proper placement on the industry side with departments or teams that value the importance of mentorship, student mentorship, and structured and scaffolded learning for our young adults, right? Our students that are 1718, years old, they need to have opportunities to learn and grow and be provided those supportive environments,

Matt Kirchner: 26:24

so that mentorship aspect of it, so very important. We've all had important mentors in our lives, and making sure that we have those available for students, important as well. You did say something, Kathy, that struck me that I would love for you to expound on a little bit. If I heard you correctly, you said that you have co-op students working in the shipyard, and I would love to just understand a little bit better what that experience looks like and feels like from the view of the student.

Kathy Sutton: 26:48

Yeah, so our co-op students are students that completed a summer internship last year, so juniors going into their senior year have the opportunity to apply for what we call intern capital ship placements over the summer in certain career areas. This includes design, welding, and machining, just to name a few. Those students that complete the summer internships will then have the opportunity to be invited to do the co-op their student year. Now, a big part of this, and the way we're able to make this successful in Rhode Island, is because of the way our career and tech programs are scheduled here throughout the academic year, so at Davies, for example, the students do week week on, week off shop rotations, so they're able to work pretty much 36 hours, 40 hours a week during their shop weeks and still be able to complete all of their academic requirements needed for graduation, so that is a big thing, and you know, not all states are structured like that. That is something that you know we are working on in Connecticut, for example, to be able to, you know, increase the number of students that were able to offer those co-ops to during their senior year,

Matt Kirchner: 28:25

and with these experiences for the students, I'm going to put you on the spot again. What message do you have for employers? Because we hear this a lot, we'd love to have more students working in our workplace, but we're concerned about insurance, we're concerned about safety, concerned about liability. What's your message to those employers?

Kathy Sutton: 28:42

Yes, very valid question, and I will say that under the age of 18 there are certain limitations, but one of the ways that we help prepare students and also schools is that clear communication as to you speaking to the actual skills and work that the students will be exposed to, and there are many schools that will have, you know, again their own paperwork, and it's just having it's having the people in place that can help manage all of these partnerships and programs, both on the industry side and the education side, that is key.

Matt Kirchner: 29:27

Absolutely, we see I think the most successful programs like this, where you have dedicated personnel, everybody agrees it's a good idea, but if I'm sitting in the C suite of an industrial company, you know, I'm trying to figure out how I manage my company, how I make, make payroll. How I figure out how to make sure that our processes are running efficiently, so on work-based learning opportunities for students, not always the first thing on the list, right?

Kathy Sutton: 29:49

Yeah, and I will add one more thing: is I work with an incredible team at Electric Boats, we're kind of like the pushers, right, so we. Will seek opportunities out. We will talk to different departments, you know, even if it was a department that never thought about having a high school senior, you know, bringing them on board. We will be the ones to initiate that conversation and see what's possible.

Matt Kirchner: 30:16

Yeah, great message to our employers that are listening on the TechEd podcast. Reach out to your local school district. Reach out to your local educators. They would love your help. They would welcome your help. And really, the same message to educators, you're going to find a really welcome and excited audience in your, in your employers, at least many of them. You know, Cadence, it's interesting as Kathy talks a little bit about the differences between certain states and doing something one way in a certain state doing something a different way in another state, understanding what those state requirements are. I know your experiences at Skills USA, your experiences with networking as president right here of Skills USA in Rhode Island, and your just incredible learning aptitude and interest in learning. Would love to hear some comments about what do you learn from other states about SkillsUSA or anything else related to work-based learning as you travel and meet with other leaders?

Kadence Agin: 31:07

So, Rhode Island is obviously very, very, very small compared to some other states. Rhode Island is the same size as Dallas. We are in the same competitions nationally as Texas. The students in Texas have to go through six rounds to even make it to states. Rhode Island, we go straight to states. There's no nothing to go at there. So, with us, they have to go through so many rounds and so much training, and Rhode Island is just one round. It kind of leaves us as the underdogs. So, we had to up our standards and up our competitions. So, instead of having our own regulations and rules in Rhode Island. We follow national regulations and rules. This way, the competitions that our students do in Rhode Island are the exact same ones that they will be doing in Atlanta, Georgia, for their national conference this June. It is preparing our students more and more, and Rhode Island has held several national titles in the past few years. So, just because we upped our standards and realized that the different levels of training that they had could easily come with us, it showed so much success and so much improvement.

Matt Kirchner: 32:11

And isn't it awesome to hear a student talking about upping standards, raising the bar, learning from other states, and despite the small nature of the state that you're in. I did not realize, by the way, that it was as small as Dallas, but that's a, that's a great analogy, and a great, a great example. The truth is that you're, you're small but mighty, and competing on a national stage, and setting an example in many ways for the rest of the country. So, what a great student example we have here in Cadence. Catherine, I know you have a ton, as we were talking, of examples of students that have been successful, successful through work-based learning, and would love to hear some of those specific examples, and what it can do for a student's future.

Kathryn Dacier: 32:49

So, I have a specific young man in mind that I'll talk about in a second, but first, I spend half of my day cold calling, trying to find different employers, right, to come over and to give my, my golden vision to, and a lot of times I'll pick up the phone and I say, "Hi, this is Katherine Dacier from Davies Career in Tech, and the person on the other side of the phone goes,"Oh, I graduated from Davies Career in Tech, or "I have three employees that graduated from Davies Career in Tech, or myself, my son, my other son, and our employee are all electricians from Davies' career in tech, and so that to me is a testament of our work-based learning program model and our school as a whole, and what we're doing in our state that is really, really making work-based learning a success, right? So that is first and foremost, but Sergio Medina, he's the young man I'd like to highlight today. He is a senior this year, and I first met Sergio his sophomore year. He came into my office around January and was like,"Miss, I want to get a head start on my work-based learning hours. So, for those of you that don't know, in the state of Rhode Island, if you're a career and tech education student, you need 80 hours of work-based learning in order to graduate. It's a requirement, so our kids try to get ahead of that, and Sergio was really adamant he wanted to start right away. I typically don't place students that early, but I immediately put on my career coordinator hat and said, okay, are we looking at a detailer, are we looking - he's an automotive student - are we looking at a car wash? What do you think? And he goes, "Oh, well, Miss, I actually went to one of our partners down the street, Apollo Collision, and I gave him my resume, and I asked him if I could do an unpaid internship on Saturdays. Yes, yes, you can. So immediately he started working, and every Saturday he would go in and put in six hours unpaid, and then bring me his signed time sheet on Monday morning. Well, his 80 hours is over, and he told me, he said, 'Okay, miss, I did my 80 hours, I'm going to resign from Apollo collision. He wrote them a beautiful email. He went up in person to the manager and said, 'Thank you so much for this opportunity. I learned so much. My 80 hours is done, and they say. Whoa, whoa, no, no, no, we're gonna hire you, we don't want you going anywhere. So this isn't even the end of his sophomore year, and now he is hired on at Apollo Collision, where he stayed for his sophomore summer all throughout his junior year. And then this year he came up to me and said,"Miss, Apollo Collision has treated me great, but I think I want to get into the mechanic side of automotive, and I would like a different opportunity. Taska Automotive came in and did a career talk, one of our biggest car dealerships in the nation, specifically in the Northeast, and he immediately said to me, Miss, I really would like an opportunity to intern at Tasca, and that's what we did, we got him that unpaid internship again. He went from being a paid employee to an unpaid employee, and what do you know, four weeks later they gave me a call and said Katherine Sergio is absolutely phenomenal. He shows up on time, he puts his phone away, he is locked in doing all the tasks that he's assigned every day, and we want to give him a full time offer, so Sergio is going to be participating in our senior signing day, which is this may 14 with Tasca Automotive, and he has received a full time employment opportunity.

Matt Kirchner: 36:12

We all absolutely love stories like that. I will tell you, as someone who's spent time around the world of sales and marketing for many, many years. One of the biggest challenges we have with, with young people, people new to the world of sales, is the whole idea of a cold call. You know, as Cadence talked about a little bit earlier, walking up, introducing yourself to somebody you don't know, getting to know somebody most visited business development people can't stand cold calling. You know, to hear somebody like Catherine up here talking about spending half of her day cold calling, reaching out to employers. I mean, that's pretty harrowing to begin with. And then to think about a young person like Sergio, who really did the same thing, right? He cold called on Apollo collision, introduced himself, asked for an opportunity, and then you think about those workplace skills in those incredible soft skills, as some people call them, things like knowing to show up on time, learning how to take direction, putting your phone away, you know, the hurdle in the workforce, in some cases, maybe, maybe that doesn't seem particularly high, but I can tell you, as an employer, there are a lot of folks, and young people, and even people much older, that haven't quite learned that yet. So, just an incredible example of the power of work-based learning. I'll also just mention, you know, if you think, if you think back three or four years, kind of post-COVID, it was a much different employment landscape than what we see today, right? I mean, if you, you know, if you could fog a mirror, we would joke, or if you had a pulse, you could, you could have a job, and I can tell you, as someone who talks to a lot of young people, friends of my kids, kids of my friends that are now maybe 1819, 20 in their early 20s, and trying to find a job, that employment landscape looks a lot different, and so it's a lot harder to find a job, especially an entry-level job, and so these experiences that allow students to set themselves apart, absolutely, absolutely important, and I want to reflect and talk a little bit about that, Kathy. With our next question, and that is this: from an employer's perspective, give us some examples or some thoughts on how the types of experiences that Kathy just talked about, or that Katherine- I'm sorry - just talked about, how do those manifest themselves in the hiring in the recruiting process?

Kathy Sutton: 38:20

Yeah, so we heavily rely on our internship program and co-ops to help our direct hiring pipeline right out of high school. Almost all of our students who are doing co-ops, if they have a successful run at that, they will be offered full-time job opportunities upon graduating, and I work with many members at our company that started out doing the summer internship, went on to do the senior year co-op, and one in particular that I'm thinking of graduated in 2019 when I was still an instructor at DDS, and he is now a an electrical supervisor overseeing a team of 70 plus people, and is doing amazing, and guess what, I am now recruiting those company employees to re-engage with the liaison program, so it comes full circle, it's a win-win for us, and it also, it helps retention, right? So, at the end of the day, these students that get that early career exposure and get a taste for, you know, what the day to day looks like, and can help that set them up for success, they'll be more likely to stay with us in the long run and contribute back to all of these meaningful programs and contribute to the success of the company as well,

Matt Kirchner: 39:50

so Who better to advocate for work-based learning than someone that came through a work-based learning program themselves understands the value to a young person and to an employer, so I couldn't. Agree more with that answer. Kathy Cadence. Here's a question for some of our students, and we have a lot of students, and I hear from them. I spend a lot of time in K-12 education, and particularly both comprehensive and non-traditional high schools. For a student who's unsure whether to get involved with work-based learning, Cadence, why should they say yes to these kinds of opportunities.

Kadence Agin: 40:23

My biggest fact that I always state there's never a downside to it. I got involved in the criminal justice program at my school in my freshman year because I thought that's what I wanted to do with my life. I thought I wanted to go into CSI, and then that didn't seem to fit me, and then I thought I wanted to go into forensic science, and then that didn't seem to suit me, and then I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, and then that didn't suit me, and then I began to realize criminal justice just may not be my passion, and that's something that's so important to realize in high school before you get your degree, because as a senior who's currently just committed to a college, college is really expensive, so having to commit to a degree and a passion that you truly are interested, just being able to learn that in high school is something that I truly want to express to all high school students. Find your passion as early as possible, it's not going to hurt you at all. And these classes are going to introduce you to, again, like-minded individuals, people that you are going to become very close with, because you share these classes over the four years, there is never going to be a downside to it, and you are only going to become more of a leader as time goes on.

Matt Kirchner: 41:29

Never going to be a downside to it, recognizing the importance of knowing not just what you might want to do for a career, but often just as important what you might not want to do for a career, and that's incredibly, incredibly valuable, whether that work-based learning experience takes you into that field of study and into that field of work, or in another direction. You're absolutely right, as a parent of two students who are now through college, it can be incredibly expensive, and making sure that we're going on whatever our route is after high school, whether it's going into the military, whether it's going to a technical or community college, whether it's going to a four year university or going to direct direct to workforce, all incredibly valuable opportunities after high school, but knowing what direction to take and not spinning your wheels and making and wasting money, really, really important. I'm going to ask, we've got one time for one final question here, I think, for each of our panelists, if we do this efficiently, and that is for your own area, and we'll start with you, Catherine. In the world of education, if you could give one final piece of advice to educators on how to get started or how to progress with work-based learning, what would that piece of advice be? And then we'll ask the same question to our other two panelists.

Kathryn Dacier: 42:38

I think really open communication with partners with your work-based learning coordinator and with your students. What are the expectations? What does the student want out of their work-based learning experience? And how can your work-based learning coordinator or your career coordinator support them being that liaison? So I'm not a teacher, but I am a career coordinator, so I always want my teachers at Davies to really help bridge that gap with our students and setting those same expectations and keeping those lines of communication really open between the student, the coordinator, or work-based learning placement advisor.

Matt Kirchner: 43:16

Phenomenal advice for educators. And Kathy, same question to you, who are industrial employers.

Kathy Sutton: 43:21

Yeah, I would say again, communication, be open-minded, talk to people, network. I wouldn't be where I am if it weren't for networking, in having that, you know, having, you know, the number of contacts, and just trying new things. So, I think that's really important, and having that passion, you have to have that, you have to be willing to do the hard work. It's not always easy, but having that, you know, that supportive village around you really helps, you know, and being positive, even on, you know, even on the tough days, those are all key wins for me in my personal journey.

Matt Kirchner: 44:04

Some days are easier to be positive than others. So this day, particularly for me, is a really easy day to be positive and be excited about the future, in part because of what we heard from Katherine and Kathy, and certainly the thoughts from Cadence, which included talking about networking, talking about having and following your passion. Any other parting advice, Cadence, for students who are thinking about work-based learning?

Kadence Agin: 44:25

Just kind of realizing there are bumps in the road some days, but these bumps are who makes you what you truly are. All the puzzle pieces in life have to come together to make the big picture. You can't just jump to the end. I didn't just become president of Rhode Island in a day. It took five years of constant work to receive this title, and then when you get the title, you still have to keep working. And my term just ended. That does not mean my involvement with Skills USA is over. I will now be an alumni and can judge these competitions and can help build more student leaders. So kind of realize even when you hit your end goal, it's still going to keep going. Going, and to get to that end goal, it may take a little longer than expected, but be prepared, because in the end, it'll all be okay.

Matt Kirchner: 45:07

That is some really sage advice, Cadence, not just for high school students, but I think for every single one of us here, as we close out our time on this panel, I want to thank Cadence Agen, a senior at Coventry High School, Catherine Sutton, who is senior workforce development specialist at General Dynamics Electric Boat, and Katherine Dacier, a career coordinator at William M. Davies Jr. Career and Tech High School, join me in thanking our wonderful panelists. And thanks. Thanks for joining us on this episode of The TechEd Podcast, all about the present and future of work-based learning. So amazing to have all of our audience members here today in Providence, Rhode Island. Amazing to have all of you streaming with us as well. Please check out the show notes. We will put the show notes at TechEd podcast.com/a C T E TechEd podcast.com/a C T E. And when you're done there, be sure and check us out on social media, you will find us everywhere. We are on YouTube, we are on Instagram, we are on Facebook, we are on TikTok. Wherever you consume your social media, you will find the TechEd Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. My name is Matt Kirkner. We'll see you next week,

Unknown: 46:17

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