Our latest series is all about Redefining Careers and this first episode focuses on the benefits of having different experiences to enable more choice as you progress along your journey. Whether planned or unplanned, actively seeking new experiences gives us more resilience if options suddenly change (recessions, redundancies etc) and keeps us empowered and confident to leave if we are not happy in what we are doing. We are delighted this week to be joined by our amazing guest Andy Pule, who shares his advice for having different experiences. Now working at Director level in an organisation, it is inspiring to hear how often the blips become the opportunities that open up new job experiences. Relationships that form in the early days, can last for years as paths cross again. Its a great listen for anyone feeling stuck in their role and is worrying about leaving; to reassure yourself that the wisdom you have gained in your current role could be really useful in another organisation.
As with so much in life, its about attitude. With a career blip, its about not letting it sit as a chip on your shoulder, but to flip it to a 'what, how, when can I do something about this?' to keep empowered and confident. Blip, chip, flip - its about valuing your unique skills and life is too short to stay stuck in a job that is not right for you. It may take a few years to create the safety net in your life to be able to have choices, but having that exit plan reminds you that you matter.
Andy can be contacted via LinkedIn: Andy Pule
Curious for more?
Ep. 155 When Familiarity Breed Contempt - keep the spark going over the years in role
Ep. 144 Shifting From Imposter to Empower - believing in yourself
Ep.140 Keeping an Optimistic Mindset - how to take the blip and flip (not chip!)
Ep. 137 Keeping Well in a Corporate - a TA perspective with guest Lindsey Thompson
Our latest series is all about Redefining Careers and this first episode focuses on the benefits of having different experiences to enable more choice as you progress along your journey. Whether planned or unplanned, actively seeking new experiences gives us more resilience if options suddenly change (recessions, redundancies etc) and keeps us empowered and confident to leave if we are not happy in what we are doing. We are delighted this week to be joined by our amazing guest Andy Pule, who shares his advice for having different experiences. Now working at Director level in an organisation, it is inspiring to hear how often the blips become the opportunities that open up new job experiences. Relationships that form in the early days, can last for years as paths cross again. Its a great listen for anyone feeling stuck in their role and is worrying about leaving; to reassure yourself that the wisdom you have gained in your current role could be really useful in another organisation.
As with so much in life, its about attitude. With a career blip, its about not letting it sit as a chip on your shoulder, but to flip it to a 'what, how, when can I do something about this?' to keep empowered and confident. Blip, chip, flip - its about valuing your unique skills and life is too short to stay stuck in a job that is not right for you. It may take a few years to create the safety net in your life to be able to have choices, but having that exit plan reminds you that you matter.
Andy can be contacted via LinkedIn: Andy Pule
Curious for more?
Ep. 155 When Familiarity Breed Contempt - keep the spark going over the years in role
Ep. 144 Shifting From Imposter to Empower - believing in yourself
Ep.140 Keeping an Optimistic Mindset - how to take the blip and flip (not chip!)
Ep. 137 Keeping Well in a Corporate - a TA perspective with guest Lindsey Thompson
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Deb's.
Speaker 2:Laura, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing well yeah, busy, how's your? Jet setting.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's been very exciting, you know. It's been really refreshing actually meeting a whole new group of people in a whole different industry that I've never interacted with before. And what was interesting, debs, is those flip charts in that Leadership Summit room, although to those people in the room felt very unique and very specialist.
Speaker 2:Actually we could have lifted and shifted it to pretty much any leadership workshop that we run. Ok, that's interesting. So there's definitely same problems going over in any industry at the minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at some point point your technical craft and expertise that will get you so far, but at some point, when you think about it from a career point of view, it's your relationship skills, it's keeping those networks going, it's engaging people, it's having those impacts. Um, and it was a really interesting insight and I also recognize deb's linking to our first in our five-part, looking at redefining careers. It's quite a privileged insight that we have because we work across so many different industries. We get to see how similar these themes are. I think the longer someone has worked in one industry, the more it can feel like you can't go anywhere else because you've become so specialist. It can feel like you can't go anywhere else because you've become so specialist, which is why we wanted to focus on redefining careers. And what does that mean now?
Speaker 2:And we've got a brilliant five-part focus looking at this with some great guests- we have, and we've got our first guest, which was Andy Pooley shared his career diversity with us, so shall we listen in and see what he has to say? As always, we are delighted to be joined by a guest. Laura and I love having guests on our podcast, and this month's theme is all about making sure that. How do we go about maybe redefining our career, or how do we even go about thinking starting our career? How do we even go about thinking whether we really want maybe redefining our career, or how do we even go about thinking starting our career? How do we even go about thinking whether we really want to stay in our career? So this month is all about how we navigate our way through that and obviously we're joined by a guest, so I'm joined by Andy Pooley today. Hi, andy.
Speaker 3:Hi Debs, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm very well, thank you. So Andy is going to take us through his career defining moments and how his diverse approach to career and what he's learned from that is going to help us understand it's okay. So we're going to sort of explore where Andy's been, what he's done, how he's done it, what lessons he's taken from it. So anybody listening who's thinking about, oh I'm not sure if I can move, or do I want to move, or am I able all of that stuff that might go on in our heads. We're going to explore with Andy what he's experienced and what he's learned from that. So, andy, give us a little bit of a snapshot of your career to date.
Speaker 3:Okay, thanks, debs, a real pleasure to be here with you. So my name's Andy Puley, mid-40s. I'm on the wrong side of the mid-40s now, unfortunately. I'm married with three teenagers. My daughter I can't believe I'm saying this is 19 and I have twin boys of 15. I did have a full head of hair and it was not great. I've lived in or around London pretty much all my life and at the moment I'm delighted and very proud to work for McCarthystone as the colleague strategy director for our property and lifestyle services, known as your McCarthystone.
Speaker 3:Well, when I think about career, I guess where to start, and I guess for me it comes back to the morning of my A-level results Back then, when we didn't have mobile phones in 1996, and I was all set to go to university. As I really wanted to be a teacher, I only really applied for one uni, which was Loughborough. Unfortunately, the results didn't come back as they were predicted. So I kind of got the hump and decided to take a year off and thought I know, I'm going to just get some money behind me and, you know, help with paying for uni going forward. So I decided to move into a full time role at Boots, the Chemists, where I was a Saturday boy. I had been for about two years and within the first three months I was offered an amazing opportunity to enter onto a fast track program where I became a dispenser. So I was the person in the pharmacy that was counting the tablets and pouring the medicine and then giving it to the pharmacist the really important person who would then make sure everything I'd done was right. So I'd done that and really enjoyed that fast track program.
Speaker 3:And then I was offered a great opportunity to be an operations supervisor and in the end I worked there for around two and a half years and it was great fun. Retail was a blast. For anyone that hasn't done it, it's the hardest job I've ever done but actually made some great friends and, you know, just enjoyed every single minute. But I guess I kind of felt like I was literally 20 and I'd become an ops supervisor and at the time to be a manager in the boots world you had to be a pharmacist and so I thought, you know, I'm going to look around and see what else is available. And I then went and joined the London Ambulance Service in the NHS and I started off working in the control room taking 909 calls. And I'll never forget. I was on duty on a night shift in Millennium Eve in 1999. And it was the most bonkers night. We broke every record for every single, every numbers of calls coming in and obviously everyone was really scared about the Millennium bug. So everyone was all sitting there, kind of.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fighting for a distant power. But again, you know some brilliant times and I guess, for the next five years, as a non-online call taker and also someone that dispatched ambulances, I lived my best life, frankly. But then after around five years, I kind of started on my leadership journey. I became an area manager, so responsible for a specific part of London to make sure that every call got an ambulance within a designated time, kind of looking after around 12 team members, and then, over the next eight years or so, just continue to kind of step by step, become more senior and move into kind of a senior, senior leadership role. Ultimately, to the point, by the time I was in 2013, I think I was one of five senior managers responsible for the whole of control services on a shift by shift basis.
Speaker 3:And but are some some amazing highlights there? 2012 Olympics yes, of course that was a real long slog, but such such great kind of team collaboration across all the emergency services and all the different organizations that were um that took part in the olympics. And I was also really lucky that I got opportunities to integrate things like a new computer-aided dispatch system and not that I'm competitive. I was really proud that in the last two years of my time there I am. We've become the highest performing team, which which was something I was quite proud of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good.
Speaker 3:And then after that I guess it got to 2013. And again I guess I just had that kind of itch thinking, well, what next? So I decided to start looking around for other roles in late 2013. I decided to start looking around for other roles in late 2013 and I was lucky enough to secure a complete change of career and I became a terminal manager at Heathrow right? Yes, I was part of the team that successfully opened terminal 2 and helped to transition. What was it?
Speaker 3:28 airlines and that was where I first met you Debs and first it was boot camp, exactly, exactly still say it was the best learning development sessions I ever had and I absolutely loved my time at heathrow.
Speaker 3:But, um, frankly, I live in kent and the commute to heathrow on a shift by shift basis was a killer. So I started to look around and I then moved to another airport, at Gatwick, where I joined there as an incident operations manager, which was kind of like an airport duty manager role. So on a shift by shift basis, you're kind of the responsible person and, again, I loved my time at gatwick. I learned so much, loved every moment, made friends for life, um, and actually at that point uh moved from a kind of shift role to a more, uh, grown-up role in a, in a senior leadership role, where I then became head of passenger operations and services, uh, and led, I guess at that point my by far my biggest team. Um was was leading other leaders for the first time. Uh, and just um had the best time and was inspired by so many people that I worked around at that point, um, that really really asked me and forced me to challenge myself and my own beliefs. And then COVID hit and, as it did for like everyone in aviation and in many other industries, it really did decimate the business. And so, for the first time in my career, I found myself employed, and that came with its own challenges. It came with its own tests of resilience and patience and after, I guess, the worst of the lockdown the first lockdown this was I started looking for other roles and during that time I went back to the ambulance service to volunteer to help with the COVID response and again was really really humbling to see those on the real front line impacted on a day-to-day basis and I learned so much around that side of it, rather than the leadership journey, but that kind of selflessness that I saw on a day-to-day basis, and it was so, so inspiring.
Speaker 3:But then, after a relatively short period of time, um, I then, uh, joined the metropolitan police service, uh, so I kind of went public sector into the private sector, back to the public sector, I guess, because, frankly, I think I lost a bit of confidence during that period, um, and I kind of thought well, this is similar to maybe what I know best and little did I know, I mean, despite being another emergency service, a completely different kettle of fish. The Met Police is an amazing place to work but is a monster in terms of size and my role there was really really, really good, really interesting. My role, uh, was to provide all of the support services to um enable frontline police officers to do their job. So things like uniform, things like vehicles, things like um lockers, um very important, yeah, all the really important stuff. And and that was really really good Again learned some real interesting things and knowledge, insight, and again really challenged myself to kind of get back on the horse and to try something new.
Speaker 3:And then the job that I'm now in came kind of out the blue. I wasn't really looking, um, and and actually I was contacted by an ex-colleague who said, look, I work for this business and, uh, we're looking to recruit kind of some high caliber leaders. Is it something that you might be interested in? And at the time I wasn't, um, but then I thought, well, you never know, and I'm a big believer in fake deb. So, um, I thought, well, let's just see what happens.
Speaker 3:And actually I had my first of about four interviews, um, and met some amazing people that then went on to be my colleagues, uh, and and my, the people that I reported into uh, so took the jump into retirement living and kind of home building and I haven't really looked back. So my first role there was as a divisional director, and so I come from London, in the southeast, and then, after just over a year, my current role came up, which is colleague strategy director, as I said, um, and that really gives me an opportunity to focus in on something that I am personally very passionate about, which is such as learning, development, mentorship, coaching, um, and, you know, encouraging people to be the best they can be, and so my role is really working very closely with our hr colleagues, um, to develop the best colleague proposition that we possibly can.
Speaker 2:Nice, wow, you're loving it. I love it. You can see, but as you're talking, obviously for those listening, I don't know if you can hear it in Andy's voice, but certainly watching you can see the memories of great times, threw yourself into it, you were challenged around it and what I love is the fact you've sort of gone that, as you said, for retail, public, private, public police into McCarthystone, into airports, into aviation. It's been such an eclectic career yet you've succeeded throughout that. So when people you hear people say I can't change industries or I can't move because this is all I know, what would you say to them?
Speaker 3:Well, I guess the first, the best piece of advice I ever got, debs and I remember this was in my first two months of working at Heathrow. So just to put into context, I'd kind of grown up at the ambulance service. I met my wife there. All my children were born whilst I worked at the ambulance service and I guess I turned from a boy into a man and because I'd done every role I'd almost saw myself as a bit of a subject matter expert. And then I went into the aviation industry and thought, oh my goodness, like literally Debs, I didn't sleep, I don't think, for the first two months Because I was trying to be all things to all people. And the best piece of advice I got was I got told to stop apologising for what I felt I didn't know Right and to remember the reason that I'd been brought in in the first place.
Speaker 2:Okay, great advice.
Speaker 3:And that piece of advice really, really stuck with me and really resonated, because I thought, well, actually they're right, if they wanted someone that knew everything about airports, they would have brought someone in from an airport, but they didn't. Maybe that through the process they maybe saw something in me that they didn't already have. So I think I guess, in summary, just go for it as long as it's right for you, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean because I guess the truth of the matter is your experience, your knowledge, your CV doesn't go away. The truth of the matter is your experience, your knowledge, your cv doesn't go away. So if it doesn't work, that's okay. You're still going to be just as good as you were, but it just means that you were brave enough to try and and actually think about what could have been. You know, if you had you not have moved. You'd always be wondering to yourself or should I've taken that job, or should I have applied for that job?
Speaker 2:yeah, I love that. Love that, yeah, super important. You know what I love when you said someone gave you that advice about stop apologising because they've got you in for a reason. We hear that quite a lot, obviously when we're coaching others, and especially those who are transitioning through different careers, and they have this imposter syndrome that goes on and says surely I can't. So when you're thinking about somebody who may be thinking of just taking their skill set and lifting it up and moving into something else. What would be some of the pitfalls to look out for and, if you had any, how did you overcome them? That being one, someone said stop apologizing. What other pitfalls did you experience through your diverse career? Really, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think pretty much whenever I've moved probably since that first time, from the ambulance service to Heathrow, or maybe even, to a degree, heathrow to Gatwick as well was so one of the pitfalls is trying to do too much all at once. So I have a list all the time and it's got a do now, do later, and that helps me prioritise what's most important, both for me and also for the business, wherever I'm working. And that just manifests itself into my personal life as well, because for me it's just helped me focus my mind, but also allows me to think about the intent what is it I'm trying to achieve, what is it I'm trying to deliver, and why basically? And so I think that would be one I think linked to that is probably over-promising and under-delivering. And for me and I don't think I hope I've not done this too often or if at all, but I've definitely seen other people do it For me that's the easiest way to lose your team, because you will offer them the world.
Speaker 3:You'll say, oh yeah, we're going to have face to face, one to ones, every single week. Then real life takes over and it just becomes impossible. And then then they will say well, actually, that first transaction, of the first five transactions we had, um, you've only actually delivered on one of them. So again, my advice would be have a plan and stick to it, and then um, I guess the last one, which I've kind of covered a little bit around, that don't apologize. Remember where you've been brought in, but I think for me it's around, rather than focusing on the on, on the what, um, and I think a lot of people, especially when you're changing career completely, you're like I want to be this, I want to be the expert in everything, so I look for what skills? Actually, just remember that the how is just as important, if not more important. So the way you deliver and the way you show up, you can fully control that and you can own it. And so I think it's around just being that leader.
Speaker 2:Try and inspire people, generate commitment and and buying and you said obviously, when you sort of went from you know boy to man in the ambulance service, who was it? I suppose that inspired you in there to to enable you to see it. Because obviously, when you said you went through boots and they obviously spotted something within you way back then, even though it was just an odd job to start with, but somebody spotted something within you. So when you've gone through your career and thought about those people that have influenced you, you've said the person that gave you the advice from T2, you've probably had loads of advice and guidance from others. But if there were some areas where you think actually I learned from that individual, that person or that organisation, what would be some of your biggest learns? Would you say?
Speaker 3:Wow, I mean you might get me a bit emotional here, deb. So I guess some of the most influential people in my life, no doubt about it, my wife, I think um, when I talked about those five years living my best life, um, I was quite happy, just plodding away, taking the money, doing some overtime, going out, and then and then I met Ray, my wife, and, and actually she, she was the first one, I think, that ever lit that fire within me to say actually you can be, you can do and be more than you currently are if you just give yourself the chance, Because I think I've always been that and it will stem back to the A-level results right.
Speaker 3:Now looking back, I can directly do that.
Speaker 2:You can see the link, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And then secondly, my daughter, because she was born very premature. She was born at 27 weeks, she weighed one pound 10. And she had the fight of her life for the first six to eight weeks and we thought, yeah, it was touch and go for a long time and seeing her being that kind of little fighter and resilient and not giving up kind of instilled that in me and thought, well, blimey, if this one pound 10 little baby can do this, I'm sure I can.
Speaker 3:So I think from that on a personal level and I think, um, professionally, uh, I think I can call out freaky people that really really made a difference. First was the was the best kind of line manager leader I ever had, that's. That was a chap called paul cassidy, um, and then um. Equally so, I met, met Paul at the ambulance service, and I think he was the first one to take a chance on me.
Speaker 3:And then, secondly, fiona Carlton, who I've worked with at many points in my career, both at the ambulance service that he threw in, now more recently at McCarthystone, who is the most inspirational leader and the best managing director you could ever work for. And then I guess the final one would be a chap called chris woodruff, uh at gatwick, who I think first took the chance on me to be a senior leader. I think he saw something in me from a personal perspective and and really focusing on the how, and he felt, I believe, that I could give balance to a team, um, that was hugely talented, hugely focused on delivering um, you know, uh, the what and and doing the hell very, very well. But Chris really was the one that gave me that kind of first senior leadership role.
Speaker 2:So right they'd be my kind of five people who really lit a fire or gave me the opportunities yeah, and obviously I know some of those names that you're mentioning there, and I absolutely can concur with that because they people come in your life for a reason, I think, and they give you that guidance and and and especially when you're you, as you said, your career is taking you into many different avenues, and to have those people there that believe in you, I think, is something that you don't see in yourself, like take a chance, give yourself a break, be brave, as you know, which are some of the words that you've used and and that resilience that comes through, to always have that willingness to want to learn as well, and I think that that doesn't come easy right. So if you, if someone you know, you're speaking to someone and you might be mentoring them who are starting out in their career, how, I suppose, is it? How? How would you ask them to be?
Speaker 2:You mentioned about intentional, looking at not just the what, understanding the skills you have, but how you then deliver that. How would you enable someone who's at the start of their career to say it's okay to just give it a go and give yourself a chance? What else would you say to somebody at that point in their career that said you don't really have to stay in this job forever, there are other opportunities. What would you? What advice would you give anybody starting out in their career?
Speaker 3:okay. So, I guess, to be inquisitive and and to be open-minded and if you get chance, even when you're in a business, to try as many different things within that business as you can, and when you find something that you enjoy, work hard and then focus on things that you can control and influence and do whatever you can to try and block out the things that you can't, because they just become a distraction and an obstacle to performance. Um, and I think, again, it's around building relationships and taking your time to get to get to know those around you and and think about how you want your career to kind of progress, either in that company or in that industry or field of work. And I think it's like you just mentioned find that person, find your person. Now, it could be someone that you look up to, that you probably never speak to, but you think, wow, I just love the way you know the spirit, the energy that they walk in, the way they show up, um, or you know the kindness sometimes that they show, sometimes just holding a door open for someone and generating a conversation or while you're waiting for a lift or something like that is, um, is just try and find that person, try and find that advocate, um, but equally and I know this is tough, especially and I think it's got tougher as maybe as I've got older or as post-covid world or whatever it is but you know, don't be afraid to ask for help, don't be't be afraid to give a bit of yourself, because actually that kind of giving shows that degree of emotional intelligence and emotional awareness.
Speaker 3:So I think, from that perspective, if you're starting your career, I'd say if you're going into a leadership role and a lot of people do enter their first job and become people leaders, I guess and for me it's the biggest honour and privilege you can ever have in terms of leading people. But for some people it's a real learning journey and for me it was back in the ambulance service, because I was definitely a manager rather than a leader back in those days. And for me me it's around thinking about the type of leader you want to be and just really be a sponge, because you can learn from other leaders, whether it's good or bad, because you might think you know, I've seen someone do something and I'm never doing that, um, and for me, I think, even when you're having the most difficult of conversations, people will always remember how what you said made them feel.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily what you said.
Speaker 3:You can have some really really difficult conversations around body odour and really really challenging ones, but actually you can still do it in the right way. So I guess, like, in summary, summary, just be. You've got to be yourself.
Speaker 2:There's no point going in to be something you're not and just give it your all yeah, absolutely yeah, because I'm with you on that and and I think what I also loved is the fact you're saying it's about building those relationships and noticing enough to notice who those people are that are doing it well. But I also love the fact you've said notice the ones that aren't doing it well and learn from them too.
Speaker 2:Right because, there are some out there, you go oh my god, I can't believe you've just done that. Or you just said that, oh, I'm not going to repeat that and everything else. So I suppose it's sort of, if you're at the start, I love that advice to people to go just do it, be you, be authentic. Don't try and be somebody you're not, because a lot of it is comparing yourself to others and I'm not as good as, or I haven't got that university degree or whatever it might be that can hold people back at that age, but obviously you you're proof that it actually that didn't matter and I think you know that's the real lesson sometimes, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, absolutely, and I have no doubt that for years it probably held me back, not in terms of not being given opportunities or being overlooked for roles, but in terms of my own mindset and my own confidence. And for so many years I was thinking, oh, I'm going to go back and do an open university degree and actually, you know, I feel more fulfilled in my role that I've currently got and every role that I've had since kind of the ambulance service actually I feel I've been really really lucky but I've been really fulfilled, feel I've been really, really lucky, um, but I've been really fulfilled, I've been really happy, I felt I've had added value. And the biggest delight for me is is when you leave a role and when someone that you've mentored or led or been under your kind of leadership then replaces you, because for me, it never gets any better than that, and I've been really fortunate in at least three of those roles where that has been the case and it's just just what an amazing, what an amazing thought yeah, it's good, isn't it?
Speaker 2:and I know I've come across a couple of people, as I've. Obviously, we, we work in many different areas and and everything else. And your name popped up recently, um, around someone that went yeah, you gave me a chance. Yeah, you're working with him, you work with Andy Pooley, we go, yeah, we are actually, he goes. Well, he gave me the chance to be the leader I am today, and if it wasn't for his belief in me, then I wouldn't be where he was today. And I know I replayed that back to you because you know, just to hear that.
Speaker 2:It's just, you never know the impact you're having right on on anybody or what they take from you, and I think that's that's sometimes, that knowing what you do bring rather than what you don't bring, and that belief in yourself and everything else. So I suppose my question is on this one is are you glad you did not stay in one industry?
Speaker 3:oh, 100, 100 but. But actually there's part of I mean, if I don't, if I discount boots because I was like a proper kid, then I guess from the ambulance service. I was there 15 years. As I said, I grew up there. It's probably still in my dna and I'll never say never. If the most perfect job in the world ever came up there, I'd have to seriously consider it. But I was aware at the time that I just reached my natural plateau in the environment. I'd done everything I could do within the control room and knew that it was time to try something else, kind of try something completely different. I considered training and going out and being a paramedic or something, and then I realized that I didn't really like blood and didn't really like the smell of sick.
Speaker 2:That might have been a bit of a hindrance.
Speaker 3:Exactly and as I think, as I mentioned earlier, the move or taking the plunge to move from the ambulance service and then start work at Heathrow. And I remember my last shift in the ambulance service was New Year's Eve, 2013. And I remember I got a lift halfway home and then my wife came and picked me up from the other half and I remember standing by the side of the road having this complete emotional breakdown because I'd kind of it was like cutting off the umbilical cord. Actually, that proved to me over time that that was absolutely the right decision to make, because I'd become too emotionally attached. So I think that the move, or the decision to move, changed my life. It changed my perspective, or the decision to move changed my life. It changed my perspective and, like I say, and also my leadership style.
Speaker 3:I did genuinely used to struggle a lot with self-confidence and self-doubt, and proving myself at Heathrow and then at Gatwick and then subsequently in other roles, has really helped me overcome those things and really I'm now much more optimistic than I ever were and I think I've got that kind of growth mindset. Um, and now for me, it's more about okay, well, what can now? What can I now offer for the next generation. How can I um, mentor, coach, support, inspire people and, like you said with with that colleague that you, you gave me that feedback around that means so much when you hear things like that. So so, as I say, I think I definitely. I think over time I've become gone from like a kind of 1990s manager to much more of a leader and and and, um, and something I'm really, really proud of. But but yes, going back to the original question, am I glad I didn't stay on one industry?
Speaker 2:yes, 100% yeah and that, and I think it's taking that leap of faith. And you mentioned the word brave. I think there's a level of bravery to step into something new, but knowing, as you said, what you can bring to that and believing in yourself to do that. And I think a lot of people, mid-career, would love to diversify into another career, but they don't for a number of 100 reasons for them. But what would you say to them? Based on your learning over that period of time, you've got someone who's coming to you and in midlife you know mid-career thinking about diversifying into a different industry. What would you say to them?
Speaker 3:just do it and and and I do. But I say that, but also want to be really, really candid and say as we get, as we all get older, it's more difficult.
Speaker 3:There is there is no doubt in my mind and I guess me, moving from the met police to my role in mccarthy stone. I spent weeks thinking about that decision, versus a day or two from going from the ambulance service to Heathrow, because there was 10, 15 years and a whole worth of life experience in between. I guess I would think about why you were even looking in the first place, because if you were 100% fulfilled, you wouldn't have been looking. And if the right opportunity comes along, why not? And just because you may be in your 40s or 50s, whatever you know, we're all going to be working a little bit longer than maybe our parents or our grandparents were, so actually we've got as much ahead of you as probably behind you.
Speaker 3:And and actually learning a different skill, learning learning different techniques, learning from other people in a different industry, can be like restarting almost. And, as I said before, none of moving into a different industry doesn't take away all the fantastic experiences that you've had in the past, because they're your truth and you can always, you can always turn back on them and you can always. You can always go back, maybe cap in hand sometimes, and say but in my experience and for many people I've spoken to, it's not just me. I know many people like me that have done a multitude of roles. Nine times out of ten. It's a really, really wholly positive experience. And then what happens is, over time, you tend to look back more fondly on the previous roles because they helped you get to where you are now. And you know, because I probably, if I look back at it at the ambulance service, I'd almost start to really dislike it, even though I didn't, but now I look back and I'm hugely fond of it. So I guess it's almost be proud of where you've come from and knowing the fact that it's time to move on and give it a go.
Speaker 3:And again, don't be shy in asking for support. Don't be shy in asking for assistance and advice. And don't think you're going to go in knowing it all. And there may be people 20 years younger than you that look at it thinking, wow, you know, they know how to use this system really, really well, going knowing it all. And there may be people 20 years younger than you that are thinking, wow, you know, they've, they know how to use this system really, really well, and they're all about this manufacturing technique. Well, actually, you may have been brought in to to lead that team and to make the most of that team and to bring the best out in them, rather than being doing the same job as them yeah, doing the expert, being the expert, such good advice.
Speaker 2:Because, yeah, we've seen people think, well, I'm walking in here because I know it all and you don't, because it's a different industry, different people and that ego that sometimes comes with people. I always encourage them to just leave that behind and, as you said earlier, going with that open mind to and willingness to want to learn and being humble, I suppose, in knowing that you don't know it all and that's why you're here, but knowing what you do know, which is going to enable you to do that, which is just incredible to just stop and think about. And I love how you've used the examples and you said you look back in fondness now, and I think you know that question. If someone's in their midlife thinking about diversifying into a different career, yeah, definitely, look at, look at. Well, why am I even looking? There must be something missing. Or I'm ready for that next leap of faith or that next level up or broadening my horizons, because, yeah, I think it's going to be a skill for the future, right?
Speaker 2:100%, 100% yeah, it is. So I mean, andy, we could talk for hours about this because, um, you know, we've only really really touched on a small part of what you bring and how that's helped you with your leadership, and what you're doing today and how you instill that in others. You can see that in the teams that you lead as well. But for people listening in and watching for today, what would be your call to action around around this topic of you know, being able to sort of stop and think about that ability to think career diversity. What does that mean to me? How does that help me in being an even better leader, even better manager? Um, what would be your call to action for people?
Speaker 3:so I guess really good question. I guess my call to action would be that you almost never really know what you can truly offer unless you try. And sometimes, when you try and get it right, you can offer so so much to so many people. And if the worst that happens is you try and get it wrong, then you still learn from it. So I guess give it a go.
Speaker 2:Just give it a go. Oh my God, I love that. Give it a go. Yeah, what's the worst that can happen? That's that Dr Pepper moment, isn't it? Nothing, that's what we say. Oh my God, andy, it's been a real joy to talk to you today and I've learned something, because I hadn't appreciated. That's where you started your career in retail, which is a tough industry. It was then, it certainly still is now and that ability to learn and grow throughout your career. So you're, you know, leading leaders and instilling that in them. So I just want to say a massive thank you and appreciation for your time today and sharing your learns and wisdom. So, in the hope that someone's listening in, they might go. I can do that. Yeah, why not give it a go? I love it. Oh, thank you so much, andy, for your time and, um, yeah, catch up with you soon.
Speaker 3:Thanks, debs, take care.
Speaker 2:So Law. What did you reckon?
Speaker 1:Oh, he's such a lovely human, isn't he? Andy Pooley is one of my favourite people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and his take on his career and I think he mirrors quite a few people's thoughts around a career. It should have gone to uni, was expected to do that, didn't, but actually his career has just enabled him to have different opportunities. So I think that was always interesting for me to hear, because not everybody chooses a university route. I certainly didn't way back when, and that's okay. You've got to recognise your skills that you bring and, as you were saying earlier, the diversity of the skills, regardless of the industry. It's what you bring into the party that's going to make a difference for you. And I thought his um, his history and his timeline I thought was super important and, um, I just think it resonated um, certainly with me and probably with some of our listeners as well that go oh okay, I can jump careers if I need to, which is what's happening in the world at the moment. Right, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think that ability to turn it from carrying a chip on your shoulder I could have been this, I could have been a contender and to flip it into all right. Well, actually, from this blip, rather than carry a chip that at age 21 feels like my career's doomed, actually he flipped it, whether that is via the relationships that had an impact on him or making that conscious choice to think actually, what can I do about this? And I think it was an inspirational lesson. Whether you're at the dusk, the noon or the dawn of your career, whether you're starting out, whether you're at the dusk, the noon or the dawn of your career, whether you're starting out, whether you're midway, whether you're kind of the, the end is in sight and you want to leave on a high. That ability not to hold ourselves back because of those blips that we might have, but to see it actually, that can convert into what could be the biggest opportunity.
Speaker 1:And the thing is, as Andy said, at the time when you're in that storyline, you don't know how it's going to end. So it can feel really difficult and gloomy and a bit depressing. So I think, just holding your nerve and seeing a career for what it is. It is a storyline that some chapters might be easy and some chapters might not be so, but to stay stuck is is, is doesn't have to be that way. So I think that was a really inspiring um, listen and also remembering that matter where you're at the dawn, the noon or the dusk of your career, you are impacting other people and carrying and taking those people with you is the networks. Did you know? In January 2024bs, the billionth user joins LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:Wow, billionth. The billionth oh my goodness, that's mad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when I've had a couple of conversations with people who've said, you know, I'm feeling like I need to stretch my wings a little bit or I'm not enjoying what I'm doing, I say, are you on LinkedIn? And it blows my mind when people say, no, actually Get on LinkedIn. That is the place to to find and to just see the big old wide world that's out there. Um, but you've got that safety net because it's via your relationships and your networks. So that would be a piece of advice. If you're not on linkedin, it's a great place to start.
Speaker 1:If you just want to start having a bit of a sniff around yeah, good shout.
Speaker 2:I also love, love your blip chip flip. That's going to set me up for the day. Oh, it's a little bit of blip, that's fine. I've got a chip on my shoulder, I'm just going to flip it. I love that. It's so cool, so come on, then, laura, what? Would be your call to action. I'm going to ask you a call to action rather than I'll do the share the secret. All right, cool.
Speaker 1:So my call to action would be if you're not on LinkedIn, get on LinkedIn. This isn't to encourage everyone to resign and leave their jobs, but it is to remind you that where you are now is a choice and then actually to start enjoying and have more agency in the current role that you're in. It could be that you've got a mate who's feeling a little bit stuck or a bit low in their job and just getting to listen to Andy because you know it doesn't have to be that way. You can flip and move across different organizations and actually that's a sign of a really great career. If you think about careers redefined, that one job for life I think we all know that has gone. In fact that is inappropriate, almost to suggest that there is a job for life. But now, in terms of that future career and redefining that, that movement around it is a sign of strength as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. I love that. So my share the secret would be anybody that is thinking about where is my career going is thinking about where is my career going. My share the secret would be getting to listen to Andy and get them to recognise their own skills and what they can bring. And if they choose to move different industries, that's okay. Different departments, even if they're in a company that's a big, big company that allows them to move within the company. But I think that would be my share the secret. Get someone to listen to it, who you know is maybe going through a little bit of a blip, not having a chip, but get them to just listen in and maybe flip their thinking around it. That would be my share the secret law. I love it.
Speaker 1:Wonderful Deb. I dare you to do that in the rap style, Just to like.
Speaker 2:No one would want to hear that Blipip, blip, chip blip. Get down with the kids. I don't think that sits well with me.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'll tell you what, though, listeners, if we caught her at the dawn of her career, she'd be all over it.
Speaker 2:I would be all over it, not anymore. I know my strengths.
Speaker 1:Debs. I am so looking forward to exploring more this Redefining Careers, what might have looked like a good CV in 2000,. It's a different world out there and I think, as facilitators and coaches who hop across industry, it is quite astonishing just how these common, similar themes are. So, rather than feeling like you're stuck in one industry, actually to transfer their skills across it can be life-changing in terms of that sense of confidence and just opening your eyes up to some fresh experiences yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to this series law. So, um, I will catch up with you next week and then we will start even more chats around. What does this mean in reality? I love it beautiful debs.
Speaker 1:May you have a blip free week if not, I'll be flipping we hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secrets from a coachcom, or follow us on Insta or Facebook. If you're a Spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacoachcom and sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work.