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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
174. Prioritising Workload and Managing Expectations
Our latest 5-part series is all about Managing a Continuous Workload, where we explore strategies for handling a busy workload that never seems to have a lull. This first episode is all about prioritising workload and communicating clearly to people so expectations - if not matched, are at least managed well. We share our CLAWS tool to decide who and how to update people, and the STROKE checklist for absolute clarity throughout a task or project. We demo an example of how to say no, and our number one top tip for handling even the most trickiest of stakeholders. And it involves paws.
A good listen for those who are finding workload volumes a challenge at the moment, or want to support others with practical ideas to convert problems in to solutions.
Hot topic for you? Take a deeper dive in our related episodes:
Ep. 167 Keeping Optimistic During Challenge
Ep. 113 Managing Expectations - Who's Job?
Ep. 131 Reducing Blame Forming Within a Hybrid Team
Ep.120 Employee Engagement is a Two-Way Street
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of phenomenal training. Devs, laura, you're alright. Yeah, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, not bad. Thank you. Yes, busy, as always, as we know, lots going on at the moment, but, yeah, getting through it.
Speaker 1:Which is why we thought we just had to cover what seems to be the topic of the decade at the moment at least anyway which is how do you manage what seems to be an ever-increasing workload? What are some tips and tricks, not only to keep calm through all of that, but also to have a positive reality check and to do something about it if actually it's unsustainable in terms of what that is? So welcome to our five-part focus. Oh, yes, it's five, isn't it? Yes, cram, another one in Dev. Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1:So, five-part focus, which is looking at how we manage continuous workload. So on this episode, we're going to be looking at prioritisation and managing expectations. We'll then build on that to how to have the conversation if there is an opportunity to renegotiate workload. We're then going to be joined by a guest Lex, looking at what happens if we don't do any of this stuff. So what does burnout mean? What does that mean to watch out for? We're then going to look at some tools and tips for delegation, so you don't have to be a manager or top of the pile to then be able to delegate. It's a lifestyle choice rather than an organisational position, and we're then going to wrap it up with? How do we keep well if we've got a busy workload and there's lots on Because it's not just work, debs that, I think, gives people things to do. There's life that needs managing as well, as well as the day job or the night job or wherever it is type of work that you've got.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's definitely, and I think being able to prioritise that and manage expectations to prevent that feeling of overwhelm or on that slope down to burnout is super important, and being able to take into consideration some things that you could do that are within your control to do can help avoid that, as, wherever possible and yes, this is a really good series because there's so much going on, as you said around at the moment, where I'm certainly hearing I'm super busy there's lots on. I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed with my workload. I don't know what to do for a second, third, fourth. So there's loads of noise around this and I think what I'm noticing is that approach around could you just in inverted commas when people are relying on people to just drop everything and do something to help them. I think that's wearing a little bit thin at the moment and isn't maybe as easily accessible as it was Now that we're sort of having a mix of remote hybrid in real life working. Could you just is like words that I think are going to be banned actually.
Speaker 1:So maybe back in the day there would have been more discretionary effort that people could have given. But if actually someone has taken the decision, no, I end work at 1700 hours and that is a non-negotiable, whereas maybe in different times you might have been able to squeeze another 15, 20 minutes out of as you said. Oh, could you just have a look at this? If actually people are less open for doing that, for whatever reason, then that's got a couple of knock on effects. It means we have to work really organised. If actually you can't always rely on people overworking. And it also means if you are currently getting put upon and you're kind of having lots of blurred boundaries at the moment, then how you can ensure that it doesn't spoil your energy for work so you're able to keep and sustain that.
Speaker 1:I think there's a couple of things as well.
Speaker 1:You mentioned about hybrid, so maybe the slight shift in or big shift we've seen in relationships and then that willingness to help each other out after hours, for example, requiring more pristine ways of working inside hours. The second thing as well I've certainly seen is there's just less people to go around. Most organizations are now running very lean teams because they've had to really tighten the belt because of the knock-on effects from the first part of this decade. Not many teams have got a few spare people hanging around who can pick up the slack. You might have people who are literally holding it all together the only person that was responsible for social media, the only person that is responsible for booking that particular thing happening, whereas when there is more people to go around, you've got a bit more of that shared responsibility. Not only is there maybe more work to do, because expectations are rising and everyone is in a doing mode, there's also less people to share that workload around. That then arrives at some very squished people who are currently really feeling, as you said, quite overwhelmed in the middle of all of that.
Speaker 2:It's also a risk, I think, to the business to even consider that, as you said, if you've got one person that is really responsible for, as you said, the social media, putting stuff out there, and that person, it all falls on them. They're going to have a knock-on effect going. I can't take time off, I've got to be there. The knock-on effect of that on their mind, health and mental health is massive because they might feel a complete sense of responsibility, accountability, ownership, that they must be there. They must do this. Whoever says, can you? Just, they're going, especially if it's somebody, something from above, they're going. Yes, of course I can. If you're sacrificing their time, maybe with their family or friends, because they are the only one. I think it's a risk for a business to only rely on one person, or to do that rather than, or, as you said, that manager might be the only one who may have somebody helping them. Then suddenly they go off and then that's left to that one person who's maybe a more junior member of the team, who will have an overwhelming sense of responsibility and want to prove themselves, etc. Etc. Again, at what cost to them and the risk to the business.
Speaker 2:I think, whilst companies are looking at cost efficiencies and making it lean. I just think that's going to potentially, if they don't stop and review, it will bite them in the ass if they get really stuck, because then who do they put that on? I know, certainly in my experience, the people above not dissing people above, but they're not taking it on themselves. They're continually pushing it down or finding someone else who could take that on as well as their day job. I think there's a big reset and a rethink needed, and smart, astute leaders will be conscious of that. Those that are just driving through work, plugging it on, plugging it on, not considering their teams, that's when it's going to cause friction. Maybe people go off sick, they'll be off longer, they won't want to come back, they find different jobs and this negativity, this toxic environment, will exist if you're not careful. I think it's a risky strategy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Maybe for a couple of days, a couple of weeks, even a maximum of a couple of months, but it's when it turned into years of expectation that that's when the will just gets reduced. I guess what I hope and intend for this series was is you don't have to quit to get a better life work balance. There are some things that you can do to keep empowered to still be a can-do person, but it might not be a right now person. Some simple ways that we're seeing people are sharing in sessions with us of things that have worked, and some techniques as well. Just to bring it to life a little bit, Devs, let's have a look at some key aspects that can really help someone prioritize and manage expectations. I'm going to start with a little experiment. Go on, then. I love an experiment. If it's safe to do so, join us. You're invited to join in on this exercise as well. If you can write it down, brilliant. If you can't just visualize that.
Speaker 1:So picture the scene, Devs, A brand new person has come onto your work radar. You don't know what they're like. You've never worked with each other before. They seem perfectly pleasant. You've had the get-into-know-you meeting. They've said at the end of that meeting? Great, I'll send you that information over tomorrow morning. In your mind, what does tomorrow morning mean to you? What point does that email become late? Because as you leave that meeting, you're also starting to think about what you need to do with the info that they're going to send you over. So, Deb's, I know one, I would expect it. So someone that's unknown to me has just given the commitment I'll send you the information over tomorrow morning. So what's your time?
Speaker 2:So my time. If someone said I'll send it over tomorrow morning, I'd expect it to be tomorrow morning. Ie, I have it by before midday. Okay, so I'm the same. Okay, cool yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a long to tell you Some people aren't no Law. No, no. So whenever we run this exercise and it's a brilliant one to do with the team if you see that there is a general opportunity from sharpening up how we articulate time if things are starting to slip a little bit, I've seen anything up to a seven-hour age range, time range, time range.
Speaker 2:yeah, I bet.
Speaker 1:So some people saying, well, I start my shift at 7.30, so I want it to be there. Then Other people might say before lunch, and I don't take a lunch till 2.30, as long as it's before lunch. So I've seen it in the room where there is this amazing moment of people going oh my God, because tomorrow morning, end of play, end of the week, end of the month, these vague ways of referring to time, and what that leads to then is a bunching up and a stress potential that's starting to build up Because, let's say, off the back of this little fantasy exercise we've done, you've then left the meeting with. Now you and I would be all right because We'd be all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I'd expect it by midday.
Speaker 1:Cool.
Speaker 1:And then if, actually, I needed to pass that information on to someone else, I know that I'd be able to do that two hours later, for example, but if someone is at 9am, they might then leave that meeting already pre-committing to someone else. Yeah, I'll get you that analysis by 10, but you might still be waiting for that info. What that then creates is two pressured people, all because it was a bit flimsy the way the deal was set at the start and, just like money, time is the most precious currency and people interpret it in different ways. So what this often creates is a realisation that if we are a bit flaky in how we make our commitments around time, then potentially that's going to lead to vagueness and a bit of stress and pressure as a result of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean yeah, 100%. And I think actually, to be fair, I've learnt that if someone says I'll get it over tomorrow morning, then my expectations of that now are lunchtime, as long as it's over by midday, whereas maybe before I would have been that well, I'm up. So tomorrow morning for me is that. But I think I've learnt to adjust and reset expectations and I've learnt to ask, which is the other thing I think and knowing, I think it links into then, how do you work within your own boundaries? So your boundaries is similar to the same as me, so we're happy, right, we won't expect it, but would we expect it? But if it's late or one o'clock, would we then send that email to go tomorrow morning? Because you're you know?
Speaker 2:So it's really interesting, isn't it? The communication that we use has got to be really clean and clear so that people know what the boundaries are, because they may have some, a million or one other things on their plate and if there are people pleaser, they might have said yeah, I get that to you tomorrow morning, and then, when they stop and think about it, that's one of maybe I don't know 20 tasks that they've said they're going to get someone by tomorrow morning. So how do they, I suppose, work out what's the priority, what isn't a priority, then how do they set their boundaries around that and be able to communicate that clearly, which is always an interesting one for people to consider around that, especially if they are wanting to please people?
Speaker 1:And I know you're going to take us through some refreshers of the principles for time management, because if you can't manage your own time, it's really tricky to manage the overall time and work with other people as well. But it just made me smile because I did this exercise with a set of first time managers last week and they'd all sort of started to think about right, okay, anytime I talk about time, I'm basically going to say and I need that by 1130. And then we had a conversation around. This isn't about barking orders to people, about. You know, someone says I'll send you the email over tomorrow morning. Right, well, I need it, my 930.
Speaker 1:So, rather than barking out orders, it's then just a little gentle follow on question Brilliant. So I know what to commit onto someone else. When were you roughly expecting it? 930? Brilliant. And then that little gentle questioning once the other person has then said well, it will be by such and such. The commitment is done, it's been agreed. So you don't have to suddenly become all kind of, you know, dictatorial, you know wagging your finger at people when I need it by 1030. It's just a subtle questioning, just so we're clear. Both parties leave that little deal clear on what they've just agreed to.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and I think it's that ability to have the communication I know we talk about. Communication is king it all, queen, it so is. Because if we're just making assumptions around that, then that's when the you know, the angst sets in, because there's assumptions being made all over the place. Well, I thought you meant that. Well, I thought you meant that and then, well, you didn't tell me. Well, you never asked me, and you can just hear the conversation playing out, and it's that when the niggly bits come into it.
Speaker 2:So I think, if you're going to identify that you've got tasks on your list to do and you're having another one put onto it, then being able to adjust and flex around. So what is my priority, you know, what is this really urgent? Is it important? Is it both? What do I need to maybe pause or let go of? What? Might I need to have another conversation with somebody else about this, because this has become the priority.
Speaker 2:So, again, it's being able to reflect and adjust. I think, depending on what you've got on your plate and I've seen quite a few people who have up to that, you know where's before they might have reflected and reviewed, maybe on every couple of days they're doing. Every single day. They're doing in the morning and they're doing it last thing at night, so that all the time they're on top of their workload rather than it being on top of them, which gives you a good sense of control and flexibility and the capability to then say no if you need to, rather than just leave it's chance so you can course, correct throughout the week.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah, absolutely. So you can make an adjustment and just and then reset expectations with people who may have been expecting this massive project. But then it's having the conversation with whoever was waiting for something. That's now putting put on the back burner. It's still as important for them. It may not be as urgent, but the communication allows you to renegotiate and I know we're talking about that on our next pod but the ability to rethink it and work out a better way of moving it forward or readjusting the timeframes around it as well, so that you're not making assumptions for the other person, they're not making them from you, you're not.
Speaker 2:You haven't got crystal ball so you can't tell them what they might be thinking. So you've got to pick up the phone or have that conversation with them. Please don't do it on direct messenger, on teens, because it alludes the the meaning behind it. If you, especially if you, just write, I'm not going to be able to do that for you on by Thursday, that's it, and they're coming back, well, why not? Because? So pick up the phone, talk to someone, because then they're here, your intonation, they hear what's going on for you, they have more time to recognize, maybe, what pressure you are on, rather than just send it as a direct message on teams or zoom or whatever platform you're using, because that gets lost in translation.
Speaker 1:Love it. So in a moment, we are going to have a look at the who might you want to manage expectations with and how you might have that conversation. So, just to wrap up this bit, we've been looking at the art of prioritizing and manage expectations, even more important than it ever has been before, because, in the advent of hybrid working, lean teams, you might be feeling people might be feeling more pressure than ever before in terms of holding it all together. So what does that mean in terms of ensuring that you don't bust out in that moment and you're able to, on all the things that you want to do with the energy that you need? We've been looking at communication is everything to be able to really be clear on expectations. Even now, we talk about time and articulate it rather than airy fairy words. Being specific with time, it's of interest steps, isn't it that we've noted as a team when we work with globally based teams? Yes, much more precise about that whole.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, 100% because one person's lunchtime might be another person's bedtime, so they're very clear on 1300 GMT and it actually creates a much more flowing set of workflow because they have to be really clear and transparent about times because they're operating in different time zones. So that's an interesting discipline that we can all take, even if you're working kind of nationally. And just the final bit to add in around. So the urgent important you talked about, about when are the first things that need to happen, etc. Is, conversely, watching your language when you suggest a timeframe to someone else. So, rather than a fixed language, I'll definitely get it to you by 5pm Friday If actually that's wishful thinking rather than realistic thinking, because there's a whole other host of things practicing in that moment using flexible language. So we aim to get it by Friday. If we get this info by Thursday, I can get it to you on Friday. So just being a bit more aware of, rather than over promising, I guess you're being realistic in terms of the timeframe around it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and that two way conversation around it, which is why it's so important not just to send an email or do it on messenger actually have the actual conversation with somebody about it. Even if it's voice note, it has a different energy to it because you can pick up the nuances in either that person's tone and your response. You're more considered, I think, in your response rather than just fire off an email, especially if you've got different communication styles.
Speaker 1:Because you're aware of the person that's behind that task, not the fact that it's just a task that hasn't been done.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:There's a bit more empathy. Let's have a look at some top tips for who and how we might prioritise and manage expectations. So, Debs, I know you like a cat. I do like a cat.
Speaker 2:Just a few. Just a few. Dogs are lovely too, but I'll put that out there Lovely.
Speaker 1:So I thought it might make you smile if I reminded us of a bit of kit that we all put together as a team for client of ours that was looking at who do you need to get your claws into C-L-A-W-S, which is, if you have an exponentially growing workload and with that is a whole host of people that you need to keep up to speed with, then the first thing that can help prioritise and manage expectations is who do I need to do that with? So claws? The C stands for consult, so who do I need to involve and run really closely with? What might that mean in terms of giving them a heads up on this piece of work or how the critical path is going? Lead is the L. So who is actually the lead on this? Am I the lead? Is it someone else? Is it clear?
Speaker 1:Because lack of clarity can sometimes create more work than actually is what required Awareness. So who needs to be updated and when? That's the A, so who needs a little heads up? The written is what info needs to be shared and to whom, because if you're spending hours putting together beautifully written emails that no one's actually reading anyway, then is there a different way to do it, and then the S stands for spoken with. So who might appreciate a little side conversation? By the way, just to let you know I'm involved on this meeting here. I thought I'd give you a heads up and that ability to very quickly think about not only what is on my to-do list but who needs to be on my keep contact with list, because a little heads up at 10 past 10 on a Monday could save a whole host of work that potentially could bunch up by the time you get to the end of that week, particularly if you're in a role where you are reliant on lots of links in the chain getting stuff done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love claws. Get your claws into someone. As we said, it's like herding cats sometimes, and I was just talking to someone who we're going to be doing a team day with next week, I think, or the week after, and what this is, one of the things we're going to be sharing with them is that ability to set that, because they're all going off doing their own thing and when they come back together it's just causing mayhem to put the cat among the pigeons. Excuse the pun law, but it literally is put the cat among the pigeons because they haven't got that. Who bit? Who do I need to involve in that? How do I have that conversation with somebody who is the lead on this project topic? So, yeah, that'd be interesting to see how that plays out. They loved the thought of this and we're going to actually put it to practical use on a project they're working on, which has just gone a little bit wayward, shall we say, because some of these things haven't been clear, haven't been having clarity around them.
Speaker 1:Love it. I've got another one for you, Deb.
Speaker 2:Oh, go on. I love one. Go on. What's the other?
Speaker 1:one. So to keep it all kind of as calm and as productive as possible, we sort of likened it to managing the relationships with the stampede of needs that is happening. So I guess this is good old fashioned project management. But we came up with a stroke list. So, amongst all of those kind of people and tasks that we may be balancing, just been really clear and just think how much time and stress could have been saved if every piece of your work that you found yourself doing had had some clear setup at the start. And it could be you just setting your own head up before you're about to bark on something. But what this does is it just gives you a little bit of a stop, look and listen. So stroke stands for scope, task responsibilities, outcomes, keeping in touch expectations.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:So the scope what are we actually doing and what aren't we doing? What's in, what's out of scope? The task what is the purpose and what are the goals? And let's get that lined up. Is this cost saving? Is this time saving? What actually are the goals? So we're all pulling in the right direction.
Speaker 1:Responsibilities so who out of us is doing what and when what comes? How is success going to be measured? Keeping in touch so how do we keep that flow of communication I'm via what channel? And expectations? Is everyone's view of success the same? And it can enable you to make much more ruthless decisions about do I need to be present at every single one of these meetings? Is that actually is presenteism how my success is going to be managed? Or is it the fact that I was able to have a high energy team meeting bringing it all together? That might not have been on the plan, but it was kind of seen as necessary. So stroke, just keeps everyone around you as happy and as purring as possible, because everyone's clear on what we're doing and why we're doing it.
Speaker 2:And then you'll get results right, Because people are all aiming in the same direction. They all know what's going on. They're not going to make it up because we know, in the absence of any clarity, people make it up anyway. So it just means that less heartache, less overwhelm, less burnout, understanding where you might need to shift your priorities, say no to maybe other people as well. It just creates a better place to be really so, Debs, you mentioned saying no.
Speaker 1:I know we've got a whole episode that is dedicated to that really important skill, but we couldn't cover prioritizing and managing expectations without just some practical examples of how might you say no. So that sets us up for our episode next week, which is going to be about having a big conversation. But, Debs, if there are a couple of tips that you could share, that helps nice people who want to have a good, positive reputation around their colleagues, who really want to help, but there's just not enough time and they've got to say no. We've talked lots about clarity, We've talked lots about communication. So really, there might be a couple of things on your mind now you want to try out, but for someone who particularly knows they need to start getting more comfortable with saying no to those, can I just ask requests, for example? What might be some things we can end on? Some useful top tips?
Speaker 2:Yes. So the one for always me is, first of all, just express the appreciation that you've actually been given the opportunity, maybe to work on this task, Because if you can express some gratitude for that, so things are. Oh my God. Thank you for considering me for this task. I appreciate the opportunity to contribute. It then sets the right tone for that conversation to say no and if you need to provide a reason as to an honest explanation as to why you're unable to take that task on, keep it concise and focus on facts rather than the emotions that might sit behind that and assert your limitations.
Speaker 2:I think this is the other one to be able to be clear on your current workload, your current commitments, anything else that might be preventing you from being able to accept that task. So, being firm but polite we're not talking about being aggressive or passive, aggressive or passive, we're just using about assertiveness and offer up some other solutions. I think that's always where, if possible, if you can't work on that task yourself, there may be an alternative solution to it. So you might want to suggest maybe another colleague picks it up because they've got capacity, if you know that, and then that being, I suppose, respectful of the other person is super important, Not over apologizing, not over explaining yourself, but it's that you know, making sure that you are sticking to your message around it, but also using the I.
Speaker 2:You know I statements mean you're taking ownership for your decision and your feeling. Same thing, you know I'm currently at full capacity, rather than you're giving me too much work to do. That just shifts the whole balance of the conversation. You know, reassuring, expressing willingness to help in the future or renegotiating when that might happen, but also being able to conclude it on a positive note. You know, please feel free to reach out to me in the future if there's something similar. Thank you again for your understanding. Thank you, oh my God, that's the magic two words that can leave that conversation in a good space, even though you said no.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it, Deb. So how that might all then put together is thank you for considering me for this cat club that you want me to run. I really appreciate the opportunity to contribute. The challenge is this month is I'm already super stacked, so it's going to be a challenge for me to give it the dedication I want to, because I know these cats are really important. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Maybe there's a way we could look at doing something in the following month.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and thank you for understanding.
Speaker 1:Thank you for understanding.
Speaker 2:Thank you for understanding, because not many people can come back from a thank you for understanding. Oh, that's such a good one, deb. Yes, where do you go with that? Okay, no worries, oh, that is such a good one.
Speaker 1:So then, it's ending that with thank you for understanding and yeah, oh, that is that, that is a gem, that is a gem and it works beautifully, and then I love that.
Speaker 2:Hold your silence. That's the other thing. Hold the silence because you want the other person to feel it, not you, because you're the one that said no. So thank you for your understanding. I appreciate your understanding around this matter. Whatever, hold the pause and let the other person feel it.
Speaker 1:When you said pause, I was thinking a little pause Little pause, Little pause. Hold the pause Right. I think this links nicely to a share the secret.
Speaker 2:Yes, go on. Then. What is your share the secret?
Speaker 1:So I think my share. The secret would be we all know someone, in fact, that maybe you and you want to listen to this again, but we all know someone for whom is just busting under the seams at the moment. Get them to listen to this Number one. They are not alone.
Speaker 2:No, definitely not.
Speaker 1:It is such a hot topic, that there is loads of stuff that you know is out there and hopefully we've been able to give, pull out a couple of things that are genuinely useful, but to do it in a natural way rather than suddenly starting to feel authentic. Get someone to listen to this, either a friend or a colleague, and this could be all areas of life. This isn't just a work where you're on a payroll. This is life's work as well in terms of expectations around working with family members, friendship circles, etc.
Speaker 1:Etc. And I think just just even that final bit, Debs, where thank you for your consideration and then hold the pause.
Speaker 2:Hold the pause. Yeah, cats arrived on cue as well. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Then I think that could be a real game changer for some people. So that would be my share of the secret Someone that you know who struggles with this type of stuff. They're not alone. It all comes from a good place, but it's how to make sure you're able to work sustainably, because if you're busy now, I don't know anyone that is looking to say to their teams chill out and take a back seat for the year ahead.
Speaker 2:I don't think so either.
Speaker 1:We've got to work out ways to work it well.
Speaker 2:We have Debs. What would your call to?
Speaker 1:action be.
Speaker 2:So my call to action would be to know your boundaries, I think, before you communicate them to others or say no, or you understand what they are, first of all be clear about what they are, reflect on what you need, what your limitations are and your priorities, and then have that conversation once you've really understood what your boundaries are first. So do a bit of self-reflection. Thank you for your contribution.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, lord. Cold to pause, cold to pause, cold to pause, cold to pause. So listen, this episode was all about magic, expectations, prioritising. There might be some people listening in now thinking do you know what I've got to have a proper conversation? It can't be done just by chipping away at little mini conversations. I need to have the big one, which is why we are going to look at next episode, which is all about how do we renegotiate a workload. So what does that mean in terms of preparing for a conversation? What that means, then, for being able to do it in a win-win way, so you're not seeing as the problem child, you're just able to talk about the problems in a solution-focused way. All of that stuff we're going to be looking at. How do you actually do that? So I'm really looking forward to that one. Daphne.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. It'd be a game changer. Maybe I'll need to take some lessons from this one as well.
Speaker 1:Wow, I think all trainers are attracted to the content that they wish their dad when they were.
Speaker 2:I know I think you're right actually.
Speaker 1:It's of no coincidence that the last three podcast focuses have been all about time management and managing expectations.
Speaker 2:We're practicing what we preach, though, Laura. Putting into practice? Yes, we are, Thank you.
Speaker 1:You're welcome.
Speaker 2:I love it. See you next week, Laura.
Speaker 1:Have a good week.
Speaker 2:Love you and you, love you, bye.