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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
176. Protecting Yourself and Others From Burnout
This third episode in our 5-part series on Managing a Continuous Workload addresses the alarmingly growing topic of burnout. Burnout is estimated to cost the UK £28.3 billion due to stress-related absence and is a growing problem impacting more people than ever before. We are privileged to be joined by Alexis Neighbour, who in her role as executive coach, now specialises in helping people resolve a sense of overwhelm, take back control of their lives and prevent the risk of burnout. She clearly explains the difference between stress, overwhelm and burnout and shares practical tips for noticing and catching it before it takes hold and creates permanent damage to our mental and physical health.
Alexis shares her first-hand experience of feeling like she was just 'existing' and the steps she took to shift things on to a better path. A good listen for anyone who is feeling a bit snappier or less joyful than usual; a life-changing listen for those who know something is not quite right, but cant quite put their finger on it yet - whether for themselves or someone in their team.
You can contact Alexis by email alexis@hygeiacoaching.com or via LinkedIn
Hot topic for you? Take a deeper dive in our related episodes:
Ep, 169 Knowing Your Personal Saboteurs
Ep.103 Redefining What Success Means For You Now
Ep. 139 Inner Wellness From an NLP Perspective with Melanie Yea
Ep.157 Making a Mid-Life Career Shift
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of phenomenal training.
Speaker 2:Debs, Laura you alright, yeah how are you doing? I'm alright. Thank you Even better for having spoken to Lex this week.
Speaker 1:I am so looking forward to hearing it. No one tells it quite like Lex does, and this is a real highlight of our five-part series looking at managing continuing workload. It's the topic of its time, isn't it? Yes, I mean, how many people do we speak to, whether it's a coaching environment or a workshop environment, and those feelings of overwhelm and just too much to do, not enough time, minimal resource it's a common theme at the moment, which is why we thought we had to look at. Actually it can be a real serious consequences as a result of not dealing with things. So where we've looked at how might you have a conversation in the moment to have a fair exchange of tasks, if that's what's required to put boundary in at the moment. The last episode was looking at if you needed a bit of a bigger chat about renegotiating workload, and this one is a real reminder really of what happens if we don't address it, if we just let things build. So I'm really looking forward to this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listening, I loved it and I know you have loved it as well. So let's take a listen to what Lex has to say. You can see everyone that I am joined by a guest this week. Part of our series that we're looking at is about overwhelm and burnout, and we mentioned that we were going to have a guest and we have, so welcome to the amazing Alexis neighbor, who I always call Lex. So we're falling to that. But what we're going to be talking about today is what is burnout and how can we prevent it in ourselves, but also maybe recognizing it and what we can do to support others as well. So, lex, I'm absolutely delighted that you're going to join us on this, because this is a topic so close to your heart, right, that you've been talking about this for years. It's not just something new. So just give our listeners a bit of an overview of who are you and what do you do. Wow, what an intro.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 3:I'm Alexis, aka Lex to my close friends, and my background is coaching, learning and development.
Speaker 3:So I've been working in the world of L&D for 25 years nearly now that's, given my age away, isn't it and I kind of came across coaching in the very early days of when John Whitmore was the person to read about and read his book Coaching Performance, which is obviously for those of you who don't know, john Whitmore wrote the Grow Model and that's when I first kind of became aware of coaching and the impact that it could have.
Speaker 3:And through my different journeys of running my own businesses and being involved in the franchising world, I've moved much more into executive coaching recently and transformational coaching, which the difference between what I consider transactional coaching, which is very much kind of a goal let's hit the goal versus transformational coaching, which is let's help people make sustainable long term changes in their lives and remove the barriers so that those changes stick. So that's me. I've recently come back into the coaching arena after having sold my franchise in September last year, and I'm very passionate about burnout. I've been talking about it from when we worked together many years ago and a whole piece around mental health, but also have experienced burnout myself.
Speaker 3:So I kind of come from a place of first hand experience.
Speaker 2:And sometimes that can be super helpful because you can maybe recognise it quicker in others than they recognise it in themselves, right? So I was looking at some stats, lex around this and some of the stats that were around, like currently there's 13.7 million days lost to work related stress or overload, with the cost of 28.3 billion a year and that's just UK stats, that isn't the world stats, which is massive. And then recent mental health foundation and Ugov research is stating that 74% of people feel overwhelmed and or stressed. So what is this all about, lex? From your experience, do you see that?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's really. I just want to pick up on a couple of things, because you've used the word overwhelm and burnout in the same sentence, and I think it's really important to differentiate between the two, because there is a difference. So overwhelm is where everything just seems a bit too much. Everything gets on top of you, and it's those days where you come home from work or you come out of a meeting and you're just a bit like, like it all just feels a bit heavy. That's the best way to describe so that's overwhelm. Now, if you don't deal with that overwhelm and you allow that overwhelm to build and build, and build and build, then it can turn into burnout. Burnout is a much more serious condition that affects you physically, mentally, emotionally. It's the result of a prolonged stress.
Speaker 3:So it's really important to differentiate between the two, and so my passion is around helping people who are overwhelmed who maybe aren't living the best life that they want to live, to stop them reaching that burnout stage because they've allowed it to go on for too long.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's a super important catch and, as you said, the stats are putting those two together. You know, stress, overwhelm, burnout, they all sit. But, as you quite rightly said, they all mean different things to different people and, like you, having been there before and knowing it, they are very different things depending on what's going on, because some you can manage and others you just need to do something different. So, when we're talking about overwhelm and that sense of heavy, what sort of shows up for people?
Speaker 3:I think the first thing that you'll probably notice is behavioral changes. So it might be someone that you would just you know they're a bit more snappy than normal. Yes, they're less tolerant, yeah, or maybe they are not as sociable as they normally would. You know, maybe they're normally the life and soul of the party, or they'll be the, you know, the first ones to want to go out for you know a team lunch, and that you know you find they're making excuses and then wanting to come. So it's those things that are behavioral changes. If somebody never wants to go out for a team lunch, then that's not necessarily a sign. So it's always for me noticing behavioral changes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's also can often show up physically with overwhelm. Somebody who is very tired all the time, maybe is running late, often turns up late. Where that's a change. They don't normally you might notice they come into work or they show up for you know if it's a friend who might show up looking like they haven't looked after themselves. Maybe they've not washed their hair, maybe they've got a stain on their top. You know things that you would normally know that person wouldn't do.
Speaker 3:So it's about that self-care piece and often it will also show physically. So one of the two biggest illnesses that will be linked to this is psoriasis or any skin condition, because your skin is your large organ, so it's the organ that's probably going to be the most affected. Or also stomach problems, because your stomach is very responsive to stress. So if you start noticing those kinds of things as well, if somebody has psoriasis or somebody has eczema and they're having their experience in overwhelm that sort of thing that I might start asking questions or I might be curious about I'm wondering whether there's a link there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's going on for them? And I know you mentioned yeah, because some people might come and say they've got headaches or they're worrying, especially at night time. There are other things that sort of people present with and again a lot of people might say, well, that's just stress. Is it just stress, or is it overwhelm, or is it burnout? It's like, how do people start to differentiate from some of these things?
Speaker 3:That's a great question. It's stress if you can turn it off, oh, that's nice. Yeah, so if it's something where you've had a sleepless night as we all do because something's worrying you, you're worried about something, and then the next day you know what I'm going to deal with that, and then the next night you have a great night's sleep. Or even if it's a stress that may be lost for a couple of weeks or a few weeks, you can control it and switch it off. Where it starts becoming problematic is it infiltrates other areas of your life and you find it really difficult to switch it off. It becomes persistent, it becomes an ever present thought for you that is ruminating and you can't seem to shift it. That's when it just, it turns from stress to reaching the road of burnout, oh, when you notice a change in behavior.
Speaker 3:So you know, I know we'll talk about my story, but alcohol was something that featured a lot for me. I noticed that I was drinking a lot more alcohol and I was using that as a way of dealing with things. So where the shift is, it goes from something that's normal and when I say normal, it's normal for people to experience pressure in life and some stress in life. Yes, if you're a working environment, you might be under pressure for a deadline, or you might have a project you're working on, or you know. Whatever you know, we all like to achieve and achieve well, so it's very usual for people to feel a level of stress, and actually, in some respects, stress can be good, because it produces adrenaline and it motivates you to do things. Otherwise we'd all be horizontal. So stress doesn't always have to be a bad thing. It's when it stops you from living the life that you want to live, or it stops you from doing the things that you want to do, that it becomes a problem?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and we've seen that. I know, and you would have seen that in your coaching space. But you mentioned about you know your own experience of you, know what that felt like and what you did and how you came out the other end of it. So are you happy to share part of the story as to what was it? How did you even know it was getting to that point of oh my God, burnout, overwhelm, stress, all of those things? How did you you know what happened?
Speaker 3:Lex, Honestly, I don't know if I did know, and that's the interesting thing is, it took me a while to know, and that's coming from someone who knows this content. Yes, and I think what happens is when you're successful and you know a business owner which I was and you've got a lot of people relying on you and you have to, you just have to show up every day. It's not a choice for you to stay in bed. You keep going, you keep going, you keep going and you know inside that something's not right, but you don't know quite how bad it is. And I think for me I was running a care business through pandemic that was really tough.
Speaker 3:It was you know very difficult being on the front line running a care business when with all of the regulations and trying to figure out what we were doing about PPE anywhere. I won't go into it all, but you know it was very stressful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 3:And I think then, coming out of that, that had taken a big toll on me and I noticed that I was drinking a lot more alcohol than I was previously. But it was becoming the point where I felt like it was. It was a habit really. I'd get home at night five o'clock, open a bottle of wine, drink a bottle of wine, probably wouldn't want dinner, would maybe have a handful of peanuts and it got to a point where I started worrying about myself and these thoughts were ruminating at night often.
Speaker 3:So I'd often wake up at three or four o'clock in the morning wondering Is this normal? Have I got a problem? Am I gonna die? You know some really quite dark thoughts.
Speaker 3:They were coming in and then I would always promise myself I'm not gonna drink tomorrow. And then I would and I started worrying am I an alcoholic, you know? Can I control this? You know, these are kind of things. And then I was thinking, no, I know I'm not, but something's not right here. And then I was very tearful, and I think Deb's. To be honest, I just lost the joy in life a little bit like I did. I'll I make excuses why I didn't want to go out. I wasn't like buying nice clothes or looking after myself. I just I just kind of was existing. That's the best way. Yeah, okay, and most people on the outside who didn't know me very well never have known, but I just kind of felt like I was going through the motions and I was existing. And then, in October 2022, I decided to take control, after a lot of Googling and research, and I did a course basically for six weeks.
Speaker 3:Okay, drinking and and it was the moment they really kind of shifted for me because, first of all, it proved to me that I could do it, which was really important yeah, because I needed to know that but also it just it removed that thing that I was using as a crutch and made me really look at what's going on in my life. That was not making me happy and that was the thing is often we, you know, it doesn't matter whether it's alcohol, whether it's cigarettes, whether it's shopping, whether it's, you know, whatever in my eating, in everyone.
Speaker 3:Yeah people can use substances of all kinds to mask what's going on, and then when you get a lack Of sleep as a result of that, it all kind of builds in, and so, anyhow, after that, I stopped drink. I ended up not drinking for seven months and it was never that I never wanted a drink again. I just knew that I needed to find myself again. Yeah, and that's when I Started really thinking about what I want to do in my life, and that's when I decided that I was gonna go back to coaching and I decided to enroll myself on a diploma and Took me a year to do that and really kind of just just find out what I loved doing again. And that was a big journey that I went on then. And the decision for me and my husband to sell the franchise that we owned, which went through last September.
Speaker 2:And here I am now and that's huge, life-changing things that you've done and the fact that you'd Recognized it eventually within yourself and that people did not know what was going on for you unless they knew you super, super well. Right, and lots of people find themselves in that if they're with team members or they are with other people, they may not know what's going on. So how can people look out for others, if you like, and recognize some of the maybe the warning signs in Inverted commerce, and whether they pay attention to them or not? Right is is another matter. But how can people pick up on maybe that person Isn't there in a verse, commas, normal self, what can they look out for? I mean the first thing is ask.
Speaker 3:When I look back now, I'm not sure how many people actually asked me if I was okay.
Speaker 2:Really okay, not just. Oh, how are you?
Speaker 3:Are you okay, how's it been running this business during the pandemic? How you feeling? You must be really tired. What's going on for you? No, no one really stepped into that space to ask. So I think the first thing is ask. Now, obviously, there's going to be situations where you're gonna ask and people are gonna go yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm all right, fine, yeah. That most people say yeah. I think it's really important whether you're an employer, whether you're a teammate, you know ever that you create a safe space for people to feel that they a Non-judgmental space, that people feel that they can actually really say what's going on for them, and then they're not going to be judged for it or labeled for it. And I think it's about being emotionally intelligent and tuning in to what normal looks like. So I would say to a potential leader of business now, or a business owner Look at what normal is for for one of your staff members or your employees or whoever, and then benchmark that as you're going through time.
Speaker 3:So when you notice, like now, if somebody is a bit off with me or snappy, that I know quite well, I'll step into that conversation straight away and it will go something along the lines of I Notice that when I, when I asked you that question, your response was quite, quite strong Is there something going on? Yeah, have I said something that's triggered you? So I think what happens is people notice things. If they're really honest with themselves, they do notice it, but they just discount it and they say maybe she's just having an off day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and don't explore it.
Speaker 3:I would encourage you, ask so you don't see me, or say, and even you don't see me yourself, are you okay?
Speaker 2:Your energy seems a bit low, yeah and it's a simple thing to ask, isn't it?
Speaker 3:or say yeah, you just seem a bit like I know that sometimes I'll speak to you and I'll say to you Debs, you look tired, you're alright you know and I think it's about being able to have those conversations and for somebody to feel like it's okay From say you know what actually, no, I'm not not had a great day today.
Speaker 2:Yeah okay.
Speaker 3:Do you want to talk about it? No, I don't, but thanks for asking and I think then what you do is you build that trust with people, and what you're not trying to do is be someone's counselor or therapist. All you're doing is coming from a place of empathy and understanding that we're all human beings. We're all trying to do the best that we can do, but sometimes it's it's hard. Yeah, it is. So I would say ask and notice, and if you don't know what people's triggers are, I would say that maybe even ask, that say you know if things were getting a bit too much for you, what do you think I might see happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's a good question to ask, right? Yeah, because then they'll tell you, and maybe some people haven't thought about it either. They might not have thought about it, as you said earlier. You know you. You probably didn't recognize you were heading down that way Until you sort of I suppose it came into your conscious mind. They thought this is a bit, this is a bit odd, this isn't normal, this isn't what. I'm not feeling the joy, and I think that's the thing, isn't it?
Speaker 3:We don't always know that we're in it, but the more self aware we are or we're looking after ourselves and know what what good looks like, but also recognize quicker what maybe not so good looks like as well, and even asking yourself right, Exactly, and I read a really good quote in a book a couple of weeks ago, which is our role as coaches is to shine a light on things that people can't see for themselves, and I think that that's as Europe, as a professional coach, but actually anyone can do that.
Speaker 3:Anyone can do, like I've noticed this about you and what do you think about that? Or I've noticed you look more tired, or I've noticed you've been late a few times recently. That's really unlike you. Is everything okay? Doing in a gentle way Makes me feel like it's okay. So if you say hot bloody, you're late again today, well, that's the time this week you've been late and obviously you're not creating the environment for someone to say actually I'm not in a good place.
Speaker 3:So it's very much about how you step into that place, and that's where the emotional awareness piece comes in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, massively. And I suppose, going back to what you said was you felt like you were just existing when you shared your. You know what was going on for you at the time. So you appreciate you doing that, lex, because I'm sure people can resonate with what you said as well and that sense of just existing when you started to work on on yourself and start to put things in place for you to bring the joy back in your life. What was your biggest lesson?
Speaker 3:Well, I just shared with you earlier, before we started recording, that one of my favorite Sayings at the moment is no is a complete sentence. I love that, yeah, and so I started pushing back on things that don't make me happy. Nice, had to figure out what makes me happy first, but now I have to get that out. I'm comfortable too, and I think that the biggest thing for me was Realizing that I was trying to be all things to all people. Right that I was trying to be wife, mother, daughter, sister, friend, cousin, coach, mentor, you know, business owner, boss, everything, and I also do a lot of volunteering.
Speaker 3:Well, I was just trying to be everybody and so and so I would be very hard on myself If I wasn't doing all of those roles, playing all of those roles really well. So I think that it's enabled me to figure out what am I prepared to let go of, what would it mean if I wasn't perfect at things, and what does it mean if I say no? And I think that's the biggest lesson that I've given myself permission now, but if I don't want to do something or I want to say no, then that's okay.
Speaker 2:I Then that's okay. Yeah, and I completely concur with what you're saying. But a lot of people may be fearful of saying that or saying no. I'm recognizing that they're worth and value. So, in your experience, how do you help somebody else sort of Find out what their value is and that they are able to say no and look out for themselves?
Speaker 3:Well, if they need figuring out, I'd say they need to find a coach that will help.
Speaker 1:Really hard to figure out by yourself and I was very fortunate.
Speaker 3:I had a lot of coaching to help me get to that place. I think that you need to go away and think about what. What is the thing that makes you get up in the morning? That is the most important thing that if the thing that if you didn't do or you didn't behave in a certain way when you put your head on the pillow at night, you would feel uncomfortable with it. It's that uncomfortable feeling. I'm not happy with the way I handled that situation or I behaved in that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's about finding the things that really matter, finding the things that are non-negotiables, I guess, and holding true on those things, and it shouldn't be too many things. You are, yes, I've got about three core values, and those is what I might shining guiding lies, and those are the things that are my non-negotiables. Don't have to have a whole massive list. And then, if you've got those things that are your absolute non-negotiables, that anything else, you should be able to ask yourself does this match my values? Is this going to take me where I really want to be? And if the answers no, then you should question yourself Okay, why am I doing it then? And how can I then say no? In a way. This is the key depths. How do I say no to somebody in a way that keeps my relationship intact with them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because some people don't know how to do that exactly. So what would you recommend for people if they are having to put there or Reproratize themselves, put boundaries in, what would you suggest they do or how do they approach it?
Speaker 3:Well, just because I say no is a complete sentence, doesn't mean I just say no and nothing else. I just say no and nothing else.
Speaker 2:No, you don't, can you imagine.
Speaker 3:No, it's really important you take me on the journey with you and you explain why you're saying no. So if somebody who does, I'm going to say no to that and let me help you understand why. Or I'm going to struggle with that. So if say, for example, and someone's asked me to do a piece of work or a project and actually You're going to struggle to complete that, or it's something you don't want to do, you might say I could do this, but if I did that then I'd have to let go of something else. So which one's more important? Or, yeah, you know what that sounds really exciting project, and thank you so much for thinking of me on this occasion. I'm going to say that I'd rather not do that piece of work or I'd rather focus on this piece of work. I think my skills are more matched here.
Speaker 3:So it's about taking people on the journey and helping them understand why you're saying no and then also showing that appreciation. And that's where I it links back to that trust piece as well. If you've built that trust with somebody and that safe space, you should be able to have those conversations without feeling like everything's going to blow up, because everybody's entitled To say how they feel it's about the way you deliver it, and if somebody then responds negatively to that, then my response would be Really interested to see that you're not happy with my response. Can we talk about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's going on. And then you go back into the curious mindset to explore it, to understand it right, because the more you understand, the better it is and then the more you can put things in place to Protect yourself but also fix it, if you like in inverted commas for that period of time. So let's tell me, how do you maintain that level of awareness and how do you recognize the triggers that you're potentially Going back down that slope that some people call it into Burnout, overwhelm? How do you recognize the triggers now?
Speaker 3:For me personally. I do a lot of journaling and that's really important for me, and the way I do it is If I notice I'm uncomfortable with something, if I notice there's something that just doesn't feel right, then I will sit and think something's not right here, I'm gonna write. I'm gonna write it down, because there'll always be something underneath it. If you're feeling it's kind of gone against your values or something, or you're not comfortable with an interaction, so I write it off, stuff down. I'm a massive supporter of Mindful nursing meditation. Yeah, so you know, often if I'm going into an important meeting, I'll do a five-minute meditation before I go in, just allowing myself space and time. It's looking after yourself. Debs, I eat well. Yeah, I mean since October last year I've actually been following the Zoe app and I've really changed the way I've eaten and I haven't been ill once since then. Oh, really.
Speaker 3:So I think a lot of it is about eating well, moving, like all the things that you know, but it actually really does make it to eating well, moving more. I drink less, I give myself time, I don't do things that don't make me happy, I get out in fresh air not today because it's pouring with rain, yeah, you know. So those kinds of things and also I really try and connect with people and I think one of the things that I've found Is I'm much more open now with people about how I'm feeling, right, okay, and that doesn't mean I spill everything you know, and if you tell me you're going to get an hour of me talking about you know and my life, but if somebody says to me now how are you all, has that week been and I've not had a good day, then I'll say and I think I tried to hide it quite a lot before yeah, so I think that honesty piece and I find that that that means that other people are honest back with me as well, because I've created that space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you're not masking it. Yeah, yeah, and I think that's certainly for me, watching people that sort of is the first sign, I think, when you notice that something isn't quite right. They're not themselves and they do mask it. And if you're intuitive and you can pick up on their energy, you just know that they're not right. And, as you said, stepping into that space with a question Coming from a real good intention can really help somebody know that you care about them, and that's sometimes all some people need to know. Isn't it right that they do? You just care?
Speaker 3:No one might have asked somebody that question for like a month. Yeah, I might say, no one's ever asked me that before?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then do you think, oh, okay, and then I always think it's that, what were people then giving off? Because if you're astute enough, as you said, having that level of emotional intelligence to recognize when someone isn't quite right, and then asking them, it's like, oh, my goodness, you know, they may, as you said, may not even have been aware of it. And I know, certainly in our world of coaching, are we tuned in more to people and how they're being feeling, what sits underneath it? Possibly because there's an, as I said, an intuitive sense that something's not right, but it's knowing how to step in. But not all of us are trained coaches, right? So for those of us not, who are trained coaches that might be listening to this, what are some of the the things they could do to help others as well as themselves? What would you say?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's a really good point because you know, yeah, it's, it's easy for me to sit and say because I, you know, I know how I would handle it. But I think that that offering assistance, yeah, I think that kind of having a supportive environment, encouraging listening to people sometimes people just want to download, yeah, and that's okay as well. So just offering a listening air I think one of the most important things, though. Deb says don't put pressure on people to do something. I've.
Speaker 3:Someone doesn't want to talk about it. Or someone just says you know what, actually I'm not that great, but I don't want to talk about it. That's fine as well. Yeah, so there's no pressure. You're not trying to push people to tell you their life story or reveal secrets. That's not what it's about. It's really about forming that kind of space where you're saying I care about you and I want to help you and I want you to know that when you're ready and you want to, you can talk to me. So it's that, and you don't have to be a trained coach, a therapist or anything to just show somebody that you care and you're going to listen to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the fact that you can tune in your gut feel is going to tell you right. And lots of people ignore their gut feel and just say, oh, they're probably just having an off day. But that should be enough to get you to ask a question, at least, shouldn't it? And I'm a big believer in if you feel it, say it, you know, because you never know what you might come back at you.
Speaker 3:And listen. If the stats that you said at the top of the call, you know, are correct which I'm sure they are, and over 70% of people are experienced these feelings they're lost in their own feelings as well. So you know they might be ignoring someone else's but they're ignoring their own. So you've then got this kind of layering effect going on where you know I'm sure they're just having an off day, but you know what? I'm also not feeling great, I'm not going to push it. It's kind of that Pandora's book scenario where you know I don't want to have that conversation. This does that mean that I'm then going to have to talk about what's going on for me? So I think if the communities that we all operate in, if we could all be talking more and creating that space where everybody feels that they can, then hopefully we can start making a difference with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it starts, as you said, with care, talking and noticing, isn't it really? Which you go from there. So, lex, moving forward. Then, for you, what is it that you're working on that's going to enable you to continue to sustain your resilience and, as I said, not slip down at any point? What are you doing over you know, to maintain that in your, in your whole life? So you're keeping on that. I want to say it's not an even kill, that's not the word I'm looking for, but you're operating from a place of joy, a compassion, existence. You're doing all those things that you know help you. How are you going to maintain that?
Speaker 3:I know it sounds really simplistic, but it comes back to just looking after myself and putting myself first.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I'm giving myself permission to do the things that I want to do.
Speaker 3:You know, for example, I might want to spend a whole day on a Saturday watching Netflix, and that's okay, whereas before I think I would have done it but I would have felt guilty about it. So I'm trying to remove some of the guilt and I'm just finding things that I really enjoy doing and letting go of the things that I was doing for the sake of it. Nice, and you know that includes you know, all the things we talked about exercise, you know eating well, etc. And with regards to work, working with people that I really enjoy working with, working on projects that I feel really passionate about, because I think that then, that work is such a massive part of your life and if I'm working on things that I'm passionate about, then that's going to spill over as well. So I'm really trying to focus on doing work that feeds my soul, that matches my values, and if I feel that it's pushing against that, then I'm in a very fortunate position that I'm running my own business and I can choose what, but I've still got bills to pay, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I still got a lift.
Speaker 3:So I find that I'm attracting like-minded people who want to work with me, who have got the same values as me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's about not compromising on that debt. You know, being really clear about what's important to me and not prepared to compromise on it, because I know what could happen if I allow myself to compromise on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, as you said, regardless of whether you're running your own business or not, you're still able to do that for yourself, right? If you've identified what brings you joy, what your purpose is, what your core values are, you can still do that for yourself, regardless of where you're at. It's just thinking about it from the perspective of giving myself permission to say yes, give myself permission to say no, and it's just that raising that awareness of self, which lots of people, as you say, have a guilt around it or I can't because, or I'm not sure if I can. And then you hear all of that language that comes out from people, which again adds to their stress, which potentially then can tip over as well. So it's such an important topic, isn't it, for us to keep talking about Lex.
Speaker 3:And the other thing as well that I just was. As you were talking, I was thinking about you and Law and some of the other wishfishers and secrets from the coach tribe and I think that's such a massive important piece for me is surround yourself with people who lift you up. Have a tribe, have a tribe of people who are? Your supporters, who you know that, even in your darkest times, are going to be there for you, and that, I think, is really important as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that, and I know you're part of our tribe as well, lex, so we could always come to you. So tell me, lex, how can people find you Well?
Speaker 3:they can find me on LinkedIn, probably primarily because I'm just in the middle of setting up my website. So on LinkedIn I'm a Lexis neighbor, spelled the UK way, not the American way. So with a you I Always have to say Lexis neighbor as in next door neighbor. I do have an email address which is Lexis at hygiacochingcom, which maybe you can put somewhere. Yeah, we will. The best thing really is to find me on LinkedIn because then you can just inbox me and have a look at my Background and learn a bit more about me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and from experience, friend, when you see, you know, I've known you for a long time now and everything you've said is like, yeah, you can reach out and you can spot it. I can reach out to you and spot it. It's that ability to connect with people on a level where you do care about them, to want to even know and to bother with them. But I love the fact that you know You're thinking around how you continue to look after yourself first In order to enable you to look after others, and I always remember you saying that on a workshop many years ago, when we were looking at mental health and well-being, that that was the number one takeaway if you do nothing else, then do that.
Speaker 3:Put your own mask on first before you put on your child. That's always remember. We always used to say that Yep, and that's the truth. If you're on the floor as a leader of a business or in any respect, then you're no good to anybody else. So you've got to look after yourself. You've got a duty to yourself, to your family, to your friends and to your colleagues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Well, I mean, we could talk about this topic forever. Right, let's definitely could, because I'm, yeah, we definitely could. So I have to have you back, because I think the other thing we probably explore with you is that how do we overcome that feeling of guilt, because that is right at the moment.
Speaker 3:That is huge and the other thing that we haven't even talked about is why burnouts increase so much in recent years. Because Everyone's talking about it. Why, suddenly, is everybody talking about it? What's happening? Yes and there's a whole piece around boundaries, around work, that I think we could probably explore together as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my god, we're definitely have you back and do a part two and three maybe of this one, because they are huge topics, so I will make sure people know how to reach out to you. But I just was a massive thank you. It's been really, really insightful, just that small time we've had with you, lex, to explore how, what, what can we do, and how we can maintain and look after our own mind health in order to be at our best and live Our lives with joy. So I want to say a massive thank you, lex, for your time, thank you for having me. So law gone then. What did you reckon? What did you?
Speaker 1:take away so many notes. I scribbled through that just even first off, debs, the empowering Realization of the difference between overwhelm and burnout. And if you can switch it off then it's stress. And actually a little bit of stress Means we're not sort of you know we can perform, but it's a what point? You need to catch it Before it takes root, takes hold and has a permanent, serious consequence. And that just I just thought that came out so clearly and articulately. And, as ever, what I adore about Lex's communication style, she gives you some real practical how-tos. So I know, for example, building on the personal saboteurs focus that we did a couple of episodes back, yeah now I know that I have a potential to slip into hyper achievement.
Speaker 1:So that relentless feeling of one more thing, one more thing. I now know that something to watch out for me if I'm feeling overwhelmed is Somehow this kind of weird desire to ask for more things to do pop out. So now I'm a bit more aware of that. I can just catch it Before it just becomes never-ending. And you know, I think that's just really useful from ways of working we all sort of understand. Actually, someone might say, well, I can do that, just to be able to gently in that moment say you know Well how busy is the rest of your week, as it is pretty busy, and then you can help each other have a bit more of a realistic overview. So I just took so much from that and yourself yeah, same as you.
Speaker 2:There was so much that she shared and I think, in particular, it was like moving it back into the world of work as well.
Speaker 2:So, from a ourself perspective, what can we do to avoid it or recognize the triggers?
Speaker 2:And I think it sort of links really nicely into what can we do as an organization. So if, as part of your team, you're noticing that somebody is got an unmanageable workload or they're not having unclear communication from you as their manager or their team leader, they feel like there's lack of manager support, then we do have a responsibility as leaders and managers of our teams to Enable them to have those conversations, and I think you know some of the solutions we can adopt, if you like. If somebody does come to you when says I have an unmanageable workload, it's not to just ignore them and let them get on with it, but it's actually to have a conversation with them, to discuss what the workload is, whether you may be able to help reduce it or find another way around it, and making sure that it is safe for your Team members to actually say that to you as the manager and leader, and I think that's super important and I think, as we always say it comes back to making sure Communications are key. So how can we make that happen in a way that Creates an environment that actually recognizes it but is there to support people as well?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, just so much to consider in the world of management, Isn't there? When you know it's, it manages a human too. Yep, so you might be. You know, thinking there you are sort of overwhelmed, and until you've Walked in someone's shoes for a certain amount of time, it's it's easy to make judgments about people, as certain people having easier and yeah that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I guess, as lex said, it's having the conversation. That is how these things can really improve, so that are just really inspired. My share the secret depths would be before we hear from your call to action is Get a friend to listen to this and create a little code between the two of you.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:So you can just fast-track rather than having to spend weeks or months kind of edging around it. Get your close set of colleagues, get them to listen to this first off. You're not alone. This is sadly. This is a growing you know, as you shared those stats. This is a growing phenomenon in our modern world of work and it was never meant to be like this. Devs, things were supposed to get easier and more smooth with all these amazing new technologies that we've got, but we are getting minced up in the middle, aren't we? At the moment?
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of work that's kind of going on and overwork. So get your closest colleagues to listen to this. Create a code of conduct, and it means you can just catch each other sooner if you start to see things looking not quite how that person normally is, before it takes hold and becomes something a bit more serious. So what's your call to action.
Speaker 2:So my call to action would be if you know you've got a bit of a crazy busy day coming up or you've got loads on your plate is to plan your day so you can create those peaceful moments, because you're the one that's in control of your time and what you can do with it.
Speaker 2:So when are you going to put in those little peaceful moments, those that will bring you some more joy in your day? So when am I actually going to sit and have a cup of tea and drink it, for instance, little things like that. When am I going to eat my lunch? I'm not going to sit in my keyboard and eat it, but going away and doing that to create that peaceful moment that sits within you, so you can breathe as well in the middle of that, so it doesn't feel like Everything is on top of you or you're feeling burdened by lots of things around it. And even playing music, I think, is super key. Have a song that brings, makes you happy and lifts you, just so you can, just for a moment, be in that moment of effortless presence, so that you can just go and breathe. That would be my call to action.
Speaker 1:Oh, deb, say those two words again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, effortless presence.
Speaker 1:I can see the pencil case. Now the stationery set secret some a coach pencil, sharp, always cutting edge.
Speaker 2:Here I'm like we love that effortless presence. I think that's my word of journaling. Having spoken to Lex, that feeling of burnout or overwhelm was like, okay, I need to do what I was able the people to do in journal and those two words just came out of oh, my god, and just saying it just brings me back to that space, if you like. That's my code word, that effortless presence, and it just goes and breathe and so, yeah, I'm going to practice that right lovely, no more stressful stressful presentism, no Effortless presence, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, deb's, let's leave that as a final thought, then, from today's episode, where we were joined by the magnificent Lex neighbor, and effortless presence will leave you with that thought. We hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact, at secrets from a coach, comm, or follow us on insta or facebook. If you're a Spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacochcom, and sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you see In the ever-changing world of work.