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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
204. Confidence to Speak Up and Call Out Inappropriate Behaviour
In this final episode of our Confidence Enables Success mini-series we focus on having the confidence to speak up, have a voice and address difficult or inappropriate moments. In particular, situations that require someone to call in or call out something that may be said or done that is not inclusive or mindful of difference.
Joined once again by the inspiration Nzinga Orgill who works with organisations to change cultures to make them more inclusive. Her focus is on action and doing the right thing and she shares her thoughts on how to avoid being a bystander and generate the confidence to speak up and have a voice.
A great listen for those looking for a practical approach to bystander training and all things EDI. Still the only Nzinga Orgill online, Nzinga can be contacted through LinkedIn and her profile is a treasure trove of resources to inspire and support you in making a positive difference.
Want more? Here are our other episodes featuring Nzinga:
Ep. 158 What is EDI and Why Is It Important?
Ep. 76 Embracing Diversity of Opinion
Ep. 161 Inclusive Communication - Talk The Talk, Walk The Walk (Debs & Lau)
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Debs, laura, you alright? Yeah, I'm doing well. How are you? Yeah, I'm all right. Good week. Yeah, really good week. I am loving our focus on confidence enables success and how just the variety of voices and different people's take on things. I just think it's sometimes really refreshing to disrupt your thinking, which is the phrase I know you use a lot and sometimes just hearing other people's experiences and stories just sort of stops you in your tracks a little bit and kind of consider actually, what could I take from this that I think might help me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and I love the fact there was such different takes on it, as you said, and being able to talk to different people and see what how they've applied it for themselves, but also how you can have the confidence to be able to speak to others as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm so looking forward to hearing your conversation with the fantastic Nzinga Orgil, who is just such a compelling communicator around this whole thing around confidence and, in particular, having the confidence to speak up in environments where not great behaviours are happening. And, Debs, I just think that is such a useful skill, not only us to be able to role model who are currently in the world of work, but also to be able to just make sure that there's an appropriate amount of use of power, you know, around meetings, for example. So Nzinga is just such a brilliant advocate in this area. All things ED and I and rather than it being theoretical and over there, it's the practical.
Speaker 1:If I see something happen, I think actually that's not cool. How do I handle that, and I know personally, having had the privilege of working with her for a number of years now. I have learned so much from her about how to step in and handle situations like that. Inside it might feel a bit stressful, but actually to have a calm, mindful approach to dealing with some of those things that are really difficult moments, and then it boils down to that confidence of hmm. I feel like I need to say something. Shall I Shant I, Whether that's a hybrid environment or face-to-face, so I'm so looking forward to this conversation that she had with you, yeah.
Speaker 2:So shall we take a listen and we can explore our takeaways once we've heard her.
Speaker 2:So welcome everyone.
Speaker 2:This is part of our series that we're doing around confidence and being able to have success in the world of work and, as you can see and you can hear in a moment, I'm being joined by Nzinga, who has been on our podcast before talking all things ED&I, and we've got her back because not only is she doing another string to her bow, she's also recently been doing some amazing work in the arena of what we call bystander training and Zynga will explain all of that to us in a moment Because we've seen an increase in people and organizations wanting to add this as part of their training and development in relation to building confidence within teams and within individuals to be able to speak up, call out, call in, in order for there's a better way of working and we're creating a safer space for people to feel okay to come to work and be at work knowing that people are looking out for them from a psychological safety point of view, but just from a human point of view.
Speaker 2:So I'm delighted to be able to chat all things to do with that, as well as some other stuff, with Nzinga. So welcome back, nzinga. Tell us what you've been doing since the last time we spoke.
Speaker 3:Well, first, of all, deb, thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure to join you and thank you for creating a platform to talk about these really important topics and getting it out there to a wider audience. I think I have to give you kudos for that and appreciate you for that. You're welcome. And so, in terms of myself so I'm still very much in the EDI space, still really pushing to drive the agenda forward in terms of creating that equitable and inclusive environment for all I have taken a slight change in terms of direction, and I'll tell you why. So a lot of the work that I do is all about delivering workshops, whether it's training, ideation, facilitation something that I'm really passionate about, and what I love in terms of the work that I do is getting that dialogue with attendees, with clients, in terms of where they are and where they want to get to, and understanding what the gap is and how to bridge that gap. Now, whilst doing that, I noticed that often I'd be saying goodbye to people, waving them off, wishing them well on their EDI journey and then touching base with them a few months or a year later and finding out they'd been very slow movement and little traction in that space, and I realised the reason for that is because there is no action plan at the end of these training sessions. There is no step by step in terms of what people need to do to get them to move and change the culture that they are part of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'll give you an example. Debs, it's all well that you might go in and attend an inclusive leadership training session. You'll learn all about what it means to be an inclusive leader, the the different types of traits, how you can show up. You might even get some really juicy scenarios, but what's really important is, once that session has finished, what is Deb's doing with that information? Is she percolating about it? Is it just sat there? Is it gathering dust, or has she actually got a clear action plan in terms of right? I know what it means to be an inclusive leader, I know how I am going to be an inclusive leader and I know the steps I need to take to drive that agenda forward. So, still doing the EDI work, but really focusing heavily on action, because I know that that's where we need to do the work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And how have people responded to the fact that, as you said, people come on a workshop and oh, that was lovely, and then it gathers dust? What are you noticing and how are people responding to the fact that they do walk away with a very easy in inverted commas action plan to take forward? How are they responding to that?
Speaker 3:To be really honest, it's been life changingchanging for some. Okay, so I've been really fortunate to do some one-to-one coaching, but also some group sessions, and what I found across all of those sessions that people have walked away empowered to know what to do next.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I know it's a topic that we're going to cover, but it's all about the confidence. Yeah, you know, having the confidence to know this is how I can get involved, this is how it aligns to who I am. This is how it aligns to the environment that I'm part of, so I'm able to contribute and do something. Yeah, because, let me be clear, we are all very different and we all have different ways in which we work and operate and interact, and it's about understanding and appreciating those differences, yeah, but using them in terms of the action we choose to take, going forward yeah, so it's been really really helpful to many people. You know, I've had people walk out of sessions saying now I know what I need to do and how I need to do it, and I just think look out, world. Yeah, we've got a lot of people that are empowered, that have got confidence, that now have the skills and understanding that are going to really change.
Speaker 2:That's amazing and I think you know credit to you for keep. You know the work moving forward around that and committing to those actions with people and helping them feel, as you said, confident to know that they can. So, talking about that, what do you think when you're thinking about confidence within people, if we just take calling in, calling out behaviours, for instance let's just use that as an example. To start with and I know you covered that in the bystander training that you were running recently for a global organization, which was amazing what does enable people to have the confidence to lean in to have a conversation? Do you think?
Speaker 3:I love this question, debs, and, if I can, I'm going to strip it back a little bit. Okay, cool, because confidence, to me, there's a couple of words that align to confidence. So, for example, to confide, which is to have that trust in being able to share information with somebody. Yeah, it's to be a confidant, so to again be an ally who is trusted to receive information from people who, who might be vulnerable, who might be, you know, oppressed, who might need to share something of a confidential nature. Yeah, confidentiality, so creating that psychological safe space where people are able to share openly and honestly and therefore again move the agenda forward. And then, finally, confidence, which, to me, is all around self Trusting in yourself, having the confidence in yourself to execute and deliver on what you need to deliver on.
Speaker 3:So, when we're thinking about confidence in terms of any interactions, but looking at, for example, calling in and calling things out, what's really important is where those C's show up for you. Yeah, and to me, I think, in terms of calling in, which is more of a conversation hand, it's more raising awareness to a particular type of behavior that isn't appropriate. You know, it doesn't need to necessarily be as direct and as head-on as potentially calling something out is yeah, but it still needs to be a conversation that's had. If you feel that you are able to be confident, to trust yourself to execute that conversation well, it's going to go well. If we created that confidentiality and that psychological safe space again, you're going to be able to have that conversation with comfort and ease. So it's really about how those seeds play in, and the same with calling out. So, for example, you might witness something that's inappropriate or actually quite harmful in terms of mental, emotional and physical wellbeing to others, so you are going to directly approach it.
Speaker 3:Again, it's all about am I confident in how I'm going to call this out?
Speaker 3:Do I have the trust in myself? Do I have the skillset in myself? Am I comfortable to take action and trust I'll get that action delivered? In calling this out, do I feel that I have the right resources around me? Have I got a confidant, an ally who I can speak to if I need to, and am I able to move the situation forward? That's something that I really think is so crucially important.
Speaker 3:When we think about confidence in terms of calling in, calling out and then also really aligning it to who we are, you know, there's nothing worse than trying to, you know, put on a persona that doesn't align to who you are and then take action in that persona. You're not going to have confidence behind it because ultimately it doesn't align to who you are as an individual, it doesn't align to your core values. So I'm not saying to people when you're jumping into, intervene or call something in or call something out, you need to throw on a cape and become something else. Be yourself, know what values you have, know what values are important to you, and think about how you then can weave in the action you take with the confidence you have to do what you need to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that, I love that and it is so, so true, isn't it? And I think, a lot of some of the time when we're working in teams and you know, we, we're very privileged right when we're working in some team space and we're enabling people to start to understand who they are and what their values are. And a couple of weeks ago we were sort of just chatting, as the group were, about what's going on in their place of work and how they feel they can't speak up because they feel that they're not going to get heard, no one's going to take them seriously. One person said I did try and raise something but I was just shouted down and people said I was just being what's the word that they use? I was just being a painful person. That was what they used. Oh, just let it go.
Speaker 2:And it was like for me it was mind blowing that there are organizations that are not enabling people to speak up. So it was fascinating to sort of give that conversation some air in the room to sort of work out so what could you do if you're faced with that again? But the thing that struck me was what they said. Or one person in particular said what's the point? And it's like, oh my god. So if you're faced with that and people go, what's the point? What's your, what's your response to that?
Speaker 3:that's a really, it's a really unfortunate situation.
Speaker 3:But, as you mentioned, deb, the reality is that it's a really, it's a really unfortunate situation, but, as you mentioned, there's a reality that it's happening quite a lot. And you know, I think it's just about understanding that. What part can you play in changing something? Yeah, and when we talk about the part we play in changing something, it doesn't mean that the action we take is going to automatically see an end result there. And then, yes, you know, there are things that we need to chip away at. We think about any type of inequity or inequality.
Speaker 3:It's taken years, if not, to some degree, decades of work of people chipping away, different people playing parts, to really tackle something. That isn't okay. So, when you know, I'm faced with or or you know, whenever we're faced with people that are saying what the what is the point? The point is that, in order for things to change, we all have to play a part in it. Yeah, not the same part, but a part in it. Yeah, and also, and really importantly, what we are prepared to walk past defines the culture that we're part of. Yeah, that's true, and if you don't like that culture, you have an opportunity to change it.
Speaker 3:And yes, you know, I completely understand there are organisations that are not ready to hear what their employees or their staff have to say in terms of things that are happening. That is an unfortunate reality. Yeah, and sometimes I'm going to be very, really brutal and honest about it. Do you want to be working for an organization who isn't going to give you that psychological safety to be able to speak up about things? Yeah, because clearly there's a question around value in terms of how they feel about their employees and staff, you know, but I would encourage everyone keep going. Yeah, keep going, because the small differences lead to the big changes yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And and, as you said, it's having the confidence, and even if, you know, I mean they came up with a bit of an action that said, well, maybe if I speak to somebody else in the team who may be experiencing it too. So it was like they were gathering their people, if you like, to feel confident to be able to go I'm not just a lone voice in that and it was really interesting to just work out what sat behind their reason for not calling out. One said what's the point? Can't be bothered no one to do anything? Anyway, I've tried it before and nothing's happened, and it was quite a sad space to be in for a moment.
Speaker 2:I mean, we did turn it around and they got action and they have done something about it, which is amazing. But how often do we have those open conversations where we, I suppose, give people permission to explore how they can have those conversations and to give them the confidence to do that? So, when you're thinking about the work you're doing, how do you, I suppose, create that space that enables people to try it on for size before they maybe go and do it for real? How do you create that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, again, all about the psychological safety, and what I've found as well is sometimes when we are delivering well, when I'm delivering workshops and training sessions you know it can be a case of you've got different people that sit at different levels of the organization in separate rooms. Yes, so you'll have your senior leaders or your exec in one workshop and you'll have your middle manager in another workshop and you'll have your frontline management in another workshop. And where I've actually seen the value is sometimes when you mix it up a little bit. But it is so important when you are mixing it up and you've got everybody sitting in the same space that you emphasize and drive forward that psychological safety and that openness in terms of we want people to feel comfortable to share their views and opinions. We want people to feel that they're not going to be penalized professionally or in any other way for speaking their truth. And what I tend to do is I weave in anonymous activities. So you know, rather than saying, okay, debs, what do you think about leadership, tell me all you know and then putting you in a position where you're feeling conflicted about wanting to share but actually not feeling comfortable to share, there'll be anonymous activities like slidos or other things, get people sharing and you know, we can unpick some of the things that come out of that where people can be really vulnerable. Yes, but actually they've not had to sign it and say who they are. You know, and it's about getting people to really challenge different perspectives. Leadership are only really able to understand what they are visibly aware of and what's brought to their attention. Yes, and sometimes you've got a little bit of a blocker in terms of middle management, where that information isn't flowing as well as it could be. It should be. So, by bringing people all together, you'll get to hear actually directly from frontline individuals, from other individuals in the organization, what is going on. And as a leader, as an inclusive leader who is open to learning and being vulnerable and wants to prioritize the needs and experiences of their employees, their clients, their customers yeah, what we have to do is be receptive to feedback. I think that's one thing as well. That kind of ties into the piece around confidence. Also, debs, yeah, you know, it's one thing to be able to say, right'm gonna listen to what you have to say, but are you actively listening, not to challenge back or push back or even be defensive, but to say this is what I thought was going on, this is what I've been told is going on. Let me actively listen and think about what that means for the organization that I'm leading. Yes, what can I do about it and how can I bring the people along with me on that journey? Yeah, you know. So it takes a lot of being confident enough to say I think I might have all the answers, but actually I don't, and I want to have as much information as possible to be the best inclusive leader that I can be. Yeah, so you know, for me it's just about bringing people together, getting those anonymous bits of feedback, putting it out there for people to really see and then reminding them.
Speaker 3:Yes, when you're in an organisation, when you're in business, it's important to think about things like the bottom line. It's important to think about reputation and brand. It's important to mitigate against, you know, legal or ethical consequences. Yeah, but also, what's equally important is creating that safe space, that environment for your employees and staff to thrive. They're not going to thrive if they're not being heard. And yeah, then it's, if that isn't working, finding other people to speak to. So I love the point you made. It doesn't always have to be your direct report line manager. It can be a designated safeguarding manager or an individual that works in that space. Yeah, it can be your manager's manager. It can be an an employee resource group lead or a safe space that you have the opportunity to speak to. It can be hr yeah. What is important is the conversation is had, yes, and it doesn't stop. Don't be hindered by people not being receptive to it. Just find somebody else who is yeah, and that's that.
Speaker 2:Drop the pebble in and watch it ripple right from there. And I know I think you're, you're, you know I completely agree with you on everything you've said there. And I think when you're looking at sometimes where we get coaching first time managers and you find last week I was coaching somebody who is a first line manager who was struggling with that going from the team member to being the team manager, if you like, so that buddy to boss position that they were in and struggling to, if you like, deal with a situation that had come up where they just felt it was wrong and the banter, the good old B words came out as they were talking around. You know how, as a first time manager, do I deal with that? Because these people that I was a colleague with, or also my friends, but I'm now responsible for the team and the wider team and I can't let that just go. So it was again.
Speaker 2:It was interesting. We explored it obviously in a bit more detail to build the confidence for that first time manager to do that. But what would you, what would your advice be to those people that are finding themselves in that role for the first time and realizing the enormity of what they are responsible for. Is other people right? How would you know? What advice would you give them?
Speaker 2:oh, so this is a really so much I can imagine I personally lived in myself.
Speaker 3:So, okay, definitely got some really applicable kind of tools and techniques that I've used. I think the first thing is, obviously, you know, if you were having to move in a position where you were at the same level as friends, you're now having to manage and lead them. One thing that I found useful was to have a conversation with those friends. Nice, I'm stepping up into a senior role or a management role, and I'd appreciate your support in terms of making sure your role, your role modeling the kind of behaviors I'd expect to see in the people that I'm managing. Yeah, ultimately, and I'm going to be really honest, debs, when you do get a promotion and you move up the organization, you soon find out who your real friends are.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's very true, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's kind of one thing to bear in mind. Another thing I'd really think about is the personal development in my myself. I've obviously put myself forward to move up into a new role. There's a reason behind that, and I need to remind myself of that reason if it's something that's aligned to my vision in terms of where I want to go in terms of career aspirations. I need to constantly remind myself of that. Yeah, I'm stepping up because this is something that I wanted to do. I put the work in it, and I need to always be keeping that at the forefront of my mind.
Speaker 3:Also, again, having the focus on really being inclusive. So there were going to be instances where you're going to actually have to call people out for their behavior. Yeah, yeah, yeah, call them in or call them out, whichever one you choose, but it's about creating an inclusive way of doing that. Yes, so I'll give you an example. When I moved up from a um frontline level to a management level, it wasn't even just friends who I had to kind of set and establish boundaries with. It was also people that I kind of casually used to work alongside that were pushing boundaries, right, okay, and for me what was important was being able to call them in and call them out, but actually bring them in, not saying what they're doing is no longer appropriate. You can't do that with me. Yeah, now I've kind of singled you out and othered you. You're feeling excluded. It was more as a case of you know what you know. I appreciate you supporting me on the journey. I'm finding my feet here and, you know, what would really help me is if you were able to do this or provide that. Yeah, so try and turn it around and make it something that really helps you in terms of what you need to do. Nice, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you know the last thing, and there are so many other things, but the last thing I'll really touch upon is the emotionality. Take that out the equation. Yes, you know, when it comes to banter or these conversations or these jokes that people have, strip it back and think about. Is this causing offense to anybody? Is it likely to cause offense to anybody? If so, I need to intervene and do that in an inclusive way.
Speaker 3:But actually it's not about getting emotionally tied to the outcome. If someone is your friend or someone is a colleague who cares about you and cares about your progression and your, you know you rising through the ranks, they're going to understand and they're going to appreciate the conversation you've had with them and continue to support you. Yeah, obviously, where you don't get that, you might move from calling in to calling out to you know formal process in terms of, you know, disciplinary I've been there myself and at the end of it it's an unfortunate situation to have to take someone through. But as a leader, as a new leader you are responsible for people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not just your friends, not just for those who you know. Yeah, for everybody. And it's staff, yeah, it's customers, it's clients, it's it's stakeholders, it's everybody. So to make one person feel comfortable and by allowing them to behave inappropriately is not okay if it makes everybody else feel uncomfortable. Yeah, and as a leader, you need to find the confidence, using your personal development, using your inclusive way of calling in, calling out, using your removal of emotionality, to get that end result.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing. Yeah, great advice for anybody listening into that and I suppose, as we sort of wrap this up, we could talk forever about this. I love this topic. Why do you think bystander training in particular is coming back on to the ED&I agenda? Because we've seen an increase of people asking for it over the last, you know, probably year or so. It was always there, right. It's just suddenly it's back as on the agenda. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you know there's been so many things that have been happening, you know across the media but in life in general, and I think it's just not enough now to just sit there and say, right, we're going to leave the policies of the organization, the process of the organization, to deal with it. But also, I think it's not good enough either to allow for those that are impacted by the situation to always have to deal with it and to kind of elaborate on that. When we think about a bystander situation, you will have a perpetrator and you know the target. Yeah, the target, victim, victim, however you choose to frame that individual, and more often or not, when it's been things like that, the onus has been on the target or the victim to go and report it or flag something. But I think people are realizing that not everybody is able to do that. Yeah, not everyone is comfortable speaking out, not everybody has the skill set to speak out. Not everybody knows there's a way of speaking out, because different people have different lived experiences and different exposure to certain things that might give them that information. Yeah, there's a.
Speaker 3:I feel there's a movement happening in terms of people wanting to get involved, because they are now taking a vested interest in the culture that they're part of. Yeah, and they're now again aligning it to their values and thinking actually, I'm not comfortable with this. This doesn't sit right with me, because one thing I will say as well, dems, is that when you are intervening in a bystander situation, don't ever go in there to save the target or victim, because ultimately, that person might not want you to come in and intervene, might not want you to have any involvement in it and might be actually fine with how things are playing out. That's why it's important where, if you're seeing something that really doesn't align to you and you're witnessing it and you're experiencing it, you have the right to intervene. You have the right to say actually, this doesn't align with my values in terms of equality, this doesn't know around my values in terms of respect, and then you can call it out yeah, but what I'm seeing and what I'm understanding is there's more of a a willingness to empower people, to have those skills to call things out, because in doing so, we also prevent them from being escalated and going through disciplinary and legal consequences and everything else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it allows for things to be captured and dealt with there, and then it's almost like you've got a team of superheroes out there fighting the cause without having to be taken to the, you know, the most senior parts of the organization. Yeah, and again, and I'll keep stating, what we prepared are prepared to tolerate defines the culture, but also, what we're not prepared to tolerate defines the culture as well. What we're not prepared to tolerate defines the culture as well. Very true, a lot of movement around that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's fantastic oh my god, it's amazing, and I know you know you'll continue to do the work that you're doing. So if there was one piece of advice you would give people, what would that be?
Speaker 3:steps. Honestly, you like to put me on the spot.
Speaker 2:I do like to put you on the spot, and I know it's only one, whereas I know you have a wealth of experience you could share. But if we had to, I was gonna say, if we were to give them just one for now, and they can find you and then decide where they want more from you. Let's give them one as a taster. What would you say? I?
Speaker 3:think you know, we've spoken about taking emotionality out, which I think is important, but I think the one thing I would say is let's think about ourselves in terms of the abilities that we have and then we break this down really quickly, because I know we're wrapping up, but we talk about things like having responsibility, having accountability, having capability. Let's really draw it back and think about as individuals. We have all got abilities. Yeah, I've got the ability to be responsible. Yes, I've got the ability to take accounts or be held, you know, to account. I have the ability to find what makes me capable to do what I need to do in terms of taking action. I like that. My one takeaway would be in everything, work out what your abilities are, understand what you can do to be responsible, capable, whatever the ability is, but use that and then use that to guide you forward, to build your confidence.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I love that. I love that we do. You're right, we all have the ability. It's just how we choose to channel it right and it's a choice.
Speaker 3:So I love that.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that was a good one. So people might want to find out more about the work that you're doing. How can they reach out to you? What's the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 3:So I would say jump onto my LinkedIn. I am Nzinga Orgiel MBA. I think I'm the only Nzinga Orgiel still.
Speaker 2:You are still.
Speaker 3:I keep saying that, so I think I might have to keep checking and making sure that's the case. But pick me up on LinkedIn, because you won't just get to find out what I do. You'll see some of the work that I've done. You'll get to see some of my interesting videos. I'm now doing more around. Yes, you'll get to see the kind of things that I follow and comment on, because I think what's important is, you know if I'm talking about taking action and living by that value, because that's one of my values. Yeah, you see me doing that.
Speaker 2:so rather than me telling you what I do, let me show you what I'm up to oh my god, I love that and that's why I just love talking to you, because you are showing it and living and breathing it every moment. And it's always a privilege to talk to you about this topic and I just thought it was the right time to you know, to link it with our confidence to do and I think, thank you, as always, for your wisdom and your expertise. It's been amazing to chat to you and I'm sure we'll be chatting again in the near future.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you for having me, debs. I appreciate it Anytime, take care.
Speaker 2:Thank you, bye-bye. So, laura, what was your takeaways? What did you think?
Speaker 1:As ever, debs, I just find Nzinga so inspirational because she is, isn't she, she really is. These are not easy topics. If it was easy then it wouldn't cause any challenges that we're seeing in workplaces at the moment and that ability to encourage a wide diversity of people sitting around a table or dialing onto a room. With that diversity of people comes the risk of not everyone is going to communicate in a way that everyone is happy with and there might be some really inappropriate behaviors that take place. And how do you deal with it? And just listening to her talk, I just think it helps reinstate in your own mind certainly in my own mind, right, if I were to spot things like that happening, what's my role in that, what's the impact I want to have and practically, how might I go about that. So yeah, I'm buzzing after listening to that. It's good isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I totally agree, if you get that feeling that something isn't right, it's trusting your instinct and, as you said, maybe if you're not quite sure how to approach it, being able to not ignore that feeling because it's giving you signs and symptoms and signals that are going you might need to do something. So I think her practical approach to being able to do that came across, and I love the fact that you know we choose what we act, how we act, and action plan is all about the action. It's no good just sitting theoretically reading about it or talking it. It's what are you going to do with it, which is the most important part. So, yeah, I loved it. I love talking to her about that and, yeah, she's just so knowledgeable and has so much experience in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just makes it an easier, it's just a refreshing way to look at it. So you know and I think that would be my share the secret If you've got a colleague or a mate who's working in an environment that doesn't feel okay but they're not quite sure what to do, then getting to listen to this and just to remember, actually, you know, one person can start creating change. Yeah, same as one person can have a huge toxic influence on a team, and so the reverse, the inverse, is true. One person with positive intent actually can start to make a difference. It's just having that confidence to be able to speak up and say something. So you might have a friend with whom this is causing them real stress in their work at the moment or they're worrying about something.
Speaker 1:Get them to listen to this and sometimes it can be really empowering to just have some thoughts and phrases and intentions that you're prepared to be able to do something to have a response?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that would be my call to action. What I said earlier trust your gut. If it doesn't feel right or it feels a bit meh, it just means you have to do something, and so that would be mine. Trust your gut if that's my call to action and then follow through on it. Yeah, marvellous it's been a good series, hasn't it oh?
Speaker 1:I've loved it and I think, just listening to different people's takes. So we had Mo talking about the idea of take the shot and I can't tell you how his voice is in my mind now of just step forward. Yeah, just step forward, just step forward to those wobbly moments, whether it's into a cold shower or whether it's onto a stage, those kind of moments. And it was just brilliant, his take on confidence.
Speaker 1:We've heard from Pippa sitting there in a gold lime jumpsuit reminding us that actually you know the best is yet to come and sometimes having that confidence to listen to yourself and to try out some new things.
Speaker 2:And I've seen her actually on social media already talking about what she was saying about vaginal dryness, brilliant bladder control. She's getting the message out there.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So if you haven't listened to that one, it's a funny one.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, we kicked it off looking at actually the humble work of preparation is actually for many success stories is what sits there is hundreds of hours of quiet prep or prep inside your head to enable someone to go out there and smash it. So if you don't feel like you can go out there and wing it and be 100% success, well, no one can. So that's that's quite quite uh normal and that's okay. So, not feeling like you are set up for success unless you've done lots of prep yeah, own it, because actually behind most success stories there's lots of prep. So that's a nice little reminder on that. And then, of course, we've been uh finished with the inspirational Nzinga and Debs.
Speaker 1:I was having a conversation with a group of leaders the other evening about how the wonderful thing about learning is it just keeps you optimistic because you're able to check in with your current surroundings. So what's going on for me right now? And with a bit of learning, a bit of knowledge and sort of thinking about how might I take this forward, it just reminds you there is a tomorrow, things can change, you can move forward, and that's why I'm so looking forward to our next month's focus. Yes, all about optimism. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's my favourite topic, because there is always a little bit of light and hope and opportunity and we have to have the optimistic mindset to be able to explore it. So, yeah, looking forward to exploring that one a bit more ourselves.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, debs. Could it be? The best is yet to come, Could it? Dear listeners, you can be the judge. I'd rather go back to episode one. Thanks, love that Brilliant. Have a gorgeous week. You too and look after yourself, and I'll see you on the other side you'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 2:Love you lots.
Speaker 1:Love you bye we hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secrets from a coachcom, or follow us on insta or facebook. If you're a Spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacoachcom and sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work.