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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
210. Overcoming Bad Boss Trauma
In the second in our 5-part season on the hot topics around workplace cultures in reality we explore how to handle the trauma of having a bad boss. Whether a current reality or dealing with a past experience, we are joined by the inspirational Angie Carter who shares her advice for handling or overcoming a bad boss.
Angie is a Psychotherapeutic Counsellor who is seeing increasing numbers of people come to her therapy room wanting help as a result of having a bad boss experience. From knocking our confidence, to feeling like an imposter, she shares her ICE approach to reclaiming power and self-worth.
Not an easy topic, we hope this helps any of those who have had a bad boss experience themselves, or for those bosses out there who really want to do it the right way in their leadership style and interactions with people.
You can connect with Angie Carter via her counselling profile
Curious? You might like some of these earlier episodes:
204. Confidence to Speak Up and Call Out Inappropriate Behaviour
141. Handling Self-Doubt
79. Handling the Impact of Others
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Debs, laura, you alright? Yeah, I'm doing'm doing well. Yeah, had a good week. I've had a good week. Yeah, I've done something to my wrist. I mean, there's all sorts of smutty jokes that I could link in with there, couldn't I? But uh, I've spent a lot of time on my own but, um, and it kind of makes I've got this wrist thing on, so it makes any activity you do feel a bit like extreme.
Speaker 1:So we're extreme podcasting today, devs, we are, we're hardcore Laura we're on it Hardcore, which is kind of the mindset you need really at the moment. Do this mid-decade roundup that we've been looking at the workplace realities, as we've called it so where at last episode we were focusing on actually the quicker we can just accept that these are uncertain times and surf that kind of chaos, because otherwise it's kind of doubly stressful. There's lots of changes that are going on and this one we have been really looking forward to this topic for months, debs, because we've had this on our mind for quite a while and it's interesting. So you meet people in the comings and goings and Angie, who is our guest, and I know you'll introduce her in a moment she hires out a bit of space in the hair salon where I go. We got chatting and I said you know what we did and the podcast. And I said you know what we did and the podcast.
Speaker 1:Angie then said to me the amount of adults who come into her practice who, quite frankly, are traumatised from some really bad work experiences. They've had bad bosses, people acting really in not nice ways and how it can really chip away at people's confidence and sense of esteem. And it just so happened at that time you and I and the team were doing various workshops, as we always do, and there just seemed to be a couple of people who were just limping a little bit from having exited some really not nice workplaces and, you know, it kind of made that change. So we just thought this could be quite a powerful conversation around from an expert who has spent many, many hours counselling people in overcoming trauma as a result of having a bad boss.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was just brilliant. And, as you said, laura, it's a topic that we do see quite a lot, and having the opportunity to just talk to her and see it from that side, it was just fascinating. So shall we have a listen in and see what Angie has to share with us? Welcome to this episode that Laura and I have been waiting for for a very long time. And for those of you that are watching this, you can see we have a guest with us, angie Carter, who I'll get her to tell you a little bit about herself first.
Speaker 3:But we know that this is quite a hot topic at the moment and certainly in our practice we're picking up a lot of noise around this bad boss. So Angie, as the expert, is going to be sharing her wisdom with us as we talk about. What does this mean? How can we avoid it, how do we exit, what do we do, how do we overcome it and how do we not maybe take it on as our own? So I am delighted to be joined by Angie. Welcome, angie. Tell us about you.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you so much, deb. So great to be here as part of the Secrets from a Coach family. Yes, I'm a trauma-informed psychotherapeutic counsellor, registered and accredited. That all sounds like a huge mouthful but actually, essentially, I help people yes, brilliant and have been doing so for the last 25 years in education and healthcare capacity. And you know this topic is so close to my heart because I've held several leadership positions and I've been subject to some great leadership and some not so great leadership. So I am so happy to be here.
Speaker 3:I can't wait. And obviously, as you said, your experience over the years, I'd be interested to see what sort of maybe changed or are there similar traits back 20 odd years ago as there are that we're seeing today? So I'd be interested to see where your experience brings into it. So I'd be interested to see where your experience brings into it. So let me ask you this question what is it that causes someone to be that in inverted commas bad boss?
Speaker 2:Oh well, do you know, there are lots of things that contribute to being a bad boss or a terrible boss, and I really like to encourage my clients and I'd love to encourage your audience as well, this team, to take a compassionate approach in looking at the terrible boss. If we take the line, hurting people hurt people and they can hurt them quite badly and if we remember that every sort of bad boss is shielding what I'd call a scared child In fact, aren't we all doing that slightly in our day-to-day? Yes, they're just working exceptionally hard at masking it, and that can come across as bullying behaviour, being angry, micromanaging. They are basically turning up as the scary parent in the workplace or the scary caregiver that they may have experienced when they were, when they were younger, and it's creating a wall isn't it?
Speaker 3:yeah, it is. I think it is creating that wall and I think, like you're saying that interestingly where I'll get you to sort of expand on that about showing up as that scary child or that controlling parent, because where does that come from?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, we know that our experiences from childhood and growing up have an impact on how we show up in our relationships for ourselves and in relationships, and especially at work relationships for ourselves and in relationships, and especially at work. And so a lot of my work is looking at how the there and then, what we experienced in our relationships as children with our parents or our caregivers important people in our lives, important adults in our lives and how that impacts us in terms of how we relate to people now. So, if I may, can I share a little experience of mine? Yes, please. I think when we were chatting, sort of pre-recording really hit me before we spoke. So I always encourage people to look back and think you know when we're taking that compassionate approach.
Speaker 2:What is it about this boss? Do they remind me of somebody from my past, and I wish I'd known this sooner rather than later when I started my therapeutic training. But I'll give you a little example. I was working for somebody who I found really intimidating and they weren't a particularly pleasant person. They were micromanaging, they would change deadlines, expectations, all of those things, but I reacted.
Speaker 2:I found myself reacting in a real what we'd call adapted child way it was like I was going right back to when I was little and I was scared and I was frightened and I'd keep my eyes down and I'd speak really quietly. And when I started my therapeutic training journey and I was forced to reflect, who did this person remind me of? And I was transported right back to the classroom when I was about six years old and I had just completed the first page of my new exercise book and I had spelt does incorrectly not once, but eight times. Okay, Now, even talking to you about it now, I can feel myself back there. The thing was this boss wasn't my teacher. The way that she made me feel tapped into the little Angie that was six years old around that table to the little Angie that was six years old, around that table.
Speaker 3:When you think about just that on that level, how incredible is that? That all of that, that, in effect, was a traumatic experience for you, right Back at the six-year-old Angie that had to endure that and never let that go. Really, it's always been there, obviously, in the back of your mind, hasn't it? And then not everybody would have triggered you, I suppose, but it's interesting that certain people triggered you. So what is it sometimes about those people that trigger us, that do take us back there. What is it about them?
Speaker 2:Well, quite often there's a huge amount of insecurity, so they're also shielding their scared child. They're also perhaps behaving in ways that they thought was okay when they were growing up. Maybe they were brought up within an environment where fear and intimidation was the means of parenting. Transition was the means of parenting where it was okay. And you may even hear you know sad stories and I do get this where you'll come across a conversation which was well, my parents beat me and that was okay and I turned out all right you do hear that sometimes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, did, did she though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Did she though. So you know, our bad bosses are healing as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is such a kind way to look at it, isn't? It Is through the lens of compassion, and I know we always say that says more about them than it does about you. But I suppose the impact that a bad boss can have on you can last a lifetime, can't it? And I suppose, in your experience, what can people do if they do have this bad boss? What do you suggest they do to try and overcome that?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a really good question because, yes, there's a place for the compassionate approach and that's really important. We know and research and evidence bears this out that the more compassion we can feel towards others, even when they're being pretty grotty, is actually empowering, that we should never mistake kindness for weakness. However, as much as compassion is important and we can recognise the pressures that our bosses might be under, isn't it interesting that the Gen Z at the moment are trying to avoid? Did you see that article in Forbes? I did. You know don't want to go down a leadership route or middle management route, because they know the amount of stress that comes with it.
Speaker 2:We often don't know the burdens that our bosses are carrying. So that compassionate and kind approach is important, but at the same time, it can have such a profound effect, as you said, upon our mental health and how we feel about ourselves. And so if you're waking up in the morning and you've got that pit in your stomach and you're shaking or you just can't bear the thoughts of getting out of bed, if you're experiencing the Sunday scaries on a Saturday afternoon, if you are dreading opening your inbox or seeing your boss, then you have developed, or are developing some really frightening symptoms of being within a toxic culture and having a bad boss, and if that is the case, it is really, really important to get help, because you're not going to be able to rely on your boss to help you to heal.
Speaker 3:Because they probably don't see it. No, absolutely they won't. Potentially They'd be the last people to know it. And I know I was working with somebody recently who says but where do I go for help? Because one of the things that somebody was saying to me was that I don't know whether I can go above my boss to go and speak to somebody else, but where do I go for help? So, again, that sometimes stops people from reaching out to get help, doesn't it? Because they then are in fear of what if their boss finds out, and it just creates chaos. What would you say to those people?
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of companies now have EAP or employment assistant programs, and I would really encourage anybody who has access to that to make contact. Your boss will not find out about it. You're not reported by name.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you've covered this before and it's a really helpful resource to gain support in the here and now, in the immediate, just to help you sort out your feelings about your work and whether indeed it is time to move on.
Speaker 2:At the point that your mental health has been impacted, it's really important to start thinking about your next moves and just having a space in which to talk about how you're feeling, because it's quite likely that when you've been subjected to a bad boss for a long time, you can begin to internalize all this stuff and think that it's you. Yes, so some people, they go well, I'm just. I'm just not really any good at what I do and I can't do presentations and I'm really nervous and I'm this, that and the other, and you sort of start unpeeling and you go okay, what's going on here? They're terrified to make mistakes. Yeah, you need that therapeutic support. Find a good colleague that you trust and somebody that you can talk to. But that sort of counselling, therapeutic support, moving forward, is really important because you need to start building your own self-esteem up again, which is so irrevocably at times damaged by experiencing poor leadership.
Speaker 3:I think you're right and I know I've come across it just as you have. I've been on the receiving end of it just as you have, and that ability to rebuild yourself can take a very long time because, even though you might move on to another organisation or another boss, there's still that little niggling voice isn't there in the back of your head going, yeah, but what if? And you just try and quieten it down, but you don't always, so it's really hard. So you know, when you're saying about building your backup, your self-esteem, what types of things could people start to check in on themselves with, to help them with that?
Speaker 2:Well, I know we say this all the time, but really taking care of your wellbeing is so critical. It's the first thing to go out the window when we're stressed, isn't it? It is so, you know, the exercise routine might be non-existent, the daily walk might be non-existent All the things that you know up here that you should be doing, go out of the window. Yeah, good nutrition, so important can't emphasize that enough, because we know don't have.
Speaker 2:90 percent of serotonin is produced in the tummy. If we're not looking after our tummy, it can't help our brains out. You know that's a happiness, um, chemical, yeah, so vital. So dig in. Dig in on your self-care Mindfulness. It doesn't have to be half an hour, an hour of meditation, just taking a couple of minutes each day to be outside or play headspace, or there's so many apps out there that can be, that can be helpful yeah, there is, and just breathe as well, free yes, and I've had people sit in front of me, go, you know, and just one more person tells me to breathe, you know, and we've all been there, haven't we?
Speaker 2:yeah, we have yes like really, but it is essential. Yes, it is so essential, not just to to life. But you know, we're as soon as we breathe and we're exhaling, we're calming our nervous system down, we're much more. We're much more grounded, our brains going oh, my god, there's nothing to be afraid of now. Yeah, so being really intentional about self-care yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:I think that's the key and I love the fact that you've mentioned that when we're under a duress or stress or pressure or, as you said, scary Saturdays coming and that you're only going to work on a Monday, you've lost your whole Sunday and Saturday afternoon. Because it's playing out in your mind If we don't intentionally do the things we know that are good for us and they're all basic stuff it just goes and escalates, doesn't it? And yeah, and then, obviously, I'm sure you've come across people that then come to you with real low self-esteem, lacking a lot of confidence. They have imposter syndrome, which rears its ugly head every time, which goes, oh, you're not an imposter and you don't have a syndrome, but but let's talk about that, so it's really hard.
Speaker 2:I mean, deb, I mean you've hit the nail on the head. There it's. You know, when you look at the Saturday and the Sunday and how you're feeling and all the anxiety that you have, you know, I always say to the lovely people I work with you know, please, you know, don't let the fear of the future impact on your present, on your here and now. So you know, our fear of the future absolutely robs our present joy. It does, it takes, it sucks all the life out of the moment. You can't have a happy family gathering, you can't relax at the barbecue because you head somewhere on Monday morning.
Speaker 2:So, that's where it becomes even more essential to be grounded in the here and now and really be present with the people that you love in the times that are not at work. But that's on the wellbeing side, quietening all those voices. The imposter syndrome. Am I good enough? Now the next bit. You probably know what I'm going to say. Say it anyway. If it's a really toxic box, exit. Yeah, you need to get out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, get out, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:You know, I realise the reality is that not everybody's in a privileged position where you can just go well, do you know what? Sod you, I'm off. We've got responsibilities and families and bills to pay and all of that. And so basically start thinking this is part of your wellbeing, about your exit strategy. Make each day count rather than being a day of dread. Make each day count rather than being a day of dread.
Speaker 2:Each day that you go in, you're closer to the exit. Yeah, start reviewing your cv. You don't have to spend a whole such just a little bit each day.
Speaker 2:Brilliant progress principle yeah a little bit of progress each day. Really notice about what you're contributing in your role. Remember what you're good at. Talk to your colleagues, really listen intently and start looking. Start looking out there, start making connections, reconnecting with old connections. But this is from a position of power. This is empowering. You are not a victim. Now You've drawn a line that you will not be treated in this way anymore, and this is about digging deep, digging in and going. Do you know what? Actually, I'm going to be my number one cheerleader here. Don't be expecting your boss to tell you how brilliant your presentation was or how great your presentation skills are or how good at meeting deadlines you are. You remind yourself, yeah definitely.
Speaker 3:I think it's so, so important and that's the bit that disappears first. Isn't it that whole self-worth and valuing? And I know one of the things that we often hear is people say they want to get better at managing upwards. If I got a pound for every time, somebody said to me, how do I manage upwards with my horrendous boss? Because you know they're going to make or break my career, or I don't know how to approach them. And then also, what I then hear sometimes is oh, there's no point, because nothing changes and your heart just goes out to those people, doesn't it? So it's like, no, you can make the change. But it's the giving the belief that they can because, as you said, the pressures are on them to say, well, what if I don't get another job? What if no one employs me? My boss is so connected that he might tell someone else that I was a pain. And, oh my God, the stories that I hear are just mind blowing. So how can we get better at managing up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can imagine, deb, the stories that you hear in your role and in terms of managing up. You know, we know, what a bad boss looks like. It can involve enormous amounts of micromanagement, changing goalposts. Did you really say that you know, really questioning yourself All the things that I know that you have covered? Keep a paper trail. Insist that everything is in writing, for your own sanity more than anything else.
Speaker 2:Check back in with your boss. If you have had that sort of water cooler conversation and they've said well, I want you to do X Y Z by this date. Drop them a little email Good to see you in the corridor today just to confirm X Y Z. Just make sure that you are belt and braces in everything you do. Now this is where, for those of you that were going, oh, stuff, this kindness and compassion business, I just want to know and I get that I really really do get that now.
Speaker 2:This is where kindness and compassion is important for you in terms of your integrity, our, our integrity as professionals, particularly if you have an exit strategy in mind. You're being very professional if you're checking in with your boss, just clarifying dates, just clarifying timelines on projects, just clarifying the detail, perhaps checking in to make sure that they're happy with the way things are going, and it sounds like a really exhausting way to live and it is, and we shouldn't have to do that. But it's about building from your side as positive a relationship with somebody, very difficult as you, as you can. We're basically adulting then we are adulting.
Speaker 3:You're absolutely right. I always say, look, you only have to work with them, you don't have to take them home and live with them. So thank god sometimes, but yeah, it's hard. So I suppose what advice would you give to people who are bad bosses and don't even know it?
Speaker 2:Do you know? That's a brilliant question, because when I think about sort of bad bosses who don't know it, my thoughts go straight on to the narcissistic boss, which is a whole episode on its own, which is oh, we'll have to get you back for that one.
Speaker 2:Get out. Get out Because you'd rarely find them in your therapeutic space or contacting you for coaching. Yeah, exactly yeah. But you know, pay attention to what's going on around you. What I do say to leaders who are like you know, I really feel that you know people aren't on side my team team are on side, or that I'm being avoided, or it's like really watch and listen. When was the last time you had a conversation with, with your colleagues, the people that you're responsible for, you know, maybe ask the question are you getting the support, is the support from me that you need right now for this project? You would be amazed what a difference that can make. To somebody on your team just say you know, hey, I really noticed that you've got a lot of deadlines at the moment or under pressure. Is there anything you need from me right now that you're not getting?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, yeah, definitely. And it's quite simple to do, isn't it? And I suppose the other end of that is those bad bosses that actually know it but they can't get out of the habit of doing it because they've always done it that way. What would you say to them? There's a better way.
Speaker 2:What have you got to lose? Yeah, not working. Yeah, you know, and you only have to look at teams where there are bad bosses, you know there's high turnover around there. People don't stick it out, and that can speak volumes. And in order to make progress, you need a good team around you and that actually you understand well their strengths and their limitations and you play to those strengths and those limitations. Don't see yourself as the answer to everything you know. One of the issues that I think bad bosses have is they feel that they have to know everything and be right about everything. Yeah, true, actually, nothing's further from the truth. Take the you know. If there's an area that one of your team is brilliant at, celebrate it. Get them in. You'll make your life so much easier. So it does take a level of humility and the ability to to delegate and trust others to do their job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's very true. And, as you say, if we're going back to that first point, you raised that actually, were they trusted as young people or smaller people Were, they always had their trust broken, you can probably see that playing out. Therefore, that's why they are being how they're being, and I think that's the fascinating bit about it. Those behaviors do play out unless you have an awareness of it as well. And I think the other thing I just wanted to tap into there was how much of that is ego driven when that boss knows they are. I always think about those environments where everybody's clambering to be in that space. So when I think about, I suppose, the creative industry, the music industries, the film and television, people want to work there and you have a stream of people queuing up at the door. So that bad boss, I suppose ego gets in the way, because they know well they don't have to change because they've got 20 more people waiting to step into that person's shoes. That's just left. So what do we do?
Speaker 2:then, do you know? This is where our own personal empowerment, when we're in those environments I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that those behaviours are okay, but they are, as you said, in particular industries, a reality, and that's where our own self-care and our own ability to remind ourselves why we are in this particular role matters become critical. This is where goal setting is really critical. You know that we can put up with the worst days and the worst people when we've got an end goal in sight.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that is so important. So, when you think about passing on your words of wisdom and saying to people, okay, what piece of advice would you give them to take away? What would be your takeaway that they can go, so share your secret with our listeners about what would you? What's your takeaway for them, what's your call to action?
Speaker 2:Okay. So my call to action, debs, would be very basic ice Okay In case of emergency, so ice. So, first of all, you know, I is this, my stuff. That's what we touched on at the beginning. What are we bringing from our childhood into the here and now? Who does this person remind me of? Look at how they're making you feel, but also looking at who's turning up in them, which leads us to the C of our compassionate approach and our curiosity. Be curious, be playful with it, really note what's going on for you and then, finally, if things are really bad and your mental health is being impacted, exit E exit. Get out and have a plan and have a goal, and each day that you wake up, I'd invite you not to wake up with dread, but know that you're closer to your exit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that. I think, oh my God, that makes so much sense, wouldn't it To know that you say you've got a goal and you're aiming there's that end is in mind, isn't it? So you can normally we can cope with anything in relation to that.
Speaker 2:Oh my God this has been fascinating and it's such a hot topic and that I think we're gonna have to get you back. It would be a pleasure. I mean, I'm just like absolutely buzzing now because I'm thinking you know, oh, you know people, then exit strategies and and you know, with, yeah, the compassion that I know that people be going, oh, and really well, just remember, you know bitterness and hatred and all of that is like drinking poison and hopes your boss drops dead of it. So keep that energy for yourself, stay safe stay safe.
Speaker 3:I love that. And in case of emergency, press that button. I love that, I love that. And in case of emergency, press that button. I love that, I love that. So, and if people want to know more about the work that you do, how can they find you?
Speaker 2:Well, they can find me on counselling directory. So that's where you'll find all the accredited and registered psychotherapists and counsellors. So if they looked up Angie Carter therapist, they will find me on there. I'm based in Wadhurst, East Sussex, Yep.
Speaker 3:So are you on LinkedIn, or can people find you on Instagram or LinkedIn or Facebook if they've searched you? I'm working on it. You're working on that.
Speaker 2:I love that I'm working on it. I started my website, or singing dancing website, and my ambition far outweighed my talent oh my god, I love that, I think, also.
Speaker 3:But what you've said there is, finding you through that accredited space means that they're going to get someone to work with that has, you know, has done the work, has done the homework, you've worked on yourself as well through all of this, yes, and therefore your best place to support people. So we'll definitely signpost them to find you that way as well, angie, and then, by the time you're on next to talk about narcissistic and coercive controlling bosses, you may have your website ready to go as well. I love that. Fingers crossed. If not, we can find you in East Sussex, fingers crossed, oh my God. And it's been an absolute pleasure, and I think people will find this such as so interesting, because it is about you know, knowing your worth and your value and knowing that actually, you don't have to put up with a bad boss. Right, you can get out, you know, and it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:I mean, I did and I ended up working. I did some work in Blockbuster because at the time, because that was the only job I could get at the time but I just thought I need to get out, you know. So, yeah, but it's a big risk, isn't it? Yeah, and that's super, it's been willing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, and that's super. It's been willing, isn't it, to pick up those things that you perhaps wouldn't do, but it's important it is important, so I really want to say massive thank you.
Speaker 3:I've loved it and we'll definitely have you back to talk about the next session. So thank you for your time, angie and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Deb's pleasure to be here. All right, take care.
Speaker 3:Bye so law. What did you take away from?
Speaker 1:angie. Oh, I could have listened to her for hours. It was good, wasn't it? Oh, so good, debs, and you know, as always, your questions are just so well timed and it's a pleasure to listen to. And, um, I can't wait to have her back to talk about the various other neuroses and challenges we see in the workplace, and I take so much away from her ICE tool. Yes, so the I, what's the I stand for? Again, is this my stuff? Is this my stuff. Yeah, is this my stuff.
Speaker 3:Is this my stuff.
Speaker 1:The C, which is compassionate curiosity, so exploring what might be going, what we're going on. And then the E, if things are getting better. Exit, you know permission to exit, and I don't know. You know we like little things as little memory hooks I kind of was thinking about. You know, sometimes it's time to put your hat on Humility and trust. So the humility to be able to look within your own self and go. You know what's my role in all of this, if at all. And then the trust of if it's not right, it's okay to put yourself first, because if you're not going to put yourself first, who else is? And if the months are turning into years, turning into decades, then I think the main thrust we've got from this four part, five part focus miniseries is around. You know, if not now, when? Because the years keep rolling by and it's not OK to be in a scenario where you are feeling traumatised by the thought of going to work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100 percent, laura, and I know people worry about well, I've just stepped in or I can't leave because I've got other commitments and it's so hard to get a job. Stepped in, or I can't leave because I've got other commitments and it's so hard to get a job. And I think that's the bit where you know we certainly come to play to. You know, ask people to talk it through, because and like you know, as Angie was saying, if you get the opportunity to just have a conversation and recognize that it's not the right environment for you and that boss is not helping you in any way, shape or form, how to then get yourself out of it is something that you know we do a lot of work around with people, so they may not be making a decision, snapshot, decision immediately, but by having that conversation in the first place shows that there is there's a glimmer of light there that this does not mean this is their life forever with a trauma, you know, boss, and the trauma that sits around it, and not necessarily just waiting for that boss to move on, because that is also something people have seen happen in organizations, which is that the organization's problem to manage that person.
Speaker 3:My take is yes, because they're creating the culture and there's microcultures within cultures as well. So I think there is an accountability to go. Actually let's rather than move that bad boss in inverted commas on to some other department to cope with, we need to tackle that as well, because that's not living our values, it's not our behaviors, our attitude, and people shy away from that. So I think there's a lot to be said about owning it, I think. And you shape the culture for your organization, big, small or indifferent and if you're having people that are traumatised by one person, seriously, you know that's on your head, you know. So don't condone that behaviour, deal with it.
Speaker 1:And I think you know you and I can speak from hard won experience. You know there are times where you have to just think about money to come in to feed hungry mouths and there might just be you as the breadwinner that is, you know, solely responsible for financial security for yourself and others. So, you know, not all of us are in a situation where we can go right. That's it. I'm going to resign right now, but I think the sense of keeping your sense of empowerment, to know that you're in the exit stretch, you've made your decision. This place is not right for me. This is not good for my mental health or for my you know it's not sustainable. I now am, I'm looking towards leaving this role rather than feeling like I'm stuck and it might take you two years to exit.
Speaker 1:But those two years, knowing that you are already made a decision and you're on the way out, are going to be a lot more empowering than feeling like you're stuck and you've got no choices. So you know, I think, as Ange said, you know, not everyone has got the luxury to just click their fingers and go right, that's it. I don't like my boss, I'm off. But equally, to feel like you're stuck and there's no choice is a horrible situation to be in. So this goes out to anyone who's currently listening to this on the way into work, and you know who's currently listening to this on the way into work. And you know 90% of your hormones are there in your tummy. Is that what she said? If your tummy's going?
Speaker 3:yeah, that's giving you a warning sign. Yeah, explore it. I think people have got to listen to what their bodies are saying, and it's such a hard decision to make because of millions of other things that surround our lives. But having a conversation with a trusted ally can be the first step to identifying that one. You're not alone and that you know. You're just having some space to just explore what that means for you, and I cannot underestimate the power that that can have for someone. But, as you said, to give them back their power, sometimes that's maybe all they need, and then, before you know it, they've made decisions all over the place, and if we can provide that safe space for somebody to talk, that's what's really important and that's what Angie does, that's what we do, because for me, you shouldn't put up with stuff like that. It's just not good for you at all. So, yeah, so I think it was.
Speaker 3:I suppose my call to action would be get out of it. If it isn't right, get out. As you said, whether it takes you two years, but have that plan in place that says I'm not here forever. This doesn't have to be my life forever, but making sure that you're also doing stuff outside of work that does fill your purpose and your passions, so that you have a nice harmony going on. Work might be horrendous for you, but you've got lovely stuff that you're doing outside of work. You've got something to look forward to. That would be my call to action.
Speaker 1:Love it, debs. My share of the secret would be well, the fact that we've got overcoming bad boss trauma as one of our top five hot trends that we're seeing at this mid-decade culture roundup means that you're not the only one. So if you've got a friend or a colleague who's you know this is a relevant topic, get them to listen to this, and the whole purpose of this is to be a good life affirming reminder that you really matter and your happiness is important. And you know you staying stuck is just keeping that pattern as well. So you know it's not good for anyone. So, yeah, we hope you've enjoyed this and wait until you see what we got in touch for you for next week.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, this is a good day as well. Yeah, I love this one.
Speaker 1:So one of the scenarios was well, my boss is all right, it's just the team that are a nightmare. Yeah, so the third workplace reality that we're going to be focusing on next week, and we've got another gorgeous guest who is going to give their take on what are some realities around toxic team environments and what does that mean to then the need. What does that mean then, in order to kind of reduce it or to prevent it, so, when teams don't play nicely with each other, it, or to prevent it, so when teams don't play nicely with each other. So, really looking forward to that one, debs, because, as always, it's real life, people's stories of scenarios that can help, that can just be so useful when people are either wanting to overcome some of those similar challenges in their work life or they can see it around them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely Looking forward to that one, but in the meantime, have a great week, Laura.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, debs, absolutely you too, and I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 3:See you on the other side, love you, love you, bye.
Speaker 1:We hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secretsfromacoachcom, or follow us on Insta or Facebook. If you're a Spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacoachcom, and sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work.