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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
216. Essence of Successful Collaboration: Respect
In this third episode in our latest mini-series looking at the essence of success in 4 specific areas, this one is all about collaboration. A hot topic of our time, we see around us the one aspect that makes the difference: respect.
Originating from the Latin word ‘respectus’ meaning ‘to hold in regard’ could the magic spell of ‘respectus collaboratus’ be the levels of mutual respect in and between teams? We explore the principles for respect at work and how to role model this to others when they join a team to shift from them to us.
Taking a look at collaboration when working hybrid, we share practical tools to bring respect to everyday life in the small and big moments.
A useful listen for anyone wanting hints and tips for a cleaner working environment in their team.
Secrets from a coach thrive and maximize your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson Stavely of Phenomenal Training Debs.
Speaker 2:Law you all right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm doing really well. How's your week been? It's been full on working with lots of different people individuals and teams and it's been quite satisfying just seeing how useful people find having time together in a room to just have some time and space. And I'll tell you what's quite interesting is I think the impact of one of the many impacts of hybrid working is it opens up so many opportunities. But one of the things I think is easy to miss is just people having an awareness of what everyone else is up to in the team around them. And if you sort of think that you're the busy one and you're holding it all together and you don't know how everyone else's kind of workload is, then it's easy to almost get a little bit kind of caught up in yourself, even if you might be part of a really vibrant team, but just sort of getting a little bit kind of caught up in your own stuff and maybe not looking for opportunities to collaborate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is, I think that's so important to notice that and that's as you said, with the hybrid piece. That's what I think people are missing is that chance to just come together and, as you said, working with people and being able for them to see what everybody else is doing and how their backstories are and what they're having to be faced with, because you can reach out and have a little bit of mutual respect going on then for that person as well, because you can see it, whereas I think it's really hard to not see that, obviously when you're on a screen right, because you can't and you can't find the vibe or the energy and just sense that something's not quite going as well as it could be and it gets misconstrued and misunderstood and all of those missing bits, which doesn't help for, you know, creating a nice environment really.
Speaker 1:Which is why we thought, when we are looking at this current four-part focus, looking at the success essence behind some of those key moments, and so we've been looking at decision making and how the essence of that could be boiled down to one word confidence, how the essence of successful teams could be summed up in one word care and caring for each other. And in this episode we're going to be looking at what is it that is the essence behind successful collaboration, and could it be that one word that Aretha Franklin made so famous R-E-S-P-E-C-T, and having that respect. And you mentioned mutual respect. So we're going to use that as a way to just kind of get some fresh air to our thinking and, as always, ending with a call to action and a share the secret. So I guess, debs, first of all. So why the emphasis on collaboration? So what's your read of how important collaboration is, to be collaborative is going to be in the years ahead.
Speaker 2:I think it's a word that is banded around a lot at the moment. We've heard it more in the last probably two years than we've probably ever heard it before and I think the importance of it is how we are going to behave in groups well, and that making sure that we are not just about us as the individual, but actually the you know, being able to collaborate in, to be, if you like, outweighs that need to compete and survive, so that belonging, that's bringing people together, um, that ability to know what people are working on and and how can embrace difference, how we can make meaningful change because we are collaborating and sharing our thoughts and ideas and everything else that goes with it. So I suppose, as you always say, it's about creating that team edge which is what I know you always talk about as well, which I think is really important. To be able to do that when we you know, create the team edge, when we talk about, well, why does this team exist? What is its purpose? I think because that can make a big difference. But I think we have to go back to the fact it's really hard to collaborate really, really, really well, because you know we've been set up to work as individuals. We talk about the paradox of the individual, and I know we, because you know we've been set up to work as individuals. We talk about the paradox of the individual and I know we were. You know we've been talking about this for a little while now in some of our workshops when they're asking us to go in and work with a team who may be not as functioning as they could be, and you know, everybody, though, comes from that place of starting off as an individual.
Speaker 2:If you think, at school we learn in that group setting, but we are examined as individuals, and then, at work, we're recruited as an individual, and then, in many cases, we're rewarded for our individual efforts, so we get a bonus for hitting a particular target, and then we're being asked as well, we're being promoted, we're being led by individuals, but then we're put into a team, and then we wonder why it's so difficult to be able to work well as a team, because we just haven't got into the habit of collaborating. Upbringing can have a massive impact and influence our approach to that whole collaboration word, because if you were set up in a family environment where you might have been competing against your siblings, you know, and being played off one against the other. That's your first experience of what you know in theory how to collaborate or to be an individual and you'll carry that through with you into the world of work. So then we're asking people to collaborate or to be an individual, and you'll carry that through with you, um, into the world of work. So then we're asking people to collaborate more and you go yeah, but what's in it for me?
Speaker 2:And it has all this um confusion around it, I think, where people go well, I think I'm doing it, but I'm not so sure but being able to know how we can create the edge, as you always talk about making sure that we have a purpose as a team, making sure that we do know what our identity is and what makes us unique in the way that we bring people together. So that positive mindset, having the energy, being able to understand what motivates people, that can create that team identity. And then I think it links into that concept of knowing what our values and beliefs are and agreeing, if you like, how we're going to work around here. And we do a lot of work around that, don't we, laura? About?
Speaker 2:you know, how we're going to work together better, what standards, what behaviours will underpin the team's effort, not just an individual. Within that, and I think knowing, having that awareness of what others bring and knowing what people need, that mutual respect again, the being able to have that relatedness, that's even a word to create a sense of unit, can make a huge difference to people, which takes great conversations, challenging performances, you know, giving great feedback, making sure people are stretching regularly, reviewing plans and stuff like that, so we can consciously think different, so we can improve and learn by supporting each other's development and promotion but not going well, what's in it for me, and I think that's where collaboration can be misunderstood, because we're set up to work as individuals.
Speaker 1:I think that's a very interesting point about that and I know when I've seen you sort of deliver that bit before in workshops and it sure does get you thinking about how actually, if society kind of is grooming everyone to be individual and individual success, but then there's a workplace expectation that well, everyone's just going to kind of collaborate and that's going to be a default sort of norm, what I think is really practical just from a well, what do we sort of take from here is what might that mean in terms of sort of everyday kind of behaviours? So some of the things that we've seen work with teams is just even the sheer, the simple act of setting a working environment. So everyone get a post, you know how do you want to work today, and even though it might be a session that has, you know, with external facilitator, like one of our teams that are coming in, actually that then can become the rhythm that then that team then use to then have collaborative conversations moving forward. So if you know that actually there's some people there around the table who really want the detail, you want to understand the rigor and you're a bit more of a big picture person, you can view those behaviors as less rather than irritants getting in the way of progress. They are additives that then enable process and progress, because that unique chemistry is the reason why, you know, you get innovation, you get sort of care and support, so that's often quite a practical sort of exercise.
Speaker 1:Is just even that, you know, how do you want to meet together today? If you've got like two hours with 10 people, that's 20 working hours you've got. And actually how do we then ensure that all those people feel like they've got a, you know, a space at the table and, just very simply, a working environment can then open your eyes up to just different preferences. Take us through the I plus you plus, because when we were talking about respect which, by the way, when we were looking at, well, where's the background the origins of that word and respect, did you know, comes from the Latin word respectus, which literally means look at or regard, so having a regard for someone, so finding out how you like to work, is because I'm regarding you and I'm sort of looking at that. And then were laughing, weren't we thinking?
Speaker 1:it sounds like some harry potter spell it does respect us, collaborate us, and what might that mean in terms of the uh, yeah, the magic essence? Yeah, so take us through that, um, I plus you plus the respect triangle, because that always gets some fascinating conversation going about what it means for successful collaboration, with respect as that foundation. That's the core.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an oldie again, but a goodie, and I just love it, because when you say to people, how do you want to work together? Because you know people go well, well, we just will. I go, okay, but do you do it from a place of respect, and people look at you and go, well, yeah, of course I do. I say, but do you? You know? So we might question that, because that I plus you plus, as it gets called is around.
Speaker 2:I respect myself and I respect you, so that mutual respect is already there, which, in theory, creates a more of a win-win, more of a collaborative approach, as I'm going to understand things from your map of the world, you'll understand it from my map of the world. We'll have this mutual understanding of where we're both coming from, and then we can work together to move it forward with our own uniqueness and you know talents and all of that stuff. But that it can also play into that for what they call it's a win-win situation. So I respect myself and I respect you. I therefore value what I'm going to bring.
Speaker 2:I value myself, so I have a great level of self-awareness. I know what I'm good at. I know what I'm not so good at. But actually, unless I know that about you, then we can't work well and bring it all together as one. So that win-win situation is what it gets called. The other parts of that triangle and there is a false part. So I don't think you have a four-part triangle, so that's more of a square A cuboid A cuboid.
Speaker 2:Oh, a cuboid Is that it Is that right, oh, no, don't ask me love.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll take your word for it. Yeah, I did get a bit of people that are math specialists and they said technically it's rhombus.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right. Thank you for that feedback. Thank you, I'll take that.
Speaker 1:I'll receive it with respect.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'll respect. Well, yes, you, I'll mutually respect your knowledge over mine. So we have the I plus, you plus. So I respect myself and I respect you. But it can play out in different ways. So if you just take a moment and think about, if I respect myself so I plus, you minus, I respect myself but I don't respect you law, then what type of relationship is that it's?
Speaker 1:a parasitic parasitic.
Speaker 2:There we go, yeah, I'm all right, I don't respect you so I'm not gonna maybe listen, I may not take in what you have to say. I think I'm bigger, better than you are, and it's ego comes to play and that's real toxic. I'm just the bee's knees. Who do you think you are all of that horrendous behavior that we can see where ego plays out, because I respect myself more than you, so I'm not going to give you the time of day, I'm not going to maybe listen to what you have to say, even though you could be really right. My ego gets in the way.
Speaker 2:So that's not a great place to be and it can be quite a directive, telling, demanding, disrespectful place. Actually, I hate that when you see it and you know, just because I'm the boss type thing and you who are you, it's like you do not know who I am. You know it's a bit like that which you just think, oh, get a grip person, but anyway. But on the flip of that you can also have, so I don't respect myself, but I do respect you Law. So the I minus, you plus. So that type of relationship can be even more crazier than the other one because I'm like go, yeah, okay, then I'll do whatever you say. I'm quite small, quite meek, I haven't got my own thoughts, I haven't got my own opinion. I'm always going to be led by others and I'm going to give way to what they may be saying, especially if they're a bigger character, because I think, oh, you're so an expert, you must know so much more than I do. You've been doing this for years and who am I to question you? And that's just horrendous, and we've seen that across all levels. It doesn't apply to whether you're a leader, manager, whatever. We see this play out in different levels, in teams, and it's fascinating to watch that team dynamic then work their way through it. There is also that fourth one, as we said, which is a rhombus, I think, or something. It's a shape.
Speaker 2:Anyway, let's go with that um, which is I don't respect myself and I don't respect you either. So that's carnage on a page, right? Yeah, so that is all. How do we play out that and how do we recognize some of the behaviors that sit underneath those sort of um, different spaces, if you like, of you know that I plus you plus I respect myself and I respect you. That's a great place to work. That's from an assertive position. It's very, if you like, adult to adult if we're looking at it through that lens, but it's also a really healthy, buzzy, great place to work, collaboration all the way. I'm not going to over talk you or I'm going to listen. I'm going to take that feedback.
Speaker 2:It's just lovely whereas the others are really quite toxic, um, and people don't always recognize the impact that they are having and that I definitely that I don't respect you one that you know I am plus, you minus is it's just not a good place to be. And then people wonder why their teams are toxic, or they wonder why their people are leaving, um, because that person may have very little self-awareness. So it's quite an aggressive position to be in. Whereas that I don't respect myself, so I minus, you plus, but I do respect you. It's quite a passive role to play from that I place. I'm not good enough, maybe I can't, and it's very doubting, so it's a very passive place to be.
Speaker 2:So you can see that and that I minus and you minus. It's just like, wow, you know, let's get a grip here, both of us, um, but you see, it play out a lot and I think, just even thinking about it from that. Do you really respect that person? Or have you got a chip on your shoulder? Or do you generally respect yourself as well as them, and then you'll work well together? Or do you give them all the control and the power because you don't respect you, but you do respect them and then you'll work well together? Or do you give them all the control and the power because you don't respect you, but you do respect them, and it's it's that team dynamic that goes on with.
Speaker 1:That is fascinating, um, and it causes loads of conflict if we're not careful it's interesting when you were, just when you were talking about the I minus you minus my kind of instant sort of vision in my mind was and that's what then gets you had a horrendous customer service experience.
Speaker 1:So whether that's an internal customer experience of them lot over there demanding it from there but I don't know what I'm doing either and then that's just where you then have Low quality.
Speaker 1:You know that could have all sorts of implications, whether it's over quality service, health and safety. But it was interesting just when you were talking about that fourth position, which I hadn't heard before, was actually where we've had conversations or seen it ourselves of just there not being that inter-team respect. They're not being that inter-team respect and I think that's something that has prompted some interesting conversation within teams where this isn't just kind of one-on-one and those sort of touch points within a team. It's also that I plus you plus triangle, how teams talk about other teams and then if you are onboarding new starters to an organization and if you're onboarding them into your team, say no, don't trust that team. They'll throw you, you know, under the bus rather than kind of help out Right from the start. You actually might be influencing a fresh perspective already with biases against that team or towards that team because that sort of lack of respect coming out of the language.
Speaker 1:And it's been. I've had some interesting, you know, sort of people have the petty job of oh my god, you know, because they might in them, in their own minds, go. Of course I work with respect within the team, but it's when you don't start saying and how do you talk about other teams with new starters?
Speaker 2:yeah, oh, yeah, I think the I think you're right law and the other thing that comes into that, which we sometimes do, especially with new managers. We always ask them this question do you want to be respected or liked? And when you think about, oh, um, because ultimately we all want to be liked, right, we just do and we want to, but we're not going to be liked by everyone. And as we step into that, you know we that first manager role that we have. It's a real battle for some people because their natural driver is to want to be liked. And I said, do you want to be liked or respected? Because it's very slightly different behaviours there, because if you want to be liked, you could be playing that I don't respect myself enough, but I do will give all the respect to you or the team. So, and that's because I want you to like me, whereas actually you've got to like yourself first anyway, which is the I plus bit I respect myself, I like myself, I love the values I have, I know what I'm here to do. That will get you away from that. But if you don't even know that about you and this is always an interesting conversation I know when we were rolling out a big program.
Speaker 2:That was the one question that created quite a lot of debate when we said would you want to be liked or respected? Um, and they go, oh, uh, well, respect, because I'm now a manager, and you go, okay, but what does that look like, you know? So we would question them to really, underneath the surface of how do you show up? Because that's what it's about really. It's the impact to you, what impact you want to have on others, how do you find out as much as you can about others first, so you can adapt and flex your style to get the best out of those people, and it's from a place of mutual respect. You know, I'm going to learn from you. I can teach you something and you can teach me something, but it's a real, um, it's a real complex place to stay, I think, because it we love drama right um, and there's just a check right, just to check before I start summarizing on the wrong way.
Speaker 1:am I right in thinking respectability is respecting is what you'd want over likability? Because am I right in thinking likability can come and go? It's a bit flighty One person's overtalker is someone else's great storyteller, so likability is a bit flimsy as a relationship kind of foundation, whereas respect is. You might understand that, acknowledge that person has a very different way of going about it, but they stand true to what they say.
Speaker 1:they're going to do their, whatever their values are, they're consistent yeah, so the respect angle gives you sustained relationship foundation to your respect us the regard for someone the regard the regard for somebody.
Speaker 2:that's what it goes back to. Is that, yeah, the regard for someone, the regard, yes, the regard for somebody? That's what it goes back to. Is that, yeah, I regard you in this way or that way, or because of what you bring. I might admire what you do and go, oh my God, what can I learn from you as well? So, whilst I'm not taking that passive place, I can see it as we got mutually beneficial. Because what do you call that when you talk about the relationship there, when we're mutually beneficial, what's that Symbiotic? Is it symbiotic?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're mutually beneficial.
Speaker 2:Beneficial yeah.
Speaker 1:So the symbiosis, that's the word.
Speaker 1:Yeah so that symbiotic relationship, dev, just as a bit of a sort of curveball only because we've seen, um, we've seen organizations that when, uh, when everything's going well and, uh, the money's coming in, or or the um patients, uh, you know that all your, all your kpis are being hit, then maybe it's kind of easy sort of to collaborate when everything is all on a high. I think it's been quite interesting looking at those organizations that have gone through some really tough challenges and maybe there's been rounds of redundancies and people have acted and behaved in slightly different ways. What advice would you give to anyone that is now having to maybe resurrect a working relationship with someone with whom there hasn't been the best interactions, maybe at some point in the past. But now, for whatever reason, that person has floated up now in your world and actually there's an expectation to collaborate. So what would be some advice of? We're not fresh, random people who now need to collaborate. There's baggage, there's beef.
Speaker 2:There's history.
Speaker 1:What would be a sort of a start for 10, for if you're thinking in the year ahead, actually I know me and that person need to work closer with each other, but we go back and with some of that, it's not all good experiences we've got with each other. So, yeah, how common is that at the moment and what might be some things that might help?
Speaker 2:So we can't change the past, but we have to work together now and we have to respect what we each bring now, so that ways of working and recontracting, as we always call it, acknowledging that maybe we didn't get off to the best of starts way back when, but now, where we are at now, we are aiming for the same thing, we're heading in the same direction. We still have the same objective or goal to hit. So, together, how can we make it work? I always say to people you're not expected to go home and love these people and live with them. You just have to work well with them.
Speaker 2:So it is about recontracting. How do we want to work together, moving forward, acknowledging that it may not be the best, you may not be the bestest of friends, you may not go out and socialize and go on holiday together, hopefully you may not go and live with them, but there is still this element of, if you like, cleaning it and keeping it clean and creating clarity around the expectations. What can I do for you? What can you do for me? It comes back to that understanding each other in the moment, because you both would have changed over that time and calling it, and it's a difficult conversation for some, especially if they've had it's been a traumatic experience and suddenly they're either being line managed by that person or they are now the line manager of that person. So I think it's really worth just going right.
Speaker 2:What's my plan? How do I have a good conversation with this person? To just reset our boundaries, reset expectations, reset the contract of how we're going to work together, so that we've created clarity, um, and we know what's expected of both of us, and you might become friends at the end of it. But there is an understanding of respect and I think there's always one person that will probably see the benefit of that before the other person, um, and that's always an interesting dynamic to watch. Suddenly I'm gonna I'm not giving up anything, so I'm not going to placate you, I'm not going to bow down to you, I'm just going to be very congruent with who I am and set it out in an adult to adult way, because we have to get the same job done yeah but a lot of people avoid that conversation law oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, linking back then to the hybrid bit, it's easier to avoid those conversations if you're not standing there together, you know, waiting for everyone else to arrive in the meeting, you know you can just have your camera off and yeah. So I, I think, uh, I, yeah, I think you'll always see one person I think so, law.
Speaker 2:But one person will always recognize the, the value of letting go of their I plus my ego. Um, because ultimately you're saying, well, I don't still don't respect you actually. Um, and sometimes people say you have to earn respect. Um, some people say you have to give respect. So, again, this is always a good debate question. But, um you this? The more emotionally I'm going to say this, the more emotionally I'm going to say this, the more emotionally intelligent individual will recognize that they need to make the adaptation and that it's for the mutually beneficial outcome and therefore I will learn or find out what bit of that person I actually do respect and what they do bring. So I have to take myself out of it to look in at what can they bring and what do they bring. Why are they in the job that they're doing? Because they're bloody good at it. So I need to look for that. So I need to lift myself up and out and look back in, and you always get one person that gets that quicker than maybe the other.
Speaker 1:Well, as the Harry Potter spells respect us, collaborate us.
Speaker 1:You know, it's those ingredients that sound so simple, but it's putting them together and creating that mix, and I think it's been a really interesting conversation. Looking as part of our four-part focus, looking at the essence of success, whether that is teamwork, whether that is decision-making. This one has been looking at successful collaboration wrapped up in that one word respect. We'll do a call to action and share the secret in a moment, but I am really looking forward to the final one, not only of this four-part series but of this calendar year as well, which will be looking at the essence of successful leadership with a little L. So no matter where you are sitting in an organisation, inside or outside one, we're going to be looking at what is the essence of success around leadership with a little L or big L, which we've boiled down to relationships. So, dev, before we kind of get ready for that one, so what is going to be your call to action? To convert this from maybe lots of sort of thought-provoking ideas into what might be a call to action?
Speaker 2:I think for me, my call to action and I'm going to do it from my position, if I respect myself, I know what I bring. I know I'm not from an egotistical point of view. I know what I'm good at, I know what I'm not good at. So my call to action would be to find out more about the individual or the team members that I don't know anything about, and then I can understand things from their map of the world which enable me to then adapt in a way that creates something that is mutually respectful. So I'll be me, but I'll also take time out. So take time to find out about the other people. That would be mine, the relationship piece, which I know is going to link into next week, but it's all about building those relationships respectfully, respectfully, to then have something to regard.
Speaker 1:Hold your regards so yeah, nice, one nice yeah, um, my share, the secret would be got a friend who is currently having a bit of a challenge with working with um, either existing or sort of new pool of people and, uh, it's been made clear that they need to collaborate and that might not be easy. Get them to listen to this and they can realise they're not the only one. And, as always, we hope it just gives a little bit of cheer, a little bit of kind of theory that mix in with practical, because not everyone is lucky enough to have workplace learning and development in their teams. So our mission is to be here cheering you along, along your side, in a non-judgmental way, but always with a call to action and just some thoughts to enable you to shine.
Speaker 1:So, Debs, I hope you have a shiny week ahead you too, lor Keep sparkling, I will. Respect us, collaborate us I love that.
Speaker 2:I'm going to think about that. Now I can have this image and this picture I'm going to get me warmed out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or it's an excuse to go shopping again, don't you think? I love that?
Speaker 2:Have a lovely week, you too. See you later See.
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