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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
217. Essence of Successful Leadership: Relationships
In this fourth and final episode in our latest mini-series looking at the essence of success in 4 specific areas, this one is all about leadership. Whether with a 'big L' ie you have leadership in your job title, or 'little l' -the million small acts of leadership that happen every day in both work and personal lives. People ask you for advice, help, support or guidance? You're a leader my friend!
Having been in-room with over 1,700 leaders in 2024, we can summarise what sets the successful leaders apart from the rest: the ability to create and sustain effective relationships. Dialling up emotional intelligence in those moments where it would be so easy to vent, rage, process externally or unsettle people with passing wobbles - being able to take a breath and be intentional about the desired impact is what makes the difference.
We discuss the fine line between authenticity and carelessness and practical tips for taking the lead in the big and small areas of life. An ideal listen for anyone debating to take a leadership role and needs a bit of reassurance how leaders come in all shapes and sizes. And you don't need to have the word leader in your job title to be a successful leader. People ask you to help organise events? You're a leader my friend!
This is the final episode of 2024, we are hugely grateful for your support and love. We are taking a week off and will be back in action from Fri 10th Jan 2025 with brand new topics and guests to support and cheer you along the ever-evolving world of work.
Secrets from a coach thrive and maximize your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson Stavely of Phenomenal Training.
Speaker 2:Debs Law, are you all right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am feeling really sparkly and twinkly and reflective at this end point in this year. How about you?
Speaker 2:I think it's the same Law. On one hand, it seems to have gone super, super, super, super quick, yet on the other hand, when we look back and see what we have, gone super, super, super, super quick. Yet on the other hand, when we look back and see what we have actually achieved, it's a lot that we have done in a year and it's incredible and I'm always really grateful that we've had that opportunity to work across so many different people and industries and just being in rooms with people or on Zoom or wherever. Yeah, it's a real good achievement to just stop and go, wow, look what we have done.
Speaker 1:It's amazing and the we there absolutely I mean just the collaborations and the support and just the amazing people that we've had. You know, ourselves and the team have just had such a fortunate you know encounters this year. It's been brilliant, yeah very lucky.
Speaker 1:Really lucky and I guess what we wanted to do in this fourth and final episode in our four-part focus looking at the success essence yes. So where we've looked at a range of things from essence of decision making yeah Essence of successful teams, essence of great collaborations this one is looking at what's the essence of great leadership and I want to hear your thoughts on why we've called it leadership with a big or little L. So explain that and then we'll do a bit of a kind of an explainer and then a bit of an overview of some takeaways. So what's this idea about leadership with a big L or a little L?
Speaker 2:The big L is, I think, when you've got it in your job title and the little L is the fact that we are all leaders in some form of another, depending on you know what we do. You don't have to be a leader job title to be a leader and therefore that little l is to say that you still have a massive impact on people. You still involve people. You engage with people even though it's not in your job title, but you're very good at leading projects people. You lead your family. Maybe at home you leave your friends. You know there is so much that you do without even realizing. So, for me, we are all leaders of our lives. Um, how we go about it will be different, um, but I think we don't have to have it as a job title to know that we can be a leader and an inspiration to others.
Speaker 1:Do you remember that conversation we had with that amazing person? That was in a session we were running and we'll do a bit of a roundup of sort of who we've got to interact with this year in a moment. But I remember, um, they were saying to us oh no, I couldn't go for a promotion as a, as a senior leader, oh no, I just don't have that leadership experience. And then they go on to tell us that they've got eight children, they run a social group, they're in charge of all of the charity. You know kind of Macmillan Fridays, and you think what?
Speaker 2:You are a leader, my friend.
Speaker 1:It's just sometimes there's this smoke and mirrors that is put up around this being a leader, as if you've suddenly got to be perfect or you've got to be a different type of person and actually that leadership, those kind of acts of leadership in that moment could be. You're just there on the plane and you happen to be the one by the emergency exit and suddenly you have to take charge in that moment. And that's the description I've sort of had in my mind sometimes is even those people that are just they describe themselves as reluctant leaders.
Speaker 2:They just can see a challenge and they've just got to go and do something about it because they know they can make stuff better and I think, think, and that's what's important is that we have all got it within us. And to direct, to coach, to mentor, to support, to guide, to nurture, to care, they're basic human skills really. And yeah, we just happen to package it up as, yeah, you're either a leader because you've got leader in your title, or you're a leader with a small L because you're doing it anyway. So, yeah, I love it. The same skills apply.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we just did a little roundup of well, actually, how many leaders have we had the fortune of working with this year, whether it's kind of one of us directly together or in our team and it was quite remarkable actually when you started to tot it up and then, which is what then boils down to, what we have observed is just the essence that connects all of those leaders we've seen, in all shapes and sizes, in terms of what makes them successful ones. So, devs, give us a bit. What was the rough tot up? Approximate amount we came to.
Speaker 2:So this was just in-room people. This was when, in in real life people in a room with us. In the room with them, we had around 1700 people that we'd impacted in the past, in like in 2024, which is like crazy. When we started to add it up go, oh yeah for better or worse.
Speaker 2:You can ask them to engage with our madness. Maybe I'm thinking, oh okay, but yeah, that's incredible when you think about and they're just the people that we've done in room, not those that we might have done online and virtual workshops and um, yeah, that's just every physically being in a room with people 1700, which is a lot of leaders who have all got that leadership capability with a small L or a big L, and they've just been amazing. But we did say there was one major thing that they had in common, wasn't it Laura?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Go on, then tell us.
Speaker 1:That is the ability to have great relationships with the people in which you work with, and that doesn't mean everything has to be hunky-dory and smooth running all the time. In fact, some of the best leaders have been able to lean into those challenging and that doesn't mean everything has to be hunky-dory and smooth running all the time. In fact, some of the best leaders have been able to lean into those challenging, really difficult scenarios that some of them have been faced with and just had a compassion and human first in terms of having those good relationships. And yeah, I don't think I've ever sort of seen that. You know, when people say what does it mean to be a good leader? They sort of sometimes go we've got to be strategic, got to be this and that. Actually you've got to be nice human.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's relationships to be relatable to be able to carefully nurture relationships, particularly if there are some. There's trust that's been broken in that organization. You might have inherited stuff and I guess what sort of excited us about preparing for this episode is I bet you've that everyone's sort of listening has got relationships in their lives and we've either learned the hard way or the easy way how important it is to nurture those things and lean into the challenges and that that skill set apply that in as a leader and you're already, um, you know, uh, going to be more successful. Because the definition of a leader is you've got a follower and and you know people. To create great followers, people have got to believe in you, they've got to trust you and they've got to know that you're being real from a relationship point of view.
Speaker 1:So we just thought that was a really nice way to wrap up this year 2024, whenever you happen to be listening and almost a bit of an inspiration for anyone out there that's toying with the idea of shall I Shart and I oh no, leaders, don't look like me, or I'm not a leader or I don't come from a family where people are senior leaders. But actually get over that because that's historically future, looking forward. It's going to need leaders who are able to relate with people from the front list of the front line to the back of the back line investors. You're going to need to be able to connect relationships, and those are those everyday skills that we have to practice every day anyway.
Speaker 2:So why not? You go for that position? Yeah, and I think that's the thing. What we've seen is, you know you're not a copycat of somebody, of somebody else, somebody else. You, you might have role models that you aspire to be like, but actually you still have to bring yourself into that, because you know people want you to be authentic, and that's the word we've used a lot, and when we question people and say so, what do you mean by being authentic? And it's always around. It has to connect your heart. Mind and soul have to be of one so that you are congruent with everything about who you are and what you bring, and with your purpose. And that's why people small leaders you know little l leaders, not small leaders, little l leaders, big l leaders um, those are great have all worked on understanding what their role is and where they fit and what their purpose is.
Speaker 2:And it's always, I suppose, that you can't quite touch it. Is that intangible. I'm doing it because I want to make a difference and you go, distill that down. What does that actually mean? In'm doing it because I want to make a difference and you go, we'll distill that down. What does that actually mean in reality? And it's really hard to actually um to to come up with one thing that means I'm going to make a difference, because it has so many um different avenues and it has so many different things because it comes from you, um, and none of us are the same person. So I think that's something to always remember. You bring you, you might learn from the good and you might learn from the rubbish people that you've met, but you still make it yours and are congruent with who you are, with your values and purpose in life.
Speaker 1:I think it's really interesting that bit about being authentic, because it's that balance between so let's say that you are a leader big L, little L and there is some stuff going down in your organization and it's impacting you. Do you pretend everything's all right and smile and wave and say to everyone, oh no, everything's fine, but you know everyone can tell there's a facade. Or do you just let it all out and you vent and you process, live in front of your people and I guess so much about life, um now, and whether you're a leader or a formal or informal. Is that balance? So I guess it's being real and authentic, yeah, and yet mindful of the impact you're having on those people in the room at that moment?
Speaker 2:definitely which is how emotionally intelligent are you really comes back to that whole piece around EI, um, and how aware are you of yourself and what impact you have on others, um, how you manage your emotions through that and regulate your emotions, because, yeah, if we all just went around maybe saying exactly what we thought, and you know that might not go down well. So it's all about your levels of emotional intelligence, and I know we always bang on about that law, don't we? But I think it was Daniel Goldman's quote that says 80% of your success will be based on your emotional intelligence and the relationships you build because of that. And that's always when we ever put that up. People go. What do you mean? I go? 80% is because of you. You know not what you do or how you are, because everybody enters into the world of work at a certain IQ level, but what differentiates you is your levels of emotional intelligence, or common sense, as somebody once told me. So, yeah, which is true, and we see that all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because if I can predict how you're going to be, rather than moody, then I'm much more confident to place my trust in you. If I don't know actually are they going to blow hot or cold today, because there's not much emotional consistency, then that's going to impact whether I have conversations with you or not, because I'm not going to be able to predict that. It's an interesting one. I've shared this story before, but I remember seeing a CEO of a large insurance company at this conference basically tell the room yeah, I am a bit worried about the impact AI is going to have on the insurance industry and sort of left it there.
Speaker 2:And that was it.
Speaker 1:And that's where I learned in that moment there's authentic, but authentic isn't just. I'm just going to talk about the problem. Authentic then would have been there's authentic, but authentic isn't just, I'm just going to talk about the problem. Authentic then would have been there's a problem, everyone, and all it needed was one more sentence, which is but I'm sure, together with the intelligence in the room, we'll be able to work our way through it. It was missing this five second bit at the end, not to say there is a problem, but don't worry about it. There is a problem, but I'm sure between us we're able to work it out, to send that message of hope. And it was in that moment thinking, oh, my goodness, like that is actually what it means to be inspiring leader is do I frighten people or do I alert them to what's out there but reassure them with we'll have a plan or we're coming up with a plan. And that was, for me, a really interesting insight into what does it mean to be an authentic leader.
Speaker 1:It's not just going around blurting out how you feel really inside, because how you feel one day, one sleep might transform. You know, no feeling is final, which is why I think you've got to tread carefully using other people to process your emotions unless it is professional a professional is able to do that or a trusted advisor or a confidant. Because sometimes you can't trust those emotions, debs, can you? Because now you might feel one day might be completely different the next, and if I've just spoken to 100 people at a quarterly catch up, how I was feeling on a Monday it might have changed in the Friday after. And then that's where people start to lose trust. Yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:Oh my God you're so right than where people start to lose trust. Yeah, a hundred. And then, oh my God, you're so right, laura, because I think that's why we have to check in with ourselves, and we would do that regardless to go. Actually, how am I feeling today? You know that whole lovely check-in. Actually, you know what I'm not feeling great.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I can either bring everybody down with me or I can just be honest to say, look, it's not been a great day. I know we've got loads to do, so let's have a look at how we can move it forward together. It's lifting it back up into the action, orientated, without sitting and swimming in all of the stuff, and there is a time and a place to just go blah, but that's with your trusted sources, not just a hundred people that are looking at you to be inspired or create the energy or the vision or the passion. And, yeah, because you can influence a room and you have a massive impact on people. So I think your intent has to be the right intent.
Speaker 2:Is my intent here, to be honest? Is it transparent? Is it courage? Is it bravery? Is it what? Is it? What's my intent? Rather than just go blur, um, because actually that might not be appropriate for this audience right now. It doesn't mean it won't ever be, but it's being mindful, as you said, of the impact that what do I want to have, the impact to be, what do I want people to walk away from that meeting or that conversation or that conference and thinking or knowing, um, and if I, I'm the one in control of that, I can make or break it because of the way I haven't regulated myself.
Speaker 1:Really, what's it the car covers on his speaker stagecraft program. It's what do I want people to think, feel, do yeah, as a result, yeah, as a result of this.
Speaker 2:Yes, this presentation moment yeah this, this interaction moment, yeah, yeah, no, feel, do, yeah, and that's, and that's the same in anything. And that's why I think you can be a leader with a big l or a little l, because if you stop and just think for a moment, what do I want the audience to know, feel and do as a result of our interaction? That's a great framework to just move through a conversation with and still be sorry. The cat just thought why would I go? Hello, pussycat, um, how, um, yeah, how you're going to be. That's your intent, because if your intent is to be crazy, random, running around like a lunatic, then guess what. That's what your audience will know and they feel, and they will then do and then follow your leads if you like. So it's always checking in with yourself first oh, love it yeah devs.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really interesting point. You were saying um about that in terms of the, the mindfulness of it, um from a relationship point of view. So, um, just to do a little clang moment, we've, um, we've had an interesting year from a podcast perspective. We are apparently in Buzzsprout's top 25% of podcasts at the moment.
Speaker 2:I know that's mad, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we are podcast with a big L but we feel like little L. But anyway, there we go and we've apparently hit how many countries 74 countries we have been listened to in Wonderful.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, isn't it? I don't think I could even name 74 countries we have been listened to in Wonderful. That's amazing, isn't it? I don't think I could even name 74 countries, which is probably more about my level of standard of geography than anything else.
Speaker 1:But how bad is that, unless that's one family member of ours going on a cruise?
Speaker 2:Oh damn, that's got out Dialing in, Dialing in on the various servers as they go Going on the cruise around the world. I love that, yeah, but how cool is that though?
Speaker 1:law 74 countries yeah right, debs, what I've just thought of what our ambition should be go on for next year.
Speaker 2:What is it?
Speaker 1:to have an astronaut listening to one of our episodes okay, let's put that as one of our goals.
Speaker 2:Let's put that out there. Okay, let's send it out. We've done 74 countries.
Speaker 1:right oh yawn, oh the globe. God been there, done it.
Speaker 2:Now we want to hit space.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay let's put it out there and let's see what we can do. Wonderful, yeah, when you think also do.
Speaker 2:Wonderful, yeah, when you think also lord, when you think how many downloads that we had in 2024 again, we're not. We don't normally go. Oh my god, this is what we did. But it just blows my mind that people like we've had 15 000 downloads as of the sort of december, mid-december mark, um, and you just think that's just in 2024. That is crazy. Can't get my head around it. Let alone where we are at in our total downloads, which is nearly 50,000, isn't it? That doesn't tell you how many people listen on silent.
Speaker 2:Or just fast forward.
Speaker 1:Turn that volume knob down.
Speaker 2:Oh God, it's them banging on about leadership again. But they're still listening somewhere.
Speaker 1:They are still listening somewhere. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's just who would have thought right, I know, I know, we're very privileged.
Speaker 1:We're not far off. 50,000 downloads, wow, yeah, it's great. And, of course, linking it, shoehorning it back into relationships, debs, it's the you know the aspect in terms of what I'm sure we'll come up with a couple of you know things to consider from a relationship point of view. But I think that's just what's been really glorious about this podcast collaboration is those amazing speakers and guests that we've had, and to listen to real life people talking about real life experiences, everything from toxic teams, overcoming bad boss traumas, dealing with the realities of inclusion. You know, in the moment We've just had some really, yeah, really fantastic guests and, as I've been planning our next year's program, we've got guests ahoy all lined up for that. So that's going to be brilliant and keeping with this four week or five week part mini series, and then it just keeps things a bit fresh and you know it means that we can get a bit of kind of a pace to it all as well. So back to this one Deb's relationships.
Speaker 1:So what would be some do's and don'ts, that just as we wrap up this and obviously we'll end on our trademark call to action and share the secret but what would be some things? And maybe it links to the emotional intelligence bit, but what would be some things to consider when, let's say, someone is toying with the idea of moving into leadership and if actually, in our experience, it's the art of relationships that actually is going to be the difference, with all the wonders of AI, you can offload some of that document writing. You know there's more and more ways to do that. So if that's something that's inhibiting someone going for something, actually a lot of that paperwork aspect has been processed out anyway. It's that in that moment do people relate with me and can I relate with them? So what would be your kind of roundup of some good things to focus?
Speaker 2:on and consider and to avoid.
Speaker 2:And to avoid. I think my things to consider would be how can you be visible, not just, you know, hide behind a screen, but be visible out there, chatting to people, getting to know people, I think, listening, god, please listen, um, and have that level of empathy to be able to understand it from that person's map of the world, not just your own. So creating um, we only have our own perception, but there may be many others, so how do you you find that out? So for me, it's about being curious and inquisitive and, I suppose, thinking about that understanding and that having a level of care. I think that's what you've got to. I always say, you know, you cannot be with people if you don't like people. If you don't like people, don't become a people person, people manager, because that's what the world revolves around is connection and, yeah, being visible.
Speaker 2:I think my watch-outs would be don't get complacent. Don't think you're the best of the best at what you're doing, because you're not, I think also, think that you can't learn new things. Don't do that because you can. What else would be my don't Ego? Leave it at the door. It's not about you. What else wouldn't? I say Just, don't be rude and disrespectful, disrespectful, really. I'm sure there's more, but they're my lists that have just popped into my head, as you've asked me that well, um, I think it's a great list, debs.
Speaker 1:And just in case there are any little ears listening to this, I'll replace a certain word that's a four-letter word beginning with d with the animal duck. So what about that session we ran where, basically, this woman has said well, to be honest, I just think leadership boils down to one phrase don't be a duck. And everyone went you're absolutely right. And we said well, we can't, we can't write that on the flip chart and photograph it as part of the workshop takeaways. And they said you can, if all 24 of us write it. They went right, uh, yeah, you know those kind of. If you're surrounded by sort of duckish leaders and there's lots of duck behavior going on around, then just even that simple act of actually I'm not going to be a duck in this scenario could be uh, could be the biggest difference. I think it's just a moment of caution, because everything you were saying around, the things to consider like being visible, just want to balance that with, and you don't need to pretend to be an extrovert if you're actually more of an introverted leader.
Speaker 2:You can still be visible as both because you can still have a quiet presence, a gracefulness about you that's not screaming down the corridor, running a million miles, jumping up like a lunatic. You can still have that gracefulness about you that's not screaming down the corridor, running a million miles, jumping up like a lunatic. You can still have that gracefulness, as I think that just flows through and that's what people are attracted to. I suppose because you just have great presence and you're very graceful in how you do things yeah, it could be.
Speaker 1:if your preference isn't standing there in front of lots of people, but you sort of have to do it, then it might mean that you top and tail an event and then you create the airtime for key members of your team to have that airtime, if actually if they're with that. So I think the visibility is also enabling your people to be visible means, by very nature you're visible as well, so it doesn't always have to be you at the front, sort of all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good catch, but enabling others to sort of get out there. What do they say? Great leaders create great leaders. Is that?
Speaker 2:right, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Who's great?
Speaker 2:great, even more great leaders Something like that I can't remember the exact quote. But yeah, it is that. It's not all about you, yeah.
Speaker 1:Don't be the duck in the room. And if you can't be the duck in the room and if you can't spot the duck, it might be you. So just do a little mirror moment, check in that moment check in on that one.
Speaker 2:How aware are you of yourself and the impact you're having?
Speaker 1:yeah, so as a call to action dev yeah what.
Speaker 1:What we've uh kind of developed. Uh, you know, all unintentionally, he's all stumbled along the way, but we have kind of practice makes permanent. And now part of one of our things is we like to have a call to action. So along this kind of conversation there's a bit of purpose and a bit of thrust to it and a bit of a call to action and then a share the secret. So if this has got you thinking, there might be someone else in your work or home life that you think. Actually I think they might enjoy this as well.
Speaker 1:So I think one of our kind of main takeaways we wanted from this one is sometimes people shy away from going for leadership roles because there's an assumption that there's this whole type of person only that can be a leader. Actually, what we've experienced from all those hundreds of people that we've seen is leaders come in all shapes and sizes. One size fits one, and as much variety and diversity as there is there out in the workplaces. You need that in your, in your leaders as well, and if it were to be boiled down to one essence of success, it probably could be summarized as relationships being able to make and maintain great relationships in whatever way you do it. So what would be your call to action? Debs to end the year on a high.
Speaker 2:Oh, my call to action would be to know that you have enough information to hand at that time when you need it, and to trust yourself that you know the no.
Speaker 1:Love it, debs. Well, I've got a bit of a cheeky. Naughty, share the secret and then I'll do a sort of a straight one.
Speaker 2:No, well, I've got a bit of a cheeky naughty, share the secret, and then I'll do a sort of a straight one.
Speaker 1:Go on, that'll be you, no? So let's say there is a duck of a leader in your life. Maybe you send this to them. Get them to listen in, get them to listen in and then say, oh, I didn't mean to send that one, Sorry yeah.
Speaker 2:I meant the other one, the other one, the other one About saboteur and toxic bosses. Oh, damn.
Speaker 1:But, yes, genuinely share the secret so you might have a mate in your network who you know would just make the most fantastic leader. But they've just sort of procrastinated, they've shied away from it a bit. Get them to listen to this, and if our roundup of 1,700 leaders that we have seen face-to to face in a room between us all has shown, then you know that's pretty sturdy evidence that actually it doesn't require a certificate, it doesn't require a certain background or education. It's the ability in that moment to be able to make and maintain great relationships, and I bet your friend is brilliant at that. So get to listen to this and it might fire up some new year intentions.
Speaker 2:Nice one. I like that, laura. And then, yeah, this is when are we back? Because this is our last one, isn't it? So we're back in a couple of weeks, aren't? We we're taking a bit of a break to get our planning sorted.
Speaker 1:Loving your attention to detail there. Devs, we're back.
Speaker 2:Some point soon. Some point soon. Yeah, we don't know when, but we are, we're back in whenever it is next year.
Speaker 1:We're taking a week off, so our next episode will be Friday, the 10th of January 10th of January or whenever you get to listen to this. Yeah, so it'll still be in the same sequence, but it's going to be a new topic. It's going to be a new topic. Yes, yes, and this appeals to all you astronauts out there who are looking for.
Speaker 2:Some light listening when you're floating around in outer space.
Speaker 1:Looking at those wonderful things. And they think, oh my goodness, if that's what's going on in the world of work down there, I'm going to stay up here.
Speaker 2:Thank, you Get out of the way. Yeah, I love that. Oh, it's been so cool. As you said, the topics we've covered have been really diverse and they've been given to us as well by other people that have said oh, it'd be great if you could talk about. So, yeah, thanks to everyone who's done that and the guests and just having this time to just chat about stuff. I think it's just been a real privilege to do it.
Speaker 1:So, bring on next year, but have a good festive season law and be merry and bright and sparkly oh, thank you, debs, and you too, and look after yourself everyone out there because there's only one you and it's really important that you feel as good as you can.
Speaker 2:So um love it, devs see you on the other side. See you on the other side. Yes, alright, love you.
Speaker 1:Bye we hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secretsfromacoachcom, or follow us on insta or facebook. If you're a spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacoachcom. And sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work. Bye.