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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
218. Reduce Workplace Drama - Less Snakes, More Ladders
As January 29th marks the new Chinese Year of The Snake, this new 4-part series explores how to reduce drama in our work lives. The Snake is celebrated for being the spirit of transformation and charm - with the gift for shedding old habits to make way for new ones. Is it time to step up and away from the drama or games in your work?
In this first episode we take a big picture look at drama at work - how to spot it, how to avoid playing a role in it and most importantly: practical tips for not getting caught up in the gameplay. Lots of transferable examples to refresh your intention for the year ahead, plus useful ideas to share with others if you can see drama taking up too much time when there is much to do.
secrets from a coach thrive and maximize your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with debbie green of wishfish and laura thompson staveley of phenomenal training. Debs Law are you all right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, happy New Year. Happy New Year to you too. What's your word for the year? Law Fun, fun, love that.
Speaker 1:Look for the laughs.
Speaker 2:Look for the laughs. We'll certainly make that happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you might have to dig deep some days. Yeah, but look for the laugh, and what we're hoping is is that these weekly podcast episodes continue to be a bit of a bright spot in your week. It's some easy listening, continuing professional development, cpd but always with a call to action and a share the secret at the end. How are you feeling about the year ahead, debs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think my word of the year is ready to be ready. So yeah, just be ready. Whatever life chucks at you, I'm going to be ready as much as I possibly can. So yeah, wonderful, yeah, so compassionate, yes, lovely.
Speaker 1:And, of course, it would be so easy to be compassionate and ready if everyone else you know acted with honour and respect and integrity and dignity. However, what we are most excited about is our first four-part miniseries of the year is looking all at reducing drama. So what does it mean to reduce drama? Whether that is workplace dynamics, whether that is dramas that are kind of going around inside your head, whether that is working with different types of people in different ways, or whether it is from a team point of view, how to reduce team drama. So we'll have four different angles. But looking at this whole idea of reducing drama and we thought it would be quite cool in honour of the Chinese New Year, which is starting as of the 29th of January and we're entering into the year of the snake. So, debs, tell us what does it mean to be someone that was born in the year of the snake?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I suppose it's in particular, as you said, the wood snake. So I know you've got some other facts on it, but I suppose this is around that personality that has two sides. Like everything else, we all have two sides to us. So you have that one side of that snake, which is that charming, intelligent and creative side of you, and then maybe the flip side of that it may be secretive, cunning and ruthless, so a bit snaky at times. As we said it, however, it's understanding what role you're going to play with whoever it is you're playing it with. So you either create the drama and you sit and live and breathe in it, or you recognise you're in the drama and get yourself out of it. So it's how creative can you be and intelligent enough to get out of the drama?
Speaker 1:Love it. And it's been defined that the year of the snake, so the year ahead is going to be a year of transformation, renewal and spiritual growth. And you mentioned the wood snake, so the wood snake in particular is known for its harmonious energy and being able to have greater levels of versatility, generating creativity as well, so I think it's going to be a full-on year. This is the first year in the second half of this shape-shifting decade, so what perfect time to just think actually, what might I need to let go of, what might I need to embody, what's serving me and what actually might be just worth sliding away and letting that stay there within the undergrowth. And we wanted to first of all introduce this topic, this concept that we've covered a couple of times but it's such a powerful one.
Speaker 1:It's one that people come back to in this idea of snakes and ladders.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're right, Lord, because also people don't recognise when they're in it and the whole drama triangle that comes out of it. And it's always fascinating when you can just hear some language you're using or language somebody else is using and you can absolutely, if you're in tune with it, can see what role they're playing in that moment. But we fall into it so quickly we don't even know we're in it until we're in it, if that makes sense. So it is a hot topic and we do get asked and we always forget how do we get out of it?
Speaker 1:Because we know when we're in it and we sometimes sit in it and we love it, but it's not always a healthy place for us to be. So how do we get ourselves out of it as well? Okay, cool, so I'll take us through this concept of snakes and ladders game and so we can then identify and notice it, and then you're going to take us through. Well, actually, what does that mean in terms of seeing your part in it and then being able to step out of it, all in the pursuit of reducing drama, whether that is in the boardroom or the bedroom, the playground or the canteen, wherever that kind of environment is? So imagine the snakes and ladders game. So you've got your counter, you shake it, you move along. The goal is to get from zero up to 100 across a series of lines. So a little bit like one's career path, let's say so. Let's say whether your 100 is just to get through the week.
Speaker 1:Or maybe you're on a bit of a mission this year where you're thinking, actually, I want to do, you know, change direction, or maybe the direction has been changed for me, or I want to move onwards, upwards, outwards, within the organisation I'm currently in. So you've got this kind of mission that you've got in your mind. So along that mission, like the Snakes and Ladders game, there might be some moves that are made that propel you up a couple of layers, so a ladder moment. So let's say you're there and you're working with a team and someone in that meeting says, oh, laura, that was such a good idea you had at the meeting last year. And then I think, oh, this is a ladder moment, lovely, and that's something that propels you up, whether that is just a sense of wellbeing or whether there's something tangible that happens as a result of that call out. So that would maybe be a little ladder maneuver where someone in the team has given you a hero call out and then that's helped propel you up.
Speaker 1:Let's say that you're there on that new line and then maybe there's a snake that you didn't realize you're about to tread on. So the week later you're there and the person that gave you a call out the week before now says, well, I did email you, laura, two weeks ago, did you not get my email? And that little snaky comment could potentially take you down and get you into that kind of drama zone where actually you're kind of going round and round and getting really kind of caught up with maybe a comment that's made or a decision that's been made. So this idea of snakes and ladders game and I think like sort of anything, if we can treat it for what it is, it might be an offhand comment that wasn't meant to have that perception, or maybe it was, and actually it means you need to equip yourself with a bit of intelligence to be able to deal with that in a healthy way. So from a conversation point of view, there's something known as the drama line.
Speaker 1:We've talked about this loads of times but it's such a handy little tool to have, particularly at the brink of a new year, if you can see there's some transformation opportunities ahead. So within a drama line there is. You might not realise it at the time, but a snaky comment might have been made. And then you go down into the drama line where you're rolling around in the past, you're looking for people or things to blame. It maybe destroys stuff because you're picking it apart and you're kind of getting stuck then in the past. What can be quite useful is to then have some ladder phrases, which is I understand things maybe could have been done differently last year.
Speaker 1:However, moving forward and you put the ladder up over that drama line and then you get yourself into the land of the future what can we build upon and what can we work through together? So, rather than getting stuck in the past, you're focusing on the future. So let's say you've got a meeting coming up in your diary and you've got an hour to problem solve together. Do you spend 59 minutes after the one minute check-in going back around the houses who should have done what and when? Or do you spend 59 minutes looking at well, what can we build upon to make it better? And just like a snakes and ladders game, seeing it for what it is, you can be prepared and then you can ensure that you don't sort of stumble into some dynamics that then just make it really horrible and toxic when you're sort of caught up in on it. It's such a good point. So, that idea of the snakes and ladders game Debs and that drama line, what's the build on that to turn this into practical use?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I just wanted to go back because you triggered a thought actually, as you were saying, that if you're in that meeting, and especially as we're coming back into the beginning of a new month, we sort of think, well, I haven't been heard. So sometimes when we're doing team coaching and we're trying to help enable people to be more harmonious in the way that they're working together, sometimes what you see is somebody within that group has not been heard or hasn't been listened to and you can see them getting ready to sort of, if you like, viperish, ready to go. I'm going to get my bit now, because they're very spiky, because they haven't necessarily been heard and yet someone else is maybe taking the glory for them. So they might then fall into that trap of being angry or feel like they're the victim or that they are maybe going. This is not fair or whatever it might be for them.
Speaker 2:And it's always interesting for me because, even though you've done the check-in, if somebody feels like they haven't been heard at all, they will still want to get their point across regardless. So it's a real team dynamic to have a good facilitative style to be able to bring some of that stuff out. And actually nine times out of ten, is that one person who may feel like they're the victim or feel like they're persecuted and they've got to get their point across is because they just weren't listened to. So part of that is on them, as in personal accountability, to ensure that you are being heard and you are getting your point across and you walk away from a conversation feeling like you've been heard. And then the other, if you're that team manager, supervisor, line manager, whatever is to recognize when you can feel somebody hasn't had their say. So how do you encourage that, maybe outside of a meeting, to just hear their point of view so they feel again that they have been listened to?
Speaker 2:And it's always interesting when you go. I thought we'd moved on from that, you know, and somebody will chuck in my head. I'm going. That was like 20 minutes ago, we talked about that, but this person had still got their point across and there's loads of stuff going on for that individual that we would then pick up with and have a conversation with them after. But it's not the place to do it in a group because there's definitely something going on in the background that's triggered that response within them and it's fascinating, damn that's such an interesting point because, from a physics point of view, isn't one of the law of thermodynamics energy can't be lost, it just gets transferred to another bit.
Speaker 1:So I might have just kept my mouth shut in that moment, but it's bubbling away and it will come out in some way. That might not be a particularly harmonious or productive kind of way. So okay, so step one in terms of stepping out of tricky workplace snakes and ladders. So, first of all, seeing it for what it is. So raising your level of situational awareness, yeah, take us through the second step. So you mentioned some words like victim persecutor. Yeah, so take us through that concept, because that often is the flip chart moment where people go oh, and it enables them to see it for what it is. So give us a bit of a 101 on what it means to be involved in a drama triangle.
Speaker 2:So the drama triangle is my bestest and it links to your drama line. So when you've shared with people how they get, you know, snake back down and they go below the drama line, this is when the drama triangle can come into play as well. So they sort of sit close by, and this was originally done by Professor Steve Cartman I think he's a professor now who put together the Cartman's drama triangle, and there are three roles that we play within that. As you said, persecutor is one where you could be aggressive, angry, quite judgmental of people. The other one is maybe the rescuer. That's another position we can play where we're over helpful, when we may be self-sacrificing, doing everything for others and we need to be needed, where we also potentially discount other people's ability to think for themselves, which is always something that we've all got a brain if we just encourage to use it. And then the third one is the victim, where they feel quite downtrodden, they feel quite helpless, maybe they're complaining of unmet needs. They also can discount themselves in different scenarios or feel like they're not worthy. So you know, we did our I plus you plus respect triangle last in a couple of pods ago. This is where this can play out as well, where. That's where the victim mentality can come in. So we've got to find out, and we don't know necessarily where we're at until we're in each of these roles, which is always the fascinating one, because it happens out of consciousness and we can adapt and adopt different roles depending on who that is.
Speaker 2:Therefore, there's three things I think that we need to be aware of and need to look out for to get out of the triangle, because, as I said, we can play either role. We can be I want to help you and look like the rescuer. So, lord, yeah, I'd leave that with me. Lord, I'll do that all for you. What can I do? Yeah, don't worry about it, you don't have to think about anything, I'll do that for you. So I'm rescuing you from whatever it is you may be going through.
Speaker 2:I then might go have done happy days, you've done it and you're ecstatic, and then I don't get any praise, thanks, acknowledgement, recognition for how I helped you. So therefore, I go. Oh, I can play two roles. Now I can go persecutor. Well, bloody hell, I did so much work for her. She never even bothered to say anything to me. That's the last time I'm doing that to her right, you can hear it right, or I can go into the victim and go. Well, obviously she doesn't really think that much of me, so it must be my fault that she never noticed that I'd done all that work for her. And you can. As I'm speaking, I can feel the energy going, because it happens out of consciousness to some extent and therefore you've got to watch out for it. You've got to look for when the roles are starting to switch and those emotional dynamics that sit around it are fascinating to observe, and that constant shifting of the different roles keeps the drama alive. I think you talk about is it the fire If you give?
Speaker 1:it more oxygen, or you need three elements. You need the heat source, you need the oxygen and the fuel.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think that's right. Yeah, I think it is, and if you take the oxygen away?
Speaker 1:So three people in a conflict is things are far more likely to kick off than just two people in a conflict. Yes, because the third person could be listening to the other two. They've had a bit of thinking time to then pipe in and so, yeah, so that that kind of conflict triangle, three people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I just thought it always reminds me when you talk about that. But actually that constant shifting of all the roles means that actually, the resolution will, nine times out of 10, be absolutely impossible to reach because there is no agreement going on. Or, like somebody, a victim may stop blaming others or they again they can still blame others in being the persecutor with their, and if they, as I said earlier, if they feel underappreciated, they can quite, you know, rescue can slip into the victim mode quite easily.
Speaker 1:So, debs, just practical point of view then. So, if I just chuck a couple of sort of common sort of scenarios, I feel like I got passed over for promotion. Yes, and I've been working really hard. So let's say, all through the pandemic I worked really, really hard and I never really got the recognition because everyone was so busy at the time. So here I am still, a couple of years on, still holding on to that and I'm feeling a bit bitter and a bit resentful. Yeah, and if actually someone's listening and thinking, you know, I think there are some things that I need to let go of.
Speaker 1:If 2025, year of the snake, what can we learn? Time to shed that old skin, transformation and renewal. So that sense of maybe someone feeling like they've got passed over for promotion, where would the drama triangle potentially keep that person perpetually stuck in all that? So I might feel like I'm being a good mate to you, debs, as you're there going oh, another example of being passed over and me then going no, actually that's not serving you well, is it? If I am being your rescuer, what that is doing is keeping you stuck within that. Is that the right take on the drama triangle?
Speaker 2:Definitely. And I think it also means that you potentially, depending on where you are, um, even if somebody offers you a solution, you might reject it because you've got to notice the behaviors that are going on for that person. And also, I'd probably then need if you weren't recognizing me, I'd be even more dependent on you, so I'd maybe clinging on to you to to get you to tell me that you think I'm great. So I'd be like absolutely waiting and wanting to feel needed and not so I'll be needier, if that makes sense, if I'm not aware of what's going on or the game that's being played. And I think that's quite an interesting one, because in our minds we know that's not. Oh, why was I like that?
Speaker 2:I've done it again and I've seen people do this and it's that ability to know yourself. I think that's what it comes down to to get yourself out of the drama of what's going on. It's to know you first of all. Whatever it is, that self-awareness of recognizing oh my God, I'm playing the victim here like a bit of a shake up and saying how do I feel about that? So being vulnerable sometimes to go actually based on what you've just shared. This is how I feel, because no one can take away how you feel, but you're taking responsibility, accountability for yourself and your reaction to it, and it's not about asking them to fix it, because then you'd still be in the rescuer mode. It's just stating how you're feeling and what you believe you can do to enable you to move forward through that.
Speaker 2:So, therefore, I've got my own ability to think for myself. Give me some time to think about that before I respond. It's very non-judgmental, it's using I quite a lot. So that assertiveness that we can bring in, that nurturing ability and that vulnerability can help us come out of the drama triangle at times. And then, by taking that ownership for self oh yeah, I'm doing that I can then do something about it, because that's where accountability for us ourselves comes in. No one else is accountable for us, only us. We might be responsible for others or things like that, but the accountability sits within us. So it's up to us to get ourselves out of the drama triangle, get out of the victim mode or get out of aggressive, you know, persecutor mode or victim mode and start to think differently about it. So thinking about focusing on the solution, looking at what the problem is you're trying to solve here having great conversations with people, which can be a bit scary to some because it might be like I've got to share what I'm really feeling about this.
Speaker 1:I'm upset by this. Well, especially, debs, if that goes against an ingrained pattern of how you tend to handle all relationships in your life. So just because it's a 10 to 5 in the afternoon work conversation, it's still the same person that is there, even though it might be 10 to 6, and you're having the conversation at home, you know it's. If actually it can be a nerve wracking moment if it feels like this is a whole new way of acting, yeah, because you're not used to it. Practice makes permanent, doesn't it? You know, the more you do, it the easier it then becomes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think it's starting off with asking yourself some questions. First of all, if you've recognized that, you have identified that you fell into one of those roles and, as I said, we do it out of consciousness to start with, but we don't catch ourselves in it and then it might be that you come away from that conversation or that interaction and go oh, that didn't go as well as I thought. So what did I do? What could I do differently next time? Did my actions align with my own values and goals as to what I wanted? How clear was I in setting up the conversation, well as to what the expectation was? And whilst we can be really clear on our conversation and set up, remembering that not everybody is going to hear it the same way so just because you wanted I don't know to get a great resolution, it didn't quite come. It's because everybody else wasn't on the same page as you or they had their own agendas. So we all play the game and it takes a lot of energy and effort to really be present in the moment. If you're having those conversations about what's going on for me right now, Because you're using your past as a reference and you always talk about that with your foxy mindset. It's knowing what could OK, I've come out of it, what could I have done differently, Maybe getting feedback from others as to what they observed and what they saw. Because then that's the vulnerability of yourself saying, you know, I don't think I handled that as well as I could have done. What did you notice? And then being ready to hear what feedback somebody might give you. But that depends on trust and respect.
Speaker 2:And then sometimes it's just absolutely owning your own mistakes. You know, admitting when you did that wrong, not making excuses for it to go. Yeah, okay, that wasn't the best approach. Oh my God, it's a lesson I'm learning and I'll make sure I don't do that ever again because of the impact it's had. So owning it is sometimes something that people forget to do as well. They just go, oh, it'll be all right, and then it's not because if you haven't then called out or had the conversation with the person about how it made you feel I think Lindsay always uses this it made her feel a bit ick. So if there's a bit of ick going on, check in with yourself as to where is that coming from.
Speaker 2:First, that self-awareness is where it starts. Where is that coming from. Is that my stuff or is that actually somebody else's stuff? No, normally it's our stuff. That's driving how we're feeling about it.
Speaker 2:So just by questioning it sometimes and, you know, noticing what the impact was can help us raise our own self-awareness to what is it that triggers us? Is it the language? Is it, you know, not being recognized? Is it not being appreciated, which are all things that we're all looking for not having enough time to spend with people, but we can only be accountable for that.
Speaker 2:So if we know that we're going to have a longer conversation with somebody, make sure you have the time to have the conversation. Don't just say, well, can we have a chat, and that person's got something else going on. It's always can we have a chat when you're available, because it's important for me that we do have, you know, good conversation around this. So, knowing where others people are playing because we all play the game snakes and ladders right, and we all come at it with our own stories and stuff the stage so that we're all present in it how are we arriving today? As we always say in coaching, how are you arriving today? It will be different whether you did that at 10 o'clock in the morning, one o'clock or five o'clock, You'll have different responses within yourself and from others, so it's really important to know where you're at, but also know where other people are at as well. Fascinating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so fascinating.
Speaker 1:So we've looked at what does this mean, this idea of snakes and ladders and reducing drama in those kind of workplace dynamics.
Speaker 1:We've looked really tactical and practical around this idea of the drama triangle and what that means in terms of how you can bring that into an everyday kind of conversation. Devs, let's kind of bring this up from a bit of a strategic perspective and I think it'd be really useful just to end looking at what is the opportunity, what is the reason why you would want to reduce drama and clean up workplace dynamics. So here we are at the start of a new year and we've got so many different things going on in society at the moment. Just even how we use new technologies in our lives and what that kind of means is kind of a massive topic, but one of loads of topics. So what do you see as the opportunity for individuals in their work life to actively look to reduce drama and what opportunities would you put out there for teams and at an organisational level to look at how we reduce dramas that might go on between teams?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a good thing, lord God, how long have we got to do that? I think it's definitely around developing that emotional regulation within you, because they can play a part in that might hinder our accountability for stuff. They can play a part in that might hinder our accountability for stuff like, maybe, defensiveness, or I should have done that, or you know, if only I had all those what if? Moments. Look at it Also, I think, with that emotional regulation, I think you can then be more rational in that moment and responsible rather than reacting impulsively. So if we have an impulse control which isn't well managed, you may just react and you may say something you regret, whereas that ability to just take a moment and pause before you respond can make a huge difference in that emotional regulation because it will trigger, you'll know when it's triggered it. So self-awareness, as we said, is key.
Speaker 1:Debs, just to interrupt there with my lack of emotional regulation. You see, this is where, you know, right at the start I was saying what I'm looking for this year is fun. Yeah, you see, there are some moments where those impulsive moments, the lack of emotional regulation I know some of the most hilarious moments I've had at work is where someone has just blurted out something and it, but it's always, you know, not in an unkind way. So you know, there's just enough emotional regulation to mean it is a somewhat outside voice and not just inside voice. But that is one of the things I think is interesting, isn't it around that inside voice? But that is one of the things I think is interesting, isn't it around that?
Speaker 1:Because the more relaxed people get with each other, the more they breathe out, let their tummies hang out and let all those kind of you know thoughts and stuff out, and then potentially so there's a fine balance, I guess, between not being buttoned up and being a facade but being kind of real and authentic. But still, I guess, mindful of, I've got this joke that I really want to share. How might this land? Maybe not?
Speaker 2:right now. Yeah, it's that law, it's having that awareness around what's going on around you as well, and reading the room, and it's not about you know, being not yourself, but it is about managing that impact that you could have on somebody because you just haven't read the room at all, um, and because you know you can get so caught up in it without, oh, my god. I want to get my point across. I want to say something. We just go blur and then we go, oh, okay, so it.
Speaker 2:I mean we, we see it all around us all of the time and we all do it, and it's like the one thing I would say is, if you can take the initiative and address problems sooner rather than later by being aware being in the now is so important.
Speaker 2:What am I actually dealing with right now?
Speaker 2:That rational, I suppose practical outlook on stuff as to what can we do now, and now is the key word and whether we can do something right away or not.
Speaker 2:Yet it means that you're creating a space to explore and navigate how we can overcome whatever it is we're being faced with. But I think it's a hard one, because we run on emotions as humans and this is why you know, when you think the things that you always talk about, that we're definitely not robots. That ability to just flip, adapt and flex in that moment and just pivot so quickly because you've read the room there is no algorithm at the moment that can read that and do that for us. I think it's learning, as you would say, lord, but there's nothing greater than our own ability, I think, to be accountable for how do we show up, how do we want to be? Remember we're in an environment, even though we may be relaxed to go, I'm not sure where that person's at today. So I have to be mindful, as you said, and practice and knowing and getting to know people and talking and things like that.
Speaker 1:And I guess, from an organisational level, if you've got teams that are able to increase the ladders and reduce the snakes, then you've got a team that is much more willing to collaborate, to showcase different bits of work that they might be working on, to join the dots up maybe when they're not, you know, don't have to, but yeah, willingly kind of having little catch-up meetings. And if you're working in a hybrid environment, you know, as we've all been discovering the last four or five years, then that's got to be put on the agenda rather than it as a just a happy accident, because you happen to bump into each other in the corridor. So I think it's, uh, yeah, I think it's going to be a fascinating year ahead, debs, yeah, I think it is law, it is going to be.
Speaker 2:I think it really will be. And and whilst we don't know we're in the drama triangle or we've dropped below the drama line into the drama of it, we do know when we're in it, the more awareness we have, and getting ourselves up out of it is actually pausing, saying no. Can we take a moment to just come back to what we were here to talk about? It's that assertiveness, to own it in that moment, rather than just ignore it and just let that conversation continue. And inside you're going oh my God, is it ever going to stop? Yeah, because that's not. You're playing the game.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're so right, debs, and I think my share of the secret would be I know the personal benefit I've had from learning about these models and concepts over the years is that it gives all of those restless, ruminating thoughts a bit of a home. So if you're finding yourself going to bed at night or waking up in the morning with a conversation going on in your head that doesn't feel pleasant and it's to do with something that's to do with work, then that's where these tools can just be really useful, just to be able to have a bit of a mirror moment and go right, what's going on? Let me check in with myself, as you then said, let's check in what role am I playing in on this? And actually, what is the best thing I can do now to then be able to reduce the drama? And then, when you've got two people or two teams that are able to sort of work these things out, then the opportunities are just then incredible, because you've got that trust that's formed sometimes from that kind of rupture and repair.
Speaker 1:So, debs, what would your, so my share, the secret would be if you've got a mate who you know is going through a bit of stuff at the moment, get them to listen to this. It can be so reassuring and comforting to know you're not the only one, and if it's impacting your ability to fall asleep at night, it's really important to get these things cleaned up and being able to welcome in the new year of the snake, from 29th of January, the year of the snake. It's a transformational one, and the wood snake in particular is all about transforming via harmonious energy, and there might be some things that you want to let go, leave behind and glide on forward to the revised version of yourself and Debs. As ever, turning this on wishful thinking. So we like to be easy listening, cpd. So what would your call to action be surrounding this particular episode?
Speaker 2:Oh, I love this. I like your where you said what was it? The rapture bit what? Did you say there the rapture I couldn't really mind writing.
Speaker 1:The rapture from rupturing and then repairing.
Speaker 2:That's it, the repair bit. I think it's so important. I think you mentioned about knowing your role you're playing within this and, I think, just making sure that you're aware of the impact that you're bringing in. So are you in a good mood anyway or not, and own yourself. So I think it's accountability for self all the way would be my call to action Know you, regulate you and be aware of the impact that you want to have on people and journal about it. I know people go got right about it, but if you, if it hasn't gone right, explore that, ask yourself some questions. What happened there? What was I thinking? How was I feeling? You know? What was maybe going on for them? What could I do differently next time? So you're moving it away from the um into repairing it, as you said. So, yeah, that would be my call to action.
Speaker 1:Bit of reflection, love it. So this four-part miniseries is all about reducing drama. Can't wait for next week's one, where we are going to be looking at how do you spot and deal with organisational saboteurs. Oh, yes, and it will be interesting to see the response on this, because understanding your own personal saboteurs which is an episode we recorded about 18 months ago, I think now has been one of our most listened to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it might have been. So I think it'd be very interesting to see the response on this one, which looks at an organisational level, and what does that then mean?
Speaker 2:So have a wonderful week, Debs. You do. I've lots of ladder moments. I love it and I'll see you next week.
Speaker 1:I'll see you on the other side, all right then Love you. Bye. We hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secretsfromacoachcom, or follow us on Insta or Facebook. If you're a Spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacoachcom and sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work.