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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
229. Book Club - Compassionate Leadership - Balancing People With Profits
In this final in our 4-part series where we review 4 of the recent books that have made an impact on us, we explore Steven Hargreave's brilliant 'The Compassionate Leader's Playbook' from 2021. His book demonstrates how leading with compassion is great for business, culture, and the bottom line, and how when we lead with compassion everyone benefits.
We love this book because of the core belief that runs through it, that a successful modern workplace is one where relationships, connectivity, wellbeing, and purpose. Whether you are a formal leader with a Big L or an everyday leader with little L looking to make a difference, this is about bringing renewed energy, enhanced kindness, integrity, and empathy to our worklife. During this second half of the 2020's as we head towards 2030 what people need and want from their leaders has changed; its about creating commercial, tangible, measurable success through creating the optimal conditions for everyone to be their best and to do their best.
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Debs, laura, you all right? Yeah, I'm doing well. How's your week? It's been buzzing. I got to work in the room with you in the flesh I know it was lovely Two days and we had the most hilarious cohort of leaders you could ever wish to have. We did. They'd all been through a bit, so I think they just found it a really life-affirming two days to be able to connect, learn from each other, catch up and still, the recurring message that is coming out of most of the sessions I've been running I'm not sure what you've had this year so far is I'm glad it's not just me, yes, and then that removes it from feeling like it's an individual failing into. It's a situational challenge that everyone's sort of dealing with, so that was so great really working with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. How's your?
Speaker 2:week been, yes, same. Working in the room with you was magic because, as you said, we had such a laugh and listening to their checkouts at the end, even though we had a laugh, they took so much away from those couple of days and that just shows you the power of being in the room and connecting with people and sharing thoughts and ideas and best practice. It's, it was just amazing. And then, yeah, just doing quite a lot of coaching, one-on-one coaching so it's been full on this week and it's, yeah, going to be a good, good couple of weeks.
Speaker 1:I think? Yeah, I think there's always that balance, isn't it? Whatever type of role you've got is, when you're sort of busy and you're sort of going through your various tasks and getting stuff ticked off, where's the time for some of that education and the empowerment that sort of comes from it? So I mean, all of us we've always sort of slept around a load of books in bags and you know, you see people picking them up over a coffee break and having a look at books. But yeah, you do. That was the goal for this current book club, that we are now in our fourth and final episode, which is, um, if you know that you want to sort of freshen up your thinking a little bit, but you just haven't got the time or the stillness in your life to sit and read, yeah, or to listen to an audio book, then we're going to sort of cut through to the good stuff and give you some bullets and some takeaway bits. So we've had some fascinating feedback. I think people have really enjoyed this book club.
Speaker 2:I think they have. Yeah, I think they have because we've just sort of cut through some of it and given them hints and tips as to what they might do and consider. And you know, I'm sure the Amazon sales of the books might have gone up, because we obviously didn't give it all away. Yeah, yeah, it's been good, hasn't it?
Speaker 1:It has. So we had Mo Gordat's Scary Smart. So how to maintain that balance of intelligence and consumption in an AI-enabled world? We then had trauma-informed coaching, and that was nice, having some interaction with the author herself. So that was really exciting.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was, wasn't it? Thank you, Joanna.
Speaker 1:Harper. And then David Eagleman's fascinating book Live Wired, which was last week's episode, which is a really refreshing take on just how equipped the brain is to be able to adapt and learn and thrive through even some of the most hideous of setbacks, which I guess then links quite nicely to your book choice for this week's Dev.
Speaker 2:So tell us what you've chosen and what you led you to this book oh well, I have used this one for those who can't see it, but we will give you the title the compassionate leaders playbook by Stephen Hargreaves, with the how to lead with compassion and ensure your people thrive. And I picked this book up last. It must have been last year, I think, or, yeah, towards the beginning of last year. And you know, because I love about being compassionate, that is it. If you can't be anything, be compassionate. It's just how important it is in today's world. And when I read through this book, I'm thinking, wow, how he talks about what we need to do so that we can enable leaders to sort of be compassionate towards their people. They don't have to be scary, you know just dictatorial control and you know coercive control, any of that stuff that we've talked about, but it's how do we embrace the power of compassion to enhance team engagement, productivity and well-being, and how we can integrate the traditional skills of being a manager, leader, but also with those compassionate leadership skills, to create the right environment for people to thrive. And that's what we always talk about, laura, when you know, when we said, you know, thrive rather than survive. And when I saw this, I went this is everything we talk about in a book and what I loved about it was very easy to read.
Speaker 2:He had a really great introduction. He has had years of experience of working in corporates himself, but also then going on and coaching and leading others in teams, and what I loved about it when you read it, there's loads of little self-reflection exercises you can do throughout the book as well. So he gives you a bit of an overview as to why it's so important to have compassion as a legacy, because it always leaves a lasting impression. Important to have compassion as a legacy because it always leads to lasting impression. And then he says about how can we intentionally be compassionate. And what he said was I'm going to read out of his book. Actually, he says through all of his work and programs he's done, I've seen an increasing level of awareness within organizations around the need to build cultures characterized by empathy, inclusion and and kindness, and it's cultures where its members take positive, intentional, compassionate action when and where it is required, because they know it is the right thing to do and that when they do, everyone benefits. Wow, that's what it's about, and I just went. That's exactly how many workshops do we stay and stand in law over the years and years and years and and enable and encourage people to have a level of understanding, a level of compassion, a level of empathy. Put yourself in the other person's shoes, you know. And this book just brings it all together. And he sort of sums it up with different chapters through the book which cover things like attention, humility, fairness, respect, integrity, empathy and courage. And all of that is around leading self-compassion. And if you can harness that, then it just makes for a better place to work.
Speaker 2:And I just loved it because it's everything we've spoken about for the last 15, 20 years we've been doing. This is don't forget the people. It's all about relationships, it's all about conversations. It's all about conversations. It's not that hug and hope approach, as he called it, but it's intentionally leaning into going okay, I don't have to be this scary, crazy boss. I can be a compassionate, I can listen, I'll still be firm and attentive and have the courage to say yes or no, or you know, I'm not going to be a rollover, but it's just coming from that place of intentional compassion and I just loved it.
Speaker 2:I just I mean, I've got. If you look through the book, I've got, it's got. I think never enough. Every page is folded over with oh, what a good idea and that's amazing. And then I've used it on workshops as well, because he has this 360 diagnosis tool in the back and it really enables you to really think about your team and where you're at and creates good conversations and certainly when I've used it before in teams, it just gives you a bit of a platform to have great conversations around. How can you be more compassionate?
Speaker 1:Great book, wow, god. I mean I can tell, deb, by how fired up you are, that this just really sort of hit a nerve, right. So talk to me, go on, then. You were the first person that introduced the word compassion to me, and I don't mean I've had a horrible, miserable, mean life, but as in, I've been very blessed, I think, being brought up with lots of compassion, but I've never really got my edge around that word compassion. Can you define what compassion means to you, because one of your motto, I think, is to help people lead a compassionate existence.
Speaker 2:Is that right? Yeah, it is yeah, as part of our wellness coaching.
Speaker 1:So, why that particular word? Because I'm starting to hear it more. So, yeah, why that word compassion.
Speaker 2:I think, because it brings in everything you are about being a decent human being actually. So the ability to have a really good level of self-awareness, emotional intelligence which we've been banging on for years about the importance of emotional intelligence and managing your emotions and being aware of the impact that you're having, Having empathy, as we said, putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. You never know what somebody's backstory is. And, as you said, in coaching, when we've done this before, we always take people as we find them, so how they're arriving in that moment. And if I can create that space where I can understand where they're coming from, I'll be compassionate, I'll actively listen to what they have to say. So I'm listening with my heart, not just waiting to reply and then always around.
Speaker 2:I suppose action orientated kindness is being able to taking action to support people. It's not just about feeling for others. It goes a bit deeper, especially in coaching as well, where you can listen and enable that person to speak through what's going on, but then encourage an action. So what do you want to do with that or how might you overcome that? So it's always from that place of to support people, fair decision-making. It just crosses over so many parts of us as humans on that physical, mental, spiritual and mental, I suppose existence that it has to involve all of our bodies. To do it, I'm getting it now.
Speaker 1:So to be a compassionate human, compassionate colleague, compassionate manager or leader, it embodies those things like integrity, courage, listening, so it was almost like an umbrella term. If you were to describe someone in one word, you know they're a compassionate person. It sort of embodies all of those sort of behaviour, kind of bits. Let's just bust some myths. So what this isn't about as you mentioned it as sort of just a throwaway comment, but I think it'd be worthwhile just focusing on it this isn't about being soft, yielding to everyone and not standing up for anything and being a soft or weak kind of person. In that moment, in fact, I'm getting the impression it's anything but.
Speaker 2:It is anything, but it's around. If you understand who you are, you know how you come across. So that self-awareness piece and self-regulation that pops up in emotional intelligence. But it's about how we can make sure we're making fair decisions, that we're consistent in our approach, that we are offering help when needed, not just giving it and telling. It's also about, I suppose, making sure we create that culture where people feel valued and supported.
Speaker 2:Everybody brings something and I know we always say that it's just how, as leaders, managers of those people, can we balance that level of kindness with accountability? And that's the big thing. For me, it's like, okay, I'm not going to do it for you because there is a business to run. Okay, so, making sure that people and business goals are met. But I think it's this kindness with accountability that I really like and it really think yeah, that's it, because we're accountable for ourselves. We may be responsible for others and we may have responsibility or ownership of what they're doing, but ultimately, if we can create that environment where somebody takes their own accountability for doing something in the right way, doing the right thing, I just think that's where the magic happens.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's roll up our sleeves and dig a little bit deeper. Go on, then. Who wouldn't want to be compassionate? So what gets in the way of demonstrating compassion in the moment, in those everyday moments? Because you read through that list and you know that's like the leadership profile, the Tinder profile, the online dating profile that everyone would want to hear. So what gets in the way? That means that there has to be a book written about it.
Speaker 2:Good, point To remind us. Oh my God, I love that. That's a good point, laure. Yeah, because in theory it sounds quite simple, but we have seen over years that actually people don't demonstrate that, and I know some of the things that I suppose stop people being a compassionate leader is this bit about fear of appearing weak, and some leaders believe that compassion is weakness, so that can stop. They worry about being too empathetic, it will make them lose their authority or that they could be taken advantage of, which is actually the opposite effect, because in reality, compassion compassionate leaders builds trust and respect, not weakness. So, yeah, fear of appearing weak. I think some people won't do it because of that.
Speaker 2:I think high pressure and stress when somebody is task focused rather than people focused, so it's all about getting the job done, regardless of the cost or the fallout, and it can make those leaders very reactive to what's going on around them and impatient and dismissive of other people's point of view. So basically, they're just railroading and through it. So it's how? How can they make that better? Um, and think differently about it so they can delegate tasks, because ultimately, what happens if there is a manager that or leader, that's that they're on a one-way street to burnout or overwhelm, and it just manifests itself by they're getting even more stressed, even more more angry, even more dictatorial, and then those horrible traits start showing. And we always know that people leave their boss right, not their job. So the impact is huge. So maybe practicing some self-care, just being mindful of who they are.
Speaker 2:And the big, big, big, big one is lack of emotional intelligence. That's it is lack of emotional intelligence. That's it.
Speaker 2:If you haven't really done work on yourself and really thought about what you bring, what you're great at, what you're maybe not so great and still need to work on where are some, do you have an open mind to feedback? Do you take that on board as an opportunity to learn and grow, or do you just dismiss it and write it off as well? What do you know? You know that type of thing, and I think that whole self-reflection is key to enable to start to build that. If you know that you've done something and it's had a good impact, ask yourself how did I handle that? What did I do? The same, if you haven't had a good impact, how could I handle it? What could I do better next time? So self-reflection plays a big part in this and, yeah, understanding what level of emotional intelligence you have, which is why we sometimes get asked to do the EQI assessment with teams, just to gauge where their levels of emotional intelligence are, because some people just don't know and they think they do.
Speaker 1:I think you've hit on such an interesting point there about self-reflection. So I know when I went through and I call it the quarter life crisis, so I had big wobbles in my life.
Speaker 1:I started having panic attacks between the years of 25, being aged 25, 27. And at that point, when I was trying to work out what was going on and just feeling absolutely you know the beck and call of these horrible feelings of panic, I would not have had the courage to lend into someone else's stuff. So, although if you were, I was employed at that point, if you were a delegate on my training course, you wouldn't have known a thing, but I wouldn't have had probably the courage to have sort of said oh, you mentioned that bit earlier on. You know, I just want to check in everything, all right, because I didn't have enough headspace to look after other people. Because I didn't have enough headspace to look after other people because I was in my mind trying to sort out my stuff. And I know that you know, for anyone that's listening that's familiar with those types of things, you know it's an ongoing journey and all that kind of stuff. But my goodness, once you start to sort of take yourself in hand and start to be really honest with yourself and work out what's going on, it actually then frees up that space to then be compassionate externally. So now, because I'm more aware of all of my inner neuroses and all that kind of stuff and I carry it as lightly as I can.
Speaker 1:What that means is, if you pick up a little throwaway comment of just someone saying I'm struggling in the moment, actually I've now got the space to be able to say you mentioned that earlier.
Speaker 1:Should we have a quick catch up? I would have been scared of those conversations 20 years ago because I hadn't worked my own stuff out. So I think that's just brilliant what you were saying about self-reflection and practicing it on yourself first, so you're sturdy enough to then be able to reach out then to others. And the thing, of course, is all those people that helped me when I was going through my wobbly times and practice compassion with me. That's also role modeling, how I can then do it with others. So it's this sort of lovely viral effect of the more you start sort of receiving it, the more you then start passing it on. But I just think that I really resonate when you said about even the chapter titles of courage, how you've got to be brave enough to lean into someone else's stuff, not meddling things that you're not trained to, but just to reach out to someone, and I think there are some really beautiful people out there who are just so just about coping with their own stuff.
Speaker 1:They haven't got the headspace to be able to sort of do that. So practice it on yourself first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, because that's how we learn about ourselves really, because we don't know it all. Definitely because that's how we we learn about ourselves really, because we don't know it all. We're not, you know, the perfect end product. We never will be, because everything keeps evolving and changing. And I think you know those people that don't think that's how it should be, are very naive and wonder why they might get left behind as the dinosaurs, as they sometimes get called. Because you know, if they're putting, maybe, profit over people, then they're creating a toxic work environment which is competitive and feel pressured to prioritise results over wellbeing.
Speaker 2:And we've seen what happens there, where people take weeks and weeks off ill and then feel guilty because they've had, because they've let everybody down, and it just spirals into this toxic culture which isn't a healthy place to be for anybody.
Speaker 2:Because even though tough leadership in inverted commas it might be ingrained in a culture, it doesn't help.
Speaker 2:And just because maybe they haven't, like you said, haven't had good role models, haven't had any training or learning or workshops to see that actually there is another way you can get the best out of your people which will automatically drive the profit, so you can focus on your people.
Speaker 2:They'll give you what you need and then the magic happens. And I think if no one's ever had that which is why we get asked to come in and work with toxic teams in inverted commas and just enable people to see that there is a different way you can manage and lead people. You know you don't have to be that results only leader, or that you know it's my way, or the highway, or that control over controlling and command leader, because that actually doesn't get you anywhere. So I think people are. If I look back at the work that we've done over the 20 odd years that we've done over the you know, 20 odd years that we've been doing this, I think the more compassion you can show to people, the more understanding you create and say the courage to look at yourself first, because that's where it starts and if you're.
Speaker 2:You know as you what do you always say if you're stuck in traffic, you're part of traffic, that's it yeah, it's the same.
Speaker 2:So if there's the same, but just be like historic thing happening in a pattern and a cycle of events that are going on and you happen to be the last one remaining, it's you, yes, hello. It's not because you're amazing leader, no, everyone's gone because and I think that's just like that is lacking emotional intelligence. That's that's on. That's on a whole, nother scale with ego, and you know, I know this and yeah, it's not a great place to be. And I'm fortunate to say the people we have been working with over years have gone.
Speaker 2:Oh, they might not have liked to look at it from that care and compassion and side of it, but I always remember I think one of the people we worked with gave Scott Fuller, who we've had as a guest before, he gave all of his team the book I think it's called Lead with Love. Oh, the Southwest Airlines. Yes, he did, he gave that. That was years ago and he gave that to all of his team when he was doing a team day and they all sort of looked at it love, you know, lead with love. It was the most incredible thing to watch, probably about 15 years ago Now, how he then gave them that to read and then use that as part of his role modelling and his leadership style and his team dynamic, because you did see people shift in their approach to others and they saw the results.
Speaker 1:And that had such an impact that actually Andy Pooley, who has also been a guest of ours, that was the book he was referencing two weeks ago on a leadership workshop he was doing the setup for saying the impact that had on him as an early leader when he was handed that book 20 years ago by Tom Willis, who's also been a guest on ours.
Speaker 1:So I think and you know that sounds terribly old fashioned I always think it's really inspiring when you hear male senior leadership role models talking about this compassion leading with love, it carries even more gravitas. I think I don't know why it might sound hugely kind of gender oriented, but I think there's something really inspiring when you hear a male senior leader who you know 100 years ago part of the patriarch or whatever actually saying do you know what? There's ways and means to lead well and if you want that balance of profitability and people, there is a way to do it. As you said, it doesn't always have to be this dictatorship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or my way or the highway, yeah, and it may be worked in the 80s, when people were less empowered. And now you've got social media and I'll tell you what the world will know if you have a toxic leadership style and you haven't paid them enough in an NDA, you get rid of them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. And then you look at the Glassdoor reviews that has been written about them and that certainly is not what you want, the publicity that you want, Because, again, it just keeps people well, I would say it keeps people like mushrooms and you just keep feeding them crap and don't let them have any light, Whereas actually, if you are that compassionate leader, you will always put your people first. You're there to lead them. You're not there to control and top down decision making, because that doesn't help anybody, you know. So I think it's those people that don't involve others in a solution. Or if we've got a problem here, everybody, you know I need all of your input and they think they've got the answer and then they just go ahead and do it and then everybody goes. Well, we knew it wasn't going to work, but it's like that's because of that, individual hasn't had that self-awareness or even recognized that maybe they don't know it all and it's fascinating to watch how people can start to turn it around and it's hard to let go of if you've got that style already and maybe that command and control person or just results orientated or you'll never seen the distant and unapproachable leader is where we've seen a few of them. It just doesn't work in the long run. And I know in my time, over years of working, I've seen some of those people just get promoted sideways or promoted out or out of the way, whereas you can't do. I don't think you should be doing that anymore because the problem's still there.
Speaker 2:So the courage as he talks about stephen hargreaves in his books talks about is then how do you pay attention to what matters, how do you make sure that you show respect and fairness and you do have the courage to have these conversations? If it's, if it's not aligning with what it is you're creating? And I think, think yeah, I just think this book was any person who wants to know how to manage or lead. Well, my recommendation this would be my call to action law would be to absolutely go and buy yourself a copy of this book, because it's all in this playbook and if you just take part of it not necessarily all of it it's how you can be a better person, human. It doesn't just necessarily relate to you. If you are a leader, you can apply any of these things to you. If you're frontline, it doesn't matter. They're just reflective questions which enable you to start thinking about yeah, how do I show up? You know, we always say you're that person that lights the room up as you walk in or as you walk out.
Speaker 1:I love that phrase. It's classic.
Speaker 2:It's classic, isn't it?
Speaker 2:But, this is what his book really is about. Is all of that stuff we can do is yeah, how can we just be better? Better leaders, not focus on just profit, not, you know, and it's hard, I get it and people struggle with it but those that have the courage to go actually I need to understand my own levels of emotional intelligence and where I can be better at it and those that we've seen that through one-to-one coaching, those that actively work on themselves, the difference is huge and some will say I wish I'd done this sooner, but maybe they haven't had the opportunity.
Speaker 1:Debs, the empowering thing I imagine from reading the book like that is it gives you a language then to be able to justify and validate to a stakeholders or an investor board about. Actually, we are going to take the team off for some team time or we are going to invest in one hour one to ones once a week, and the reason we're going to do that is we know if we've got that connection in their relationships, then the till is then going to be ringing. If we get rid of all of that and just sacrifice it short term, then the longer term impacts that. So I think that's brilliant. If you're listening into this and you're thinking I know this and I'm endeavoring to do this, but them lot upstairs are putting the pressure on, and actually this then enables you to empower yourself with a bit of language that makes the clear link between people equals profits. Otherwise, debs, we might as well all be robots.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, there we go, laura Just shoving that in right at the end. Just shoving that in right at the end. You're absolutely right, yeah, because it doesn't mean you're lowering your expectations either. It just means you're creating and inspiring through understanding and not fear, whereas people are fearful. The robots are going to come and take over my job. Well, actually, you need to do something and take accountability for yourself first, because they will if we're not careful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My share of the secret would be sort of links into just what you were talking about emotional intelligence, right, because I just had this little comedy. There was a flash in my mind around that insight we found out when we were doing our virtual lunch and learns, like right in the midst of lockdown, early pandemic, and we were looking at how does NASA train its astronauts to be able to work in close proximity. You know when you're years away from a rescue mission. You know if they don't scramble up and how from a recruitment point of view and you imagine there's huge recruitment rounds you have to go through. But they would rather have the world's second best space engineer who has top whack emotional intelligence skills than the world's best engineer who has no emotional intelligence.
Speaker 1:And I think once you know that even something that is so honed I mean people would have spent decades training. You know however long training to be an astronaut and actually compassion You'd rather have a compassionate colleague up there when you're floating around in space than someone who is ruthlessly only. You know if you're and it was, it was simple things like you know being prepared to apologise, asking a question. You know what's going on for you, not just here's what's going on for me, so that kind of give and take and that conversation of quality. So that's always stuck in my mind that I just had this image of you saying if you're, if you're the sole astronaut on board, cause everyone else has said, can I be returned to home? Yeah, houston, you're the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, oh my God, that's so true actually. No, you put it that way, but it is right and I love, I think, because I think Daniel Goleman also talks about it, isn't it that 80% of your success will be because of your emotional intelligence, not your IQ? And I always love these little video clip where he says we all enter the world of work with a level of IQ, but actually the ones that survive and thrive and move on up and up, they have a self-awareness. It starts with self, always starts with self, and I love it. I love this book. I use it, I go back and I just think, oh my God, please read it.
Speaker 1:Well, you've sold it to me. It sounds absolutely brilliant, and I love the fact there are practical exercises in it as well, and then you can start to sort of practice it, and practice makes permanent. As you always say, you know the good stuff as well as the bad stuff. So thank you, because I think I was looking forward to this one, because I'm hearing the word compassionate used more. I didn't really quite understand what it was. So my takeaway from this is it's an umbrella term for being a decent human, of which all of those sort of behaviours we've talked about. But yeah, you don't want to be the last astronaut there going. Oh, it probably means it's all the people I work with.
Speaker 2:Oh, as you're looking in the mirror, maybe it's me. Maybe it work with. Oh, as you're looking in the mirror, maybe it's me. That's so good, I'm gonna keep that law. Oh, okay, that's when, hopefully, the penny drops. Oh, this has been so good. I've loved this series law um, because it gets our brains working and reading the books and reminding ourselves of what we've covered and why it was we picked these books up in the first place. So, yeah, I've loved it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been really brilliant, and the purpose for this I mean it's what's underpinning the podcast in general is continuing professional development is really good for you, not only from a career point of view, but from a cognitive, health, brain point of view. Every day at a school day and rather than sitting there worrying about the future, well, let's learn how we can set up for the future, so we won't hope that everything works all right. We'll plan for everything to be as good as it can be. So, yeah, it's been. Yeah, love book club. I think we'll have to do another one, devs, maybe next year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and if anybody wants us to review any books, then just let us know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, so what this means, of course is we've got a new mini-series, God. Then what are we talking about? Yeah, we're bored of books. Now On to the next one. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Next Done the reading. Ticked on that bit, we've done the reading. Oh, if only that was the case. It's not, is it no? Because we read all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love, yeah, can't everything just stay still for a while? But of course, as nature shows us, yeah, the day you stay still is the day you're in a sense of decay. So we're just gonna, yeah, you know, take it at our own pace, slow and steady, each day, and just you know, yeah, moving forward along the mortal coil. No, I mean to all success and inspiration. Um, yeah, because the uncomfortable truth, of course, is every day is a school day and every day means there's one less day. But anyway, we won't focus on that.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no, because Devs.
Speaker 1:What we are going to focus on in the next topic is inspirational leadership. We are, yes. However, if you're sitting there thinking, oh no, that's not for me, I'm not a leader, well, who knows who can define what leadership is? And actually we're going to have four different takes on it, and one of the ones that I'm really looking forward to is about making the move to first time leader, because it happens once in your career and it brings with it all sorts of highs and lows. So if you're sort of toying with, actually this year maybe I will move into a leadership role big L, little l Then hopefully we'll give some practical things and leadership almost as a lifestyle choice rather than something that's on your payroll. That's the approach we're kind of taking.
Speaker 2:We are yeah, I can't wait for this one. It'll be a good, good conversations, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, got a couple of great guests lined up as well, so, yeah, that'll be good. Good one. In the meantime, debs, have a wonderful week.
Speaker 2:What was?
Speaker 1:your word for this week.
Speaker 2:Oh, mine was organised this week. My word for the week was being organised and yours was what? Manifest, yes, manifest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make it happen.
Speaker 2:And then we had Gayle that had focused, and then we had Carlos on the call earlier that was saying paste. Oh yeah, not pasting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought he said pissed. First of all, what's your word for the week? Pissed, pissed.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, what's your word for the week? Paste. Yeah, yes, not pasting, but paste P-A-C-E-D yeah, yeah, oh, so it was good. So, but P-A-C-E-D, so it was good. So, yeah, our words are there.
Speaker 1:So maybe you could all find.
Speaker 2:If you're listening in, think about your word for the week as well. Yeah, wonderful.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe, if you can't think of one, because your brain's fried compassion, hey, good catch Lord.
Speaker 2:That's the word. I like that Mic drop moment right there.
Speaker 1:You've forgotten the book already. What are the new things? No, we're going to reflect and take a moment.
Speaker 2:I'm going to reflect and take a moment yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh well, have a wonderful week. Love you, Love you too.
Speaker 2:Have a good one, bye.
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