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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
231. Making the Move to First Time Leadership
In this second episode of our 4-part focus on Inspirational Leadership we focus on making the move into your first leadership role. It’s exciting… and if we were to be honest, a little daunting too - so lets not forget that leaders are humans too. In this episode, we break down five essential tips to help you step into leadership with confidence and clarity. From shifting your mindset from “doer” to “enabler,” to leading with consistency (not perfection), we’ll guide you through what it really takes to lead well—right from the start.
We also explore how to navigate the tricky dynamics of managing former peers if you’ve stepped up internally, and share practical ways to tackle any feelings of doubt or imposter syndrome that can creep in when you’re finding your feet.
Whether you’ve just stepped into a leadership role or you're preparing for that next big step, we share real-world advice for making the first 90 days a success.
A reassuring listen for anyone new into to leadership or is considering making the move. The world needs good leaders!
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Debs, hello, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing well. I'm enjoying this little burst of sunshine that the UK seems to be gifting us at the moment.
Speaker 2:I know it's lovely, isn't it? We make the most of it while we can with our stoic leadership.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, yeah, yeah, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That was the theme of last week's podcast episode. It was last week's podcast episode. It was and this one goes out to all you wannabe leaders out there whether that is leadership with a big L and you're formally taking a formal role as a leader, maybe that's leadership more with a little L and you're starting to make the move into taking a bit more seniority. And the focus we're going to have on this week is all about and it happens once in your career, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Debs. It does Only the once. Yes, you've got to make the most of it.
Speaker 1:When you make the move to first-time leadership.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's such an important step and we get asked about this a lot. How do you navigate your way through that transition? Well, and all of the fears that come with it, I think are the things that you know we get asked to do. How do we help people get ready? How do they do with it? You know, all the usual things pop up. Am I good enough? You know how do I manage my friends in inverted commas. So, yeah, it's a real popular one, but it is only happening the once.
Speaker 1:So yeah, because once you've got it on your CV or as part of your identity, that's it. You know, every other sort of move is going to feel like it's a continuation rather than sort of a change in terms of where you sit within the organisation. Yes, so why don't we have to do a bit of a general roundup of four or five top tips for stepping into your first leadership role? Then let's have a look at the role that confidence and self-belief has with that, and then let's end on the wonderful world of peer-to-peer relationships and what happens if you were once buddies and you're now boss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a tricky one to navigate sometimes, and yeah, we'll share some tips as to how you can make it work for you and them ourselves and the team, with all of those people that are rather reflecting on when they first made the move into a leadership role or right in the midst. You know, we run a lot of management essentials type sessions or leadership development programs and it's such an exciting space to be in, because the impact a decent leader can have, not only in workplace performance but individual and team morale, is quite incredible, isn't it, deb? So sell the benefit maybe for maybe someone who's sort of toying with, shall I, shan't I? Oh, it feels all a little bit stressful. Yeah, what impact does being a good leader have on our professional and personal lives?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's massive actually, because if you have got the skills, why would you not utilise them and pass them on to somebody else? And I think that's, for me, is the essence of I've been mentored or I've been given an opportunity, so I'm going to take it, but then how do I create that opportunity for somebody else to also take it when they're ready? And I just think it's that believing in yourself, I think that you can and you've worked really hard to get that promotion or stepping up into that role, which you do. But it can also provide some crazy challenges. We're always listening and learning and having to evolve, depending on what it is we get faced with. So I don't know if anything prepares you for it when you're in it, but I know certainly you can do some preparation about what you could expect or be ready to maybe deal with different things, but as we're dealing with humans, who knows what they're going to bring? So we have to be ready, agile, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, love it. Ok. So let's look at five tips to get you into that state of preparedness. So we do a little bit of sort of play around after we've done each one. So the first one I'd love to get your thoughts on this. Shift from doer to enabler You're no longer just executing tasks, you're empowering others to succeed. So learning to delegate effectively and trust your team how much is this a topic of our time, devs?
Speaker 2:It's a huge topic of our time and it's one of the hardest things I think that new leaders have to get comfortable with, because they can't do it all on their own and if they get the delegation right, it's one of the most powerful things they can do. But it's actually being able to think about getting over yourself, that you're not about to lose control if you delegate it. Well, and I think some first time leaders think oh, it's just easy if I just do it myself, because I've been doing it in part of my day job and I go. Well, that was the whole point. Yes, you did, but now you've stepped out of that day job you were doing into a leadership, so why would you not get somebody else to learn to develop them? So, thinking about that, because I think if you don't delegate, you create a bottleneck because everything is coming through you and I suppose if you get it right, it's about scaling your impact that you have on your teams, on your growing team, and people will want to come and work with you. So I think that's the first one I would just sort of look at, because it's not fast to do it yourself, because you then create a massive hold up with everything and then overwhelm yourself and then get burnt out and work all the hours God sends and that's not going to help you.
Speaker 2:So delegation, I think, is super key and I think about understanding what and how you're going to delegate. You know what is it you're going to do. It's also about making sure you start with, if you like, the repetitive tasks that you you do, that you don't need your level expertise at now. So, again, looking at how you can help somebody else's skills, how you can give it to somebody else in the team that might be better at it than you are, that's another one. So why would you not?
Speaker 2:It's like keeping hold of the stuff that matters, like one-to-ones, should be your responsibility. Making sure you're building the right vision for your team, creating the right culture in your team. They're the, the high stake elements I think you've got to keep an eye on. So why would you not delegate to somebody else? That could benefit from that? But I think also being clear on what is you're going to delegate, the how, the what and the how, making sure you set really clear expectations. You're not just dumping it or abdicating responsibility for it, because ultimately you're still responsible for it and accountable. But if you can enable people to be clear on what the outcome should look like, what the deadlines are, what are the non-negotiables around that, and setting them up for success, not failure, I think that can only help if you're going to delegate well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love it. I remember hearing a phrase once. It always stuck with me if something can be done to 80% of your ability, that would be a prime task to delegate. And I think from a practical point of view, in the first 90 days I know you talk a lot about the first 90 days plan. Maybe that's a great review to do.
Speaker 1:Where are my repetitive easy wins? And then you can then, between you and your team, get a bit of trust going, you know, and getting that confidence up, yeah, which I think links really nicely to the second top tip listen more than you speak. So building trust early by being genuinely curious, asking questions, understanding team dynamics and showing empathy before making big changes, linking that into delegation I guess a core part of that conversation going well is actually asking the other person well, this is the task. What are your thoughts about how you might bring your own style to it, so being able to ask those questions? So I know this is be a topic really close to your heart. What difference can being a leader who actively seeks to create listening opportunities? What difference can that make in real life to performance and morale?
Speaker 2:I think one. It shows that you're willing to let, if you like, hear your people and see, but it also, by enabling somebody else to share with you what they could do, you're putting that ownership on them, you're empowering them to make a decision and knowing that you've got their back at the same time. So the more we can, I suppose, step into a coaching framework of you know well, what do you think you could do here? Have you done something similar in the past? What did you take from that? How might you apply it here? All of those lovely what, how questions enables that person to go.
Speaker 2:I can do this, you know, because you're here to learn and I think that's what we can do. We can help people learn more about the job and by listening to what they're telling you is so important, rather than just waiting to reply or waiting for an answer or just railroading them because you have been there, done it and got the t-shirt, but the idea now is that you're going to pass that on to somebody else. So the more you listen, the more people feel like they are heard and they are getting opportunity and they feel that they matter and that unlocks so much potential in your team and individuals within your team, so why would you not do that?
Speaker 1:Devs.
Speaker 1:What about that?
Speaker 1:I think it was me and Carlos in the room together last week and there was a brilliant example of a manager who had been relatively new in and taken over a team that, quite frankly, had been sort of left to their own devices, left out in the wild, and although they were desperate for a new leader, they were also really nervous about that as well.
Speaker 1:And when we asked him well, how did you have a successful first 90 days? And he said I just had one-to-ones with them all. I found out what they were interested in, they got a feel for me, I got a feel for them, and it was just really great how he talked very simply about, rather than viewing them as the team and this mass of people, he just very quickly had one-to-ones with them all just to take away any fear about what he was there to do and any massive change he was going to have, and then it just meant actually, they became more comfortable about more is going to stay the same than change. We've now just got someone that is going to have our backs and is going to be able to be that good conduit between the senior leaders at the head office.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, and that takes some confidence because sometimes people are a bit fearful of doing that because they might be their peers. But I think that approach approach if you're you coming in to maybe an organization or department, this is your first manager role. Sometimes it's easier to be able to have those conversations because nobody really knows you, but that I know we're going to come on to that pick and moving from you know, dealing with your peers. But I think that ability to get to know people now as in in this moment, not what you know, ability to get to know people now as in in this moment, not what you know before, but getting to know them for who they are, what they love, what they don't like, and just, yeah, just spending time with them, not just jumping straight in, which I've seen some first managers do is they've just gone right, everybody.
Speaker 2:This is what we're going to do, this is how we're going to do it and I want you to do this now. They're very much command and control, which I know we talked about in the last series, but it's not about that. It's like I'm going to find out first, I'm going to be curious, I'm going to not be in control, if you like, straight away, but I'm going to be using my curious mindset to find out as much as I can about you, because then that's going to help me right? If I can understand what you love and what you hate and I can share what I love and what I don't like, then we are very clear, if you like, on what the boundaries are and what the expectations are.
Speaker 1:Oh, which Debs links beautifully onto the third big top tip that we put together yes, Setting clear expectations. So clarity beats control. Yes, defining the goals, roles and standards early Ambiguity just creates confusion and misalignment. And actually being really clear If you're a mystery and people have got to sort of infer from what they think you meant, then that can be really stressful. If you're, you know for both sides, you know as a new leader doing that first leadership role. If you're thinking I just don't know if they're getting me or not, then to be able to plan what's the impact I want to have and what's the message I want to give, so any thoughts where you've seen that work in real life in a good way to set clear expectations.
Speaker 2:Yes, I have. I remember working with a team of people that were all on a management excellence program, who were not quite managers yet, and we did an exercise with them about how would they cover their first input into the team. So that's when we sort of said about the 90 days what does that first day look like? When you're taking over a new team? What does the first week look like? What goals are you setting for yourself, not necessarily for the team. So, therefore, their plan they had a planned approach to it which enabled them to feel in control to some extent of their what they were asking or what they were doing, and I think that was the bit that really helped them to go. Oh, I'm not. I don't suppose I'm meant to know it all on day one. No, you might have been in the same department, but when you step up into people it's very different. So I think it took away some of the fear of I'm supposed to know everything that goes on here and I've got to have it all together and I've got to know what I'm doing and look like I know what I'm doing because somebody's going to tell me and it. No, you don't. That's the whole point. And, and if you have a really good line manager above you, they're going to hopefully nurture you with a 90-day plan that moves you nicely into this new role that you've got. So for me, the 90-day plan is the thing to to think about and plan one for you, but also what work with your line manager and what that 90-day transition looks like for you from peer to manager and then vice versa.
Speaker 2:For you as an individual, what would your goals be? What's your vision for the first week? How do you want to show up? I think one of them, one person, said does that mean I have to change my clothes? I said what do you mean? Change your clothes? They go. Well, do I now have to turn up in really smart business wear? I went no, why would you think that? Well, everybody does. I went what in this organization? And because they're so casual, you wouldn't know who who is who. And I went you don't have to do that. I go oh, that's all right then, but that was their little niggle, that they had to show up in a suit or a you know two-piece or something very formal.
Speaker 1:Dev, do you know? I just remember a really hilarious conversation I had with a dear friend of mine, karen, who, out of my friendship circle, was one of the first to have a baby. Yes, yes, so we always do ask her questions, you know what's it like Karen having a baby.
Speaker 1:And I remember when I was pregnant, I remember asking her what do I wear when I'm a mum? She went what do you mean? I said, well, do I need to start wearing blouses? And she went would you wear blouses now? And I went, no, no, and blouses now? And I went, no, no, and she went well, don't wear blouses. Then and I said, okay.
Speaker 1:She said it's just you, it's just you've got, you know, yeah, and you, you've set responsibilities but it's still you, but it stuck with me about this idea of well, when I'm a mum, I need to wear a blouse and have my glasses on a chain, you know?
Speaker 2:oh my god, laura, I would love to have seen that.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, like what am I talking about? Who's this perception I have of this job? But I think that's a really interesting thing these perceptions of yeah, oh, it suddenly means I've got to be a whole new person and yeah, actually it's still you and I know you'll talk about this in our next little chunk. But that's the reason why you've been asked to be the leader, because of you, because of you yeah, suddenly having this big personality transplant? No, um, oh it's hilarious, so hilarious.
Speaker 2:That was funny yeah.
Speaker 1:So shift from doer to enabler. Listen more than you speak, set clear expectations. The fourth and the fifth one, we'll give a light touch and we'll move on to the next bits. But stay coachable. Leadership is a skill, not a title. Seek feedback, find mentors and reflect. Often your growth sets the tone for the team. Yeah, practical recommendations, debs. How much is too much focusing on yourself and your own development? Where's the sweet spot of like duration, frequency? What would you say would be a good habit to start out on when you're first getting into leadership?
Speaker 2:As in how much you focus on you. I think again, if you've worked out your, hopefully you would have sat down and had some objectives set for you in your new role. I always find it fascinating that people will apply for a leadership, first-time manager role and they read through the job spec and they read through the person spec and they use it to go through the interview. Then they get the job and they might have a bit of time before they actually start the job and I always say, well, have you reread the job description? And they go what I go? Have you reread the job description? Because there's your objectives right there.
Speaker 2:You can also create your own development plan, because there'll be, hopefully, things on there that you're not fully up to date with or fully competent in yet. So you can start to use that to create where's my development? What am I doing? So there is an element of putting your plan in place, but it's not at the cost of your people, and I think it's the same sort of approach that how do I enable my people Because they've still got their own development goals and they've still got their wants and needs. So how do I make sure in that one-to-one, as you were saying get to know them, what are they working on, what's their aspirations, all of that stuff so you can start creating a similar plan for them.
Speaker 2:Because we have our PGPs, right Personal development plans, and we have a performance review in inverted commas meeting. But I always think you know, as we've always said, the clues in the title, there's got to be an element of personal development, so finding out what one thing that person wants to work on for themselves. I think that will be amazing if you could do that, because it may not be work related but it's personal, and if you can enable that, then you've already sort of bought, if you like, some of that trust and respect in, because you've listened to them and heard them, not just railroaded them in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tell you what Deb. So, as a first time leader, this may be something that you know that you really put as a priority. I actively want to invest in my team's personal and professional development, but let's say you're not getting it yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have to say it is mind blowing if you ask ChatGPT to create a PDP, so let's say you've never had a PDP created for you and you're thinking, oh you know, and you sort of want to do a bit of a Google and sort of find out ideas to set one for yourself, then be able to role model it for your team. If you upload that job description, obviously take out you know, the company name or whatever. But if you then ask ChatGPT, write me a three month personal development plan of what I should be working on, Wow, it's quite incredible what it will come up with and of course, it will be as unique as your own job description.
Speaker 1:So if you're sort of sitting listening, thinking, yeah, I'm a type of person that wants a structure. I want some ideas to put together that PDP for yourself. If you're not fortunate enough to work in an organisation that invests in that to you, well, it doesn't mean that you have to pass that right on. You can be that sort of new bit of momentum. And yeah, chat GPT is a fantastic way to tailor that around your job description. That's so cool.
Speaker 2:No, I never even thought about that, lord, but now you've said that that makes sense to have, even as a framework to start with. If you're not sure, I think the other thing you could probably do is get yourself a mentor. I think find a mentor if you're not being supplied with one. Ask for or find a mentor that can help you as a little bit of an advocate, but also somebody who can bounce ideas off of and just share your experiences, so you just don't like a rabbit in the headlights. I don't know where to go for this, whereas if you engage with a mentor, that's always good. Someone outside of your team who's been there before will give you good feedback, will give you some good wisdom and you some good say. You know wisdom and things like that that you can apply. So I think that's you know. That's really important.
Speaker 2:I think, if you haven't got one, find one um and then work with that person as you're getting into the role of it um and, I think, honestly, be kind to yourself as well during this time. You're not, you're not expected to know it all. You're gonna make mistakes well, and I know, certainly in my days back in HR, whenever I had a brand new manager that had to do an appeal hearing or a grievance or disciplinary. They were more nervous than the person being disciplined. So, again, it's being mindful of.
Speaker 2:What policies do I now need to be aware of as a new manager, just to not learn them inside out, but just to know that they exist, so that if now need to be aware of as a new manager, just to not learn them inside out, but just to know that they exist, so that, if you need to, you can refer to them or you can ask HR if you've got a good HR team, or just so you have this awareness now that suddenly you have to be aware of what are our policies and procedures. How do we manage absence and lateness and the things that might go wrong? How do we manage performance? Well, all of that stuff that should be part of your bread and butter now, which you can do before you start your actual role. There's nothing. Most policies are on the intranet, I would have thought, in companies now, so there's nothing wrong with starting to have a read through them and seeing what they say, but looking at it as if you are already the manager.
Speaker 1:Deb, what a brilliant way to articulate a practical example that HR knowledge. That links to the fifth and final top tip Lead with consistency, not perfection. So your team doesn't need a flawless leader, they need a steady one. Show up consistently with integrity and accountability, and I think that's a brilliant way to sort of sum that up. So, debs, those are some five top tips. They're brilliant, yeah, really good for how to set up for the first 90 days. Yes, let's do a little bit of a dive on two particular areas. So I guess the question I'd love to hear your thoughts on is how important is confidence and self-belief when making that move to first time leadership?
Speaker 2:Laura, let's delve deeper into that one. That's such a great question because imposter syndrome does take over and we hear it quite a lot. Because it's about actually what does good leadership look like? And, as you said, you don't need to know everything, but what you need. You're here to learn, as you said, not to be perfect, and I think that's what's really important, because you've suddenly moved from being, if you like, the expert in your part of the business to then be more of a guide. So sometimes, if you take the pressure off yourself and say, ok, I can reframe my role because I do know my stuff, and then I can be a guide for others and enable them to navigate their way through the process of work.
Speaker 2:I think the other one for me when it comes to that is please don't chase approval or validation for everything that you're doing. You got the job because you are good at it, not because somebody thought, oh yeah, why not? So you got it, you worked hard for it, you interviewed for it, so they wouldn't have given it to you just on a whim. So you've got to lose that thing that maybe I'm not good enough. Well, if you weren't, you wouldn't have got the job in the first place. So I think it's making sure that you're recognizing what you have done to achieve it, recognizing your achievements. As you go through your 90 day plan, you know, reflect at the end of the week what have I achieved? Tick, yeah, give yourself a star, and I think this. Sometimes you just need to hear from others as well that, yeah, well, that's normal. When so-and-so happens or this happens, yeah, that's a normal process. So you're not thinking this is out of my control because somebody else would have done it before you and be able to give you that advice.
Speaker 2:I think also the language we use when we're talking about being an imposter I'm not good enough or I shouldn't. How did they give me this job? I'm going to get caught out All of those things that we hear. And actually it's about again reframing it to say, well, if I was rubbish, I wouldn't have got this job. So therefore, they've chosen me to do this job because I am amazing and I have got that. So know what your thoughts are doing to drive the way you're behaving. And I think also, the more you do, the better you get, the more confident you get, so the better you're practicing these things and reaching out and asking people. I think most people I've met are very happy to help a first-time manager because they've been them before themselves and know how hard it can be. So, I think, asking for support, and if you've got good people, they will remember how it was for them and they will be there to help you. So, yeah, I think, just give it a go with some support around you.
Speaker 1:Two reflections to add in on that. You know I get all feisty about this concept of imposter syndrome because I think, it's just a made up thing to keep good people down and.
Speaker 2:I know you feel the same as well as clickbait.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do. Yeah, I was running a session. It was for one of our clients last week, a railway client, and it was, yeah, one of the aspects they wanted to talk about was imposter syndrome, and I think a few of them were saying in the end, actually, I quite enjoyed your reframe of it because I said, all right, well, surely the only people that never worry about whether they're good or not, have never any doubts about the impact they're having on others, or are they equipped for it, is a psychopath or a sociopath, that's true. So actually, sort of wear those kind of self-doubts and those kind of queries, wear them with pride, because it's an indication that you care about doing the best that you can and having a you know, a decent impact on people.
Speaker 1:So that's a way to reframe it, thinking hmm, it's only a sociopath that wouldn't give two hoots about whether they were equipped for the role or not Just to banish it away?
Speaker 1:To be human and to be values. Led means, you know, guess what? You're going to be conscious and conscientious of the impact you have. And the second reflection that sort of really links to that is so let's say, we've had lots of conversations in the rooms over the years around a leader wanting to mix up the team meetings, for example. So let's say they're inheriting a team, or their first time leader leading a team with whom there hasn't been very high quality meetings. So a leader has a plan of right. I'm going to ask the team for their ideas and we're going to have like a creativity 15 minute at the end of each of our weekly meetings.
Speaker 1:Now you might have been planning that in your head for like three or four weeks, but actually the others may not be used to that.
Speaker 1:They haven't practiced that skill. So there might be sort of awkward tumbleweed moments for the first one or two meetings because people aren't quite used to this new way. But by the third and fourth one there'll be a familiar pattern and then you'll start to see the ball rolling. So I think, with that imposter syndrome, don't give up, as you're seeing other people's learning curves adjusting with some of the shifts and the changes and the tweaks that you might want to put in, and give people a heads up saying let's move things around a little bit. Yeah, let's have a Q&A session or an idea session at the end of our weekly meeting. Yeah, this is the type of thing we can cover to give people a heads up and then you know if people are a bit starstruck or a bit stunned or sort of don't know what to say is not because of you, it's because they haven't practiced it and maybe the previous manager was not open to those types of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a good point, yeah, laura, I think. And letting people know that you're going to try something else. But I mean that can apply to whether you're a first time manager or, you know, senior seasoned manager. If you're not setting people up well and you're trying to introduce something different, everybody's going to go. What? Because we don't like change, do we? Or you know, that's a bit weird. So if, as long as you've set them up with it, then people will go okay, let's see what happens. It's like giving a go, but I think, yeah, that's a really important one actually to just set them up well.
Speaker 1:So, debs, linking nicely onto that, I'd love to get your thoughts on advice you would give for someone that is making the move and they're staying within their existing ecosystem. So, let's say, I've been one of those people on those dull team meetings for the last seven years and then now, in a month's time, I'm going to be chairing it as the new, as the new leader, with all of the same people of which I was one of those before. So, yeah, I think it'd be fascinating just to end on this episode looking at peer to peer relationships when one of you is making the Lord, this is a real fascinating one.
Speaker 2:I think we get asked this a lot how am I going to manage my friends? How do I tell them that they haven't done something right? And I think the first thing, and as you said earlier, is to have that one-to-one conversation with your former peers as soon as possible and the earlier on. And even if you're working that into your 90-day plan, make sure that in that first week you're starting those one-to-ones, depending on how big your team is. So making sure that's a chunk that you've also shared with your line manager to let them know that's what you're going to be doing. So I think, one-to-ones first and then it could be a team discussion after that in week two or three or whatever it might be. But I think sometimes we just have to rip the bandaid off and say what it is like. You know, name the elephant in the room, if you like, because most people will respect that honesty over avoiding it. So we always say you know a bit of a script you can use if people want to use it before, which we've shared with people is.
Speaker 2:I know this changes things a bit. I do value our relationship and I want to lead in a way that respects the trust we've already built and that then opens up the conversation to say, oh, okay, okay. So therefore, what does the expectation look like on there? We reset them together, understand what the workload looks like, what objectives they are. Being able to keep that communication open and healthy, I think, is really really important.
Speaker 2:And asking you know, letting them know how decisions are going to be made, you know what collaboration will look like and you can build on that as part of a team event if you wanted as well and what you will still expect from that relationship. I think you know you still want them to work hard. If they were working hard in the team with you, you still want them to do that and you value their contribution. So it's really fascinating, I think, as you're stepping into that, to have that, because I think it's like a speed of masterclass on suddenly, I suppose, or a crash course in self-awareness and communication, and you've got to be really quick on it, but I think for me that's really important.
Speaker 1:So acknowledge who it is Debs repeat that sentence again, because I think that is golden. So what was that sentence again? I?
Speaker 2:know this changes things a bit. I value our relationship and I want to lead in a way that respects the trust we've already built.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that and you know, as I was listening to you saying that, I just wanted to test, would that work? Let's say, two of us went for the job yeah, I got it. Yeah, would that still work as a sturdy enough, let's grab a coffee and sit and chat about it? Yeah, I think it would yeah sturdy enough to be able to lean into that. That's brilliant.
Speaker 2:And plus, you've taken actually you've ripped the bandaid off, so there's no awkwardness to me. Well, I'll wait for her to speak to me. Oh, my goodness, just rip the plaster off and I'll do it. If you're the person that's, you know, maybe got the job, or I know, I value our relationship. So how are we going to work together again, you know? So again, you might instigate that conversation. Or if you're the one being promoted, you should instigate that conversation. So I think it's a two-way street. If you have that relationship with them, so that's yeah.
Speaker 2:I think also, don't be one of the gang, because you've got to let go of that you are. You're no longer one of the gang, if you like. You've got to accept your role is different and now and you'll be having different objectives, you'll have different things that you're working on. You don't need to overshare or be everyone's best friend to be respected. I just think trying to be too buddy-buddy, people just think they might lead it to either overstepping boundaries or thinking it's favoritism. So I think how do you deal with the respect I think is more sustainable than approval from others. So, again, knowing what you're bringing, setting it up well for yourself, Fairness, I think consistency in your approach to things that people will look for, making sure that you're listening.
Speaker 2:As you said, you've got to take the guesswork out of what you're going to be doing with them and keep reflecting and listening to what's being said. I think you know what's something you're seeing in me that I'm not doing, that I should be doing. How do you think I'm handling this transition? I'd be welcome to your, you know. Your feedback, you know anything like that shows that your willingness to want to be as best as you can be and you, you know. You don't know it, you don't know it all yet.
Speaker 1:Do you know you'd be hard pressed to find someone grumbling in an exit interview. Well, well, the reason why I'm leaving is my new boss. Oh, it's just trying too hard to get the best out of me. Yeah, I mean you. Just you wouldn't. I guess it's that fine line if you don't want to be needy and asking every Friday, do you like me? You know, but just those little moments every now and then, of of getting some some two-way feedback, it can be a game changer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:So, Debs, I've really enjoyed this. I think it's a very practical episode focus that we've done on. As you said, it happens once in your career, so you might be listening and this is, you know, real relevant for you right now. You might have a friend or a colleague for whom this is, you know, prime time to listen to this. So I guess my share. The secret for handing over you to call the action is if you've got a friend or a colleague who is about to start their first leadership role or is umming and ahhing about whether to go for it, but it's maybe got some worries about what it might be when they get the role, get them to listen to this, because leaders are human too. It's still you. You don't have to start wearing a blouse and having your glasses on a chain or wearing a formal two-piece suit. It's still you. It's just you've got an air of responsibility around you and you're the one now who may have more power to be able to make things better.
Speaker 2:And that's the joy of leadership. Oh it is, and it's such a privileged position to be in, I think.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, people enjoy it, if you love people, you'll be a great leader If you don't love people, don't be a leader is what I would always say.
Speaker 2:Stick to whatever it is you love to do, but them. I think that I've written down here, I thought, which goes back ask questions, be inquisitive, be curious. Keep asking questions of people. You know. What do they like, how do they want to be managed, what do they want to see? All of that and be curious, I think, is my one. Definitely.
Speaker 2:Make sure you've got a plan of action, your 90-day plan, knowing and maybe doing some prep work at how you're going to introduce something or how you're going to set expectations. So don't just think you can walk in and wing it. I think the preparation and planning beforehand will give you the confidence as well. And I think, keep on reflecting. Leadership is constantly changing and evolving, so the more your practice is not a title, as you said earlier. It's a practice of being a leader, and I think that's what we need to think of. And I think, yeah, keep leading from the heart. I think that's always mine. Yes, we have to make decisions with our heads and everything else, but I think lead with your heart, because that will guide you well.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, I love it. Um so, debs, thank you for this. This has been the second in our four-part focus, looking at inspirational leadership. It has. I think we've got a couple of guests lined up for our next one yes, we have good to mix things up and hear different perspectives and different people, so really looking forward to that one. In the meantime, have a glorious week you too, law.
Speaker 2:I'm in the room with some newish leaders managers, so that should be fun. Let's see what tips they might share with us. Yeah, fabulous.
Speaker 1:Oh well, have a fabulous week, you too love you bye we hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secretsfromacoachcom, or follow us on Insta or Facebook. If you're a Spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacoachcom, and sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work.