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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
238. Combatting Death Star Workplace Dynamics
In this energising episode, we shine a light on the darker corners of workplace culture—the ones that feel more like the Death Star than a thriving Rebel base. Whether it's low morale, reactive behaviours, silent tension, or full-blown conflict, these dynamics can quietly sabotage performance, collaboration, and wellbeing. We share practical ways to swap out Storm Trooper compliance for Super Trouper energy.
We explore how to recognise the early warning signs that a culture needs a reset—the small 'whispers' in a team that often go unheard until it’s too late. You'll hear practical tools for addressing toxic undercurrents, mediating conflict with confidence, and guiding teams back toward trust, connection, and future-focused thinking.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to shift their organisation from drained and divided to hopeful and high-performing. Because even the most entrenched Death Star dynamics can be dismantled—with the right insight, intention, and just a touch of Rebel spirit.
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training.
Speaker 2:Debs, laura, you alright.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm doing well. I'm super excited about this episode that we're going to be talking about celebrating all things Star Wars, inspired by May the 4th Star Wars Day.
Speaker 2:What's been some of your favourite moments so far in our previous four episodes I think the links that have been made to the film itself and how well the films can translate into everyday interactions in the workplace because we have a hierarchy that goes on collaborate well and I think those references that we've had have just been brilliant. And I think when we look at the world of film and then we can align them and you'd always use a great analogies anyway but if we can lift one world and translate it and put over into another, suddenly it becomes real and it's not something odd or weird. And that's what I've loved about our series and talking to all our guests, like you know, talking to carl and kerry and also to nigel, and the way they've made the link. It just means it's accessible for all.
Speaker 1:I've loved it yeah, me too, and of course that's why stories are such a unique human bit. It enables us to be able to communicate and connect with people from all sorts of different backgrounds and all sorts of different experiences, because that hero goes on a journey. Storyline is the story archetype since the dawn of time and you know, star wars just does it in such a brilliant way. Good versus evil, yeah, and talking of evil, go on what we what we're talking about today, law.
Speaker 2:This is the last one. I can't believe it, but go on then. What are we doing today? So there you are, on the Death.
Speaker 1:Star right and you're one of the first two of the team that sort of arrive and it's lovely because you get to set the tone of the culture and then suddenly all them lot start coming in and you've got this potential kind of hot cooking pot, this hot zone of all of these people, different beliefs, different backgrounds, all having to work with each other in extreme proximity. And what we're going to be looking at in this final of this five part focus is battling Death Star workplace dynamics. So, whether you are a startup business, that was all fun and games in the early days and then you started recruiting and you've got more people now and suddenly the old school first people are feeling a bit miffed because they don't feel like they've got the voice that they're used to. Maybe you're part of a big organisation where there's so many people that actually you might feel like it's tricky to kind of get your voice out there. So you know you start up a secret WhatsApp group to get some empowerment.
Speaker 1:So I'm really looking forward to this one, debs, and I guess we're going to have a look at what are some examples that maybe we've seen in our time around not great workplace dynamics. What might that mean in terms of some practical steps forward, and what are some tools and techniques that we can all equip ourselves with? On the good days we'd do it, but it's on the tough days where these little tools and techniques can be useful, because it can lead to some emotions running high, debs and just sort of set the scene. What impact can negative, poor, toxic team dynamics have on people's real life?
Speaker 2:Oh, a huge law from a mental health perspective on its own. You know, people dread coming into the workplace or they dread having to work with somebody in the team and they will avoid at some times where it gets to the point where I've seen, you know, people break down, gone off on long-term sick, cannot come back into the workplace because of the trauma that it's created within them and nobody was listening as well. Nobody heard, nobody listened, but then they may not have felt comfortable, confident, going back to self-belief that Nigel was talking about, to speak up either. So it can have such a detrimental effect on somebody's mind health, which then takes them out of the game. Basically and it's sad when that happens and toxicity people come and go. People don't stay around for long if there's a toxic environment and they will leave. You know most people will leave their boss. Then they will leave the job.
Speaker 2:And that's always difficult, especially in today's market where you know it's hard to get jobs. You know, at the moment, especially if you're looking for something that's going to fulfill you and a couple of coaching conversations I've been having with individuals has been actually, I just want to feel like I'm adding value somewhere and suddenly they've shifted from where they might have wanted to go and the belief that they had there to go in. Realistically, I'm going to go here or go sideways or look at my transferable skills to take me into a better place which has a good workspace and a good feel and a flow and the culture feels right for them. So people are looking at cultures. Is it the right fit for me? It's not necessarily the job anymore. I mean that helps, obviously, but a lot more people are exploring what is the culture and asking questions around that so they can get under the surface. Because we've all been on interviews right where we've been sold the dream and then we turn up on day one and we go. Is this the same place when?
Speaker 1:am I.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like I've been transported to some random place and it just was not the same. And yeah, people are getting smarter at asking better questions about culture.
Speaker 1:So important Fab. So what when someone then reveals that, oh, by the way, our founder is Mr Vader? Yes, have you not met him yet? No, so let's explore this idea of culture, and I've got a couple of examples just to sort of bring it to life.
Speaker 2:So, laura, you were mentioning earlier in our intro about those differences that can show up between small companies, startups, larger organizations. So in you know, in your experience of you, because we work with so many different, different spaces and people and places, what have you noticed is the difference. When it does come to that, what goes on as the dynamic in the workplace across small or start-up, small, medium, large organisations? What have you seen?
Speaker 1:Well, I think every organisation has its own kind of sort of unique challenges, but one of the storylines that I've seen a number of times over the last 20-odd years you know working in this kind of field is there is a moment where you've seen a number of times over the last 20 odd years, you know working in this kind of field is there is a moment where you've got a startup founder who has brought on board their first few people and it's very easy to set the cultural tone when there's only 10 to 20 of you. Yeah, very, very subtle things like we clear away our breakfast stuff, or do we even eat at our desks, or do we eat in the kitchen and do we clear away our stuff, do people bother unpacking and packing the dishwasher, like all of these little simple housekeeping things that actually, if you're a startup founder, you're going to be hugely. You're going to take that to heart because you're the person that chose which premises to be in and you selected all of this stuff. But it's very easy if there's only a few of you to be able to get culturally inducted and you know, by osmosis you just sort of pick that up. Where then the sort of cracks can start to show is when you go then to over 50 people, because how do you, first of all, not all 50 might be there in the office at one time and receive all the briefing, and so the larger the population you've got within your team, the easier it is for some of these cultural things that aren't written anywhere but just are sort of there as this tacit intangible. This is what it means to work around here, which is probably the easiest way to describe culture, so that culture is the mix of all those different people's values, beliefs, attitudes and behaviours.
Speaker 1:So in a small organisation. So I had a fascinating conversation with someone a couple of weeks agoours. So in a small organisation. So I had a fascinating conversation with someone a couple of weeks ago. So they are a small and growing business. But even now, as a small, growing business, there are setbacks way outside the control, with political changes, tariffs and all that kind of stuff, that is, the noise surrounding trading.
Speaker 1:At the moment They've got about 10 trading outlets and one of the challenges that they are experiencing is things are just turning a bit negative. There is gossip happening, one person's not happy with the founder's decision and is sort of making it their business to tell everyone else all the problems that they're having, and it's kind of turned from this happy-go-lucky, lovely culture into actually that something that just feels quite depressing and quite negative and leaves a bit of a weird feeling in your tummy. And so what the desire then is to is let's kind of clean things up a bit and get a bit of clarity. And when we were sort of discussing well, what do you think has kind of led to that? It kind of sort of led to two things that I've seen play out over the time is number one how clear is everyone on the vision? What are we going for? What do we stand for? How are we going to work together?
Speaker 1:And actually, if you've got someone who is a bit shoot from the hip, a bit reactive in their decisions when you're the senior leader, then that's where it can feel a bit unsettling, because people aren't sure which sort of direction we're going.
Speaker 1:And if you're not sure, then you are going to create certainty in your life, which is you're going to create certainty by basically talking negatively about what's happening, because it just creates that sense of companionship, even though it might be a negative conversation.
Speaker 1:And the second challenge as well is where maybe if the pressure's on, so if takings are down, it can shift maybe into a blame culture, so because someone might be looking to protect themselves. So it just sort of shows a bit of an absence of trust. And I do wonder, debs I don't want to keep banging on about hybrid working but I do wonder how much of this is influenced by, if we're not in the room together, having eye contact, having that chemistry, how these things can splinter. So one of my first recommendations was they said I think we need some virtual sessions and I said I strongly recommend we get everyone in the room and then we have a big conversation about what's our vision, what does it mean to run successfully as a senior leadership team between now and 2030 and get everyone physically in the room and then you can do virtual stuff after, which is convenient.
Speaker 1:So, absence of a vision and when the pressure's on how it can turn into blame, how does that sort of reflect with what your experiences have been?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got a question. Actually, I want to ask around that, based on what you were saying, it's interesting, isn't it? With a small startup or founder or family business that grows and everything else, and this is a right, and I haven't even thought about this question, just popped into my head so I was just going to ask it of you. Law, yeah, who do you think is ultimately responsible for shaping that culture? Because, if you think startup, the family they set up, they want to take a step back. They entrust supposedly entrust others to run their business for them, but who is responsible ultimately for the culture to continue in the right way?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's such a good question. I think there's a couple of different layers to that. So, ultimately, if your name is still above the door and you still have an influence, so even if that sort of startup founder has said, right, I'm going to take my foot off the pedal, I'm going to empower my team, but if still, sideways, through the back door, you're having influence, then you're still having an influence. So I think there has to be a conscious decision of I am going to completely empower my team and we'll just catch up once a year. Or if I'm sort of pretending to empower my team but I'm still lurking around and getting involved in every decision and, you know, maybe disempowering my senior leadership team, then there's got to be an awareness check.
Speaker 1:I mean, people can only be what they see, and in an organization you tend to look up, and so whoever is the highest person, you're going to have the biggest shadow over your teams. So I guess we all have responsibility for the culture we bring in our everyday practice, but ultimately the biggest shadow is going to be cast by the most senior person in the room. And if you might've pretended to have let go of it, but you know, and that's really tricky. I mean, if I had a big startup business that has suddenly arrived at 500 teams. People in the team, you know, and you were there sorting out payroll number 0001, of course you're going to be passionate about things being done in the team, you know, and you were there sorting out payroll number 0001. Yes, of course you're going to be passionate about things being done in the right way, but the skills that got you to here might not get you there. So, to answer your question, I think it's whoever the senior authority, most senior authority figure. Yeah, that's where the ultimate responsibility lies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to not just leave it to chance, right, if we just leave it to chance what goes wrong? We've seen it go wrong, haven't we?
Speaker 1:Well, if you're leaving it to chance, your culture is then getting influenced by the most charismatic, powerful person, and that might not be the person that you want to, then do it. For example, if you've got someone who has no positional power, but they are the one that visits these 10 outlets sharing news and gossip they might be lowest rung from a positional point of view, but the most popular and a big influence, so that would be described as an architect, so an architect within the culture then you've got to handle that and bring them on side, make sure that they feel empowered or maybe make a different decision, but it's not always the highest ranking person that has the biggest influence.
Speaker 2:And that's quite hard to, I suppose, battle back against, isn't it? If we go down the Star Wars theme about battling, if you're seeing that happening, it's like, oh, I'm not sure where my position is in this organization Because, as you said, payroll 001 was there from day one. Suddenly, maybe the person going around sharing everything. But how do people overcome that? Or start to navigate their way through, I suppose, all of the stuff that's coming their way, the meteorites in the sky how do they navigate their way through that?
Speaker 1:Well, I just love your very simple notice choose and act. Yes, so notice what's going on. And actually what led to the call through to me was is I have serious concerns about the longevity of our organisation.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, if we don't address it now, because people are going to start leaving, Just as you said at the start if it feels horrible and nasty, even though you might love the profession you're in, then you know if it's spoiling your downtime, then no job is worth that you know. And at some point people go. That's it actually, I've had enough. Or their family members tell them time to go, you've got to go.
Speaker 2:I can't handle any more of this Friday night you talking about all these horrible people you work with or dreading going back into work on the Monday or the first day you're back. Yeah, that's no way to live, is it so I think, notice choose.
Speaker 1:What is my role in all of this? You know my favourite phrase if you're stuck in traffic, you are traffic. Yes, If there's only 10 of you in the team and you're one of those, you're 10% of the culture. So you might not be able to change it all at once, but you can certainly make some actions. So no, just choose and act. What might be one difference? It could be as simple, Debs, as you're about to get into what you feel is going to be a gossipy conversation and you take the decision to put a boundary in which is, actually, can we focus on what we can do? On this one, Because it's starting to drag me down talking about all the reasons why we can't, and you just take that stand and it's just that one little. You can do it in quite a light way, but it's assigning some of those boundaries into that conversation around that, Because it takes two to gossip.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, and then you get a collective and then you can. It just filters out.
Speaker 1:And then the stormtroopers come piling through the door.
Speaker 2:Deb, they're already primed and coming at you and there's no stopping them sometimes, and that's when it runs away from you. Right, it does, deb, is it?
Speaker 1:F-1360?. What's the stormtrooper that breaks away?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you know that better than I do.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. Well, I've just triggered and wound up every Starforce fan by getting the wrong. But yeah, you don't have to stay in that stormtrooper, you can choose to do it in a slightly different way. Don't be a clone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't be a clone. That's true, don't be a clone, but that's what we're saying, isn't? It Is having that ability to know who you are and what's important for you and stand up and speak and be a certain all that lovely stuff that we talked about. You know about your inner presence, with Carl and again with Nigel around that and creating a great environment that Kerry talked about around you know so people know where they stand and get great feedback around it.
Speaker 1:And I think in larger organisations you've sort of got the same but just sort of magnified a bit. So do you remember that session we ran a couple of years ago now and I don't know if it's an official term or whether we just made it up on the hoof Debs, but about the whispers within a culture.
Speaker 1:So you've got the formal communication about these are our values and these are our expectations, and then you've got the whispers. So the whispers is what gets said behind closed doors, before or after meetings. And of course, in hybrid working it's maybe easier to have those whispered conversations because you know you might not have as much airtime with each other to have those conversations. But the sort of the whispers is again looking at. Are people clear on what it is we're supposed to do? And if we're not clear, then that can create a bit of frustration, resentment, panic. So in order to defuse that, because there might be some negative thoughts too big to keep inside your own head, you're going to have that conversation. What is it? Our colleague Lynn calls it Fraternalistic degradation. That's right, yes, yes, which is? Oh, debs is looking a little bit too happy. I don't like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because it's a horrible reminder that my mindset is my choice, and I'm going to keep myself in victim mode by saying to Debs yeah, but remember what they said at that quarterly team meeting. And so I sort of wind you up, and then that means I've got a bit of equilibrium there, which makes it easier for me to stay in that negative mindset. Yeah, so from a large organization perspective, you know, if there are a couple of thousand or many thousands of you, then there's more and more opportunity for some of those little whispers to then actually influence the culture in terms of what happens in a moment of truth when you're making a decision. Do I put my camera on in this meeting, yes, or do I keep my camera off?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I suppose that links into that whole piece around how you set it up. Well, do you create that inclusive culture right as well, and you know to ensure that people are heard and respected. And I suppose communication I mean fundamentally that underpins everything, isn't it? The way you create a great way of communicating, in whatever form you take. I think that's. And being clear, I suppose, as it gets bigger and bigger, on what the roles and responsibilities are. And you know, just setting the expectations for people and being honest rather than have the whispers going around the yes buts. We never stick to those values. You go oh, but I thought they were really important. Nah, they're just there on the wall because they look nice and that sets doubt in people's minds. Then doesn't it as well? It can be really hard.
Speaker 1:Devs, I'd love to hear from you. So let's say, we've practiced notice, choose and act. And you've noticed, yep, there's stuff going on. I can see it, I can sense it, I can hear it, you know, tangibly it's got a consequence potentially people are going to start leaving or sales are going to go down because potentially that's going to impact a customer or patient or a client service in that moment, because it's going to sort of leak out. So let's say someone's thinking right, we need to, we need to, we need to clear this up here because if these things are left unchecked, they can build, it can become permanent, things can fester and the rock can set in. I'd love to hear from your experience, Debs, what does that mean in terms of having that conversation or beginning that chain of events to refresh what might be setting in as a bit of rot in that culture. So I'd love to hear your practical thoughts on what that might mean and what that looks like.
Speaker 2:Law. We've just done some work around that with somebody and it becomes nobody is working collaboratively, nobody. There's such distrust, no accountability for how we're being, and it just is horrible. And so in my experience, it's always you have to get around the table, just like you were saying. You know we have to get around the table, see our eyes and chat about what's going on and being able to set the tone of how that is. And you know, one of the things we love doing is going in and working with teams that maybe aren't functioning as well as they could be for a number of different reasons.
Speaker 2:But that very first intervention is about making sure that we come in and we arrive now, in this moment. How are you arriving today and taking that time at the very beginning to just find out who people are in the room? And I think that's what gets missed sometimes is we're so focused on the task and the doing or the mechanics of something or the process of something or the policies around something that we forget that the people that are working within them are people, and if we don't take time to just regroup and find out where that individual is right now, we all have a backstory. As we've said, and I think one of the things that's really important is to set up the work first of all, the working agreement. I think. Then it's making sure that we're clear and that's how we're going to be. So it's with intent. So I have a choice I'm not on autopilot. I'm going to have to own who I am, take accountability for my actions in that moment. Because if we're all heading for the same goal about moving forward, having a good place to work, all of that that's agreed, the expectation has been set, then I'm going to have some part to play in that. So that setting it up well is really really important.
Speaker 2:The contract, as we call it, and that can take I mean, we did one recently and that took probably about an hour and a half of in that first meeting, if you like, the first coming together of that group to just find out who are you, you know, what do you love, what are you passionate about, what's important for you, what got you doing the job you're doing in the first place? So giving that person space to talk, to be heard. Then it's the following up with the great questions. So bringing in the good old question triangle around the what and the how. So what does that mean for you? And you know how did you do that and why is important to you. You can ask the why question because it will link to their values and beliefs and identity as to who they are as a person. So we need to understand that in order to create a better environment. So it's not crazy, and so therefore, there's a few tools that we can introduce. So the contract is the first one how we're going to work together today, and that gets renewed every single time we get back in the room. So we do a check-in where's everybody at? So there's a formula, so there's a safety, people know what's coming, there's a little bit of certainty that we're always going to check in and explore. How are we arriving today? So that's really important.
Speaker 2:Then we have the setting the scene, the four P's as we call it. You know, placement, permission, process, partnership. So the first two, as we've spoken out before, is the placement, set the scene. What are we here to do today? Not last week, not four weeks from now, but today in this conversation. What are we aiming for? How long have we got? How are we going to be? What's important for us? And therefore asking then, if everybody is okay, which is the permission? And people say yeah, always. Is that all right with you? We're going to talk about this. We've got about half an hour. I'd love your opinion, I'd love to be able to question that and you can question me. That's what I'd like to get to an outcome of moving forward. Are you all right with that? And people go yeah. So they're the first two, so they're external talking communication.
Speaker 2:The second two, which is the process and the relationship piece, or the partnership piece as we call it, are the internal bits that go on what am I going to do? What is the process? How am I going to be? What am I going to do with that? The process is the process. It's a framework I'm working within with some freedom around it, but the partnership piece is all about me taking accountability for my actions.
Speaker 2:I can show up and create chaos, or I can choose to show up and create harmony, and it really is down to you as an individual as to what outcome do you want.
Speaker 2:And it's always fascinating when people show up ready for a fight, ready to battle management or whatever, and you just think there's only one outcome here it's going to cause carnage and we're going to create chaos. So we have to open our minds, to take a step back and look at it with beginner's mind, as we always call it, and ask the right questions, and I think the question triangle comes into its own on that one. Avoid the why, because that's judgy. Keep to the what and the how and the when, because we want to know your ideas, your thoughts, your opinions, and so asking the what, what does that mean for you? How does that impact on you? What support you need? What gets in the way? What are you challenged with at the moment? All of those beautiful what, how questions will enable you to keep that calmness, I suppose, and not get into that, he said. She said space, which is not ideal.
Speaker 1:Oh, Debs, you know, talk about you doing a role that I think you were put on this planet to do.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think, that mediation role.
Speaker 1:It just must. I can see the satisfaction that it gives you sort of playing that role and you know, I think when the money's rolling in and business is easy, then these cracks don't get to show. I think what we're seeing is that conflict resolution and the need for mediation practice is maybe quite a useful skill at the moment to deploy, because if people aren't happy, where do they spend the majority of their time In work? And so maybe going to see these come, some of these things kind of sort of coming out.
Speaker 2:I know when we chatted about it you also said that it was really handy to have the feel felt found tool, oh, as well perfect law and I know this is your tool and it just worked so well to take the I suppose, the sting out of it and to acknowledge that you've heard that individual and you talk it through beautifully, but I just dropped that into the conversation around. You know, I can feel it's very, you know, observational feedback. Obviously, in the moment I can say I'm going to stop everyone here, I can sense that things are moving ahead of where they need to be and there's lots of emotion. So I'm going to share a tool with you that will help you manage that in the right way, from an understanding, empathetic point of view, rather than a he said, she said horrendous workplace dynamics. So tell us about Feel Felt, Found, because this worked beautifully.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's fab to hear. Well, this is a classic sales overcoming objections tool. So I need to thank a lady called Caroline Evans who was a regional manager for Office Angels 20 odd years ago. Her and I were sitting there in the office in Milton Keynes coming up with some training modules and she introduced me to this Feel Felt Found tool and I've dined out on it ever since. So thank you, evans. Got our carousel of content Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I've sort of redressed it and re-varnished it a couple of times, but feel, felt, found is a way to calm troubled waters, as you said, to get out of that sort of combat and into that collaborate sort of mindset, which is where it enables you to just put a bridge across what might be this big divide in terms of how we're going to work together. So I can understand why you feel like that. I know I've felt the same, or others have felt the same. What we found is da, da, da, da da, and it's a way of just calming and having a bit of a calm response back. So the I understand how you feel is the empathy bit. I know others have felt the same or I felt the same as the credibility bit. So it just very, very elegantly says I know my stuff.
Speaker 1:And the third bit is what we have found is. So, rather than telling people what you will find is it feels a bit finger pointy is what we have found is it's an invitation to listen to some testimony. And people are far more likely to be open-minded to some testimonial than being forced to think in a certain way. And if what you've found feels a bit obvious or you're not a really touchy-feely type of person, then you can replace the words with think, thought, discovered, or say, said, realized, or mix and match it up a little bit.
Speaker 1:So you've got 27 different ways that you can have a calm response tool. At the very minimum it gives you, as a communicator, in that moment, some breathing space just to think, and at the best it can help just invite people to continue the conversation rather than shut down and start to get into fight mode. So isn't it brilliant how these language tools Debs. It might have been originated in the world of sales training, but pop it across in some of these other parts of our working life and they can just be really handy. And if you're in a tight, if your career has been where you haven't been brought up in a salesy type of environment, then that's where some of these tools can be quite useful just to that art of conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it all comes down to communication. Having a conversation, I'm person A communicating to person B. It doesn't just stay with person B. My accountability is to make sure that it comes back at me from person B in a way that they've understood it, and if not, then I am accountable for making sure the message lands, not hope it lands. And I think that's what people forget that communication loop. They forget to close it back again and that's it.
Speaker 1:Debs, I remember a slide that I must have seen on one of your slide decks.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously we create brand new ones for every session, of course, so I've probably sent it back to you and I've converted it from Time New Roman to Calibri just to make it look all nice and new, but it was this little kind of image that just describes what you said there. Each of us is responsible for 51% of the conversation, absolutely, because if I'm only 50% and you're only 50%, there's potentially a gap in the middle where that conversation doesn't land. But if I take 51% responsibility and you do the same, we know we're going to have more than 100% covered in terms of the quality of that conversation and the outcome that we're going to. And that really stuck with me. I thought that was a very neat way of I'm not responsible for half of the conversation, because there could be a little gap where that falls in, but 51% means that we know we've got the quality of the conversation covered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's, for me, overcoming those crazy workplaces is that Sometimes it is going back to basics and enabling people to just refresh, reset, practice, it again remind themselves that these tools are there and they probably do them, but they just have out of consciousness, they've just falling into that trap of same old, same old, that autopilot approach, whereas, you know, if we're creating great workplaces, we have to show up and be consciously showing up, not autopilot. We, we have to. You know with intent is what we always say. You know, show up with intent. How do you want to be today? Because that's what you'll get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, debs, I've absolutely loved this conversation. It's been cool. So this has been looking at battling Death Star workplace dynamics. Whether you are a small, large, medium, huge company organisation, whether that's public sector, private sector, third sector, whatever kind of industry it's in, people sometimes act in ways that could be described as reactive rather than responsive, and I guess, if you're seeing around you, there's a lot of stormtrooper behaviours. Our invitation is what opportunity to become super trooper behaviours?
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:So we're going from the Death Star march as the theme tune into an ABBA light-hearted disco tune. That just means you've got the energy and the fun and the looking forward to stuff. So from storm trooper to super trooper, change the soundtrack.
Speaker 2:I love that. Oh, my God, I've got that in my head. Yeah, here we go again. Time for a costume change. Yes, I'm ready. Let's go and make that happen for our next series, right, laura? Ooh, ooh, I like that. Yes, let's be ready. Yes.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So all right, well, we'll kind of tempt you before we then do with next season, and then we'll do our share. The secret, yes, so next season, in celebration of June, pride Month, we are looking at bringing pride values to everyday life, and what does that mean? To have pride in the work that we do. So we've got some really brilliant guests lined up for that, so I can't wait. We have so, debs. In the meantime, with reference to battling death star workplace dynamics, my share of the secret would be, if you've got a mate who is keeping saying to you, oh my God, my place is a nightmare at the moment, get them to listen to this, and hopefully they'll find it a mix of some situations that they can parallel to theirs and some of those brilliant practical tools that you took us through, deb, so you can make a difference.
Speaker 2:You can make a difference. I believe you can, through Deb. So you can make a difference. You can make a difference. I believe you can, because you can if you want to. So I suppose my call to action is to, I suppose, stay in the conscious mind with intent, stay calm and composed actually not necessarily calm because that could be wrong, but composed and considered as to the impact you're having on others, so you can have a solution-focused mind and say what can we do? I hear you. What can we do instead, rather than just play around in the mess and oh, if only they had. And what if it's not that it's around? What can we and what could we look at today? So it's bringing it now which moves us to the future more seamlessly.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Oh, Dave, I've absolutely loved this five-part focus looking at what we can transfer from the world of Star Wars into current life. I know when we came up with this idea a couple of months ago, we were like giddy with excitement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were Little things, right, little things, yeah, just those little joy snacks, and you know why not? I mean, you know not, you're one life and you know, live it well. And sometimes just we can take inspiration from an entirely different set of scene and actually it can just prompt some thinking you probably would have arrived there anyway, but listening to things like this just means you can get a bit of a. You're thinking so yeah, it's been a joy, Debs, and I can't wait for next season.
Speaker 2:It'll be a good one. Looking forward to it, laura, but in the meantime, may the force be with you.
Speaker 1:Oh, Debs, and with you the forces of me, I'm at one with the force.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Do or do not. There is no try, see you later lovely oh love you. Love you, bye, bye, see you later, lovely, oh, love you, love you bye.
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