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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
243. Creating Inclusive Workplaces 2030: Pride, Progress & Practical Steps
In our special bonus episode, we reflect on the powerful conversations shared throughout our Taking Pride series—bringing together the key themes, insights, and practical takeaways from our four incredible guests.
From understanding the evolving language of gender identity to the importance of authentic allyship, cultural sensitivity, and courageous leadership, we revisit the moments that truly moved us—and the lessons we hope to carry forward in our work and lives.
Whether it was Steph’s reminder to lead with curiosity, Olly’s story of self-definition, Sophie’s call to show up for others, or Bhavna’s wisdom around mindset and multicultural identity—each episode added depth to our understanding of what everyday Pride really looks like.
This wrap-up episode is all about celebrating progress, acknowledging the work still to do, and encouraging you to stay open, ask questions, and keep the conversation going—365 days a year. Its not just about the badge or the lanyard - its about showing up as a human being and for many, our workplaces are our second homes and our colleagues our families.
Join us on Instagram @secretsfromacoach to share your biggest ‘aha’ moments and the little compassionate moments you’re inspired to make.
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Debs, laura, you alright, I am alright, carl.
Speaker 2:Laura Debs.
Speaker 1:Carl how we have an unexpected item in the bagging area. What a joy to be joined live in the Secret Summer Coach podcast studio by not only myself and Deb, but live with us, carl. So Carl Green, aka the Performance Coach, and Carl, you've been instrumental in creating a pipeline of incredible, inspirational podcast guests in the pursuit of bringing everyday perspective to the month of pride. And, rather than just sitting there talking about people, actually let's listen from people from all sort of parts of the lgbtq plus community. And, uh, carl, we just thought, um, that actually there was so much amazing insight that came from those four interviews that actually we needed to bring it all together, wrap it around and create a. You know what have been our learns and what have been our insights.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much for having me and thank you for the wonderful little you know instrumental in organising this. I just brought some really fab people to you and have a great conversation, you know.
Speaker 3:Which is what we had really, and I think you know you're also so passionate about this topic because you've done lots of working it and, obviously, your own personal experience of it. So for those of those listeners that may not know much about you, give us just a little bit of why this is so important to you. Why is pride important to you, Carl?
Speaker 2:Do you know what? It's actually quite a really interesting question because I suppose I have found myself throughout life never really living what I would call a difficult experience of it. I've always been able to, very fortunately, I've always been able to walk into a room and have that feeling of acceptance, which is huge. So I suppose my experience of being, you know, a gay man is very different to some of the stories that we've heard, which really made me go oh my God. You know, this is still a big topic, it is still huge.
Speaker 2:I think we won't dive into it, but within our current climate that's currently going on, this is for me. I was like this is something that we need to talk about, and I remember when we all jumped on a call together and I was like we've got to do it, we've got to do it, and I was like it should be you who does it, like it's just, I think, the opportunity to give someone a voice to share their experience, to give them a place to share their journey without judgment and, I think, ultimately, to just listen and learn. And, yeah, give someone the, give someone the space and the time to share their, their existence, of what that means for them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, definitely, I suppose also in your world. You came through in a very different world, to say the corporate world, so I know you've listened into all of our guests as well and obviously you had good conversations with them prior to us having a chat with them. What did you notice were the biggest differences between the world you grew up in, if you like, and now moving into the corporate world and the world that you know our other guests talked about in different, various forms. What was? What did you notice as the biggest differences?
Speaker 2:So obviously you know I mean and some listeners may know, but for those who don't know, my world was performance. That's what I did. I was a dancer, I was a musical theatre artist for way over a decade and I suppose the real difference, I think, from hearing some of these stories is within a world of performance. It's like come as you are, you know, walk into the rehearsal room, wear what you want to wear, be who you want to be, like, obviously still coming and do the job, because the job matters and what you're producing in the show is really important. But who you are within that space was like, you know, one minute you're walking in and you're, like you know, singing to Tina Turner. The next minute we've got, like you know all this different.
Speaker 2:I think there was different cultures, there's different experiences, there's a diversity that all comes together within the world of performance and no one bats an eyelid If someone turns around and goes hey, you know, my name is so-and-so and my pronouns are so-and-so. Everyone just kind of goes okay, cool, and we just, it's just really accepting and everyone's allowed to be whoever they want to be. It's a really incredible space and I always say this that there is so much that we can learn from the world of dance, performance, musical theatre I mean, that's what I mostly talk about, right? But just imagine, imagine a world where everyone could walk into an office and just be accepted for who they are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that was a big thing that came through from all of our guests, wasn't it? The whole thing about creating a safe space and being accepted? And I know, laura, you had a great conversation with Steph as well. So you know, I know you've had time to reflect on it and we've been talking about it since. But you know, when you think about what Steph had to say, how does that relate for you to Carl? Is what Carl's saying's what's important for you?
Speaker 1:as to round around that, well, I think what really sort of stuck and and um. I had that conversation with Steph about three weeks ago and since then I've probably run about 15 different workshops, whether it's small groups or big groups, and it is now consciously on my radar about ensuring that that getting to know you question, um is the right side of curious rather than nosy. So to not, at 10 past nine, create a tummy moment of oh god. I've now got to have a conversation where potential got to reveal some information, because when she said that phrase coming out out you know story which one.
Speaker 2:Coming out.
Speaker 1:never read, I'd never even thought about it in that way. You know, I just thought, oh, it happens once when you're 14. And then you know, from that point on, you know, that's just who you are. I just had no idea. And you know, I'm so grateful to her for sharing that because I I hope it will, um, you know, resonate with others as well. Anyone who has the type of role where you are. You are creating environments where people meet and greet.
Speaker 1:I thought that was really powerful and, um, I had an experience just two days ago.
Speaker 1:So I was leading a session of leadership development for a team of leaders who lead social work teams, basically in a couple of local authorities, and I was chatting with them after and they were talking about some sessions that they run with families that are about to adopt or foster, and when those people arrive to the training centre, they put all of their belongings into a black bin liner and they have to walk up the stairs to this training room where they're going to sit and learn about how to become a foster parent, with all of their items in a black bin liner, which creates a real jolt, which is a bit distressing.
Speaker 1:So you're just watching all your stuff getting tipped into a black bin liner. But that's what happens to a child when they get taken into care. So that moment where social services turn up, maybe with a police companion, all of that child's you know, it's given five minutes to scramble all of their worldly possessions, put it into a black bin liner, sit in the back of, potentially, a police car and get taken into care. And what, of course, that experience does is it just gives a cohort of people who might have never experienced anything like that themselves an absolute dose of compassion and empathy.
Speaker 1:So no wonder that child might act up or act out when they first come to your then house. You know it is understanding what someone's been through so that you can treat them well. You know and deliver that. You know that level of care in that moment and I was just in my mind as the people were telling me how they did that, you know kind of jaw open, oh my God, and I was immediately then thinking of Steph and actually all of our guests that we've had, which is when you hear other people's stories. It sure does give you a bit of a refresh and a reset and take you from judgy why aren't they grateful that they've got this opportunity yeah into actually, well, you don't know what's happened for decades beforehand that has actually led to that's. You know some a moment happening.
Speaker 3:So yeah, that that was that just really stuck with me. Yeah, that's crazy, wow. And I suppose those moments where you're putting, you're putting that person's shoes or their for a moment, that's when it does hit home and, you know, lands on with you. And I know, carl, when we spoke to Sophie as well, you know she was talking about having to, you know, work with the vulnerable young people as well and the homeless and everything else. So when you reflected back on Sophie's story, you know what was your thoughts around that and the impact that obviously we can all have on that community, which is, you know, we never know what people are going through.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, obviously I've. I've known so for for many, many years and she is the most incredible person I think I've probably ever met. Um, I think she, the way that she just looks through any sort of like adversity, it's never, you know, everything is, for, everything is falling apart around me. You know, what I love about her is that she is very happy and very comfortable to challenge what we see happening or what we somehow have deemed to be normal, and she is very happy to challenge that and raise the awareness for others who necessarily don't have that comfortability to go. That's actually maybe not OK, or perhaps let's shine a light on this over here, because that's not sitting well, you know, within that community.
Speaker 2:I know that she on her social media, she is obviously a kind of she's a big activist, I would say. She likes to share her thoughts, she likes to share her view, she likes to raise awareness for what is going on in today's current climate and I think, especially with what the work that she does now, you know I would probably say her purpose is to protect is probably that's how, that's what I would say. Like, listening back, I thought, yeah, her overall purpose in in this world and potentially the next one is to protect.
Speaker 3:To protect those who aren't necessarily always given the same option as others yeah, that's true and that that came across, I mean, when Laura and I listened back. Well, obviously Laura listened and then I re-listen, wasn't it, laura, about her experience when she went for her surgery. It was like we just went what? And her point around. You know, medical professionals often lack that understanding of non-binary identities, leading to that invalidating experiences. We just went how, why, what? No, thought right. And how often do you see law where people aren't necessarily thinking that far, they're just seeing what they see and just making a judgment? How often do you see that?
Speaker 1:Well, I think every human has felt those examples of oh you know I'm not accepted here. You know whether it's my recent running that I've had with the health insurance of if you're not an exact certain weight, you're written off as being someone. You know that is uninsurable. And I was fuming about that. Yeah, you were. Because on the one hand, society is saying, oh, you know, love yourself and you know size doesn't matter. And then yeah, well, if you're one pound over what you should be, that's it.
Speaker 1:You know you're there in the kind of do not be insured, yeah whoever you are to be human is to have those experiences every now and then of oh, actually I'm not being accepted by the tribe here.
Speaker 1:I think what I took from sophie's scenario is that might be far deeper and far more regular for certain members of our society than others.
Speaker 1:And there are some industries that we work with where you are in a service-giving situation and just to be able to remind people that those frontline services whether it's custom service or whether it's a health interaction the power you have to destroy someone's sense of confidence in that moment and it was a real eye opener.
Speaker 1:And every now and then you might see in a workshop scenario a little unintentional slip, so someone might say something like well, those people should, or you know I don't understand why and you can see someone as the day warms up and they get more confident, sort of expressing some of these views. And when you're at the front and you're facilitating, you can see the impact it can have on people. And often that's where you know any one of our team would go. Well, let's just pause there and let's explore that. Yeah, I don't think it comes from the intention to put it hard, but it just comes from maybe sometimes being a bit careless or a bit mindless yeah, true, about how well you might be caught up in that at the moment and you want to vent, but actually that's like little knives that potentially, are just going to impact someone else that's in the room for whom, actually, that's a really sensitive topic.
Speaker 3:That's such a good point, isn't it, carl? I know I was going to ask you around here. How does that impact when you've had your lived experience around, because you were in retail as well and, in effect, meeting and greeting people on, you know, in the performance world, so you're always on, yeah, the front line. So what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:well, I'm, I'm just gonna because it's in my brain and you know, I mean, you both know what I'm like, if I, if I, if thought you're never going to get back. So I'm going to loop it over because it sparked something in Ollie's conversation for me, because actually we are when we're delivering, we're not teachers, but it's the same setup, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:We're at the front, we've potentially got, you know, a room full of delegates which you could deem as our classroom, let's say, and I think there's that element of the culture we create within that room to go, you know, as, as professionals, as coaches, as trainers, our vow to the people in our room is to hold them in a place where they feel psychologically safe. Right, so we're not gonna all of a sudden hit them with a curveball out of nowhere. We're going, I'm here to keep you safe while we're in this room. Made me think about Ollie's conversation around.
Speaker 2:The element of culture matters um more than the policy yes, I love that yeah well, I suppose what we're saying is you don't, you don't have that element of inclusion by ticking the boxes. You know that's that tick, that's that tick Like we just don't have. That. I think it's felt in those micro moments Law, like you were saying of going. I'm just going to check in with you on something that I've just heard. You know feedback in the moment, with big advocates for that one.
Speaker 2:What needs to happen, I think, for us as, as I think, just as human beings, you know law, you you love this change, evolution, constantly learning I think we've got to raise an awareness to go. Do you know what? It doesn't matter if it's not how I see the world, it's not my map, but actually, if I can just show someone a bit of respect and maybe match their pronouns, why not? You know, if there's, you know, a welcomed kind of story or someone is sharing their experiences. I think it's having that curious mind, right, which I know you talk about a lot, debs to go. How can I remain really curious? And I don't know, I don't know about you.
Speaker 2:I'm going to pose a question back to you guys. You've been learning along this journey as well, right, and I suppose I'm wondering in my brain when we're having those difficult conversations, or if we're having, or if we make the mistake, or if we slip up or if we go. Oh my God, I maybe didn't catch their pronouns or I've misgendered that person, have we? I suppose is there an element of we've confused curiosity with confrontation? Now, the only reason why I ask that question is because I know that people who I've spoken to have gone. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm frightened that if I say the wrong thing, it's going to come back on me. But then someone is also saying well, if someone says something wrong to me, I've then got to protect myself and fight back. So I'm like have we mixed? Have we mixed the element of curiosity, yeah, with the element of confrontation, because we're always on, yeah, we're always on guard.
Speaker 3:Really open question, yeah I think steph touched on that, didn't she like that? I think that links into her coming out. Yeah, well, which one? You know, because she's all you know. I think that links with what steph was talking about, wasn't it around that? And um, yeah, I think that's an interesting, because people don't know what to say or how to say it and, as Law said, you know, well, they should. You know, that's what you hear in the classroom, I suppose.
Speaker 3:For me, it's just being very present and very mindful of who have you got with you around you. You know, being respectful, I think, is the word that if someone has said that and oh, I haven't heard their pronouns then to ask, but don't say, oh, what did you say? It's like I missed that. Can you help me? You know, can you repeat that? So I get? I get that right. Um, so I think it's about ownership. I'm going to take accountability for how I'm going to be in that moment with you, regardless of who you are, and that's something you know, I grew up with you regardless of who you are, and that's something I grew up with. It doesn't matter who you are, we're all humans at the end of the day. But I think, being more aware, and I think all of our guests talked about having that awareness, even Bhavna's story, the lack of awareness and cultural differences that were put on us and our upbringing and everything else.
Speaker 3:But I think there's a yeah. If we go, oh, I'm going to protect myself, I'm not going to ask the question, then we're missing a trick. I think you're right If we come at it from a genuine place of curiosity and wanting to support, help, understanding. Laura always says you know, every day is a school day. Right, we don't know everything, but it's creating that approachability, that safe space to and the tone that you use, I think is super important here. How you communicate is super important for me anyway, because it's not what you say, it's how you say it that can trigger 101 things in people. And it's listening. I think that's what it is. It's listening to what people are asking, what people are sharing, what people are telling you. Reading them, go okay. Well, I'm not going to push you on that. You know, whenever you're ready, it's always putting them first, I think for me so, because then it's not about me. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:however yes, go on.
Speaker 1:I think that's a very interesting point you've raised, carl. So have we confused or got mixed up curiosity with fear of confrontation? And I think what has added a bit of heat to all of this is we are surrounded by news and media talking about people getting cancelled, statues getting torn down, people being vilified for saying the wrong thing, and I think what that then creates is, if that's the external noise of, oh my God, if I get something wrong I'm going to get sacked, because look what happened to that person on X, then I just think then the fear of confrontation is not because I don't want to do those things, but I think pressure number one is the fear of getting it wrong seems to outweigh the benefit of getting it right, so I'm just going to keep quiet.
Speaker 1:yeah, that's true and the second thing is there's I think you're spot on about listening and finding out, but all of that takes a little bit longer than a one minute quick getting to know you it does. So there's the human desire of being pragmatic and efficient and getting stuff done, but then there is the sort of the spiritual requirement to be able to sort of connect and um, and I think that's where the challenge is is I would imagine most people in there if they, if they're given time to reflect at the end of their lives, would go. I hope I've been a good person, you know. You know most people probably would want to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've got the challenge of oh my god, I'm really fearful about getting it wrong, because I'm seeing what happened to other people out there.
Speaker 1:There aren't really stories of where it gets shared, where it's getting done right, and I think that's it. That's why we wanted to bring it to life with this is let's forget about all this sensationalism, as you said, deb's, you know in the first setup, and actually let's just educate ourselves and just find out, so then we can equip real life people in real life situations, yeah, to be able to not be scared of getting it wrong, but equipped and empowered with some, just some bits of language, a bit of understanding and and uh, you know, for example, in my day-to-day, if I hear someone's name as we're going around the room, who are you? What's your name? If in that moment I think I didn't quite catch that, I will now say I just want to check, I'm going to get your name. Can you just spell it for me, or can you just say that again, and you can feel the sense of relief in everyone else in the room as well, yeah, exactly, but isn't?
Speaker 3:that law yeah we're not pretending, but how much of that is about you as an individual and I mean Cole, maybe you'll answer this For me it's about I'm going to with intent, I'm going to show up like this, so I have a choice in how I show up and rather than just be my same old autopilot, I think how much of that is down to our own self-awareness and our own management of self. So, linking back into the whole lovely world of emotional intelligence which, again, all of our guests actually had in the mix, and actually when I was listening to all of them and talking to them, for me that was like there was a bit of me that went that's just common sense and I thought, no, that's having astute relationship management and being emotionally intelligent. And that was the bit that each one of our guests was actually talking about. Is you know how we show up, how we manage our emotions, how we impact on others? Have we got our social radar on? We always have that. You know where we talk about EI. We say what's your social radar? Where's the blip? What are you noticing?
Speaker 3:But that's for me, that's about how I'm intentionally showing up in a room or with somebody. That's my choice and therefore, to be aware of that and be in the presence so you're really in tune with that individual in that moment, enables you to intuitively read the signs, listen out for the words, read for what's not going on, be observant. But that takes energy, right, I don't know. That's mine it's. I think it starts with self initially. Yeah, carl, what's your thoughts?
Speaker 2:I for me, I think it's the confidence to say I'm so sorry, I've just I've, I've totally got that wrong, or I'm so sorry I didn't catch that, or I think it's having that confidence to go. I don't know everything and it's okay for me not to know everything, but what I am going to do is show up with empathy, acceptance, intelligence, and I think, laure, what you were saying in terms of I'm so sorry, I didn't catch your name, could you spell it out for me and the impact that that then has on other people, you know, it's almost like you know all it takes is one person to stand up for the rest of the room to then stand up like a standing ovation. We always say that you know, all it takes is one, and sometimes all it takes is that one person to go. God, you know what. Can we just have that conversation again?
Speaker 2:Because I feel like I've missed some key points here. That's quite a scary thing to do, because what you're actually kind of saying in that moment is maybe I've got something wrong, I don't know the answers and it's almost a oh my God. I'm about to go back a little bit here, but we spoke about in the Star Wars episode your Yoda. You know that Yoda presence and it's taking off the mask sometimes and just saying you know what we do live in the world of corporate land and it's a wonderful world to live in and it's really great, but let's not forget that we are human within that space.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're definitely not robots, isn't it?
Speaker 2:And if we want to go quite literally, Laura, we'll get into your world here. But if we want to protect the human edge right from the robots robots this is my take on it the two biggest things I think we need to have in order to protect the human being world within the corporate space is care and compassion for the person you are talking or the person you are sat next to. To go you know what. I don't walk in your shoes, but I'm willing to walk alongside you regardless, and I think that's important because I think ollie shoes, but I'm willing to walk alongside you regardless, and I think that's important because I think Ollie mentioned that and I'm going to use one of his quotes.
Speaker 3:Actually, he said in his interview to us it's important to do your own research before asking marginalized communities questions. And he said but and the pride events remind us that the fight for equality is ongoing but learning about others is essential for personal growth, and that and I just went, yeah, that sort of sums it up, doesn't it really About being a decent, like you said, a decent human? We, you know, get to the end of our days and go. I was a nice person. You know you're never going to know, and until somebody might read that out as your eulogy, at the end she was a nice person, um, but what if you could hear that through your whole life, you know you cared for me. You know you looked after me. You, you were having these good news stories about where it has worked, rather where it hasn't worked.
Speaker 1:I think it's that changing and reframing it so that it's not sensationalism and it's got to be talked about absolutely because no one's going to stand at my funeral saying, oh, what I always really loved about Laura is her BMI was 25. Exactly, laura. I know health and fitness is important, but that's not the only reason why I'm here is to maintain the weight that people are prepared to ensure.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm being my bonnet about this, isn't it? And I think, linking back to very practical takeaways like the plan for that meeting might have been 10-minute quick check-in, but if actually at minute eight, it becomes apparent that if we're going to do a proper check-in as a team meeting, it needs a little bit more than that. The purpose for that meeting was not to bang through a check-in that has actually upset eight people with some icebreaker. That makes people feel hugely exposed. The purpose of the meeting isn't to get through that icebreaker on time. The purpose of that meeting is to connect and create a space where people want to work together and are aligned and feeling tethered to be able to handle whatever challenge the business or the operation is facing at the moment.
Speaker 1:So I think just back to the point. You were making debs about. What have we learned along the way? What I've learned along the way is just getting through the plan and rattling through content and going through a meeting or a team together session. That's not the reason why we're here. The reason why we're here is to create a sense of trust and respect and taking that time out and it might take 12 minutes yeah, and that's okay yeah you've got the info, but that's all right.
Speaker 1:That's not a failed mission, you know. A failed mission is well, we ended the meeting on time, but everyone's upset, but they're too scared to say anything about it.
Speaker 3:That's not an achieved mission that definitely isn't an achieved mission. So I suppose, as we sort of wrap up on what we took from this, it'd be good to know, laure, I suppose your share the secret and your key takeaway that you'd want us to take forward, so a bit like a call to action, as well as share the secret. Really, if we combine them together, what would yours be?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay Well, what would yours be? Yeah, okay Well. Baffner's message that she landed with us on last week's episode the final of our sort of four guests about how do it scared and lay down the fear, and where she was talking about that, about individuals courageously having the audacity to thrive. I also think that's a call to action to all of us about you know, as, carl, I love that way you said about have we missed? Have we taken curiosity as actually conflict?
Speaker 1:And rather than looking at how you know this is maybe a real hot and heavy and difficult conversation, my share of the secret would be if there might be someone in your professional and personal life for whom this is a real burning topic at the moment.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's something that's happened in their workplace and they know they need to ensure that that eDNI conversation is still going on. Carl, as you mentioned, the external world's potentially not making it an easy space at the moment, so it's become very loaded and lots of fear around it. So if you know someone with whom this is an important conversation, get them to listen to this and this is all in the pursuit of just educating and hearing and on your daily commute, just a chance to this and this is all in the pursuit of just educating and hearing and, you know, on your daily commute, just a chance to refresh and sort of reset some thoughts around this. And then my call to action would be let's channel Bhavna and lay down the fear, do it scared and you know, the next time you have a moment of thinking. I don't really understand that. How might you, in a way that feels true to you, mindfully step into that kind of kind curiosity space in the pursuit of creating better working relationships?
Speaker 3:love that. That's so cool. I love it, carl. What about you, oh?
Speaker 2:I mean that? I mean, there's so many that I just realized I did a really big hair whip.
Speaker 1:then You're doing your Tina Channel. Tina, here I am.
Speaker 2:If it's okay with both of you, I think I'd just really love to go through the kind of some of the really big things I mean as a member of the um LGBTQIA plus community myself, I think they this has been. I'm firstly, what I want to say is thank you for both of you for entering into this space, which feels sometimes really alien to others. But also I just want to say thank you very much for opening that door and having the conversations that sometimes feel a bit oh, I don't know if I'm doing this right, but you are literally showing people that it's great to have these conversations because you're going to learn something new and not to be fearful of them. So that was my first thank you, both of you, for having those incredible conversations. So I'm just going to share my reflections on each, if that's okay, because I think there's been real beautiful nuggets of wisdom throughout, kind of all of them, and then I'll give a lovely. You know I'll tie it all up in a gorgeous red bow from my perspective. So I think when we were talking to Steph, there was a real.
Speaker 2:My biggest thing here was authenticity isn't just about being visible. We can't say it, you know. We can't just say, yeah, yeah, be who you want to be, cool, yeah. All of that To allow someone to be truly authentic is a feeling of them being safe within that space. If they feel safe to be the authentic version of them, if they feel safe to be the authentic version of them, just incredible, um, it's having that ability to go. Let's show. How do we want to shape the culture of tomorrow? How do we want to shape what the future looks like for those people within any space, right Within any form of space? How do we want them to feel safe? So that was my biggest thought from Steph, from Ollie. It was, um, this there's something within this that really stuck with me that visibility without security can be dangerous. It can be if we are not holding people within a safe space where they feel okay to be them. It's okay to have the conversations that are curious, not confrontational. It's okay to not always get it right. It's okay to be doing that, but it has to be safe, right? It can't be if it's in a dangerous space. Then what are we fueling? We're fueling discomfort. We're not fueling a psychologically safe space where actually, potentially, what we're saying is is is don't, don't step outside the box, because you never know what might be on the other side. You know it's that whole thing, right, let's say the box is the cave. You know we all have that drive somewhere within us to go. I've got to be safe at all times.
Speaker 2:How are we creating that space where people can be visible? Um, so that was my big thing with with Ollie there's when listening to, so it was, um, all about representation. It was representation, support. How are we actually, how are we, how are we funding those spaces where people have that space to go? I feel seen, I feel heard, we're valued. What are companies doing to create that space for you know their culture, their policies, their processes. How are we making sure that people are represented and supported from top to bottom throughout all of it, right? Um, so that was the big, big kind of thing for me, that having that space for representation and support isn't. You know, it's not nice to have, it's a necessary, it's a necessary to have. Um, and I suppose the big thing that came out for me with Bhavna and that was just an incredible conversation for one I'm Bavna's honesty and the fact that she is so open to sharing her lived experience is incredible. That's one that is going to really stay within my mind.
Speaker 2:But I think her her call for empathy within leadership is a really big thing. Where, you know, I think we're very driven to be task focused and the to-do list I've got to do this tick, I've got to do that tick, I've got to do this and I think we sometimes forget, actually, how am I going to be while I do that task? Can I do that task with an open mind? Can I do that task and sit with the? Maybe Can I do that task and be, you know, be joyous? Can I be empathetic, can I be caring, can I be understanding whilst I do the thing I'm doing? So I think that element of empathy within leadership was just really big.
Speaker 2:So my call to action, or my close, is if you're listening to this and if you've listened in to our podcast and there is an element of God, you know I feel like I might be a bit too much. You know, if I'm really celebrating myself and if I'm walking into the office and it might be too much, or, on the other side of that, you feel like you're not enough to show up and be who you want to be within that space you are neither. You are neither too much or you are neither not enough. I think what I've really learned is through listening to this.
Speaker 2:I think we're all becoming better versions of ourselves, kind of each and every day, and that in itself is more than enough. The fact that we're open to learn, the fact that we're curious to understand, the fact that we're caring for others and we're compassionate in the way that we do it. I think that can bleed into creating great workplaces, creating friendships and kind of, I suppose, happy future focused here, and we're kind of where everyone's version of themselves is just met with acceptance. I mean, you know, because I find I'm gonna say I mean, I'm not just proud to be gay. That's just one part of me, you know. But what ultimately I'm proud to be is me and yes, that makes up part of me. And if we can allow people to go show up as you be proud to be you, it's one of the greatest gifts we could ever give anyone nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah it, surely it really is. I really love that and I echo both your comments, law, as well as carl's as well, and it's a great wrap-up, thank you. And thank you for acknowledging Laura and I stepping into this space as well, because I know we had conversations, say we even said what if we say the wrong thing? And it was like let's just do it, let's have the conversation. That's the whole point, isn't it? In a way that holds that person respectfully and safely, which you know. So, thank you, appreciate you saying that to us both.
Speaker 3:So because we loved it actually, but I think for me it's around just remembering.
Speaker 3:So it's a bit of a call to action and a share the secret and a bit of awareness all wrapped up in one and I've just written here just be mindful that small actions can have significant impacts on others' lives, and that would be have the awareness to know that you know how you are being will have an impact regardless of who you are, where you're from, and I think you know how you are being will have an impact regardless of who you are, where you're from, and I think you know. Keeping on talking about this, you know, pride Month reminds us right that you know there is a fight for equality is still ongoing and it will be ongoing, and we've looked at it through history, talking to various people around this. So I think that bit for me is that you know authenticity is I think Sophie said this authenticity and advocacy fosters a sense of kinship and connection and comes back to how we are being as humans. So, yeah, that would be my parting gift, if you like, on this one.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to really highlight what you've said there, because it is really important. Pride is only one of the things that is um celebrated during the month of june. Um, it is not just a celebration that has to stop when june stops. You know it's life, you know this is people's lives that we're talking about here and I think just what what you've shared there, this is ongoing pride every day. You know pride is is is waking up in the morning, having a cup of coffee and looking in the mirror and going God, I'm fab, you know.
Speaker 3:I think, and as Sophie said, doesn't it? It goes beyond the lanyard, which that just sits with me? Yeah, it goes beyond the lanyard. So you know, Laura, wrap us up. You know it's been such an amazing series hasn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really has. You know series, hasn't it? Yeah, it really has. And huge thanks to you, carl, for being able to manifest all these amazing different sort of voices and you know, with sort of friends, old and and new, and just being able to sort of learn and, in the spirit of the secret summer coach podcast, thriving and maximizing our potential in an ever-evolving world of work. And maybe back in the 80s and 90s it was all about the job that you do and the task that you do. And now, actually part of being successful in the world of work is who you work with and who you are when you arrive at work. Because, as more as the doing gets automated and artificial intelligence, it's, debs, as you said, the emotional intelligence that is actually going to enable us to take benefit of all these developments.
Speaker 1:And we thought it would be really cool if we sort of did a bit of a spillover from june because, as you're saying, carl, it's not just in june that we sort of talk about this stuff, it's, it's ongoing, it's part of our effective, you know working relationships and, um, and actually we thought we'd make our focus in our next four-part mini -series all around friendships at work Because, according to the Gallup engagement survey data and Gallup is like one of the world's go-to in terms of employee engagement data the feeling that you've got a friend at work has an absolutely statistical impact on your likelihood to want to stay, feel psychologically committed to your role and delivering your best work. So we thought, well, actually let to your role and delivering your best work. So we thought, well, actually let's do a focus on friendships at work. And, of course, part of being friends with people at work is also, you know, kind of maybe meeting and working alongside people with whom are different from your personal network outside work. So I just think it leads beautifully into a couple of those guests that you found for us, carl, and actually being able to link that into our next four-part focus, looking at friendships at work. So we're super excited about that, deb, aren't we?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, we can't wait for the next series as well. So it's just been a blast. I've loved it. But you know, thank you, Carl, for joining me and Laura on this one and sharing your side and your views on it. So thank you and Laura, I look forward to having a chat about friendship.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, because we could start off with our friendship story.
Speaker 3:Yes, we could, absolutely we could have some good cheesy music about friends and things like that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. I think our first one is just going to be you and me setting the scene. Why friendships? Are important important, and then we can hear from some other perspectives as well. So have an amazing week, both of you you too lovely thank you so much. It's been an honour. Thank you, thank you take care.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye, bye we hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secretsfromacoachcom, or follow us on Insta or Facebook. If you're a Spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacoachcom, and sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work.