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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
246: Looking After the People Who Look After the People
In the third episode of our Friendships at Work series, we’re joined by the brilliant Abigail Wilmore — founder of People Flow and former HR leader in the luxury fashion world (think Stella mccartney and Tom Ford). We explore how friendship, connection, and human-first design are reshaping the future of work — not just for employees, but for the HR professionals supporting them.
Abi shares her journey from corporate burnout to creating the People Flow Community — a beautiful, nourishing space for HR professionals to reflect, recharge, and speak openly without masks. It’s a timely reminder that friendships at work don’t always look like pub trips and whatsapp chats; sometimes, they’re built on safety, shared purpose, and the quiet relief of not having to perform.
We unpack how meaningful connection fuels culture, wellbeing, and resilience — especially in high-pressure roles. Its about putting people before policy; how friendship, flow & self-care is redefining HR.
Abi also offers practical ways for leaders and HR teams to reimagine the future of people strategy, from monthly self-audits to embedding belonging into everyday business.
Whether you're in HR, leading a team, or reflecting on your own friendships at work — this episode will inspire you to prioritise connection and rethink what people-first leadership really means.
As Abi says: "You can’t pour from an empty cup — especially when you're the one holding space for everyone else. HR needs friendship too."
You can connect with Abigail Wilmore via her LinkedIn profile
Find out more about People Flow here
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training Debs.
Speaker 2:Hello how are you?
Speaker 1:doing? I'm doing well. I've had a week of really interesting conversations that seem to evolve. It'd be interesting to see your thoughts on this revolve around this theme of bringing people back into the physical office and that. What does hybrid mean? Remote versus in-person? So here we are, sort of five years on since the pandemic was sort of right in the throes of it, which obviously prompted a whole load of emergency working from home, remote working, and five years on it still seems to be rumbling on. So are you picking up the same?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly the same, laura. I thought it was sort of not a big thing. Maybe that's because we've kept working, but it is a big thing. I'm picking up conversations this week about people refusing to come back into the office to meet people and work as a team, and that people are having to compromise and the manager might be meeting somebody halfway, so that there's a bit of this well, if you're not going to come into us, then I'll come to you, type thing and having loads of pushback about it still, and I just think, wow, that's your job, coming to work. But that might just be me.
Speaker 1:Well, it's just such a hot topic it is a hot topic again, where the sort of the challenge is, if you've been recruited and it was sold to you as a hybrid role, kind of coming when you want, or maybe maximum two days, so your life is built around that, and then suddenly there's a new diktat saying, actually we want everyone in for a third day because we need more collaboration, and yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:And the irony of it is, of course you want people to come together to then be able to cohes and collaborate.
Speaker 1:But at the moment if everyone's so resentful and trying to kind of, you know, be last minute sick or book a last minute dentist appointment on the day they're supposed to be sort of coming on on that third day, then actually it's going to have the opposite effect. And what I think is just useful to keep from a sort of a framing point of view is this isn't just about getting people into a physical office to get more work out of them. Actually, from a welfare point of view, how do you know if your people are OK, if your colleagues are OK, if actually you never see them, you know, maybe their cameras are off, and what does that mean then to actually look out and care for each other, and if you're not caring for your team, then that's one of the reasons why we work in teams, is you're sort of stronger and safer together, and I'm so looking forward to listening to our guests that you've connected with us, Debs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my God, amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm just really looking forward to this. What about those people that are there to help the people? How do we keep an eye on them, and what does that mean in terms of creating a culture where those friendly, good working relationships are good for us on many different levels?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. It was such a pleasure to speak to Abbey Gale, and shall we listen in to what she had to say?
Speaker 3:so, abby, tell us a bit about your personal story and what inspired you to start people flow. So I've been in human resources for about 20 or so years, um, and I've mainly spent that part of my career in luxury fashion. I've had the most amazing time, I have to say, and when I look back on my career there's so many proud moments. But I always knew that somewhere along the way, I felt, because when I joined HR it was really personnel and a lot of kind of transactional you know, paperwork pushing I always felt like there must be something more to human resources. And as my career kind of grew, and certainly when I spent a lot of time at Stella McCartney being a sustainable kind of vegetarian brand with a real purpose, that's where I started to be able to think about if we design this in a really human centric way, what would that look like? And I knew I don't know exactly when it started to occur to me, but that I wanted to bring this type of lens to more businesses, and so I was at Stella for a really long time. I was there for 16 years.
Speaker 3:Then I moved to Barbara Sturm, a skincare brand actually one of her friends, another founder-led business, but I had started PeopleFlow as a sort of side hustle partway through the pandemic, towards the end of the pandemic, just testing the water to see if I liked consulting. And I really did. And so then I took another in-house role at Tom Ford Fashion. But I kind of already knew that people flow was what was lighting me up. So the moment arrived when I thought I need to step into this fully, because I'm only doing it a very small part of my energy and attention. And so now people flow, which has actually been going about four and a half years but I kind of say officially it's been since September last year, 2024, that I've devoted all my attention to it and all my love.
Speaker 3:And so there's the community side, which is, of course, very much resonant with what we're talking about and the months that you're having in terms of friendships and relationships at work. And then the consultancy side, which is a joy really as well like to. I mean, I'm not saying that I love every element of it. The business development part is quite tough, but I really enjoy working for several different brands and, you know, applying this lens of really a human-centered, inclusive approach to human resources, which I is actually hr. Um, she needs to completely transform um away from its its name, hr um. And then the community side of what we do, which I know we're going to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we will get on to that and it's really interesting listen to you talk. Actually, my background is, as you know, is hr as well and having seen it transform over the years and and as you said, how do we enable it to be this truly human centric? You know people at the heart of the business, because I know the old saying was it would be HR, was called human remains or you know, and policing, and you just the policy people, and I mean you must have had so many stories that came your way where people were going who's HR? What do you do for me? You push payroll. You know you do the paperwork. So when you think back to why a people flow is so important to you, I can hear it in your voice. But that shift from you know, getting rid of the title of human resources, because it sounds really weird into something different, what is there a moment in time that you went? Oh, my God, I've got to get out, I'm sure, there were many of those moments.
Speaker 3:Yes, I had many, but usually that's because of different politics that's happening or you know, different kind of situations. I think the real moment for me that was crystallizing in terms of moving out of being seen as operational and transactional and you know, paper work, um as a function was when we were able to bring the right technology in place. That kind of um elevated what we were doing and brought life in data and analytics and, you know, evidence the things that before that time we were probably probably sounded wishy-washy to, you know, to the exec team or to the people that we were talking about. But yeah, still today, I think a you know, people need to be educated on what human resources actually does and so many as and I'm finding it even more fascinating as I, as I kind of meet lots of different people from a, you know, a consultancy perspective people still do think that HR is about hiring and firing or, yeah, payroll and administration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy, is it? But when you think about, I suppose, the needs of the people as to why you then set up PeopleFlow because it is historically overlooked, isn't it? As you were saying? People still don't get it. So if you were to say this is what we do, this is what I do at PeopleFlow, this is what's important to me from a consultancy perspective, how would you describe it?
Speaker 3:So the consultancy? From a consultancy perspective, it is about going in and looking at all the elements within that organization that are either working or not working from the perspective of helping people to thrive towards the mission of that of that business and, and you know, put all their focus on what the purpose of that company is about, or and what's kind of challenging that and what's what are the knots within, within the system. That needs unraveling from a people perspective, and that could be about structure. It could be about decision and that could be about structure. It could be about decision making. It could be about, you know, role definition.
Speaker 3:There's so many parts of it and you do need to start with the operational and transactional, because that is ultimately. You know, if you can't, if you don't get that bit right, that none of the other layers of what we do work, however, you can still have. You know, you still need to look at every single aspect and do people feel a sense of belonging? Do they have purpose in their individual role? Do they understand what their contribution is to the bigger picture? And you know, therefore, have some meaning in what they're doing. So it's looking at all of those elements and then prescribing or diagnosing what the issues are and then prescribing what the solutions could be for them, and that might be some very quick fixes or it might be something that's going to, you know, be an evolution over time, and usually, of course, with culture building or culture transformation work that happens over a long period of time and takes many elements.
Speaker 3:I do also really love the idea of being able to bring to light and again data analytic evidence in some way from real people, some of those issues and not just, you know, I guess, not just be looking and revealing in words, but actually having that evidence.
Speaker 2:So I think that's something else that we do really well and I think people like that, because if the numbers don't lie right and I know whilst we work with people, you know and people go you're just a number in a company. Actually, you know you are more than that. But when you're wanting to make a shift or a change in a culture, you have to look at the evidence, and numbers is the one that people understand right around what goes on. So how have you ensured that you've looked after you as the people person looking after the people? What have you done to look after you over the years?
Speaker 3:That's definitely been a process, very long process of learning and unlearning. I would say things about myself and again came to a big realization moment when I left Stella McCartney. I realized and I think for a lot of HR people, during the pandemic we were thrust into the spotlight. The pandemic, we were thrust into the spotlight. We were always on 24 seven. It felt like for a very extended period of time and taking people through you know uncertainty when we were not clear ourselves either, like we were part of that. So coming out of that, I was really, really burnt out.
Speaker 3:Um, and even though I've done a lot of healing work and a lot of self-discovery, self-development for many, many years maybe 15 years even I was completely burnt out and I didn't realize, actually I didn't realize the signs in myself because I was too busy and my body started to tell me you're not OK, you need to slow down.
Speaker 3:My body started to tell me you're not okay, you need to slow down. I had a skipped heart beat and palpitations and all kinds of other things that my body was telling me. So I did take a month off between roles, but it definitely was not long enough. But I started then to really look at this and implement new things in my life and try and prioritize my health and even just the signs, you know, being more aware of what those signs might be for me that I'm gone too far or I'm pushing myself too much. So that was a real clarifying part of my development in this area, part of my development in this area. But it also really drove me to want to understand are we okay as a profession actually? And that's really when I started hosting breakfast events with lots of different people in the HR profession, just asking them how they're looking after themselves, and realizing that actually we're not looking after ourselves in HR and probably in many other professions as well.
Speaker 3:I can think of nursing like a lot of service professions, yeah, yeah, um, where you're caring for others and thinking about others all the time, um, but anyway, my focus being on human resources and what I know the most about.
Speaker 3:That's what really spurred me into wanting to start PF Community, which is a community aspect, and it is honestly where my heart is, because the answers that I was getting from people were like I'm not OK, actually, and no one's even asked me if I'm OK and I'm not looking after myself.
Speaker 3:I hadn't even thought about it and, you know, quite a lot of emotion and tears were coming through, and so I realized I really want to do something about this and give something back to the profession, and just realizing that I had been searching for this kind of unity or sense of community that I didn't even know I had been searching for. So that's really where we started hosting more events, and then now we've got the membership to our community and it has become like HR for HR. It really has, because it is a place where you just don't need to wear your Instagram shiny mask. You don't need to say about all the amazing initiatives that you have, you know, implemented in your business, which we do want to hear about as well but it's more about how do we do the job that we need to do and still be okay ourselves and, in fact, how do we be okay in ourselves first we can do a better job um of care, of caring for others and, and you know, and I just think what you've done is incredible.
Speaker 2:I know we talked about it before because there is a need for that, and I know that you know the, the HR, certainly the HR communities I was part of when I was working as a team. They were very close knit because sometimes you had to have that ally or that safe space in which to go. Oh my God, I can't believe they've just done that, and without saying it, outside of those walls, if you like, and people understanding you, but to take it to the level that you have, what have you noticed has made the biggest difference to those people that are now members of your PF community? What have you noticed?
Speaker 3:I noticed the sense of relief that it's okay to talk about the fact that I've just had to let go of 100 people and that's been so difficult, the fact that I've just had to let go of a hundred people and that's been so difficult, you know.
Speaker 3:I then have to go home to my family at night and you know, shake it all off and just be okay. Like how do I do that? But then also this sense of belonging which, again, often HR is not trusted by the employees because they think you know we're paid by the company and then not empowered by the top, you know, team or the organization. You're kind of in this weird space sometimes where you can feel actually completely cognitively dissonant in some cases, like you might not agree at all with what the company's mission is, but you're one that has to deliver it and you know, carry, carry it through with people, which is part of the job. But that is quite a separated place and this community is a sense that I can be. I kind of hate that term bring your whole self, because I know it's not actually true, but it is.
Speaker 3:It does feel like a place where you could just be your authentic yes, ourself and and people are going to get you. Yeah, um, that's quite rare, I think. In it's quite isolating and you feel quite alone. Even if you've got an amazing team and even if you're in a big team, yeah, you know that you still there's still some spaces that you don't feel quite safe. Yeah, to express the things that you are vulnerable about, and so that has become this place.
Speaker 2:That's what I've seen so have you found that? For I certainly did this. It'd be interesting what you think around the scene. More senior you are in hr, is it less of a group? And therefore you need a community like what you've set up for people leaders, um who have to, as you said, balance between I'm not going to share it all with my team, even though they're amazing. I also can't share it my ceo or somebody else on the board in case they sack me. So have you found that group of community that you've created has been that level, or has it been a?
Speaker 3:mix. It's definitely been a mix. It's definitely been a mix. But we kind of have different parts of the community. I would say there's a senior leadership part of the community which maybe will come together in smaller groups and we'll be discussing um a lot of different things about how to transform the profession, or you know what we are going through yeah, as leaders, as you said yeah, I do feel that it does get more and more lonely, as you. It does more senior position I. I do think that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I suppose for you, it's that space that you said creates that safe space. How have you gone about creating that safe space for people that they because your membership is doing really well right, and I think we'll make sure people have signposts to your membership as well but how have you created that space where people keep coming back and going it's not just one and you're done. There's a, there is a sense of friendship among that community that you've created. How have you actually done that?
Speaker 3:I think part of it has been the event logistics, in a way, like how we curated the events, because we always choose really peaceful, beautiful spaces, and that was something that I was really.
Speaker 3:I really feel the environment is really important and then great food. You know different things that are happening throughout the event, so that's part of it. But then I always feel that people want to know why I started this and what the kind of purpose of it is, and so I generally want to share something about the story, and that's usually the opening kind of part of it of each event, and so it's then, you know. It's then leaving the way for people to be able to also tell us about what their stories are and you know what they feel and what they've been going through. And we have, you know, specifically chosen panels that will challenge people's thinking and will evoke thinking about how we're going through this rather than what we're actually delivering and what we're doing. And I think it's difficult to put a finger on why it feels safe, but a lot of the time, by the end of the event, we get people saying I didn't even know that I needed this, oh, brilliant.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think it's a combination of factors fact that you're challenging the profession and you're challenging the way we do things around here, and you know that must be so empowering to know that you can shape the face, or the future face of HR, or whatever we choose to call it. Um, going from there. And then it's how do you, how do you ensure that that their message gets heard and people take that back into their own organizations and start working on shifting the perception of just payroll and making sure the paperwork's right and sitting in the disciplinary, and how are you starting to see the shift in that?
Speaker 3:So I'm a massive believer that we are the only ones in the profession that can obviously change the profession and transform it as well. So there is a huge responsibility on us and so, again, we purposely have some parts of the event that are about us and then other parts of the event that are about and where are we going to take it from here, and so, hopefully, we're sending people back out into the workplaces, feeling that sense of belonging and regeneration in some way. In some way, because at the moment the events are, you know, a few hours only. We'd like to extend that event. You will, yeah, but also with new thinking. And you know, of course the event premise is not about sharing best practices, or, but of course that happens naturally as well.
Speaker 3:And you do get to see what different industries are doing, you know, and organizations are doing, and of course we always learn a lot from from that and apply what we can and what might work within our own organizations.
Speaker 3:And we also provide a lot of tools and resources, so we have a platform. So, when you join the community, there's lots of kind of human-centered policies that you can just take and download and tailor to your organization. And again, in there. There's lots of ways of thinking about how to transform your function, how to become more credible, how to use data and tell a story, how to speak the commercial language of the organization and to get buy-in, and there's lots of kind of additional resources and support that we offer. And also, throughout the month, we host in fact, we're hosting one today monthly mentoring with amazing chief people, officers or coaches or leaders who bring something new that again we can take back into our organization.
Speaker 3:I do think it is about the individual and the collective, because we we do massively need to transform the profession, and I think we need all stakeholders, we need the CRP to also help with this. We need organizations and leaders to believe in, you know, the fact that HR can help to create, um, ultimately, more productivity absolutely, yeah and to be listened to, as you said, and be in the places where you can make the biggest difference, so so on.
Speaker 2:that, actually, if you were to um sort of say to leaders, how can? Because we do have, you know, leaders, managers, listening, you know who are not in HR necessarily, but what advice or how could you help suggest, tell? Ask those leaders to prioritise more of listening to the people, support roles, the people that look after the people, so that they are one being looked after and don't feel burnt out like you did, but also are being heard enough to say that we can help you transform your business. What would you want leaders to do?
Speaker 3:I would want leaders to make the link between thriving people and good business and and you know, at the end of the day, their bottom line. I would want them to go out of their way to find out and make that link themselves. However, I know that that isn't always no, and so that is that. I mean there's so much research and evidence outside of the organization as well that that we as, as you know, the people, people can bring in to make the business case as well. Like you, you should be using as much as you can that's out there and from within the organization.
Speaker 3:Um, but yeah, I would want leaders to be more self-aware, I suppose, as as all leaders that's that's where I think it starts and to think about the impact that their leadership has on their own team in a wider sense, because I often feel, you know, we're in a very unique position in human resources in that we can see, you know, from bottom up, from top down and all around, and I think that often leaders are siloed and they are kind of thinking within their team, which you know, rightfully so, but again, it's sort of a double axe. It's our role to reveal the entire ecosystem to them and their part in it, and you know that kind of awareness piece as well. So I don't know if I've really answered your question?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think you have, because I think self-awareness for one recognising that they don't have all the answers is a second, knowing that there are experts around them that can advise them in a better way and that they, you know, it's just the buck, doesn't just stop with them. Ultimately, it's about that collective community spirit to move an organization forward together. And if I think I'm really a strong believer if they just stopped they that's always some, not all stopped and just thought about the impact. And it's not about them, it's about the people, and without the people they won't have a business. Not about them, it's about the people, and without the people they won't have a business. It's just really interesting to listen to you say that and how important it is to create that environment around it. So if you were to give some HR professionals and leaders listening today one powerful action that they could take this week to better support the people who look after others, what would you say?
Speaker 3:to them. An action that can be taken is some kind of audit, it's some kind of self audit as to where things are at right now within your team, or whichever aspect you want to look at it. Where are things now, where would you like it to be, and what have you not dealt with? You know that's kind of there that you've known about, because that's something that also happens so much in organizations, isn't it? We just look for things that we don't want to deal with, um, and hope that they go away or HR will deal with that I was going to say they give them to HR.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so the audit part of it is is, I think, important to do almost every every month really is just to see where you're at as a leader and your team and the people within your team. Yeah, so that's that's what one thing.
Speaker 2:That's one thing. I suppose that's where your consultancy hat comes in as well, because that's something you would come in and, if you like, do that with an organization who maybe want to look at that further and having what I call an independent coming in. But it doesn't matter what size organization you are. You could be a 10 man band or you could be 1000 or 100,000. You still need to do that bit of self reflection. And where are we now? Where do we want to be Right, so your consultancy will be able to enable that, so that people can flow freely. I like that. Why you called it from there, mentioned also abby about burnout. But so how do you, having recognized what was happening with you, even though you didn't recognize it, but then you realize you did, which is the common cause, right? Well, you all do that. How do you personally now recharge and look after yourself? Um, given that you're championing, really from the front line, with your community and with your consultancy, this aspect of people first, how do you look after yourself?
Speaker 3:so I really do prioritize what I put in my body, what I, how much I'm moving during the day. I think there's new things that have made me feel good from the inside out and at the moment I'm obsessed with Pilates. I get obsessed by things. I do them and do them, and do them, and do them, and do them, and then I'll move on to something else. But at the moment, pilates I really feel that I'm just making sure that those things are in my day and I will look at my day ahead, or sometimes even my week ahead, in terms of what I'm going to be eating, but also how I'm prioritizing exercise. So they're probably the two biggest things, but I also do incorporate meditation into my daily practice evening and morning. I love my mornings.
Speaker 2:And walking a lot of walking. I'm walking, a lot of walking, yeah, a lot of walking. I love that, and I think that's the bit we sometimes forget is to look after ourselves, because we don't look after ourselves, we can't look after others. Right, but where probably the you know burnout is like, oh, it'd be fun, I'll just do another hour, or just do that, or just do that, and it's still going to be there, isn't it? So I'm going from there.
Speaker 2:So, I suppose what I'd love to know. Finally, for you, what does success look like for people flow over the next five years? For you, People flow.
Speaker 3:In the next five years we're going to have different parts of the consultancy, so they'll outsource HR services, which is what we're offering, to lots of small to medium sized businesses who have no team or just, you know, very small HR team. Then there's going to be the culture transformation work, which is again what really lights me up and helping people. Teams change things from the inside. So that's usually larger organization and for the community, I, just we really. We have our first event abroad this year. So where is it? We're going to have our first event in paris, um, which is going to be in october. October, the 9th um, which we're going to start advertising very soon.
Speaker 3:Um, it's really expanding this network, um, and expanding this sense of community, because I think community is a word that's banded around a lot, but you really do have that sense, and certainly I do, but that's what our community members tell us, this sense of belonging. To expand that out across geography We've got some members already from the US, for example, and some in Europe but to extend that out further and also to be able to spend more time together, which I know everyone's time is always so tight. But I do feel that we are moving towards hosting retreats and hosting people who are in the people profession in some way, shape or form, um helping them to be better equipped to and to look after themselves in order to do their job. Oh my god I love that.
Speaker 2:So that's the date for the diary, if you're listening. 9th of october reach out. We get abby to share how people can reach reach out. Have you got any other events that are coming up?
Speaker 3:Yes, so our next London event, which is really going to be very exciting, is on a rooftop, so just after the summer, so the 4th of September, in London, and we're going to be well, the title of the event is Lead with Love. Yeah, but we are going to be looking at all of the things that we talked about today. Actually, we're going to be looking at transforming HR and how we get buy-in from senior leaders. We grow our influence. It's going to be a lot of fun, oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And if people want to find out more and even sign up and come along, how do they find you Abby?
Speaker 3:So the best way is through LinkedIn. Um, so abigail wilmore is my linkedin profile and we've got our people flow page as well there, but you can also find us on our website. So it's we are peopleflowcom. And then the events we we post them all on linkedin, but they are also on event bright yeah, okay, cool, so people can signpost them to there.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, abby, if there was one call to action that you're going to do for yourself over the next three months, apart from the events, what is? What is it you're going to do? I?
Speaker 3:am going to do. You know what? I'm going to finish clearing out all of the hordes of stuff that I have in my top cupboards, because I'm partway through and doing it is just. It's so. It's making me feel so much lighter, like I've got so much more space in my in my mind, in my heart and also in my home. So, yeah, I'm going to finish that over the next three months, hopefully before the next three months, before the next.
Speaker 2:I love that. Okay, so next time I'll chat to you, I'll go. How's that going to you? I'll go. How's that going? I will. Yeah, how's it going? Abby, come and do mine. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you and we're you know it's just listening to that. We could chat for ages and I think when you start chatting about what HR people bring the people in the people business, they do bring, to not listen and to not tap into their expertise and experience, because I think we all join the people, functional personnel, as when I joined, like you, as personnel um was because you care about the people and that's why you join it. So, and that hasn't changed, has it over the years no, not at all.
Speaker 3:I. I totally agree with you, and and having this community in this network and hearing the stories of people and why they got to be doing what they're doing, it just, you know, reiterates that and strengthens it Brilliant.
Speaker 2:I love that. It's been a real pleasure. Abby Well, have a good next couple of weeks. I look forward to seeing you at one of your events as well, but thank you for your time today. Take care. Thank you so much. See you later so law. What did you think?
Speaker 1:I've got post-it notes galore and you know it was interesting, deb's right. I was sort of listening in a couple of the breaks and lunch break in a workshop that I was running today where throughout the day I could see the energy in the room warming up because a team actually had some time together to let some of those kind of friendly conversations sort of get fostered and all of the things she talks about. When people need a sense of belonging, I feel part of something, a sense of purpose. I know the difference I'm making and a contribution. I know the difference I'm making and a contribution. I know what to do.
Speaker 1:The conversations we're having today is some people were saying you know, I just turn up and because we're waiting for a vision from the higher management, we're all just sort of waiting to be told what to do and it really impacts your sense of empowerment and the world is full of uncertainty at the moment and that sense of having, you know, a culture where you feel like you belong and looking out for each other. So it was just fascinating because I was half listening into the uh to what Abigail was saying and thinking I'm literally seeing it today the impact it is when people know that they're cared for um and the the difference that makes my morale and a performance point of view yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 2:And what I loved obviously she comes from a hr background like myself, and sometimes you do feel quite lonely in that world, and what she's created through people flow is a community that come together um, you know, to be able to talk about stuff that they may not be able to share in their team, wider teams or the teams they work with or support because they're in inverted commas HR. So where do people go? For those people that look, I'll have to look after the people, where do they go? And the fact that she's recognized that and put her whole community together around it, I just think it's brilliant because you know, if you haven't got your friend who's also a colleague in doing the same role as you in HR, say, it is really difficult if you're just a lone HR representative because nobody quite gets it, and if you haven't got that colleague who you could just bounce an idea off of or go oh my God, that was horrendous, or or or.
Speaker 2:I think that's what's missing and I think she has absolutely done that well for that group of individuals that need that outlet and come together and feel like they belong. And, as she said, they belong, they have that purpose, they know what they're contributing and could have had that. In my day I had my work bestie, who I'm still in touch with now. So that friendship we created way back then I still she is my bestie and I'm a godmummy to her children and that's the friendship we created because we were aligned together in a common cause and I thought, yeah, that's why it works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially if you've got the type of job where you need to keep secrets and keep a professional barrier, you know, if you're kind of, you know an expert in your organisation and you know part of your role is to keep that sort of distance and you can't sit there and just chat about what you've done that morning because you're holding some sort of private and confidential information.
Speaker 1:I think that's great. You mentioned the word alone and just to sort of end on this, one of the guys that was on the session today. He said I feel like I was a lone wolf coming in and I now feel like I'm back in the pack and I can just I know what I'm doing, I just feel connected and I think that would be my share the secret. That'd be great to hear your call to action, deb. So my share the secret would be if there's someone in your team or your colleague and you think, oh, actually we used to have a bit of interaction but for whatever reason, we don't now Get them to listen to this and then maybe have a bit of a think around, how can we create more opportunities to have those connection moments and how do we ensure that, as we're busy looking after everyone else, we're also getting our own needs looked after as well.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that and I think that's sort of similar to my call to action would be find the people that can help you look after the people and find that common ground your tribe if you like where you can have a safe conversation. So who is that? Find them, and don't forget that HR are human too. That would be my passing comment. Well at this stage in 2025, but you know, please remember that HR are human. Please remember that that would be my call to action.
Speaker 1:Remember, they're human too, absolutely. And those HR people. They are dealing with all of the stuff that society can't quite wrap its head around. Now that is all coming on HR's door to sort of try and negotiate and work all around those. So thank you to all the HR people out there thinking where's the process written on this?
Speaker 2:There's no process, so we've just got to use our discretion and if we create our friendship group that we can bounce that off of, then we're not alone. We have a yeah, as your person said. Yeah, we're not alone. We have a yeah, as your person said yeah, we're not alone. Then, yeah, I loved it yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks, des. I can't wait for next week. So, uh, this is the. This has been the third and our four-part focus looking at friendships at work, as we are covered in our first one. So episode 244, gallop um, surveys over the issue. Very clearly, when you feel like you have a best friend at work, you are far more likely to feel engaged, sense of belonging and wanting to deliver your best work. So, rather than a nice to have actually creating opportunities for people to have friendships at work is a culture sort of enabler. We then heard from the brilliant Carl Orko on the second episode about actually it's not just hanging around with the same people with whom you might hang around with outside work. One of the benefits around work is it gets you to interact with people who kind of shift your worldview and you know you can learn from those sort of different friendships. So creating a belonging for all, even if that person might be quite different from you. This one has been about helping the people, that help the people and, yeah, tell us about next week's one.
Speaker 2:So the fourth in our four-part focus.
Speaker 1:Friendships at Work.
Speaker 2:So this is we're talking to Tash Costa-Thomas, actually, who has her own consultancy, and she talks about how friendships can last a lifetime, but also picking up on that theme that actually we've spoken about and all the way through is that sense of feeling part of a community and belonging. So she's going to share her experience, as it's a continuation of a conversation, that if we have conversations, we keep topics alive, not just one and you're done oh, beautiful Debs, now listen, you and I are not women of that one.
Speaker 1:And you're done, we're that'll be episode 247. Wow, I mean, we have polished that carousel of content until it gleams it is, and we're adding to it all the time. Though we are adding to it all the time, of course. That's why it's so great to have guests, because it keeps things fresh and we see things in a different perspective everyday school day and all of that.
Speaker 2:So, debs, looking forward to next week, have a fantastic week you too lovely, and I'll see you next week.
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