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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
253. Playground to Boardroom – Instilling Foundations for Workplace Success
Welcome to our latest 4-part mini-series exploring what it really means to set up the next generation for success in the workplace.
We look at the core foundations that help people thrive at work, from building confidence and emotional intelligence, to role-modelling healthy behaviours and setting clear boundaries. In this episode we discuss how today’s world of constant technology, hybrid working, and ever-present “little eyes and ears” at home has changed what it means to learn, lead and grow.
We explore:
- Why role-modelling values like integrity, respect and curiosity matters more than ever.
- How to create a safe space for learning and mistakes – without judgement.
- The impact of home-working on what the next generation sees (and hears!) about “work.”
- Practical actions we can all take to instil confidence, emotional literacy, and resilience in those around us.
A useful listen for anyone supporting early-career talent, mentoring younger colleagues, or simply reflecting on the responsibility we all have to pass on sustainable working skills.
Secrets from a coach thrive and maximize your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson Stavely of Phenomenal Training. Debs, laura, you alright. Devs, law, you all right. Yeah, all right. It's good to be sitting opposite again on this uh episode number 253, how you doing.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm not doing too bad. Um, it's, and I think it's quite apt actually that what we're talking about today, because, um, that bit around playground to boardroom type thing it sort of fits with, as people may or may not know that obviously, september September, that's this month August was a bit of a crazy month. That's how crazy it's been, with my dad passing sadly, but he had a life lived with love. So that's all you can ask for, um, and I suppose it's relevant with some of the lessons that he taught me from. You know, the academic year starts in September.
Speaker 1:But actually unbeknownst to us back in the start of this year. This has grown on to be quite a hot topic, so much so, rather than just a one-off episode, this is our latest four-part miniseries all around what does it mean to set up the next generation for success in our workplace? And there have just been so many changes in the last five years alone, kicked off with the pandemic, hybrid working, ai, the advent of remote working as well. We have mental health, which is a conversation that happens in the workplace now which wouldn't have 10 years ago. And although we've touched on a number of episodes around intergenerational working, we thought it's such a hot topic and is part of how to evolve our skills in the rapidly transforming world of work that it deserved four different sort of focus areas. So we've got a couple of guests, which I think is going to be always good, uh good to just hear some different perspectives, and this one is looking at from playground to boardroom. What does it mean to instill those core foundations for effective working?
Speaker 2:yeah, definitely, and I think it'd be a really good one actually law, because even when we did our workplace survey, um, I think what we're found is that, talking about mental health, people are more confident to talk about mental health. So, whereas they probably move from the playground of oh, it's all been a bit scary and it's all been this and I'm not talking about it if you're not talking about it to no, let's talk about it. So, even that 73% of our managers that took our survey recognised the fact that they're comfortable to have a conversation around that now. So I think this is, you know, as the more we do it, the more you talk. So having this as our topic, I think, is perfect timing for what's going on yeah, okay, fab.
Speaker 1:So let's sort of uh tap into that magic power of three. So maybe, if we have a discussion around current state so what are we seeing around us that are kind of key with this idea of instilling foundations from, uh, from playground to boardroom then let's have a look at what does that mean for us right now in terms of a call to action, if you are a fully paid, tax-paying adult in the world of work, what does that mean in terms of things that we can do to um, to help instill foundations? And then maybe, if we have a focus on sort of call to action and next steps and that fits in really nicely with some of the later episodes we've got. So, debs, whether it is one-to-one coaching space or one-to-many in a workshop facilitated space, what are some of the things that you're picking up that are relevant to this idea of instilling core foundations for effective working?
Speaker 2:yeah, oh, there's so much, isn't there, lauren? We could probably speak for hours on it, hence we've got other guests talking about it as well. But for me it's picking up the fact that young people coming into the world of work that have not been taught how to do some of this stuff. So part of our role and I put all of us in that who are in the world of work, I think it's our, you know, don't just teach them how to do stuff. Your model, how to do it, role model, show values, start to connect with who they are, what's important for them, because otherwise, if they're not getting that outside of the world of work and they're only hearing it from one side, they're not hearing it from people that have got wisdom, have been around for a while, um, and I think that's what's going to really set them up for success, rather than suppose sit there and go well, they don't know what to do. Well, no, they won't know what to do because nobody has taken that time to maybe sit down and explain. This is how we work and this is what we have to consider from um, I suppose, a respect point of view, um, and a trust and a learn um, and I think that's I think that's really key. They're gonna have to learn from somebody. So why would it not be you, if you know, if you're a decent human being that actually does want to see young generation people succeeding in the world of work and to not have any assumptions?
Speaker 2:I think that's the thing we've noticed is people assume that they know how to be um, and then they judge them and they criticize them and you're going but what have you done to help them? What have you done to show them the way? And then we get back um, sometimes what it's really difficult to talk to them because they're always on their phone. I said, well then, no, that's not true, is it? You know if there is a time, but if you haven't set boundaries around that as to when is the right time, when is the wrong time, then they're not going to know any different.
Speaker 2:So you know, we all learn to ride a bike at some point. And if you think, when we're in this playground trying to whiz around on the two wheeler things and then falling off again and again, we know we weren't judged. It was like oh, never mind, get up, let's have another go. What could you do? So, even from that young age, we were taught that it's okay to make a mistake, um, and to be supported to learn how to get better at it. So why would we not do that in the world of work today?
Speaker 1:yeah, why I don't get it you know just when you're using the example of riding the bike. Of course we wouldn't have been getting videoed and posted online.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true process yeah, and I and I know you know we won't be the first people to talk about the impact of being constantly videoed and watched, but actually, when you're being videoed and watched, you are being judged and and actually, who would want to make their first sales call in a quiet office space at like 9 15 on a Tuesday when it's about to start power hour, if potentially you knew you were going to be getting recorded, um, and listened, you know, and and sort of listened into? So that ability for that the vulnerable learning process, to be recorded and therefore shared and potentially be an embarrassing moment, I don't think I.
Speaker 1:I never had that fear when I was in my learning the craft if I think about the embarrassing moments I had running my first training sessions, know forgetting my name, calling myself Tora Lompson because I was so nervous. You know, and at that point it was only me and the 18 people in front of me and the mental observant at the back that remember it. No one was videoing that and then potentially putting that online, and I'd never have stood up if I thought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it Really?
Speaker 1:stream. So yes, thank you, you've just got me thinking. I wonder if part of it is how we you know, people who were of our generation, who weren't raised in a mobile phone world, um, never had to worry about you know, just go for it, be confident. You know what's the worst that can happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you're not going to get videoed and potentially posted online yeah, or someone's going to take the mickey out of you or, as you say, people are judging you. And I think even that's a really good point, actually, because even though you were in the room, people were watching, you still do the training, even though you've, you know, your mouth had dried up and, as you said, you called yourself something completely random your hands shakingings, you can't drink water in front of people, all of that stuff all of that, but I suppose, and because it was on such a smaller scale, you knew it wasn't going to go out of the room, um, but now you're quite right.
Speaker 2:So I suppose there is a level of how do we enable people to learn in a in a safe and healthy way, knowing that they're not going to be videoed or judged or mocked because no one would want to do that.
Speaker 1:Then so what else are you spotting? So I guess that learning mindset and how the perspective might be slightly different now for, just you know, jumping into being a learner and just being vulnerable and being okay with that. Well, actually there is a slightly different environment now, potentially, than what there was kind of 20 years ago. What else are you seeing is you know some current hot topics around this idea of setting up next generation.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot to do around awareness. Confidence is a massive, massive thing, and being able to, I think, the earlier we can enable people to have an awareness of who they are, what they stand for. How can they, if you like, how can we help them model emotion, being emotionally intelligent around that, so showing empathy for others, resilience, all of the things that we know, um, come into ei, um, but also that emotional regulation, because it's not good, it's not okay, to throw your toys out the pram in the middle of a packed office. Um, you know so. Therefore, if we're not helping people understand what's the right or wrong here, then they're never going to learn either. So I think it's really complex at the moment to get yourself through the world of work, but if we're not supporting them by understanding what your strengths are, let's have a look at what your working style, what's your preference? You know, what do other people like? How do they like to work? What are your own core values? Do they align with the people in your team? Um, and then helping people with the confidence to speak up.
Speaker 2:I think you know when we we were talking about this just before, and so many people forget how to have a conversation, um, because their heads are in the phone and it's all by WhatsApp.
Speaker 2:I mean, we do it, we voice note, you know, and it's blah, blah, blah, and it's when we pick up the phone we go oh my God, I'm actually speaking to you.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm actively trying to have a conversation rather than voice note or text it, because it's just not the same, because it's just not the same.
Speaker 2:And I think we have to help people recognize the power that it is when you are communicating well and that you have the confidence to speak up and share your thoughts with no fear of judgment or being shut down, so being able to articulate it well. So building your emotional literacy quickly and early on as possible can also help knowing what your style is, your communication style, knowing what could be a trigger for you as well, and, as we know, you know ei is the biggest predictor of success than iq, as daniel goldman says. But I think we need to remind ourselves of that stuff sometimes. Um, and promoting curiosity over perfection, because that can knock somebody's confidence as well if they're only being told that that's not good enough, or or not being told anything and just finding out they're making mistakes because no one's taking the time to have a conversation with them or set their boundaries or different things like that, and that chips away at somebody's confidence. Oh, absolutely, and it's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Des, I was just thinking. You know, someone's face might have fillers and filters, but when you're there in a live environment there's no hiding room, you know. And I guess if you're leaving a voice note you're somewhat protecting yourself a little bit because you're not going to get immediate conflict. You know, I might put a voice note out saying, oh can we have a chat about X? And then you give me a voice note back, but I'm not having to handle it right in that moment, I'm not having to fill out or put a sort of a profile, you know, a filter on my response.
Speaker 2:And maybe that's where, actually, from a confidence point of view, which is, you're all right when you're natural, Like it's OK, it's just being intentional with that sort of natural response, and we call this from playground to boardroom and you know this will link, maybe, onto our second focus, which is, if you look up at the boardroom and everyone is acting like they're in a playground, then yeah, that's what you're role modeling yeah, and and for people coming into the world of work, and that could be their very first experience of that, and then they might think that's normal and then they might move on to go to a different job, different organization, different company, and expect, or they then behave in that way and then it's not accepted oh my goodness, that will create like it's literally putting the cat among the pigeons.
Speaker 2:And then you're, then you have got, you're judged, then, um, because you've not been shown, if you like in inverted commas the right way to be in a group situation where you know you, you have some ways of working or you have a welcome environment where you actually embrace different thinking.
Speaker 2:But if that isn't spelled out and all you see is kids playing in a playground, running riot, and that's all you've learned and you see it's not like that, you either will not join in and stand back and therefore be, I suppose, seen as not contributing, or you might be the kid in the playground that goes let's just disrupt everything, and then you'll be known as that troublemaker.
Speaker 2:So it's such a fine line to navigate your way through it, but if we role model it in the right way in the first place and not be in the playground, but I think that comes into. You know, even though we talk about parent, adult, child, sometimes we, as you're going to talk about, I know, lord, that we have to be the parent, sometimes, when we have been in the world of work and we have done that and realize that's not how you're going to be, so, rather than find out too late, um, and get marked, if you like, then how can we help people know how to collaborate, you know, and know how to work well together and the importance of being as one and the power that sits behind teamwork.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. So this first focus has been looking at what are we seeing, what are some of those foundations that are are likely to uh, you know, be effective foundations for for working, and the emphasis we're taking on this is an absolute. It absolutely is the opposite of them.
Speaker 2:Lot need to learn from us lot?
Speaker 1:yeah, absolutely not yeah, in fact, quite understandably, the younger generation might be looking up at the older generation going what have you lot done?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so this is not about you know, trying to force old fashioned principles, but I guess it's looking at what are some of those sustainable foundations that actually are. Know, five of you age 18, at some point you might need to sell, get seed investment from people that are older than 18. So even if the business you're setting up is wholly designed for and selling to people who we would consider young, then at some point still there's going to be a requirement to be able to work cross-generationally and likewise.
Speaker 1:So you might be, you know, a group of 50-year-olds that have all got a really thriving business. At some point you might need to engage with people who are below the age of 50. So, yeah, we can't sort of operate, I guess, in a sort of a silo. So let's have a look at our second part of our Magic 3, debs, not the Power of 3.
Speaker 2:Power of 3. Power of 3.
Speaker 1:Power of 3. Too many Debs and we forget what we're saying don't we?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm guided by you.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, you should have seen me in my early 20s. I could have done best of 10, but now it's 3. Now it's 3, yes, so let's have a look now on. What does this then mean for us as role models? Debs, do you know a story that sticks out for me and this is in the spirit of not judging, but just being taken aback, I bet, I guess, about how it all joins up.
Speaker 1:So I remember having a conversation with someone who was in their sort of facing. They were sort of planning for retirement and they worked in a big organisation, the transport and travel industry, and they were rolling their eyes and saying, oh, the new breed coming in today. You know, they don't know. They're born, they've got this benefit and that benefit and they don't know anything. And I'm not sharing all the info that I've spent all these years kind of doing.
Speaker 1:And I remember thinking, yeah, but surely, mate, your work pension is based on your organization still saying solvent. So like actually your refusal for the next two to three years to mentor, pass on this wisdom that you've worked really hard to get. At some point that's going to become a bit of an own goal, because if actually the retiring element of an organization does nothing to onboard the inducting onboarding element, then at some point it's just that the economics doesn't quite work out. So I was sort of sitting there kind of going all right, well, it's probably in the right place to have this conversation.
Speaker 1:But I do remember thinking, actually, if we take a big, high level perspective on this, it's in everyone's best interest to set up the younger generation for work, because if you're expecting a state pension, we need to have people employed, and if you need to have people employed, then it is in our long-term best interest. You know, not just morally, and you know the right thing to do from an integrity point of view, but commercially, financially. Yeah, we have to be setting up the next generation, otherwise it all just falls apart. So that just stuck with me. Devs about if we join things up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is a moral as well as commercial duty of care for for us to, uh, you know, consider ourselves as role models yeah, I'm, I'm with you a hundred percent because you can see if you go into some um some I was going to say some shops, some food shops. I was observing and because I've just been wandering around and I was listening, overhearing a conversation from an office manager to somebody to go on the till, and I listened and I went, did they just say that they were so rude and dismissive of this younger person? And as this young kid walked away, I could hear him mumbling under his breath and I thought, wow, that's just set that relationship up to fail straight off, because there was this. Definitely I'm going to tell you what you need to do. And I thought, wow, that's just set that relationship up to fail straight off, because there was this. Definitely I'm going to tell you what you need to do. And I'm thinking that kid was super smart because the conversation that was happening before he was asking great questions when can I put this? There's no room on this shelf. I think I should put it on this one. It's still in eyesight. He'd obviously listened to his training about where to pitch products so that people can see it.
Speaker 2:This person, the manager, just completely ignored him and just didn't listen and still went down that route of pushing him over to somebody else. No time, nothing. And I just sat and I just listened and I went, oh my God, and I had. I was obliged to walk up to this kid and say you know what? What I loved about what you did then was you didn't react in the moment and you just passed it through.
Speaker 2:And he goes I'm not bloody doing that again. And you think what a waste. That is such a missed opportunity. Because had that manager had some level of emotional intelligence, recognising where they were in that moment, they could have really lifted that kid up. Listen. They could still have said no, it's not what we do. Or let me show you how we do that. I love the idea and giving them the feedback, um, in that moment, rather than just crush them because that relationship is not going to work. And now you know why people are going about the manager um, because they don't listen. It's like it's because of what they did or didn't do. It's no wonder, and I just don't get it law.
Speaker 1:Um love the fact that you just can't help yourself. Devs, there you are, I know there you are. Find deodorant in the uh, in the health and beauty aisle.
Speaker 2:You can't help yourself. I couldn't help it, I just couldn't help it. And I thought I did stand there and go. Should I go and say something? And I thought, what if I don't? That kid's never going to know that actually what he did do was the right thing to come up with a different solution to a problem. And if he didn't hear that in that moment, does that mean he, he will never, ever then share his ideas or go on to, or feel less confident to share them in the future? So I was in that. I mean, yeah, he doesn't know me from Adam, but I was in this real catch-22 and I just went no, I'm gonna do it. I trusted my gut and went no, I'm gonna say it because you know it's.
Speaker 1:It's a lesson learned right and, um, I'm dead excited because we're gonna do a proper whole episode on this about giving feedback. So I'm super excited about that Because I guess one of the aspects we wanted to kind of bring out a bit of airtime on this topic was what does that then mean? For if you are in the world of work and you consider yourself a fully grown adult, then what does that then mean? To be a good role model? And we, you know, we like sort of our mnemonics and I was thinking, yes, you need patience. So in that moment, the patience to be able to think right, I could just tell you the answer.
Speaker 1:But actually, if we want to nurture next generation talent to be able to think for themselves, we might need to take five minutes out rather than 50. You know five seconds. So that'd be great to get your thoughts on coaching as a skill to roll in a moment, a bit of purpose. So actually, is the purpose just to end the shift early or is the purpose to, every now and then, just to think a bit bigger picture? Actually, my purpose as someone who is considered an adult in in this team is to do some adulting, and part of that is to is to role model.
Speaker 1:So is the purpose of this meeting just to run it, like I have done for the last 10 years, or actually I can see if we've got some fresh meat around the table? Let me ask maybe more questions than I might have before, because this purpose of this meeting is twofold number one to run the meeting and number two to show how to run meetings so that, as and when the manager's off on holiday, people can then sort of replicate it and then the presence, so being present in that moment or thinking, actually this is one of those learning um moments. But debs, what's, what's the balance between? This isn't about being soft and not working and then feeling sorry for everyone that's younger, just just just ensure that we've got the right balance here. So this isn't about about, you know, overly supported.
Speaker 2:It's about no, it's definitely not. Yeah, appropriate level of support, and I think that comes back to how astute you are in your levels of emotional intelligence and how well do you know the people that you are working alongside. So you understand for me, you understand where are their levels of knowledge, skills, experience, behaviors, attitude. Are they like, okay, they're here, or are they really low, um, or they just need some more support? So I think it's really really important for us to be observers first, um, and not paint everybody with the same brush. I think that's really important Understanding everybody's different. But it's not being soft, as you said. It's just creating clear boundaries as to what's acceptable and what is not acceptable and how we behave around here, because people without that clarity and certainty to feel safe so we, you know, to create that safety they would just run riot or they will just make it up. So we have to see it from that point of view and from a coaching point of view.
Speaker 2:It is definitely not soft when you're coaching somebody because you're moving them through either quite quickly from where they were to where you need them to be, or by asking some great questions and saying so, what will you do differently next time? How can, how can you demonstrate them to be, or by asking some great questions and saying so, what will you do differently next time? How can, how can you demonstrate that to me? So bringing coaching into those conversations means it's a what I call a proper conversation. I haven't told you, I haven't also asked you, I haven't bent over backwards to placate you or please you. I've kept it to a space of based on facts what I saw, what I heard, what I observed, what I'm noticing. Therefore, let's explore what you can do different, more of less of better, but you know, what are you learning from that? So it becomes more of a rounded conversation, which is quite hard-hitting at times, because you're saying what you see rather than judging everybody by your map of the world oh, love it.
Speaker 1:so I'm listening to this and I'm thinking, okay, so, as the um, the mum to a 12 and a 13 year old, then thinking, all right, well, what is my responsibility then? To role model these working skills? Yeah, in our dinner table, you know, and yeah, you know. So, so, in our kind of playground, if, if, uh, you know there's uh, what does that then mean? To role model this? And I guess it's not putting extra pressure on as a working parent or working caregiver if you've got younger people in your in your midst. So it's not about adding the pressure on, but but it's just having one eye on Whilst I'm working, rolling my eyes, slagging off my colleagues Not me, of course, dad, kind of you know talking negatively about them, chucking your toys out the front.
Speaker 1:Chucking my toys out the front, that might be how I'm. You know I'm venting in that moment, but if there are little eyes watching, that is what they are observing behind the scenes. As to what it means to go out to work and where I never would have seen my mum and dad in their work, yeah, that's true, they were physically somewhere different. But if you're working remotely and you've got little ears listening in, yeah, that's suddenly. I reckon we're a much more watched um workforce than um than our, you know, than people who were in the world of work 80s and 90s were because, um you know, that's a good cat working from home.
Speaker 1:So your between teams call venting is potentially now being listened to, yeah, by a pre-teen. And then you're thinking I wonder if at some point would I want that behavior sort of replicated. Yeah and uh, you, you know, that's one of the challenges, I think, with home working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, very true.
Speaker 1:Your colleagues might not see you, but future talent pipeline might be watching. So this isn't to add more pressure on no, it isn't it doesn't guilt trip anyone, but it's one eye on. This is a job I'm doing right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But also there is maybe some things that I'm role modelling, that, yeah, a bit of a mirror moment every now and then I've certainly thought a bit differently about that's interesting, yeah about actually what do I? I can't go downstairs and talk about something that didn't go well. Yeah to a 12-year-old during the summer holidays.
Speaker 2:Go, what are you on about? Yeah, mind you, they'd probably give you some very good advice. That is true, actually. Yeah, get over yourself.
Speaker 2:But saying that, though, they also that's an interesting one, because if that person was venting and that little ears were listening, um, and they might be about to go on to work placement or experience, or into the world of work and they and they don't see the repercussions of me venting on the other end. So the you know I might go, then I turn up at work and everything's lovely, um, and that, so that person observing doesn't actually see what the consequences of that behavior are or the actions of it are, because they're being shown something that's not quite right. It's a moment of reaction rather than a sensible way of approaching it, but they're never going to see what the outcome is in the workspace, so they're. Are they going to learn to vent at everything, possibly, or are they going to have a balance, more of a balanced view around it? Just, yeah, that just made me think, really, because they won't know what, the, what the outcome of that conversation will be ultimately at the end. No, yeah, they don't see it.
Speaker 1:I think this has been a fascinating conversation, devs, because it's like with all of these sort of hot topics at the moment, you start picking up one stone, yeah, and you see more and more and more and more, which is why I'm super excited about the other three episodes that we're going to have.
Speaker 1:So next week we've got a fantastic guest, katherine allen, who's going to take us, from a graduate perspective, that idea of high talent, potentially low etiquette, and what does that then mean with the work that she does with big corporates to sort of onboard new talent? Well, so let's do our call to action, share the secret. So we've talked about what are we seeing as some of those foundations to instill from playground to boardroom. What are some of those big skill areas and mindset areas? We've then had, I guess, a bit of a mirror moment, really, of what does that then mean? For if you are a fully grown adult in the world of work right now, what does that then mean in terms of our responsibility to role model some of these things, our responsibility to um, to role model some of these things, and also chuck in a bit of working from home if you have little ears listening, not to add on more pressure, but just an awareness of yeah it all goes in somewhere.
Speaker 1:You know we're all kind of learning, sort of, from that. So what's that then mean in terms of being that sort of um, that good mentor, that good role model? So what are you thinking would be a call to action, james?
Speaker 2:oh. So my call to action would be around, I suppose, modeling the values, not just teaching them, and then definitely not following through on them. So don't you do what you say you're going to do and do it um, because I think young people do spot inauthentic. I can never say that word. Inauthenticity. Yeah, is that how you say it.
Speaker 1:Well done deborah, I observed how you worked saying that word and you put it on the eyeline byline shelf.
Speaker 2:Well done thank you very much, lord. I appreciate your feedback. They can spot a faker quickly, let's say that. Um so for me, my call to action would be I you know, if you're in on your own, people are watching, observing all the time, so just being mindful of that as well. So, yeah, integrity, respect and care in your daily actions would be my call to action.
Speaker 1:love it, debs, and my share, the secret would be um, I guess, who would this? What would it be this a good listen to? So if you're working with someone with whom is kind of rolling their eyes a little bit about you know these young ones sort of coming in, I guess you've got a choice. Do you perpetuate that and then you're just creating more judgment, with everyone just looking at each other and judging, or do you circuit break that? So nice, having a listen maybe to this episode of, actually, what is our role in role modeling and instilling some of these core foundations? Do we perpetuate or do we circuit break? Choice is ours.
Speaker 1:So, and we welcome your thoughts on this, because you know, this is uh, I don't know if there's any people, team or hr team that have quite cracked it, which is why it's going to be brilliant next week listening from katherine allen. So, yes, deb, so it's been wonderful having this conversation. It has Good to be back. Yeah, good to be back, loved it. Well, have a fantastic week and I'll see you at the next one. See you at the next one.
Speaker 2:Love you lots, love you Bye.
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