Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast

261. When Them Becomes Us: Be the Culture You Want to See

• Season 21 • Episode 261

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In the final episode of our Thriving Workplace Cultures mini-series, we explore what it really means to be the culture you want to see. Because a great place to work isn’t built by policies or posters; it’s created every day by the people in it. The energy, attitudes and behaviours we bring to work shape the experience for everyone around us.

We talk about what helps teams truly thrive: strong connections, shared purpose, appreciation of differences, and a genuine sense of belonging. And we look honestly at what gets in the way (from “can’t be arsed” attitudes to unspoken tension and poor communication) and how to turn those moments into opportunities for growth rather than frustration.

We share practical ways to take ownership of your team climate: running better meetings, celebrating progress, addressing issues early, and balancing experience with openness to change. We’ll explore why self-awareness and intentional communication are the cornerstones of a great culture, and how your personal energy sets the tone for those around you.

Listen if you want to:

  • Reflect on your personal impact on your team’s atmosphere and performance
  • Strengthen trust, communication and connection within your team
  • Learn simple habits to help everyone feel valued, heard and motivated

Try this this week:
Ask yourself: Did I make it easier or harder for others to thrive today? Then adjust your approach accordingly. Because culture isn’t “out there”,  it’s us, every day, in action.

SPEAKER_03:

Coming up on this week's Secrets from a Coach. If you're sitting there in a really frustrating team meeting where nothing seems to get agreed, or you're part of that. So what role do we each play in creating a great culture at work?

SPEAKER_04:

What do you think might be going on for that other person? Put yourself in their shoes. You're not speaking to them for three years. How might that make them feel when they walk into a room with you there?

SPEAKER_03:

Secrets from a coach. Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Debs.

SPEAKER_04:

Law, are you all right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I'm doing well. How are how are things with you? What you've been up to?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, they're not too bad actually. I've been um yeah, quite busy working with some smaller teams, which is always lovely to do and getting under the surface of you know what's working, what's not, what could be improved, what could be better, how could we do it, all of that wonderful stuff. Yeah, ooh. What have you been up to?

SPEAKER_03:

Uh I've always had a busy, busy couple of weeks. So working with teams in the room. Um, one of the organizations that we're working with is currently up for sale. So that is creating a lot of uh noise and uncertainty. And I mean, we could have said the same at every check-in, couldn't we, Devs, for the last five years? There's always something going on, and somehow you've got to be able to just take all of these things that happen externally and just maintain enough internal calm space so you don't get overly bothered by the things that maybe don't count, but equally to not be so laid back and disconnected that you miss the opportunity to actually make some real difference. And I'm so looking forward to this fifth in our five-part focus debs looking at great cultures. We've looked at what to spot, how to um how to look after yourself, maybe if you're in a stressy kind of work environment, what it means in terms of being able to set good boundaries, to be able to cope with pressure, and uh, how do you keep professional when others are not? So, this idea of emotional detachment with compassionate engagement, which um I thought was a really nice way to summarise that. And this one, I guess, kind of rifts on one of my favourite phrases that I repeat all the time: if you're stuck in traffic, you're part of traffic. Yes. If you're sitting there in a really frustrating team meeting where nothing seems to get agreed, well, you're part of that. So, what role do we each play in creating a great culture at work? So, Debs, it'd be fantastic to get your read and to sort of share our thoughts, just to prompt sort of thoughts in all of us, really. What would you say are some of the current state um observations that you're seeing out there in terms of people's individual contribution to a collective team culture?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, there's been a real mixed bag law and fascinating to watch it unpick and be able to sit there and listen first and then challenge in the room what what you're hearing, what you're seeing. And I think the one that always steps out for me is if you are, you know, a head of leader of your part of the business, so if you know wherever it might be, and you representing that, the whole of your bigger, wider team, then how do you show up as if you are representing the wider team, not just your part of the business? Because that sets the tone for those people that may never come into contact with some of your fellow colleagues or peers, um, because they will go off the fact that, well, if you're like that, they must all be like that. And that, you know, might if you're great at it, awesome, because that rubs off on the team and go, wow, they're a really high-performing team, they know their stuff, they're all in alignment. That person that represents them is incredible at what they do and joins in and wants to make a difference. But if you're not and you're the opposite of that, that can set up the rest of the your wider team with a real, I suppose, negative perception, or others will have a negative perception or feel like you're challenging all the time, you're keeping stuff stuck, you're not very open, and therefore they won't want to work with you. And that's when people go looking for others that are probably showing up in a way that they do want to care, they do want to help, they do want to build that relationship, they do want to, you know, show you the way and be eager to eager to please is what came straight out then. But is it eager to please? I don't know, Law, or is it just being a decent human? Yeah, bothered. Am I bothered? Yeah, am I bothered? Am I bothered? I'm a bothered. Yeah, can I be asked? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, can I be asked? So it's it's been interesting to see how that plays out, not just on the team itself, but also the impact on the stakeholders they might have and the relationships they have to the wider audience. So I think for me it's the self-awareness piece. I mean, we always talk about having a great level of self-awareness, don't we? And that is where it starts. So knowing how you show up with self-awareness, I think, knowing what your triggers could be, what the impact is you're having, you know, what why, you know, how aware are you of your impact on others? You know, you're there for a reason. So what is that reason? Um, and just being in that place to go, yeah, am I going to bring what type of energy will I bring today? Because, you know, we get what we want it, you know, we think about want it or not, right? So if I'm thinking, oh, I can't be arsed today, guess what? I'll show up in a can't be arse mood and I can't be bothered. Um, and then that could have ripped ripple effects wider that we probably don't necessarily always see.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think there's a couple of sub uh uh uh thoughts that's going through my mind now around that. So, first off, I guess this isn't about pretending you're all right when it when you're not, because that can lead to burnout if you're sort of masking pretending. But I guess with that self-awareness is what's bothering me at the moment about this team meeting? What is it that means that why am I dreading it so much? So, what maybe what are some conversations I might need to have either with myself or someone else before beforehand? I think one of the two big non-technical skills that I think are going to be really future-proofing for all of us. So, this is some of the things that I are coming up in some of the workshops I'm having is how do you raise problems and challenges in a public space in an environment without you looking like the challenge or the problem? Yes, that's a good catch. Yeah. And that is where working out the whiffin, the what's in it for me for your key stakeholders. So um, let's say you are in a team where you don't bring the money in or you're not responsible for the client, patient, customer outcome, but you're asking for more resource. So you know why more resource is going to benefit, but unless you can articulate it in a way that other people see it as a value add rather than a cost. And I had a senior leader sharing their thoughts on a um a call, uh session I was running last week, saying how if unless you unless you position it as, well, we need to spend five million dollars to prevent a nine million dollar problem, if you don't talk about to prevent the problem, all it is is you're asking for five million dollars more, and you know, potentially there's gonna be a no to that. But rather than feeling sorry for yourself and kind of going, oh, no one understands us, actually, the responsibility to communicate that lies on the person that's doing the asking, surely.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. I I'm oh my god, and all I think you're spot on with that one. Um, the communication is key. Like with, you know, we always talk about having communication, building trust through consistency, being able to share, as you said, you're raising concerns or issues, but it's not you that is raising it. Um so I think the communication of that is super, super important to know well, what is it that I want to get out of this conversation? Um, and I know we had a bit of a laugh with a particular team I was working with where the buzzword at the moment is North Star. What's your North Star? Um, I always love all these buzzwords that fly around. And yeah, they have like, you know, we've already said like collaboration is the word of the year. Um, and you go, that's amazing. And if you say it enough times, people will go with it, but do they know what that actually means?

SPEAKER_03:

So golden thread, that's been one we've heard a while. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And then we had the North Star has done its pop back up again, which I can't remember the last time I heard that. Um, or the first time I heard it must have been about, I don't know, 20 odd years ago.

SPEAKER_03:

Doesn't work for the southern hemisphere-based uh organizations, but there we go.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, North Star. Uh I thought that was quite interesting. That and everybody, as soon as somebody mentioned it, because obviously that's the buzzword at the moment, um, the whole room just went, Oh, really? So even though somebody has got really good intent to try and motivate people or set up an arena where people feel motivated to contribute to that North Star, the fact they're using that language is turning them all off.

SPEAKER_03:

But Debs, I think this is that is a brilliant link to the second future proofing skill, I think, that um is in our gift to either do or not. So the first is how to raise problems and challenges without you looking like the problem child, basically. And that will be down to your relationships and your communication in that in that in that moment. Um the second thing, if it's not your first rodeo, if you have been through a few change curves in your career so far, how do you balance that wisdom to be able to share some stories from before about what's worked, what hasn't, to help? And without that tipping into bitter, cynical, uh rolling your eyes. So if it's not your first rodeo, I think part of the skill is going to be pretending you're still interested and energized and refreshed in it. Because as you what you were saying is actually if I'm just looking all uh, oh, here we go again, yeah. You know, we had this same conversation 20 years ago. At that point, I'm creating a traffic jam in that team's energy. And I don't know what the sweet spot is, Debs, because do we need to all pretend that we love what we're doing every single day and you know that we haven't got any kind of war stories that we can share? And I do think that's going to be quite interesting with people that consider themselves in the afternoon of their career. You've got loads of wisdom. How do you ensure that doesn't become baggage?

SPEAKER_04:

That just means people start not inviting you to meetings or they just roll when they say, Oh, here we go again, you know. But is that point part on is that partly on say if it was me on my you know 25th change programme and here we go again? And they said that last year, new leader comes in and woo, and off we go again. But isn't part of that reaction on myself to choose how I'm going to react? But if I've got a team of trusted allies around me where you go, guess what we talked about again, um, and everybody rolls their eyes, and but it it that's on me to to change that narrative, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and Debs, do you know what has been a reminder that I have setting up at the start that comes up on my phone for 9 a.m. whenever the start time is every day when I'm delivering stuff at the moment, is the I think it's the Greek philosopher, the Roman philosopher, I forget which one, but the name is the name is Heraclitus. Oh, that one. That one and the Heracletus um uh one, which I think I've banged on about before, is you never step into the same river twice. Oh, you're different and the river is different. Yeah. So although this might be the seventh leadership transformation project that you've been involved in, you're not the same person and it's not the same situation. And even just putting in we've got AI now, whereas three years ago that wouldn't have been sort of part of the gig. So that is what is helping me keep that steadiness of, well, and then it's my choice whether I want to be in the river or not. And if actually I can't be asked to even look interested in this change program, well, I'm not sure how many industries left there. Yes, how many industries there are left where I can just sit and sail along the river and just not do anything to get involved with that change. So, yeah, I like that look at the point phrase.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I just think that is part of, yeah, you're right. That is part of my responsibility. I'm I'm employed to do a job, and therefore part of my job is to understand their intent with their new idea, even though we've seen it a million times before. But it's how do how do we question it with curiosity to go, okay? I I'm really interested to hear how you feel that would play out. I'm I'm very happy to share my experience of when we did something similar, but as you're right, the river changes all the time. So whilst it it might felt like we did this four, five, six, ten years ago, things, the circumstances surrounding it now have completely shifted.

SPEAKER_03:

And Debs, it could be you you you just see the river in a different way. So actually, if this is the tenth time I've been through this, let me have a look around the team. What's the contribution I can make? Well, I can't get excited about the change because I just can't bear to fake that much, but I can get excited about how I can mentor, how I can steady any people that are kind of a bit worried, but maybe people that for whom this is their first rodeo. Yeah. How do I kind of reassure them? And you know, going from victim to agent, I guess, is is is that is that key thing of rather me going, oh, here we go again, you know, what when's things going to slow down? How can we um, you know, how can how can I do something that just stops this sort of change roller coaster rattling? Well, it's just the sign of the times at the moment, and maybe if you if it's a chance just to refresh it, if you're bored of change, find something that links to your drivers, if it's helping others, if it's learning something new, or you put work in the box to then and do other stuff around, like your wellness, as you said, to then ensure that your general energy levels are all right, so it doesn't come at personal health sacrifice.

SPEAKER_04:

No, it doesn't, and I think that's quite right. So I suppose when we think about this law, do we do we think what else we need to consider?

SPEAKER_03:

So, Debs, when you are brought in to facilitate big, hot and heavy, hefty team meetings. Um, and you know, for us all as a team, you know, we we do quite a few team facilitations and stuff, especially with hybrid teams. If you then bring in everyone together in a quarterly catch-up, you want it to sort of go well. So that's often where people will then think, actually, let's bring in facilitator. What are some of the tips and tricks that you do that creates a benefit to that team culture that is, you know, those meetings can make or break them in terms of uh an impact it has. Because I think that might be quite interesting to look at when a team employs an external energy to come in and facilitate, what is it that that um external energy brings in that all of us can then take away if some things that can then help contribute towards a good team culture?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that and that's such a good question. And there's a couple of setups that we normally would do is you know, Lia's with the key person. Um, if if you're coming in, if they get and everybody coming together for a week uh completely immersed in it, then have they set up a working agreement at the beginning? Are you the first person on? There's so there's all the logistical bits, but I will always set the tone on that morning. So, how are you arriving today? You know, so making sure that we do have a tight working agreement because today you've got me as an external, it's gonna feel slightly different because what we're gonna look at is whatever they wanted, you know, to get out of it. So I think that setup is really, really key. And also what happens is because we come in, we don't know their business. Um, I think that's the other thing which can make a huge difference. Because if they're saying we want to devise a strategy and a plan for the next six months, nine months, then in my head, okay, well, that's what you want as an outcome. And then we talk about how you how we might get there. So it sets it all up, and everybody goes, oh, lovely. Um, and then I think it's that ability to then pull them back to the reason we're here today is okay. So how does what you've just said fit with your six-month, nine-month plan? And if it doesn't, then let's move on because we're getting caught up in the detail, the weeds, and we're getting dragged into the day-to-day stuff. So as an external, I think sometimes you it's you're on an advantage because you you can ask those noddy questions, as I always call them, and you can call it as you're seeing it. Um, so but you have to be really my you know, what certainly for mine, my energy has to be completely in that room, completely immersed. So I can hear what's being said, what's not being said. You're watching all the time some of the reactions in the room and being able to pick that up and go, actually, before we move on, you know, I noticed, you know, so what's that, what's going on for you right now? What is it you don't like you've heard? So it's the ability to question well and also not cram the day full of tools and techniques because they're there for a particular reason, which is to come together to work out whatever. So if you're suddenly chucking in a model that is got nothing to do with them or you're trying to force theory down their throat, however, as the facilitator, you create a space that has some framework to it, but you're not ready to that framework. And it enables you to drop things in as they come up. So I think you have to be super skilled to be able to know. Actually, if I drop, say grip, which I yeah, we did last week and they loved it, um, I knew that if I drop that in as a this might help as a way of exploring what we need and keeping us up rather than get dragged down. Let's let's explore it through that lens. So if I didn't know that, I wouldn't have been able to have bought that in the room. And I think that's the skill of a of a great facilitator that they are not cramming it full of theory and text and slides. There's enough, but there's not. It's more about the conversation and being able to steer that conversation, but you have to know what they want as an output. So at the end of this day, or two days, or three days, or five days, when you walk out of this room, what do you want to walk away with? And they tell you, and you go, and that's what you can bring them back to all the time.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh and um you know, you don't have to have swallowed a great big book of content to sort of have have these ideas. And the grip tool works a treat, by the way, if you're thinking you might use it. Goals, roles, interpersonal relationships, processes, and it's a great way to um tidy up. It's a really simple way to structure the conversation. And that's interesting because actually I'm doing more and more of that where where if a client has asked, can you come and facilitate? And rather than just saying, right, you've got half an hour to discuss, your time starts now, actually to set that discussion up for success, and here are two tools that can help to get the information out and present it back in an easy way. So um if if facilitation is uh it it you wouldn't just you wouldn't consider that as like a core role of yours. But if actually you're thinking, actually, we've got a team meeting coming up, our culture is being a little bit rocky. This is a real culture reset this time together. It needs to go well. I want to minimize any awkward silences, but equally we want to have the space to be able to listen. What might be that way of setting up and that simple check-in, as you said, and what does everyone want to get from today? Putting it onto post-it notes, so then that means people who have more of an introverted preference in that moment feel okay rather than having to sort of force to sort of speak up, and it's a great way to sort of create that equality. And what I love that works well now that is so easy to take photos and send them everywhere, is at the end of that team meeting, you've got, let's say, a flip chart that has these are our takeaway commitments, and everyone is standing there by that flip chart because there's nothing so commitment, uh, there's nothing so much that reminds you of the commitment you've made by seeing your own self standing by the 90-day plan. So um, those are those are just a couple of things that can help. If you're thinking actually, my my team around me are just there's a bit of a malaise, there is a bit of lethargy around change. Um, they're uh, you know, the people that do know how to do it because they've been there, done it, worn the t-shirt, are just looking like they're just wanting to check out. The people that are new are kind of it's all still feels a bit overwhelming. And um, how do we then create that together time? And um, listen to this, Devs, right? So I was running um a leadership set two-day leadership session last week, and two and one of the leaders was saying, I'm quite new into the team, and I could tell there was something wasn't quite right with two of the team members, and no one had said anything to me. But when she basically had them in a room to just sort of say, you know, tell me what's going on, they hadn't spoken to each other for three years. Wow. Because one of them hadn't liked the way that they'd done a shift handover.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03:

And from that point on, it had just set and the seed had rotted and it just hadn't ever been approached. And subsequent managers just had left it, they hadn't sort of dealt with it. Where she thought, uh, there's no way I'm gonna be able to move this team on until we've got this sorted, because there's only 12 in the team. Wow. So if two people aren't speaking with each other, and they're all being very professional, no one had said it, but it then meant no one, it just was not a safe space because everyone was on eggshells.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow, that oh my gosh, three years. Three years, what the hell? But again, it comes back to how can you know if if we never spoke for three years, well for one, that's never gonna happen. But you there's a bit of you go, why are you like why would I hold on to that grudge or that moment in time? What is that says more about me or that person as an individual? They hold on to stuff because they've been done to, yeah, and it's like let it go. You know, life's way too short. Yeah, get a grid. Um, I just I really struggle when I hear that um in teams, um, you know, especially more recently, I need to watch that actually because I just think if if that's all you've got in my head, I'm going, if that's all you've got to worry about, Jesus, I want to be in your world, you know. But again, it's that ability to just show them the mirror a little bit and ask some questions around it. So, what do you think the impact is of that? You know, what do you think might be going on for that other person? Put yourself in their shoes, you're not speaking to them for three years. How might that make them feel when they walk into a room with you there? You know, and I'd say it to both of them. Um, but it's just that again, the awareness of you know, the again, the impact. Um, and we had an example of that actually, where somebody will say, um, they were talking about giving somebody some tasks on one of the team conversations we were having, but they never deliver against it. And they said, I said, Well, what's that all about? You know, and they said, Well, they say yes to everything. And as it was going through, um, they were chatting about it, and this person was getting more and more arate. I said, Can I just ask a question? Have you considered that person's cultural upbringing, their own values, their own way of being? What have they learned? What's respectful for them as composed to you? Maybe they're from a cultural background where they will say yes just because they want to serve and not necessarily have time to consider what they're saying yes to because they want to please or whatever. So I said, Have you considered the cultural differences that may be going on for that individual? And they hadn't. And it, you know, when you have that mic drop moment where somebody goes, Oh my god, I never I would never have thought about that individual's cultural differences will be to say yes because they don't want to offend you by saying no.

SPEAKER_03:

So steps, and then it's quite a simple thing, and then I guess the penny drop was rather than they need to do this, is yes, I just stop, I need to stop using.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I'm using it. Yeah, I or I need to communicate what I want, it comes back to self, right? Oh my god, I didn't even take that into consideration. And I think in especially in today's world, I think we have to. We just as leaders, we have to have that ability to look at it from all angles and have an awareness of different cultures, upbringing, beliefs, values, all of that stuff. And if we haven't done our homework around that, then no wonder we're berating people or there's a malaise that's set in or go, well, I'm not asking them because they didn't do it last time, but actually, you haven't stopped to figure out and put yourself in their shoes as to what is their upbringing, what would they expect from you? So I think I think it always starts with self.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And then let's just think about why we're focused on this in the first in the first place. Because when you've got a collection of people that truly are wanting to move forward together at pace, that feel connected and have a sense of belonging, who um enjoy each other's differences rather than getting really irritated by them because they can see you know the yin and the yang and the benefit of working with people, there's too much work for one person to do on their own. So when you feel like you're in an environment where you are getting stretched but in a way that you know is good for you and sort of you know good for your own sort of uh confidence and skill levels, then we're unstoppable, you know. I mean, when you've got that just that buzz and you feel it in the room, and whether that gets measured in the till, your um MPS scores, your patient outcomes, whatever that might be. And I think what's just so interesting at the moment in society is we've never had so much data, we've ever never had so much content. I mean, there's just too much stuff to read, and and it it's it's it's now I think the opportunity to to just come together, connect, as you said, and we've looked at some tips that can help that to create a sense of pace. Um, so being able to cut through stuff that's dragging us down, and um, and if actually part of that is um your own personal energy level, so look looking after yourself to then uh to then be be proactive, but just keeping eyes on the skies, you know, rather than them lot over there should be doing more of this. It is yeah, what is my contribution here? What can we achieve, and what's the end goal for?

SPEAKER_04:

So, shall I share three key things that sort of jumped out at me from the last couple of weeks, Law?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So, Law, my key things were, and they're just quite simple, actually. Like we're saying, we grip, celebrate progress, not just perfection. So, call out good work when it's working well. What have we done? How can we replicate that? Take ownership for the climate that you create. I think that more than anything, asking yourself, did I make it easier or harder for others to thrive today? So take ownership of the create the cult climate you want to create and be the energy that you want to attract. They would be my three key things.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god, devs, you know I don't have any tattoos, but I would seriously consider a full sleeve with those three beauties on.

SPEAKER_04:

I can book you in, Lord.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god, I love that. Love that, love that.

SPEAKER_04:

Which I think it's just, and you can make it that as you wish, but it comes back to really stop and think about you know, what energy do I want to bring? Did I bring? So I can, you know, I can be intentional about how I am being in that moment. Um, and what's one thing that I do that helps or hinders this team? Um, and be honest with yourself, because you know, we do know we're not stupid people, we know how to press other people's buttons. So I think that whole piece around looking within, you know, actually, do I want to create negativity energy towards me because I can't be asked contributing? No, I don't. Okay, so that means I need to make a change.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think my share of the secret would be this isn't to put more work onto our workload, like this is just to make work easier because when there is an element of optimism, there's that sense of hope and confidence. And I was just listening with your sort of just flipping that about the be the energy you want to be, etc., it also removes fear and anxiety about being responsible for um too much stuff. You know, we all sort of impact on each other, and if it feels like there's a lot of you know burdens that you're feeling on your shoulder at the moment, the the the we're we're all it's bigger than just one person. So that comes with the reminder of so therefore be aware of your impact you have on others, but also um other people might be impacting you as well. So it's it's it's not all on us because that that's when I think it can it can be a bit kind of overwhelming when you feel like you're the only one. So my share of the secret would be have you got a friend or a colleague or someone in your network that does seem to be feeling a little bit dragged down by their um culture they're in at the moment. So they're saying, Oh god, we've got a team meeting next week. And again, listen to this. Number one, you're not alone. There's a lot of this around at the moment, and number two, it's those small little things that can make a difference to uh getting from the drag to then a little bit of a spring in your step. So, Debs, I've loved this um episode.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, it's been so cool, hasn't it? I really enjoyed chatting about this, and um yeah, no, certainly some of the feedback we've had come back to us has been around it's really just made me stop and think. And That's what we want it to do, you know. It's part of it. If it makes you just stop and think that then job done, you know, it's it's up to you what you choose to do with it, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this has been the fifth in our five-part focus looking at culture. And we are going to be there for focusing on a new mini series. Shiny new mini new mini series. So looking forward to that. So that'll be next week's episode. Um, in the meantime, Debs, thank you so much for those little mic drops of those three big sentences. Loving that.

SPEAKER_04:

You're very welcome, Laura. It just came to me as you were sitting there and I wrote them down earlier. I thought, oh, that's what she's talking about. I love it. Oh, beautiful.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, we'll have a fabulous week. Yeah, you two have a fab week.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, my lovely. See you later.

unknown:

Bye.

SPEAKER_01:

Hey Deb. A huge congratulations to you and the Wishfish team on 20 years. What an amazing achievement. Thank you for all the work that you do. I absolutely love Secrets from a Coach. And Deb, thank you for working with me throughout my career so far. Um, your advice, your coaching means everything to me. And without you, um, I don't know where I'd be on my leadership journey. Um, so keep lighting up those leadership sparks and congrats.

SPEAKER_00:

Wishfish 20th anniversary in ideas, in decision making, visionary and clarification. Wishfish has supported us in all of the above over the last 20 years. Whether it's by phone, by email, or in person, supporting us through their facilitators has been instrumental in making both my business and charity the success that it is today. Thank you to the Wishfish team and congratulations.

SPEAKER_02:

20 years to zero. Debbie Green, you absolute genius. I think uh I'd love to have been there in that moment when you decided that you were going to create Wishfish. Um the story behind the name as well is the most beautiful, so I hope that's being told. To share, my experiences in working with Debbie Green and her team at Wishfish has just been game changing. And for me personally and professionally, I was growing up, uh growing up in the wonderful world of the music industry and learning the ropes of LD. Debbie Green, you you were my mentor for many years unofficially, and um you've coached me and guided me in so many ways, and working alongside you and your team, it's always a pleasure. It always is a pleasure. I think all of you have this very grounding um experience when you work with you. Um what you see is what you get. You mean what you you say what you mean, and you mean what you say, and everything that you put your sort of hand to, you always get results. And I think I'm not the only client that would say that. I'd see um real real consultation that takes place and real care and attention to what the deliverable is, and then met with evidenced feedback of where someone's been and going, if it's say coaching or indeed programmatic development, or one-off sessions for teams and so on, the impact that you have it's felt uh industry-wide, and I think there was a moment recently where you invited me to join a leadership discussion as part of um a wish fish curation, and I looked upon that room, and everybody in that space, you could tell, had been touched by the brilliance of working with you. Debbie Green, you are a phenomenal woman, and the way you approach things is always with high levels of empathy, real care for the human soul and spirit, and if more people could be a bit like you in business, I think the world would be a better place.

SPEAKER_03:

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