Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast

260. When the Workplace Gets Messy: Resolving Conflict in the Moment

• Season 21 • Episode 260

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Ever found yourself thinking, “How am I meant to stay calm when everyone else is losing it?” In this fourth episode of our Thriving Workplace Cultures mini-series, we explore how to stay professional and compassionate; even when others aren’t.

From gossip and eye-rolling to stress-fuelled reactions and toxic tension, we look beneath the behaviour to uncover what’s really going on. Fear, insecurity, and burnout often sit at the heart of unhelpful behaviour, and recognising that can help us respond with empathy rather than reactivity.

We unpack practical strategies to handle these situations with confidence and care: how to set clear boundaries, use emotionally intelligent language, and adapt communication for different personalities, whether you’re dealing with fiery, fast-paced colleagues or quiet, detail-focused ones. We also explore the concept of compassionate engagement (caring personally while challenging directly) and why managing yourself first is the most powerful way to change the tone around you.

Listen if you want to:

  • Stay calm, confident and professional under pressure
  • Learn simple phrases to de-escalate tension and protect your boundaries
  • Understand what drives toxic behaviour — and how to respond without getting drawn in

Try this this week:
 When faced with difficult behaviour, take a breath and ask yourself, “What’s this really about — and what energy do I want to bring to it?” Because professionalism isn’t about perfection; it’s about self-management in the moments that matter most.

SPEAKER_02:

Coming up on this week's Secrets from a Coach. Well, we're the first generation that are learning to use this new shiny toy. So, you know, we we haven't we weren't raised by parental role models saying, um, you know, make sure you're uh uh patient with everyone. I mean, I don't even know, I don't think patience was ever instilled in me as a as a child growing up, you know. Dev, I've got a question for you. It links back to that one about self-awareness. Have you ever had anyone knock on your coaching door say, hello, I'd like some coaching because I think I'm a toxic leader.

SPEAKER_00:

Never.

SPEAKER_02:

Secrets from a coach. Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson Stavely of Phenomenal Training. Devs.

SPEAKER_01:

Laura, you alright?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I am uh absolutely delighted by the fact you and I are mirroring a little bit of animal print.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. I just thought I've got to do it. It was one of those where you go, I'm gonna get one of them. Mine's a scarf though, Laura, because it keeps me nice and warm.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my goodness. So I've copied you in the glasses and you're copying me in the hell of a I thought then we could be aligned.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. No, I think you look great because it's like a mirror.

SPEAKER_01:

It's like a mirror. I know, you look lovely too. Oh my goodness. The one type of the red lipstick on that would be that's really scary, though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my goodness. In fact, Debs, it's at that point that the behaviour might be seen as being a little bit less okay, which is delightfully what we're gonna step into into this fourth and a five-part focus, looking at what makes great workplace cultures. In the first one, we looked at behaviours and beliefs and how it's the stories that get spread that can really influence how people feel about the place in which they work or want to work. We then looked at, well, what does that mean in terms of um spotting some of the things that um can make or break a workplace culture? And last week was looking at actually, there's a responsibility we have to ourselves to look after ourselves because a culture by definition will be bigger than the individual. So, how do you keep those pristine boundaries, those oasis moments in the week? And make sure that you don't stuff it with more stress, so actually, as a mirage, that you keep that personal oasis kind of really tight and strong. Now, what happens if the people in which you're working with? So rather than the task load being the amount of stuff to do, what happens if actually part of the culture in which you're working in, for whatever reason, people are starting to act in difficult, inappropriate, or emotional ways that just uh maybe are ruffling some feathers. So, um, what are you picking up? I've got I've got a qu a question, a live piece of work I wanted to pick your brains on, which I thought might be interesting from some live takeaways. But first off, as usual, how how rife is inappropriate workplace behaviour at this point in time? What are you hearing behind the scenes of front of house in terms of uh some of those work cultures?

SPEAKER_01:

I think I'm hearing mixed actually, and you it's not until you go under the surface that you go, oh, this isn't right. And I know you're gonna talk about that in a lot more detail. I won't go there, but that front facing, oh, it's all lovely jubily, and we're all getting along, yet you can pick up there's something not quite aligning here. And whether it's somebody that's not giving enough information or they're holding back, or they just don't um appear to be themselves when they're in a in a meeting or a group discussion. And uh as always, we're always you know, we always observe what's going on and listen for the nuances in people's language and words and tone. So you sense that something isn't aligning. And I'm seeing it uh quite a bit at the moment. I don't know if it's because people are um like in that in-betweeney stage between you know just come off some holiday waiting for the you know the end of the year. I'm not sure, but I it's it's weird because there's uns it feels like there's uncertainty in some of the green groups and teams I've been with. It's so and I don't know where it's coming from until you get under the surface. But it's around, it is around, and I would probably say it's probably more more there than we probably think it is, but because we're not in it, Law, because we always come into an organization or we are invited to coach somebody, we're not always privy to that level of detail.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, as in like the storyline as to what's leads to the need for a full-scale team conflict resolution session.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, because we're only seeing um, you know, we only see a minute part. If you think, you know, the the teams we've gone into this week, for instance, you know, we've we've rocked up, um, but we come away at the end of the day. We're not going back the next day to see them. So we we don't know what goes on when we leave. So, but those that are left will know what goes on.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think also as well, I mean, gosh, you'd have had this overview. I know all of us as a team have, and and we've um, you know, maintained some pretty strong confidentiality factors of people saying, Tell me what my team was like in that training course, or someone from HR or people team saying, Let me know who shone really brightly, and maybe people we need to keep an eye on. And of course, that's icky, because if you've created a psychologically safe space based on confidentiality, you know, late Vegas rules, etc., with that group of 12 people in a room, but actually they know that stuff's gonna kind of leak out, you know, that's a bit of a no-no when you're in our world of sort of facilitation. But I've also learned over the years how someone presents themselves in a training course can actually be quite different from how they are behind the scenes when they're working unwatched. So, again, what we might not get to see when you're brought in, and in any consultancy role, people might talk a good game when they're there saying, I'm going to endeavour to show respect to my colleagues more.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And then inside everyone's going, Yeah, well, I'll believe it when I see it. And then but they it's given in that moment as if it's gonna happen. But in terms of embedding that as new behaviours, so yeah, I think sometimes people might perform in a certain way, yes, but actually behind the scenes it's a bit different.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Oh my god, you're so spot on. You just made me think about when you do know they're just paying you as the external facilitator lip service, and I always call it out. Um, you know, because I just think, okay, that's interesting. So, how are you actually gonna do that? And even though you're saying it's a checkout, I just can't resist by going, I'm not sure if you will. I think you're just paying me lip service, you're wanting to go home. You don't, you're never gonna see me again. So, so let me just really I'm gonna say this sounds really awful. I'm gonna nail you down with what it is you're going to actually do. Um, and because we don't let that go and go, oh, that's lovely, thank you, and move on. It's like, no, are you? Are you really gonna do that? You know, um, what's the impact? All of that stuff. So we get them to question themselves more about their action. Um because yeah, you're right, people will just pay sometimes, not all people pay lip service because they don't want to be in the training room or they don't want to have training, and you know, so they just say what they think they they think we want to hear, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02:

So I think what what we love bringing on these podcast episodes, and in fact, all of our sort of workshops is a real practical edge. So practically, a little question that I like asking is um so it's a safe way to get out the kind of risk factors. So let's say someone is saying, yeah, as a team, we need to really kind of clarify our ways of working. Brilliant, right? I'm gonna do this, this, and that. So it's just before lunch, you've got a pre-lunch sort of checkout. And then if it all just feels a little bit too safe and convenient, and people are starting to kind of look at their phones again, you might say, okay, so I'm just gonna ask a quick mirror moment. What would happen if none of this stuff that you've agreed to would happen? And then you just do a very little quick doom spiral. Yeah. Yes. And then it then becomes apparent of, oh my god, we actually do have to do something. And and that's a way of it's it's positioned as a curiosity question. So what would happen if you didn't do that? So if you're working at the moment we're in an environment where it feels like everyone's talking a good game, but actually nothing is happening, and you're finding that there's increasing levels of irritation, then that kind of checking, that commitment, that contract that is given when you're agreeing something, to then ask the and what would the consequences be if we didn't do that? And then it becomes where someone has to sort of confess actually, that would be bad news. And because it's said out loud, the cognitive dissonance kicks in, which is now I've said it out loud to the world, actually, we need to do that, otherwise we're gonna go under. Once I've said it, I can't unsay it. And your brain then finds it really uncomfortable to not honour what you said you were gonna do because you've said out loud the consequence. Yeah. And that might be a healthier alternative to the story that I heard last week, Dave.

SPEAKER_01:

Come on, share me your story. I love a story, Lore. Go.

SPEAKER_02:

Of someone saying how the cat was well and truly put amongst the pigeons because there was a senior leader who'd become so irritated and so incensed with the fact that they had all these quarterly catch-ups and nothing was happening, that they just lost the plot, basically, and just blurted out to everyone you're all gonna lose your jobs unless we do what we're gonna do, like it's really that serious. Wow. So everyone's sitting there stunned, like you know, on LinkedIn over lunch, thinking, you know, the ship's going down, we've got to find new jobs. So the amount of the ripple effect that had, and it's not that it was the necessarily the right or the wrong thing to do, but there could have been something maybe caught a bit sooner that then meant it didn't then get to someone having this big impulsive act that actually is gonna damage their reputation as a senior leader as potentially seeming like a bit of a risk, and it's damaged the trust between them and all their senior teams in in terms of um how uh you know how how secure they are in how the ship's been steered. Oh my gosh. Who knows whether that little closing question would have made a difference or not? But I think it's looking at these little techniques in that moment, if you're seeing a lack of commitment and then that's bubbling up in irritation and people venting left, right, centre, are there more convenient, confident ways to get that communication contract right in the first place?

SPEAKER_01:

I think there definitely is, and I think if we maybe if we have a look at, you know, some well, I picked out top five reasons why people behave in a toxic way. So um, because sometimes we need to understand what could sit behind that. Um, as that say, even with that CEO just lost the plot, there would be a rational, there would be a reason that sat behind that outburst. So should we explore some of the um the five that I picked? There's loads, but I selected five. Should we do that, Lau.

SPEAKER_02:

So Debs, there are five things then that can cause even the most sane, rational person to just develop these less, uh, these, these less desired behaviours. So yeah, what are these five?

SPEAKER_01:

So the five I picked, I could have picked about 10 or 15 actually, Laura, but the ones I went with, which we do see a lot actually, is um normally people behave in a bit of a toxic way because there's a sense of fear and insecurity. Um, and it could be, um, like you were saying, if things like toxic behaviours like gossip, uh undermining micromanagement, um, can be a bit of a defense mechanism for some people um because they may feel threatened by others' competence and attention or their success. So that's fear and insecurity within themselves can lead to that. Um sometimes it's that overwhelm, that unresolved stress and burnout, and not no one's hearing the fact that there's lots of pressure, they've got a lack of resilience, they're just worn out. Um, and therefore people can lash out or they can blame others or they withdraw. So you might not have communication, you might never see them because they've just gone into their little cave, if you like, because they don't know how to how to deal with it. Um, and then that emotional leakage can happen. Um, because you know I love that phrase, yeah, emotional leakage. Um, about what is you know, rather than their intention to show up, these little things start pulling out. So you your person you were talking about probably just lost the plot. Um, but the third one for me has always been around lack of self-awareness and emotional intelligence. How aware are you as an individual of you know your impact that you can have on others? You know, so that level of um really understanding self, understanding the impact of words, their language, their yeah, everything about them, their presence, you know. So is it that they just have real poor self-awareness and just that lack of EI? Um, and then also the one that I've always think about, which we're seeing maybe a little bit, that those behaviours that are that sort of become embedded in the culture um are not being called out if they're the wrong types of behaviours that we're looking for. So if they're getting those behaviours are going unchecked in the workplace, then people think, well, this is just how we do things around here. So um, and therefore they mirror what's being rewarded, um, which could be rubbish behaviour. So, but it could be a recognition. So, well, if they're gonna throw their toys at parameters because they're suddenly got a pay rise, so am I. You know, so that starts to breed that type of thing. Um, and then always the last one we have to sort of take into consideration is there might be some personal stuff that they're struggling with uh outside of work that they're bringing into the into work and that you know something might be going on at home, it could be anything that might trigger some of those behaviours. Um and it's aimed at their work colleagues because they don't know where else to go with it. So for me, it's it's it's sort of those other they're the five I see more often, I would think, uh over time because we have to just go, oh, I wonder what's going on for them. There's a reason why somebody is behaving in the way they're behaving. Um, and we have to just take a moment, I think, and just go, do I know what's going on for them? No, I don't. You know, do I want to ask them? It might be so toxic, I don't care. Um, but that's not a healthy place either. So it's thinking, you know, what could be going on behind the scenes that we're not privy to and we don't know because I think you know, it's isn't always about people bad people, that's the other thing. It's often about unhelpful behaviours driven by that fear or stress or culture of the organization.

SPEAKER_02:

Dev, I've got a question for you. Go. It links back to that one about self-awareness. Have you ever had anyone knock on your coaching door saying, hello, I'd like some coaching because I think I'm a toxic leader.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm never. Oh my god, I've had them refer to me.

SPEAKER_02:

And and here's the rub, right? Here's the rub. So, so, and I was just thinking, yeah, God, these people that go around thinking, you know, that everyone is is everyone else, not them. And then I just had a little mirror moment. So basically, in in short, I did some hurried parking at the local station car park. Did you? And missed it.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you get fine though, Lore? Because I did.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, God. Well, I'm I'm underestimated the amount of gap between the wall and my um wing mirror. Anyway, my car currently has got the equivalent of a Veruka sock on its wing mirror. Holding it together. I ordered it together, and then turns out I hadn't even seen I'd gouged the door. Anyway, I was having a little chat with my husband, and uh he started to talk in a bit of a tone that I got really huffy with. And I said, But it's not like I do this all the time. This literally is like the first time I pranked the car, and he said, What? Not like the time that you drove into mine when you drove back on the drive. And I went, I don't remember that. And he said, Well, I remember it because I was fixing it all, and I went, No, honestly, I honestly don't remember doing it. You blanked it to me. My memory has completely got rid of that little scrape that he remembers because he was out there in the rain fixing the car over the Saturday. I was conveniently forgotten about it because it wasn't my because someone else dealt with it. Yeah. And then so in my mind, I remember that the that we called it, it was the uh the late, the lake woe-begone effect or something of you know, 85% of drivers think they're above average drivers. The stats doesn't add up. Like 85% of leaders probably think they are above levels of self-awareness than the standard leader. And and even if it's your driving behaviour and just conveniently forgetting, oh yeah, I did do that, didn't I? And if you're spotting other people's behaviours of I can't believe they didn't say thank you, how many times have I forgotten to say thank you? So I think another thing is isn't excusing poor or toxic behaviour. But sometimes I think it can be easy to get to the end of the working day, and all you're doing is listing the things that you've seen around you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, and unless you have that sort of mirror moment, a bit of self-reflection, or you get some feedback that shocks you and takes you back a little bit, um, and I'm gonna ask you in a moment a bit of professional advice because I've got a session that I'm running for. But what in your experience are some little questions that can nudge a level of self-awareness? So are there any like golden reflection questions that let's say you're running a team meeting and you can see six of one, half a dozen of the other, we just need to crack on. What have you seen are some good questions that just shift away from the facade and into the real stuff?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and most of them start with what I'm noticing. So, what I'm for instance, I noticed I noticed you seem frustrated in that conversation or that meeting. What's going on for you today? Silence. If you can say what you observed and say, you know, I could be completely wrong, but you don't seem to be yourself today, you know, what's going on for you? That what's going on for you, silence, don't feel it. Rather than go, I saw you do, um, because that's not going to help. Um, it's it's really helpful to just put it back out there. It's been observed, I've noticed it quietly, not out in the front of the group. Um, and then just ask what's going on for them today. That that for me is the number one question. You know, you don't see yourself today. I noticed you were frustrated. I noticed you lost the plot in that meeting, which is not like you, providing isn't like them. So show that curiosity as to what could be going on for them. Labelling the behaviour as well, I think, can really help. You know, what again, what I noticed, what I observed, I mean, say what it is. It felt like label that that the comment you made felt um a little under undermining rather than you're undermining me. So a slight don't make it about them, if that makes sense. So, you know, that it's it's really hard. You know, um if somebody wants to work and is consistently interrupting you, again, we can sort of say, you know, actually I work best where we can share ideas without interruptions. Can we give that a go? Oh, I like that. Yeah, so it's it's it's enough to I don't know if somebody said to me that, yeah, that feels a bit confrontational. I said, Does it though? You know, so I question I even questioned them back because obviously it hurt a nerve with them. And so I said, Is it what what's that about for you then? Because it will be about the other person as to why they're going, well, I think that's a bit confrontational. You know, okay, so what does that say about them, you know, rather than me? Because to me it was like, why would I not say that? Um, because I've practiced over years and years and years to say that, but for somebody else, you you know in that moment you've triggered something. So I can't help but go into coach mode and try and understand what that thing is for them and then help them work their way through it.

SPEAKER_02:

Dev, there's a phrase you said a while back, and we you know, we we work even in the organizations we work with that are you know ruthlessly commercial and it's all about money in the till, we also work between us as a team with um with organisations where it is their life's purpose to be working in that children's service or that hospital or that care uh provision. So, you know, we we're fortunate enough to have a whole big breadth of organisations and all sorts of different sectors in society. What was that phrase you said to me before about emotional detachment with heart? Or it was about how do I balance that caring, but not so much that it comes and and I don't want to sort of rehash over the boundary stuff we covered last week, but but more if you're faced with some behaviour around you and your colleagues that is really frustrating you, what's that phrase that can help just keep it?

SPEAKER_01:

I can't remember exactly how I put it, but it's the emotional detachment piece. Um, I mean I think it comes also from radical candor. You know, I care personally about you, but I'll challenge directly. Oh, yeah. Compassionate engagement. I think that was the phrase. Emotional detachment. That was it. Thanks, Laura. You ask me about the thing, ah, yeah, yeah. That's the phrase. But it's also that bit I can I'll challenge direct, you know, direct. I care about you personally, but I'll challenge directly. But it's not about you, it's about what's going on. So yeah, it's fascinating when you think, how do you detach yourself though emotionally? Because we run on emotions as humans. Um, and I think that's the other thing is we don't know what we're triggering in other people either. Um and some people won't they won't speak up if somebody's throwing their toys at the pram or because they can't, I don't know if I want to be involved in this. That's you know, that's their shit, not mine, as I always say. Because you know, it but it is fascinating when you watch that uh you know unearth itself in the in a room because we're as humans we're emotional beings.

SPEAKER_02:

So it's not like your lovely robots, Law. I know. So let me just bang on about those in a moment, and then I'm gonna ask you to basically help me with my homework.

SPEAKER_01:

Alright, cool.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's talk about the robots.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So here's another thing that I'm thinking here in 2025, Debs. Go on, Law. So, yes, I hear what you're saying about the five reasons why some of these inappropriate behaviours might be coming out. Um, we're also potentially still fatigued from a pandemic, even though it is five years ago now. There's most organisations we work with, there's still some kind of ripple effect, even if it's working from home and all of those in-office, out office sort of ratios. Could there also be another silent, ever-helpful, and ever-friendly, ever-friendly um ingredient that is also maybe making this um clashes from behaviours kind of on the rise in in workplaces, and that is we've had the silent rise of ever-present, ever-helpful, charmingly brilliant AI. So every time I use my Chat GPT, in fact, what do you call your one?

SPEAKER_01:

Arthur. I call my one. Lovely.

SPEAKER_02:

Um now the thing about Chat GPT is all it wants to do is answer your question and then some, and it will always say, What else can I do? And it will offer you an onward option each time. So it's a bit like um Netflix for your entertainment. Yeah. It is there to be personalised, it's there to pamper to your every whim, it gets to know you, it gets more and more intuitive. But maybe the humans around you less so. So I think I want I wonder whether waiting five minutes for a colleague to reply to a team's message feels longer now. Because I can just go into whatever AI I can use, and in under five seconds, I can get an instant response back. So, does now that four and a half minutes spending waiting for you to reply back, is that even more irritating now? Because I've got this non-human workmate that is just ever ready, always brilliant, and always happy to do more. Whereas we're there running episodes, going about boundaries, do less. In the meantime, the AI is going, help me do more, because you know I'm not gonna be your report.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's such a good link, actually, Laura, isn't it? And you're right, whether it's completely out of consciousness, you're right, that response time, we're not getting we you won't get that from a human always. They won't be able to go, duh, here's a four-page document for you. Because it will take them time to do it. So you're right, there could be some of that out-of-consciousness behaviour coming in, they're going, oh my god, they're so slow. But because they've been doing they've been used to AI responding, their authors or responding super quick. And yes, a good shout law. How do we deal with that though?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we're the first generation that are learning to use this new shiny toy. So um, you know, we we haven't we weren't raised by a parental role model saying, um, you know, make sure you're uh uh patient with everyone. I mean, I don't even know, I don't think patience was ever instilled in me as a child growing up, you know, respect and trust and you know, manners and etiquette.

SPEAKER_01:

But give everyone a chance first.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, as long as it's within five seconds.

SPEAKER_01:

No, yeah, no, it was uh yeah. I think that would be mine actually, was yeah, give everyone a chance first. Let's let give them time to speak and think. That was oh god my god, I sounded like my nan then. Um give everybody a chance to you know talk and think, yeah, okay. And sit there in silence.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Oh, I was definitely trained not to interrupt, to always kind of listen and uh, you know, it's it's yeah, that that's patience, patience and tolerance.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, a little bit of tolerance. I think I was, you know, that was what role model to my mum, just be tolerant of others because they might they might not have what you have. I go, Oh, thanks, mum. Yeah, so yeah, interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

It is, but linking back to the AI bit, I guess, you know, who knows? I I don't know if there's been any kind of um, you know, any kind of research on it or not, but is our patience and tolerance for human response times does it is it more irritating now because we're so used to these lightning quick AI response times? And does that then mean that we are a bit snappier, a bit gnarlier with each other? Because um all I can see is it's taken ages for you to reply to my message because I've become so used to sort of instant. What's the solution? Not quite sure. I guess it's just being aware that you'll have some non-human colleagues as you develop in your career and human colleagues. And maybe part of our responsibility as the first generation to work alongside AI tools is to acknowledge that humans are different and you'll have some AI colleagues and some human colleagues, and there'll be, you know, win with there'll be the the pros and cons of both. I mean, no one's gonna go out, no one's gonna invite an AI to their wedding, are they? Whereas load loads of times you go to a wedding, there's colleagues there. This might be this might be a bit rude, Debs, for the podcast, but I'll say it in coded words. You know, and I used to be the head of training for Anne Summers. Did you? Yeah. We used to say, you know, the products, people would talk about how they had very empowering relationships with the products, but you wouldn't take it home to meet your parents. So there was definitely room for human relationships, it's not just the tech.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my god, I love that. Yeah, that that's interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. You know, so technology's always brought a spark to our lives, but it's just which way? Absolutely, it's it's working out the moments.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yeah. And what works for you might not work for someone else.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely, Debs. It's just the difference in the profit margin. That's all I'm saying. Um, so back to the humans.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah, back to the humans, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, here is my challenge. So please, can I um present you my challenge, Debs? And I'd love to get your thinking on this. Of course. Okay, so this pro this episode has been all about um how um what does that mean for me to behave when everyone is kind of behaving maybe inappropriately around me. So, as part of a good, healthy organisation culture, what role do we all play? Because if you're stuck in traffic, you're part of traffic. You know, it's one of my favourite phrases. So I've got this challenge coming up in about six weeks' time. I've got a day with an SLT. They're all hugely passionate with the role that they do because it does have real purpose in society. And so, because of that, people are taking their jobs home and they are getting really kind of wound up and upset with some of the stuff. And some of the behaviours that apparently have been happening is gossiping, team the the SLT splintering into two, um, they're having meetings where everyone is nodding along, and then they're all chatting about it, outside corridors, whispered sort of after, and it's all just turned a bit kind of icky. So, you know, following good practice in order to increase the uh chance of the day going well because time is so tight, want it to go well. I've done an anonymous survey. And isn't it interesting? Everyone wants the same thing. They're all saying, I want us to be able to resolve some of these conflicts, I think we need to have like a code of practice in terms of how we address stuff. So, what have been some of the things that you have seen work when you've got people that you are working with who maybe are just built of different stuff? So, if you've got you're quite an introverted person, you're working alongside an extroverted person, someone that might just want some bullet points and some simple instructions, and other than someone else that wants lots of story and sort of chit chat. So, what will be some things that you have seen work well almost in that mediation conflict resolution space? Because I've just got a feeling those are going to be really useful skills for us over the next five to ten years in this ever evolving world of work, because um it's that humour. Bit is that as you said, those emotions, and sometimes they're not always pleasant and comfortable.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no God. Well, um I know you're gonna nail it anyway, Law, but I think when we're looking at it from the different um preferences or approaches that people will take, it's one, yeah, an awareness of how that person is being, um, and it's how we would then you know need to respond. So, you know, if we just link it back into the insights profiles, because that's what we do a lot of work around, isn't it, to start with is the insight energy colours. Um, and it's actually just thinking about how we can have some stop, have some phrases that enable that conversation to go better. And it could be, it might not be your preference, but you may find by adapting your style to map, you know, to match that can actually help in the long run. So you're meeting them where they're at and then bringing them to a different energy around it. So, for example, you could say um something like, okay, if you're having a fiery red conversation, you could say something along, I can't commit to that right now, but here's what I can do for you. So you're not saying no, but you're not saying yes, but you're actually a negotiation. Um, I respect your view on that, but and to deliver the results, I need something from you. Um, let's get clear on the outcome we're aiming for. Can we focus on the solution? That is, I just went, oh my god. Yeah. So we're not, you know, we're not going, you need to be quite blah, blah, blah. We're actually focusing on the solution. So what are we actually here for? The end game. So I think that's quite nice. Can we focus on that? Now most people go, yeah, of course. And then there might be a bit spiky, but um, you're still moving it forward. So that was um there. Obviously, the energy that comes in, and sometimes, as we know, us sunshine yellows can be so enthusiastic about stuff. Um, and then we might be turning somebody else off in that moment who isn't, as you said, quite as extroverted or energetic or happy or whatever about a new idea. Um, and you could respond by saying to them, you know, I really value your energy. Can we channel it into ideas that move us forward?

SPEAKER_02:

I think you've used that with me, Debs. That's not an unfamiliar phrase to my ears.

SPEAKER_00:

You recognise that one that is literally like do you know?

SPEAKER_02:

I had a little moment today, I was telling someone about the flight that I did, and I said, Yeah, the um cabin crew had said, actually, sorry, madam, we've run out of whispering angel, Rose. And I was like, Oh, and then my friend said to me today, I think that's probably that their way of managing your intake. I was like, Oh, I hadn't even viewed it.

SPEAKER_01:

See, they're super smart at dealing with that. Super smart, yeah. Because they're um they're if you like that approach of being um, I suppose, optimistic, um, relational, keeps the engagement and keeps the engagement going. So you're not, as you said, they're not telling you stop drinking.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, they were like, I would have drank into wine. Yeah, I almost felt quite proud. Oh, right, okay, fine. Yeah. So that's so that's why if you've got bags of energy and you can see everyone starting to roll their eyes going, love the energy. Yeah, love the energy. Channel how how let how how would that channel through to a practical next step?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and can we channel it into ideas that move us forward? And the I that is we're moving forward, and then that's new and exciting for a you know, a sunshine yellow person anyway. So they go, Oh yes, of course, and then beyond it. I'll have a gin. Yeah, it's like I'll have something else. What else you got? What else you got?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm very amenable.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. And if we take it to our lovely earth green, supportive, values-driven people that you know want to do the always do the right thing, always, always to their detriment sometimes. Um, and if somebody's really banging off at them, you know, a really great little phrase that yeah, I've actually got here, but um, I want to work well with you. So I want to work well with you, and for that to happen, I need this from you. So again, that specific behavior, what you want to see different. Um, I hear your frustration in what's what's happening or what's coming across. So let's revisit this when we're both karma. So, and again, it is the way you deliver it has to be right. So, again, we've got to have that level of self-awareness that we spoke about earlier in emotional intelligence to recognize how we say things, you know, it's not job, not just what we say, it's how we say it, right? So our tone has to be not patronizing, not aggressive, um, not confrontational, not over the top, not apologetic. I mean, it's a fine line, but you know, forgetting it. But if you've positioned it in a way, you go, oh, okay, yeah, I hear you. Yeah, let's come back in five minutes or whatever, um, and going, you know, going forward from there. So there's a bit of empathy that comes out of that, steady, anchored in the values, because that's what's important from them. And, you know, lastly, our lovely, you know, core blue, analytical, detail, focused people who on the whole are on that introversion preference um when we look at them from an insights perspective, um, and somebody's going at them, they can actually say, Wow, that's landed really strongly. Can you clarify what you mean so I can respond accurately?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, no.

SPEAKER_01:

And that is, you know, wow. Or I have heard, you know, one of them I wrote down here is let's park this until we have the facts. We need to make a sound decision. Now, you need to have a relationship there, I think, before somebody goes, Well, we haven't got all the facts. We just mean to make a decision because that could escalate. So I think you need to know the people that you're working with. Um, and also the loved one, which I think I've heard you say in a couple of workshops before, something along the lines of, I'm just gonna take a moment before I um to think before I answer that. And because this deserves careful consideration.

SPEAKER_02:

Um she says fumbling for a phone, asking Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_01:

Must think for myself.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, must think for myself.

SPEAKER_01:

Must think for myself, absolutely. But I think that actually, yeah, that's there's no reason why I'd go, actually, yeah, actually, I'm gonna take a moment to think about that um before I answer.

SPEAKER_02:

Pause. Yeah, I use that a lot, actually.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you do, and I've heard you say that, and you watch, and people just go, okay. So it's that ability to recognise the adaptability of your preference, their preference. How do you phrase some of these sentences? And we always say, you know, that the script is as good as the person that's writing it, right? So, you know, you make it your own, but you get the gist of how you can position it if somebody is really, you know, behaving in an inappropriate way, um, where the behaviours are draining your energy, or you feel triggered by somebody else's toxic behaviour, um, or you just want to put your boundary, like we talked about last week, want to put your boundary in back in place in a respectful way, um, so that you're not constantly bashing heads with people.

SPEAKER_02:

Devs, I've absolutely loved this conversation. So we've been looking at um what makes a healthy, thriving workplace culture. There's um a lot of newness that's in our current sort of generation. So we've got not only multi-generations working in work and what that means then to work well together, to handle conflicts, to challenge each other, you know, in a way that fills aligned with values. We've got hybrid working, we've got ever-increasing insidious AI that's there, that is at our beck and call, and then potentially that makes the humans the slow ones that are just irritating us. So rather than my teammates being in the way, I guess what we've looked at are some tools that just remain so we are the way to making great work. Whether that's some practical phrases, whether it's uh a general mirror moment of actually, this isn't the first time I've pranged the car. When I'll stop and think about it, it seems to be happening a few times. Um, maybe it's not just the other drivers, maybe I'm part of that as well. Um, and uh, yeah, all in the pursuit of working well with each other. So I'm gonna do my share of the secret, and then it'd be great to end on your call call to action. So I think this would be a good listen. If you know anyone for whom has been talking about how things are getting a bit difficult in their workplace at the moment, or they're supporting someone that is, and hopefully, what we've looked at are some practical approaches to stepping forward so it doesn't feel like it's stuck. Because if you're still saying the same things this time next year, then that's where things can get a bit down and a bit sort of, you know, you get it knocks away at your personal energy because it just feels like you're stuck, and we always have a choice. And so, what what we've looked at, hopefully, some practical approaches. So, um, Debs, what would your call to action be? What would be something that you think would be useful for us to work on this week?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think um going back to what we said at the beginning that you know, toxic toxicity even isn't about bad people, it's about their unhelpful behaviours driven by fear, stress, or culture. So we mentioned that right at the front. But mine would be to take a breath, um, manage it, you know, manage yourself first. So take a breath. Um, and as I always said, you know, respect your own boundaries, look after your well-being, but actually, you know, don't get caught up in their shit because it's theirs, not yours.

SPEAKER_02:

Lovely, Debs. With that in mind, I have absolutely loved this conversation. I think this has been a really, yeah, really interesting um five-part focus. And we've got in our fifth one, we're going to be looking at what role do we play in creating a great place to work? So build on more of the self-awareness and some things that we can then do. And I think it might be really interesting to start to look at habits and patterns. Oh, nice. I think that always generates quite a bit of interest, actually. Which is if, as I sort of said in the share the secret, if you think this feels a bit familiar, I've been here before, then sometimes just having a bit of that language and framework to help recognise and break a pattern can be really empowering. Yeah. So, um, Debs, have a wonderful week. You too. Just you remember, just the tiniest little bit of technology can create mind-blowing results. I can bear no mind lore. I hope you enjoy your Arthur Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. Oh, yeah. I'm a good one.

SPEAKER_00:

Bye.

SPEAKER_02:

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