Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast

271. Defining the Give and the Get - Creating the Life/Work Balance You Want

• Season 22 • Episode 271

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What does balance really look like when life feels busy, full and always 'on'? In this third episode of our Fresh Starts mini-series, we reframe work–life balance as life–work balance: because life comes first. Using the reality of our finite 168 hours a week, we explore how time and energy are limited resources, and why constant stretch is often a sign that the give has outweighed the get for too long.

We share practical coaching tools including the Jar of Life and the Wheel of Life to help you spot where imbalance is creeping in and what may need to shift. We explore identifying your non-negotiable 'rocks' (e.g. health, family and wellbeing) and how over-giving through habit, expectation or guilt can quietly disconnect us from ourselves. One powerful question sits at the heart of the episode: “When do you feel most like yourself?”

We also look at how this shows up in real working lives, especially in roles that demand constant emotional responsibility. Through small resets, clear boundaries and guilt-free protection of what matters, this episode offers a grounding reminder: self-care isn’t indulgent - it’s essential. If your energy mattered as much as your output, what might change?

An ideal listen if you are looking for practical ways to achieve the life–work balance for you, or if you want to run a session/share at a meeting tips for energy, boundaries, giving and receiving, self-leadership and making fresh starts

SPEAKER_02:

Coming up on this week's Secrets from a Coach. The power I took from that is, for example, if you lose your job or if you have to move house and it's out of your control, your life still has meaning. Like rather than your life's meaning being put around things that potentially are out of your control.

SPEAKER_01:

Actually, my family and my health are really important. Then asking yourself, well, what am I doing? You know, what am I, what am I giving, what am I getting in order to be able to live that life that I want it to be? Um, and that's a real hard rock that is not gonna go away because that's what I value.

SPEAKER_02:

Secrets from a coach. Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson Stavely of Phenomenal Training. Deb. Laura, are you alright? Yeah, yeah, I'm doing well. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, yeah, I'm not too bad actually. I'm certainly practicing pushing it to the limits about what we're going to talk about today, so I'm looking forward to that. But Laura, I've noticed your brooch. So for the listeners, Laura's got like a power broach on. But tell us more, Laura.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so there I was, arriving in another town for a friend's 50th, because that's just where I'm at in life. Everyone's turning 50. Turns out you just party harder when you're in your 50s, because I think, you know, you've you've glimpsed the fact that there is a bit less in front than there is behind. But anyway, so uh that's what I'm seeing at the moment, or these kind of really hardcore 50th birthdays. Anyway, there I rock up. We've all known each other for years and years and years, and then uh my friend goes, So what did you decide to go for? 1980s or 1920s? And I said, What? He said it's fancy dress. And I went, What? It's fancy dress, and she said, Yeah, it's rivals versus Peaky Blinders. I mean, how good is that?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's a good, good. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So there I was in my kind of my uniform black jumpsuit and heels, and basically I had 20 minutes to get it all eightified because my my friend's got quite an eclectic wardrobe, and then she's given me this brooch. Oh my gosh. This is like an original 1980s. So I think I'm gonna be channeling that 1980s vibe where they partied hard and they play hard, played hard, but no one could reach you out of hours. Yes, that's true. And could it be that there is a benefit from almost looking back at our sort of predecessors in different decades in the world of work where you know you worked hard, but you also played hard, and there was that maybe a bit more of a sense of balance. And this is our third in our four-part focus looking at fresh start. Never is there a better time than at the start of a new year or a new project or new phase in life to think, okay, well, how am I going to make this work for me? What's the give and the get that feels like a right balance for myself? So, how much of a key topic is this at the moment, Devs, from your coaching perspective, in room and with one-to-ones and groups, how much of this idea of balance is a hot topic at the moment?

SPEAKER_01:

I think it is a hot top hot topic, Law. And um, I was coaching somebody earlier this morning who was trying to work out what their balance was. And as you know, I'm I'm on a mission to change that work-life balance to life work balance, but actually not even a balance because it's never going to be a balance again. As you just alluded to in the 80s, yeah, maybe no one could get you out of hours. So you probably did have an opportunity to create more of a balance in that. But nowadays, you're 24-7, people can get a hold of you whenever. So, as you know, when you talk about how do we create a life work harmony, and that give and get is something that we need to consider. So I think it's something you know, it's a hot topic. We need to think about it, and it's how do we start to address it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, interesting. So, I mean, whenever I hear people say, I want to get a better work-life balance, I always say, Oh, can I stop you there? My work wife Debs is on a mission to reshape it to life work balance. Because as you say, it's it's life comes before work. And actually, what I've sort of observed people saying over the years is it can really build a sense of resentment. You tend to feel ground down if it feels like you're just kind of living to work. Is that the right expression? Yeah, living to work.

SPEAKER_01:

Living to work, yeah, rather than working to live. Is that oh, I don't, whatever. We somebody will correct us, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02:

I always get that mixed up. Is it buy high, sell, low, or is it by low, sell high? Yeah, it looks like I'm gonna be working uh because uh yes, I don't think I'm a natural investor. So we thought, wouldn't it be interesting to take us through in our kind of classic way of something for us, something for colleagues, whether you are formally managing a team or you're just managing life, and um we'll kind of take this in an upbeat, practical way, where we first looked at in our first part focus around setting intentions, not resolutions. So getting vision ready with us. Last week we looked at from chaos to calm, creating space for what matters, and we've had some really good feedback actually. I think it's just caught people at a time where it's quite useful to have a handy refresher. So we're gonna take you through some golden oldies, we are some fresh perspectives to defining the life-work balance, the give and the get that works for you. So, Debs, I'm not sure if this is from back in the 80s, but do you remember that classic time management concept that was around the jar of life philosophy?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my goodness, yeah, I do, vaguely. I know we've spoken about it before, but yeah, tell us more, Law.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I mean, the carousel does come round, doesn't it? Well, it does.

SPEAKER_01:

But at least we've got the carousel that we can whiz around and pull out when we need to.

SPEAKER_02:

So the jar of life philosophy is along the premise of time is finite, there's only so many minutes in a week, and there's only so many hours in a week. In fact, Deb, so I'm just gonna test you. I did a Google search beforehand. Oh my god, figure out there in a week. So in a full week.

SPEAKER_00:

You're asking me to do math. 24 times seven. What's that? It's a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I did Google it, so don't worry because I I literally can't think for myself now unless I've got a machine to help me.

SPEAKER_01:

You've got a machine to do it. Go on, what is 24 times seven?

SPEAKER_02:

160 hours per week. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I should know that because that's how we were calculating people's pay back in the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

When uh Debs was running her um slave labour factory. Um, no, sorry, no, always been an ethical, ethical, uh, always. Yeah. So, and then on average, um, an adult sleeps 50 to 63 hours per week. So, what you're looking at is about 105 hours to play with if you sit within that kind of average bit. So, what the jar of life um philosophy looks at, and it's um the idea was that um there was a professor standing at the front of their class saying, This jar represents your life. So, at the moment it's empty, and this is kind of all the time that you've got in your life, but time is finite, and if you fill up your jar with all of the trivial things in life, so he reflected that as sand, then there's no room to put in the pebbles, so the things that you want to do, and the rocks, which are the pillars of your life. So, what he was um kind of talking about was get your rocks in first. So, what are those big pillars, the big things that give you meaning in life? Be awesome, Debs, to get your kind of typical questions that you ask to help people have a think about what those big rocks are. Your pebbles, which are a little bit smaller than the rocks, you can then fit in once you put the rocks in place. So typically they're things like the the rocks are typically things like family, health, happiness. Yeah, and then the pebbles, which are your big things in life. So job, house. And I just really remember the the the power I took from that is for example, if you lose your job, or if you have to move house and it's out of your control, your life still has meaning. Like rather than your life's meaning being put around things that potentially are out of your control. And when my life went a bit skewy about 14, uh about 13 years ago, my goodness, that helped just hold on to the fact that you're still intact, just because those big things have have shifted, doesn't mean your life isn't um, you know, gonna gonna go places. And then the sand is for all the trivial stuff, so watching TV, doing all those little mini things, those mini sort of day-by-day things, paying the bills and all those types of things, and then there's always room for water. So the water is the stuff that kind of keeps you fluid and moving, and I guess that's leisure and hobbies and things like that. Yeah, but the the idea behind it is there's a limited amount of time, life is short, make it count, and rather than filling up your time with the stuff that doesn't sustain you or you don't really enjoy, or it feels like it's all just hard work and no balance for you, then um flip it and get your big things in first.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think that's spot on law, and sometimes we have to identify well, what are those big things? You mentioned, you know, three of them family, health, and you you know, looking after yourself as well is one of them. But actually, there could be some more there. So, what are those big rocks? What are the important things in your life? You know, that's what you've got to identify. So, what is important for you? And um, it could be any, you know, around any of those things. Most people, in my experience, health and family do come up every single time. I don't think I've never had uh yeah, I've never had somebody that hasn't said that. So it's important to identify, you know, what those things are because they are the things that you're gonna hold on to. Um and as you say, when this when you sort of put water on it and the fluidity of it to keep us moving, to be able to know that actually my family and my health are really important, then asking yourself, well, what am I doing? You know, what am I what am I giving, what am I getting in order to be able to live that life that I want it to be? Um and that's a real hard rock that is not gonna go away because that's what I value. Um and it's really interesting when you do um an exercise with people around their life will, because we also can use the life will around that, because that can identify what your rocks could be. So it's then deciding, as you said, what you want to do with it, how you're gonna approach it. But it's normally the questions are what brings you joy, what makes you happy, when, when and how are you super proud? And then, you know, what difference do you want your life to make because of it? So they're really big questions, but they're also questions that enable us to sort of just have that conversation about it so we can identify what our rocks are.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, Debs, I love it. You know, in a moment, I'd love you to refresh us on that wheel of life because I know again, it's one of those classics that you can um literally wheel out at any time when you're sort of thinking that it needs a bit of a reset. And I had a conversation only today with a client that I've had the joy of working with on and off over many years, and she's kind of changed a few roles during that time. But she knows something's off, she knows that this is an opportunity maybe to do what she's always wanted to do, and and she's increasingly getting less joy from the role that she's in, whether that's her time of life, whether it's what's going on around in her family, but it takes courage then to to reset. But it's that give and the get, and I think that that metaphor of rocks when when something big isn't right, which is actually I'm not able to spend time in the part of my life that I think I should be spending my time in right now, yeah. Then uh it enables you to just sort of view it for what it is. Time is finite, your energy is finite. So, what's how are you gonna make that formula work for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think that's spot on, and actually that's the first thing that we would always look at as well is the awareness of noticing what is the give in the start in the first place. So, thinking about um some question, where in my life or work? Am I giving more than I realise? And is that okay with me or not? And what am I giving because I choose to, and what am I giving out of habit or expectation? So that ability to noticing or notice what you are giving um up, letting go or whatever, like there's something off. It's really important to just stop and ask yourself that. You know, where in my life or my work am I giving more than I realise? And then what am I giving because I choose to, rather than a habit or an expectation? And and that's really interesting because when we work with people around that, you can see the penny drop sometimes. And like you, you know, you were saying your client could be that they're realizing that work isn't working for them, and they're actually focusing more on their life. So, what does that life harmony look like for them? So that exploration would then be let's explore that more. This is where you could bring in the wheel of life, as you said, where you sort of break it down into the different segments of your life. So it's health, welfare, family, friends, relationships, career, work, hobbies, fun. I mean, literally, you can draw a wheel and put whatever you want in the spokes. There are some, you know, finances that can also go in there if that's something. But I think it's important for you to just take a bit of a stop check and go, right, where am I now? Am I happy? Does it bring me joy? Not really. Where do I want to be? In which area? And then you can focus in on it. Because if you're giving up or giving away and you're you're not happy, there's something has to give. So what is the give?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh get this from me. This is what's got to give. Because I can't do it all and actually, no. There's there's there's only a set amount of you know, focus that you can kind of bring.

SPEAKER_01:

And If I just following with the get bit, naming it. So we said awareness is the first one, but then clarity around it. So if you're gonna think, okay, so naming the get three things, or what do I want? Um, and so we say, what do I need more of right now to feel well, steady, or supported? So that's naming what you're getting or wanting to get. When do I feel most energized, calm, or like myself? That's something we hear all the time. I just don't feel like myself. And you go, Well, tell me more. What is like in a vertical comma's myself mean to you? Um, because people just know, like you're saying, there's something off, and we're not aligned with our values, our purpose, who we are, what's important in our lives right now. And it will feel weird. People do feel not themselves. So um, yeah, it's worth asking yourself some of those questions, the clarity about naming the get, awareness of what you're giving, but then naming the get. You know, what do I need more of right now to feel supported, loved, happy, joyful, proud, whatever that might be for you?

SPEAKER_02:

Debs, I love that question. So I mean I can just think of lots of times where in personal as well as professional life, people saying, you know, I'm just not feeling myself. Um, so so what were those questions? It was what does feeling like yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, what does it feel like? What do you mean, feeling like myself? What is myself? And people are lost as well in that, because they they have lost themselves, if you like, because they've given so much of themselves, they forget who they are. So coming back to their heart centre, themselves, you know, whatever they feel was their comfortable spot. But that, what do I need more of right now? And it is the now bit to feel well, steady, or supported. And the other question you can ask is when do I feel most energized, calm, or like myself? And what am I getting in those moments? Oh, I love that, Debs.

SPEAKER_02:

So the Jar of Life philosophy is a reminder of time is finite, get the get the big ticket items prioritized in, first of all, the rocks in life. So there's some great questions to establish that. And then the wheel of life, which is another classic then. Yeah, if it feels like life is stuck or the wheels are falling off, it's just such a good metaphor. How to kind of get the okay, well, what where do I start? What's from a priority point of view?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I'd tell you what would be fab is to now have a think about well, what does that then mean in daily practice? So, devs, I was fortunate enough to be running a session with an amazing group of deputy head teachers. So there's about 70 of them in the room. I took them through the the classic parent, adult, child model and transactional analysis, which uh our team is so passionate about. Very much so. Providing a language to be able to work your way through and navigate sort of complexities.

SPEAKER_01:

There must be something in the air, Laura, because I use that today with my client. How bizarre is that? How bizarre. And of course, sorry, I interrupted you there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and of course, where it works really well is industries where it could lend itself to having very parent-child interactions. So, you know, if you're running, if you're working in an operation and people have to ask to go to the toilet, then how do you then have an adult-adult conversation a little bit later? Because already there's that kind of culture that's set where one person has to give permission to someone else to go to the loo, you know. In a in a world of um education, if your day job is telling seven-year-olds to sit down and be quiet, when you're then in the staff room and you're talking to a colleague who is a peer, how do you then ensure that that same kind of power dynamic doesn't sort of leak out? Anyway, what what um prompted a really interesting conversation? A couple of them came up to me after, because I I um I've referenced it a number of times. But my colleague Lindsay, when she told when she shared this kind of little gem at a workshop I was co-delivering with her, it really stuck with me. The more you're able to give your free child chance to play in your leisure time, the easier it is to stay in mature and adult in your professional time. And it was just a little throwaway comment that I gave again, but I and the number of people that came up and said afterwards, oh my goodness, I never thought it about in that way. Yeah. Because in our role, we have to be the grown-up. Yes. You know, every parent, every chase, every governor, everyone requires us to be the grown-up. And that can be exhausting. So they sort of between them all, I think all our 70s thought, right, let's go and get some hobbies booked in. Oh my god, I love that. I need to have some playtime in my leisure in order to be able to keep giving the grown-up and the maturity and the adult state. So I thought that was really interesting to take forward.

SPEAKER_01:

Because that's what happens at school, though. They're giving the kids playtime to let loose and be free. So it's like they're not practicing what they preach, are they, really? But that's the classic, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

So but also, of course, in break time you might be having 10 safeguarding conversations.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. So you're never off.

SPEAKER_02:

No, but it's like out of hours, you know, when you can have that leisure time, is if that is actually a big rock, which is let me just make sure that I'm all right in all of this. But you almost need that permission to go, oh, actually, it helps me be better in my role if I have those appropriate boundaries that means that I can have a bit of me in a week.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, and that's really important because that helps you with choice, which is the next part when we look at this. You know, how do I create? I give myself choice to be able to create the harmony that I'm looking for, um, or the balance, depending on that life work balance. So is again asking yourself the questions, what's one small thing I could give give less of this week without guilt? Because guilt is a wasted emotion. So asking yourself that. So you have to be really like your critical friend, really, um, where you go, yeah, actually, you know what, I'm not doing that. And so have that honest conversation with yourself. And then what's the small one small get that I could protect or ask for just for me? And this really hard because we find lots of people don't put themselves first. And yeah, I think it's so important to just say, Yeah, what's one small get? You know, can I just go and lay and do nothing? Or is that gonna help me? Yes, it is. Okay, I'm gonna make that happen. So it's the conscious effort of making a choice come alive, if you like, um, and not just think about it, but actually do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And as we were covering on that session with um the um uh ops set uh center people last week who do a lot of crisis incident um recovery and big, big jobs that they've then got. Yeah. The power of a micro reset. So it doesn't have to be lying down in a dark room for half a day. Could be just looking out the window and breathing for 30 seconds, just to give a bit of a reset. So, Debs, I've loved this third in our four-part focus look at the first time.

SPEAKER_01:

It's been really cool, this give and get piece, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Give and the get piece, I think that's a brilliant way to look at it. And it also means that you we could, you know, permission to evolve and adjust it as your life stages shift and change. Um, and uh, you know, if life for whatever reason feels a bit emptier, maybe you need to fill it a bit more. If life feels too full, maybe there's an opportunity, as you said, to sort of reset the give and the get in the pursuit of a great life work balance that works for you. Because one size fits one.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, it does. I think that links into my call to action to really think about how do I integrate that in my language and my everyday living. And I think um, two questions I'm gonna ask people to action for themselves. If my energy mattered as much as my output, um, what might change? And the second question I want people to consider is what would enough in averted commas look like for me today, not forever, just today.

SPEAKER_02:

Love it, Debs. Well, my share of the secret is so the second wardrobe embellishment I did, not only the 80s um brooch that my friend has now given me. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Hello, here's my cat. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I also shoved two pairs of socks under each under each bra strap to make shoulder pads.

SPEAKER_00:

I wonder what you were gonna where you're going with that then. Oh my god, that's that's so clever.

SPEAKER_02:

And I tell you what, the posture and the confidence having shoulder pads gave me. That's what they said, power dressing. That's where that came from, wasn't it? So I think if you are got a colleague or a friend at the moment that's just feeling a little bit already, like they want to get into their pajamas and it's only, you know, Monday, um, then get them to listen to this, to have a bit of a 1980s, get your brooch on, get your shoulder pads, whatever the equivalent is, if those aren't the types of things that you would normally wear, but that equivalent of you get one shot at this, the jar of life philosophy. Yeah. Take your big things in, first of all. Because anyone that genuinely cares about you wants you to spend time on the things that you care about.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And um, Debs, talking of which, I'm really looking forward to our episode next week where we're gonna have a guest.

SPEAKER_01:

We are having a guest, so we're gonna get that in and sort that out. So, yes, exactly. So, watch this space.

SPEAKER_02:

Get those shoulder pads on, Debs.

SPEAKER_01:

I definitely will. I'm gonna try that. That's such a good classic. That's a good move. Oh, it's been so good. Oh get your life work harmony sorted, Laura, and enjoy.

SPEAKER_02:

Just after these a thousand emails have been dealt with. No, yeah, that's they can wait, they can wait, they're gonna be there tomorrow. That's it. Shoulder pad forward. Go. Have a good one, lovely.

SPEAKER_03:

Love you. Bye.

SPEAKER_02:

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