286. The Coping Reframe: Trust, Grief and Healthy Coping

Content note: This episode includes references to suicide bereavement and grief.

In the second episode of our Healthy Coping Mechanisms mini-series, we are joined by rail incident controller Tom Curcher for a powerful and honest conversation about coping under pressure, building trust, and recovering after difficult experiences.

Tom shares a fascinating behind-the-scenes insight into working in a high-pressure rail incident response environment, where communication, calm thinking and teamwork really matter. He explains why trust is the foundation of effective response, how he prepares for worst-case scenarios without becoming overwhelmed, and why sharing the load is essential when pressure is high.

This episode also explores a deeply personal resilience reframe. Tom talks openly about losing his dad to suicide, living with grief, and how that experience has shaped his outlook on life, work and supporting others. Rather than seeing resilience as simply 'bouncing back', Tom offers a grounded reminder that we can live with difficult experiences, learn from them, and still choose connection, gratitude and growth.

Tom shares the power of genuinely asking “how are you?”, listening without trying to fix, knowing what is and isn’t yours to carry, and creating team environments where people feel safe to speak honestly. His call to action is simple but brave: ask for feedback, drop the mask, and consider what you could do differently to help yourself and others cope better.

Tom volunteers with SOBS – Survivors of Bereavement by Suicide. You can connect with Tom on Instagram: Tom Curcher

Transcript

Healthy Coping Series And Content Warning

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Devs. No, are you alright? Yeah, I'm really good, thank you. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Yeah, I'm alright actually. I've been um thoroughly enjoying our conversations we've been having, not just with our guests, but also on this topic that we started. It's been amazing to listen to what people are doing to help them cope. And I think it's just been a mat yeah, I've just been such a great topic. I've loved it, L.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Yeah, so have I. And just to refresh, this is going to be the second in our four-part focus looking at healthy coping mechanisms. Um, I just want to give everyone a heads up. This episode does um include references to suicide bereavement and grief. So if this isn't for you right now, we'll see you on the next one. And this guest, it's gonna be incredible to listen to um Tom in conversation with you, Debs, because Tom was one of those gems that shone when we were running the Healthy Coping Mechanisms workshop at the start of the year, which is where we got people together in a rail operations centre environment, really busy, really pressured. And it was just incredible, wasn't it? The conversation that Tom started with us afterwards. And at that point, Debs, we just knew we got to get Tom in conversation, talking with you, particularly around coping using healthy mechanisms, particularly when you are living with grief after maybe the worst has happened, and what does that then mean to be able to process and then live life afterwards?

Meet An Incident Controller

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, sure. It was incredible. Should we take a listen, Law? So, welcome everyone. We are absolutely delighted to be able to speak into real people, as we said last time, um, who have got a real passion around mind health, mental health, well-being, resilience, and what that means to be able to cope healthily in the world of work. Um, and as Laura and I said, we were able to spend some amazing time with some incredible people who live and breathe this stuff every single day, inside and outside of work. And as you can see, I'm delighted to have a guest with me today. Yay! So, Tom, welcome to our podcast. Tell our listeners a little bit about who are you and what do you do?

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Well, thanks for thanks for having me with Debs. Um, my name's Tom. I am 29. Um, I work for Network Rail and I joined when I was 18 as an uh as an apprentice, sort of working in the electrical distribution side of uh of the railway. Um and about six, seven months ago, um I joined a control room in Network Rail at Three Bridges in Crawley, and uh my job title is I'm an incident controller. So, what that is is I manage all sorts of incidents, accidents, and emergencies that sort of happen across the railway network. Um, predominantly for me, where I'm based across sort of the southeast of England and into London and through the core of London. Um, so anything sort of infrastructure-wise, or incidents that happen on the railway, people going on the line, um, accidents that happen on the line, is kind of our job as incident controllers to kind of manage the response to that. Um, obviously try and keep a train service running and get all sort of personnel to where they need to be to manage that incident as as sort of smoothly and calmly as possible.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, and I must admit, I mean, I have been on the trains, as I mentioned to you when we met you in our training session, and the way it's handled is just incredible. And I think we did not appreciate by any stretch of the imagination, I'm sure loads of people are listening in, unless you're in your world, you have no idea about one, the amount of people that are involved, what happens, how quickly you respond to different things, but also then how do you deal with the aftermath of that? So when you're thinking about um when we were talking about healthy coping mechanisms in particular, um, I suppose what was it and why does this topic mean so much to you? Because dealing with incidents, you see it all the time. You must be at the right at the front end of it, and it must be pressure on a whole nother level that a lot of us won't even go. So, how how important is this topic for you?

SPEAKER_04 4:14

I think extremely important. I think, especially with my with my new role, but even in my old role, you know, dealing with how trains are getting power is basically the basis of it before was it was important to me because, you know, it is the bit like you say that people don't see. Um people might know that, you know, trains are powered by electricity, but they don't realise obviously the infrastructure behind that and who might be responding to keep that going when there is faults and failures. So I I always took that part of my job very seriously and the impact that it sort of has on passengers and the general public, you know, using a service. But now I'm opened up to an entirely new world. And like you say, about people not really having an idea about um, you know, through no thought of their own, what is going on in the background. It was the same for me coming from a maintenance background to then what we call operations within network rail. I didn't really have an idea about the operation side of things. Okay. Um, but I've always been a person who um I kind of I love incidents and love sort of going to things that then go wrong. Um so the environment up there, I've kind of been able to really just kind of fall into it quite naturally in the I love that environment and I I like to think I'm quite a good communicator, and that sort of um environment you you really are kind of tested. Um, completely new for me. You've got people from the GTR side, so like the train operating company side, the network rail side. There's a room full of people that all have kind of different goals and objectives. You know, we've ultimately our main goal for all of us is to run a train network, but you know, we all have different jobs in that room, and so it can be quite high, high pressure, high tension. So healthy coping mechanisms in that environment is extremely important. You know, you're working in a room full of anywhere between sort of uh 50 and 80 people at a time, okay, where you're all trying to come together to for, like I say, that ultimate goal of keeping people moving across the network. But we're all dealing with little parts of it, and so our goals are all slightly different. We all come from different backgrounds, our experience is different. Um, obviously, maybe how long we've been in the role, but also what we were doing before. Yeah, um, and of course, uh working with people is a funny thing, like you know, everyone has different uh communication styles, yeah, um, different listening abilities, there how they handle pressure um is is entirely different. So uh it's it's kind of important to know how to handle this um environment well because you can either sink or swim in it. Um so yeah.

Communication That Builds Trust

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Because it's tough, isn't it? It's really tough, and I think when you see the rock, because obviously we were invited down to have a look at the hub, and you're right, there's loads of people doing loads of different things. So, how I suppose that you mentioned about communication. What's the most important thing do you think uh when it comes to you being ready to communicate and for you to communicate well to everyone that you need to in that moment? What's the most important thing for you in that space?

SPEAKER_04 7:16

Uh I think for me is um I always think about your communication being effective. You know, we can all just communicate and say what needs to be said, but how you deliver it, um, you know, who you kind of direct it towards and how responsive and receptive they are normally comes from you and your delivery. Um and it's also built on trust, isn't it? You know, whether or not you obviously me being new to the environment and when you're new in your training, as I was when I sort of adjoined back in September, is people don't know you, people don't know how you're going to communicate, how you work. So my big thing was learning from the people that I needed to communicate with. I kind of started with what is it you need from me in my role? How best do I need to communicate for you to get the best out of yourself and for me to deliver the information that you need, you know, promptly on time? Um, what are the things you need me to say? So I was very much like an observer when I started, and obviously you try and see what works well and what doesn't, but I've always been very big on um asking the questions to say, right, what can I do differently? What do you need from me? Because um, you know, how else do I know how to do the best in my role and deliver what I need to, unless people tell me what it is they need, and everyone works differently as well. So I try and pick apart from different people that I talk to, not just talk to one person, but talk to multiple people and say, what does it mean, say for uh what does say a good incident controller look like to you in your job role?

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

Um so that for me is the biggest thing is kind of my my delivery and the trust that I build and that I build with people, to be honest.

Handling Adrenaline With Priorities

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Yeah. Because that's the bit that's gonna get people to, I should say, trust you, and trust is the foundation of everything, right? And I suppose when you're when you're thinking about, you never know when an incident's gonna happen either. So how do you, I suppose, how do you get ready or how how do you prep yourself if something like I don't know, it's not the bat phone, I'm not saying that, but you know, that that call comes in. How do you, and you're the first responder to it, for instance, how do you get ready and deal with all of that adrenaline that's running around your body in that moment because you know you've got to react somehow to whatever might be on the end of that phone, right? So, how do you prep for that something like that?

SPEAKER_04 9:34

I think for me, um it's very important to in my environment, there's three of us in our roles that cover the southeast.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

So um, for me, first and foremost, it's about sharing the load because sometimes, like you say, you don't never know when that call is going to happen. And sometimes you're dealing with um you might already have a failed train on the network that you're trying to work around. You might have um an incident at a level crossing and some barriers are down, or they're up, and you're trying to, you know, get trains safely across that crossing. And then all of a sudden you might have a call with a concern of concern for welfare, or sadly a fatality on the network. And so that might all be happening on your little patch of the railway. And so you've got to learn very quickly how to um, you know, both delegate but also prioritise your information in this environment because there is only us three, and sometimes we might all be dealing with something all at the same time. And so you've got to go, right, what is the priority? And so I kind of work in having things in the back of my mind of of when I'm working in that moment, thinking sometimes about the worst case scenario, sometimes that's kind of it's kind of how I'm wired, is that I think, right, what what would I do if this happens now? Um, what's the worst case? Because if I'm prepped for that, yeah, I can kind of manage everything below that. And sometimes obviously that can waste in you know, when you start thinking like that, it can waste some energy because you you think you're you're thinking through things that might not happen, but I've always found it best for myself that I know what happens then, what what is going to happen and kind of how to react to that situation when it does happen.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Um I think personally I've kind of always uh I've I've been always been quite quite a patient person, but also always kind of working on that patience because your your patience is tested in different environments, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

But that kind of helps in that situation because I can kind of deal with a high level of stress, but how I kind of handle that is by I think you have to just take each thing as as it comes in front of you and deal with the matter at hand and not get overloaded with you know the what ifs. Because in our our environment in our environment and in our job, you can only go on what you know, and there can be a lot of pressure from different parties in the room as to well, what if this happens, what if that happens. Um and as much as like I say, I might be preparing for that, I have to go right, let's deal with what's in front of us and tackle one thing at a time.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Um, but again, it kind of comes back to the teamwork, doesn't it? You know, if if you know that you can um you you can share the load with other people and know that other you can trust other people in their role to do the best in their job, um, then you're you're gonna be able to tack it, tackle a task more effectively when it is one of these bigger incident incidents.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah, I know. And and I think that's uh I love the fact that you're saying, you know, you've got to deal with what's in the now because a lot of that is um I love the mental prep, absolutely, because then we're sort of ready as much as we can be. But until you know what it is, you don't know what you need, right? So yeah, but I suppose you mentioned that you sort of you always have this level of ability to communicate, to have patience. Where's that come from for you? What's your experience that has enabled you to be level-headed in that moment or calm in that moment, or really aware of how you're communicating your message to others so that people then do the right thing when you need them to at the right time? Where's that come from, do you think, with you? Where have you learned that?

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Um, I think when I was growing up, my um my granddad was an extremely patient person, and he, my nan was not a very patient person. So I saw both sides of it.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

You saw both sides.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Yeah, and and I kind of always took on board my um my granddad's kind of attitude to things and saw how the the calmness of him and the patience of him and what it brought to the situation and how positive it was having people around him that were maybe uh people in my family a little bit more filled with anxiety and worry. Um and even for myself, I grew up quite an overthinker. Um, I used to worry about a hell of a lot that you know hadn't already happened, might happen. Um and so I wasted a lot of time and emotion on that. Um and I kind of got to the age of like 20, and I thought, do I really want to? I saw, I think, firsthand how it was affecting my relationships.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:02

Um and I thought, is this how kind of I want to be?

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

Um so I kind of one thing I always point back to is uh a conversation with sort of my my nan talking about um some of her family and saying that when we spoke about maybe the negative qualities of other people in the family, it was, well, that's just how they are. And so I always pin back to that of, and I remember asking, well, what do you mean that's how that's just how they are? Like, that's then it for them. You know what I mean? Like as in they've got this personality that they're they're born with or they grow up with, they get to an adult, and then that's it. Is it for forever? That's just you know, they never kind of work. So I I always kind of it's the one thing that I always come back to in myself of like, well, we don't have to be how we are, we can work on these things about ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

True.

SPEAKER_04 14:53

Um, and if we want to, but it all comes with from within, doesn't it? Do we want to change these things about ourselves or do we actually just want to kind of um, you know, yes, accept who we are, but even accept the negative traits and say, oh, well, okay, I've had feedback about that, but actually I'm gonna do nothing about it.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Yeah.

Grief After Suicide And Perspective

SPEAKER_04 15:11

Um, so I've always been very big on like my own self-development and looking for feedback from other people. Um I think my my kind of attitude towards uh pressure and potentially my resilience um is kind of comes a lot from I lost uh I I lost my dad five years ago to suicide. Sorry. And so um thank you. And um, you know, that obviously turned turned my life upside down, um and mentally, you know, was a hell of a lot to work through. Um, and still is, of course. It's it's it's it's a massive thing for me, you know, every day of my life. But um when something like that happens to you and you're filled with so much grief and you know questions and hurt and anger, um, and of course, just ultimate sadness that your life has changed. I was only 24 when that happened, I'm 29 now, and yeah, um, you know, you I got to a point where I just thought, is do I want to be a person who is just sort of shaped and I'm all I'm seen as is the person who's lost his dad to suicide.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:21

Um and it's kind of given me, along with him sort of losing a lot of people in my family at a young age, it's given me this attitude towards life of I keep in the forefront of my mind how uh precious like life is and the day-to-day and how short life can be. Um losing so many people at a young age can kind of do that to you. And as much as some people might find it morbid, I kind of use it to its advantage of thinking you never know what days you last. So actually, let's be let's be positive, let's look at what we do have and not what we don't have. Yeah, um, and again, I suppose maybe that's it's uh a coping mechanism as well in my in my in my grief and in myself, you know, to find the positives of things.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

But um, you know, it's the day to day. We people always say, you know, you've got a hundred problems until like you you have health as a problem, and then that's your only problem.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Oh, yes, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

And I try to bear that in mind, even in the day-to-day, while you have it, you know, people say that, but people don't reflect on it, do they, until unfortunately, you know, they become ill or they sadly die or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

So I've always kind of thought to myself, well, let's actually have the mindset of I'll be grateful that I've got a roof over my head, you know, um, that I'm alive and well and I've got two feet to walk around on and I can hold things, you know, um, I can do things, I can go out, enjoy the sun. Uh it might sound silly to some people, but yeah, I think if we were all maybe focused on what we do have in life and those little things, we would be happy people. Obviously, I've seen the the worst of what there is to sort of come out of life as well. But with that, I suppose what I'm trying to get at with then bringing it back to work is how when you have that attitude, the big problems at work and in a work environment, when people haven't maybe been had this, had those things happen to them in their life, the little things are massive things to them. So even these big incidents at work, I I kind of take as they are problems that can be solved and we can work around. It isn't the end of the world for me. I I I can only draw on my own experience. The worst thing in my life that has happened to me has happened to me. Yeah, everything else is solvable and we can work around and do something about. So as much as these situations do, of course, still create pressure um within me, and uh, and um, you know, you have to work to to time constraints and get a job done ultimately. I see it as that's how I kind of manage that level of stress of like, well, we can only do what we can do, yeah. Um, and let's pull together, get through this problem, and not let it just completely overwhelm us and stop us from the task at hand.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, okay. Wow. I mean, first of all, thank you. I really appreciate you sharing that because that that's a one tough situation to find yourself in. And the fact that your mindset towards it is is just that gratitude that actually taking ones at a time, we don't know when, let's make the most of it, let's look at what we have got, not what we haven't got. I mean, that is, you know, for a 24-year-old to have that happen to now, how has that, I suppose, how has that changed you in a way that enabled you to be there for others? As you said, you're you're really you deal with what's in front of you, you make it the best. But then I suppose, yeah, one, how do you deal with it in that moment and help others get through it? As you said, because not everybody would have experienced what you have, and therefore they might just like freeze or they just might run away from whatever's going on, but obviously you're bringing it back to we have got an incident to deal with, we've got something that we can a problem we can solve one way or another. So, how how yeah, how does that help you now in your role?

Creating Safety To Open Up

SPEAKER_04 20:04

I think um it's helped me in my role now, in that I think through sharing my own kind of belief and my own outlook um and keeping communication at the the forefront of what I do, yeah, I think kind of um really helps me to I like to think, you know, be be successful in the workplace and and be a be a uh you know a good team member and and a good teammate to my colleagues. Yeah. Um through that experience, you know, how do you get through that grief on your own where you don't? You need to you need to communicate with people, you need to share it, you need to take that that load off yourself. I mean, I went and uh sort of joined a um a bereavement group for people bereaved by suicide. It's called survivors of uh bereavement by suicide or it's sobs for short. And so I've been going to that since um when would it have been? January 22, um after I lost my dad in June 21. And now I'm actually a volunteer there myself, and I think it's for me, it's um, you know, even with that, it's it's important to kind of share your own experience in how do I say this? You know, I think when I joined SOBS, the biggest thing for me that kept me going was seeing people on the other side, people that had been there for years and and have kept them going, and that was my you know, my own sort of um motivation and positive outlook to say, look, they've got through this, I can get through this. They've they've you know, they're they're still here, they're working through their grief. Um and so that kind of changed my you know my outlook on a lot, and then I wanted to kind of give back, and even now bringing it back to I suppose the workplace is not letting it define me in me being angry or down, but actually um showing other. People, my attitude and my outlook on things might actually have a turn on other people, perhaps, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah, you know the most impact you're having, right?

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Yeah, yeah, you don't. And until you kind of share your own your own story, it can be quite vulnerable, but um people can't appreciate why or how you're working, how you're working, unless you actually kind of draw on that experience and tell them, you know, a little bit about yourself. It's quite hard, isn't it? It it's really difficult to be vulnerable and and tell people what what's hurt you, what you've been through, yeah. Um and and for fear of you don't know how that person's gonna react, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah, exactly. And I suppose because you have worked through that, we and you're right, we were still working through it, but the fact that you are able to, I suppose, showcase people that it's okay to talk about how you're feeling and that you're sad, upset, grieving, whatever. How do you encourage those maybe that are coming into your volume where you volunteer now and they haven't had that space ever before to talk about what's gone on for them? How do you encourage them to feel safe, I suppose, to communicate with you, trust you in that moment? Because I know you know you've been through it, you've lived that experience, but how do you create that space for people to feel okay to start opening up and be a bit more vulnerable? What is it that you do?

SPEAKER_04 23:24

I think you have to create a changed attitude in your workplace, don't you? You know, you have to be the kind of it can sound a bit cliche, but that change that you want to see. Um, you know, how how are people going to feel safe to open up to you unless you create that environment for them? So for me, I've always been big on asking people how they're doing, you know, um, asking people how they are, um actually genuinely listening and and taking on board what they're saying.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

Yeah, not how how often do and we're we're all guilty of it at some point or another, we're waiting to talk rather than actually listening and taking on board what that person is saying. That's something I'm very conscious about. Yeah. Um I think like unless you actually care to that level, but you it's really difficult because in my environment, you you can think you can have the attitude of you're just a small cog in a major system, and of course I am. I'm one person with over 40,000 people working the network route.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Of course, I know without passengers and everything else.

SPEAKER_04 24:29

And that's without passengers, of course, yeah. That's that's just that's just us of a company.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

Um, and you can think, what difference am I gonna make, right? Or you can kind of have the attitude of, well, why not me? Why can't it be me that changes the attitude of that team? And and again, it kind of comes back to that positive mindset of saying, well, if it's not me, then who is it? Because I've worked as part of, I suppose, lots of teams over the last 10 years that maybe haven't communicated effectively and had people that were good listeners or set good examples. And so I always thought, well, why can't it be me? Almost like that mentorship within the team.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:06

Um, someone that is actually going to listen and care. And I suppose that might might come from a place of I didn't always have that, both in my own situation from losing my dad, and have people that were kind of there and and listen when I needed to be. Okay. Uh when when I needed them to be, sorry. So I kind of think I think of myself and how much I was maybe sh maybe struggling and not communicating, and how I how badly I just wanted people to ask and listen. And so I think, well, I don't want anyone else to go through that like I have gone through.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:38

Um, and if I can use that experience myself to help other people, it's one less one less person suffering.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Absolutely. Um, tough, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 25:48

Sorry.

Empathy, Sympathy, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 25:48

I think it's really hard sometimes, isn't it, for people to open up. But as you're saying, if you're creating that space because you do genuinely care, um, I suppose the question that popped into my head then was for you then, what's the difference between I suppose that empathy, understanding it, walked in their shoes, blah blah as opposed to sympathy for things that have gone wrong. How do you differentiate between that? Because loads of people always speak to me about their mind health and mental health, and they go, Yeah, but that person, and they it's more sympathy than empathy or understanding, or so how how do you cope with that?

SPEAKER_04 26:25

Um, I've kind of, and I know I'm talking a lot about grief here. Yeah. Um so apologies for that. But you know, when when it comes to say grief, for instance, yeah, um, I've always had the attitude of in in this country in particular, I have the attitude of like grief is a people see grief as like a problem that needs to be solved and not lived with.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

So with that, if you change that attitude, rather than you know, maybe trying to compare yourself and bring yourself into the situation because you think maybe that's what the relatability that someone needs, it's more about actually being the open ear and saying, even if like you like you're touching on, in terms of have I not been through that, I can't empathise with it because I've not been through it, but I can sympathise with it. Yeah, is that's where the listening part really comes in.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

But I think people, generally speaking, people think that they can't care or be there for someone unless they've been through that through it themselves and don't always know the right things to say. Yeah. Um you'd have to have the attribute of just asking questions, is my belief, you know, and and actually just asking, giving someone the space to actually talk about what they need to rather than thinking, oh, what they need to hear is that um I've been through this as well. Yeah. And let me talk about my experience because that will encourage them to open up.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

When actually exactly, in my experience, it's been the last thing.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

It puts me off. I think you're making it about you, it's now not about me. I'll now listen. And therefore, I won't talk about what I'm going through.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Exactly. And they think they've got you. It's it, yeah, you're right. I mean, in the world that I work in, you hear that a lot where you know you just haven't listened to that. You haven't given them the space to just talk. As you said, whether you've lived the experience or not, it's that ability to then know, well, what do I do with that information? So, you know, because it it's it's heavy stuff sometimes. If you're I'm sure you must have heard stories that have just blown your mind. How do you deal with the um not the aftermath? That's the wrong word. How do you deal with it yourself so that you're not taking it all on? Because that's one of the biggest things, isn't it? Is to it's not yours to carry, is what I always say. But how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_04 28:40

Yeah, it's quite a difficult one, I suppose. Yeah, um, it is very difficult. How do I deal with that? I mean you have to have this the separation of what you can and can't control and know what is within your limits, and have you done all that you can do within your capability. So, you know, whether it be coming from um work and thinking, have I done everything I can to manage that situation to the best of my ability and come away from it with a clear mind, to go in and obviously volunteer in at my bereavement group and saying, you know that they're going through what they're going through, but of course we we all, you know, um have our own life, our own grief, our own thoughts and feelings and stresses of a day-to-day life, you know, finances, work, like I say, grief, whatever it may be, yeah, and you have to manage that you can't. There's only so much you can do for everyone without it then affecting you. Um if you if you take it away yourself, and I have done that, and I've come away from groups and and you know, working.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

It's a mind sometimes, doesn't it? There's some every now and again there's certain people, isn't it, that just you can't shake that. And yeah, that tells you something in itself, though, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_04 30:00

It does, it does. And I think it's important to act on that. And for the people that you do and the situations that do really need your attention, you need to, you know, give them that and reach out or or ask the questions. But there's certain things where you go, right, what is it I can personally do about this situation? You can't control other people's feelings and emotions. No, um, that's one thing I suppose like I'd done a lot growing up was trying to think I can I can impact that person's their their thoughts, their emotions, and if I work hard enough and ask hard enough and I can do this and do that, I will help them. And I suppose I've seen firsthand myself how actually all that worry and all that attempt and all that trying, you you are, you know, for want uh of a better phrase, you know, like you can lead the horse to water, but you can't force them to drink it, can you? You know, you can do all you can do, yeah. But the the the overthinking, I suppose, and the worry that that caused me, you you have to draw that line and go, right, it's now not on me, it's on that person or it's on that situation. In the same way, like me or my shifts, I work 12-hour shifts and you work the 12 hours, and someone comes in and hands over from you, and you have to say, right, there's I find it difficult because I like seeing through things through till the end. Um and I'm like, right, I've got to walk away here and say I've done everything I can do up until now. Now it's up to you, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

And that's trusting that person to do it their way because they've got the experience to do it. I love that because that I suppose comes back to what you were saying. Um, you know, is that the life I've been dealt with? Like you're saying, listen to your nan, your granddad being a massive influence by the sounds of it as well, on you know, what to consider, what to think about. But I think it's really, I just love the fact that you're saying, you know, it is there is a line, you can only take people so far. And as you said earlier, the choice is then up to them. Like you said, you had the choice way back when to either go one way or the other, and you for whatever reason chose to go, no, actually, life's more than this, and I'm grateful for what I have got. Um, and I just think that is so refreshing to hear. And I I suppose what I suppose what if you were to look back now, based on what you've experienced, learned, developed, you're still evolving, you're still learning, we are still learning. What would you say to your younger self based on what you know now?

SPEAKER_04 32:22

Um I think I would probably talk about sort of tell myself that you know you can't what would I say?

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah, it's hard, isn't it? What would you do? Because you probably think about it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:44

I would want to tell myself, you know, sort be a bit prouder of yourself in what you're doing and and actually think you are doing more than what you think you are. You're not maybe getting enough gratitude for all you are doing.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

And you can't, you can't, you can't control other people's emotions, know when to draw the boundary a bit better, because in my life, you know, it's it's probably done me a disservice for myself, my my own kind of mental health for for kind of trying to fix everyone else's problems and trying to do too much and taking on too much pressure and mental load myself and kind of going, you know, not ever everything is your problem to solve.

Walking, Unplugging, And Letting Thoughts Land

SPEAKER_01 33:28

That's very true. Yeah. It's hard though, isn't it, when you you sort of get used to doing it. So what do you do to release that? I mean, you know, I know when we did the exercise in the room, we were sort of offloading the pressure. Um, but I suppose what do you do outside of work and the the you know volunteering? What else do you do to make sure that you come back to you and yourself, you're grounded again and you're ready to go? What do you do?

SPEAKER_04 33:54

I I like to get out and sort of um take myself outside and just go for a walk. Very simple. But um, I I always say to my wife about like getting outside of the four walls, the four constraints at home. You know, we're all guilty of coming home and you can switch on the telly and sit there, and then you might not say two words to each other, and you go to bed, and that's that. Yeah. Our experience is, you know, you go out and all of a sudden your mind is free, you're thinking, and that the distractions are lifted for one. But um the subconscious mental confines of the four walls that you sit in that that you kind of sit in between um go away, and all of a sudden your mind wanders and you think and talk about different things that you wouldn't, and whether that's you know, sharing the load and talking about your day and getting that off your chest or how you're thinking or feeling. But even for me, even to kind of take the headphones out and actually just go out for a walk and have a think, I think it's important to ground yourself and actually and actually think about how we're feeling and let our minds wander. We have so many distractions now, don't we? From work, life, phones in front of us, TV in front of us. And how often now do we actually take 30 minutes an hour to actually just let our minds wander and explore and think about how we feel feeling and and and how um how things are making us feel war?

Feedback As A Coping Mechanism

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yeah. Oh my god, it's just been fascinating. I love that. So um I we could chat for ages, we'd probably have to get you back again to talk about more about it. But if you were to give our listeners and our people that are watching us on YouTube a call to action based around healthy coping mechanisms, what would your consideration for them be? What would be your call to action?

SPEAKER_04 35:40

My call to action would be um look look at the negatives and the positives of how you are dealing with situations. Ask for ask ask for feedback on what you're doing and how you're working. It's a very difficult thing for people to do and sometimes and want to take on the negatives. But I think if you actually want to cope better at work, it will probably um help you to understand maybe what you're not doing so so well because you you might be looking for you might be looking for more feedback on maybe you're not getting the praise you deserve at work, or that you're not working successfully, or that communication skills aren't what they should be, um, or that even from your team, maybe they're not reacting to you how you need them to, and you're not working as well as you can, they're not working as well with you. So kind of dropping your own ego and that mask to say, right, can you tell me what am I doing wrong here? What could I do better in my role? What could I do for you to help you? Yeah, um that that in itself can create some um a healthy work, a healthier working environment and bridge that trust and communication between two people that uh or you you and your team, where then actually you'll be able to naturally develop healthier coping mechanisms because all of a sudden the things that are maybe stresses at work or problems at work now won't be through that that kind of lifting of that fear and um asking the difficult questions.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yeah. Um I think you're right. I think and everything you've said, actually, listening, communicating, asking, being curious, um, because we're you know, we're not the done deal, are we? And we all need to learn. But having that um, I suppose having the open-minded mindedness, open, open mind to even accept that, that you know, you're willing to hear it and then change and do something about it. But again, like you said, it's a choice, right? As you said, we can we can give somebody that feedback, but if they they don't want to, then it's really tough, isn't it? But yeah, and that's the bit you go, well, I can do no more. I've said my piece and go from there. But um, from how do people reach out to you? Um, because you've obviously got a such a wealth of experience, and I really I know we've only sort of spent I don't know 25-30 minutes chatting to you about a huge topic. Um we definitely want you to come back because I mean we could go into so many rabbit holes, but I think we'd still be here like four hours later.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Yeah, yeah. And I have to apologise because I feel like maybe, you know, through my own, maybe grief and my own experience, that's kind of led into healthy coping mechanisms. But I'm kind of a little bit afraid that I haven't answered the questions maybe as directly as what I should have done.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

You no, you definitely don't ever have Latvi. You've definitely done that because I think what it's done, it's brought the the realness to it and the way um what I've loved is the way your brain has been processing and then linking it back all the time. So don't you don't apologize for not answering. You have definitely answered all the questions that um and sort of shared your experience. So thank you. Appreciate that enormously from you. But how do people find you if they want to find out a bit more, not just about you, how you got to where you've got to in work, but you know, you got involved outside of work and volunteering and the importance of um getting out of the four wars and talking and and communicating well. How might people reach out to you?

SPEAKER_04 39:01

Um people can reach out to me on uh on on Instagram, or I'd be more than happy to put my my sort of um my email or something in your um about the podcast or whatever. Okay. Um yeah, my Instagram is Tom Kircher, C-U-R-C-H-G-R. Um, people can feel free to reach out to me on there, ask me any questions or any advice on anything. Um, and same with email, you know, if people wanted to to reach out to that um and and have a conversation, you know, I'm very open, you know, and and happy to sort of help or talk to anyone that that would appreciate it. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

I appreciate that. And we'll put the link to sobs as well, because I think the more people that have an awareness of there there is help out there, and there are places you can go that feel safe enough to talk about whatever it is you've experienced, right? Um make sure there's a link that goes out to them as well. Because I just want to say a huge thank you for your time and you know, for sharing, you know, stuff that's been really tough. And I really, really appreciate that because you don't always get people sharing that stuff. And for us, we need to hear it more, I think, to know that it's okay. And as you said, we we do come out the other end, and as we always talk about resilience, you know, we just come out maybe stronger, wiser, and more able. I don't think we're fixed, but it's that, you know, which is how we always describe resilience. And um, just to hear you, it's been a real pleasure to talk to you. And I really appreciate you giving us your time today, Tom.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

No, thanks very much for for having me and um giving me the opportunity to share and ask answer some questions. Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Oh my god, I appreciate that. We'll get you back to talk about the importance of feedback, I think. That's the best one.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I would love to anytime.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Thank you so much, Tom. Well, thank you. Have a really good evening. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

And you, you take care. Thank you. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

So, Laura, what did you think? Oh, I mean, Tom, he's he's a wise soul, isn't he? Only 29 years old.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Yeah, round. Incredible, with such wisdom and calmness, and just that whole mindset. It was incredible to, yeah, I felt real privileged having a conversation with him around it. And I know you had a conversation with him in the room on the day as well, but yeah, amazing, incredible.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yeah, and then especially when you hear people rolling their eyes and going, Oh, young people these days, you know, they don't have the resilience or the skills, and you think, well, listen to Tom because that's what wise words that he shared with us. And I think I know you already shared the um call to action in terms of community, so maybe refresh us on that. So if there were a call to action, devs, that you would suggest for anyone for whom this episode has resonated with.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

I think for me it was all about surrounding yourself with the people that you know are going to support you and the community feel, and knowing that you're not alone in this, I think it it's worth its weight in gold. And whether that is family or friends or people around you or outside organisations that are there to support you, I would definitely build that community around you. That would be my call to action.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Yeah, excellent. And my share of the secret would be if you know someone with whom is dealing with either some grief that they're they're they're handling or some other big setback. And I think listening to Tom, it's having that courage and that confidence to have conversations. And also, I think listening to Tom say how he found it reassuring going to the SOBS community and seeing there are other people who'd experienced similar things to him and who were on the other side of it and how comforting he found that. So um, I just massive thanks to Tom for sharing that with us and taking the time to have that amazing conversation with you. And um, yeah, thank you, Tom, and whoever gets to have you leading and working alongside in a day-to-day environment, lucky them, because I bet they've learned so much from you.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Definitely. I'm with you on that one, Law. And um, yeah, it was brilliant. So I'm looking forward to our next conversation that we're gonna have as well. So I hope you're um thinking about your healthy coping mechanisms for this week, Law. And um I look forward to catching up with you next week.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Yeah, right. See you at the next one, Dave. Love you. We hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secrets from a coach.com or follow us on Insta or Facebook. If you're a Spotify listener, give us a rating as it's easier for people to find us. And if you want to know more, visit our website www.secrets from a coach.com and sign up for our newsletter. Here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work.