289. Team Resilience and Staying Well Under Continuing Pressure

In our final of our 5-part focus on Healthy Coping Mechanisms, David Stokes, Network Delivery Manager for Network Rail’s control centre, shares how teams cope in a high-pressure operational environment where they never know what will happen next.

A major theme is how much attitudes have shifted around mental health and coping. David reflects that people are now more comfortable saying when they are not okay, rather than relying on the old “stiff upper lip” approach. He explains that understanding the physical mechanics of stress can remove shame: it helps people realise their reactions are not weakness or poor performance, but the body responding under pressure.

David describes the control centre as being like a boxing ring: you know you may get punched, but you do not know when, how hard, or how often. Preparation, training and muscle memory are therefore vital, especially in the first few minutes of a serious incident. But he also stresses that recovery matters just as much as readiness.

His own coping mechanisms include preparing well before a shift, prioritising sleep, exercising, eating well, switching off properly, connecting with others, and spending time outside. He is clear that people cannot keep “revving” indefinitely; they need time to reset, or they return to work already depleted.

As a leader, David explains that when someone has been through a difficult incident, he takes them away from the intense control room environment, gives them time with no sense of clock-watching, and often walks with them outside. Movement, space and reassurance help people talk more freely and reduce their stress levels.

He is passionate about this work because he has seen people struggle when their baseline stress stays too high, affecting both work and home life. His belief is simple and strong: 'it is okay not to be okay, but it is not okay to battle on alone'. 

For managers, David's message is to step in early, not brush difficult situations under the carpet, and give people the most valuable thing they have: time. Some of the most meaningful conversations, he says, start with someone saying, “I’m fine, mate, I’ve got nothing to talk about.”


His final call to action is beautifully simple: have respect - for yourself and for the people you impact. Listen to yourself, and listen to others.

Transcript

Catching Up And Why Resilience Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Devs. Loi, how you been since last time? I'm doing well. I've met new people. I've had some fabulous conversations with you, devs. I've always felt better when I've had a chance to reconnect with you.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Yeah. I feel like I haven't really seen you. It's like ships that pass in the night. Um yeah, you miss that connection, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 0:25

You do. I'm trying to get more time releasing my probation officer, but they're not letting you off. It's all these inappropriate comments I keep making, Debs.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Oh lord, what are we gonna do with you?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Uh don't you worry, I'll still be drawing pictures on the flip chart walls to cheer myself up.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Oh my god, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

And see if anybody can get because Debs, here's the thing, right? When you have lots of pressure and you have bits and bobs that are on your radar, the team and the camaraderie and the communication, my gosh, it can help lighten the load.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Yeah, it really can. And, you know, as we've been talking to loads of people through this series, we have our final guest actually that's coming along to chat with us about um what it really means to maintain that level of mental health and resilience when working in those high stress environments. Um, and I think it was around self-awareness, he talks a lot about, which is brilliant, and then the recovery strategies.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

So, shall we have a listen then? Fantastic. I cannot wait to hear from Dave Stokesman. From the moment we met this guy, he just brought such a fresh energy and oh, it was brilliant working with him. So uh yeah, can't wait to hear his thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Okay, let's have a listen.

Meet Dave From Network Rail Control

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Hello everyone. As you as you know, we have been using our series this month to talk about healthy coping mechanisms, and we've had a number of guests come along and chat to us about how they manage their healthy coping mechanisms in an environment which is highly stressful, super pressured, and they never know what they're gonna get day to day. So we have been um delighted to have Dave Stokes with us, and he's gonna talk us through what he does, um, how long he's been doing it for, and then also why is this topic really important to him? Because he's been fundamental along with some other people in shaping the material that we ran for the teams across his organization, and he's carrying that on. Um, so yeah, I'm delighted that he's joining us today. So, Dave, welcome. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Give us our listeners a little bit about who are you, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

So I work for Network Rail. I work in the control center uh for the Sussex Route. Um, and I'm a network delivery manager, which essentially means I oversee uh the shift on duty. Okay. So uh, and we deal with everything that's uh for operations that are outside of the normal running of a train service. So whether somebody's dropped something or uh something you know more serious has happened. So uh that's me in the control center. Um I started on the railway quite a while ago as a train driver.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

And then uh before moving into control just yeah, eight or nine years ago.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Wow, okay. So during that time, you must have seen a huge difference between um how we approach talking about our mind health, mental health, healthy coping mechanisms compared to back then, why are you back then? It sounds like ancient. What have been the biggest

Talking About Not Being Okay

SPEAKER_02 3:40

differences that you've noticed?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

I think um one of the big things really is we have got more comfortable with saying when we're not okay. Nice. Um which is which is good because normally we just hide that and uh stiff up the lip, and you know, it's not something we, you know, we don't I think previously we just didn't listen to ourselves, our bodies and and our needs, uh, whereas now that's a bit more normalized. I also think the focus has gone from not just physical health, yeah, um, but mental health. That's almost like we need to get our mental health in focus, and then physical health comes afterwards. Uh so I think the whole uh view on what health is um as a bigger picture is that's what's changed. And I think um the way people carry themselves, conversations, yes, how we speak, um, how we conduct ourselves, yeah, has definitely been a massive change.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Yeah, oh wow, and and I think you're right, and we certainly saw that in the rooms. You've been involved in the workshops that we were doing um as well. And I thought it was really great that the people in the room weren't sure what they were coming into. Um, it was very different for them because we were talking about not the process,

Stress Mechanics Without Self Blame

SPEAKER_02 5:00

not the here's a framework. It was more about how our body reacts when we're in a stressful situation. Um, yeah, and your observations in the room um would be good to see because we had some really good people that opened up and shared, um, which we weren't really surprised at. But what was it that enabled that to happen for them? One, they're obviously getting more used to talking about it, but what else helped in that situation?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

I think that we um we we tend to judge ourselves quite harshly.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

We do.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

And uh we you know we would reflect that if we're not able to do something that that's on us. Um, like we've chosen that. Well, actual fact, what excited me about what you delivered was well, actually, let's look at the mechanics of this. What's the structure? How do you respond? Independently of whether you're in tune with yourself, and independently of whether you understand you're at a high stress level, actually, your body does react in a certain way. Um, and I think when we we took away kind of that personalized part of it to reintroduce it later, um, so that people could see, oh, this isn't a reflection on me, you know, this isn't me with either poor performance or look, I can't cope. Yeah, it's this is what I'm going through. And what was really good, I think what um hit home sometimes was stronger than other times, and because of all sorts of outside influences, uh work-related or home related or whatever it is. Yes, not even what we've been eating. Yeah, so uh it's good to see that when you're strong, you recognize uh what's happening to someone, and then you can support someone that you see they're exhibiting um those parts of stress and actually think they need a bit of help.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

And I I think that's what hit home. It was um you will be going through a process. Uh actually, and if I feel like I'm not, I might be able to help someone that is.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Yes, absolutely. And and you could see that, and you could feel that because the the environment you're in, um, as an outsider, we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. And I know we came down and saw the rock and listened to people's stories as they shared, but again, it was mind-blowing as to how you don't know what's coming through, and you have to just react.

Training For The Unknown Punch

SPEAKER_02 7:31

So, when you're thinking about you and your teams and the role that you play, how do you even get people, if you like, in inverted commas ready to deal with the unknown and then cope with it?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Uh so I mean, there's different aspects to that. Part of that, um having people able to kind of sit there waiting for the potential event to happen um whilst being uh focused. Part of that's just training, right? Yeah, uh, but another part of that is uh engagement, yes, not just somebody uh sitting quietly waiting. You know, it I guess I I liken it to being in a boxing ring.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Control center, um, you know you're gonna get punched. Yes, and you just don't know when you're gonna get punched, how often and how hard. Right. And control can be like that. You're sat there the whole time anticipating the punch. So um I think it's about people realizing you're not doing this on your own. There's a team of us, and we're delivering that together, and so you're able to support each other um depending on what stage you're going through at the time.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah, sure. And and for you, how do you find you cope with situations? What do you do to look after your mind health? As you said, if we look after that, then the rest of it sort of helps. But how do you deal with that?

Sleep Exercise And Holistic Preparation

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Um so if we come straight into us potentially having a big incident, and for us a big incident on the railway, I I don't describe that because I think uh anything you know you will be aware in the news when we have a big incident, um, what we really need is for muscle memory to kick in, and you ask the question, how do we prepare people? Yeah, that's with people understanding that the first five or ten minutes of a major incident, um, you know exactly what you have to do.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

So um you're set up with a certain amount of tasks, people to contact, um, safety mechanisms to put in place, people to respond. So there's a process. So that helps focus the mind. Um when it comes to preparing yourself, uh, that's a really tough question because it's much bigger than um being sat there. It's um so for me, you know, before I go to bed, I've got all my stuff ready for the next morning. That's when it starts.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Right, got you.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

I go to bed at a good time, I try to uh I try to relax before I go to sleep. Yeah. Um, I do the things I need to do to try and get a good sleep. Yes, sure. Uh, and then obviously then you're coming into work. Um, and so it's a whole process in amongst that. Um, exercise is so important. Yeah. And it's not just about being fit, it's about um getting your body pumping and getting the chemicals moving around so that your body can balance out. Yeah, we can often just be anxious and stressed because our body needs um to feel a bit of physical stress to be able to burn off some of those chemicals or use them in the appropriate way.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

So it's it's uh it's a big one. It's from preparing to have a good sleep, having the shift, um, being respectful of everyone and being understanding of everyone because when you're really stressed, people can react quickly and emotionally. Yes, um, all the way down to when you get home having a walk or whatever your exercise is, or finding that way to de-stress. So it's a much bigger sort of holistic preparation.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah, and I think I think that's so important. Like it is the as you said, preparation. It's and I love the fact you were saying about it's the muscle memory as well. So, you know, it's like a we can train and train and train and and and then it kicks in when we're needing it, but it's that ability to then recover afterwards, and what how do you do that? And we had loads of different people giving us hints and tips.

Recovery Means Really Switching Off

SPEAKER_02 11:40

We had what was it? Um, touch the grass, we had um go and eat a big curry, we had so many things around what we do. And the biggest thing for me was people who went outside, people who went and did, I don't know, fishing or they went for a walk and just got back in touch with nature, which for me was just lovely to see because you don't think that helps, but it really does, doesn't it? When you get outside of your four walls, I think it makes a big difference, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, it it definitely does. I think the key there is, and if people are going to take anything away from this, um, you've got to switch off. Yes. Um you you as an engine um you can't keep revving at a certain level. At some point, you've just got to switch off and let everything settle and recover.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Because danger is you don't recover and then you come back into work in an unrecovered state. And then it doesn't take very much to get you in a uh a more stressed state. And and a stressed state isn't a bad thing. We all have that, and that's part of our everyday jobs and and will always be. But it's um how, as you said right at starts, how prepared we are for that. Yeah. So having a walk outside, um, the things that you normally do all through the day, uh, having your phone on and being connected like that, give that a break. Um, we can be so focused on our job that we don't have that moment of um interaction with people that isn't work-related or uh or have an element of stress to it. And I think um can't underestimate the importance of interacting with someone else in that relaxed um environment.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yeah, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

I think just switching off, if you can get to that point where you can reset to come back. Got you. One of the issues we have, we can quite often deal with traumatic incidents. They're harder to switch off from.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

And so you'll come back in, um, and it'll be a little bit more difficult. Um I guess that's down then for us as a team to recognize that previous day we had a traumatic incident and we still need to talk about that. Yeah. People can focus on their own performance, but tend to then see, you know, did I deliver it as I should? Uh, people can be over-critical of themselves, uh, and and I think that it's easy to get caught up in being over-critical of yourself, and and it's hard to recover from that.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Yeah, that is so true. So I think that's such an important point as well. But I mean, obviously, you've learned to do that over years, and and I always I'm intrigued as to how um do you maybe help support somebody that is this their maybe their first experience of something traumatic like that? And I know you do tons of training, but you know, newer newer into their career, how do you support your team and the the different, I suppose, experiences and levels of wisdom within your team to be able to cope healthily um when something big does happen, or not even so big, but something happens.

Supporting People After Tough Days

SPEAKER_00 15:00

I think um so what I would do is take some time with someone, take them away from the environment they're in. You've seen the control room, uh, it's pretty intense. Yeah, uh, there's a lot of desks. There's every desk has got around eight screens. You know, it's a pretty um uh intense environment. So I take them away from that and talk to people uh with no end time of the conversation. It might be that I've only got 30 minutes, but the reality is when I'm talking to someone, I don't want them to think Dave's only got 30 minutes. Yeah, and you're gonna be able to do that. To go through. Um and during that conversation, it would be um would reflect on the instant and uh and hopefully I what I would be doing is encouraging that person. You we of course put them in a role so they can do the job. Yeah, of course. But it's often we uh when when we're recovering a train service, yeah, it can be very, very difficult. And people will think, oh, I'm the problem, uh, I'm the reason that didn't recover.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Yeah, I got you.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

And it's giving an assurance that actually you're not the reason. Uh it's much bigger than just you, uh, and and having some time to reset. Uh and like you said, outside, uh, what I've done sometimes for people is uh I take them outside and we'll walk around the building five or six times. I think something like six or eight times around the building is a mile.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

So okay, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

We'll we'll do a walk like that. Um and often when you're out walking, just the physical um movement just helps you then uh feel freer in your thinking, yeah. And and it can make that conversation easier when you're sat opposite like we are now. Yeah, when you were sat opposite each other, it can be a bit more intense, even though you're trying to make it feel relaxed. So I try and bring that base level of stress down, keep an assurance. Um, I honestly say to people, when you get home from work, I want you to be the best version of you. Yeah, I don't want you to be the drained version of you, and there's nothing left to give to your family. Um, because the important bit in our lives is our family or what we're doing when we're at home or outside of work. So um part of this is, and we often deal with pretty difficult uh situations, yeah, is making sure that when people step out of the building, um, they're not carrying the weight of that.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yeah, and and I think that's super important. And you you you know, you talk with uh, and you did when we were in the room, and you know, you were sharing some of your bits and of wisdom with everybody. You talk with such passion about this topic in particular. Um, and I know this might be a bit of a curveball question. I didn't give you as a thing, but I'm intrigued to find out what was it that first focused you in on the importance of looking after yourself well in order to be your best? Was there a moment in time? Was there something that you thought, oh wow, I need to do something for me? What was it? Because you do talk with such passion, which is why you're sort of running these workshops to everyone else after we left, you're continuing that. What is it about this topic? Where did that come from for

Managers Must Step In Early

SPEAKER_02 18:34

you?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I think part of that is seeing um it's really devastating to see people that you manage um get to a position where they actually can't reduce that baseline. Right. Oh, okay. And um so they're always quite high, and you're supporting and helping that. And I and I find that you can reach that point, and it's really hard to get back down. Um, and then it's not just hard at work, it's hard at home.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Um, and I and I find that difficult to see someone struggle with that, and so um I'll give them that time. I think I'm passionate about it because I see a lot of people, or previously people, you know, just suck it up, get on with it. You know, you can't do your job, don't find another job. Right. Um and I I sort of despise that, you know, that that's really wrong. I think I'm passionate about it because I'm in a stronger position, and when you're in a position of strength, you should be helping um other people get up to a position of strength. Yeah, and and I really believe it's okay to not be okay. Yeah, it um it's not okay to fight it on your own and to think I can just do this on my own, because you you can't. You can't do it, no. Even if that is the person you're speaking to doesn't know what you're dealing with, but you are connecting with someone outside of that incident.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

And I th I think that's um that's yeah, so refreshing to hear because it's uh like you said, it's okay to not be okay. Um, and as you said, 25 years ago, it was like, you know, man up, get a grip, you know, whatever it might have been. And I suppose the shift now is more people are, I suppose, open to talking about it, which encourages others to say it's okay. And as their leader, I suppose, you've created that safe environment for them to be able to do that. Um, so if you were sort of giving some encouragement to maybe people listening in that are you know new into managing teams or wanting to create that safe space, what um yeah, what would you ask them to consider to create a space that people feel okay to talk and know it's okay not to be okay?

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Something I learned very quickly as a manager is you think there's two people having trouble, they'll just sort it out. Right. That doesn't happen. They don't sort it out. Um, you absolutely, as a manager, need to make an intervention and settle that. You can't just let something work its way out because it causes stress that people bring home. Sure. And further to that analogy, um, if you're gonna brush something under the carpet or under the rug, um the more times you do that, all you do is you you put a mound of dirt under that rug, and at some point you're gonna trip over that. That's true. Yes, things have to be dealt with. Yes. As a new manager, don't shy away from dealing with difficult situations.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

It just will get more difficult.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Um, you know, if you're not feeling really confident when you're um dealing with something that's negative, whether that's somebody displaying uh a negative attribute or they're behaving improperly, or um whether somebody Is you can see they've totally withdrawn into themselves, and you think, oh, this is going to be a difficult conversation.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Um, you're their manager or you are a manager.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

You need to step up.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

You need to feel um feel that strength in yourself to have that conversation. Um, those conversations actually, they're not as bad as you think. They're okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Um the most valuable thing that you will ever give anyone is your time.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yes, that's very true.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Pay rise. Um, you know, the the joy of a pay rise, and yeah, I'd like one too.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Hey, we'd all like one, wouldn't we? It doesn't last long. It doesn't, does it?

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Um, you know, and I I think that the biggest thing is when your manager, who's very busy, gives you half an hour of their time.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Uh and I guarantee most times you'll go home and say, Oh, I had a good conversation with my manager today.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Um, and and listen. So I try not to go in with an agenda. I may have a couple of bullet points, of course. But um, don't go in with an agenda. When somebody tells you I've got nothing to say, um, still give them that 30 or 40 minutes. Some of the most meaningful and powerful conversations started with Dave, I'm fine, mate. I've got nothing to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

So um yeah, to new managers, existing managers, any managers, your time is the most valuable thing you've got. Yes. You know, as you give it to people, um, for people to feel supported um and encouraged.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Yeah, I think I'm I'm with you all of that time. We always say, because then they feel valued, they feel that they matter, they that you they know you are busy, but the fact you've done that, uh, and I just think that is so I wish more people would do it sometimes, going from there. But I think, you know, when you when you sort of sat and said, okay, this is really super important, and I'm gonna be involved in this project, and I want to roll this out as well. So you're continuing the work. What was it? Um, because you agreed to run the network across the network, thank you very much for that. Um, so what what else made it really important for you to want to be the person or the people as part of that small core team that are rolling this on uh across the network? Why was it important to you to be able to do that?

Keeping The Momentum And Respect

SPEAKER_00 24:24

So it's something I don't want to drop it. Right. Priorities change. Yes, of course. I didn't want that to happen. I'm in a position where I can appoint people and I can support people to help deliver this. So I felt like it's right that I do it.

unknown 24:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Before I was a train driver, um, I was an aircraft engineer and I did that for 13 or 14 years.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

So when this, what you were delivering, was described to me, and it was described in the mechanics of how you physically respond, that really resonated with me. Good. And and I liked the way you lifted out of me the responsibility of how I react. Oh, actually, I'm my body's gonna go through this.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Uh, and that, and I really like that, and I I just didn't want that to stop, I didn't want that momentum to be lost. So one of the other people uh um we delivered this with was Nina. And Nina and I are about to deliver another one of these courses uh brilliant months.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Oh, I just think it's amazing, and you're right, because and I love the fact it connected with that your the way your brain works. There is a process, there's a mechanism, which our bodies are ultimately, um, and to be able to raise the awareness of that to others, I suppose, because not everybody has that awareness, as you said right at the beginning. Not not everybody is self-aware enough to know how to cope um with different things and experiences uh you know is our biggest teacher sometimes, isn't it? So um, and I uh I think you've given us so many different things to consider um just in that. So I really appreciate you sharing that. Um, and I suppose out of all of that, there's loads we could take, actually, Dave. But if there was one, I'm gonna ask you for one call to action for our listeners. What would you what would you yeah, what would you ask of our listeners? What would be your call to action as a result of being able to cope healthily that you would want them to consider?

SPEAKER_00 26:19

I think um having respect. Um and that respect is for yourself and um for the people that you have an impact on.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

I really love that. And I know you know we've well, yeah, we had a bit of a um a pressure, if you say, because we had three takes of this, didn't we? Because your poor laptop has died. So I hope you get it fixed. Um, and I just want to say a huge, huge thank you. And um, yeah, I hope you have a you know good rest of the day as well. So thank you very much, Dave. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Take care.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Thank you. Bye.

Host Takeaways And Next Series Tease

SPEAKER_01 26:57

So Laura, what do you reckon? Oh, we all need a bit of Dave Stokes in our life.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

He's a good one. He was really good, wasn't it? Yeah, it was really good. Um what he talked about was just, I think, really incredible because um I really like that whole bit about inner resilience, and he talked um really well about the basics around eating healthily, making sure you get fresh air, all of those things that we know are important to us, um, mental fitness that and as well as physical fitness, so that's strength um that we have, not just from a physical point of view, but also mentally. Um, and I think the way that he used the analogy that we use a lot of you put your own oxygen mask on first before you put others on. Um, and I think that is back to basics, really, isn't it? And how often do you know we forget to do that? But he was hey, I really enjoyed the way he said time is uh is a massive resource, and how do we use it wisely and well, both for us in work but also outside of work as well? So um, and that self-again, self-awareness before a crisis, knowing what you can do, what you're capable of, um, and knowing how to recover from it was just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah. And Dev, it's interesting when we we had the uh joy and the privilege of of working with the rail operation um centre um teams, yeah, us on our team, and the camaraderie and the energy that you could see, and that's what then gives you those break pads, you know, when when you've got things that squeal in and demand, you know, attention because there's some very difficult situations that they deal with. Yeah. Um, and it's interesting because I've been running, well, like yourself, like all of us the team, lots of leadership and team workshops at the moment, and camaraderie is a word that keeps coming up, it is about creating a great team environment, and it's the chit-chat and it's the knowing each other, spotting spotting how people are doing. So, as you said, it's the basic stuff, but when time is pressured or you have a stressful job, those things can kind of go out the window, but they're gonna be in first as part of the furniture.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah, definitely. And I think it's up to you know who their leader manager is, and he was saying about how do you create the right environment for that. Um, and it it is, it's you know, it's not just him on his own, but there's a team that create that. And I just think, you know, that you're right, that camaraderie is what keeps them, helps them, supports them, enables them to move through whatever it is they're having to deal with, um, yeah, in a way that means we're learning through our wisdom, I suppose, our lessons learned from before. How do we engage with people that have never experienced this type of environment before? Um, and I think you know, his preparation transcertainty, you we just never know. But that physical, mental, you know, emotional, and spiritual, which is the four cornerstones that make us a human, um, we really do have to focus on them so that we can cope healthily when we need to.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Beautifully put. So, in light of that, come on, coach, what would be your call to action? So we take it from wishful thinking into something that makes a difference.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

I think, like I was really when Dave said treat your um, be honest about how you're feeling about your mental health. For me, that would be, I suppose, linked to that would be my call to action. If you're feeling out of sorts or you're feeling a bit not with it, don't hide it. Um, we mask it a lot at time, but know who you can go to and say, look, I'm really struggling, or this is just not working, or this is how I'm feeling. But name the emotion, name the feeling can make a huge difference. And please don't say, No, no, I'm fine because you're not.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Yeah, oh thanks, Debs. My share the secret would be you know, you know someone who has been saying, you know, I'm feeling stressed at the moment or a bit overwhelmed. Get them to listen to this. There are some such strong characters who are out there behind the scenes holding it all together, and you know, not every hero wears a cape, and sometimes those heroes need a bit of support as well. So it's it's it's okay to not be okay because we're we're we're humans. Um, so that would be my share the secret. Nice. Oh, I love that. I love that too. Um now, Debs. Yes, Lau. I've got my wellness plan in place. Yes. I've written my briefing for the team about how we're gonna create camaraderie and we're gonna shift our culture on. Yeah. And then my 18-month-old has just vomited all over the page. Love that, Lord. We are going to be focusing in our next four-part mini series. How do you make working parenting work? What does that mean to be able to handle all those shifting priorities, the changing identities, the very simple, uh, well, it sounds simple, but the very practical thing around time management. And I cannot wait to get your views, Debs, because you've been working as a parenting coach for many, many years. So I cannot wait to get a bit of an insight into how do you make working parenting, how do you make it work these days?

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Yeah. And I think it's such a hot topic, and I cannot wait because I'm very privileged to hear from both sides, you know, the mums, the dads, the the the partners that have got their grandparents looking after their children and everything in between, and the manager. Um, yeah, we've got so much richness coming from the people that I've had the privilege to work from, and I get to see babies as well. Oh, you get to see babies. Okay, because they bring them with them or they have them on the screen, and because, yeah, in reality, that's life, right? So you can't necessarily bring your baby into a boardroom, but no, so it's it's a good topic to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, can't wait. And of course, that is the ultimate human edge debts.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

I mean, surely that is the preserve, even in a thousand years' time. Yeah, the the the act of having a human baby that's um, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Yes, no robot law, no robot here.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

No, so we've gotta make it work, otherwise, what's all this legacy for? Who's gonna who are we creating the workplaces for if we've got no babies to come in and secure the tax pipeline? No, sorry. I mean, enjoy work.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

I love that. Oh, it's gonna be such a good topic, Law. I'm really looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Yeah. Oh, and thanks again to um Dave Stokes, Chris Parsons, and Lee Emrist, who have been incredible guests.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Tom Kircher as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Tom Kircher, of course.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Yeah, it's been good, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah, really good.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

We need you make sure you're looking after your resilience as well, I hope. Yes, looking after yourself, otherwise I'll be like checking in on you.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

I will, and don't be worried, I'm not gonna go off and have more babies. Um I'm not gonna relax that much.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

I don't then. That's okay. That's good to know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Oh, well have a great one. And too, lovely. Love you. Bye.

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SPEAKER_01 34:10

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