292. Returning To Work - What Leaders Need To Understand About Returning Parents

Returning to work after parental leave can feel like stepping onto a moving treadmill while everyone else acts like nothing changed. We hear that quiet panic all the time: Can I still do this? Will people see me differently now? What happens when childcare falls apart and my kid gets sick again? We go straight into the invisible worries returning parents carry, and how the identity shift from confident professional to brand-new beginner can hit harder than anyone expects.

We also challenge a trap many workplaces fall into: confusing visibility with value. If the ‘best’ people are the ones who stay late, attend everything, travel overnight, or sit at a desk from 9-5, then returning parents get sidelined even when they deliver more impact in less time. We share real examples of practical flexibility that works in learning, leadership development, and day-to-day management, plus the kind of proactive communication that reduces guilt and protects trust.

Alongside our conversation, you’ll hear voice notes from parents describing the fog ‘baby land’, the nerves of the first meeting back, the bittersweet pop of the bubble, and the surprising truth that work can sometimes feel like a break. We end with a question we want every manager and leader to sit with: would the parents on your team say they feel supported, or simply accommodated?

If you know a leader or a colleague with someone returning from parental leave, share this with them. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what helped most when you returned to work.

Transcript

Why Working Parents Need Support

SPEAKER_05 0:02

Devs. Law, are you alright?

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Yeah, I'm doing alright. I've had a good week. Oh, nice. Loved. Listening to the incredible voices that uh we've been getting some voice notes for to contribute to this series. It's been a joy, hasn't it? Oh, it's been amazing.

SPEAKER_05 0:21

Yeah, and also the the words of wisdom that have come through and the um I suppose the awareness we don't normally hear what it really is like. Um, and I think to be able to bring that to the forefront to go, oh yeah, because I know, you know, I'm I'm my son's now 32, as you know. Um, and that feels like it's an age away when I was having to do the juggling of, you know, parenting, returning to work, all of that. It j but there's loads of people that are having new bees all the time now.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Yeah. And um, you know, last week I didn't get an opportunity to shoehorn anything about robots and AIs.

SPEAKER_05 1:01

Oh, damn. Are you gonna do that today? Well, surely, Dick.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

If there was a visual example of the human edge, yes, and what is it humans can do that um AIs and and uh robots and all that kind of automated stuff can do, well, they can't have babies. This is the human edge. Yeah, it is and where it takes energy to create one, energy and connection to create one, it takes energy and connection to raise a baby. And what we wanted to focus on was almost shine a light on all the unsung, hidden work that goes on behind the scenes in terms of making working parent, making that balance work. So our first focus was looking at identity shifts, like who am I now? How do you wrap your head around someone who might be top of their game professionally or really enjoys what role that they do, and suddenly you're about to become a complete beginner and a novice in something that you know the books will tell you what to do, but it's only when you're there at midnight, you know, you do you're making the decision. Do I give it cow poll or not?

SPEAKER_05 2:10

Yeah, pick him up, put him down. Yeah, what do I do?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

What do I do with it? And then uh our last focus looked at well, what does that mean practically as well as emotionally to make that shift, navigating between work and home and making that shift from parent to colleague. And uh this one we're gonna be looking at how do we optimise that return to work bit. Yes, and um, what's just been a joy is being able to splice this in with real-life voice notes from real life parents from all walks of life and all parts of the world. Um, and devs, unlike maybe some of other topics, we haven't needed to Google this one because Devon, my friend, have been working there in the background as one of your passion projects, working as a parent coach for a number of different organizations behind the years, helping countless people feel a little bit stronger and more set up to be able to make that return to work after having a child. So um, I'd love to hear your thoughts, Debs. What are some of the key themes

Optimizing The Return To Work

SPEAKER_02 3:10

that um you have heard over the years when people are making that return to work? And in particular, Debs, what do we need to understand about returning parents?

SPEAKER_05 3:19

Yeah, oh yeah, I've been very privileged and I just love it. But I I think you're right. Um I think a lot of them carry what we call invisible worries around what's going on. Um and it starts even before they go back into work or their day of due to due date to return to work. And that's why when we are working with people, we sort of pick them up three months after baby's been born or adopted, um, or then we will pick them up again after their first kit day, which is keeping in touch day, and then we pick them up probably towards just before they return, and then we pick up them again twice after, so that we have that whole experience with them, which is um is it's just a privilege to see because you know we can talk all about it until they work back into work. Um, because things like can I still do this? You know, am I able? Um, will people see me really differently now that I'm a parent? Um, have I lost credibility? All of the doubt that comes in. Um, what happens again, going back to what we talked about, which is the biggest question, how do I how do I manage it if my child isn't well? Um, and you know, obviously, as you we sort of said last time, you know, some some families have you know children that do not are not well. And it's again navigating that landscape to help them realize, you know, that they're not alone, first of all. Um, and if they've got a really supportive employer, then then you can see the difference to those that haven't. So we never know. I mean, children are so unpredictable that we have to be aware of what could, you know, might be coming up or might be on their radar and still supporting them with that. So I think that's really um important for us to just consider because as we said, you know, that the emotional adjustment is huge. Um, and the mental load that people carry, people don't see that. Um, I think people come across as being or appearing to be very capable and really on it. Um and they you know, they come back, I think, carrying more than just their laptop they come back with or a diary. They actually come back, you know, carrying what we talked about before was the emotional load, but also the planning, as you mentioned, the logistical nightmare that it can be. And also, as we talked earlier, um at the first one, these the shift in identity. Um, and you know, and I think that's something that people don't see going on, and the space that we give people um enables them to just be them. I'm not here to tell them how to raise their child children or babies. That's not my job. I'm here to work with them, and I think that's the bit they have a voice and a space where they can go, I don't know if I can do this, or um, you know, what things have changed. I think you mentioned, you know, one of your people that you know, a system change, anything like that going, you've been out a year, then you're going back in, and the whole IT system's you know flipped on its head. It's how do you manage that? So all of that will be not will be internally going on for people, and you may not see it at all because we're very good at masking some of this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

I've

Invisible Worries And Lost Confidence

SPEAKER_02 6:30

got reflection on the back of something you just said in that bit, and then um I've got a a question to ask. You know, my reflection is although we've called this working parents making the balance work, working parents with a capital W, capital P, it's not one title that fits all. Behind that is as many different storylines as there are humans, and I think, you know, even just one parent saying to another, just drop your kid off at school. I don't know what all the fuss is about. You know, we can make the meeting start at 9.15, it's fine. If I haven't had the experience of my kid having a complete meltdown and it taking hours to get that child in a state to be able to even be, you know, move leaving the house, for example, for me to just glibly say, Oh, you know, just drop your kid off at school, because my experience of working parent might be vastly different from someone else. So I guess it's like any of these characteristics, yes, it might be we have in common that we have created offspring or we are now looking after, you know, um a young person, but uh it doesn't mean that we're all in that same boat because if you've got a nanny and a cook and a chef and a driver and a gardener and a chauffeur, I don't know if you have a chauffeur and a driver, but let's just say Well, let's just say let's just say if you had all of the manpower that it would take an incredibly wealthy person, for example, to rear children, then I'm sure we all could make have have amazing hair and makeup every day. But the reality is behind the scenes, there are people doing their best to do a hundred and you know, 101 different jobs um to to to even make that morning work. But I guess the point I wanted to land is is just because you've got two people that are working parents that are colleagues, their experiences will be vastly different. And in fact, I guess what we're talking about is you can't judge anyone because unless you've actually lived in that person's household and seen the reality, it might not be quite as easy as it might have been for someone else.

SPEAKER_05 8:26

I think I think that's such a good point, actually, Law, because again, people don't necessarily share what's going on behind the scenes, if that if that means because they fear of judgment. Um, you know, when people and they open up and they say, Yeah, well, you know, my third child, you know, I'm having my third child now, but the first child has just been, you know, given a diagnosis of ADHG or dyslexia, you know, they may not have told their workplace that. So that's added pressure, but they, you know, they're very comfortable to share that with us because that gives you another layer of stuff that they're having to then navigate their way through as well as look after their others. So I think you're absolutely right. You know, just because we're parents, we all have very different experiences. And and just to say, well, when I was a mum, this is what I did, that's the last thing people want to hear. Um, because they don't care what you did, because you're not in their shoes because their circumstances are so different to what ours. I mean, even ours would be different with ours. But I think that's the thing. It's you know, don't just assume that everybody has the same experience of you, good, bad, or indifferent.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:34

Good point.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah. And I think just complete random, but it kind of links into all this because it's about home life, uh, work life. I remember when things are starting to kick off about returning to work, and where organizations were sort of saying, right, that's it, everyone in for three days a week, you know, rather than kind of as and when. And uh one of the clients we were working with, um, everyone really kicked off about the financial impact that was going to have.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

And you could really see a disconnect between the frontline teams and the um heads of because an extra four grand a year commuting doesn't mean that much if you're on 120 grand. It means an awful lot if you're on 26 grand. And there was just a lack of understanding about actually four grand four thousand pounds

Why Every Parent’s Reality Differs

SPEAKER_02 10:20

means very different things to different people. Absolutely. Depending on where you sit in that organizational pay structure. And I think it's the same with you know, parents. Someone might say, Why don't they why don't they just get childcare?

SPEAKER_05 10:30

Well, they might not have like 1,500 quid a week to spend. No.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Because that's just the way the world works, and you know, behind and it won't last forever, but behind the scenes, you know, there's a lot of work that's going on just to get yourself kind of ready for work. Yeah. So I'd love to ask you, Debs, where what are some um stories or examples that you've heard of where organizations are maybe unintentionally overlooking brilliant talent because they're so busy dealing with whatever is going on behind the scenes?

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Yeah, that's a yeah, I think that's a good question because what do people measure? You know, are they measuring um because visibility and value are not the same thing? So are they thinking about, you know, unconsciously maybe that they do reward visibility. You're always in the office, you're always working late, you know, they're you know, you're always present, you turn up to every meeting. Um, they're constantly available and they're always being always on, whereas actually they might not be adding value. So I think people underestimate that, you know, you can do a lot if you're given an hour just to crack on and do something. And that could add an enormous amount of value, but it's taking you one hour. Um, and I think that's the bit that people need to think about is because parents are, I think they're the you know, one of the most super efficient at managing their time and energy really, really well because they have to make it more intentional. That, you know, they don't have to be present at work all the time. And I think goes back to your coming in four, three days a week or four days a week. Um, you must sit at your desk between nine and five, or you can only be on the shop floor at this time and this time. Actually, yeah, that's like stifling sometimes because they could still get the job done more efficiently, more effectively, because as a parent, you are so used to having to juggle that and being super quick. As I even now with my mum, she uh she always says to me, I when we have dinner together, um, and she said, God, you eat your dinner so quickly. And I went, Do I? Like that. And I'm thinking, yeah, I do, because I can just get something in and still work in that half hour that I've got before I have to maybe look after her. So you do not lose that efficiency, I don't think. Um, and it's only when she pointed it out to me that I went, Do I? She's deleting.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

You know, you're burping and hiccupping with a whole night after.

SPEAKER_05 12:56

I need some like, yeah. Some burping.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yeah. Devon winding.

SPEAKER_05 13:02

Dani windy now. Um, and I think this is where organisations have to be super careful that they're not equating um that if you know, that long hours with commitment. And I think, and that pressure of being present has, you know, does not determine whether you're a great leader or you have leadership potential either. Um, and I think that's what some organizations, I'm not saying all of them, can overlook parents sometimes because their working patterns are very different. And I think it comes back to that awareness of, you know, it has all changed. And how adaptable are we? Um, do we still get the job done? Um, and I think there's so many questions that are out there about it,

Visibility Is Not The Same Value

SPEAKER_05 13:45

um, because some make visibility a value. Um, but actually, by doing that, you're you're overlooking some incredibly talented people who can turn something around in half an hour, whereas somebody who hasn't got that other learn about time and energy can might take, you know, four hours because they're fannying around with it. Whereas a parent will just go pragmatically, right? I need to get from here to here. How do I do that? And that's what I see a lot in the parents that I work with is that practical, pragmatic approach. It's got to be done. I'm gonna make it happen. And they have boundaries as well, which is always fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Oh, yeah. I mean, I now use the train. If I'm if I'm travelling in, I will use the train to do work, whereas before I would have like watched something. Yeah, interesting, isn't it? And then making the decision of, I mean, I'm self-employed, so it's a bit different, but yeah, actually, um, I'd rather sit for sit for half an hour, read a story, whereas I could have kind of well, this is when she was younger, she doesn't want me doing that now.

SPEAKER_05 14:45

She doesn't want you doing that now. Are you okay?

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Yes, yes. Yeah, fine, okay. Yeah, just back to the glory days of when she actually wanted me around. Um and uh she still wants you, Laura, it's just different. Yeah, just when she needs to buy something or an app to be uh agreed on the phone. Yeah. Um that level strategic thinking in a 13-year-old when you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

Oh my god, they are super smart.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Absolutely. That's it. Never underestimate that. Yeah, the hustle starts at 5 pm. Yes. I really like the way you've done your eyeliner today. Yeah. And two hours later, can I um send you? So what? What smart people, right? Smart people, smart people. Mighty, we're gonna need smart kids, Debs. You were able to bring some rebel ideas, you know, as well. All of us adults are there on ChatGPT going, how do I lead my life? Anyway, yes. Um, so um, yes, I think that's interesting from a from a time and perspective. And I can't wait to hear now a couple of voices sharing their thoughts, um, particularly around from an organization perspective.

Voice Notes On Re-Entering Work

SPEAKER_02 15:50

What's really useful to know about someone who's on that return to work process?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Returning to work feels like you are taking a big step into a new world. It feels like you've been in a bit of a fog uh baby land, you know, um, listening to Miss Rachel, those of you that know that um station on YouTube, or you know, dealing with baby talk and crawling and you know, feeding your baby and looking up allergies and foods and purees and baby lead weaning versus you know all the different controversial topics on children's, you know, upbringing. And then you go into like, oh, I've gotta turn my brain on for work and can I even do that again? And so I remember um the first meeting I had to go to, I was so nervous, and I kept saying in the meeting, like, hey guys, sorry, I still have mom brain, I may not be as sharp. And I almost said it to to kind of be a cover in case I didn't feel like you know my answers were good enough. And I remember kind of killing it in the meeting, and they all looked at me and said, Are you sure you still have mom brain? And I kind of laughed and realized, you know, it's all there, it's all still there. That part of me didn't go away, and it's it's like once you step back in, it you shake off the cobwebs, and and yeah, you're there and you're sharper and and sometimes even better than you were before because you've had to manage just such a huge amount of information and stress and you know, just responsibility, and you know, you have more, I guess, bandwidth than you think.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

Returning to work felt exciting and a return to my quote-unquote old life, but also it was nerve-wracking having been away for over a year. I wasn't quite sure how I was gonna balance the nursery pickups, the commutes, and my workload, and how I'd be welcomed back into the team. But I found that with the right support from my line manager and my colleagues was really key to easing me through the transition.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Returning to work following maternity leave was bittersweet for me personally. It felt like the bubble I'd created with my child was popped. And I was thrust back into the world of work. Having to leave my child to be able to return to the workplace. However, it was also a really great thing for me because at my point of return to work, I did feel like I needed more adult interaction. I felt like the baby groups that I was attending wasn't giving me enough of what I needed to be the person I was before I was mum. And that was so helpful to my mental health and to my professional development that I was able to pick my return time and was welcomed back very warmly

Flexibility That Actually Helps People

SPEAKER_03 18:50

by the company.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

So, devs, let's have a chat about a very real part of um like the work that we do, so putting on learning and development for organizations. I've definitely noticed a trend this side of the pandemic where when people are invited to or offered the option to come on, for example, a leadership development residential.

SPEAKER_05 19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Pre-pandemic, there was a, well, if you can't stay overnight, then you're not coming on it.

SPEAKER_05 19:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

And I have noticed a flexing and more open-mindedness to well, if staying overnight isn't going to work for your family setup, that's okay. You can still access that learning because there potentially are lots and lots of fantastic aspiring leaders who just can't sleep overnight in a hotel because they might be the only or a key caregiver to a child.

SPEAKER_05 19:44

Yeah, I I think you're right. And that ability to recognise what that person might need in that moment. Um, and I love the fact that you know people are starting to realise that actually though life does not revolve around work, which is why we flipped our work, you know, work-life balance to life work balance or harmony to be able to take account of where the world's been and where it's going to. Um, and I think that people can really help returning parents by creating that trust, first of all. And that that's okay. They uh um there's an acknowledgement that you have a life outside of work and that you have that level of flexibility, and that I goes back to the psychological safety that people create in that workspace that enables people to feel like they can speak up and ask or say, um, and therefore, you know, given realistic expectations around well, what is expected. So, you know, we've done it on workshops, haven't we, Law, where you know, we might have pushed the start time slightly back so somebody could drop their child at nursery and then come on to the workshop. Because, you know, why wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Um and likewise with end times, yeah. Number of session time times where people might say, actually, I've got to go and collect my kid, I need to leave at four. And then someone else says, actually, me too. And then when you ask a group, how about we can press lunch and then we finish at four, and you see everyone going, Oh, thank goodness. If you haven't got a kid to pick up, yeah, you know, people have got other things that they kind of need to do. And I think most people would rather, yeah, have have that. And then you can have that. Yes, and then you can have it all. And yeah, there's no rule written down that every session has to finish at 1645.

SPEAKER_05 21:25

Oh gosh, no. I mean, we don't work that way anyway, thankfully. Um but you're right. Exactly. Because you'll be watching the clock going, are they gonna finish? Are they gonna finish? Because I think that's the that's the key, uh, you still have to get the work done. I get that, but they can it can still be done in with a level of flexibility and adaptability. And also choice, I think, is something that if we can have a conversation and maybe managers, leaders have a conversation with their colleague or whoever says, you know, I understand that, um, help me understand, you know, how. We're going to still ensure we reach our deadline. So what's your thoughts? Not dictating to them you must go home and work, but asking them in that approach that says, so you know, what's going to enable you to still deliver on that piece of work that we need by, I don't know, tomorrow at you know five o'clock in the afternoon or something. So you can talk about it and agree a way forward, um, compare what you know where we're at, what we can do. And I think that's respect, really. Um it's not, but it's not bending over backwards or it's not giving other people preferential treatment over others. I think it is this flex being able to be being clear on communication, creating clarity about what is and what happened, you know, will happen, but also being able to um take into consideration somebody else's circumstances. Um, because that comes from a place of compassion and kindness, right? Yeah. And as long as you've had that conversation that says, We I need this out, you know, because if you're a manager, I'm just going to put this and be in my bonnet, if you're telling someone or you haven't told somebody, oh, by the way, I need that by three o'clock this afternoon, and then listen, hearing you say that at two o'clock in the afternoon, you're not a great leader or manager because you haven't considered what your team are being or what they're currently working on. So I think managers, leaders maybe have to be a little bit more proactive in thinking about what's coming. And yes, we always have emergencies, I get that, but not just expecting because you can drop everything and do it, that everybody else can. And that's not just working parents, but I think they forget that, and then that's what builds on guilt for the parent. And oh, it just becomes a minefield. Um, and they then that relationship becomes quite fragile. Um, and people don't want that. Um, you know, the best conversation you can have with someone is so what support helps you do your best work now, um, you know, rather than assuming what somebody needs, don't ever assume what a parent needs, um, or anybody really, but most importantly, um, it's I think it's making sure you're creating the environment where people um can succeed without actually breaking themselves in order to do that. But that takes a lot of self-awareness in whoever your manager leader is, right? And understanding that, like we do, just because you know, Carly's 32 now, it doesn't mean I don't understand what's going on for you and your, you know, your girl because there's an age gap. You never forget that, or you shouldn't forget that. That's my beer in my bonnet. I'll get off my side box now.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I love it, Devs. Because it's the compassionate bit. And um, I've got a curveball bit that I'll do as a final message just to make you laugh. But um, let's hear from a couple more voices, because I think this idea about what do we need to know to understand about returning parents, this is um, you know, this is life stuff, not just whether you're a working parent or not. But yeah, uh, yeah, what really helps?

Voice Notes On Guilt And Sickness

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Let's hear for some more voices.

SPEAKER_04 24:57

As a working parent, the thing nobody prepared me for was the fact that work can actually feel like a break. When I heard people say this before I had a child, I thought it sounded like a bonkers sentiment. In fact, dressing for work, getting on the train, collaborating with colleagues over coffee, having a nice lunch, can all indeed feel like a bit of a break from the physical rigours of childcare.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

As a working parent, the thing that no one prepared us for was so, on a practical level, um that first year of your child being in a childcare setting, how much sickness and illnesses they pick up, it's just wild. Um, and then having to manage between the two of you how you're gonna how you're gonna manage that with work. Um, but the second thing was despite me having a year out of work, which I feel very fortunate that I was able to do so, um it felt the I really felt the push-pull um of returning. So um obviously practically having to return to work financially, but also wanted to keep one foot on the ladder with my career that I'd worked really hard for. Um but like emotionally I felt like I was doing I was going against the grain of what was natural for me and and that was to be there and look after my baby, and it felt so unnatural handing her over to a professional, albeit a stranger, and um yeah, I just wasn't ready for that. Um and I it flawed me actually, so um yeah, that's something that I, Sash We were not prepared for.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

As working parents, the thing nobody prepared us for was the guilt that you feel. The guilt for having to use before school and after school clubs to ensure that you're able to be in the office and be present at work whilst missing that key time with your children. It's the guilt that you feel when you're not able to make every single assembly that you're invited to, or every sports day, or every event that the school wants you to attend with your children, whether that is chaperoning a trip or just being able to do the school run at normal times with all the other parents.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

As a working parent, the thing nobody prepared me for was the fact that work can actually feel like a break. When I heard people say this before I had a child, I thought it sounded like a bonkers sentiment. In fact, dressing for work, getting on the train, collaborating with colleagues over coffee, having a nice lunch can all indeed feel like a bit of a break from the physical rigours of childcare.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Now, Debs, you mentioned about being proactive. Now

The Long Game For Employers

SPEAKER_02 27:55

let's just be super proactive. You know I always like to think long game. Yes. So any organization that is hoping to have a customer, a patient, a client, a pipeline that lasts for anything longer than 20 years, you need working parents to be able to return into your workplace. Otherwise, how is that next customer pipeline going to be raised and reared and have a positive perspective about your industry or whatever it is that your kind of sector you're providing? So I think playing long term, if today's workers are generating tax for the current people that are retired and the young kids that are getting educated, well, at some point we're all going to be moving on one bit. And in order for me as a 40, coming up to 50 year old, to have any likelihood of having a state pension for anyone else who's in that same age as me, that's gonna be today's babies that are gonna be generating that your our state pension, if uh we're lucky enough to then have that. So if I'm gonna play the long game here, it is in everyone's best interest to ensure that working parents are set up to be able to navigate the return into work. Otherwise, how do you make work work? If it is impossible for anyone to be able to have a professional life and a um parental life, yeah, definitely. The math doesn't add up. We have to make returning parents to work, we have to enable that process to work. So I'm thinking long game here.

SPEAKER_05 29:31

I love that. Yeah, because I think um I think organisations can really stop and think about that. I think people underestimate that that whole work spectrful working parents. I think sometimes, and this is my perception, that they get they do get overlooked. And I think they need to think about how do workplaces evolve in order to make sure that you know we're working alongside real human lives. And like you mentioned last time, it's not just necessarily people with parents, you know, bringing up the children, it could also be the caring, carers as well, the other end of the, you know, as well. So, how do people, organisations, when they're having people return to work, how do they set up that environment so that they do evolve against humans and real life is going on? And um I think it's you know, you I don't think we can separate that any longer. And I think that's what's really important to understand that, yeah, okay, you may or may not have children of your own, but you still have to have an awareness of your team around you and what their circumstances are. Um, because I think that environment where people can succeed is the one that's gonna enable your organization to thrive and survive, regardless, because you've you know you've cared enough. You're you know, because you've been responsible enough and realizing that those people, you know, people matter. Um, and especially working parents, you yeah, I don't underestimate what they bring. Yeah, because that's the hardest thing I see if I'm coaching somebody where they might get overlooked for something, and it's heartbreaking because somebody above them hasn't really thought about it and or it's given them consideration in the way, and you just think you're missing a trick. This person is amazing. Um yeah, so it's always an interesting battle.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

So, Debs, of all of these conversations, I mean it's just been some brilliant um one that ones that we've had. I've really enjoyed this, and I'm looking forward to our fourth and final one, which we've been looking particularly around how to keep your confidence and self-belief up. So that'd be a nice way to uh just kind of wrap up this four-part focus, looking at working parents, making

A Question For Leaders And Closing

SPEAKER_02 31:40

the balance work. What would your call to action be for this one, Debs, about that return to work process?

SPEAKER_05 31:46

I think my question is going to be aimed at those that manage lead parents, um, or are managers themselves or leaders themselves as parents. Is if you lead people, whatever, in ever ask yourself the following. Um, would the parents in my team say they feel supported or simply accommodated?

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Nice question. And my one would be I've got two people that are flashing into mind at the moment who are leaders on leadership workshops I've been running this week, two different clients, different industries, and two people saying, Oh, yeah, I've actually got someone returning from MAT leave who's starting in September. I'm gonna get them to listen to this. So if you know someone with whom has got someone who's returning from parental leave, um, get them to listen to this because that is gonna enable us to have just a little bit more understanding as to what might have gone on from them. Yes, it's hugely exciting times and emotional times, but there are also some uh you know, some heavy lifting, as there are for all of us. So, what we wanted to hope on this mini-series, it's not excluding people that aren't working parents, no, but uh we've all had parents ourselves and maybe they worked or they didn't work, and life, as you said, is evolving rapidly fast, and uh this is an opportunity just to kind of check in, catch up, and think yeah, are there some things that we can do that could maybe tweak and adjust and make it an even better workplace experience? So, devs, it's been a joy having this conversation. I can't wait for the fourth one.

SPEAKER_05 33:19

Absolutely. No, no me, Law. I'm looking forward to that one. That's a big topic.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Big topic confidence self-belief.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Let's get Googling, we're gonna ask Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_05 33:29

I don't think we need to, Law, because we hear that all the time, don't we? I think we've got it. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Thousands of post-it note images I've accumulated over the years, and I know you as well, of what's going to help me to feel more confident because that's often the ultimate thing people are wanting from any session that they're on. Definitely. So, Debbie, have an awesome week.

SPEAKER_05 33:48

You too, lovely, and I'll see you on the next one. Love you. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

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