In this episode of Nourish by MN350, host Jeff Diamond explores the future of agriculture with Mhonpaj Lee, an organic farmer, real estate agent, and food advocate within the Hmong community in Minnesota. Mhonpaj and her mother run “Mhonpaj’s Garden," a family organic farm focused on instruction, collaboration, and community support. Mhonpaj talks about her family’s journey into the world of regenerative agriculture, as well as her own journey.
Mhonpaj shares her perspectives on the challenges faced by young farmers and farmers of color, as well as her reasons for hope. Part of the solution lies in programs such as Big River Farms, an incubator run by The Food Group that teaches organic farming to people from historically underrepresented communities, and food hubs such as The Good Acre, which connects local food producers to the Twin Cities food system. Mhonpaj believes replicating these types of programs with resources from the Headwaters Community Food and Water Bill (HF1332 / SF1580) should be a priority for our state legislators.
In this episode of Nourish by MN350, host Jeff Diamond explores the future of agriculture with Mhonpaj Lee, an organic farmer, real estate agent, and food advocate within the Hmong community in Minnesota. Mhonpaj and her mother run “Mhonpaj’s Garden," a family organic farm focused on instruction, collaboration, and community support. Mhonpaj talks about her family’s journey into the world of regenerative agriculture, as well as her own journey.
Mhonpaj shares her perspectives on the challenges faced by young farmers and farmers of color, as well as her reasons for hope. Part of the solution lies in programs such as Big River Farms, an incubator run by The Food Group that teaches organic farming to people from historically underrepresented communities, and food hubs such as The Good Acre, which connects local food producers to the Twin Cities food system. Mhonpaj believes replicating these types of programs with resources from the Headwaters Community Food and Water Bill (HF1332 / SF1580) should be a priority for our state legislators.
Episode 14: In Transition, with Mhonpaj Lee
Jeff Diamond:
Hello, everyone and welcome to Nourish by MN350. I'm your host for today, Jeff Diamond, and we are coming to you from the original homeland of the Dakota and Anishinabeg peoples in what is now known as Minnesota. Today we're talking to Mhonpaj Lee who’s work in farming and real estate is creating a more just food system. To me, it's incredibly important as a climate justice advocate to try to maintain some notion of hope. We have to have hope that the battles we are fighting can be won. And we have to have hope that the future we wish to see is attainable. That's a big part of what's drawn me to the role our food system plays and changing the climate. I truly believe that the future I hope to see as possible future where a diverse mix of small to midsize farmers dominate the market, where food eaters know the people growing or raising their food or even grow their food themselves. A future where greenhouse gases are being sequestered and not emitted. And we're becoming a farmer is a reasonable, potentially even profitable life choice for young people. Yet, as I try to envision this, this future and this country moving from where we are now into that world, there's one issue that is always the hardest to work through in my mind. The median age of a farmer in the US was 57.5, as of 2017 34% of farmers were 65 or older. By some estimates, 70% of farmland in the US will change ownership over the upcoming 20 years. Where will this land go? Who will it go to? How can we reimagine new models of land ownership? Will it go to emerging immigrant and smaller midsize farmers who will understand the importance of land stewardship to our program or future? Or will it go to major international corporations without any ties to our local communities? How can these folks even make a living farming if they want to right now? How will they afford the land considering how expensive prices are currently? Will the farmers of the future display the diversity that we see in the US as a whole? Or will they look like the farmers of today, of whom about 96% are white.
I'm joined today by an expert who can help me explore this critical facet of the future of our food system. Mhonpaj Lee is many things to many people. She's a real estate agent often helping farmland buyers try to navigate the complexities of FSA loans. She is a college grad with an undergrad degree in Political Science and a master's degree. She is an organizer of the Emerging Farmers Conference through Big River Farms, a 150 acre incubator farm offering guidance and mentorship to historically underrepresented farmers. She is a mother of five. She is an organic specialist with the Midwest Organic and Sustainable Education Service, or Moses, posting YouTube tutorial videos on organic farming methods. And yet if you live in Minnesota and have met or spoken with Mhonpaj, it was likely through Mhonpaj’s Garden, an organic farming endeavor owned and operated by Mhonpaj and her mom. Mhonpaj’s Garden is a fixture at Twin Cities farmers markets and they also operate a CSA program with 150 members. Her parents immigrated to the US from Laos and are part of the Hmong community in Minnesota. As a successful Land Steward and community supporter Mhonpaj represents exactly what we should be looking for in the farmers of the future. And I'm thrilled to have her here with us today. Mhonpaj, thank you for joining us and being here with us today.
Mhonpaj Lee:
Thank you for having me on. And that was a long list there.
Jeff Diamond:
Well, it's a long list of things that you do and contribute. So thank you for everything you do. So I'd like to start out today by giving you a chance to talk about the pathway that led you towards farming. And you know, if you could start off by talking a little about Mhonpaj’s Garden, how did your family first get into farming in Minnesota?
Mhonpaj Lee:
Yeah, I want to thank you guys for allowing me this opportunity to share my story. We had started farming when we were very young, and my parents were refugees here to the United States in the 1980s. And they had initially we didn't know about organic farming, we just knew that we needed to raise food because we had a big family, we had a family of eight, and didn't ever know that we were considered low income or living in poverty, but we lived in the projects over by Mt. Erie. And that was like a way of life. And I remember us driving to Inver Grove Heights. And then that was all like fields. And the land owners would rent out like little acre plots for us to just raise stuff. And so that's how we started farming. It was a way of life. So we raised everything, until we were younger, all the way up until I went to college, we always rented land. The year that we transitioned to organic farming was when my husband then boyfriend worked for Big River Farms. And he had applied for a job and he got the job. And he said, Hey, you know, you should consider your parents renting from Big River Farms. They teach organic farming for immigrant population and transition them in careers of farming. And so I mentioned it to my parents. So in 2008, we transitioned over and it was quite a surprise. Our family never knew about organic farming, it was kind of like, every time we had pest issues, we would go to the Home Depot and they would hand you like some roundup or something to like get rid of pests. And like they never told you that there was like an another way of farming. So the Big River Farms was a training program about two to four years of training. And supposedly they want you to buy land and transition back then. But we just were like, never transitioned. We were like the married couple that never graduated from the program. And we were there from 2008 till now. So two years ago, my husband and I decided to make the huge leap of faith to like buy our own farmland. And so now we were in transition. In Hugo, Minnesota, we bought 20 acres.
Jeff Diamond:
That's great. Congratulations on that. So you didn't plan to work on farming at first growing up with your family. You didn't plan to work in farming when you were in college and grad school in it. It wasn't the first career that you pursued afterwards. So could you talk a little about some of the some of the other paths that you pursued? And then what motivated you to come back to farming? And ultimately, you know, give it a full shot?
Mhonpaj:
Yeah, yeah. To be quite honest, when we were younger, um, it was like, hard work. And so all of us knew that we like, you should not be a farmer, you know, because it's hard work. You know, while all the other kids were like vacationing or they would be camping, or they would do fun things in the summer. We were out in the field, like working hard, you know? And I would be like, and I could still remember like waking up really early in the morning. And going there like five, six o'clock and we pack food. You know, we would like cook the rice and cook the the the the, you know, the deep fried meats and the vegetables and the boiled stuff. And we would just like have plates for everybody to eat and we always ate the farm and that was like the best thing you look forward to is like eating at the farm and like it wasn't the labor and if you had to go you're really tired but you're like oh my gosh, I have to wake up like five Six o'clock in the morning, go there, and everyone else was having fun. And during the summer, the kids would come back and said, Oh, my parents took me to, like, waterpark, or, you know, they would come back with like, Cool gifts from Disney and, you just never knew that there was like, another way of life, you know? So yeah, I was highly like, our parents, you know, encouraged us to go get a college education and that we shouldn't be farmers because, you know, the American dream is that you should become a doctor or lawyer or have a good job. And, and we knew one thing that we wanted to, like, work in air condition to know like, there was no air conditioning in the summertime. So like, you're always hot out there and sweating. But, we were all such good, good kids. And, you know, we were obedient. You know, we listened, we didn't question our parents, So yeah, I went to college. And I was like, all right, went right into what you're saying pre law, political science major. And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go into college. And I remember when I was 14, I volunteered at the Science Museum in Minnesota. And I went in and I interviewed and they're like, how old are you? And I'm like, I'm 14, but I could do it. And I worked there for about 10 years. So the new gallery now like the human body gallery, I'm the little girl that talks to you in the dinosaurs and fossils. I had a ponytail with huge glasses and I talk about like trilobites, you know, so I memorize all of the entire Museum, my favorite was like the revolving exhibits and they had like the Hmong house inside the gallery inside. And I remember going through every level and greeting every single guest, you know, 1000s of guests coming in, and I was considered a visitor assistant, and we develop some of those. And that just really, I think, empowered me too and my dad never encouraged me to - that we were any less than boys. I think all the boys and the girls were raised the same. You learn how to butcher you learn how to cook:responsibility was fair, you know, like, the girls weren’t the only one’s always cooking So he actually allowed me to join scouting. And so I had traveled the world that way. We fundraised every year, I remember we were the Metrodome manager. And we would fundraise for a nonprofit called Venture Crew Six, and we fundraised a trip to go to Thailand to go back and see our country. And my mom and my grandma went with us. And they took us through the mountains and talked about Hmong herbs.
He just allowed us to do everything sports, and he would have that one car and he would transport us everywhere in the midst of farming. And I just feel like that has made me who I am today. And going to college, I came out and I said, Alright, I'm not going to go do that. I'm going to go into I traveled to this country in Honduras. And they there's a village called [Urato China], And I was just thinking about my parents. I was like, wow, like, we can really live sustainably and, and I my my major was political science, but I kind of fell out of love and was went into advocacy and developed my own major into health education, health fitness, and I also gained a lot of weight from eating a lot of pastas and pizza in my diet. I was in a total like culture shock. And it just kept me like coming back in a full circle. Like, everything had to do with like food justice, and everything had to do with like my weight gain. And this like therapy that I was going through on like, how to come to my authentic self. And as much as you want it to go away, like this Honduras trip, I was like, I'm gonna take this trip, and escape everything for J-erm. And I'm gonna go learn about like, all of the science behind how policies affect poverty. And guess what that was like the number one solution was like agriculture.So there's this recurring theme throughout my entire life.
I went to work for Hennepin County Medical Center right after undergrad.So then I become a Hmong interpreter, and I was atCounty Medical Center for five years. And I just felt so unethical because I would see people with mental health issues, and they would like hand over pills or cancer patients where they tell you Oh, now you have cancer now you should eat organic foods.
So I did that for five years. And my husband, I decided to take the leap of faith. And we said, you know, let's go into a career where we can both be together. And we went into financial advising because we said, Hey, we need to learn about our finances, we're running around in a circle. And I went into sushi school. So I flew out to California and opened up a sushi restaurant. And him and I just basically took a leap of faith and decided to be self employed. And we did that for a few years. But I always managed the farm business for my parents, even though Wherever I am, I was always there for them.
And then I went back to school for my masters. And I was like, hey, maybe this is leadership, I wanted to teach other businesses how to become their authentic self, and how you empower someone to find themselves. And so I did my leadership study. In at the Hennepin County Medical Center, I was facing a lot of the board members not being reflective of the population. So like if we had about we had about 70 different languages that uses the hospital. But we didn't have anyone that sat on the the board that was the person of color that represented it. So I said I should go and talk about this. And you know, maybe empower people at the hospital to incorporate this diversity. But a lot of these populations love agriculture too. And they didn't have anyone to navigate them through the system.
And I was like, and I was back again, navigating people through like your cultural resources and routing them to social services resources for that, um, that I came back full circle, went into business in partnership with Primerica and we taught families how to like health, how to have their family be healthy by budgeting and reaching financial independence through like protecting their family and learning about budgeting and like getting out of debt. And we taught them how to snowball so that people can get out of debt and become homeowners. So while all of this I was trying to find land for our family to transition because they were talking about possibly taking the land away from we had a private owner and we might not we don't own the land at Big River Farms. So our family always had anxiety that if somebody buys it out, we're not going to have land to raise our food at anymore. And my mom had you know, she couldn't get a job because she didn't know a lot of English and she applied for all these jobs. And all she knew is farming, you know. So she just didn't have anywhere else to go.
So then we ended up into after going through all those careers and partnership, my husband and I came to an awakening this last year during COVID, we just sat down and said, How do we want to raise our family because our kids are being homeschooled, they're not going to school. And we said, we want our kids to raise up having a good work ethic and learning about farming. So him and I just took a leap of faith again,and we said I went back and we're big reforms of last year and help them coordinate the Emerging Farmers Conference. And I just said, let's just do it I'm going to quit my big river farms job and just become a full time realtor and and full time farmer. So we did that last year, and I help now families, the land that I got into realtors couldn't work with me anymore because I didn't have a pre approval. So after 10 years of searching, no realtors was probably willing to work with me. So my piece of land, I had to get my own real estate license, and I bought it myself. And it was kind of funny, because when I went in for the purchase agreement, they're like, who's buying it? And I said myself, and they said, who's representing you? And I said myself. So while I didn't agree with the price, I was negotiating with the listing agent, he's like, well, I said, let me consult myself first. And I'll get back to you it’s kind of funny. It's like, and then he's like, Okay, well, I'll give you like a day and get back to me about why you know, this price should be fixed. And I did some research and we bought a piece of land with some wetland, which I wanted the diversity with prairie lands and a creek running through it because of the mushrooms possibly growing in the future and the diversity they would bring to the farm. But we face every uphill battle, we didn't have a road, we didn't have fencing, we didn't have a well, and my husband and I put all of that up within the last four months. e had to fundraise for a road. We had to get loans to buy a tractor because we had 20 acres now. And no one was willing to drive out to like, till our fields for us. So we had all of this that had to continue to grow. So when I went into farming this year, there was a drought and everything you can think of and I am a full time real estate agent too. So I'm helping other farmers, I have two farmers right now who are looking to buy land, who I'm also helping them navigate through the resources and I work on a small development project in the city on affordable housing. It's a $55 million build for owner who speaks Hmong and wanted to transition this lot that he owned to find more housing for the, you know, homeless issues right now in the Twin Cities. And so I just have my hands in all things and I feel that since I'm still alive and right now developments moving into our back lot, and all the animals are coming in to our backlot so like the beavers and the coyotes and yesterday we saw some baby Road Runners in our lot and we have snakes and we have ticks and everything you could think of I just thought about it and I told my husband I said you know we might be the last frontier you know because all the developments moving in and we're like the only agriculture lot we've got like the the horse farmers off to the front and then we've got the the cattle farmers down from us. But we're like the block before it's like agriculture and then development in Hugo and we look at all those houses every day and we want a house in our lot and we joke like, why don't we just you know, we went to the builders there and asked them if they could put up something for us and they were so busy, we can't build for you. So we had a shop for a different builder.
But anyways, long story short, um that's where we're at now, you know, after my husband and I - and to let you know we inherited all of my brothers, my brother in laws after my father in law passed away so we have a family of 15 and him and I are trying to get ahead in life and also supporting them and they supporting us. And my parents you know, wanting to retire them and yet they're still farming and so I think it's just beautiful that farming has recovered a lot of us who have anxiety has brought all of our relationships together. And and that there's a patient there's a reward, like things aren't instant and instantaneous and I feel like our kids, future generation has to learn that so yeah, so that's that's where I'm at today I am in the midst of this I have five kids and balancing I remember going to get my master's degree and then coming home to farm at night and then going to college. And it just is just I don't know how we did it and we moved every two years renting and renting and I joke with everyone I'm like, I'm a realtor, I get everybody into homes, and I have to get myself into homes, you know. But this year, I have the most first time homebuyers. I've got about, I want to say over 50 families into homes that have not owned homes. And I'm working with two or three farmers to own their own farmland. And I just believe that this fight has to continue and that our future generations' farming is not very attractive.
Mhonpaj:
You know, it's hard work. It's remember, yesterday, to be quite honest, I was out there till 12 o'clock, harvesting French breakfast, and washing them all the 200 bunches of them for a CSA tomorrow. So it's a lot of hard work. And, and I don't know, if the younger generation could hold up, like our parents, my dad's 70 years old, still able to do it. And here, we're, we're in our 30s and can't even catch up to him.
Jeff Diamond:
So along those lines mean, you talked a lot about the benefits that you get out of farming, but also all the hard work that that goes into it. And also, you know, the extensive background that you had, and how big of a role that it played in your life and all of the guidance that you got from your parents. So would you advise other young adults to pursue a life of farming if they were interested, you know, especially if they if they didn't necessarily have your background and expertise? Do you see farming as a as a viable option for young adults?
Mhonpaj Lee:
for the younger generation, I always say, you know, what, in this lifetime, like, what's your why, you know, I do a class on like, let's define like, what motivates you what gets you going everyday? And if that, why is one business idea if even if it's not your culture, and you have this, you want to, like do kimchi, or you want to pilot this idea, if you gave it a shot, you know, just a shot. And if it worked out, and you have the right coaching, you should do it, you know, and I, the reason why I went into financial advising is I wanted to teach people how to pursue their side hobbies, and make agriculture become a reality for them. So I, I would highly encourage one is join something like an incubator, like what we have where you can kind of pilot your ideas for one to two years. So if you want to do a CSA, or if you want to, like, do a goat farm, or whatever it is, and eventually I want to move into that for my farm. It's like, I just want to be the incubator farm for the farmers who want to pilot their ideas. So let's say we have 20 acres, and I can give each person two acres. And you come out here and you experiment, to see if this is your niche. Maybe it's not like I had one guy friend who's like, I thought I was gonna become a goat farmer, and then I went to land stewardship. And I found out I like the advocacy part, but I don't think I want to be the farmer, you know. And so I was like, I love that and Land Stewardship did that for him
Jeff Diamond:
Is Land Stewardship Project you're referring to?
Mhonpaj Lee:
Yeah, yep. Yep. And so he went through that, and then also Big River Farms. It's like, I've been for 15 years. And I figured, first, we did wholesale accounts. And I'm like, No, that's like a lot of work demanding. Remember, Chipotle, we they're buying those bell peppers from us. And one year, like our bell peppers didn't look good at all, and they returned the entire truck. And I was like, well, that's high risk, you know, um, and then we did restaurants where like, they could pick everything, but because of COVID We lost all of our restaurants accounts earlier, in the beginning, and now it's having a comeback. And also, I think there's like, business is different every part of the year. And if you're a young entrepreneur, and you're really thinking like, you know what, like, I really love farming or you have a green thumb or you really think you have an idea. I say just do it, you know, like, do it and somehow things work and I'd have a part time job like I've always had like a part time career, like real estate or being a financial advisor or I felt like that Hand in hand gave me still income to generate your idea. So like, do it part time until you can generate your idea. And, and the thing is, some people don't even have the opportunity to have land to generate their ideas, so they can never have that happen. So like, I feel that more incubator farms need to happen. Like, as soon as I'm getting people to buy land, I want to train them on saying, okay, you have like, 20, maybe you could share five, you know, and pilot their ideas. So I just really feel that there's not enough incubator farms like Big River Farms or Land Stewardship. Or LEDC, Latino Economic Development Center, or there's many other organizations that that do it. And I think University Minnesota, I talked to them, and they're trying to do a career, kinda like where you you, they can intern at different farms. So let's say if you want to be a deer farmer, or you want to be a mixed organic farmer, you can kind of do internships, and then they actually have classes. And I don't know if they got that now licensed, but I feel like that should be a track for those were her young. So I really believe that, like, people don't have startup, you know, like, I didn't have startup. So being at Big River Farms, they had all the infrastructure, they had a tractor they had, you know, fencing, they had all of that there. So I was able to pilot my ideas. So yes, for those who want to go into it, I would say join something like Big River Farms, put in your application, and see if, you know, see if it's for you first, because what if you find out like, you, you love it, but maybe you're really good at herbs, you know, or, or maybe you just like to do value add part, you know, over the time, I started finding my niche where I was, like, I'm a really good marketer, like, I feel like my niche in the farming business, like I love the talking to people, and I love the social, but my mom was really good at production, you know, she's now the bigger farms manager, you know, and my husband, he's really good with carpentry. So he, you can put up the like, the high tunnels in the and work the tractors and the irrigation system, he has the brains and the networks for that. And everyone brings our own strength. And I feel that like, now we're kind of coming together, but there has to be an identification of your Strengths Finder, in kind of the beginning of your career so that you can know where you want to go to and you need to pilot those ideas.
Jeff Diamond:
Yeah, I can totally identify with that just kind of following what reaches out to you. And I, I myself was in a nine to five day job for like 13 to 14 years and and left it to pursue a passion and pursue my interests and a new that I was broadly interested in focusing on climate justice in some way and literally went to an entire meeting with with mn 350 not really knowing, you know, can with different directions in mind thinking maybe I'll work on pension divestment, things like that. And I just went to an intro meeting of the food systems team, where everyone seemed amazing. And it was something that I had a little background in was interested in as a vegetarian, and, and I just, you know, I had no interest in pursuing food systems, you know, with my life and as my passion and just, this one meeting was with this wonderful group of people, I was just blown away and thought, yeah, this is, this is what I want to do next, this is the direction I want to go. And so yeah, I think that's very true. You just need to listen, you just need to follow where the path that you're led down and what your passions are leading you towards. Um, so yeah, I think that's, I think that's, that's amazing advice. Um, you know, along those lines, I think, and I'd love to, I'd love to hear a little bit more about because, obviously, you farm organically and have regenerative principles within your farming methods. And I would love to hear a little bit more about that in a little bit. But just before that, as we you know, as we were talking about young farmers going into farming, you know, I think as I talked about in my intro, there are these two different realities going forward in terms of how people who find our land are going to farm and so for young farmers or new farmers, you know, do you think that they will make that choice to be good land stewards to to farm in a regenerative way?And do you think that you know, developing incubators like that can lead to young farmers who care more about the land and about the about climate justice and and both Hello, regenerative farming practices.
Mhonpaj Lee:
I find it very interesting because one of our graduates, which is dawn to dusk, and Moses Momanyi and Lonah, they are now up north. And they did, they became an incubator farm, they're kind of inspiration to me, and we all kind of joined the program at the same time. And they have one of their graduates from their program, now selling at Mill City Farmers Market, and also selling to wholesalers. And, and yesterday, Lake Winds came and did a show on us because they had given us money for a grant funding for some of our fencing costs in our culvert. And they told me that one of the graduates from their their program, Sonia farms or something like that, is down the road from us at Lino Lakes. So to your point, that was like one prime example of like, how one graduate from Big River Farms is now an incubator, and that trickle effect. So that, to me was like a live example of how this stuff works. You know, like before, I was like, I don't even know if that incubator thing is gonna work. Like we're here for 15 years, we haven't transitioned yet. I don't know if any of our graduates are going to make it and Moses is so genius that he thought of the idea like why don't I just teach other people, you know? you know, now I'm looking at him like, Oh, yeah, I'm really exhausted and burned out to why don't I just teach a bunch of other people to come help me. And then I helped them and we could not be burned out, you know. So this cooperative idea, I feel like is where the pooling of energies need to come to. And Katie Kubovcik through the Land Access Navigator Program that I also went through is through Renewing The Countryside, you know, they also are working on that to like, access people who are looking for land and people who have land access each other, you know, so she's actively looking, you know, and if I find any land that I know is available, that's good for agriculture, I kind of go to her to and say, are you working with any groups? because not a lot of people know about Lnd Access Navigator. So I try to educate people about that, too.
So yeah, you're, you're right. Like, if you're, if you're thinking about it, there's all these resources, right, that nobody knows about, you know, like, no one knows the NRCS gives out like, my husband, like, started telling me last night, did you know that NRCS was able to put in a well for them. And I was like, Oh, we financed that, you know, so. And we've been in farming and we thought we knew all the resources. So there's always like, resources that you don't know about that could probably help launch you . So I'm optimistic but I don't want to paint this beautiful picture to everyone and be like come into farming and you're going to make all this income and you're going to have a CSA, like not everything pans out that way you know and and if you don't have the support, we have a generational family living together so think about there's like 15 of us like sporadically volunteering our time all the time.
That's a lot of time you know with in comparison to two people so you have to also look at your time and so yeah, it is feasible. I think like younger people who want to go into it, I do see that it's more attractive to offer those who are smaller, I feel like they're moving into the small scale farming. As far as big scale farming. I hear more stories of like people not wanting to inherit their parents farm like you know, like their parents are now retiring and I'm seeing a lot of land as I'm selling stuff it’s going to like somebody else totally different from their, their culture or their group. It's probably more of like I see like more of my Hmong farmers wanting to buy land because they're wanting to live together. So I'm getting phone calls where it's like My mom, my dad, and me and my sister and brother all want to like buy this piece of land together, you know? And I'm like, Okay, cool. So I'm finding one right now where they're like, that was like 325,000. But if all of them buys it together, it's only like $10,000 each, or $20,000 each. And there's 10 of them on a loan or pooling their savings together. So I feel like this whole idea of cooperative is happening, like in a family, why is in it's happening, just not in the predominant culture, you know, it's everywhere. And so how is this such a surprising love in this market, I'm seeing like, farms, like fly off the market, within two days like that, that's going to I don't know, if it's two families, I don't know the statistics. But I know that we're looking and we're missing out on opportunities. So back, like two years ago, farmers would sit on the market for I want to say 30 days to like 60 days, and no one comes and buys it, no one can afford it. And now people are realizing I can sell my house. And there's like this huge wave, being a real estate agent.
I mean, I'm seeing this huge wave of like, stuff families who've always wanted to live in the country and have a hobby farm. And tractors are selling like crazy, you know, like, we went and like we were on trying to shop for one for us. And we're trying to buy used and the dealers are trying to even the dealers who are buying used are having a hard time finding inventory. And john deere was telling me, he's like, we're backed up for two years, and our john deere stocks are going up. And so I'm like, what's going on, and he's like, you know, everyone's all of a sudden wants to be a farmer, you know, with COVID. And with like, Oh, I can just tell this up in the back of my yard. So they're seeing more like, and of course, lumber prices are going up, people are wanting to do also their small side projects, right. Um, and I see, I see that, that people are kind of being inspired to having their own kind of like, backyard, you know, deal. And then, um, and because they don't have access to land, they're like doing it on their rooftops, or just being really creative with creative, and maybe not as a career. So I feel that there is more intention now about it in the younger community. And there's a lot of interest in and to be quite honest, to have two clients out of my doesn't have clients who are interested and younger, into farming to me is like, okay, there are a few individuals who are still looking, you know, to go into it. So to your questions, I have never not done a statistics or surveys or polls, I can't answer that question. But according to my experience, as of yesterday, I want to say I did have meeting the person at BFG being younger, um, you know, having some new vendors at our, you know, and then being in the Big River Farms and having younger farmers joining. And I do see that with COVID has been really sad. But I've seen all of our older farmers either passed away this last year. So we've lost a lot of vendors that does downtown St. Paul farmers market. So I don't know if that answered them. And I feel like people are going into retirement. I see a lot of the farmers who are in farming deciding to retire this year. Like somehow it's like, I feel like this has been like the epitome year where it's like, I'm gonna just retire you know, and, and sell my land. And because it's really high right now, this is the right time to sell because I'll get the most value. So I see a lot of people exiting their farmland and like liquidating, up north, so I changed my oil twice in one month. Because I drove so much people out of North that's like a two hour drive to like sandstone to pine city to like, you know, everywhere north or everywhere South building houses and getting them farmland or, or, or the communities I work with one, at least five to 10 acres is specifically the monk and the diverse communities that I'm working with.
Jeff Diamond:
Yeah, no, that's, that's very encouraging to hear and I just love the way that you think through all these issues, and it seems like you've always got so many game plans and and, and ideas about what the next steps are and the next steps after that. And I think,, that kind of thinking is really what's going to be needed to create this future in which it is, you know, young farmers getting into the industry and a focus on smaller and mid scale firms.
Jeff Diamond:
Now we'd like to talk a little bit about how your work focuses on climate justice and helps to create a regenerative food system, as well as the role that you see for yourself and for young farmers within that system. So could you talk about some of the regenerative farming practices that you've used in your farming practices.
Mhonpaj Lee:
Yeah, we are certified organic. So regenerative to us means that we're taking care of the soil on the land. This year is a first year breaking the ground over by our new lot in Hugo, it basically means you're crop-rotating for pest management, you know you're planting cover crops at the end of the year, you're being very intentional about the lay of the land. And this year, we tried to do less tilling on the land. So we do more mulches and the irrigations like drip irrigation, so that way we can like read the irrigation later and just maybe till in between the rows instead of using beds that are bigger,you know, taking your excess and composting with it, right, there's like a big compost bin that Big River Farms that we used so it's a entire strategy, where everything is being recycled again in the environment. We planted sunflowers this year for the sunflower field, and that brings in the birds and the bees. And so it's just this whole holistic approach of farming.we generate a lot of food, like 50,000 pounds of food every year for just food shelves, you know, that's not even counting the sales for CSAs and so on five acres of feed, I remember last year, the food shelves couldn't take food anymore, And, it just shows to me that we can feed a lot of people for the last 15 years, we've been donating like 20 to 50,000 pounds of food. that, to us just shows that per acre if you maximize your growing and your succession planting that you can create that you know, so like once something goes over, you can put something else on top. And you don't need a lot of acreage. So like we've been operating off like five acres or less. So some people think, oh, you need like 50 acres in order to feed a community?
Jeff Diamond:
But of course, any outdoor farm is going to have limits on what can be sustained. And as we're seeing this year, Minnesota has seen very little rain and has some very severe heat waves and seems like there may be another one coming up. So how have your farming ventures held up during this challenging season? And, and you know, if you could talk a little about how your farming methods have helped compared to more conventional farmers.
Mhonpaj Lee:
So yeah, it has hit the production. I think I feel that my smaller 0.5 acre farmers, for some reason, their stuff is like, so much nicer, like I see them, like because they're able to care for it and like put water on it over and over in there. But for us, it's because we had so much to manage, I feel that we still had production, but we saw a decrease in production, like the cucumbers kind of scarred, you know, so then we didn't have as much picking and so yes, this year, the sun, the drought, the heat affected our workers, we couldn't be out there for long periods of time because it was so hot, that we don't want people to go and experience heatstroke or like health wise become dehydrated. So we were very careful about being out in the sun for long periods of time and taking a lot of breaks and drinking a lot of water and electrolytes. But yeah, so this year, we were greatly affected, we have a low production of everything. Um, but we're still able to bring I want to say about per week we average about we still average, we still feed about 150 I want to say about, let's say $4,000 worth of sales a week, if that's how much production that we can create that not all that we we sell, we donate, like usually half of that. Even smaller farmers like the point two, five acres one like smaller than what we had, I feel like five, eight years, we're still really, really hard to manage in the weather, especially well this year for us that we were transitioning, right. So we didn't have irrigation up, we didn't have any of this infrastructure up. So we're putting what bigger farms have together in like four months on top of trying to, like grow everything right. Um, and I would say that the heat did get we were on Sahan Journal, they wrote an article about how this is affected are growing in Yeah, I talked about how the season like stuff went to bolt really fast. Because if it's too hot, then your, your vegetables just go straight to bolting,
Jeff Diamond:
Could you talk about what bolting is just for?
Mhonpaj Lee:
So bolting basically means like, it gets old really soon and in a short amount of time, and then you can't consume it because it's like hard now, it's not tender. So then it flowers.
So this year our neighbor's well droughted, And so he didn't have any water he had to tap into our well, because we our well’s a little bit deeper than his. And so like we kept watering, but, you know, we were like, did we deplete his well? Because we watered so much. But they were projecting on the news the other day that like to catch up to what we had drought is gonna take two full weeks of heavy rain, you know what I mean? And so at a constant rate, and I'm like, well, that's probably not going to happen for a long time.
Jeff Diamond:
So you had mentioned a grant that was geared towards historically socially disadvantaged groups. And, you know, that made me think of the USDA American Rescue Plan Act grants that were supposed to be issued, and that were in the process of being issued. And then these lawsuits were brought about by by white farmers who were claiming discrimination. I think you had mentioned that you had applied for that or you were involved with that?
Mhonpaj Lee:
Yeah, yep. So we actually were one of the recipients. They had sent us a letter stating that we're one that we're going to be forgiven. And then now, everything's all up in the air. So we're not sure if it's going to happen. Because Yeah, you're right, there was a bunch of white farmers said that they were discriminated against because of the lack, like the resources weren't fairly, you know, um, you know, going to be fairly accounted for them to and they fall under that group, and that we should redefine that definition. So, it would have really helped us I was telling my husband is that we didn't have any ancestors to like, hand us, you know, give us a front step into it. So everything has been financed, and we yet don't have a house in the lot and we're trying to get that financed and so you're constantly paying bills and getting it out that I think that would go a really long way. a lot of the older farmers that I talked to said that this happens all the time. You know, it's not a new thing that, like they would say they would give a program.
And because of where historically, you've always never had the resources and let alone to get a FSA. you have to be disqualified from traditional lender to get it. So then when you look at the system, and if you look at anyone who doesn't speak English, you have to realize that those who don't know how to speak English is constantly having to go through this, this system where you're not sure if you're ever going to have access to these resources. So you know, I think I spoke perfect English and I went through this process of applying for the loan. Right and and let alone like, again, it took me 10 years, right, I applied for the loan, I needed two years of farming experience. And then now I'm coming back to this idea of re evaluating where I was in finding the resources I had to go become the financial advisor I had to become the realtor, you know, and imagine those who don't have those resources, who they would go to. So I think that's where I'm going is that these policies that they put in place.
I feel like the system has been set up for you to not almost can never attain land because I thought if anybody wasn't able to become a realtor like me and, and go know how to negotiate a contract. And then through FSA, if they didn't know, they had to get disqualified. So how do you get this qualified for a loan and then get qualified, right? Like, you have to show that you're successful, but you're not successful that your credit score, you know, it was high enough, but not high up, and, and I fell right into that I got disqualified just, and then I got qualified, you know, so how does somebody navigate that, you know? So I don't know, I just feel that I don't know whose side to take, or beside the beyond, but I just want to express that, what I might call for help is we need to look into this issue, and have our legislators and our key influence people and our community members, you know, and families and, and small entrepreneurs, like everyone needs to look at this issue very great. And we need to put it on a plastered wall and say this is what's currently happening and paint that picture. But think about it, I said if they just helped us offset just that cost, think about the potential of what we can do, right? Like, we're already feeding 50 to 100,000 people a year, you know, and if they offset that we could possibly put up a pole barn to, you know, now put in all our infrastructure and put a cooler on site, you know, so that way, we're not driving back and forth like that, like a small little offset like that would increase our production and increase more food in the community. but I'm just thinking, wow, like, there's a need for food and, and production for all of the communities in agriculture. And if that wording needed to be added on to that, or, you know, how much of a struggle or like, what are we going through? And what are we all experiencing?
That's where I am, my struggle every day is like we were direct beneficiaries, but everything's always and it's always like this, every time we're gonna get a resource. Someone has to say something, and then the resources get cut, and we're back to square one again, you know, and so it'll, and people told me don't even count on it, right? Well, my older farmers who are in farming business who are, you know, minority or disassociated? They're like, you know, this is not new, right? And I was like, Oh, I thought this is like a new thing this year that just happened that someone's fighting like no, they would say they would give us programs, and the programs never come through.
Jeff Diamond:
And it's just so frustrating because, you know, reading through the lawsuit that was filed, there's just so many frustrating things about it. I mean, one it was, it's here. It was filed in Minnesota
Mhonpaj:
Correct and went to Wisconsin, right?
Jeff Diamond:
Yeah, it was, like, you know, many of the farmers were our Minnesota or local Minnesota farmers.
I mean, as I talked about, in my intro, you know, we've got about 96% of farmers in this country are white, whereas it used to be, you know, about 80%, which is still not representative of the country, but it used to be lower, and it's gotten all the way up to 96% of our farmers are white, and it's it's no accident. And we've had historical policies like ongoing genocides of indigenous nations and the Homestead Act of 1862. And, and federal farm bills that have prioritized policies that help white wealthy, large scale farmers. And things like heir property rules that, that make it easier for for farms to be split apart and sold off. And yeah, it's just, it's just frustrating within that context for them to then say, well, this program requires strict scrutiny.
Jeff Diamond:
So in this last section, we're gonna give our calls to action. MN350 is an activist organization, and we believe that supporting Mhonpaj’s work is vital to our mission, as is supporting statewide initiatives that will help to build a more resilient, regenerative and inclusive food economy. So along those lines here at MN350, we're supporting a piece of legislation called the Headwaters Bill, which would provide the funding and infrastructure for a resilient, inclusive and regenerative food economy. This bill has gathered a lot of momentum in the most recent legislative session, there is a senate companion bill first introduced and a total of 17 legislators joining as co-authors. Have you had a chance to review the bill? And you know, what are your thoughts on this bill from coming at it from the perspective of a farmer?
Mhonpaj Lee:
Yes, um, I definitely believe that, um, taking care of the water is one of the most important thing So everything that Headwaters Bill is talking about, and what we're doing here today is so crucial that our waterways and our soil is so important because pretty soon there's not going to be a lot of it that we can use and we have to realize that we're slowly deteriorating the the health of our environment. And this bill, to be honest, as I was telling Jeff, we had like a shortage it wasn't because they couldn't use the food. It's because the food shelves didn’t have capacity to take our foods last year, during COVID, we actually had a great year of production. And we were bringing foods to the food shelves, you know, and they're saying we can only handle 250 poundswe can't take any more zucchinis and we can't take any more cucumbers. because that stuff is high production. So when you talk about the inequities of access to food, and you say, well, there's hungry people, there's not enough food, well, then why are so many farmers out there who are farming this year, who has excess that I know of, specifically in the Hmong community, that's not getting to people's hands, you know, they're bringing all what they have. And they're bringing all their food back home, you know, my friend who's farming right now, and she also works for the state with me, she had to bring, all the vegetables home, like, everyone had so much produce at the farmers market that like she brought all her food home. So my question to the our state legislator and local authorities and everyone in leadership is to say, why are we having an overproduction issue and, and still a hunger issue. And The Food Group, the good acre has figured that out, you know, after we have been saying we need more markets, we need more markets, and the one program they did was talk with Second Harvest and start buying intentionally from farmers and a food hub. The only resolution to this is the state needs to it should not be a nonprofit, or possibly a for profit. But in this case, they are. And it's great that these nonprofits are stepping into the role, because there is a need and a demand. And there is a model that we need to look at these best practices that are currently happening, and research
So I urge you guys to read and to come and question what's happening and I want you to drive on over here in Washington County, and I want you to drive south, you're going to see a bunch of little farmers, specifically Hmong farmers on a quarter acre plot. And you're going to question where do they take those excess food, they can't take them to the farmers market. And then now I want the state to research what happens to those food after they're done with it. Every family has 2 freezers full of vegetables. And our communities specifically, no one can go hungry because we have family that have access to a quarter of a rented land from a farmer or from me or from someone who can farm. but let's do the math you guys, how many of these Hmong farmers own land? All of them are still renting, majority of them are still renting. So why do they not have land yet? I90% of our farmers at the downtown St. Paul farmers market are Hmong. if you can tell me that it's predominantly Hmong or a person of color, you know West Liberian any other color if, if that is 90% of that is of this ethnicity. And then let's now go look at the resources and see where the food hubs that support them are. There is zero other than The Food Group and the Good Acre right now in the state of Minnesota. And so other food hubs are now researching, what is The Food Group doing? How do we become like them? How do we access food? So now let's go and research that. And if this is truly happening, and it is already a best model, and we already have the facts, shouldn't it be a state and a responsibility? Shouldn't it be Jeff, I don't understand why, why we elect these elected officials, and no one is choosing to make this a priority. Nobody is. And so I want people to start questioning that responsibility is a food hub of the state to provide. the good acre has figured out how to purchase these produce from us and at a fair rate, and give it to The Food Group. And still yet the farmers are making a little bit of the cut. And if they're making that work, I urge and and if this doesn't, if this bill does not get passed through, I would like to question every one of our legislators to say why. If you vote no for this, I want to say why? And then why is it just me just one person? Or is it there are a lot of other people working on this that I don't know of that I want to I want to be on your team. I'm on your team all the way. the future generation is counting on us to make this one impact. And, and 30 years from now, when you guys look back, or 100 years from now you guys will look back, you guys will remember what I said and said Mhonpaj once said, when I'm long and gone 100 years from now, you're going to come back and said, there was a Headwaters Bill that either you made a legacy of a difference, and you voted yes. And now, there is not a food shortage here in the state of Minnesota, and we are going to be the pioneers. Or you're going to be that that legislator who said I voted no to that. And now therefore we have no food hubs, and therefore we have a food shortage. And that's why people didn't get access to food now No, you're going to choose which person you're going to be.
Now that's the question you guys need to ask, why are there still hungry children, when there's an excess of food? the state needs, this is a state mandate that people need to realize to say, this bill, you can look over, you can be busy, you're going to be busy all dalegislator? you're gonna be running from sessions and sessions, you're not gonna have time to sit down and read this bill. But when you do, you will thank the creators of this bill and say, You know what, let me give them a shot. If you give him that one shot, and if we make it and if it and it's successful, and we have about three food hubs here, you will be proud and saying, you know what I made I made a economic impacts not only on the people around me, but the waterways and the caretakers of the land, and the people who deserve it.
We're asking for a small budget, just to establish a food hub. Where are our priorities? Who are we feeding right now? And if you help, and I'm one of those children, who came from poverty, who people said you couldn't make it, Well, I'm here to say I'm here today. I was born in poverty, lived in Mount Airy. And I have my master's degree, I have a business, I have a career. So you know what, give us a chance. You give them the food hub, let them do what they do best, give them the resources and let us benefit from our economy and let us be the state to be the model that everyone comes to and says these legislators got their head on right and they've got four food hubs who can intake all this food and look at the production and look and look at all everyone being licensed and food safety you know that's where we need to go into and and every single language that you know five different languages and here are the resources for them and look at all the farmers who now have land for now producing production Now that is a success story, you guys. And so anyways,I absolutely am passionate about this bill and I didn't know that it had everything to do with me.
Jeff Diamond:
Mhonpaj, thank you so much for for those powerful words. I really appreciate everything you said. And I couldn't possibly say it any better myself. So yeah, if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, please go visit MN350.org/Headwaters. And there we have a pledge of support that you can sign and there you can go to learn how to get more involved in the Headwaters campaign. And like Mhonpaj said, you can make sure that you urge your legislators to support it. And you can tell others about it as well. And thank you as well for talking about the Good Acre. That's exactly the type of model that we have in mind when we describe the food hubs and talk about food hubs within this bill. We think they're just such a wonderful organization. And they are as a supporter of our campaign as well. so with that,are there any other projects that you'd like our listeners to know about and support?
Mhonpaj Lee:
I'm on so many projects I right now. of course, the Big River Farms. We do a lot of educational programs through that program. I'm with Moses in the upper Midwest, as you mentioned, and we do outreach on communities to engage them with we have Somali, Spanish and Hmong righ now and they're getting other languages to talk about how to become organic farmers or be a consultant in your in your community. I want to bring development that incorporates some of those cultural sensitivities to this housing development you know, we have big families - five families and to really be culturally sensitive to our development project and to bring green space to the communitiesSo that's one project I'm working on. It's called the upper rice street project. And I'm working with, we're putting focus groups together, working with Nieeta Presley and Dan Tilson and Pao Vang, who owns the lot right now. So that's one project I'm working on. I'm also in the midst of I have a farm dream, eventually to put up a structure where I host big events and big dinners, where educate people about how to eat healthy and inspire kids to want to do that. And develop a canopy. We don't have any fundings yet for that. So hopefully, my husband and I could put our heads together and how we're going to make that happen. And and eventually, to become a small incubator, I feel like our, our energies can only do so much this year, and we were spread thin. I'm a real estate agent also. So I work in helping families who are interested in farming, or just first time homebuyers find access, I was able to get people who say, they can't get a loan to getting a loan, there's a lot of discriminatory lending going on out there. So I'm a huge advocate for affordable housing. And my goal this lifetime is to make sure no one goes homeless and hungry. I call it the two H's. It’s that we live in a land of abundance.And so I believe that there's always more to eat, I always have more than enough to eat, because we make more than enough to eat and we have made more than enough to share. And the higher being has blessed us on earth to be a giver. And if you give you will have endless resources. I'm in so many groups I can't even name to be honest, Jeff. So I just want to let you know, those are some of my main projects, To be honest, I don't own a website to house all my platforms for everybody to link on, I that's one of my dream I use just mainly Facebook right now Mhonpaj’s Realtor and Consultant, I use to talk about my development projects. And then I use Mhonpaj’s Garden Facebook, for everything that goes on with the CSA or what I'm cooking with the food or like, yesterday, we just did one about Hmong herbs, my sister and I co wrote a book about how to use authentic Hmong herbs that has been lost for the generation. It's an authentic 30 days postpartum diet for a women to recover. That's one project that we're working on. I'm also working on that small development project with an ending like homeownership and affordable housing for families. So I want to thank everybody for your time, I'm supposed to be here today to meet you guys to deliver this message to the rest of the community with the power and the energy to make this happen, and that the blessing and the prayer for today is that this message be passed on, and that people take this very serious that our future generations are going to be affected if you don't take action. So this is, I don't know how Jeff found me. But I feel that the stars have aligned. And I'm here today and born on Earth, to give this message to the rest of the society. And there's only one of me. And there's a lot of us. So together we will make this happen. And so I want to thank my ancestors for bringing me here today. To meet Jeff and Shannon and LisaI believe that you meet people for a reason. And it's not a mistake that we meet today. Because our future relationship is going to be stronger, it’s more than money. And that I value every relationship for everyone listening to this podcast, that you can reach out to me as a friend or as a sister. And I will hold your hand through the process, whether you want to become an entrepreneur, or whether you want to buy a house, or whether you want to become a farmer, or whatever career that you want to. I believe that in my leadership studies that I empower people to reach your most authentic self. And so, thank you so much for this opportunity today. And I am so blessed to have met you guys.
Jeff Diamond:
Lovely and so special to hear and I really appreciate that and yeah, and the pleasure has been all ours and you know, you are only one person but you do so many amazing things and and I have no doubt that you bring people together and and lift them up. And if they're there any website designers out there who are are looking to help with a wonderful causeyou can get in touch in and try to try to organize all of the different amazing things that Mhonpaj is doing for the community. so thank you again. And so that's our show for today. Mhonpaj, thanks again for being here and discussing all of the amazing work that you're doing. And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. This has been Nourish by MN350 and we hope you'll all tune in again next time.
Lisa Chou:
Nourish by MN350 is a production of MN350’s Food Systems Team. We are changing the way people think about food production, distribution, and consumption practices within the context of rapid climate change. This series is made possible by the hard work and passion of a group of dedicated volunteers. Our executive producer is Sarah Riedl. This episode was written and produced by Lisa Chou, Shannon Lippke, and Jeff Diamond. Our sound editor for the episode is Ben Herrera. Our logo was designed by the Fizz Design Collective. Our music is by Ecuador Manta. Special thanks to Daniel Jacquette and Kate Swanson for redesigning and automating our podcast website. And you can learn more about MN350 at MN350Action.org/podcasts. Thank you, and we'll see you again next time.