How Farmers are Adapting to Climate Change

In this episode of Nourish by MN350, Mary Clare McAleer and Shannon Lippke speak with longtime farmer and MN350 board member Kurt Kimber, and University of Minnesota professor and Director of Regional Sustainable Development Partnerships (RSDP), Dr. Kathryn Draeger. Together with Sarah Riedl, they discuss what climate change looks and feels like in Minnesota, and how farmers are adapting (for better or worse) to weather extremes and growing stress on local and global food systems.

- Learn more about the University of Minnesota Extension Regional Sustainable Development Partnerships (RSDP) HERE. 

- Check out the UMN Forever Green Initiative to learn more about Kernza® and other crops HERE. Mind blown? Roam the field of this perennial grain even further HERE. 

-We need you at the polls! (Yes, you!) Visit the MN350 Action 2022 Candidate Endorsements Page to find climate champions running for office at all levels of government.

Learn more about this show at MN350Action.org/podcasts 

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Full transcript HERE

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS: Minnesota, farmers, crops, tile, food, landscape, soil, climate change, climate adaptation, Kernza®

SPEAKERS: Dr. Kathy Draeger, Kurt Kimber, Shannon Lippke, Mary Clare McAleer, and Sarah Riedl

Episode Hook:  I have to then kind of admit to myself that maybe without even naming it as climate adaptation, it is climate adaptation for these farmers who are trying to address the issue of all the standing water that was not on their fields historically but is on their fields now. I think this is something that needs a little more scrutiny and for those of us who work with farmers and sustainable development, I think we need to have some conversations about climate adaptation and that in some cases, the adaptation we're doing to climate change may actually have other cascading environmental impacts.

Sarah Riedl  01:13

Hello, and welcome back everybody. I'm your host Sarah Riedl, Communications Manager for MN350 and MN350 action. We're coming to you from the homeland of the Anishinaabeg, Dakota and Ho Chung people or what is now known as Minnesota. Today, we're going to be talking about the effects of climate change specifically on farmers here in Minnesota, how it's affecting their work, the solutions and adaptations they've made, and what it means for the folks whose livelihoods depend on the land when the conditions of that land are changing so quickly. To bring us this conversation. I'm joined by MN350 volunteers Mary Clare McAleer and Shannon Lippke. 

Mary Clare McAleer 01:51

Hi, excited to be here.

Shannon Lippke  01:52

Hi, Sarah.

Sarah Riedl  01:56

So it's good to have you both here again. Let's start by giving our audience a little background information. Earlier this year, the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released its latest report, showing that annual greenhouse gasses in the last decade were the highest in human history and that both globally and nationally, we are not on track to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius, or 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit, which is considered by climate scientists, to be that point of no return. This IPCC report is considered the last one to be released during a period where the goal to halt warming at 1.5 degrees is still possible. But it says that in order to meet that goal, we must respond with immediate and immense action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions across all sectors, including our food sector. Industrial agriculture continues to be one of the world's most climate-damaging sectors, accounting for about 25 to 30% of our total emissions. So that means that even if we were able to magically stop using all fossil fuels tomorrow in our energy and transportation sectors, but didn't make any changes to our current food system, we would still pass that 1.5-degree threshold.

Shannon Lippke  03:17

That's right. And there are no exceptions to climate change for Minnesota. Actually, I didn't really know this before doing research for this episode, but Minnesota is one of the fastest-warming states in the country. Over the last 100 years, our average temperature has risen three degrees Fahrenheit, the national average has risen two degrees. The most notable changes are happening in northern Minnesota, where winter lows are 7.3 degrees warmer on average. Our summers are also hotter and longer. The official growing season is now about 16 days longer than it was in 1970, and the growing zones which are determined by the USDA, and some people know them as plant hardiness maps, well, they've shifted much of Minnesota from zone three to zone four back in 2012. Partly because of these winter low increases. Projected maps show half of the state shifting to zone five during this current measuring period, which is tracked through 2040. Minnesota summers are also becoming wetter. Statewide annual precipitation has increased about 3.4 inches in Southeast Minnesota, increasing twice that amount.

Mary Clare McAleer 04:36

Now for a state that's known for its intense winters. Maybe it sounds nice to have warmer weather and a longer growing season. But another trend we're seeing is our weather patterns are simply becoming less predictable, creating more variability and more intense storms. For example, we're seeing more mega rains, where six or more inches of rain can fall in a single event. And yet last summer in 2021 we had record-breaking heat and low precipitation rates, which contributed to a season-long drought and uncontained wildfires in the Arrowhead region and into Canada.

Sarah Riedl  05:08

I remember that. And we've heard this from a few of our guests in the past. I remember, for example, Mhonpaj Lee, a small-scale organic farmer and food activist talking about how the drought was affecting her and her neighbor's crops in August of last year. That was our episode, titled “In Transition.” Just for a little context, as we're recording this in the middle of June, it's already about 100 degrees outside so it's here.

Shannon Lippke  05:33

Yeah. And we don't know if drought is necessarily a growing trend that Minnesota farmers need to anticipate for the future, but expecting the unexpected and extreme weather fluctuations like what we've also been seeing throughout this last month…well, that kind of is. These incremental climate changes have endless impacts across our landscape. For example, it's threatening our moose and loon populations. Pine forests are steadily becoming replaced with more drought-resilient hardwoods and prairies. And it's definitely affecting the crops we grow, the way we grow them and the livelihood of those people who grow them.

Mary Clare McAleer 06:20

And that's the focus for this episode: how the Midwest specifically is feeling the impacts of climate change, and an increase in extreme weather and how farmers are responding. To learn more about this, Shannon and I spoke with longtime farmer Kurt Kimber and U of M Professor Kathy Drager.

Sarah Riedl  06:37

All right, thank you, Mary Clare. Let's hear what they had to say.

Mary Clare McAleer 06:41

First, we have Dr. Cathy Drager Dr. Draeger is an adjunct assistant professor in the University of Minnesota's Department of Agronomy and plant genetics, where she teaches honors courses on the principles of sustainability and transitioning Minnesota to a carbon-neutral economy. She's also the statewide director for the U of M's Extension Regional Sustainability Development Partnership, which brings the University and the greater community together on sustainability projects in four focus areas, including agriculture and food systems. Kathy is well versed in many topics including sustainable agriculture, clean energy, and she has personal experience with these matters to us she lives on a farm with her family and Big Stone County. She is currently the principal investigator for a USDA grant to develop innovative supply chains for locally produced foods. She has been a Bush Leadership Fellow and a MacArthur scholar. She has served as an environmental protection commissioner in Iowa and was appointed to the governor's roundtable for sustainable development in Minnesota. And we are so grateful for her participation in our discussion today. Dr. Draeger, thanks so much for being here today.

Kathy Draeger 07:49

Thank you.

Shannon Lippke  07:50

We are also joined by Kurt Kimber. Kurt owns and operates Kimber Contours, a 240-acre farm in Castle Rock Minnesota. Together with his siblings, Chris and Carol, Kurt grows agronomic crops including food-grade soybeans, sweet corn, dry peas, wheat, and other grains, including a new perennial grain that I'm excited to learn more about today called Kernza®. In 2017, Kimber contours became certified organic and a participant in the Minnesota agricultural water quality certification program. He has implemented many conservation practices on his farm over the years, including first and foremost contour farming, where row patterns are designed to be level around a hill rather than just top to bottom to increase water infiltration and reduce erosion. They also use cover crops, a reduced tillage system, and agroforestry. Kurt and his family really strive to be good stewards of the land and focus on growing food for local consumption. They work with other area growers, processors, and researchers to expand the local food web and associated supply chain. Kimber Contours was named the Outstanding Conservationists of the Year in 2020 by the Dakota County Soil and Water Conservation District, which is where a large part of this biographical information came from, so thank you to them. Kurt is also a committed activist and an MN350 board member and has advocated for many social justice projects across the Twin Cities, including the South Minneapolis Neighborhood Associations, the Hiawatha light rail, and Wireless Minneapolis to bring digital access to everyone in the city. At MN350, we believe there is no environmental justice without social and racial justice, as our systems disproportionately place an unfair environmental burden on nonwhite people. We are honored to have Kurt who understands this link as a member of the MN350 community and to have him here with us today. So thank you, Kurt, for taking time during the growing season to talk with us today.

Kurt Kimber 10:12

Thanks. A pleasure to be here.

Shannon Lippke  10:15

So let's dive into our conversation. Kurt, starting with you, I just give a pretty brief summary of Kimber Contours, but can you share a little bit more about yourself and about your farm?

Kurt Kimber 10:29

Sure, the first thing I'd like to do is just do a land acknowledgment, our farm is located 30 miles south of the Twin Cities, and it's on ancestral homelands of Dakota and Anishinabeg peoples. I want to acknowledge that my ancestors were part of the system that drove these people off of their ancestral lands. I grew up on the adjacent farm here. So I do have a longer view of how the weather's been on the farm. When I was a kid, it was I think just about universal that July and August would be so dry that it would be reducing the yields of the crop. It was always great if we could get a thunderstorm in the July/August timeframe. But now that's really changed. And we have parts on the farm that we would farm through previously, those areas are now too wet. So I think it's consistent with the data that says, you know, Minnesota’s getting wetter. And I think the other big thing that is a real threat to our agricultural systems is the increased occurrence of these high-intensity rainfall events. The rain comes and pounds and washes soil away. So that's been a motivator for a lot of the conservation practices.

Shannon Lippke  11:51

Was there a certain moment in time that you can remember where you started to think like, wow, this is different from what I've experienced before?

Kurt Kimber 12:02

Yeah, there is one, Shannon. My wife, my partner was giving a saxophone recital in Chicago. And so a bunch of us went down to watch that. Then we were driving home, there had been a straight line windstorm, maybe like the middle of Wisconsin started seeing, you know, branches down and things. As we drove closer and closer to Minneapolis, the extent of the damage became more severe. By the time we got to the cities, it was like, very unsettling how severe the weather was. And that was the first time in my life where I had ever become afraid of the weather. Prior to that, the weather always felt benign and supportive. But that was a point where I saw the weather do things that made me fearful.

Shannon Lippke  12:55

Just a quick follow-up question because I know that you said that you're in the middle of farming right now. Have you been able to start your process on time as expected? Has it been delayed or have you had to change anything at all about this season? 

Kurt Kimber 13:12

It's kind of a chronic issue to find windows to do our planting operation: weed control, our cultivating operations. Our windows to do our fieldwork are shrinking, and basically driving us to be more aggressive on choosing the windows to hit. Bigger field equipment helps in that regard. So you can do more acres over a shorter period of time. I think there are other ramifications to bigger equipment too. But I think this is the third time this year that my farming plans have been shifted because of rainfall. And I think that that's getting to be just more of a common occurrence - different than when I was when I was a kid.

Shannon Lippke  14:02

Is there anything that Kurt just said resonates with you like what weather or climate observations can you share, either from working on your own family farm or from working with the larger community on different sustainability projects through the Regional Sustainable Development Partnerships?

Kathy Draeger 14:21

Yes, I would agree with what we just heard Kurt say that we are seeing more extreme weather events. I live right on the western edge of the state. This area was typically one of the driest parts of the state, we're just on the tallgrass prairie right on the edge of the state. We have, by some estimates in recent years,  as much as 10 additional inches of rain per year. So absolutely I would say that the data about a wetter Minnesota is definitely observable in Big Stone County. And I'm gonna say one thing that might be slightly controversial. Something I've observed on the landscape that has really troubled me is the amount of pattern tile drainage that has been installed throughout the state.

Sarah Riedl  15:14

I want to interrupt here just for a second. For any listeners who aren't familiar with this, because I know I wasn't Mary Clare, can you please explain what tiled drainage is, and why is it prevalent in Minnesota? 

Mary Clare McAleer 15:25

Yeah, so tile drainage is an agricultural drainage system that removes excess subsurface water from the fields to allow sufficient airspace within the soil, proper cultivation, and access by heavy machinery to tend to and harvest crops. Subsurface water management is very prevalent in Minnesota because of the glacial processes in the Upper Midwest that formed our highly productive but poorly drained soils. Using tile to control groundwater levels is not exclusive to agriculture, you may have tile around the foundation of your house to keep your basement dry. Today, these tiles look more like the accordion plastic tube that you might add to the end of your downspout right before a rainstorm.

Sarah Riedl  16:05

Thank you for that explanation very clearly. Now let's go back to what Dr. Draeger was saying.

Kathy Draeger 16:11

People have been tiling farm fields for a very long time. We don't even know historically how long people have been tiling. This may be a cultural practice that goes back maybe some millennia. We've been farming for you know, estimates are around 14,000 years. So I'm not saying that this is a new practice. But with technology, what we're doing is making those tiles bigger, deeper, we're changing how they're installed, they're getting installed closer and closer together, which when you look at a large landscape, it's really obvious when the tile is put in, it really occurred me that this is farmers adapting to climate change. These farmers are responding to 10 inches more rainfall a year by putting down more intensive drainage under the surface of their soils. And that is taking water off the landscape faster. And there are a number of literally downstream impacts of doing that. I think there's just more and more of this going in, in places where just historically there wasn't a return on their investment. I was sitting with a farmer and I said to him, tell me about what you're doing with your tile drainage. And he says, Well, you know, it is the most return for investment I can get on my farm. There's no sense in me buying any new equipment. If I can't get on the landscape and plant because there's water standing. I have to then kind of admit to myself, that maybe without even naming it as climate adaptation. It is climate adaptation for these farmers who are trying to address the issue of all the standing water that was not on their fields historically but is on their fields. Now. I think this is something that needs a little more scrutiny and for those of us who work with farmers and sustainable development, I think we need to have some conversations about climate adaptation. And that in some cases, the adaptation we're doing to climate change may actually have other cascading environmental impacts. This is kind of a novel thought I discussed this at a statewide meeting last month caused a little bit of cognitive dissonance because we generally think of climate adaptation as very positive things, managing stormwater better or maybe having less impervious surfaces. We're not used to thinking about climate adaptation as maybe having some negative ripple effects.

Mary Clare McAleer 18:39

Based on the 2020 Iowa farm and Real Life poll by Iowa State University. Clearly, farmers agree with Kathy's notion that people are turning to tile as a form of climate mitigation. The poll asks farmers how they are mitigating climate change. The second most popular practice was upgrading existing tile drainage systems or installing new ones to deal with the risks brought on by extreme weather. The article Titled Drainage 101 by Successful Farming, highlights installing tile drainage as an opportune time to implement soil health practices. As Kurt mentioned earlier, many farmers are struggling to find windows to get into the field. This problem is one reason some farmers are hesitant to adopt practices such as cover crops. Typically, the biomass produced by overwintering cover crops must be terminated either chemically or mechanically. Before the planting of a commodity crop. If a field is too wet to work, termination of said cover crop may delay planting affecting yields and in turn the farmers bottom line.

Kurt Kimber 19:41

They basically manage the soil moisture. One of the downsides of this is that the tile was in there and it's basically draining year-round. So nitrogen fertilizers, kind of the number one type of fertilizer that's applied this nitrogen content burn into a form of nitrate. And then that nitrate is water-soluble. So that drains into our dreams and rivers just contribute to the hypoxic zone in the Gulf of Mexico. The city of Des Moines has to have very expensive nitrate removal systems. There have been lawsuits about who's financially responsible for those. I think one of the things - maybe Kathy will comment on this -  I think that some amount of the tile turns would be groundwater into surface water. That’s intercepting water that would be recharging our aquifers.

Kathy Draeger 20:41

And I think we need more research, and we need to quantify that. We need to be looking at that as an unintended consequence of moving surface water off the landscape faster. But I agree with you, Kurt, I think that is something we should be looking into, because, you know, we depend upon those aquifers.

Kurt Kimber 20:59

That's where much of the farmers’ irrigation water comes from.

Sarah Riedl  21:02

So I want to return to something that Dr. Draeger mentioned about the term ‘climate adaptation’. I imagine a lot of people have kind of a positive connotation with that phrase, as in an approach that responds to climate change, but in a way that simultaneously reduces our impact moving forward. But what I heard Kathy saying is that adapting to a change doesn't always produce a more positive outcome. You know, adapting to the situation doesn't always mean addressing the problem at its source.

Mary Clare McAleer 21:33

Right, surface and subsurface drainage affect water quality differently. For example, as rainwater hits the soil surface, the impact detaches soil particles. The water that does not infiltrate down the soil profile runs across the surface, pushing the soil particles, often creating sheet and soil erosion. This erosion can bring sediment and phosphorus to our water bodies. That's why it's so important to keep the soil covered. Tile drainage may reduce surface runoff pollutants as more water is likely able to infiltrate down through the soil profile but tile drainage may increase dissolved nutrients such as nitrate, as Kurt mentioned. Many people think that nutrient losses from farm fields are simply a matter of excess fertilizer application that farmers just need to use less, but the issue goes a little deeper, literally. So where does this nitrate come from? Nitrate forms as a result of microbial decomposition of crop residues and soil organic matter when soil microbial communities run out of easily accessible carbon. A professor at the University of Illinois, Lowell Gentry has been looking at the decoupling of our carbon and nitrogen cycles. His work hypothesizes that as we switched from applying more organic fertilizers such as manure, which has a more equal carbon to nitrogen ratio, to the inorganic nitrogen fertilizer often used today, we've left the soil microbes without enough carbon to munch on resulting in the formation of nitrate. Lowell Gentry makes the case for practices such as cover crops and reduce tillage to build up soil carbon, reduce the amount of nitrate produced, and even reduce surface erosion as I was talking about earlier.

Sarah Riedl  23:07

So pros and cons, right? I mean, it sounds like tile drainage is maybe a useful climate adaptation at the moment but in order to make the system sustainable, it needs to be coupled with additional conservation efforts to mitigate the negative effects of managing the subsurface water. What other kinds of strategies did the guests talk about?

Shannon Lippke  23:31

Kurt, how are you adapting to the changes in weather and climate on your farm? What kinds of techniques or practices are you using that maybe you didn't when you first started?

Kurt Kimber 23:44

Yeah, as I said earlier, getting more aggressive about hitting windows for possible field operations. We installed what are called Prairie Strips, they came out of Iowa State. They are 30-foot wide strips and we seeded them to native prairie species. We wrap those around the contours of the farm. The intention is that the prairie plants stand up in rushing water and act like a porous dam as opposed to the waterway grasses that basically just lay down when water runs through a waterway. Trying to leave more crop residue on the soil surface. I think regenerative agriculture talks about armoring the soil, so residue really has a lot of great attributes that can also help infiltration of rainwater: super important when we have these high-intensity rainfall events. Another thing that I'm really enthusiastic about is the so-called perennialization of agriculture: work that the Land Institute in Kansas and the University of Minnesota’s Forever Green program are both working on. In particular, our farm has Kernza®, which is a trademarked name for intermediate wheatgrass. Kernza® is a grain that is planted once, and then you can harvest it for three years. It's great because our small grains have to usually be tilled annually. So this is eliminating two-thirds of that. It has an amazing root system, I believe, eight to 10 feet deep in the soil. Its root system will plug up tile lines and make them in-operable. Knowing that we were planting Kernza® on our farm, we've chosen not to install the tile in a particular area of our farm.

Shannon Lippke  25:53

This is a very new crop as well. I definitely hear some positive things like as a perennial, there's less tillage that's needed, it creates that strong root system which is good for the soil. What do you use Kernza® for?

Kurt Kimber 26:11

It's a grain so it can be ground into a flour, pancakes, or crackers. Some breweries are also using it as a brewing stock for beer. I think there's maybe a small number of alcohol distillers that are looking at it also.

Kathy Draeger 26:30

I'll just say that on Friday, July 29. My program, the U of M Regional Sustainable Development Partnership, is having a Kernza pancake breakfast in Winona Minnesota. Pancakes are going to be cooked by the Winona County 4-H club. We're trying to get the word out by having a tasty community pancake feed on the morning of Friday, July 29. 

Shannon Lippke  26:57

Yeah, that sounds delicious. Kathy, you also grow Kernza®, right?

Kathy Draeger 27:02

Yeah, so when they were first releasing some of the early varieties from the university, we tested Kernza® on our firm to see if we could plant it in the fall, and then in the spring. We raise 100% grass-fed beef. We have cattle on our farm, we put over 100 acres of our farm into perennials, so that we perennialized our landscape so that we could raise cattle. We say often that we raise grass, rather than raising beef because really the grass is our crop and the cattle use that crop for us. We were testing if we could graze it in the spring, and then raise it to a grain crop that we could then harvest in the late summer, early fall. Then have that second flush of regrowth in the early fall, graze it again, and then start the whole process over again the following spring. We were looking for a way to incorporate animals into the Kernza® lifecycle over those three years. And you know, we did struggle to get the current crop established. I think the more recent varieties may respond better. Certainly, I think it is another way that we can look at a farm as a system. Some of these grasses actually evolved under grazing by ruminants. So there is an ecological purpose in having animals on the landscape. And many farmers - we are also certified organic - really look at removing animals from the landscape. It doesn’t necessarily benefit the soil of the land. There are advantages to incorporating some animals into your landscape rather than looking solely at row crops or grain crops. But I'm very excited about the potential for Kernza®. As someone who sits in the Agronomy and Plant Genetics Department and having a perennial crop is kind of like the Holy Grail of plant breeding. We're very excited to see where Kernza® can go. I have a bag of Kernza in my kitchen. I cook with it as well and it has a very nice flavor, just a touch of a cinnamon flavor to it. So it's kind of an exciting food product.

Mary Clare McAleer 29:25

This conversation about perennial crops being so beneficial to mitigating increased rainfall and soil erosion reminds me of President Biden's recent visits to Illinois, where he encouraged farmers to take up double-cropping, the harvesting of two crops from the same field in a given year, as a way to expand production by intensifying the use of existing cropland all to accommodate the anticipated grain shortage due to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There are many different double-cropping systems with varying environmental benefits and effects. According to the USDA Economic Research Service, one pro of double-cropping is reduced exposure of soil between harvesting periods protecting the soil from wind and water erosion. In some cases, some double-cropping systems may require additional inputs such as pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers, irrigation, water, or the use of conventional tillage, which can have negative environmental impacts. Additionally, double cropping may be riskier than growing a single crop. They are more susceptible to moisture and weather variations within the growing season and therefore yields may be more variable. And as we've been discussing, weather variations within the growing season are already happening. So I'm wondering, Kurt and Kathy, can you speak to how double-cropping systems might work in your area, and some thoughts on meeting global demand as climate change and geopolitical events continue to affect the world's farmers.

Kurt Kimber 30:44

One issue with double cropping is that you might be able to do it in a no-till system, I'm not extremely familiar with how those work. But if you did it in an organic farming system, you'd have an additional tillage operation in between the two crops. One possible benefit of double cropping is that you utilize more of the growing season, sometimes you can have a winter annual, harvest that, and then have a warm season crop afterwards.

Kathy Draeger 31:16

Yeah, so again, getting back to the Forever Green Initiative, which is at the University of Minnesota, that's where the Kernza breeding and supply chain work is coming out of. So one of the crops is, for example, winter barley, and we've grown barley here on our farm. Barley is human food, it could also be used as animal feed as well. We grew food-class barley on our farm. One of the crops that we are working on is winter barley. You would plant that barley in the fall, you would harvest it as early in the season as possible, and then depending on what climate zone you're in, you might be able to plant a crop of soybeans following the barley crop. So that would be a double-crop, you could get two crops off of that field in a year's time, rather than just having soybeans planted, you would harvest the winter barley in the spring, and then you'd be able to plant in another crop. There are some opportunities for double-cropping. As we were talking earlier in our introductions about what amazing farmland there is in this area of the world, and how much this is actually one of those bread baskets, so is Ukraine. Losing that farmland due to social disruption and war is going to impact global food supplies absolutely. We're not sure how it'll impact in 2022, because those crops may yet get harvested. But certainly in 2023 Unless something resolves, we're going to see some global food supply impacts. I think of these strategies as being something that can maybe provide more perennial cover and more continuous green cover on our landscape, which has multiple benefits, and could also help hopefully provide additional food into the global food supply chain. 

Kurt Kimber 33:03

Unfortunately, I think we're just about guaranteed to see famine in the world this year. A couple of major climate-related events: China, the world's number one wheat producer, had a historically bad wheat year this year because it was so wet in the spring that they couldn't get their crop planted. India, the number two wheat producer in the world had unusually early and an unusually intense heatwave, I believe that was like 120 degrees. Small grains cannot tolerate that kind of temperature, really no crops do well in that circumstance. It's dire. And unfortunately, it's the people on Earth that are low-income. Some people pay 40% of their income for food, and they really can't deal with more expensive food. So it's going to be a crisis with climate disruptions. I think this has been coming. The war in Ukraine exacerbated it and kind of pushed it forward. So it's sobering.

Shannon Lippke  34:20

Yeah. I think sobering is the right word. It is tough because we're always rallying for a local food system because of all the benefits that come with that but we also find ourselves with this moral responsibility as global citizens and producers in the American Heartland to help fight hunger experienced in other parts of the world. We're all so interconnected now and whether it's the wheat production in Ukraine that's suffering because of geopolitical reasons or Kurt, like you mentioned in India and China from climate and weather events. We don't live in grain silos: everything that happens in one part of the world has some kind of ripple effect elsewhere, and this goes well beyond our food system. Even when we talk about food here on the podcast, we're talking about something else that's also related: our energy use, equal access to healthy food, and gainful employment in agriculture. Do you often think about these kinds of intersectionalities in your work?

Kathy Draeger 35:29

One thing that I'd like to bring up, because it's fresh in my mind, is that I serve on the Rural Electric Co-Op board. We maintain the electric infrastructure for about 3,500 Farms in like a 3.5 county area. In the month of May, we actually lost hundreds of electric poles with the straight-line wind events, these weren't even tornadoes, but we had great line winds over 100 miles an hour. I just want to point out that the extreme weather that we're seeing, and it has an impact in rural communities, you know, in places people were without power for a week here between broken poles and poles that were leaning over, we lost around 200 electric poles. Then on Memorial Day weekend, another straight-line wind storm came in and took down more of the electric power infrastructure. I would certainly say that extreme weather is impacting the infrastructure that we have across the landscape. And we're all dependent on this landscape. I mean, the large wind power projects, those are all part of the grid. And so when those power poles go down, yes, it affects the people who don't have power, but it can have other ripple effects throughout the system as well. So that is one of the impacts that I've seen as well, and I'm familiar with, and I was getting nightly updates on how many people were without power, because the majority of people in our service area were without power after the May 12th event.

Shannon Lippke  37:05

Kurt, was your farm impacted by those recent weather events?

Kurt Kimber 37:11

No not in particular, but if it would have been later in the season when the crops were up and standing, then it could have flattened the crops and caused them to lodge, that is going to reduce the quality and the yield of the crops. We've had other, you know, really severe rainfall events. We had four inches in 45 minutes, I think three summers ago. Ten years ago, we had 13 inches over three days. Back to the famine, I think one thing that we should consider also is diet. Basically, the rich countries have, you know, great diets, poor countries have, you know, subsistence diets. And I think that that's one thing that could help address feeding the world's population.

Kathy Draeger 38:02

And Kurt, I agree with you as well, and one thing that I would like to point out is that the most recent IPCC report did talk about for the first time, we have more greenhouse gas emissions beyond the farm gate, rather than on the farm gate. The transportation, the processing, the distribution of foods are now creating more greenhouse gas emissions than what's happening on the farm. I think it's really important that we think about consuming less processed foods as well, I think the processing has a climate burden that we don't often take into account. I'm holding a book, it's called “The Distribution Age,” and it was written by Ralph Borsodi, and you can actually find copies of this online. But this is a cautionary tale of what happens when people start increasing the length of the food supply chain and adding processing and advertising and all those types of things. Cereal is one of the things that he focuses on, and he claimed that if we stayed on this trajectory, of having more and more processed food, that hardly any of the food dollars would be going back to farmers and it would all be going to manufacturers, processors, retailers, and advertising people. So this book I have from him called The Distribution Age was written in 1928, and it is really a cautionary tale about the impacts of having oatmeal for breakfast, having cinnamon crunch for breakfast, like the difference between those two things is very impactful on the planet and it's also impactful on the farmers. If you look at the farmer’s share of how much they can get for a box of cereal, it's ridiculously low, it's pennies. I think like a $5 box of cereal, according to the Farmers Union, has like 12 cents that goes back to the farmer.

Kurt Kimber 40:16

One other thing I'll throw in Kathy is, that I'm guessing that probably a big part of the emissions in the food system after it gets off the farm is food waste. In developed countries, people throw, you know, edible food away. And in third world countries, have problems with storage of production, approximately a third of the food is wasted. And that's a big opportunity. We didn't waste that food, we could feed more people with it. Food that goes into landfills in the developed world turns into methane gas.

Kathy Draeger 40:49

I agree 100%, I take a ridiculous amount of pride and feel so good - I consider myself a food waste ninja - we waste nothing in my house. It's like a game or a challenge, or just such a deeply held conviction that sometimes my children are suspicious of what they're being served. I agree 100%, we need to create that ethic, and that sense of pride and accomplishment of having zero food waste. When I look at the whole thing about climate change, I feel really strongly that we need to have people empowered, and have a sense of agency that they can really make a difference. I'll just say personally, and again, this might be controversial, I am tired of waiting for the policy solutions. Like I just want to be active in making decisions today that will have less impact on the environment. And food waste is absolutely one of those and our own energy consumption. And I feel like I'm tired of waiting for someone else to come up with the solutions. And I just want to implement them myself, in my family, in my firm, and in my community. 

Shannon Lippke  41:59

Yeah Kathy I think what you just described as a really good call to action, which is how we like to end the show: just asking to share your call to action, which can be directed towards our listeners, everyday people, or policymakers. Is there something specific you'd like to share?

Kurt Kimber 42:15

I'll say that you know, privileged people, like a lot of people that live in the U.S. and in first world countries, really are in a position to make significant changes in terms of binding to the climate crisis. The other thing, we talked about political gridlock, if we want to make policy changes, we're going to have to change who's representing us in Congress. That's an opportunity. Certainly, the country is extremely polarized politically right now, and I think that leads to gridlock. We're just facing these existential threats and nothing is happening so often that I'm, I'm just sitting here watching, basically, the Industrialized West walk humanity off the climate crisis cliff. It's a difficult thing. Somebody mentioned cognitive dissonance earlier, and it's holding two pretty different things in your mind: kind of our day-to-day and then what's happening if you step back and kind of look at where these trends are going and what the implications are.

Kathy Draeger 43:22

I hear Kurt, I feel like I resonate with everything you said, and that is why I said what I did earlier, but I'm not willing to wait any longer for the right political alignment, or the right policy to be in place. I feel like all of us have an opportunity right now, to find ways every day to lower our burden on this planet. Lower your water usage. I mean, all these things add up, it takes energy to have clean drinking water, to pump that water, to transport that water. You know, Kurt, your point about food waste: boom. No food waste. Eat whole foods, you know, find ways to cook up grains and enjoy those with things that you can garden even if it's herbs or tomatoes in a pot. You can even grow microgreens if you have a window that faces South, there are things we can do. I hang my laundry on the line outside, and yeah, some days I am like, just throw it in the dryer because it's so much easier, but frankly watching thunderclouds on the horizon while you're hanging sheets on the line, it just fills your soul as well as protects the climate. In a lot of places in the city, you can also hang your clothes out. I mean, there are things we can do in so many different areas of our life.

Sarah Riedl  44:42

I love that final image that Kathy left us with, you know, watching the clouds roll in. She's absolutely right, there are so many little things that each of us can do in our own lives. They do add up and everybody has the power to decrease their demand for energy. As we know, individual actions alone are not going to get us to 1.5 degrees or less, so Kurt's point is also spot on. We do need systemic action and we need leaders who are bold enough to take it. 

Mary Clare McAleer 45:00

Yeah, it is so important to vote for and support the climate candidate but also, once they're in the office and your elected legislator, keep the pressure on, scrutinize them. Make sure that they know that you are not going to be happy with the status quo of moving past their climate promises. We want to make sure that people that are in office are sticking to what they've said during the campaign. Be an active constituent after election day as well.

Shannon Lippke  45:39

Yeah, I totally agree with holding our elected officials responsible, not just when we first vote them in, but throughout their entire term. And I also agree with what Kathy was saying about holding ourselves personally accountable because she is right, there are so many things that we can personally do just to challenge ourselves to remind us and to incorporate it into our daily living. And then share that with other people to in turn inspire them to think about like, well, what changes can I do personally, and then that's another way that this movement can continue to grow. Sarah, what's that idea where it's something that I've heard talked about at MN350 meetings, like it just takes a small percentage of people to really make a movement?

Sarah Riedl  46:36

Yeah, it's only 3.5%! It can be overwhelming to think about the climate crisis. We all have to do our part in order to make big change, we need everybody. But the research has shown that it really only takes 3.5% of the population to be actively engaged in order to get the movement going. So that is something that always gives me hope. We don't have to convince everyone. But those we do convince, can really play their part to make systemic change happen. I have been involved with MN350, in some way, shape, or form for almost three years now. And I can tell you from my own personal experience, and from all of the volunteers, and staff members I've met, it is so common to hear a story about how people started taking individual steps, you know, doing what they could individually, and then moved from there into greater systemic change, so we can use one to get to the other. And with that, that brings us to the end of our show! So for our listeners, you can learn more about Dr. Kathy Draeger and her work with the Regional Sustainable Development Partnerships at the University of Minnesota Extension webpage. Through the U of M Extension, people can access all kinds of information and events, often free, about healthy food, gardening, crop production, and so much more. We'll add a direct link to the RSDP page in our show notes, along with some links to learn more about perennial wheat grain Kernza. To follow Kurt's advice and ensure we're electing climate champions at all levels of government, you can go to MN350action.org/2022-candidate-endorsements where we've shared our lists of endorsements for upcoming and Minnesota elections. You can also follow MN350 Action on our social media platforms. Thanks again to Kurt Kimber of Kimber Contours and MN350. And Dr. Kathy Draeger from the University of Minnesota. Shannon and Mary Clare, thank you once again for joining me and bringing our listeners this conversation.

Shannon Lippke  48:46

Yeah, thank you so much, Sarah.

Mary Clare McAleer 48:47

Thank you.

Sarah Riedl  48:48

And for our listeners remember that you can find links to the websites we've mentioned in our show notes. If you liked this episode, don't forget to subscribe and share. This is our last episode this season. So we'll be taking a break for the summer and hope to come back next year with all new stories about the climate justice movement here in Minnesota and the people that are making it happen. In the meantime, be sure to follow MN350 and MN350 Action on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to stay up to date on all the ways that you can get involved in the movement. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.

“Nourish by MN350” is a production of MN350’s Food Systems Team. We are changing the way people think about food production, distribution, and consumption practices in the context of rapid climate change.

• This series is made possible by the hard work and passion of a group of dedicated volunteers.
  • Our producer for this episode is Shannon Lippke.
  • This episode was written by Shannon Lippke, Mary Clare McAleer, and Bill Adamski.
  • And our audio editor is Mary Clare McAleer.
  • Our logo was designed by Fizz Design Collective.
  • And our music is by Ecuador Manta. 

You can learn more at MN350Action.org/podcasts.

And if you enjoyed listening to our show today and you would like to support the work of MN350’s Podcast Team, visit the “Support this show” link at the bottom of this episode’s description, wherever you listen. We are volunteers, but your donation helps ensure that we can continue to bring you the stories of the leaders working at the intersection of food and climate justice. Thanks again! 

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