Divorce. It's a hard subject and a transition that has so many complexities. On this episode, I talk with Heather Candelaria and Theresa Kleinlein with DIV/VY The Divorce Agency about the hard lessons they learned in their own divorces and how that helped them create their business to support people facing the financial, emotional, and custodial challenges of divorce. We discuss:
Learn more about DIV/VY The Divorce Agency here. Be sure to check out their podcast at Your Divorce Coaches, which is relaunching soon.
Divorce. It's a hard subject and a transition that has so many complexities. On this episode, I talk with Heather Candelaria and Theresa Kleinlein with DIV/VY The Divorce Agency about the hard lessons they learned in their own divorces and how that helped them create their business to support people facing the financial, emotional, and custodial challenges of divorce. We discuss:
Learn more about DIV/VY The Divorce Agency here. Be sure to check out their podcast at Your Divorce Coaches, which is relaunching soon.
Welcome to My Innermission, a podcast conversation about the transitions and changes we face in life and the strategies and approaches that support us and taking the next step in our journey. I'm your host Colleen Stanevich. We're coming up on Valentine's Day and in the spirit of honoring big life transitions. We have a rather ironic Valentine's episode topic, divorce. My guest today are Heather Calendaria and Teresa Kleinlein from DIVVY, the divorce agency where they provide the guidance services and support that they wish they would have had when they were going through their own divorces. Heather is a certified divorce coach and has earned her designation as a real estate collaboration specialist in divorce. Her own divorce coincided with the economic recession of 2009. And after losing two homes and millions of dollars in real estate and being forced into bankruptcy, she made it her mission to understand the complexities of real estate when dealing with divorce. So as a realtor certified divorce coach and collaboration specialist in divorce, she brings a unique skill set of emotional and project management, helping clients navigate incredibly important business decisions during divorce. She also works closely with the developer and her end goal is to have multiple rental properties available in great neighborhoods for her clients going through life adjustments after the divorce process. Teresa's passion has always been to help people focus on their children while going through this emotionally and often financially debilitating process. She has her certification as a life coach. And during the last year her clients have been primarily teens. She's now engaged in the process of writing a book that helps teens and young adults understand divorce from their parents perspective, in an effort to promote healing and understanding. Theresa and Heather are also co hosts of the entertaining and often irreverent podcast, your divorce coach. Well, thanks for joining me on this rather unusual Valentine's podcast where we talk divorce, I really appreciate both of you taking the time to chat today, and to focus on the complexities of divorce and the impact that it has on our roles as parents and ex spouses and being single again. So Teresa and Heather, welcome to My Innermission.
3:02
Thank you so much. Happy to be here. Thanks for having us.
3:05
So let's start a little bit about your own life transitions that brought you to the work that you do today.
3:13
Okay, I'll jump in. And I, you know, my divorce was finalized. It took a while to get finalized, but I got separated at the height of the recession. Okay, so that's kind of where my backstory comes from. Because I was very young, when I got married, I was like, very excited. And throughout this whole marriage, you know, we had started a business together, I signed a lot of documents not knowing exactly what they were, which would come back to haunt me later. And then at the, when we got divorced at the height of the recession, I had to learn very quickly about how much I really didn't know about so many business decisions that go along with the, you know, the aspect, the separation of divorce and the separation of a family. And so in the 10 years following, you know, I learned a lot. I also had to, you know, I was forced to declare bankruptcy. I lost two homes, you know, millions of dollars in real estate savings, everything like that. So I basically had to start from scratch. And I worked in advertising and I worked while my kids were little. And you know, I worked full time when they got a little bit older. And then, you know, a couple years ago, I actually, I had to rent a house, because I couldn't buy and I decided to get my real estate license so I could do my own transaction. And in that process, it just kind of came to light where like, nobody talks to you about this stuff. Nobody tells you what you need to know. Nobody tells you what you need to do like when you have you know you have all of these huge, important business really business decisions that are facing you during this divorce process and all you can think about is focusing on your kids and Help and like, you know, you don't want to get out of bed in the morning. It's like, how do you make clear cut decisions when it comes to these huge, you know, assets in your life and make the right smart choices. And I think I don't think that there's anybody really talking about and guiding people through that process. So, you know, Teresa and I have been friends for a really long time, we kind of got divorced at the same time. And, you know, I just said, I'm like, why isn't anybody doing this? Why isn't anybody really helping people through this process? And coming from an agency background, I was a producer. And one of the smartest pieces of advice that I got when I was getting divorced was produce it like you would any other job. And it really hit me because I'm like, okay, that's really smart. Because it's like, what do you need in the course of a production, right? You need the right team, you need a schedule, you need a budget, and you need someone to kind of project manage it and help it along. Because when you're, you know, getting divorced, you know, like, like I said, there's sometimes you don't even want to go to bed in the morning. So where is that kind of help. And lawyers aren't going to do that. Lawyers are just in it right to, you know, represent the law. And these are the rules and done it up. So it's like how, where there's like this big missing piece in the divorce structure right now, that is needed for so many people going through it. So we kind of talked about it, I was like, I love kind of the idea of a divorce agency that has project management. But also, you know, I have a background now in real estate, to help people guide them through these decisions. And, you know, really help them get from point A to point B, so that I was like, this is a great idea. How do I do this, I did some research. And, you know, I became a certified divorce coach, I'm a collaboration specialist in real estate, for divorce. So I just kind of led me on this path. And Teresa and I kind of got together and said, Why don't we do this, this is needed. And this is lacking? And how do we help people? How do we help women? You know, make smart decisions, when you do you're emotionally still on the floor with all of this?
7:00
That is a fascinating process. And your your background is so unique to put all those pieces together to say, yes, this is what's needed. But I love that idea of how do you produce a divorce process? That's so fascinating. How about you, Teresa,
7:14
um, you know, Heather, you're so eloquent. I remember, hopefully, this doesn't resonate with any of your listeners right now. I remember deciding, am I gonna have another child, because I know I'm going to get divorced. And I don't want my daughter to be going back and forth alone. So that's, that's how much I knew that I was going to end up getting divorced. And I think there weren't, there were so much planning in my head before I was divorced, of how I was going to try to do it in the right way, from how I approached it with their father, to finding out financially, that we weren't anywhere that I thought that we were. And a lot of people don't have that they don't have that advantage. When people are taken off guard, they're in love with their husband, or they're not that, again, I'm not anti male, but when I speak, it's probably going to be from a woman's point of view. And they are completely surprised that you know, maybe they're getting a divorce, or maybe that somebody cheated, or whatever. And so the fact that I was able to go through it, I look with my emotions intact. But still just what you have to go through, I mean, what you need to go through, not like from Heather's real estate side, what you have to go through finding out where you are financially. And it doesn't matter if you are completely thinking that you were, we know people that are extremely wealthy. It still it totally brings you to your knees, having to go through all this emotionally, financially, and then trying to handle it for your kids. So I got divorced in what I was, at the time definitely amicable tried to make the decision to never speak bad about their father to my daughters ever. And I really, that is a really difficult thing to do, especially if they're doing some of the things that their father was doing. But I really tried to make that decision and kind of make that my focus going through the next few years of divorce.
9:18
My situation is totally different. But then again, so is every situation, but like just like when you ask somebody like about their birth of a child, it's completely different. And one person might think you're so lucky because the dad's involved and goes to soccer. And someone else might be like, well, you're so lucky because yours actually pays child support. So there's so many different facets of it that can make you feel like a victim or feel sorry for yourself. So it's really about I think just deciding how you're going to go through this and who you want to be for yourself and for your kids. Because it it takes away your complete identity and you're rebuilding yourself and who you are. And it sounds so negative how he's saying it The best thing that ever happened to me, since besides my kids since my marriage, I mean, I'm so happy that I got divorced, it would have been horrible for my kids and myself if I didn't. But at the same time, it's just odd that you don't know what you're getting into. When I mean, people are taking people dinners because they had a baby, nobody needs to dinners when they're having a baby, they need dinners when they're getting a divorce, like they need community to rally around them, they need to still be invited to things. So there's just like Heather said, there's just such a lack of information out there such a lack of support, and lack of realism. You know, there's a lot of people out there posting memes on Instagrams, saying, like good vibes, you're gonna be great, blah, blah, blah. And at the same time, it's like you, you have no idea how to have this relationship with your ex, you can't stand just so you're still in your kids lives and figuring out what they got on their science test that day. So there's just it was a total void and black hole we think of, in this day and age with technology, for there to be something like this, that still didn't have anything wrapped around it as far as help for people or even information. I mean, Heather, and I have been told millions of times by people, it's such an antiquated industry in general, whether you talk about the system, or enter technology for the legal system, any of it is just completely behind the times,
11:21
I think you said a couple of really important things there. I mean, one is just the complexity of divorce. And both of you touched on this, but I mean, I, I myself have not gone through a divorce. But seeing friends of mine go through it, the things that surface, whether it's the financial surprises that come up, or the emotional surprises, or the social surprises, you know, when your social circle splits, all of a sudden, what happens there, there's just so much complexity to it. And as you said, Teresa, it's kind of that moment of like the hardest thing. And one of the best things that can happen to you in life. If it happens for the right reasons, too. It's just such a complex time. And then there's like, there's a stigma around it, too, in terms of how much to talk about it and the resources out there.
12:00
Yeah, and that's another thing too, I wanted to touch on, I just wrote this down. Because I was like thinking, I was I'm the one that thinks like when everybody else is talking. But there's this, there's this shame and this embarrassment with divorce, whether you do it yourself or whether you're surprised by it, and the stigma. And that's why I think people don't reach out for help. And people don't offer to help because it's just kind of a weird thing. So and it shouldn't be like that. And, you know, people just take the advice of a friend who got divorced, but like Teresa said, Every single one is so different, you may wind up with the wrong lawyer, and you might cause your divorce to go longer and more animosity with your ex. It's just, there has to be a better way. And that's just kind of what we're trying to do.
12:41
Mm hmm. So you two are both coaches. Heather, you're a certified divorce coach.
12:47
Yes, yeah, that and so just like Theresa said, is that it's a certified divorce coach, and it is recognized by the International coaching Federation. So I have to do like continuing education and all of that. There's about, there's really only about 200 certified divorce coaches internationally now. So this is a new, a new facet and a new niche of coaching, that is just kind of coming to light right now.
13:15
And then Theresa, you are a life coach for crisis and disaster. And then the two of you came together to create DIVVY the divorce agency. I just want to know within your agency, like what what does your support and coaching look like for someone we talked about the complexities of divorce, but But what do you offer in response to that need?
13:36
So there's a couple of different facets that we focus on consultations, a big part of it. So you know, we as Teresa said, we know a lot of therapists, you know, we're connected to divorce lawyers, mediators, certified divorce financial analysts, obviously, I handle a lot of the real estate stuff with that specialty there. And there's a few other coaches too, that we may refer out to, but it really is, you know, about creating that team. You know, so the consultation is a big part of it. Then there's the coaching. And then like Theresa mentioned, it's community and it's like how do we bring people together? activities, events, talks, things like that, so people can feel supported through the process.
14:19
Let's go into detail about what that consultation is, you know, I mean, like when somebody might not even know that we exist, and they might be like, call this person and that consultation might be a 30 minutes or hour conversation that kind of gives an overview and helps them decide if this is something that they want to do. They can pay for that initial consultation, they can decide they want to have coaching going forward. Whether you know, they they some people just want facts and resources, you know, others know that they need and can afford a whole like full package is going to help them get through it completely. And Heather, I think it's I think it's so funny, so many people don't know what a cdfa is. Why don't you describe that a little bit.
15:02
So a CDFA is another specialization that's a certified divorce financial analyst. And again, a lot of people don't even know this exists. And the lawyers. I mean, I think a lot, a lot of lawyers are not open to a lot of these other coaches and certified professional, sorry, coaches and certified professionals, unless they're in Collaborative Law, which is actually a whole team of people. So it's kind of like Collaborative Law, but not Collaborative Law. So for example, you know, the cdfa will go in and really scrub all the finances and figure out where you're at, you know, figure out how much you can even afford, you know, to put towards the divorce itself, and what you need to live on, they can help you develop a budget. But they're very, you know, they're highly specialized in that they're the ones that work directly with the attorneys or mediators to set the financial picture make that clear for both of the parties that are involved. Yeah. So like, again, like I didn't even know this existed. Like, I wish I would have somebody like that
16:02
I had no idea. And so when you when someone comes with you,it sounds like there's a lot of different ways they can partner with you to get the support and resources they need. The other thing that comes with divorce, and Teresa, this may be where some of your coaching work comes in around crisis and disaster too, I can imagine. But part of the complexity of divorce too, is just the changing roles that you play, that going from being married to someone to having them being your ex to, you know, if you're a parent with children divorce, how that changes when you are trying to trying to parent across two households, that type of thing. So what kind of support Do you offer to clients when they are looking to redefine their roles?
16:45
So oftentimes, in the divorce you'll have, it'll be great. And you'll have both parents kind of on the same page, they'll be interested in how can we how can we do this together? You don't have any best friends, but how can we do this together and make this happen? Luckily, there's a lot of apps now out there for them to be able to help with the communication through that. So we'll introduce them to some of that technology information. A lot of the time, unfortunately, one side is a little bit more plugged in, and how can we do this, the best way for the kids and the other side might be just not quite there yet emotionally, or maybe not there ever, and not think that they want any help. Um, so we, again, not being therapists will offer tips on how to communicate, and what's been best practices for other people. As far as you know, I always say one basic thing is just trying to change your mindset and all of your communication regarding your kids is trying to think of your acts as like a hired nanny, like literally somebody like how would you speak to somebody that had your kids, your kids are in their life, but not really the not even really caring about them enough to have like this emotion for them, which is learning how to actually speak to them in a very objective way to where you're just discussing the kids, and you're not really fueling the fire or getting emotional, and what those methods might be, whether it's limiting, you know, limiting texting words to say, helping them figure out the best method to get the best, you know, result. Or maybe it's not happening well at all, and maybe they need to have a other type of legal person come in and try to facilitate more of the conversation about it. But some of the coaching also that I've done has been with teens, also not really young kid, with teens, just trying to help them to figure out not in a therapeutic way, you know, for their emotions, but in a coaching way of like, okay, these are your goals, this is what you want to accomplish. This is separate from mom and dad, this is separate from the divorce, this is still your life and what you want to do and how we're going to keep you on track for what you want to accomplish. Amid what might be going on in your family, you still have your own life, and how can we help you be accountable, because if they have that relationship with a coach for that, then they can sometimes separate between like mom wants this or dad wants this. And it really helps them focus on what they want to do and how they can keep thriving during it. And after?
19:12
Yeah, and I think that underscores again, like with divorce, there's not just two people involved in it. If you have kids, that is a whole family structure that is that is being renegotiated at that point, too.
19:24
we also teach people how to play jokes on for example, if he likes to, you know, the stuff that he does over Venmo was very embarrassing, you know, like, she'll have to ask for $2.84 for his portion of a prescription and, you know, just maybe figuring out ways to make fun of him by posting those to people or tagging them. So there we also help people you know, if you want to play jokes on your ex, we have a lot of ideas on that
19:50
gotta find some lightness in there. There's got to be some light.
19:54
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
19:56
Yeah.
19:58
I was gonna say it's not it's not a time where sometimes is a lot of levity and humor and joy. So that makes a lot of sense. And, Heather, I know that, you know, with your coaching background, you also probably touch on the role piece. And but I'm also curious about the, your focus on real estate and why that is part of the part of the package, too, that you offer
20:18
it's just, I think it's so important, because a lot of people just again, going back to my own experience, I had no idea what I was doing none. And I've only learned, you know, in the last couple years, like how many people don't understand not only just a basic real estate transaction, but a real estate transaction as the result, and forced by a divorce is a whole nother level of stress and anxiety and trying to figure that out. So my whole thing with that is, you know, that's really where most of my income comes from. Because, you know, like I said, we are all, I'm a single mom, I'm working the whole thing. So that's been my focus really, because, you know, again, it is so complex, and there's so many layers to it. And if you don't know what you don't know, going into it, it can be devastating. And you have to make sure that you're protected in that process. And that if you have a neutral third party that can help you with that, which is what my role is, as a collaboration specialist. It means that I want to help both of the homeowners, after a divorce, still maintain home ownership eligibility, and how do we do that? And how does that make the most sense for everybody? And how do we make this work for all the parties involved. So that's really important to me, especially like, with my own background, and what I've been through,
21:37
Heather's really good, also it helping them understand that, you know, everybody wants to stay in the house, everybody getting a divorce is like,
21:44
Yeah, but it may not be the best decision
21:46
doesn't really work out for hardly anybody, even like high wealth people. And Heather hasn't because she has experience with the divorce and with the special collaboration certifications that she has. And the real estate, she's able to kind of really help people realize that how to detach from the house and how to make them realize that their future is going to be better. And this house doesn't signify anything. And so that's, that's really important to also the luck, you'll be surprised of how many people don't know, they think they're going to get you know, this, they get divorced, and think they're going to get a significant amount of money, amount of money, or even an insignificant amount. And they don't realize that, you know, unless they've been working hard, they're not going to qualify for a mortgage. So Heather's really key and also like, not, not giving, like legal advice, but being like just something to think about these things are going to be necessary for you to buy your house, which people don't. Yeah, we know. But no, it relies. Your attorney
22:46
doesn't tell you that. Yeah, no, they don't. Because a lot of times, the attorneys don't know, they don't know the complexities of the of the lending structure after a divorce and why you have to show a certain amount of payments and a certain amount of child support and alimony for however many years for to be qualified as income. And people go into this thinking, Oh, I have some money from this, I can turn around and do this. But a lot of times, they're very unfortunately surprised when they can't go and qualify for a mortgage, even though they might have a lot of cash, or they have a settlement, but it's only for two years. So that affects the IRS that affects the process and affects your settlement statement. And it's like, you need to be looking forward. And like in what do I want my life to look like in two years? Five years, 10 years? And it's like, how do we plan for that? And that dividing of assets like that is a very important and integral part of that.
23:38
Well, and I would think to I mean, part of what you said of looking forward, I'm a big proponent of that, like naming, naming the transition that's happening for you. And then as you come to terms with that, and looking at what you want next. At the same time, though, when there's a lot of emotion with that, that is really hard to do to cognitively say like, Where am I headed? Where are my goals? Where do I want to be? And so how, like, divorce is often a very emotional thing, whether you are choosing it or it is happening to you. Do you ever find that you have people who are second guessing their divorce? Or they are wondering if it's the right choice? And how they move forward? How do you support them with that to really get clear on on all the complexities of divorce along with their emotional state to really feel confident in their decision?
24:26
Well, it's interesting because I've had this happen, where a lot of people think of coaching is like, Oh, you know, what about this? What was this? And I'm like, I can't give you legal advice. Okay, that's not my role. I'm not an attorney. I'm not a financial planner. I can't there are certain questions that I can't answer. All I can tell you is if you're not sure, and you don't know the best thing you can do is gather information. Information is going to be key. So and not just information about you know, tangible things like assets and finances, things like that, but also emotional information. It's like, Am I really happy Is this, you know, as Teresa likes to say, you know, one of our tag lines is that we're not pro divorce, or pro knowledge. And if you're not ready, but you've been thinking about it, like Why, what's the hesitations? What are you unsure about, and a lot of people don't go through with it because they're like, I don't know about the kids or the house, or the finances, or what I'm gonna do when I don't have a job. And so there's a lot of questions from A to B, but I have had clients who, they're getting divorced, and then they reconcile, and then they decide to separate again, and it can be kind of a roller coaster. So
25:36
I definitely, I can agree with everything. Heather says, I definitely think that a lot of times I try to ask people, I try to figure out like, what have they done for themselves to try to find happiness? So is this really something to where you're just not happy? Because you either hate your job, or you're just bored? Or you've gained weight? or this or that? Like, what is it like, get yourself happy and healthy first? Because you're going to have to do that after the divorce. So might as well do it first? And then could that possibly make your relationship better? Great, you know, I mean, but there's no reason to be like, I hate everything about my life. So I'm going to get a divorce? Well, no, first try to make you be the best you that you can be. Unless there's I mean, honestly, like asterik for everything we say, unless there's abuse involved, or any kind of made religion. So if they can go through and talk about Well, yeah, I mean, I actually do like my job, or I actually do like this. And I and I do like this, and I am happy with myself. Sometimes that's also a reason when they decide they want to get a divorce, because they have evolved and they are growing, and they are the best person they can be. And they realize that this other person maybe isn't into the same kind of evolution that they are or whatever it is that you want to call it. Um, so you know, if they've been to therapy, whether it's couples or on their own, if they've seemed like they've worked on them selves, then, you know, and there's no major red flags. Again, it's not our decision to to decide for them. But I definitely, definitely do not think anybody wants to be divorced without saying they exhausted all everything that you do. I mean, unless you can be like I did everything I could do. You don't want to sit there and not have your kids on a Christmas and be like, good. I've worked it out, you know what I mean? Like, now he's doing that cute nail tech, and maybe I could have worked out like, you want to make sure that for yourself and not for anybody else that you have exhausted moment. I but I I also have to say one little thing too, when Heather said knowledge is power. A lot of people can get scared to get divorced, because they're kind of being bullied, that they can't do it. You don't I mean, the information that we'll give them is crazy. I mean, I'm going to take the house and have the kids full time and the person's like, Oh, I believe that because I have no knowledge that that's complete bullshit based on the law anywhere in the country, you know, so sometimes just, you know, knowing exactly what the law is meeting with the cdfa to figure out how much money am I going to have to make? I mean, mine is well, if you're not working at all, maybe get a job and start looking at your personal finances. You know, it just get your head wrapped around it before you just rush in and do it.
28:22
Yeah, well, and I think that idea of knowledge, both of what you are capable of and where where the landscape is right now both those are really, really important. I like that comment too, about how you are not necessarily pro divorce. But circling back to something you said early on Teresa, when you said you know getting divorced was was a really important step in my life too. I think part of the stigma around divorce in our society is still that like divorces, bad and divorces, you know, divorces, failure and all of that. But how? How would you suggest people reframe or read look at divorce? Not as you know, it's easy peasy and all sunshine and roses. But like what's the opportunity of divorce? As you move through it and learn from it and come out the other side? Like what what changes in a positive way? Or what's the opportunity after divorce?
29:14
I think if you can look at your life and forgive yourself on the decisions that you've made. You know, like, I forgive myself that I maybe decided to marry the wrong person and I knew it was the wrong person. But I maybe wanted to have kids or whatever the situation is for anybody. If you can forgive yourself for that instead of feeling guilty that you made that decision and it's going to haunt your entire life. And then as far as statistics go, I mean, it's clearly proven. Heather knows I've never say proven it. Any solid therapist will tell you that. If you're in a situation that is negative for any reason, and even being completely loveless is negative on children, then you do have the opportunity to have your kids thrive more After a divorce, if it's handled, you know, in a way where you're really focused on the kids, then staying in a marriage quote for the kids that doesn't exist, staying in a marriage for the kids doesn't make the kids any more emotionally or mentally sound in the future. So, to me, the opportunity would be, maybe my kids could possibly be better off if we do get divorced and do it the right way, which is difficult to do. But if we do it the right way, after, and maybe I'm able to forgive myself for these decisions that I've made, and go and be the best person I can be, without just thinking I need to live in the role of the person that I, you know, was when I was younger and made this decision. Hmm. You were 26.
30:41
Right? 25 got married 25. So Young, super young.
30:48
I mean, kids aren't even really getting married these days. So I mean, this, this will be an obsolete thing in 20 years, I'll be looking at divorce, but even got married back then. Like?
31:00
Heather, I know your work this year, especially has focused on teens and supporting teens coaching teens as as they, as they live in a divorce situation. And they're understanding divorce to their parents perspective. I also understand you're writing a book about this. Is that true? Fabulous. But why is understanding their parents perspective? You touched on this a little bit, but why? Why do you help them understand their parents perspective, along with setting their own goals and what they want.
31:28
So when the teen starts to be a little bit older, like in the 17th, and 18th range, and they're able to like cognitively look at it maybe from that's around the age, when kids can start to look at their parents really, as a human and not just as their parent, it's when they can, when their own identity isn't sacrificed when they realize their parents fault, which can happen when kids are younger than that they're so tied to their parents identity. So when they get to a certain age, if they can look at things a little bit more from their parents perspective, and parent being like just another, another human being like you, it can really start the healing process. As far as this divorce wasn't done to you. This divorce wasn't your fault. You know, this was something that was a decision that your parents made, because they thought that it would be the best thing for the whole family landscape in general. So I think that's really the first step in healing. I mean, I think as all of us, you know, it's like when we, if we have kids, when you have kids, you kind of start to forgive your parents for any complaints you have about being a kid, you know, like, Oh, my mom, my mom, never let me have friends spend the night and I had to take the bus instead of her picking me up. And then once you have kids and her job and your life, you start to look at it as like, Oh, I'm kind of starting to understand my parents position now. So with having the book written to a young adult, you know, teen audience, it to me it kind of, instead of them realizing later in life, like Oh, I get it now, from my parents perspective, it's written in a tone in a way to help facilitate that thinking at a younger age. So the healing process can, can start.
33:04
Yeah, and I think the the healing of that is so key. I mean, you touched on that before of the idea of staying in a marriage because it's for the kids. But that idea of actually helping the kids understand that decision and move through it in a healthy way feels a lot healthier for them that transition too
33:20
On another note, Heather, I mean, one thing, that's a really, honestly, a big deal is that, I mean, if you're I'm forty...., how old am I? Are you 47,
33:31
I'm 47, I'm 48.
33:33
So if you are anywhere around our age group, and you're getting a divorce, there's a good chance that they're what you'd never even online dated, there's a chance it back when you were dating, none of it was online. So imagine going through all this, and then on the top of it, people are expecting you to be like swiping right, and like, what the hell is this?
33:52
So
33:53
another thing that we help people with to is helping them understand what dating life is like now, because it is a lot different than it was when you know, they were younger. And what are the expectations out there? You know, is it is it true that people are, you know, the third date, you know, rumor that what happens on that date, I mean, like, you know, I'm saying and so it's that's a whole nother world too for people that in our age group, right, Heather?
34:19
Absolutely.
34:21
I'm imagining all these conversations don't happen in like one meeting together cuz I'm, I'm imagining sitting down to me like, okay, let's look at your business portfolio. Now let's talk about how the kids are getting healthy. And now let's let's look at, uh, you know, Tinder and talk about Tinder.
34:37
But I want to start with the dating conversation. They're so excited to get into like, Okay,
34:42
how do I get on Bumble? And I'm like, Okay, first of all, we need to think about this, maybe file my journey, because some people really that is there. We have people on a leash sometimes and be like, Listen, for everybody's sake. Let's go to the dating. Yeah.
34:57
Again, the complexities. And Heather how's your work evolving in this moment to both in terms of your real estate in your work with clients?
35:06
It's very busy right now. And I find myself being more selective because again, like I said, a lot of times people think of a divorce coach is just kind of free legal advice. So it's, you know, unless you're kind of committing to the process and all that goes along with it. So I've been a little bit more choosy, I guess, you could say, discerning, and the clients that I take on, because it is a commitment. And it's a lot of work. And it's a lot of emotional management. Yeah, right now, with everything that's going on in the world, we're seeing a spike in divorce rates with COVID. And that is all starting to come to a head because people have been stuck together for a long time. And it's like, oh, my God, I don't like you at all, we have to get this done. So there's a, you know, I think we're positioned really well right now. And I don't mean to say that from an opportunistic standpoint, but just that a lot of people are gonna need a lot of questions answered and a lot of help. And that's what we're here to do.
36:01
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I wanted to ask that specifically, because I think that I've read a lot of articles about that, in this last year of the pandemic, that people people are asking all kinds of hard questions, whether it's what job am I in? And isn't making me happy to? Is this where I want to live? And then the spouse question to me, is this who I want to spend my time with? And so what would you recommend for people who are asking those hard questions like, what are some of the first steps that that you would recommend people take?
36:31
Well, I think I what Teresa said is really true. It's like take a look at your life, and take stock of where you're at. and ask yourself some really hard questions like, Am I just wanting to get divorced? Because I've been stuck inside with this guy and how he chooses food drives me absolutely insane. I can't stand that I have to get out of here. Like, is that it? Or is it deeper than that? It's like, Okay, so what kind of introspection and what kind of hard questions? Have you asked yourself first, which is like, is this a situational thing? Or is this truly a happiness thing? You know, is it on a seriousness level on a one to 10? Where are you at with that?
37:09
You know, is it COVID? Is it situational? Is it the results of the last, you know, if the pilot the politics that are going on right now, I think you have to look at the outside influences as well. And really weigh those and like, how important is this? How much is this really affecting my decision making? And you don't want to jump into something for the wrong reasons. So really, kind of ask yourself those hard questions, because you just need a second master bedroom. Exactly. I think that helps I do our second house. I mean, I'm all I'm first ever houses, like, you know, I think I think it's the wave of the future. I'm like, you know, split floorplan, how about just split households? I'll see you, you know, by, yeah, we could save a lot of marriages, just with this contact.
38:01
I was gonna say that, and then they could still benefit from working with you, right?
38:06
I think it's the wave of the future. You can quote me on that.
38:09
And your experience as a real estate as a realtor has no, no bearing on that either. Right?
38:14
All right, ladies, is there anything else? We haven't touched on that you you feel like needs to be spoken at this point? All right. So Valentine's Day coming up? For people who are experiencing divorce right now or have gone through a divorce? What are your recommendations or suggestions for them?
38:34
Yeah, book a couple dates on Valentine's Day, like you could do a lunch, a happy hour, and then a dinner, you know, different dates, different flowers.
38:42
I would say that if you are divorced, and you're single, I think it's a good time to juggle exactly how we get multiple gifts. You know, there's no reason not to let multiple people think that they're the only one. And just take advantage of it. You know, you can't if you're married, you can't really do that. But if you can, if you are single, you know, it's a good time. Make sure right after Christmas, you start dating a ton. And then by Valentine's Day, you get a lot of gifts. That holidays actually, to me don't don't mean a lot at all. I think that you realize when you're divorced, that they're all just a specific day that don't have a ton of meaning they just bring a lot of pain to a lot of people. If you don't have your kids that day. You know, as we get older, we all start to realize that Mother's Day probably is more painful for more people in the world than happy. So it is something though that when people get divorced, that is something that they get really upset about is holidays. So it's something about kind of letting the importance of holidays. Go and build your own traditions and meaningful rituals with your kids and family that are separate from that
39:46
It makes me think to that in in the pandemic that's actually been been something that's leveled out for everybody that holidays just look different period for everyone this year and I and I personally even felt like some of the emotional expectations. were lowered substantially this year because you just couldn't be together with everybody for Thanksgiving or whatever. And so maybe that's maybe that's one of the lasting lessons of of this time to whether you're divorced or not is just, holidays don't have to hold the emotion that we think they do and work hard to celebrate.