Business of Endurance

When Champions Speak: The Season 9 Journey

• Charlie Reading • Season 9 • Episode 11

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Welcome to the final episode of Season 9 of The Business of Endurance.

This season has taken us on an incredible journey - from Chris Williams of Supertri sharing his Atlantic rowing adventure and boardroom battles, to Paul Kaye, an unmistakable voice of Ironman, revealing how he built a career from scratch.

We’ve heard from trailblazing entrepreneur Simon Dent, Ironman legend Kathleen McCartney, cycling world champion Richard Oakes, and even AI Charlie - exploring how technology is reshaping sport and business.

And to top it off, Olympic great Alistair Brownlee, British Cycling CEO John Dutton OBE, Ironman champion Matt Trautman, and the incomparable Chris McCormack have all joined us with powerful lessons in resilience, mindset, and creating lasting impact.

Season 10 is coming soon and it promises to be even bigger.

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Charlie Reading:

it's a wrap. That is season nine of the business of endurance podcast done. Wow, what a season it has been. We've had some incredible guests, I've learned a huge amount and we've just just been inspired by some brilliant people, some sensational conversations and some spectacular stories. When we look at the back end of this podcast, then we see something really interesting. We see that 57% of the people that regularly listen to it haven't hit the subscribe button.

Charlie Reading:

So could I ask you a quick favor before we dive into today's episode? If you're enjoying Claire and I bringing you amazing guests, not asking you for patronage fees and not jamming the podcast full of adverts, then the best way you can help us continue to do that and continue to make it even better is to hit that subscribe button. And here's my promise to you when you subscribe we'll make it our mission, along with the team that supports us, to continue to improve this podcast every week. So thank you so much for your support and for being a part of the business of endurance community. Let's dive in. And the first guest was chris williams of super try, so claire. What did you? What do you make of the conversation with chris? What did you get out of it. What do you remember?

Claire Fudge:

you know what stood out for you I love the story of super try and I know obviously we were talking about how he got into Supertri, but just really learning also his background, you know the fact that he's an endurance athlete himself and he attempted to or rode the Atlantic and also had that big rescue as well. So I think you know talking about how endurance and that mindset comes into you know, being in a being in a boardroom and creating or being part of that creation of um. Super try was yeah, it was a fantastic episode. We've had a really good balance, haven't we, of, of, you know, business professionals and ex-pro athletes this season, which has been fantastic. What about paul k? Because we also then had interviewed paul k, hadn't we?

Charlie Reading:

well, we interviewed Paul Kaye, and what a legend. I mean like he's the voice that I have crossed the Ironman. Finish two line I think every time and just brilliant.

Charlie Reading:

And what I loved about the conversation with Paul Kaye was how he crafted his career. I mean, he had to be big and bold, to kind of go after that career, because I hadn't realized until I started doing the research that he wasn't employed by Ironman. So he went off on a tangent to become, to basically create a job that didn't exist, and he drew on his experience as a radio producer and he drew on his experience of setting up jazz concerts for his dad. He drew as an experience of as being an ultra, an Ironman athlete, and he brought all of that together to create this fantastic theatre around the star and end of the Ironman. And whilst he didn't come up with the line, you are an Ironman. That was obviously Mike Reilly. He's definitely added to that, but I know he's also called you over the finish line. So what did you make of that conversation with Paul?

Claire Fudge:

Isn't it strange, though, to like actually see the voice interview them that actually you've heard so many times in a very other emotional state of like of crossing a finish line.

Claire Fudge:

I thought it was really fascinating and actually one of the you know, you've just touched on it there. One of the really fascinating parts was how he really choreographs the music and actually when you step back and think about when you have been at you know the start line or the finish line, that really helps an athlete, doesn't it? And actually him talking through why they craft it the way that they do and choreograph it the way they do with the music, I thought was really really interesting. But just amazing stories and really, like him talking about you know the why and his why and why that drives us all um and how he's really able to get to um, that really kind of emotional place in an athlete during that event when you're practically crawling, you know, across the finish line. Just an amazing, amazing interview and just learned so much more about him, and actually that you know area of commentating as well. Now you interviewed Simon Dent. I wasn't there, unfortunately, but I did listen back and tell me what you took away from the heated shoe idea.

Charlie Reading:

Well, I got loads from that interview and it was way more than just heated shoes. So what? What I think was amazing? I mean, obviously he's done some amazing things in the endurance world himself, so that was that was fantastic to hear.

Charlie Reading:

What I've loved, what I loved about that conversation was his ability to set up companies in industries that he had no previous experience in whether it was being a sports agent, whether it was publishing, whether it was marketing, and then build a successful business and then be able to sell that business or to have that business running without him. So that, to me, was a phenomenal demonstration of how you can build a business but without being bogged down in the weeds and also without having to you know, because actually most entrepreneurs tend to be the greatest bottleneck in their business, and Simon done a great job of showing how that's not necessary, because he'd had these business that is grown, but he didn't. He wasn't even the expert in that field, so that I really loved. And of course, there was the Atacama, the heated shoe, the kind of the thing that allows your shoes to last longer. I loved also that that promise of the donations that are offsetting the little bit of plastic that has to go into it, then donating to a charity that took a plastic out of the ocean. So I thought that was a really nice corporate play as well, and I think I think we can all learn from that.

Charlie Reading:

And it probably actually goes back to that, that principle that you've just talked about with Paul, and and really knowing your why and when you know your why and you can communicate your why, then people have so much more connection with what you're doing. So so that was that was, um, yeah, a really interesting interview, and of course, he's about the. You know when this goes live. He probably will have already done it or he might be in the middle of it. I'm not quite sure the timings, but he's about to run with some other rugby players between each of the lions tests, and so that's going to be a phenomenal amazing achievement, as well as raising a huge amount of money for charity.

Charlie Reading:

I'm sure and then, next up, we had the incredible Kathleen McCartney, who I was lucky enough to hang out with a couple of times, actually while I was out in Kona, and yeah, I mean, obviously she was part of that amazing moment in Iron man history. But what did you get from the interview with Kathleen McCartney?

Claire Fudge:

I, we, you know we interviewed some amazing people but, like, this is one of the old school legends and to interview her was just amazing because actually starting out in Ironman as I'm sure many of our listeners who do Ironman will also agree it's like you hear of these names, you read the stories, you watch those videos that we see now on YouTube Just amazing. So to interview her and find out the story behind actually again, why did she do you know? Why was she taking part in Ironman? Um, you know this really inexperienced um, uh, student in college and she wins the 1982 Ironman and of course, we heard about her side of the story with Judy Moss as well and really you know what she, she, she came back to endurance sports, you know, after she had her children and that story was amazing to hear about how actually that really helped her after children, kind of re-find what you know, what she was looking for and, of course, through divorce as well. What did you take from the interview?

Charlie Reading:

I think I mean mean agree, it was brilliant um to hear her side of the story, um, of that iconic Julie Moss moment. Um was was tremendous. But I also loved how she used she talked about the community around Ironman and you know, when she was going through her divorce and also when Julie was going through her divorce, they came together and that community helped, they supported each other and they went off and did an Iron man together so that they could help each other through that divorce. But also the power of that community to help them through difficult times really shone through with Kathleen, really shone through with Kathleen. And I think and and probably it shone through for me because I witnessed it firsthand when I saw, you know, I got to hang out with people like her and and Mark Allen in Kona and it just that, that um, that tribe, that community really shone through um in that environment. So, yeah, absolutely brilliant. And then next up, we had the incredible Richard Oakes of track cycling and Business Consultancy. So what do you remember from the interview with Richard?

Claire Fudge:

Well, we kind of went in lots of different directions, didn't we? Interviewing Richard? And he's got, you know, I mean, first of all, you know, listening to his stories behind you know him himself being a four time world champion, a national record holder, as well as having a team as well, I think it was it the world's fastest cycling team, I think. Was that correct?

Charlie Reading:

I think there was something along. I think there's a tagline of something like that. Yeah.

Claire Fudge:

Yeah, so he's brought you know and talks about his experience of being this world class athlete, but also now he's coaching and teaching businesses how to perform under pressure as well. So I thought that was a really interesting conversation that brought those two parts very much together being the athlete whilst being a professional in business and then going into businesses and coaching as well. So I thought that was a really, really interesting interview with him.

Charlie Reading:

And I would agree, I think he brought out a huge. So I think he's clearly very, very detail orientated in terms of getting the very best out of his performances, both on the track or on the bike and in business. And I think you know that story of where he is setting the hour record and he falls off the bike because he's given absolutely every ounce of energy he's got and he falls off and he breaks his collarbone but he still has to finish the lap for it to be a qualifying record, so he finishes the lap. I mean that's just incredible. I think that's fantastic. And then I think how we continued throughout that episode to draw the lessons from the world of endurance sport and apply them to business. I thought that was, that was excellent and it's and you know, that's really worth listening to that episode for that principle alone, I think.

Charlie Reading:

Um, and then we had a rather unusual guest, didn't we? We had AI Charlie on. What did you make? Because you hadn't seen as much of AI Charlie as obviously I'd seen building it. So what did you make of having my AI clone?

Claire Fudge:

yeah. Well, I mean you're, you're very close to AI Charlie, of course, charlie, so do you know what I? I found it like I think there were so many, there were so many kind of parts to this, to this episode as well, because one actually seeing what is possible if you utilize AI in a way that can really help your business, and I think that's number one that came out for me. I was like actually like, if you feed the right information and use the right type of AI in your business, it be really, really useful. And I love the way that, with all the information that you had given AI Charlie, it was able to recall and actually have a conversation with you. I mean that was excellent. Like there were yes, there was a little bit of delay, wasn't there, but but the actual conversation, um, there was actually a little bit of kind of him being a little bit funny as well. I don't know whether you built that in Charlie or not.

Claire Fudge:

Obviously it's taken that from me, hasn't it? Yeah, well, obviously, obviously, yeah, I won't say that he was a bit slow with his replies, but you know, I don't know where he got that from, but I thought it was brilliant and actually what was great is that you could ask a specific question and it was able to draw on all of those, all of those interviews that that we've done in the past and actually that you've done right from the very, you know, very beginning, which was super interesting to see which, which episodes and which guests it drew upon to give an example. So I really loved it. Actually, it's a really good episode to go back and listen to and actually reminded me as well of episodes that I haven't remembered and thought actually I'm going to listen to that, and even some that when I wasn't a co-host that I thought actually I haven't listened to. That that's actually sounds brilliant. So I loved it. I really enjoyed it.

Charlie Reading:

I thought it was spectacular, wasn't it? I mean it? Just like I wasn't quite sure, obviously, when we recorded that. I wasn't quite sure whether we were going to be brave enough to actually use it as an episode, because, you know, you're never quite convinced particularly what fascinated me I mean, I knew it had the knowledge, because I've obviously made sure all of that is uploaded and I've had conversations with it before about that stuff to test it but what fascinated me was whether two people iee me and you interviewing it as co-hosts would confuse it. That's what.

Charlie Reading:

what intrigued me and in fact, other than us getting confused and realizing that we needed to kind of give it a chance to. You know, we needed to pause, to give it a chance to, to were and come up with it, which is only like seconds, isn't it? But I thought it was amazing and, you're right, it reminded me of some stories that I had, or examples in situations where I wouldn't have remembered that that was a particular thing. So it's really powerful and, yeah, it's, and it's something that I would. If you go to the trust to see website, by the way, you can actually go and chat to ai charlie. You can ask AI Charlie some questions about which episodes you should listen to, or how you can fuel your races better, or whatever it is. Um, there's, just go play around with it. It's, it's unbelievable.

Charlie Reading:

And then, next up, we had somebody I've wanted to have on the podcast for forever. Actually, he was one of the first people I thought of when we started the podcast. He was right at the top of the list and finally we managed to have an amazing interview with him, and that was, of course, alistair Brownlee. So what did you make from that interview?

Claire Fudge:

It was great because, you know, like you, I think, in this era and we were just chatting before this in this era of Olympic distance and triathlon and sport, these are the names that come to mind, aren't they?

Claire Fudge:

They are the names of the UK, of these brothers, and so interviewing Alistair was just fantastic and you know, he really came across as being a really humble, very deep thinking human being, and I think there was so much that came out of this interview about who he really is and the person, the human behind this really high performing athlete, um and and really interesting about him talking about you know his identity and finding his space in this world of retirement as well. You know where do you go after competing at such a high level and being in the limelight the whole time? Where does that take you? You know how is he managing time. Where does that take you? You know how is he managing. So I mean, that was just you know, the edge of what we explored. But you know what, for you, did you really sort of take away from that, from that conversation, that that we had?

Charlie Reading:

there was a few things. I loved the advice that he got from Malcolm, his coach, which was you can basically Malcolm teaching him that he could win, but only by a stride. So it was like you're capable of winning, but don't be cocky about it. You've got to give everything, and if you give everything, you're absolutely capable of winning, but only by a stride. So that I really loved and I've used that a couple of times since, because I think it's really powerful message. And then other message which actually all came out of that same conversation between him and Malcolm was that pressure is a privilege. You know, when you're feeling the pressure, it's because you've earned the opportunity to feel the pressure, and I think that's also a really powerful message which I really liked. So, yeah, I thought it was a fantastic interview and I was delighted to get the opportunity to chat to him.

Charlie Reading:

He was actually speaking at an event um near my home a few few weeks ago. My best man well, not unfortunately, but my best man was over from kuala lumpur and it just happened to be that same time that we were, we were meeting up, so I couldn't. I couldn't go see him speak, but just like, like you say, just a really humble, lovely, lovely guy that has given so much to the sport and so many amazing stories, including that special moment with his brother helping his brother across the line in Cosmel. And then next up, we had John Dutton OBE, the CEO of British Cycling. So what do you remember from that interview, claire?

Claire Fudge:

uh, the ceo of british cycling. So what do you remember from that interview, claire? Yeah, so we'd both met him when you were speaking at an event um a few months before, didn't we? Um, so we we'd got to know him a little bit and it was it.

Claire Fudge:

I mean, he's fantastic to interview actually, to start off with well, I wouldn't even say interview, like he's.

Claire Fudge:

He's a really good storyteller, um, you know, and his experience you you know.

Claire Fudge:

He just told of, like, where he's come from and you know, from that background in, um, the rugby league world cup, and you know what happened during that time, um, you know, through to um, obviously, um, leading British cycling into Paris 2024. So there were so many stories that he told and, and all of which they all had a purpose, I guess, to his storytelling. You know what it taught him, what he learned from it and actually how he has then changed, how he is now in his role as CEO in British Cycling. So I just thought it was really interesting and he touched a lot on as we have with many guests, on this idea of why actually, you know, mindset is so important and I don't know, you know almost that that was as important. I'm not sure if you had the same feeling as you know, looking at physiology and you know, and, of course, the bike in terms of you know athletes. I just thought it was a really, it was a really good episode for me to listen to and actually really learn from.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, no, I would agree. I think I was just looking down at my notes actually because it was a brilliant conversation with with John I mean I love, genuinely, just lovely guy, like you say. We got the opportunity to have dinner with him when I was speaking at the RAC club and you know he talked wonderfully about company culture and the importance of culture and you know how he measured that through a happiness index, which I thought was fantastic, embracing the challenge and being sort of bold and brave I thought I loved that term that he used a few times and making permanent and positive change and kind of understanding values. And I particularly remember him talking about how they used their values to make the decision about whether to go ahead with the Rugby World Cup or not, and when they looked at the values they were like we've got to push ahead with this, even though Covid is kind of putting the massive roadblock in the way. So I think there was a lot of brilliant, um, brilliant insights from a business point of view as well as from a sporting point of view as well. And then and then we ended up with that.

Charlie Reading:

So then the next episode was matty troutman, wasn't it? And he was the south african ironman athlete, um, that had a horrible, horrible crash, getting taken out from behind by by a car, and then he battles to recover through that, uh, and, and you know, just does, you know, has to clearly work very hard, both psychologically and physiologically, to get back to the point where he can race iron man again as a professional and then to have when, when I was racing in south af Africa last year, he got, he gets blown clean off the bike, um, after hitting a pothole and I think you know a little bit of air and again and that ends his career. Um, I thought that was a really interesting and inspiring conversation in the sense that he had to, you know, he had to battle through that that twice and um, so, yeah, I, I, I really enjoyed that, that interview, and I think, I think there's a lot of lessons that we can draw from on that. And then the final interview was Maka.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, Again another absolute legend from the world of Iron man. So, chris McCormack Maka, what did you make of that interview?

Claire Fudge:

I totally agree. Again, you know some of the people that I think we had a little conversation after we finished um, that episode and I didn't say it to him at the time but maybe I should have is the first year that I did. I did Ironman, um, when I was first competing, is the year that I think he'd won the world championships and he was the name right, like he was the name that people wanted to to beat. There were those stories that he was talking about. You, like he was the name that people wanted to to beat and there were those stories that he was talking about. You know this idea of what the media was portraying him, as you know, and he, you know he was rightly talking about. Actually, at the time there were magazines, right, you, you read it in a magazine and whereas now athletes have this very different voice on social media and can create their own story about themselves rather, or you know, being that human being, rather than somebody else creating that story behind him. So I was really interested because I actually came into this thinking you know Chris McCormack, the person that he was portrayed in a magazine, to speaking to him. What a different character. I just thought, like it's so funny. I mean I don't think I've laughed so much in an episode.

Claire Fudge:

He was just brilliant, like you know, really fun to listen to and I just love this kind of story of him, just like nothing was going to stop him, was it? You know his story of, like you know, in his teens, like going and living in France, like it just got worse and worse, didn't it? Of like how he was going to survive and I just loved it. That this kind of pursuit of triathlon and like making it work, the story with his dad and moving away from Australia just thought was just amazing and I loved. I mean, I'd love to hear your take on it. Actually, what was your take on the? The story behind you being your own CEO and then really having your your team around you when you're an athlete?

Charlie Reading:

um, I, I thought it was. It was absolutely brilliant, it was epic and it was probably. I think it's one of those episodes and there's been plenty over, over, the, over the, I don't know what I've been doing this five years now maybe, I think. I think I've been doing the podcast five years and there's occasionally episodes where you go in thinking this will be a good one and it's way, way.

Charlie Reading:

you know, it's like one of the best and I didn't immediately see it coming, even though I really loved his book. It just stood out for so many reasons. But I think this what I really liked was his approach as a teenager when he was a teenager or early 20s, I can't remember but when he was young and he and he left that business job and he moved to France and he pursued triathlon with really kind of like, basically I'm gonna make it work, but it's gonna be, you know, like I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm gonna find my way.

Claire Fudge:

he pursued but I think that actually helped him, didn't it the fact?

Charlie Reading:

he didn't really know what he was doing but the same approach has now worked phenomenally well in business for him. You know he's like oh yeah, yeah, I can do that. I've kind of done this before and I'm just like I haven't.

Charlie Reading:

I mean like and then work out how to do it yeah, if you sell it first and then you work out how to deliver it afterwards, and I think that's brilliant. You know his, his confidence of going yeah, I can work that out. How difficult can that be? Come on, let's get going, get some commitment and and actually his enthusiasm was infectious and you can see why in business, why people will go. Yeah, he must know what he's talking about, of course, you know, because good energy kind of has people following and so I thought that was brilliant. Um, and yeah, just that whole idea of selling super try and how he got the Thai hot hotel and kind of fitness resort yeah, up and up and run it, just I mean, that was just so many great stories wasn't there and and obviously his stories around the Kona winds and and the Kona disasters and his humbling and his smack talking to other competitors.

Charlie Reading:

I mean, there's just so much there isn't there.

Claire Fudge:

Yeah, there is.

Charlie Reading:

And what a wonderful episode to finish what has been a phenomenal, phenomenal season. So that's our wrap up for season nine, but fear ye not, you're not going to have long to wait for season 10 and, as a bit of a kind of like teaser, we've got some rather incredible people lined up for season 10. Now we're going to keep them a secret, of course, yes, but give, giving me a bit of a description of a couple of people that you've, we know, we've got lined up for season 10 that you're, you think, are going to be special interviews well, what I would say is we have some old school, which is exciting again to interview some very old school people, which will be fantastic and actually just I'm just looking at the names down the list and we have quite a few of those.

Claire Fudge:

It's pretty deep in some amazing people. I am excited from a physiology perspective, like super excited, because that's my space. So I'm really excited to interview one of these people on the list in particular, dipping into a little bit of other areas as well. So what about for you?

Charlie Reading:

I think you're right, so that there's. There's two names from the, maybe three, two names from the, historically like two names that are so synonymous with endurance sport that it's just it's. It's freaking awesome.

Claire Fudge:

That is, that is what all I will say if it came up in a pub quiz, you definitely would remember it honestly just unbelievable.

Charlie Reading:

um and and then you're right, there's a real interesting mix, and I think there's a good couple of corporate speakers in there that can give us a really brilliant insight in both that relationship between business and sport, and I think there's some. I think there's two names that stand out there the physiology person I know exactly who you're talking about and that's going to be really exciting. We haven't interviewed her yet. We'll give a little teaser around that, but that's going to be really cool. Yeah, we've got some amazing episodes lined up, some amazing interviews, some of which we've already done, and we know they're amazing, some of which we haven't done yet. So stay tuned for season 10 of the Business of Endurance podcast. It'll be out soon and in the meantime, keep on training.