Business of Endurance

Season Ten: How Icons Of Sport Turn Pain And Setbacks Into Fuel For Life And Business

• Charlie Reading • Season 10 • Episode 9

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Welcome to the final episode of Season 10 of The Business of Endurance.

This season has taken us from the boardroom to Kona, via high mountains and some of the most demanding races on the planet. We kicked off with Chris Brindley MBE, sharing leadership lessons, critical thinking frameworks and the link between elite sport and high-performing businesses, before hearing from Ironman legend Julie Moss as she relived the iconic “crawl” in Kona and what it taught her about worthiness, vulnerability and grit.

We were joined by Dr Stacy Sims, whose pioneering work in female physiology is changing how women train, fuel and recover, and by João Andrade, founder of the 100 Series, who opened up about burnout, cardiac collapse mid-race, and how it forced him to completely rethink his life and work–life balance.

Sean Conway returned as our first-ever repeat guest to unpack his “Endurance Grand Slam” – including 105 Ironmans in 105 days – and the mindset behind having no Plan B. Ultra-running great Ryan Sands then took us deep into true adventure with stories from Lesotho, Western States and beyond, where culture, risk and resilience collide.

We closed the season with four-time Ironman world champion Chrissie Wellington OBE, exploring mental toughness, solitude, eating disorders in elite sport, coaching philosophies and the psychological pillars that underpin world-class performance.

In this wrap-up episode, Charlie and Claire revisit the key lessons, emotional moments and recurring themes from each of these conversations, and share why Season 10 has been one of the most powerful yet.

We're going to have a break now Season 10 has finished but you can still dive into our back catalogue of over 150 episodes and explore even more stories from the world’s best endurance athletes, adventurers and coaches.

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Charlie Reading:

We've had some incredible guests. We've had some unbelievable conversations, and it has been just insight after learning after emotion. So welcome back to the Business of Endurance podcast. And Claire and I are here to summarize what has been an incredible season 10 of the Business of Endurance. We've had some incredible guests, we've had some unbelievable conversations, and it has been just insight after learning after emotion after just like so many cool things. So what we want to do for this episode is to dive into uh just a like kind of a refresh of each of those episodes that we um that we've had in season 10 uh and then give you some snippets of the wisdom that our guests have shared. So Claire, uh let's dive in with um Chris Brindley. So he was the first guest on season 10 and absolutely brilliant, packed full of so much wisdom. So do you want to pick out a couple of things that stood out for you in that conversation with Chris?

Claire Fudge:

I think we, you know, we've had such a variety of people, haven't we, in professionals? And I think Chris's um uh interview really kind of crossed uh kind of all of those kind of borders, didn't they? And I guess for me, um working with you know Olympic and professional athletes, he he talked and and sort of dived into a little bit about his work not only with um Olympic athletes, but also into big businesses as well. Um and I guess it just it kind of refocused that working in and across sport and into business, there are so many um correlations between the two and so much that you can learn um and bring to kind of both areas, and that really brings together, does it not, the business of endurance in general. Um so yeah, that for me was a real highlight, but I know you know he talked about the frameworks he used. Um what about for you? Because I know some of this really touched on your area, you know, in terms of your coaching as well, and and some of the things that you coach your team about.

Charlie Reading:

Well, I I agree, and I thought it was a brilliant interview, and I didn't quite know what to expect with with uh interviewing Chris because obviously a lot of his background was business with you know um managing uh Metro Bank. Uh but uh he just brought out so many brilliant insights that crossed sport and business. And whether that was I loved the way, I mean, you you know I love a framework where we're in the trusted team, we're always talking about different frameworks and because it makes it um easier to recall as the coach, but it also makes it easier to remember as the person that's it's being explained to. So I loved the way he had different frameworks to think about, uh whether that was the the three revolutions of thinking or so many other different ideas. Um so that to me was was brilliant. I loved it when he dived into his critical thinking um approach as well. And I I think that that was a really powerful part of the conversation. Um, but just like so much wisdom, I think I might have written more notes for Chris's episode than I wrote for any other episode of season 10.

Claire Fudge:

It was um so it's definitely one to dive back into, is it not? To listen to.

Charlie Reading:

It is, it absolutely is. And let's dive into a snippet from the interview with Chris Brinley now.

Chris Brindley:

I invited Humphrey Walters to come and speak to our team, and one of his opening slides was about managers and leaders, and the word manus um is is Latin for hands-on, so manager is hands-on, which is you know, getting into the detail. And leader or leder L-A-E-D-E was Latin for the route ahead. So, therefore, that's when I realized that managers get paid for the hands and leaders get paid for the brains. And my first ever job player was printing checkbooks in a bank. It was, you know, the the entry role. Nobody actually asked me about strategy or or what did I think. I was given a load of checkbooks and told to print them. So I'm pretty sure that my early days was hands-on and just managing my own expectations as well as my own workload. But I do believe that is the best example that I've ever had in my career from Humphrey. And he's got a great book called The Little Book of Winning, and it is little, but it's powerful. And that for me was always how I would talk to people about we get paid for our critical thinking and ideas are free. And I know we'll come on to the subject of ideas a little bit later, and therefore, even if your job's hands-on, I do still ask you questions about what do you think? How could you make it better? So that's that's the reality behind it. You know, on a leadership journey, I talk about leading self, leading others, and leading a business. And everybody's a leader because everybody has the privilege of leading themselves, how they choose to behave, how they choose to interact, how they choose to speak to others. Um, and then you get the privilege of leading others. You know, if I had a pound for every time I met somebody who just got into their first management or leadership role, who said, Chris, I just wish everybody would think like me. And the reality is they don't because we're all different. What your job is perhaps as your first leader is to get people to think about the organization, about the customer, about colleagues, about the future, about learning, about continuous improvement. So, therefore, that's then not leading others. And then when you start to lead a business, actually you're so far away from the process in many occasions. And I had the privilege of being the managing director for Nat West for the North of England of Scotland. There's over 5,000 people in our in our team, and I never once served on the counter, Claire. But as the managing director, I was responsible for every transaction that went on in the 435 outlets of Nat West. I couldn't do, and I couldn't physically serve every customer in every branch, but I needed to think about how every customer got served, got served well. We we engaged them, we gave them the right amount of money, we did the right projects, all of that stuff. So for me, I've been through that journey of hands-on at Nat West, right through to being responsible for every transaction. But I physically couldn't do it, so I had to then think about how best to get it done through the team that I had in play.

Charlie Reading:

Well, that was a fantastic conversation with Chris Brindley, and then we went on to the legend that is Julie Moss, the lady that possibly has the most iconic moment in all of Iron Man history, that incredible crawl across the finish line in Kona. Um, and not to win the Iron Man World Championships, but actually to finish second behind Kathleen McCartney. So, what did you take from the from the conversation with with Julie Claire?

Claire Fudge:

She is one of the legends in sport, you know, that's not wrong in saying that. And um, I guess as a female athlete that is up there with, you know, a number of female athletes who really sparked, I guess, endurance for females and the fact that we could be in the same space, compete with, you know, men on the same course. Um, so it was just amazing to interview her and actually find out the, even though it was many years ago, find out the real story behind uh the pictures and the grainy pictures, right, that we see today when we watch some of those uh that video footage back. And the fact that she, you know, it was there on kind of more of a whim, it was a thesis, wasn't it, that she was doing at the time. And I just I just think it just showed pure grit and determination. Um, so it was just amazing to interview her.

Charlie Reading:

It was, and I loved, I loved hearing the story in the lead up to that iconic moment and uh just absolutely brilliant. But but actually what I also thought was fascinating was what happened after that in terms of the whole media explosion and her journey through that that kind of crazy world of of suddenly becoming this you know, the center of this iconic experience. Um and um yeah, I just think it was uh it was absolutely brilliant. And what I also what I also loved um about chatting to Julie, amongst so many other topics that we talked about, was how she'd used Iron Man as a tool to navigate difficult parts of her life, particularly through her divorce. I think that was just it was really, really powerful. Um so let's dive into a snippet of Julie telling the story of the uh the crawl of fame, shall we call it? It struck a note with me, the 6th of February 1982. Not only defined you as an endurance athlete, but also was like an unbelievable moment in the in the world of Iron Man and sparked a global endurance movement, I think. So I want you to just start by taking us to that moment, that that moment that you were approaching the Kona finish line, your first Iron Man, one of the first Ironmans. What were you thinking about as you were approaching the finish, but struggling to kind of get to that finish line?

Julie Moss:

Okay, Charlie, you're just gonna cut right to the chase, aren't you? That the thought that was in my mind was to win. And that wasn't something that was very novel to me. Let's just say it never existed before, other than you know, playing Monopoly or something as a kid. But winning was not a part of my persona. It was not something that I was used to. I wasn't a competitive athlete of any kind. I I participated in sport in school, but to find myself in the position of leading the Iron Man and knowing ABC cameras are on me, and all of that was just wildly uncharted territory. So to be leading the race and then to kind of have this concept of myself as someone who could even be leading a race, all of that was just that was a big bag, mixed bag of emotions that I was dealing with. So the physical struggle really probably took me out of my head and just made me focus on just literally putting one foot in front of the other. And at that moment where I fell the first time, because there were four falls before I had to crawl. It was really about just figuring it, figuring out how to keep moving, how to keep moving forward. And I think everyone who's been involved in endurance sports of any kind has had that moment where all you can think about is how to keep moving forward, fighting all the emotions that go with that, all the disappointments of now being on the ground when you should be running towards a finish line. All of that was coming down to this finite point of how do I keep moving forward? So it sounds kind of clinical, really, that because it was very emotional, but all I could do was figure out how to get up off the ground when I fell, how to keep moving forward. Once I got off of the ground, could I could I walk? And if I could walk, then I had to try and run. I had to try and win. So really forward motion with the drive of trying to win for something for the first time, and it had to be a very big thing, in my case, was all I was thinking about.

Charlie Reading:

And what do you think shifted in you during those last moments of the Iron Man? What do you think changed in you mentally?

Julie Moss:

Okay, well, we have to go back. It was about mile 18 when when there was a real shift. It wasn't in those last moments that the shift happened about mile 18 out on the marathon course. I was in the lead and I saw Kathleen McCartney coming towards me. And she looked fantastic. She looked like what I imagined an Iron Man triathlete should look like who was going to win the race. And we we've talked about that together many times. I know you probably talked to her about that. But in that moment of seeing her, I knew what I was doing wasn't good enough. I had to find another gear to kind of keep maintaining what I was doing and even pushing forward. And the process of having to push now from mile 18 to let's say mile 22, my body was breaking down pretty fast. So now I'm not making it from aid station to aid station. I'm now having to stop and walk. And as my body was breaking down, feeling of the word of worthiness comes to mind. It was the feeling like I deserve to be in this position, even though it's no, it's foreign, I've never had it before, but I deserve it just as much as Kathleen McCartney back there, who's looking great and who's probably going to catch me, but I deserve it just as much. And I think to find that place of worthiness in you, it opens up a possibility that for me was translating to physically. I could physically keep overcoming the breakdown because my mind was telling me I deserve this. Does that click a little bit? It the mind was now driving my body. And that the emotion behind it wasn't just a thought. It was an emotion of I really could be good at something. I've never pushed myself to be good at something, but I actually could be if I just keep trying hard enough. So that was being honed in the really the difficult miles of the marathon by mile 25, where we all, you both know you're at the top of Polani and it's downhill and you think you've got this. That's where my body really didn't respond to that downhill running. But now I'm really feeling like a champion and I'm gonna win this thing. So I get down Polani Hill, I get almost to Elite E Drive, and that's when my legs just gave out. And that's where the scramble really started to happen of fighting this new desire, this new acceptance of myself as being someone who could win, to now having a body that isn't working. And so it was just, it brought out the best of me. My body breaking down to the point where I'm on the ground and can't figure out how to make my legs move is now bringing out the best of me emotionally and spiritually. That fight, that fight for what your worthiness, that you are worth fighting for, that was everything. That's what that initial Iron Man gave me. Did I go into it thinking that was what's happening? Absolutely not. But the crawling, the getting up, trying to get to the finish line was really about completing the journey that started deep into the marathon of my discovering who I was as a person. Yes, it was coming out as an athlete, but it's who am I as a person? And I'm somebody who is I. I just get really tired of saying I, I. But that moment gave me the opportunity to discover something about myself. I don't think I would have found it any other way.

Charlie Reading:

Amazing. And it is such incredible footage. I watched it back again yesterday. I mean, having seen it several times in in the past. And it it's just, it's just unbelievable footage. What what's it make you how does it make you feel to watch that footage back now?

Julie Moss:

I'm kind of amazed. I feel very vulnerable when I watched that because I was going through something that was incredibly personal. And in the later stages, it was it was humiliating, but in a way now that I can look back and say, well, that's just part of sport. When it was happening to me, it was like incredible humiliation, vulnerability, pride, courage. I I see the courage that I had. And so yeah, it ran the gambits. But I'd say if I had to pick one word to just one word to describe what I feel when I see that footage is just pride. I was the girl who put the sport on the map. I was the girl who went through all of that to give people an idea that they could find something within themselves in an endurance event like the Iron Man.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant. And reading The Crawl of Fame, which by the way, I love as we were talking before, we hit record, best cover of all time. Just I I love the feel of the cover of the of the number on your chest. But it's interesting because you talk about how the humiliation part of it, and actually the TV channel offered to sort of cover it up, didn't they? And sort of over it. And and you said, no, no, no, we need to keep this more real. What was it at the time that made you kind of want to almost accept the humiliation part of some of that footage?

Julie Moss:

Because the outcome of the race was, you know, it just it changed my life. I can't, I can't cover that up. I can't make it prettier than it was. It was gritty, it was messy, and it was transformative. So no, no, you can't can't rewrite history. That's how it happened. And I was really in this place of, I think because it had just happened. I remember when the the producers called me and they said, you know, this is what we think happened. And I could have said, oh yeah, that's what happened. But it's like, no, this is when something big happens, I think you have to own every aspect of it.

Charlie Reading:

Just a brilliant interview with Julie Moss that uh will still stay with me for a very long time. Uh and then we went on to a complete legend in your field in the world of nutrition, uh, Dr. Stacy Sims, which was just brilliant to get her on the podcast. So uh given it's your your area, Claire, what did you take from the interview with Stacy Sims?

Claire Fudge:

Well, she's an amazing, you know, physiologist. And I think her name now in terms of female training and female health, you know, is on everybody's lips. So it was really great to interview her and and and speak to her in in person. And I think, you know, one of the biggest things that really came across for me is that in the world of research, she's done huge amounts of research and is really trying to, as kind of research is moving now, really try and research more into females because most of the um you know research is in men when it comes to sport. So she's definitely kind of uh this you know spearheaded this um in terms of research across now, you know, uh the world in terms of people doing research. So to hear how she has also extrapolated data from, you know, because we don't have the data, she's saying, well, hey, you know, let's look at the data that we have got, like from gynecology, for example, and extrapolate that because that's our own female data into sport. Um, so I really love the way that she's uh using research that we do have to try and um shape uh future research and also help females today, like now, whilst we're still whilst we're still doing research. Um so and such practical tips, you know, from actually like guys, it's really important that you uh eat something, have something inside you before you train. And and whilst, you know, we stand there and talk about it the whole time, she was very practical in saying it doesn't need to be very much, like this is all it needs to be. Um your body just needs to know it's had something to eat. So I think there were great takeaway tips from that. So if you haven't listened to the episode, dive in to listen to it because there are some brilliant takeaway tips for for you. Um what did you take as a man, by the way, from the interview?

Charlie Reading:

Uh so I thought it was a brilliant interview. I thought she was um fantastic to listen to and chat to. Um, the things that stood out for me are that yes, we I we've talked about the inequality of research um it before uh in episodes quite a while ago. Um but uh what I what I loved of the way she just called it as it is, and that is women are not small men. And so, like, really shone a light on the differences and whether that was caffeine, whether that was heat acclimatization, whether that was the fueling strategies, all of that kind of stuff was really brilliant. And I think she was, you know, she was breaking down a whole lot of barriers that that have remained in sport for far too long. Um, the other thing that I really recall was having the conversation with her about the the important importance of lifting heavy weights. And I uh and obviously we we've talked about it in the podcast on the podcast historically around people you know getting towards the end of their sort of sporting journey, and you know, strength and conditioning is a great way to sort of retain longer-term health and and longevity. But we also talked about how for like my teenage daughter who's doing her track cycling, actually how the the heavy weights is still a great thing for her, which I thought which I thought was absolutely fascinating. Um so yeah, brilliant, brilliant interview. And let's dive into a snippet from the amazing Dr. Stacy Sims.

Stacy Sims:

As a young endurance athlete in training just as hard and not finding the kind of results that I wanted, specifically went from running into rowing, and we're all doing the same kind of training as the men, same kind of blocks, all gearing up for the same races, but there were a lot of times when the entire woman's boat was flat, and you know, we talk about, oh, it's that time of the month and all sorts of things, and it never really kind of came up for the men. So when I started looking at it from a perspective of being in class and learning exercise physiology and metabolism and seeing no representation of women in any of the textbooks, it was always he or they. There was never a confining aspect of talking about sex hormones or menstrual cycle. The images that we were shown were all those that really project aggression and power and strength, which are always associated with the male sex hormone. And then when I was doing a metabolism lab, I was the only woman that would participate and they threw my results out. And I was like, why are you throwing my results out? And it didn't line up with what they were expecting from a teaching lab. And I was like, wait, I am the daughter of a military officer. I know how to standardize and follow rules. I know that I did this right. And then that's where it started coming out. Well, we don't really study women, we don't know enough about men, it doesn't matter, you're just a smaller version. And when you sit back and think about it, you're like, wait a second, and that's not quite right because one, women are XX, men are XY when we're talking binary concepts, and women have a menstrual cycle. So we know inherently that people who identify as being female will have perturbations across their menstrual cycle, how that makes them feel, how it makes them react and train. And so it just did not make sense. And I came from a family who let us do things and always asking why and finding answers. And when I couldn't find them, that kind of was the trajectory to like, okay, now let's really figure this out and see if I can find some answers.

Charlie Reading:

What's the most significant lessons that you've learned through your own racing experience? And how did those moments shape the research that you've pursued in the lab?

Stacy Sims:

Questions from teammates about different supplements or products or racing strategies, things that would come up like, should I use compression during training to create a little bit of hypoxia? Or what's the best way to acclimatize the altitude? Or is this should I go with a 160 crank length or 170? Because I couldn't find the information. And myself being curious about that too, I'm like, okay, well, let's go figure this out. Let's go answer the question in the lab. And if I can't do it, then I'm going to find colleagues who can do that. So it really, my whole research line of trying to figure out all of this stuff for women has been based on real life lived experiences and trying to get the answers for people who are asking. And now it is my teammates are now coaches and they're trying to pass really good information on to the younger generation so they don't fall into low energy availability reds or a really awful team environment because we've all lived that. So now it's like, okay, what is the drive? What are the questions when we're looking for the younger generation now, too? So it's this continuous thread that just keeps coming through. I get questions from the field or I see something in research that doesn't quite make sense to apply to a woman. So let's go in and answer that. Let's go dig in and find out the answer based on the right population.

Charlie Reading:

So that was a brilliant snippet from Dr. Stacey Sims. Uh, and then we had the incredible Zhao Andrade. Um, so uh the creator of the Hundred Series uh ultra marathons. Um, but just so much wisdom in this episode, uh, particularly around work-life balance and and so much stuff. So Claire, where do you want to start with this one? What did you take from Ziao Andrade?

Claire Fudge:

I think he uh really showed his authenticity, didn't he? Um I don't know, we seem to have a habit of bringing out these vulnerabilities and people being very open and honest with us, which is absolutely amazing. And I think one of the things that that I guess really was a big part for me was when he was talking about actually from a work-life balance perspective, when he was running, and then um he had um some cardiac problems, and he was really lucky that you know the the medics were oh, there were some medics that happened to be ultra runners as well. And the fact that actually it took something that big to make him realize um that he did need to step back in life, that he did need to look at life differently. And it was just fascinating then to see what that brought and his journey after that and into you know forming things like the the 100 races. Um so it was great to see kind of where he's been and kind of what happened and where it's taken him. Um that for you, but apart from it being on your bucket list, of course.

Charlie Reading:

Oh obviously it's extending the bucket list very rapidly, uh as every episode does. Um, I think it was fascinating, yes, how when he first died his ultra running, which he uh which he you know came to as an act of I need to sort out my um my health stuff, and but he did he still did it on top of having the crazy work schedule. So, yes, it fixed some problems, but actually it ended up creating a whole load more stress on top. Um, so I think it was it it was fascinating around that. I mean, obviously he became a very good ultra runner very quickly, um, and you know, doing bad water one, three, five, and all those sorts of crazy things just just um incredible. But yes, the fact that it took that that heart attack on the on the on the course, and you know, let's be honest, he was incredibly lucky that the runners behind him happened to be doctors that could save his life because otherwise uh, you know, but the fact that it took that to be the real wake-up call for him to change his work-life balance in particular. And I think he was he was very uh open and honest in the the conversation, but he was also after we finished recording, I think that was um kind of it really it was at that point I realized how kind of maybe challenging, maybe how deep he had actually gone in this episode. So um yeah, absolutely brilliant. Um, and I also think it was fascinating hearing him talk about how he secured the funding from Stephen Butler on Dragon's Den. That then didn't materialize, but actually is now partnership with Maca has probably proved a better pairing than Stephen Butler ever would. So I think you know things uh um you know maybe that was meant to be. Um but yeah, so let's dive into a snippet from Zhao Andrei.

Joao Andrade:

So one of the things I've been doing with 100 is whenever there's a new race, I try and go and run the race myself. So I said just Costa Rica. So in three weeks we're uh doing the 100 mile in Ladakh because high altitude racing, always above 3,500 meters, up to 5,400. I'm going to run. So this race, CrowTrail, is the oldest three-digit showrunning race in Europe. It had started in the 2000s. Next year is the 20th edition. So I wanted to try out the race and see how we could revive it to make it to make it, you know, the big race that it was before when Marco Homo was winning the race and Michele Graagle went and win, and so on and so forth. And so I wanted to try the race, see the course, how it could be improved and potentially not only 100k, but do a hundred-mile race there. But that year there was a segment of the tunnel that collapsed, so the race had to be shortened to 40k. So this was last year. So but we've never announced the 100k. The tunnel was already shut, so we we launched the 40k. So I'm going to run the race to know a section of the course, just try it out. And I guess that is an accumulation of all the years, of all my life, of everything. All these stories that I'm telling push me towards the day where I'm organizing a race and at the same time I'm running it. I come from a lot of travels, a lot of things accumulated over time, not enough rest and recover. And also something I have not talked about because the truth is by 2022, I was in a major, major depression. And so I was taking specific medication for that as well. And I guess there's a potential interaction there with what happened that day. So here I am pushing myself on a stressful moment on the event day, running the race myself, which makes it a bit more stressful, and running the race that I am organizing. And it was just three kilometers in the race. I started feeling chest pain, my left arm going a bit numb. I was feeling my heart going all over the place. Of course, we know ourselves when things are not right, it wasn't feeling right. So I called my crew teammate and told him, I'm not feeling very well. Something is strange. I'm feeling my heartbeat very unusual. And told him just to pay attention to my GPS tracker in case something happened. Just overall pay attention. Um, he said, Maybe it's best that you stop there and just stop. Just send the race. And I said, Well, you know, these rates sometimes are like that. You're feeling a little bit strange, and then you continue. I'll go slowly and then you you know, just bounce back. But I found it strange because it was really at the beginning. Of course, it was a very steep ascent, maybe at three K with four hundred meters or something. But still, it was the beginning of the race. But then I only remember turning left. And I don't have any other memory. I know maybe some 700 meters after the point I have my last memory of turning left is where the two runners that were following me just behind me. They I was woken up by them. And they're, of course, I was seeing two people dressed as athletes with their backpacks and pole poles and so on. And they were speaking in Italian, which I understand. And they were saying, Don't worry, we are doctors. But I was seeing people in, you know, trowrunning gear. So I was a bit confused. But the truth is, I was helped in maybe under two minutes after I fettened by the two runners that were following me, which is perhaps the biggest divine intervention possible. They were both doctors, father and daughter. And they assisted me in under two minutes. And God knows if they weren't there, what would have happened? Maybe nothing, maybe something really bad. But they helped me. I was helixed out of the race. Safety and rescue was absolutely incredible. Also, an experience to have, which, you know, to be carried on the stretcher a mile going down was extremely hard to find an open area so that the helicopter could take me out. So the military team of the Cuneo area in the Italian Alps did an unbelievable job carrying me. They were very strong men for sure. And I was heliqued out, spent three days there, then hospitalized in Portugal, and took about I took all the tests possible for about three months. Um and uh yeah, what I had was an arrhythmia developed by stress, which led into tachycardia and eventually loss of consciousness at that day because of big stress. So that is the biggest, you know, uh we could call possible to see how we can stress our body so much into uh into non-existence if we push it beyond, I don't want to say beyond the limits, but beyond what we should do, perhaps. Yeah, that's when then I took three months off and and doctor recommendation and all of that, and did everything that they said and changed diet, changed my schedule, changed the team at 100, changed my the way I was, you know, my lifestyle, how I was organizing my time, a lot of things. I thought about everything in detail and how my life should be, and then started implementing in November, and I'm having the best results in all fronts in my life since then.

Charlie Reading:

So that was the brilliant Jao Andrede, and then we went on to Sean Conway, the the guy I mean the the first person to be featured twice on the business of endurance. Uh genuinely um a brilliant, brilliant guy. Uh but what did you take? I mean, obviously, I I knew Sean really well, having cycled from Land's End to Johnny Grotes with him and had him on the podcast, you know, early, early doors. But what did you take from that interview?

Claire Fudge:

I mean, it was amazing. I just don't think I've challenged myself enough with what I'm gonna say. Um, you know, for anyone who's looking for a for a challenge, certainly in the new year, then um I think they better start making their list because he's he's definitely ticked a lot of boxes. Um I I really I'm always fascinated how um athletes or uh people who are adventurers um almost get to where where they've gone with their adventures, how they've picked them. But when he started talking about kind of his early experiences and growing up in Africa and um his dad, I think you could see almost that maybe one of the reasons why he is adventurous and he just goes out there and does it and deals with the consequences and come up comes up with solutions. You know, he talked a lot, didn't he, about things happening and him just coming up with a solution to the problem. And I guess, you know, I guess you can bring that into business as well as into endurance sport, can't you? You know, in terms of having to make decisions. But I I just really liked how that probably shaped, well, definitely shaped the person that he is, but how that maybe has has come into um him as an endurance um adventurer, I guess I would call him. What about for you? Because you, you know, you you know him from cycling with him, and and you know, you've interviewed him before before as well. So I mean there were many stories from that, whether or not there were, I mean, there absolutely there was.

Charlie Reading:

He's utterly brilliant. And I think my biggest takeaway is that I think he is so underrated for given the his crazy, crazy achievements. I think so. When I was speaking to him uh last week, it it really dawned on me. He is the only person on the planet that has the endurance grand slam. So that is the person that has the first first to do something, which was his Land's End to John a Great Swim, the furthest, which was his longest ever triathlon, which is around uh Great Britain, his fastest, the fastest to cycle across Europe, and then his most of or foremost, as I because I like things that are then therefore all begin with the same letter. Um and that's his 105 Ironmans in 105 days. Now like let's be let's be absolutely clear, any one of those challenges would be unbelievable. To have done all four of those is utterly incredible. And I think when you know, we've talked so many times on the podcast about goals, and obviously in the trusted team, I talk a huge amount about goals and understanding you know how the you know you know the because ultimately success leaves clues. So how do the very you know the most successful people set their goals? And when you look at uh what he's done, yeah, I just don't think there's a bit probably a better example of just incredible determination and goal setting and planning and everything else. So so for me it's just it's just brilliant. I you know, I think it I think he's a fantastic guy, very funny, um, but uh what he's achieved is utterly phenomenal. So let's dive into a snippet from the legend that is Sean Conway.

Sean Conway:

When I go into it, I go in with this utter 100% self-belief that it's a dum deal. No plan B. I'm not very good with a plan B because I find for me, if you have a plan B, you might take it. Like, for example, I got off asked that, you know, by someone I'm very close to, really good friend of mine for many years. Uh uh, they said, Oh, Sean, you know, if the full Ironmans aren't going so well and you time out, will you maybe move to the half Iron Man record and just carry on doing the half? And I was like, no, absolutely not. Now, had I had that as an option in my head, I may have taken it on day two or three when I was broken and I was nearly timing out. So, yes, I'm a big fan of sort of no plan B for me. You have one, you can you can move plan A and you can change things so that, but you still have the end goal. I that's there's still one finish line, you're not moving your finish line. Part of that process is actually I printed numbers up to 123. I was like, right, I'll put this is such a done deal. I'm gonna smash a record, go up to one, two, three. Why one, two, three? Because it seemed like the next cool number. And it cost me a pattern, it was 10 quid a number to pay for. So I spent like 300 quid I didn't need to just to you know get all these caps and numbers right. So when I got to sort of day 95-ish, I remember thinking, oh, I just I reckon I could carry on. And I went to Caroline, my lovely wife, and I said, Look, I reckon, I reckon I can do some more. And the look on her face, she was very supportive though. She's like, she's just was like, Sean, like you're never doing this again. No regrets. Like, just do what you need to do. But also remember, you're a dad. I've got two young boys who weren't at school. Caroline is self-employed and was still working. So like she actually had the harder deal 100%. You know, hats off to single mums out there. It was hard for her, right? So there was sort of really no real other than ego going much further than that, other than me just going, I feel I got more in the tank. But I didn't want to give up because I knew I'd regret it. So I thought, right, well, I always I always knew I was gonna do day 103. So day 102, I brought the record. Day 103, I always was in in the books because I wanted to know what it felt like to do an Iron Man that I didn't have to do. Up to 102, I had to do it. If I didn't do it, record's off. Day 103 was like, whatever, you got the record, mate. And I wanted to know whether my body would totally crumble and just be like, oh, you're broken, like it's over. Or would I thrive because the pressure is off, which is a really interesting experiment for me. So I was super excited about day three, did day three, and I thrived. I loved it. It didn't matter if I crashed out on the bike, I could push it a little bit harder, didn't have to worry about injury, because I had the record, right? And then from then on, I made an agreement with Caroline that I'd flip a coin. I said, look, I'll flip a coin and I'll choose heads every time. I said, heads I carry on, tails I quit. The coin said do day 104, the coin said do day 105, and then when I flipped for day 106, the coins hit stopped. And that was it. And now for me, it mentally you can say, well, actually, I didn't quit the bloody coin. Tommy stops. It's it's been a good way for me to navigate the how far I could have gone, because actually that was it. That was the agreement I had with Caroline, and I need to be a husband and a dad again. And I'm proud of that now. I'm proud. I'm not sitting here going, yeah, I definitely could have gone to 150 or 200.

Charlie Reading:

So that was the legend. That is Sean Conway. Uh, and then next up it was Ruth Daniels, the CEO of British Trathlon. Uh so Claire, obviously, we met her at a dinner um uh down in London, and we obviously we got to know her fairly well over a couple of glasses of wine and some rather nice food at the RAC Club. Um but what did you take from the interview that we did with Ruth on the podcast?

Claire Fudge:

It was fascinating to hear her background and how she was kind of almost, I'm gonna say, like, thrown into the Olympics because she entered British triathlon, didn't she? And it was kind of like Olympic year and she was, you know, just going with it. She told with such emotion as well that you know the stories around the Olympics and how much actually she learned very quickly um in terms of not only more about the sport, but you know, that whole Olympic cycle and the fact it went, you know, went so well. Um and we we also talked about um the Burley triathlon as well, and that this kind of idea of the um a whole weekend, almost like a festival kind of um atmosphere. And I just think this is this is an amazing way to go with the sport and bringing, you know, young athletes into the sport and opening it up to um, you know, so many different people as well. So I really love how she's trying to look at, you know, how do you bring younger athletes in, athletes from um, you know, lots of different um lots of different places into triathlon. Um and it was just fascinating. And to hear about obviously them gearing up for LA and some of the different challenges that they're gonna have as well. Um, what about what about from you? Because obviously she talked about business and where she's come from in life and um well I mean I agree.

Charlie Reading:

Everything that you talked about there was absolutely brilliant and fascinating. Um, to focus on the business side of things, something uh that we kind of talk a lot about is the importance of understanding your culture and the values within your business. And and I I just love I love anyone that talks about that and understands how important that is and how much of a big difference that can make uh in a business when you really understand that and you really kind of get um that clear in your minds and you make decisions based on that culture and values. So for me that was that was um really brilliant. Um and then the other thing that stood out to me was the fact that she um and I've only just recalled this now, actually. I'd forgotten about this, but when we asked her about a book that she would she would recommend, it was the book that her, I think I'm right, saying her grandfather had written for her.

Joao Andrade:

Yes.

Charlie Reading:

Um which is ironic given that the previous guest, Sean Conway, had talked about he's writing a book for his um grandchildren. And I just thought that was a beautiful sort of exercise of going full circle. And and and writing books is brilliant from a business point of view because of the things like the culture and the values and all of that kind of stuff. It's a great opportunity to get that down, but also a book can be a beautiful thing just to pass down from generation to generation. So I thought that was a really lovely topic to finish off the interview. So let's dive into uh a snippet from the interview with Ruth Daniels.

Ruth Daniels:

There are a number of communities that we we work with. There's, you know, I think one very high profile one is Women in Try. Bianca is the chair of that and has done incredible work in terms of reaching out to different communities to bring women um from diverse backgrounds into the sport, and quite incredible what she's achieved. And then Nani from Badu, um, who's also done some incredible work as well. And there are some people out in the different communities who are really, really well placed to do that. So our role on that is to facilitate, also to look at how we can help with funding. So we funded some coaches, for example, to help women in try and Badu to have some women participating at London T100 actually this year. So we're kind of still very much figuring that out, but that's sport development. You know, that's that's how we try and get more people in. We've also got some really exciting work going on at the moment with David Ross Educational Trust. So David Ross, um, as you sure you know, an incredibly successful entrepreneur, but who pretty much loves triathlon, but also has built these incredible foundations. And what what he would like to see is that the that you don't have to come from private school to become an Olympian, that you know, those schools can create the right environments and for those. We've been doing some really exciting work with some of the academies to build sort of like triathlon academies in in those environments, still very much at the early stages, but I think we're really excited to see where where that might where that might go. And also, you know, in England, Scotland and Wales, you know, eat each of each of those sort of parts of British triathlon are all reaching out to local communities. And in in England, Sport England funds us for what they call priority places, which is working out, which is reaching out to different communities that ordinarily wouldn't be getting supported for participating in sport and everything. It's really important though that what we do actually ultimately leads to people who are able to participate in the in the sport as as well. And I think to your second question around what would my, you know, my ideal partner look like, I think it's an amazing opportunity for an organization to get involved on social impact work in terms of making the sport more accessible to younger people and to and to help reach out to communities that might not be able to do that. You know, the supermarkets, the the banks, everyone who's got those national footprints, for them to be able to reach out into their local communities and to help support around health and wellness, but also getting more kids active. You know, the we know the figures around kids acting inactivity are just appalling. And I think everybody has a role to play in how in how you get kids more active with their families as well. So yeah, any brands who want to get involved, give me a shout.

Charlie Reading:

So that was Ruth Daniels from British Triathlon. And then we went on to Ryan Sands, the incredible South African ultrarunner. Uh, what did you take from the conversation with Ryan?

Claire Fudge:

There's lots to take from the conversation with Ryan and some of the amazing, you know, achievements that he's had in terms of ultra running. Um, he he told like an amazing story um when he was running around Lesotho. And I can't remember actually, and you might be able to recall why he decided to do that. Um but the stories that he had to tell about actually um like knowing your environment, but also um getting to know like local cultures, like it really sounded like this wasn't just a run, it was actually there were so many things that he didn't think that he had to plan for in terms of you know the environment um and the people that were around him. And he recalled, didn't he, getting chased down by some tribes.

Charlie Reading:

Um they were throwing stones at him, weren't they? Yes, right on the f on like one of the first nights of when they were camping, um, because they thought they were gonna steal their uh their livestock.

Claire Fudge:

Their livestock, yeah. Um so I think you know uh it it really made me think actually about you know adventure and when you look at adventure, like this is true adventure, but also that you need to understand culture and actually how much how much it um teaches you. Not not just is it's almost like it wasn't about running, it was about it was about you know learning about culture, learning about you know whether he was going to be able to finish this event um or not. So to me, those stories, I mean, to be able to dive more deeply into some of those stories would be absolutely amazing. But we just kind of covered the surface, didn't we, of of some of his stories. Um I mean he took also talked about some of the other races he did and some of the ones that haven't gone so well for him as well. So, what did you think about some of the interview?

Charlie Reading:

Well, I think that it was, I mean, it was a brilliant interview, an amazing guy, and just like the most insane achievements in the world of ultra running, whether it's you know, winning Western States, whether it's winning all of the different desert um ultra marathons. And so we talked obviously a lot about that and and how brilliant that was. But then there was the UTMB, which and I think what we from from memory, uh we were talking about how the you know with Western States, there was one of his mentors or coaches had written something in a book that said you were gonna you're gonna win this, and that felt like his kind of almost his guide to winning it. And yet with UTMB, he never ever mastered it. And I think we, you know, we we obviously talked about the the the kind of love-hate relationship with with UTMB. But I just think I mean there's so many um brilliant stories within this. Lesotho stories are unbelievable, and particularly again, look, yes, the the start of it with the the the rock throwing, but also the floods that were coming at the end, and and also just kind of encapsulating what Lesotho was like geographically, which was not kind of as I was necessarily expecting. So um I think a really, really interesting conversation um with an amazing, amazing runner. So let's dive into a snippet from Ryan Sands.

Ryan Sandes:

I actually attempted another project the previous year with Red Bull, this idea of running the length of the skeleton coast in Namibia. And unfortunately, I ran into some seal clubbing happening halfway through the the project, and things escalated really quickly. Basically, I was in in the kind of wrong place at the wrong time to to summarize things, but really quickly found that I was kind of arrested or detained, and yeah, kind of that was the end of the project. But I mean it was quite a kind of scary situation, but nevertheless managed to get out of that. And then it was kind of a good friend of mine said, What about running around the Sutu? And I thought, how hard can it be? Like, look at it on a map, it looked like the small little country, it was only a thousand one hundred kilometers, and essentially would just be kind of hugging the border all the way around the sudo. And so that's how the idea started. Spoke terrain, he's he's kind of got a got a rubber arm and he was pretty quickly keen to join. And I mean that that was essentially how it started. We did a couple of reckies and then really quickly realized that the terrain up there was brutal. And also essentially, we weren't following hiking routes that would take like the route of least resistance. We were just following the circumference. So we were going against the valleys. So I mean, instead of often like a hiking route would take you down into the valley, and we were going against like the valleys and the peaks. So it was up, down, up, down. There were no no trails during some of the recis. We encountered, they've got the local herdsmen on top, um, but they also have these packs of dogs that were were quite hectic. Um early on, I have discovered that it was going to be a yeah, quite a quite a hectic project. Um it was actually through that that I spoke to Red Bull and I said, just I'm feeling really uncomfortable from a safety point of view, but like and a way to make it safer would be would be to have for like there were a few select sections that we could potentially have guys on on horseback join us just from a safety point of view, they could go ahead, could speak the the local language. So Red Bull agreed to that, and I felt a lot better about the project. So we started the the project, Reno and I, and it was the the second night that uh we'd actually just picked up the two guys on on horseback and we were going along. Raina and I could run through the night quite easy, but the the the horses couldn't couldn't go at night. So we we stopped and we we found like somewhere to to camp for the night, and it was next to like a crawl, which is basically where some of the herdsmen would would keep their sheep. And we started setting up, but we were looking around, we couldn't see, and we were waiting and waiting, but then it started to rain and it got really dark and and cold. So we just set up our tents. Anyways, we set up tents, got inside, and we were just like going off to sleep. And the next minute I just remember hearing this like screaming and shouting, rocks being thrown. Like I remember just like opening my eyes and seeing this like rock pierce my tent. I mean, or it didn't luckily it didn't pierce straight through the tent, but like the whole tent, like just indented. Rena was lying next to me, kind of screamed. We ran out the the tent, and the two guys on on horseback, their their tents were one up from us, and they had they'd got out and they were like basically just screaming and shouting, and rocks being being thrown, black sticks were and and yeah, it was just complete chaos. And yeah, the the two two guys on horseback were literally fighting for their lives. Luckily they could speak the local language, so eventually things calmed down. Um and it was the the two herdsmen in that area that had seen us coming and they had thought that we were coming to steal their sheep. So they had kind of called a whole lot of friends in in the nearby valley. So there were suddenly like nine, nine guys. So these sheep, and yeah, luckily with having guys that speak the local local language, things calmed down. The guys were really apologetic. Like two of the guys were were were crying, and yeah, I mean, kind of yeah, things things calm calm down. I can't say I slept much that that evening. And I mean, in in my head, I was just like, okay, like this is the end of the project. I've got a young son, Brandon I'd already run across the Himalayas, which was pretty sketchy, as I mentioned. I had this bad situation along the skeleton coast, and I thought, like, this was it. I promised my wife that if like anything sketchy happened, that was the end of the project. I mean, that that night talk kind of just lying there tossing and turning through the night. I was like, cool, this is the end of the project. And we woke up the next morning and we kind of took our tents down and we're heading out. There was one of the local herdsmen was like super apologetic um and offered to kind of navigate and to show us a way to to get out of there, and and they would like started chatting a bit a bit more. He explained it in terms of that basically the the chiefs that live at the bottom of the mountain, they pay the local herdsmen, they would give them one sheep a month if none of the sheep got stolen or injured over the space of a month. But basically, because it it's a high cattle theft area, it had been like nine or ten months since they'd actually been paid. So essentially they weren't being paid their salary, so they're all kind of yeah um being paid. So they were super on edge and obviously reacted in a in a very like harsh way. You could see they were they were really sorry. And for me, it was probably didn't think it as much at the time, but it was a real like eye-opening situation for me, just to like realize that I mean, especially in in South Africa, we we come from such diverse backgrounds and such different backgrounds that it's so important to just listen and understand like where the other person is coming from and just to have empathy. And for me, that was a real yeah, kind of eye-opening situation, just to have empathy and and realize for sure the situation wasn't ideal. The guys could have just come and spoken to us, but kind of they they come from such a different background where life can be so harsh. So, yeah, I mean that was a real eye opener for me. But anyway, going back to the project, literally, I'd I'd said that that morning. I said to Rainer, like, kind of done with this project. I just want to want to get out of there. And we were going and we had about 50 or 60 Ks to get to where we could resupply and where we would see crew because that had heavy rains. Um, when we got about 10 kilometers out, we got in in radio comms and our crew had told us that the rivers were all flooded, they couldn't get to. So then that meant that instead of seeing our crew in like in the 10 kilometers time, it was going to be like over 100 kilometers. Essentially, we I was out there for another kind of 36 hours or so. And it was in that that space that I realized like, geez, I'm so far in this this now. I had time to process the situation that I decided to to keep going on the project. But I mean, yeah, it was a it was a crazy way to to start the project. And I mean the rest of the project was was brutal just in terms of the the weather conditions, uh, the the the terrain. It was by far the hardest thing I'd done.

Charlie Reading:

So that was the awesome Ryan Sands, and then we finished off season 10 with probably the so when I started the podcast, I think she would have definitely been in the top three of people that I wanted to get on the podcast, and she politely declined because she was busy doing other things for quite a long time. And I think maybe she would have been in the top one if I'm honest, but don't tell the other guest. Um but it definitely did not disappoint. I loved our conversation with Chrissy Wellington. So, what did you take from the conversation with Chrissy?

Claire Fudge:

Well, she was probably the top person that I ever wanted to meet because at the height of her career is when I started Iron Man. So um it was absolutely amazing to be able to be able to chat to her. And um, you know, I've also held a trophy. She's held, by the way. I forgot to tell her that. Um in our triathlon club. I held the trophy one year that she also won. So I think I will take that as my um my uh my fame as well. So I think it was amazing. Again, another really authentic interview, like you know, the she talked so much about her career and about um the different coaches she's had and and what had worked for her. Um and also the you know, the the hardships of racing and actually what it really felt like. And I and I felt there was there was real emotion in there, wasn't there? You know, it wasn't maybe the interview she would have given, you know, years ago. Um not only there, I think one of the really interesting things for me um it was not only when she talked about her relationship with with food and and with racing, um, which is definitely worth a listen. Um but also um you know, definitely around um her yeah, her her different sort of um coaching techniques and actually her decisions to move and why she's decided to do that. Um so I just thought it was I mean, there were so many parts to this. We didn't really get to her writing books, did we, very much? But um, you know, also her book writing as well, you know, so many different skills there. Um so what about for you? I mean, we could have had her on for about three episodes, I think, but I think that's exactly right.

Charlie Reading:

We could have definitely had we we got through about half the questions we wanted to, and we could have definitely would have been amazing to do even more. Uh just a brilliant, brilliant conversation, and I think on so many levels. Firstly, as you say, her honesty, and like when I asked her about the eating order disorder, I asked her that based on having read it in in um her first book. But she then went into a whole lot of kind of more detail, as you say. And probably um, I think when we chatted to her afterwards, I don't know that she's ever talked um that openly about how she struggled with that even through her career. Um so I I think it was that was really brilliant that she was she felt that she was able to do that, and that'll help so many people understand that more, I'm sure. Um I loved talking to talking about how you know she was just pushing through the difficult times, whether that'll be in the lead up to Kona or you know, uh but also just pushing the edges of the box. I just think she was just an incredible athlete that so many people could learn from on you know so many different things. And then yes, the difference between Brett Sutton and Dave Scott's type of coaching and her admission that whilst Brett's coaching probably wasn't sustainable for the long term, it also got her to become world champion, and perhaps without that she might not have ever done it. Um so you know, there it's so much brilliant stuff there. Um yeah, I just think what a Fantastic interview to finish season um season 10 of the podcast. Uh so let's dive into a snippet from Chrissy.

Chrissie Wellington:

Training is as much about training the mind as it is training your your your physiology, your body. And so I think athletes of all calibers at all levels should be investing in developing that psychological strength. And that means learning to test your limits and step outside your comfort zone in a safe managed way in training, because it's only then that you have the confidence. Like I said, that confidence is built or not innately confident, but that confidence can grow when you've tested yourself in training, that you've shown you can do more than you ever think possible. And you put yourself in situations where the outcome is uncertain. That might mean you fail, but you grow through that. It might mean you succeed and you grow through that too. So I think growth is in that testing of one's limits. And that psychological strength, I think, is multifaceted. So we need adversity tolerance. So we need to know and be able to overcome adversity. So that means testing yourself physically, pushing your limits, you know, above what you think is possible. But then there's also, especially in Iron Man racing, there's solitude tolerance, which is really important. You have to be able to be in your own head for an extended period of time. And so all athletes, whilst there's definite value in training with others, there's also incredible value of training on by yourself because you learn the art of solitude tolerance. And I think often amateur athletes understandably spend a lot of time training with other people, which is beautiful. But in a race, you haven't got that camaraderie, you haven't got that shared motivation and support. So you've got to be able to be in your own head for extended periods of time, be without music, be without stimulation. So solitude tolerance, the training of to endure that boredom is really, really important. And so that that again is part of training. Motivation, incredibly important. You've got to know what your intrinsic and extrinsic motivators. There'll be those that are within those that are external and knowing what they are and holding those close are again really important. But all of that reflection, all of that processing has to be done as part of training. And that's that's so beautiful. That's what's amazing about our sport. It's as much psychological as it is physical. And that's why it amazes me that people place so much value on their training log, their swim bike run, maybe strength and conditioning. And that is it. But it all unravels if that doesn't encompass that that psychological strength, because that's such an important pillar.

Charlie Reading:

So that was the unbelievable interview with Chrissy Wellington, the legend, four-time world Iron Man champion. Any final thoughts on that interview with Chrissy Claire?

Claire Fudge:

Do you know, as an athlete who was kind of at that, you know, back in if we look at, you know, 2010, 2012, what she what she talked about, which I thought was really interesting, and actually some of our other guests, like Macker had talked about this as well, is that actually she didn't have, you know, social media wasn't something that these athletes had to be on. It wasn't really kind of a a a thing so much, you know, in 2010, 2012. And actually, she was saying that it's probably harder now for athletes racing because they're constantly in the limelight, aren't they? You know, and I think that really made me think that athletes now can never get away from being out there the whole time and the pressure that that puts on an athlete, as well as essentially an extra job, but the pressure that that puts on them. So I thought that was really interesting because that's something that we've heard a couple of times actually, in terms of it's only really the magazines, wasn't it, at the time, that made you have an opinion about somebody or the race roundup or whatever it might have been. So yeah, that was that was really interesting.

Charlie Reading:

I think, I think so, uh, for those listeners out there that aren't aware, I we I had a my latest book published only like two, three weeks ago. It's called The Business of Endurance. It's the stories from the episode, it's the common themes and learning lessons from 150 plus episodes. But I have to admit, now that we've interviewed Chrissy, I'm gonna have to go back and create a version two of well, if I I think everyone, I don't think anyone, I think I finished writing it before we started season 10. So I'm gonna have to go back and create a version two with an updated version with the the guests that we've had on season 10 because it has been so brilliant. But I but I agree, I think that that's a really interesting point and something that Chrissy sort of yeah very much touched on. And I think what a brilliant way to wrap up season 10. And for those devoted listeners, we are gonna have a bit of a pause between season 10 and season 11. But I'd really encourage you to go back and listen to the incredible episode. We've done over 150 interviews of the world's best endurance athletes, adventurers, coaches. So go back, check out the back catalogue. It there is so many brilliant interviews you can listen to. And also go to Amazon, buy the Business of Endurance book, check out the common themes and lessons from these amazing people. If you love the book, please leave a brilliant review on Amazon for me. If you don't like it, you can keep that to yourself. That's absolutely fine. But check it out. And if you want to find out more about how the trusted team will help you help business owners grow their business while working less and enduring more, go to the trusted.tebe and you'll be able to find out more. And Claire, where can people find out more about what you're doing?

Claire Fudge:

Yep. So they can find me on LinkedIn as by name, Claire Fudge, but also fourthdiscipline.com. Um they can find out more about performance nutrition. So if you're a business professional and you're wanting to optimize performance in business, in life, but also accelerate your performance and get yourself onto the podiums, then you can find a little bit more about us there.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant. So that's us. That's season 10. Uh that's a wrap while we pause and collect ourselves together to bring out spring season 11 to you at some point, not quite sure when. Keep checking out the the old episodes, read the books, listen to you know, kind of the other stuff that we've done. And between now and then, keep on training.