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Doubles Only Tennis Podcast
The only tennis podcast with a focus on doubles. We believe doubles should be more popular and get more coverage than it does, so we’re fixing that. Our goal is to help you become a better player with pro doubles tips and expert strategy. We interview ATP & WTA tour doubles players and top tennis coaches to help you improve your game.
Doubles Only Tennis Podcast
Calvin Betton Interview: Coaching a Wimbledon Title & What Professional Doubles Needs
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Calvin Betton is an ATP doubles coach. He works with Henry Patten & Harri Heliovaara who won Wimbledon in 2024, and Luke Johnson. I spoke with Calvin on the middle Sunday at the 2025 Australian Open.
Calvin shares his work over the past year with Harri and Henry, including their run at Wimbledon. He breaks down the matchups, draw, and how he scouted their round 1 opponents incognito.
After that, we dive into the growth of professional doubles. If you've listened to the podcast for a while, then you know I'm extremely passionate about this topic. We discussed:
- 2024 doubles experiments and changes
- Opinions on shot clocks and changing the product or rules
- What type of marketing and promotion is needed
- What the doubles players want and have tried doing on social media
- What's holding doubles back
- and more...
Calvin is active on Twitter and is also a host of the Tennis Unfiltered Podcast.
Listen to my interview with Harri Heliovaara about their 2024 Wimbledon Title.
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Insights Into ATP Doubles Coaching
Speaker 1You're about to hear my conversation with ATP doubles coach, calvin Betten. Calvin hosts the Tennis Unfiltered podcast. He's a great follow on tennis Twitter as well, and I caught up with Calvin on the middle Sunday of the 2025 Australian Open. Calvin had two teams in the draw Henry Patton and Harry Heliovara, who won Wimbledon last year, and then also Luke Johnson, who made the second round of this year's Australian Open. Currently, at the time of this recording, harry and Henry are still in the draw. They play their next match a little bit later today. So, like I said, I caught up with Calvin during the middle Sunday.
Speaker 1I wanted to talk with him about doubles. He is very active on Twitter and is a big promoter of doubles, a big fan of doubles, obviously being an ATP coach, and he has lots of opinions on what he thinks needs to be changed what needs to happen from the tours, what needs to happen from the players and so on. So we talk about that. We also talk about their Wimbledon run last year. What kind of led up to those successful two weeks. He breaks down their draw during the Wimbledon run as well, which was pretty interesting, and then we talk about specific doubles changes. So we talk about whether he thinks it's a good idea to change the net post or to stand behind the service line. On the ATP side, he talks about shot clock changes and a lot more. So not tons of strategy in this one, but you're going to get some insights into what it's like to be an ATP tour doubles coach, along with some insights into just the tour in general and how we can make doubles more popular.
Speaker 1So, without further delay, enjoy this 30-minute or so conversation with Coach Calvin Betten. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. I'm here in Melbourne, australia, with Coach Calvin Betten. Calvin, welcome, thanks for having me. So I was listening to your podcast the other day on Tennis Unfiltered and I didn't realize this was only your second time in Melbourne, or your second Australian yeah, yeah, I was here last year.
Speaker 2I first came to Australia in 98, 1998, and then I didn't come back until 2024.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2And then I've been again 12 months later.
Speaker 1Okay, so how has it been your second time around so far?
Speaker 2I mean it's a great tournament. It really is a great tournament, I think. You know I always think the best two slams are either this one or the US Open in terms of how they're organized, how they run spectators. Obviously, wimbledon has a special place because we won it and it's my home slam, but there's certain things that hold it back, like the spectator experience isn't great. You can't watch that much and especially for the doubles, on the outside court you don't have much space for fans and I know that all the matches I've watched here so far, my lads have had three matches so far and all of them have been no. We've had four matches sorry and all of them have been no. We've had four matches sorry and all of them.
Speaker 2The stands have been absolutely packed. There's a great atmosphere. Um, we've played two Aussies, we've played Americans, indians, french, and everybody's had support there. Yeah, and I think for that alone, the US and the Aussie Open are the best. It's also a bigger site and that kind of thing. Um, so, yeah, I love the tournament. It's a great tournament, sure.
Speaker 1One of the other things you mentioned on that podcast was how maybe players don't really understand everything that goes on behind the scenes from a coaching perspective. Yeah, and I talked with Harry a few months ago about the Wimbledon run, so maybe talk about some of that stuff that goes on behind the scenes and then if you can relate it to the Wimbledon run as well and what those two weeks were like for you.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean it was a special two weeks it was. I mean everybody says it was everybody. When they speak to me they think it was out of the blue. But I never really saw it that way because I remember it was only a few weeks before that, when Henry and Harry they'd only got together in April and they went on a run where pretty much they won almost every match they played. And then they won the week before the French. And I remember after the second round of the French where they actually beat Luke Johnson, who I also coach, and Skander Mansouri, who were also in great form at that stage. They beat them and I thought like that was the best match they've played. And I thought after that match, they, they might win this tournament, we might win the french open. Um, because I looked at who the other pairs were and I fancied them against everybody.
Speaker 2And then brutally in the next day in the pre-match warm-up, harry's shoulder popped um, so we couldn't play the third round, we had to pull out of that, which was devastating for harry more than anybody, but then also for henry as well, and and then so we were kind of in a strange position where we didn't know in the lead-up to it we didn't really know where we were because that injury that Harry had, the physios told him it could be anywhere between three weeks and three months. It's a wide range, yeah, and we just didn't know. So then we made an agreement, henry and Harry. We all sat down and said we wanted to give Harry the best opportunity and Harry. We all sat down and said we wanted to give Harry the best opportunity. So Henry got a couple of other partners, short-term partners at the start of the grass, and then we got a call from Harry, I think the week before Queen saying I think I'm going to be okay for Eastbourne. So he came over halfway through Queen's, we practiced and then we all headed down to Eastbourne.
Speaker 2We got a brutal result in Eastbourne. At time we thought were brutal in that I guess, because it's 250 most people can't watch it. But we were playing ebden and piers and we were a break, a setup and a breakup on grass, both of them serving great, and harry had a sudden death point on his um. Harry had a sudden death point on his own serve, a juice point to go, I think, 4-1 up, and he served a great serve. John Pears returning, henry smashed the ball away. The line judge called it in and the umpire overruled it and there was no, because it was an outside court, there was no Hawkeye. But then when we looked at the replay, the Hawkeye replay showed the ball was in, so it would have been 4-1 up. In the end we went 3-2 back on serve and then we lost the match from there. Now, as it happens, we always say that we always laugh about it. Harry says he's still livid about it, but it actually gave us an extra two days to get to Wimbledon and practice and that kind of thing. So yeah, and then we, so, so yeah, and then we.
Speaker 2So the Wimbledon draw came out and it was a pretty brutal draw. It was a brutal draw for for my camp all round, because Luke and Luke and um Sir and Balaji we played with, they got Aravello Pavic first round and Henry and Harry got um Bilelli Vavasori, um first round, who at the time were number one in the race. They They'd had the best year of anybody. Now I'd say that match the match Bileli-Vavasori, I think that match and Luke's match Aravalo-Pavic I think I probably did more research on those two matches than I've ever done on anything up to that point. I remember I couldn't watch Aravalo-Pavic practice, but I know Bileli-Vavasori were practicing after us one of the days, so I stayed to watch them and they practiced against Joe and Rajiv and I stayed to watch them practice and I made a load of voice notes. I remember I stood at the side of the practice court just with my phone, just recording a load of voice notes and I sent them to the lads and then we have a load of data as well.
Speaker 2So we have a database of data of all the doubles guys and like matches that, yeah, through the lta. So I tend to do that, I do a lot of my scouting on that, um, it shows things like where they serve, where they serve in big moments, what, what their, what their best returns are in key moments, that kind of thing. So I will always send a report. I'll do a report, always do it the night before the match and send it to the lads the night before. That's how they kind of like it, um. And then we also, all three of us, will watch matches of the opponents and then have any sort of notes that we feel that aren't covered in the data, um, that we feel things that we may have noticed. So we kind of do all that um, behind the scenes stuff, yeah and yeah. And then it was that was the case throughout the whole weeks.
Speaker 2Um, we were I was saying to somebody the other day we had terrible luck with the drugs. It was a really tough draw, um that we got. So we got belay of avasori, first round. Then we had a couple that you know the second round you could say you know it was decent. We got martinez muna although they're still in this tournament while we're recording this, they're both very good singles players.
Speaker 2And then after that we got Matos Melo, third round, who were a decent pair. Then we got Aravalo Pavic, who are now world number one. Then we got Neil Skupski, mike Venus, who were unbeaten on grass at that point They'd won every match on grass and the former year's winner. And then we got Purcell Thompson, who obviously went on to win the US Open. So it was the toughest draw we could have had. The one bit of luck we did have throughout it was we got all our matches done before the rain came. So the first sort of the first 10 days of Wimbledon, the weather was pretty bad in the afternoons and what we were lucky with. We kind of went first on and we kept getting the matches done just before the rain came. So we played our matches, no stress, have lunch get out of there and whereas everyone else was having to wait around and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1So you played an opponent who had maybe had a.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, that kind of thing, yeah. So yeah, I think for our, I think less for the opponents, I think more for our own like mindset. We just weren't stressing and waiting around there and that kind of thing, so that was good. I remember the third round against Matos Melo. We had, I think Matos or Melo served to stay in the match, I think we were 5-3 up maybe or 5-2 up, and we had a couple of match points and I we were five, three up maybe, or five, two up, and we had a couple of match points and I could see that the, the gray clouds coming over, and then we didn't take them and then harry was going to surf for it and then I think the little bits of spitting came down and I was like, come on, get, let's get it, get it over with.
Elevating Doubles Tennis Through Marketing
Speaker 2I was in no doubt he'd serve it out, but I I could see the rain coming. It's like you can see, like over wimbley, you can see the gray clouds coming. Then there's a little spit, little spits, and then a little bit more drizzle and I'm like, come on, let's move it on, let's move it online. You know, I was even like thinking, don't even bother, going to the back to discuss tactics. Let's just hand signals from the net. We'll do it, um. And then he served it out in about three minutes after that absolutely tipped it down, um.
Speaker 1So yeah, how common. You said you went to practice or to Bolle and Vavasori's practice. How common is that on the doubles tour and do they see you there, knowing they're going to play you guys?
Speaker 2next round. I think this is kind of where we were looking, because at the time I'm not sure anybody knew who we were or knew who I was, because I'd not played a lot of these guys.
Speaker 1Because they thought you were just talking to your phone.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think the guys lower down the rankings because I know most of the guys from 20 to 120, because I've been around Challengers and those tournaments, they all know me. So I think if they saw me at practice then they'd think what's going on here? Get rid of him. But I think those guys and to be honest, they're both great lads Balillian Vavasori and their coach is a really nice guy, but I don't think at the time they knew who I was, so I was just sort of watching in the shadows. I'm not sure I can get away with that now, to be honest, but it's not something I normally do. To be honest, I like it. It's probably the only time I've ever done it. I think it was particularly relevant because I didn't know what they were like on grass. I knew Bileli Vavasori pretty well. I didn't know how good they were on grass, although they had won Haller a couple of weeks before that, but I wanted to have a look at how their shots responded to the grass really.
Speaker 1Interesting, so let's move on to just doubles in general. You talked about how some people thought it was maybe a fluke that Harry andry had won wimbledon. I feel like people who know doubles knew that that was not the case yeah, yeah, I think yeah there. I remember tweeting about it at the time and their record the previous like three months was like 24 and six or yeah, it was ridiculous, I think, yeah, they'd strong.
Speaker 2I think the matches that they'd lost they were like they lost. They lost one their first. They lost one to Dumbia Rabool in Bucharest. So they won their first tournament in Marrakesh. They then went and won a challenger straight after that because we didn't know what they were going to get in at this time the Masters were coming in. Harry made a huge leap of faith for us. He said he was willing to bypass the Masters if they didn't get in and play challengers, which his ranking at the time he could have got in that, which that was massive for the partnership. So they won in Marrakesh first tournament. And then they won in Madrid Challenger next tournament. Then they went to Bucharest.
Speaker 2I was in Marrakesh with them, they went to Madrid by themselves. Then I went to Bucharest with them and they lost in the final of Bucharest to Dumbia and Reboul in a pretty good match. But Dumbia and Reboul were in really good form at the time. But you know, that would have been what four, eight, that would have been 13 matches, sorry, 11 matches in a row that we'd won. I think they then went and won no, sorry. Then they went, the only in a row that we'd won. I think they then went and won. No, sorry. Then they went the only second match they'd lost. They lost to Luke and Skanda, who I also coach, and that was a close match. That was an awkward one for me.
Speaker 1What do you do in that situation?
Speaker 2You just tell both teams like I'm not giving you anything. I mean it doesn't like, luckily, touch wood. It's stopped happening now. But Luke, I've been coaching both. I've coached Luke since he was about 17 on and off, and I've coached Henry for the last two and a half years. But it was ridiculous how many times when they played the same tournament that they'd play each other in the second round. It happened in Challengers alone, and then it happened at French Open.
Speaker 1Is it creating less work for you, since you don't have to do the scouting.
Speaker 2No, it's more of a stress and, to be honest, like, so what I do is I basically and we've got an agreement with the lads I say, look, I'll help them out both with their own games, but I won't talk tactics with them for either. I don't do the scouting reports for them, and when they play each other, they're playing the same tournament because we're all here and we can practice together. It's a great atmosphere. I hate the draw day and even here, when the draw came out here, it took ages to come out after they'd done it and I was just like all I wanted was I'd have taken any pair. I just didn't want to play each other. Like it's just, it's just a nightmare for me that um but um especially second round.
Speaker 2Yeah, finals might be yeah, well, yeah, the place of the final over the moon, like but um, but no, so, um, um. So then, yeah, going back to it. So then they'd only lost too much at that stage. Then they lost. They lost to granola zebios in in rome masters, but I don't really count that because they didn't know they were getting in. So henry was still in the uk at six o'clock in the morning that they played and they played at I think they were first on at 11. So he basically found out they got in. They both agreed they. Six o'clock in the morning they got a call that somebody's pulling out. Um, are they going to go and sign his alternate? They agree they would. So they both basically went straight to the airport, got flights, um, and I remember thinking at the time that Zebios had pulled his hamstring the week before in Madrid and thinking like if it wasn't for that, I think we might have gone. Like this is all a bit crazy, like saying you know we're gonna, we're gonna be getting there and going straight onto the court. But Zebios showed no signs of pulling his hamstring and they played unbelievable that match and then they won the tournament. Yeah, yeah, they did, yeah, and then. So that was basically that.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, they did, yeah, um, and then so that was basically that there was three matches they'd lost from there, but then they barely lost anything else, because then I think they went and won Turin. They went and won Turin challenger, and then I'm trying to get my bearings on the tournaments, and then I think it was Leon. We won Leon the week before the French and then into the French, and you and you know it was, it was crazy that the run that they'd had, um. So you know, I think, and having watched enough doubles, I could tell you know that within after Marrakesh, and then I think, once they started getting on a run, then I think I started thinking you know, we're going for the big pots here, we're not like the 250s are not the limit here that's awesome.
Speaker 1Um, so I want to transition to just, uh, doubles in general, the tours, the marketing, all this stuff. Um, we'll start simple and then we'll go into, like, some of the details yeah, cool yeah so generally, how do you feel like we can make doubles more popular? What needs to happen?
Speaker 2I think I I honestly think, like I keep hearing this stuff about. You know, I know this is a line that the atp or certain people within the atp run that the product is not good enough. I totally disagree with that. I think the product is great. I think you only have to go around the go around the courts here at this tournament to see what people think of the product and it's all right. A few suits sitting inside going the product's's not good enough, or a few singles guys who want a little bit of extra money because they want the double share of the money as well them going the product's crap. But you only have to look here Every single match, like I watched literally. I'm not just saying this, but yesterday when they came out Luke and Sander Arenza, who we played with this week well, he plays with them every week they lost to doombie or a bull yesterday and the atmosphere was phenomenal. There was some dutch guys there, there was some french there, like there's some brits there, some aussies who were loving it. And I said to the lads when they came off, we had a pre-match chat and I said look at the end of the day it's not the result you wanted. But this is why you play the game, like those kind of experiences there where you've got I don't know how many people were there, but the stands were packed. It was a great match like the standard was unbelievable, standard was great. Everybody was loving it. That's why we, that's why you're in the game and and I think that that's the case, that you know that the product, I think, is excellent.
Speaker 2I think what hasn't happened is it just has literally no marketing at all, and you know it's. I think that is the problem. There's certain ways that they could it better. There's certain things the players could do a little bit better, or some of the players could do a little bit better. I think some players are definitely very keen to push it. I think some of the older guys aren't that bothered about doing that. I think they know they've maybe got another year or 18 months in this and then that's the end. So I don't think they're that keen to push it and I think that doesn't necessarily help, but I don't think necessarily it hinders either. But I think it all comes down to marketing. I think I think the product is excellent and I think you've got really good players now. And I think when you look at it and how many people seem to enjoy it, I don't think you can say the product isn't good enough. And I know because I go around to enough tournaments and I see that you know we'll have people some of the powers that be will say yeah, but no one watches, no one wants to watch doubles.
Speaker 2There's places where no one watches doubles, where no one watches singles either. Like you know, you go. I went to like we won in Marrakesh. No one was there for the doubles final. Happy to say, no one was there for the doubles final. You know what Will? No one was there for the singles either.
Speaker 2It was the middle of Ramadan. No one was watching tennis that week. It was like a futures tournament. You go to Miami. No one watches doubles in Miami. No one watches singles either other than on the main court. They go into the main show court or you don't get anyone walking around the outside courts, but you go to here in Australia, everyone's watching it. You go to any of the slams. People watch it. You go to.
Speaker 2We played the final in Lyon.
Speaker 2The stand was packed. There was yeah, there was one French guy in there. We played Olivetti and Bambri. The stand was packed. We went in Bucharest final Stand was packed. That was in Romania, with two French, two French lads playing an Englishman and a Finn, so there's no allegiance there. But they still pack the stand out. But they did it smart in in those places they put the doubles final on a decent time before the singles final. What you can't be doing is putting the doubles final on six hours before the singles Cause, not because people don't want to watch it, but people don't want to come watch doubles and then hang around for four hours doing nothing before the singles starts. So I think it's just how they market it. Also, I know the players have asked to run their own Instagram account, a doubles-only Instagram account, whether it be from ATP Tennis TV or whatever. They won't let them do it. They just said that they can't do it and and for me that that's where you run into to problems yeah, so there's a lot there.
Speaker 1Um, one thing I will say for sure in australia the crowds have been amazing. Yeah, the first day of doubles. Uh, I think there was only five doubles matches. I tried to get into all five of them, three of them there was no way to get in.
Speaker 2Yeah yeah, courts weren't big enough. Yeah, yeah um the well, I know that.
Unveiling the World of Doubles Tennis
Speaker 2I'll just just tell you something on that, because I know, yesterday when luke was playing because obviously henry and luke are good friends and I didn't realize that the stand was full, but when there was a queue to get in it and I turned around and henry was stood in the queue. That's a grand slam champion who couldn't get in. It was only when I said just come and sit in the coaching seats with me, but he managed to get in. But there's like, there's like and he's six foot six, so he stands out. But there's a actual grand slam champion who's there. He's trying to get into a, trying to get in to watch a match, and he couldn't. He couldn't get in the stands the other thing is.
Speaker 1So, when I sit in the stands and I'm not in the coaching box or anything like that, I'm just among all the people who have grounds, passes, and, um, the other day I was watching a match. It was a team, I think it's 15 or 13, I don't remember who it was but, um, the people behind me were talking about the seed and they were like, oh, what's the number next to the name is that the individuals played? Uh, seated 16 or the team, like you could tell they didn't know anything about yeah, yeah so they were new to this.
Speaker 1The whole match they're like oh like yeah they're loving it, yeah. And then, towards the end of the second set, they're like okay, alcarez is about to start, let's go yeah, yeah go watch that which is understandable yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and whatever, um. So I feel like a lot of it is you know. They're sitting there loving literally the product.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1No clue who these players are.
Speaker 2Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Imagine if they did know who the players were.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1They're basically rooting for the product, and what I never hear is and I'm in the stands all the time I've probably watched more doubles than most of the coaches this week honestly yeah, yeah, yeah so. I'm out there all day and I never hear. Oh, this is kind of boring, let's go yeah, 100.
Speaker 2Yeah, this doesn't happen, yeah, yeah absolutely over and over.
Speaker 1You hear these conversations like oh, this is fun, like we should watch this more, like over and over. It's crazy, I get like you know.
Speaker 2I mean, there was something a few weeks ago and about something about how the rallies are too short because it's just serve return. Ball three gets put away away. But that happens a hell of a lot in singles as well. The average rally-length in singles, I think, is something like 3.8.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, and doubles is like 3.2 or 3.
Speaker 2But that only happens as well when you get huge servers going. I was talking to I think it was Henry who was asking me yesterday how's the match been. I said it's been great. Actually, what we don't have here is all those guys have decent serves. We don't have a huge server. So we had four players who all could return, all had decent serves, but not great.
Speaker 2So it felt like every point was was. It was an interesting point, you know, and and I think, but yeah, but you need the difference as well. You need the big servers in the game. They add character, but I think the one thing and again because I've come to know most of the doubles guys as well is that there's characters there as well. You know, there's different types of personalities, huge personalities, great characters, and I mean, I think, to be honest I've said this even going back two years I think Netflix and the ATP made a huge mistake by not doing the doubles when they did their behind-the-scenes thing. I think the singles thing was never going to work. Yeah, every everybody on that was too self-aware and I think that that it just made for a fake documentary yeah if they'd have put a behind the scenes doubles documentary.
Speaker 2You have a natural drama anyway because it's you're dealing with pairs of people, yeah, and that kind of thing. And especially, imagine, like, look at I'm sure your listeners know because they're well educated on doubles people, yeah, and that kind of thing. And especially imagine, like, look at I'm sure your listeners know because they're well-educated on doubles and we know, imagine at the end of last year, looking at how many partnerships split and how many new partnerships formed. Imagine if you had cameras.
Speaker 2And I remember, like and I'm not going to say who it is, but the first day we got here and I know there's a couple of pairs already who are wobbling on whether they're going to continue for the rest of this year, first day we got here, I know me and Henry walked in and we walked in that room over there. You got the listeners can't see it, but we watched that room over there and there was one player chatting to another player very covertly, like me and Henry like look to each other, ok, fair enough. And then we went up to the other end of the. We went up to the other end and one of the players' partners was chatting to another player very covertly and we were like all right, okay, and I think that was you know.
Speaker 1So when we're talking about the and I think that's a great idea actually, because the issue with the singles players is that they've had such good like PR training- yeah, 100%. The issue with the singles players is that they've had such good like pr training yeah, 100. So like when I like here I'm on a player credential but when I get a media, accreditation yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1I don't even go to a lot of the press conferences because I don't get anything yeah, yeah, yeah whereas, like when I, you know, requested doubles play or something, actually tell me what's going on, because they haven't done all this pr training and they're just real yeah, I mean I spoke with.
Speaker 2I spoke with, I know, mark Petchy, who's a friend of mine.
Speaker 2He made a quote, a tweet, the other day, which I think he was trying to poke a few bears with it when he said it, that the least you know, he listed how, in entertainment facts, what he was moment to the same with the doubles and he had men's at the bottom and I ended up trying to pitch about it and reached a an interesting point at the end, because he was like and he works in the media now, he works for tennis channel and he was saying, look, if you could get like the coaches to give into coaches to give interviews during the matches, if we could interview the players after practice, that kind of thing, that's your route in.
Time Management and Fan Experience
Speaker 2And I said, look, do it. I was like I'll do it, I have no problem doing it, I'll, I'll talk. And you know I don't want to be chatting all the way in a match, but end of a set, that kind of thing, before the match says I'll do it. And I was like look, bring your camera crew out to practice, all the players will interview, all the players will chat afterwards yeah, just do it um.
Speaker 1So I know you got a run here. I'm in no rush, you're all right so so we're talking about like product versus marketing. What are your thoughts on some of the ideas? A, the stuff they've already tested, like the shot clock and that sort of thing, and then also things they haven't tested, like I know a lot of people say stand behind the service line for the server's partner, move the netpost. I think Mark was saying.
Speaker 2I'm opposed to changing the rules in terms of I don't like changing the rules because I think the product is good. I don't want to be saying stand behind the service line. I'm opposed to that. The net post thing I'm fine with. I question how much difference it would actually make. I think you still get shots around the net post anyway. I know Harry played one in Montreal, a great shot around the net post, but I still think you're looking at maybe one of those every 30 matches. I don't think that may, but I'm open to that. Um, the shot clock thing I don't think has made any difference. Um, and I'll tell you this no, it's not just my opinion.
Speaker 2And when we talk about product and crowd, what annoys me about that is they're doing those things, but I don't know where they're testing that like, where they think that that helps, because that's not come the audience, that's just people sat in a room downstairs making decisions, because I remember the worst it got was at the Queens this year, where they think they took it down to maybe 15 seconds, and I know Henry played and that was only. They tried it for the first round of qualies and I know Henry played with Rinky because Harry was injured, henry played with Rinky Hitchcarter, they played earlier medler and within the first four games all four players had had a time violation and the first serve percentage of all four players was below 45. Just because all they were doing was they were rushing, rushing the service action, that kind of thing. And I was at queens. If you're on that court you have to sit in the crowd and remember there were people behind us in the crowd. In the crowd again, the stand was full. There were people in the crowd saying what is going on, this is just too fast, like we can't keep track of what's happening now. That's where they they fail to understand, I think, in sport is that in good sport, you need time for it to breathe as well.
Speaker 2You don't have anything, anything. The most popular sport in the world is football, or soccer as you guys in the States call it. There's nothing happens for a large majority of it. The second most played sport in the world is cricket, mainly because of India. Nothing happens for literally 95% of it. Great sport is created with drama. It's not created with things going on all the time you need and look, I think the players can I things going on all the time you need and look, I think the players can.
Speaker 2I do think that part of this is on the players with with doubles, that they can speed things up themselves a bit. I don't think you need to be taking the full 25 seconds all the time. And I've said to a couple of the lads, like when you get a, let's serve, I don't think you need to go back to discuss tactics again. Just do the hand signals like you do for a second serve. But I think most of the time I remember even the wimbledon final I was keeping an eye on the shot clock. Most of the time we ended up serving with six, seven seconds to go. Anyway, all four players did so you're not actually using it. But the moments when you do use it, there's reason for that. You know that, the reason being that you've got a, you've had a big point, or. But when it's a big point, you need that for the, for the fan experience. You need time for it to breathe. You need fans to experience what's going to happen Now. Imagine the Wimbledon final. I'm sure you watched it. When it got to that tiebreak, the crowd were going absolutely nuts in there. The players, the pressure. Imagine if, at that stage every player just said you've only got 15 seconds, like you've got to run around and rushing to make first serves and that kind of thing. And there's also a player safety element of that as well.
Speaker 2I know I didn't go to Washington with the lads but they said that was the worst of the lot because they were doing limits on the. I think it was something like 40 degrees. They were getting the fan. They had to get the electric fans in at the change of ends because it was so warm and Henry was saying by the time they got the fan on they'd sat down. By the time they got the fan there, turned it on and it'd start going fast enough to get some cold air onto them. The ref was calling, the umpire was calling time because it was 30 second change of ends and, like you know, that was just chaos.
Speaker 2That was. That match was probably the worst standard match I've watched in about five years. That match in. They lost to, I think, doombie and Nice and that's no disrespect to Doombie and Nice, who are both excellent players and they won the match. But the whole match was just chaos because all four players were knackered. It was all a rush and you know, I think they've just got things wrong on that, but I think it's things I liked micing him up though.
Speaker 2Yeah, micing up was a good thing Although, again, they did that, but then they said that the players didn't have to do it, so it ended up just being they didn't have a mic that fit Henry, or Henry was uncomfortable because he was bouncing up and down, and I think the other players just said they didn't want to do it. But I also think what I'd do with the micing up, though, is I'd do it on the bench. What I do with the micing up, though, is I do it on the bench. You know, I don't think I'm not sure how much you get from, like you know, in the play. I think you just you're basically 99% getting two guys going IT left.
Speaker 2I like that, you know. But I think on the bench is where you get the good stuff, where you know they're actually discussing, although there was some interesting stuff. I know in one of the matches I forget who it was against, but I think Harry, one of the guys that hit a good shot, and I think Harry said like yeah, that's a bluff, he's not going to do that again, and I thought that was interesting. But yeah, it was good. But again, I think, credit to all the doubles guys. They're always open to everything. But I think there's certain people who are kind of. It did get to the stage with the shot clock where I wondered where. I wondered, are they actually trying to make the product worse here?
Speaker 1Because that's what that was doing, I assumed when they announced that in Madrid or before Madrid for the tournament, I figured this is not going to make any difference at all. I didn't even consider that it might actually make it worse.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1I'm just talking with you about it now. But you're right, not only for the players, but also the fans that time between points builds, tension, builds.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, 100, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and that's yeah, that's really important I think you know, I think I think you can solve the dead time, uh, when you don't need it, by just getting all the guys in a room and going look, we need to try and like make the product better, let's not be taking 25 seconds when it's one, all 15, all that kind of thing, and if we do that then we don't need to change the shot clock. I think that would be the way to do it.
Speaker 1So last topic here. So I chatted with Matt Ebden at Indian Wells last year. He was on the Players' Council and they experimented with the mixed tournament there, if you remember, a small invitational mix. But he mentioned that they kind of wanted doubles to be a little bit of more of a party atmosphere. They've tried the free fan movement as well. What's your opinion on all that sort of thing?
Managing Rowdy Spectators in Tennis
Speaker 2Free fan movement. I'm all behind, but I'm all behind that sort of thing. Free fan movement, I'm all behind. But I'm all behind for tennis, to be honest. I'm all behind that for anything, to be honest. But but I think doubles, again, the guys are very much open to it, they have no problem with doing it. I think the only problem is and you you'll have heard people say this before and it's happened a couple of times here the guys. They don't mind if everything's moving, what. What's a problem for the guys is if nothing's moving, then suddenly something does and it seems here, like you know, there's a lot of alcohol being taken here at this tournament. Like I'm a mate. What amazes me?
Speaker 2I was watching henry and harry the other day and it's the middle of the day and people kept streaming in and I remember thinking like everyone is drinking. There's no one here just carrying like a pepsi or or a water. You know everyone has got, like they do, the cans of beer, they've got the cans of some sort of tequila thing going and I'm like a hundred percent of people are boozing here and I think like that that's when it becomes kind of a bit of a problem, where you know somebody just gets up and walks out. But I think if it's like, if it's just free fan movement, I think that that is again great idea. You know, and I think that I think you know, here they've got I think that's what you've got here. Though, because of that, you know, and especially like they've got two barcodes here, I know a few guys, yeah, yeah, I think a few guys don't like playing on it, but yeah, again, they might depend, their careers might depend on it.
Speaker 1So they're gonna have to get used to it. I kind of think you get over that. Yeah, I think so, yeah.
Speaker 2And look, it's no different from playing football, or I think if the people have, you know, you've got to retain some sort of decorum. I think, like I know, that in Luke and Sander's first match they played Matus, gornas and Correno Buster there were four guys who were watching who they'd had a bit too much, and when smashers were going up they were shouting, trying to put the players off, like during smash. And I think then, but again, look in fairness to them, like I think sander went to spokes because look guys, you know you can't be doing, you can't be doing that, and they they quieted down after that. They were getting rowdy up until that point, but then after that they were like, yeah, sound, and I think like they called the um, said he called security, but I think sander and luke and the other two guys who went, no, no, they don't call, they don't kick them out, just you know, and they can cheer, but just let's not be shouting in the middle of points yeah, no, I hear you um awesome calvin.
Speaker 1This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2I'm sure we'll do it again at some yeah, no result any uh any final request or comments before we hop off here no, I'm just just looking forward to the rest of the week here and rest of the year going forward. I think you know it's um, I've got a pretty busy year ahead. Like I've got two pairs in pretty soon, I have two pairs in the top 50, so um, or two players in top 50 and two pairs in the top 40. So you know I'll be around at most of the tournaments, I think, and looking forward to another strong year awesome.
Speaker 1Well, I will see you soon and hopefully we can do it again later this year yeah, cool.