D - DISCUSSION: DR. LEXX; HOW TO BALANCE THE EGO Pt. 4

DISCUSSION WITH DR. LEXX: HOW TO BALANCE THE EGO (PT. 4)

Episode Summary

On his 16th birthday, Dr. Apples’ mother was kidnapped by fairies and replaced with a doll. Each year on his birthday, he’s presented a doll, which has his mother’s essence. He’s travelled to various planets, dimensions, and realms, questioned, tortured, and pried his way for clues. He’s on a mission to find his mother.

Welcome to the Dr. Apples Universe.

Our host, Lacye A. Brown, is the creator, visual artist, and producer of the Dr Apples Universe (she’s also one of Dr Apples’ assistants).

In this episode of Talk About Apples, Lacye talks to Dr. Lexx James (also known as Dr. Lexx). She is a certified sexologist, licensed marriage and family therapist, founder of the Institute for Sexuality and Intimacy, and best-selling author.

Today, they talk about the purpose of the Dr. Apples character and the theme of “The Ego” from Chapter 1.

Dr. Lexx tells us a bit about identifying an unbalanced ego and the steps you could take if you have discovered it an imbalance in your own ego (check out the Johari Window, it is an amazing starting point to discover your sense of self). 

EPISODE

Lacye: 00:04

Welcome to the Dr. Apples interview series. I'm your host Lacye. And today we delve into the captivating folklore of Dr. Apples. In this episode, we're not just recounting his story, but diving deeper into the theme of the ego. Join us as we dissect this compelling aspect of Dr. Apples journey and uncover the profound insights hidden within. This is part four. So for me, like in terms of unbalanced ego, I would think like, you know, it has to do with accountability.

And I noticed a lot of people can make excuses. I myself, I mean, I check myself a lot and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like let's change that bad habit. I would think making excuses the go-to resolution for everything happening to you versus not accepting accountability like say your significant other dumps you and you state he'll never find another person like that or a friend dislikes you and you're like they're just jealous and or you didn't get the promotion it's like it's because she was pretty You know, there may or may not be some truth behind that, but is that a sign of an unbalanced ego or is that something else?

Dr. Lexx: 01:36

The minimizing part of looking at hard things I would say that might be some defensiveness. I don't know if that's part of an unbalanced ego. I think that's to protect the ego, right? People do that to say, like, it's not me. It's not my personhood who is wrong and who is bad, so they don't feel shame. So they throw up those defenses to try and protect their personhood, their ego, saying like, no, well, it could have been this, this and this. Now my ego isn't jeopardized. Now the person I see myself as isn't any less because I didn't achieve this thing.

Lacye: 02:17

Okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. Okay. So let's say that I'm listening and I'm like, okay, you know, uh, yes, I've identified this, this issue listening to this and I'm, I have a problem, maybe. Um, so now what, so how does one rectify this issue?

Dr. Lexx: 02:45

Oh, therapy one. Yeah. Um, excuse me, it can help. But the second thing is I really, really l

Transcript

#talkaboutapples

Lacie [Intro]: On his 16th birthday, Dr. Apples mother was kidnapped by fairies and replaced with a doll. Each year on his birthday, he's presented a doll which has his mother's essence. He's traveled through various planets, dimensions, realms questioned, tortured in pride, his way for clues he's on a mission to find his mother. Welcome to the Dr. Apples Universe. Hello, my name is Lacey I'm the host creator, visual artists and producer, and welcome to Talk About Apples, the podcast. This is the discussion portion. This is the folklore of the fictional character, Dr. Apples and his universe. It's filled with fantasy, humor and powerful magic. So enjoy. On this episode, we begin in this Hardy's home with a gang of simples. Later, the narrator recounts an uncomfortable situation for kid Dr. Apples. He experiences one of the results of being out of one's comfort zone. Kid. Dr. Apples expectations were certainly not met, and yet he persevered eventually an adult doctor Apples manages to turn that bad situation into something positive and help his local community. These triumphant moments of perseverance always make for great stories. To hear of an underdog. Successes are inspirational, but how do we get there? What happens between point a to point B? So obviously kid Dr. Apples had to continue to live out of his comfort zone in order to achieve success. But what does that look like? It being one's comfort zone. What does being out of your comfort zone feel like chasing success? Do you have a dream, a vision you may or may not have told anyone? If so you're in great company. Joining me today is a gentlemen who had a vision believed in himself so much that in 2019, he took the chance, packed up all his belongings, moved to Atlanta and not only achieved his initial goal of becoming a host of a television series that is focused on historical black colleges and universities, but has opened more doors for himself to produce direct and the list goes on and on and on. You can easily find him on Instagram at yard talk one-on-one and hosting various series on television and online. Please welcome Jaleel Thurman.
Audience: [Applause 03:02].
Lacie: Okay. So, I'm going to be honest. I altered the definition of bit for comfort zone just simply because there was a word at the end, I was having difficulties pronouncing and I don't want to sound foolish but the altered Miriam Webster site defines comfort zone as the level at which one functions with ease and is recognizable. Kid, Dr. Apples begins exploring new ventures and I applaud him for this. Even though he gets anxious quite easily, he still manages to try. He tries and he takes action and I love that about him. So, Jaleel, when you decided to take this career path, at what point did you realize that this career path wasn't a hobby, but this was a new way of life?
Jaleel: So interesting enough, I quit my job. This is what? November. I quit my job 17 almost 18 months ago and I moved to Atlanta and I packed up everything. And in process of doing everything, so I have two storage units. I have one in Atlanta and I have one in Richmond, Virginia. So, I was in Richmond, Virginia before I relocated. And so, when we're talking about, when did I realize that this wasn't a hobby and it was a career? It was when I like kind of like stopped everything come quick, Greg is in trouble. You know? And like that was like that whole thing for me. And so, coming to Atlanta, I used to label myself as, you know, just someone trying to figure it out. I never took it upon myself to say that I was an entrepreneur. And then, and I think the reason being is that, you know, when you try to, when you look at being an entrepreneur or you have a thought process, so of what that looks like, you know, you'd want to have some type of income coming in, but I didn't have it. I legit just was like piecing it together. And so, I had this opportunity to become the host of HBC one-on-one and then I think, it hasn't even been up until recently when I really like was like, okay, this is my career path. Like I think when I moved to Atlanta, the thought process was I'd be figuring out for like three months, maybe six. Right? And I would be, you know, I would stay with friends for like six months, like whatever. I would have never thought when I made this decision to move January of last day, you know, going into November, almost January of 2021, I'd still be staying with friends and like really piecing it together. 
Now, granted I'm in a way different space than I wasn't last year. However, I just would never thought that. And so, to answer your question just as a little context, but to answer your question, it wasn't up until maybe before we started filming season two where I was like, this is my career. Like, you know, it just because I'm not, you know, making Buku money or I'm not making a lot of money and doing X, Y, and Z, that doesn't mean this isn't my career, right? This is all I have. I don't work a nine to five. I don't work retail. I don't do any of that. Like I got my degree in mass communications with a focus on television and I'm a host and producer of a TV show. And at that moment, I was just like, this is what I do. I was a producer TV show and I'm an entrepreneur. I find other hustles and other days to create residual income for myself and which I can then at some point have some type of stability. But I want to say, you know, season two areas September of this year, so I'm going to say August or September of this year is when I really was like, yo, this is your, this is your life. Like I haven't went back to work. I haven't had to go back to work. You know, money has been finding his way in my pockets to pay bills and keep me afloat. So, it's kind of been like, ah, this is, you know, this is your calling, right? You look at it like when you are, you know, three months into something, right? Or six months into something and you are kind of still wondering, but then when you're a year in and then you're a year and a half in, you know, you start really thinking about things differently. Like, ah, this is my life. Like somebody asks me, what do I do? I host a, produce a TV show, I'm also an entrepreneur. And so, it took a day and a half. I didn't take that serious. I didn't actually say, this is who I was and this is my career until maybe like within the last the three to four months,
Lacie: I applaud you for it. I mean, a lot of people don't feel as though it's a career path until they have X sum of money and that's not true. Like you have to go through the process and that is a part of the... That is your career, regardless of whatever amount of money you have in your wallet. It takes building the foundation first, before, you know, reaping the harvest on there. But so, what were some of the first steps you took in like towards this career path? I know you said that, you know, you moved. But what were the steps you took to make you realize that you were consciously making this decision?
Jaleel: So, the first step was, you know, January of last year I had a conversation with one of my mentors and you know what you know, so I have a company called yard talk one-on-one, which is a digital marketing agency that works within the black college experience. And so, the hard talk one-on-one is what has actually gotten me opportunities with HBCU one-on-one and just different things I've been able to do. I originally created the company as a way to do a hit on the street vibe and for those that are unfamiliar, his on the street was a TV show that was on BET. And it was like a guy who used to travel all through New York and just really ask people questions about, you know, topics. And so, I took that type of flavor and to get to HBCU and not necessarily just random topics, but I wanted to educate people on, you know, what the experience is like at the schools. And so, you know, we're talking to my mentor, he was just like, look, if you really want to be successful as a host, right. As you know, in this space and in the industry, you need to move to Atlanta, New York, DC or LA. And so, I said, well, LA is out of line. You know, that's from coast to coast because I was in Virginia, but I also knew to LA is different. It's a different beast. Right? So, I'm cool. I'm cool on LA. New York, I mean, you know, I'm thinking of, I was looking at things from a cost of living point of view. I was thinking of like, you know, if I had to stay with friends, if I do whatever, like I didn't want to be in one of those situations, you know. DC was right by Virginia. I didn't feel like that I would grow in DC.
Lacie: Right.
Jaleel: Because I felt like that would still be too close to things that I'm familiar with. So, I was like, you know what, I'll go to Atlanta, you know, I got some friends out there, you know, I piece it together. And so that's what happened. I moved to Atlanta, I put things so then that was first step was to make the decision to leave. And then next thing you know, I didn't renew my lease. And then I moved, I actually moved Mother’s Day weekend. Like Mother’s Day weekend I moved. I left Virginia and you know, that was, and then so I put all of my furniture is in storage and Virginia, all of my clothes is in storage in Atlanta. So, I use my storage unit in Atlanta it's like a walk-in closet. And so, I made a decision to move. So those are like the couple of next steps. And then, you know, I get out here and I'm just, you know, meeting people is, it's one of those things where you're like, it's almost like survive, survival of the fittest.
Lacie: Yeah.
Jaleel: You either survive or die, you know? Like, and I'm one of those type of people that, you know, I take pride in winning, like not winning for myself but winning for other people. Like I want people to really understand and feel like if I quit my job, if I do this, if I just take the necessary sacrifices, if I put myself in an uncomfortable position, I can be successful. Right? And so, I wanted to be motivation, not only for myself, but you know, for like family, friends, you know, like, yo, if you really want this in life, bro, like you can do that. You just got to be willing to put the work in. Like, you got to be willing to take the lessons that come with it. You got to be willing to, you know, drive where like, whatever it is that it costs, you got to be willing to do it. And so that was like, so when my one of my steps was when I got to Atlanta, which is more, so just keep talking to people, networking with people. You know, and then, you know, using my resources and the relationships that I built over years. And so, then I got the opportunity to host HBC, one-on-one kind of fell in my lap. Okay, cool. We made some progress. I had a dope season one. Cool. Then, and I was like, you know what? I want to come back for season two because I need that. Right? You don't ever want to be a one and done.
Lacie: No.
Jaleel: Like, you don't want to be a one and done, but even for my mental, right?
Lacie: Right.
Jaleel: Like I need something that gives me, like, it fills me, like, it gives me a sense of fulfillment a sense of purpose. And so, when I filmed my show, I get that. And I'm like, why I need another season? Because season one, we kind of got brought in on the back end of things a little last minute. Season two, I can actually prepare for it and I can actually put my best foot forward knowing what I learned from season one. You know? And so, the opportunity came granted, it wasn't a paid opportunity, but I didn't care. Because for me it was just like, you know, what? If I can give season two, the best I got, then the money going to come. One thing I know is that money always comes, you know, you just got to be willing to wait for you got to be patient. And so, I was like, nah, but I really want to do that. And so, you know, over the times of that. So, like just these days are just like, you know, understanding that it's going to come, being patient, taking my time with things and trying to learn along the way. 
And then I started, you know, speaking things differently, you know, and just saying it, and I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a TV host and I'm a producer. Like, this is what I do, right? This is who I am. This is Julio. Right? I also have a CEO of a digital marketing agency that works with anti-black hire space that does X, Y, Z. And so now, you know, you get to a point where it's like, instead of saying, you just trying to make it, are you doing this way though? You, you speak it differently because you're like, well, this is who I am. It's one of those moments where you accept who you are like, yo, you know, my guy, you might be a struggling entrepreneur or a struggling team, you know? So, produced based on a house I'm looking at don't nobody know that, but you. So just be like, yo, I'm a producer, I'm an executive producer, I'm a TV host, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm talent. Like, whatever it is that you want to say, this is what you are. And at some point, things will start, you know, these doors and stuff will open and stuff like that. So, I think it, you know, as I started really doing this more, I think I started to believe in myself more. And so, because I started to believe in myself when I started to speak differently and start to acknowledge myself as more than just Jaleel, you know, a CEO, but a company. But now you're a CEO you host, you know, because that's what I really want to do in life. And then you're executive producer XYZ,
Lacie: And you are all of those things. I like that, you know, like the positive affirmations, it changes your subconscious and it boosts your confidence. And eventually you are what you state, you know. In regards to like the actions that you took were you ever complacent about what you had to do or knew what you had to do as well? Were you complacent about that?
Jaleel: I don't know. You know, maybe I probably had days or times where I just was chilling. Right? And then I had days, you know, but when I first got to Atlanta, I was trying to just keep my mind off of it. Like, you know, like it was like one of those, like, what the fuck are you doing moments? But was like, it was like one of those, like, you know, what are you doing? And so, I would like go to the gym every day because I needed something to do because I didn't, this was before, like I really was moving humbled now where I always got something to do. Maybe it's just like, I'm just like, okay, what are we doing here? And so, you know, like, you know, so it's like, you know, and I think, you know, I don't necessarily would say I get complacent, but I have days where, like, I just don't feel like doing nothing. Like I have days where I just be like, I was just like, I'm cool. Like, you know what? And I might do a little bit here or a little bit there, but like, I won't really like do too much. And then, you know, then I'll have days where I do a lot. And so, you know, I try to have a balance. But I think I'm far from complacent because like, for me, it's, I have certain goals and things that I want to achieve that I'll do whatever to get there. Like whatever it takes, that's really where I've been in. I've been in that space for a very long time. So yeah.
Lacie: I have those, what the fuck moments every now and then. Like after...
Jaleel: Yeah.
Lacie: ... especially after completing a major project. I'm like what the...? What? And I have to take a pause and take a break and just recalibrate my mind because the anxiety comes about and then just a whole cycle of things. But then I ground myself and then I get back on track and then I refocus and I'm back to doing whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing. And then goose, whatever project it is I'm doing. I get it.
Jaleel: Exactly.
Lacie: Alrighty, so you're going along your new journey and it's an exciting career path. And I remember when I started Apple Head Toys and then LEB Sharman, and then finally Dr. Apples, LLC. So, I would imagine when you created yard talk, one-on-one you imagine in your head, like some form of how it's going to achieve its goal? Like it's going to look like X, Y, and Z, but more than likely it doesn't pan out that way and it looks more like "A" "G" negative 4 and 3. So that's when flexibility comes in. So how does flexibility come into play for your career goals?
Jaleel: Interesting enough, it's interesting that you even referenced yard one-on-one in that space. So, I create a yard talk one-on-one as a way to create a TV show for me. So, when getting your degree in mass communications, right. You know, focus on television or radio or whatever, it's not your typical degree. So, you get your bachelors in, you know, business accounting or whatever. Like you're going to do something in a business field with that. You get your degree at mass comm. Like if you got to figure out a niche, you got to figure out a market like everybody that gets a degree in mass comm, the reality of it is they're not going to do something with that. That's just the reality, right? Because it's not enough demand for radio host. It's not enough demand for TV hosts. It's not enough demand for, you know, whatever that is and the mass comm and the mass media field. 
And so, I'm like, yeah, nah, I can't do something that is nothing else is going to fulfill me. Nothing else is going to feel me like this is so I got to figure this out. And so, you know, when I create a yard talk give it was a sense, a way to create a lane for me. And so, we are talking one-on-one, it was like, you know, I 'm just creating a company. It's like a video company. This is a video series. Right? That's all, it was like, I didn't see what it is now and what it is then it was not what I thought. And so then over the years, you know, the company has grown different connections and it was like, wait a minute, we're doing marketing for these corporations. Like, we're doing marketing for like, you know, I was the only, you know, there's anything. I would do anything just to keep my name out there, keep. So, I've done stuff like Ford and Toyota or whoever, you know, battle of the bands, you know, different HBCU's like, and so when you really take a step back, you're like, yo, you're really doing marketing for these people. It's digital marketing. And so then, you know what, we swapped it and we know, so we started to, you know, really try to formulate a brand and stuff like that. And then it wasn't up until this year. So, you know, it's interesting because when you have a company that does something and then you have a brain that does something else and then you bring them together, you have to figure out a way to make them match. So, this, I actually had a conversation with Capital One. We were trying to do a pro a program together. The lady loved my program and she was going to move me up the ladder to the next, you know, to the next people, whether that was legal, you know, vetting us out as a company. She did not. And she said, I can't because your website doesn't match what you're saying. And she's like, so once you update your website that went backwards. 
So, I'm like, cool. And at first, I was frustrated because she had said, you know, at the top of the year and our mind you, this was like September or October, like early. No, it was like September. So, it was like, you know, you'd give me time. Like, you know, but she was like, not January. So, I'm like, alright, whatever. And so, what it is, is that my company went from creating videos to educate students on prospective schools or whatever, right? Perspective con students. So, we went from, okay, I gave a lot, let me, let me take a step back. So, we went from just making videos to then making videos and then talking to students about the HBCU experience. They're showing these three videos. And then I stood and I started to say, wait a minute, yard talk is kind of like an educational thing, low-key right? It's educational and informative. Okay. And then as the company continued to grow and I started having conversations with Cigna and Facebook and Capitol One and Lyft and wait a minute, wait a minute. There are these major corporations that need someone to bridge the gap between them and HBCUs and the HBCU community and you know what? I can do that with digital content or I can help them from a digital content space. So now the whole Capital One thing was like, yeah, now we want to work with you, but you're not matching. And so now the goal of the company now is I got up and get a new logo made, new website, you know, because I want a corporate look because I want major corporations to feel comfortable working with a small black business to get the job done or what they're asking.
Lacie: Right.
Jaleel: Right. And so that changed the whole trajectory. So, when you start, when you talk about, you know, X, Y, and Z, and is looking like "A" negative 4, G. Yeah, because you know, along the way you have a vision for something. And then what happens is, is that you start to move in spaces and rooms that you didn't think or ever could fathom the idea of being in.
Lacie: Very true.
Jaleel: And so now when you're in those spaces, you started to realize that, wait a minute, I offer a service that actually is bigger than what I was thinking. So then now you're trying to revamp and rebrand to match what you're thinking. And I have ideas from mental health to physical health, to financial literacy and all these different things. So, it was like, my mind is moving one space, but my brand wasn't matching where my mind was going. And so, I had to take a step back and I needed to bring my brand up to date to where my mind is. That way we can move simultaneously because I have creative ideas. And I have things that, you know, once vetted out the proper way and put into these dope proposals, major corporations are going to write me a check. However, if they don't feel comfortable by going to www.yardtalkone0one.com, then how, you know what I'm saying? Like, they're not going to take you serious. And so that's when I recently have done that in multiple ways. And so....
Lacie: So, we're going to take a short break. And after this fun segment we're coming back and Jaleel is going to explain what it feels like when you're out of your comfort zone right there smack dab in the middle of it, stay tuned. Okay. Okay. Okay. Since Dr. Apples is out right now, I figured this would be a great opportunity for me to keep my word. So here it is. Bacon. As promised. Bacon. Now let's get back to the show. Well, welcome back. So, my next question is how flexible should you be?
Jaleel: Extremely. So, for example, you know, you got to be open. When I first created my company, it wasn't to talk to kids about going to college, right? It wasn't that, it was about man,  I need to figure out a way to get on and so the best way to get on a spiritual content, but then what happened is, I started, you know, my content was people start to reach out to me about, you know, talking to their kids. And then so I was like, oh snap, because part of it becomes like, I kind of want to be where I plan to, you know, cover to get to this public speaking space. So, I was like, oh, this is opportunity to kind of like, you know, talk to people see what the vibes is like and so boom, right. And so, you just have to be flexible in the space of, you know, you have to be flexible in order to grow because you can't be stuck in your own ways, right.

Lacie: Yes

Jaleel: You have to be willing to take a step back, and at least listen to what people are saying, you don't have to take everything people say.

Lacie: No

Jaleel: But you need to be willing to listen to it because they might have a gym for you. Everything you're not going to agree with, everything you're not going to see, and you might not see it today. But you might mess around and see it six months from now.

Lacie: Exactly

Jaleel: A year from now, and then be like, oh dang, this is what they were talking about. And so that's the key is not only being flexible, but also being adaptable.

Lacie: That is sage advice, being adaptable, it serves you well and even for someone who may assume that a lower role is demeaning, it's not. It actually humbles you and you learn a lot from various positions. I work at a law firm as a receptionist, and I opened the doors for people and in order to be a leader, you have to be a good follower. And I learned a lot from the partners, my bosses that I have, and I've done this for every single job that I've had, I've learned from all of my bosses, to the point where I can run my small business on my own. And after I clock out, and I'm okay and I also know when something's not right, and when I should address it, and when to have some form of flexibility that’s that, but all positions are great learning roles, is when you're the head honcho that’s when you learn, but you don't learn as much your mistakes are your mistakes. Your successes are your successes. But in certain positions, you can kind of learn from other people's mistakes to prevent you from going through various years of doing whatever it was that they did wrong. So, I urge people to actually absorb as much as you can from whatever position you're currently working from. Until you reach that point of whatever boss level you want. Learn from all of their mistakes, learn from all of their successes, it’s imperative. So, I've been doing like my small business for quite some time on attempted less years. I have different businesses, I guess. But for the most part, now I can decipher when I may need to be flexible a bit, or alter my path, which is why I have so many businesses.

Jaleel: Right

Lacie: It requires discernment. But sometimes going too far astray is a learning lesson but and it veers you off your career path. So, my question to you is, where's the balance between flexibility versus not remaining true to yourself?

Jaleel: That's a great question. I think that, you have to be flexible within reason. I think some people lose themselves and they want to fit in so bad.

Lacie: Yes.

Jaleel: And so, they'll just, you know, their morals go out the door. Whereas with me, it's like, yes, I want to fit in, but I mean, I'm still Jaleel you know, and at the end, you have to be willing to stand on your one, stand on your ten toes and, and really understand that some stuff is not for you. Right and then it's okay. I think it's okay, we're understanding that, you know, what, I'm flexible, but I'll do a lot, but I won't do that. Right and that's okay. Right, because I think on any journey, on any path if it's for you, is for you. And if you put in the work and if you stand faithful to whatever higher power that you believe in, whatever your spirituality is, if you staying true and faithful today, man, you can't lose.

Lacie: Also, like, as you are going down this career path, I think it's imperative for you to go stronger within yourself and learn who you are as an individual. You have to do that quicker than most because you're going down a career path, whatever it is, and you can easily be led astray. But that's nothing to fear. But if you know exactly who you are, that’s discernments there, you can say, this isn't who I am, this wouldn't make me happy overall, this isn't even a lesson for me to learn. I don't want to do this, and I say no, and I feel comfortable. It goes back to what you stated earlier about, you know, what you desire, like how yard talk one on one was an idea. But obviously, even like a year, and some months and two it is expanded into something way more than you can imagine. So, I mean, you started off just producing your own show now you're doing so much more. So, I like that. That's cool. That's great attitude to have. But a side question, what would you bring to the show and tell?

Jaleel: What would I bring because I used to have show and tell? So, what would I used to bring the show and tell? I don't know it might be clothes, no, it wouldn’t be no clothes, it would be toys.

Lacie: Clothes.

Jaleel: I would have bought toys to show and tell.

Lacie: What kind of toy you can say?

Jaleel: My toys, I used to have a room full toy. And I just talked to myself, almost always.

Lacie: That’s so cute.

Jaleel: Like from the racecars, like I use to have a two car like I was a kid and the two cars that were like, be real imaginative, you know, wisdom, and talking to him, having different voices with him. Yes, like that was me like and I had toys from like, I might have had like wrestling toys because I was into wrestling. I used to watch WWF back in the day before WWE.

Lacie: Me too, I love it.

Jaleel: Like, I used to have like the little racecar tracks. You know where cars used to be in an easy little track, you know what saying? Like, I used to legit like just play with toys and so I would probably have to just say probably some cool car I might have had. 

Lacie: Okay

Jaleel: Or some car, yes because that's what I could think of. 

Lacie: I was waiting for like an action figure or something.

Jaleel: No, it might have been a cool car action figure. I'm just trying to think what action figures I was playing with it at seven. Well, yes it would have been one of those like, yes definitely an action figured. Power Rangers probably a Power Ranger, I'm sure. Probably a Power Ranger or something. Yes, that did something cool that lit up or talks or moved on his own. You know, like, yes, I might have had a remote-controlled car at some point those are cool, yes.

Lacie: I was like, okay, so you would have brought okay, car. That's cool. I would have like brought a Gameboy color with all my game.

Jaleel: Wait a minute. They didn’t have Gameboy colors when I was seven. So, I don’t know.

Lacie: Yes

Jaleel: They had Game Boys now.

Lacie: Okay, fine, a Gameboy. I would bring my Gameboy.

Jaleel: I don’t know.

Lacie: You stick with your car; I will bring my game boy.

Jaleel: I don’t know what year that came out, but we don’t know if those were out when I was seven.

Lacie: They were out.

Jaleel: All right, okay.

Lacie: You can keep your car.

Jaleel: No, I definitely had a Gameboy. I had the Gameboy colors. I was playing Pokémon. I was getting busy with the Game Boys. So yes, I had the Gameboy Advance I had all that.

Lacie: You can change your answer, it’s fine. 

Jaleel: No, it’s cool. We straight.

Lacie: All right, so Jaleel, do you base your decisions and I mean your decisions to go for the next venture, based off of ease, the end goal or something else?

Jaleel: Man, I don’t know. I think it's all about maybe how I am feeling about something. I mean, some stuff is easier to accomplish to others.

Lacie: Yes, they are.

Jaleel: Some things are the end goal is well worth it. I mean, shit, even this dream that I am chasing. I don't know this ain’t easy and so this about goal [inaudible 10:00] sure. You know what I am saying the end goal, like, whenever we get there, right? Like, it's one of those, I don't know when the fuck we get there, but we're going to get there one day and when we get there, you know, but it ain't been easy.

Lacie: No, to say the least.
 
Jaleel: So, I think that anything that, you know, my father always told me that if it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

Lacie: Very true.

Jaleel: And so, it’ll probably be I think, you know, of course you want some easy wins, right. Some stuff is all right, cool, some easy flips and easy opportunities. But I think a lot of it comes down to what was the goal at the end, you know, because I mean, that’s anything, real estate ain't easy, you know, renovating homes, buying homes and stuff like that. It's not easy. I mean, that's something I'm interested in. You know, it takes time. You know, it takes understanding, it takes work. I've been helping to renovate a building that we have in Chicago and I realize it takes a lot more time than what I thought, and a lot more focus. And so, but the goal, but the end goal, right is worth it. And so, I'm going to go with the end goal, because things that I want ain’t easy. And so. I think it's the end goal for me. That makes me feel good about chasing the dream.

Lacie: That's good, I usually tell individuals who feel like they want to quit, I'm like, that's fine. You can absolutely quit today right now. But you have to ask yourself, would you be happy right here right now? If you stop?

Jaleel: Right

Lacie: If your answer is yes, then fine, do what you want to do. If your answer is no, you'll be miserable, you’ll complain, unhappy, then keep going. 

Jaleel: For what you want

Lacie: You got to look at the bigger picture and just huff and puff your way through it. You know, this is just one of those steals. So, how would you define what getting out of your comfort zone feels like?

Jaleel: It’s bullshit.

Lacie: I agree, 100%, sorry.

Jaleel: I think it’s like getting out your comfort zone is probably it's like when your mom you know, like makes you do something you don't want to do. I know you like your mama. Yes, but at the same time your mom makes you really do something you don't want to do. And it's like, and you can't not do it. Right, whether it was like going to church, right? Because you know, you didn't want to go to church, because you didn’t want to wake up early, or whether it was going to a summer camp that she didn't want you to go to or whether it was not okay. For example, the reason I say that is my mom used to make me do a lot of stuff I didn’t want to do. And so, it's like that, for example, I was in sixth grade. In sixth grade, I wanted to take a class called Home Economics. The reason I wanted to be in home economics is all the ladies were in Home Economics and I was trying to be with the ladies, you know, home make you learn how to cook, shit wash dishes do home stuff. And it was between that or computer literacy. You know, my mother made me get in computer literacy. She said, and I'll never forget that. She said one day you'll thank me for this. She said, because being able to type on a keyboard is going to help you in life. And she was not lying, and you know, at sixth grade. I was uncomfortable. First of all, I had to get a good grade. I couldn't bullshit, it like, right. 

Lacie: Right

Jaleel: And so, it was I had to get A or B or whatever. A's were the thing for me. So, I would always shoot for A's because I'm like I'm here. And so, yes, computer, and literacy seems great. Archie Miller Middle School in Alpharetta, Georgia, I'll never forget, she made me. She was like, no, you're not doing economics here. This is what you're going to do, and it was so uncomfortable for me. But when I got to seventh grade, or eighth grade, and I was back in Chicago, and I was typing papers, like, people was like, dawn, where did you learn how to type like that man? You know, my mom made me take this computer literacy class and that's what helped me today. And even to this day, now, it doesn't take me long to write. And it's because of the muscle memory and stuff like that I learned in the computer class. And so, getting out your comfort zone is the same thing. It's like, you hate it at first. It's one of those things where you're like, why am I here? You know, it's like, even if you see kids do anything or any of the movies and parents forced them to go to these camps or this and they had his negative attitude, right? And they're like, oh, they don't want to because they don't want to be there. And so, they are doing everything they can to get kicked out to not be there, whatever. But then the moment that they accept being, it becomes easier. So, getting out your comfort zone is that is like you might say have a negative attitude, but that shit ain't easy, right? You're kind of like why am I here? What am I doing? Like you're having all these feelings, but when you stay with it, it changes. So, that's what I'll say, get to so to answer your question. That's how I feel when you’re doing things outside of your comfort zone is why am I here?

Lacie: No, I agree it helps you basically helps you become a better person. A lot of the times people like to add, like, for me when chasing success and getting out of old habits, like your comfort zone, it may not be as recognizable. For instance, like, say, for example, I applied for seven grants. And the next day, I got a decline and then that following day, I received the remaining six rejections and like, if my hopes were high, and all my eggs were in one basket, then I'm feeling a bit shitty that day.

Jaleel: Right

Lacie: I also like to add, like, based on my environment, if you know, that was a little bit negative, and maybe more down than usual. And shit, let's just add, like, I just got dumped. Like, it was bad break up too. Let's add that. If there's anything else, we can add in our mind, let's do that. So, I'm having a bad day and my default is to cope through these scenarios but being naturally down. Like, if you're naturally down, then sometimes the habit is to remain down for quite some time. That's a comfort level for you. So, I tell people to like, breaking out of the comfort zone helps you towards success by breaking those bad habits. Like what if I only allowed myself to be down for a day, then after that, I forced myself to, you know, break the spiraling thoughts or, you know, get out, go exercise, just break the natural habits of what I naturally do because after a while, you know, the dark, it's not, sometimes bad situations are comfortable, even though they're uncomfortable. So, you have to get out of the comfort zone, in order to grow as an individual too. I guess I'm speaking more so like self-improvement versus career wise. For those who want to start their career, and they're motivated by you, what would you tell them? Like, what do you do during the dark times? Because I mean, I have them and what do you do when you feel like you aren't in alignment with like, your career goals, or your path to success?

Jaleel: I pray every day. I go to therapy because your mental has to be strong. 

Lacie: Yes, it does.

Jaleel: And if your mental is not strong, that'll defeat you, you will lose the battle because of that. 

Lacie: And you won't even realize it.

Jaleel: You won't because your mental is weak. Your mental has to be strong to keep you going every day, your mental has to be strong to wake you up and you keep reaching out to those people, I mean on this podcast alone, you say, you know, I might reach out, put seven grants in, and then I'll get denied for one and then the next day I get denied for the other six.

Lacie: Yes.

Jaleel: Your mental has to be strong enough to keep going after that, because that'll break you that could break you. Because it's not that those seven was detrimental, right? You know, it could be in the space that you were in. 

Lacie: Right.

Jaleel: You might have put in those seven grants in January and didn't hear back from those grants until June. But let's say May was a hard ass month for you and them you get those red negatives, those, no, try again. Those can break you know; they can break you to a point where you like, what the fuck am I doing? I mean, I got an example. I mean, I go to therapy. I never forget, this was I mean, what I've been doing this Facebook Live series for four weeks going on five. So, let's say middle of September, September 18. And that date seems like that's about right. So, I'm going to go with September 18. I had therapy. I'm going to actually checked my calendar because I like to be accurate when I tell the stores. So, I had therapy September 18, yes, it was a Friday. Therapy probably was at 11 in the morning. 

Yes, it was at 11: 30 and I'm not a crier. I'm not an emotional person [inaudible 20:14]. But that day, I broke down on therapy broke down tears. It was like, what the fuck? And my therapist is a woman, older woman. And so, I hate, like people my age, maybe a little older, okay cool. Older women like that I don’t really like her, she's like in her 60s got to be 67. So, it's like cussing her, I'd be like, deliberately disrespectful. But I say, Doc, like, for real, like no disrespect, like fuck all this, like, I just went like, yo, because I had a moment where I broke down, and was in tears. And it wasn't necessarily just about my career, like, I lost my grandmother in April and so that bothers me. Every now and then because I miss her. You know, I'm saying I never lost anyone before. So, this is my first time dealing with grief in a way of how do I move forward, knowing I can’t hug you no more when I come home? I've never, because it puts me in a space of who's next. It is just so much that, you know, my mind was at. So, on the 29 my career, it's like I needed a window like I needed a win.

Lacie: Right

Jaleel: You'll be in a space where you just need a win. Like, it doesn't have to be, you know, the biggest deal of your life. It has to be something that, but it has to be bigger than what you're used to. And it doesn't have to be as big as what you see in the end goal. But you got to have something that is like confirmation that you're on the right path. Right and so, I broke down. And so, to answer your question, you know, therapy, praying, those have gotten me through in my darkest time. 

Lacie: So, Jaleel what is one action a person starting off with their career or they may be feeling stagnant? What is one action right after this podcast that they could do today?

Jaleel: If they're feeling stagnant?

Lacie: Starting off or feeling stagnant, what would you recommend for them to do?

Jaleel: Write it down and cross it off. And so, what I mean by that is I am old school when it comes to like a journal, or planner, or whatever. Like I at least got like a little journal. I guess that's what it's called. I don't know where write down, like all my things, to do my to do lists things. And I just, my goal is always across them off and so I look at it, like if you write things, if you write down, you know, the bigger picture, but it takes the paint on a brush to paint a big picture. And so, if you focus on the small things, and they'll eventually add up to the big things, but if you write it down, and your goal is to cross it off, then you'll continue to make progress into whatever direction you're trying to make. You see what I am saying?

Lacie: Yes.

Jaleel: And so, then it's like, okay, what did I get to today? Okay, let me table that to tomorrow and just keep going after that. 

Lacie: Now, is that old school? Like, are we old?

Jaleel: I don’t know. It’s not old school but you know with technology these days, no, I don’t even know because people are like, yo, why you just put it in your phone and your notes section? 

Lacie: No.

Jaleel: You need to give me pen and paper, you know what I am saying, like, I need to feel that I need to see that I need to take that with me. 

Lacie: Oh okay. I get a notepad and I get a sharpie and I cross them out. I'm happy when I cross them out. I do that every day. Well, Jaleel Thurman, that is all we have for today. Thank you so much for taking time out of your very busy schedule, to chit chat. 

Lacie: Anything for you.

Jaleel: All right, that’s recorded. So, I hope everybody, well, that's all the time we have for today and I would like to thank my wonderful guest Jaleel Thurman for joining me today. He has a great book available on Amazon titled The HBCU experience Virginia State University edition. It's a collection of stories written by prominent alumni on their successes globally. I along with Dr. Apples would love to hear your perspective on the story, and or any comments or share your current journey? Simply visit, talkaboutapples,com where you can subscribe to the show on iTunes, Amazon, or any RSS feed. Stay up to date with the Dr. Apples Universe by signing up for the newsletter, or simply tell a friend about the show, because that will help us a lot. Be sure to tune in every Tuesday and Thursday for new episodes. We'll talk to you later. Bye. 

Dr. Apples: What you're leaving? Oh, guess I'll see you next week.