Unlocking Human Potential in the Age of AI, with Pukar C. Hamal, CEO and Founder of SecurityPal AI

Navigating AI and Security Assurance with Pukar C Hamal

In this episode of The Wireless Way, host Chris Whitaker sits down with Pukar C Hamal, founder and CEO of SecurityPal AI, a company that addresses security assurance bottlenecks affecting enterprise deals. Pukar shares his journey from Kathmandu to Silicon Valley, emphasizing the potential of leveraging global talent and the transformative power of technology. The discussion delves into the complexities of AI, the importance of cybersecurity, and the evolving landscape of technical talent. They also explore how AI can enhance efficiency in businesses and discuss the future of work in an AI-driven world. Despite several technical hiccups during the recording, the episode is a compelling conversation about technological advancement, security challenges, and human ingenuity.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:59 Pukar's Background and Journey
01:20 The Value and Impact of AI
02:02 Building a Tech Company in Silicon Valley
04:11 Silicon Peaks: Bridging Silicon Valley and Kathmandu
05:24 Pukar's Early Fascination with Technology
09:16 Founding Security Pal AI
15:11 The Growing Importance of Security Assurance
18:30 Challenges and Opportunities in Cybersecurity
19:56 Pukar's Startup Experience
20:33 Hiring Elite Technical Talent
21:13 Debunking the Myth of Technical Talent
23:27 The Future of Jobs in the Age of AI
27:20 Introducing SecurityPal AI's New Product
29:04 The Role of AI in Enhancing Human Work
32:57 Final Thoughts and Future Outlook
38:25 Closing Remarks and Technical Difficulties

More on Pukar C Hamal

More on SecurityPal AI

Transcript

Chris: 0:00

And welcome to the episode of The Wireless Way. I'm your host, Chris Whitaker, and I'm grateful that you're here today. As always, I know you have a lot going on. There's so much going on in business and technology. So thanks for checking out this episode, and I'm equally grateful for my guest Pukar C Hamal He's the founder and CEO of security pal ai which eliminates security assurance bottlenecks that stall enterprise deals. For companies like OpenAI, Figma, and MongoDB. He's born in Kathmandu, raised in New York City, and now living in San Francisco. He built a profitable company with engineering talent from San Francisco and 24 7 Security Assurance Command Center in Kathmandu, proving that world class execution doesn't just require Silicon Valley overhead. He writes about capital formation and the economics of AI era operations. Pukar, thanks for making time today, man. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm glad we got through

Pukar: 1:05

the technical hiccups here, but excited to chat with you, Chris. Thank you so much for having me on.

Chris: 1:11

Yes. It is always a pleasure to meet thought leaders and people moving the needle advancing technology, advancing the conversation, if you will. And, for listeners, you think about the last dozen or so episodes, AI is definitely the common. Theme, right? You can't have a technology conversation today without AI in there somehow, and this is a really good one, a really unique one. We've talked about a lot. It's what's the real value of ai? Of ai? Companies are calling me going, Hey Chris, I need to incorporate AI into my business. And I'm like, okay, what part of your business, what technology? It's, a broader conversation, right? AI by itself is not a product. It's not a skew, if you will. It's it's an enhancement. I'm anxious to get your take on this. But before we get there, as always what's not the bio Pukar, how did you get here?

Pukar: 2:10

Yeah there's a lot not in the bio considering it's, as is the case long. Yeah. But, I think obviously I've had a, I've had a very interesting journey to on my way to Building a AI technology company in Silicon Valley. I feel obviously very blessed to be able to do that. I I was, as somebody that was born in Kathmandu very grateful to have immigrated to this great country and growing up in New York City and I moved out west basically in 2009 to, to enter Stanford. And then my journey to technology was was really a result of realizing that the scale of technology, that technology as a lever is just enormously powerful. You can have so much more more impact, right? As a, as a service worker, like a standard like doctor or lawyer or whatever my parents wanted me to be back in the day. You can you're like single threaded in some ways in terms of how, many people you can help. But with technology you can go from helping times and dozens, hundreds, thousands of people to actually helping millions of, people. And, the scale that it, gives you is tremendous. And so realizing that early on, I think was like a big unlock for me. I've now lived in the Bay Area, Silicon Valley now for 16, 17 years. I think it's the most magical place. I, personally, I think America's the best place to build anything, and I think Silicon Valley is probably the best place to to, do that. If you don't have an existing network and wanna, wanna enter a pool of like pure meritocracy, I think we, we have something akin to that here. Silicon Valley. Obviously there's great hubs around the country. Atlanta where you're based is a great one too. We've got a lot of really amazing customers there. And, and I've, always had this mission of taking some of this secret sauce that we have here of Silicon Valley and bringing it to to other talent hubs around the world that could probably benefit from From this op, what I like to say is an operating system, a philosophy of, building companies and playing the long game. And so I've been working with Leaders and technology and others and, Cat Mandu rum originally actually from and trying to bring Silicon Valley to, and I, think we like to say that our office is exactly a hundred miles away from the top of Mount Everest. And and we're championing, a sort of Silicon Valley and the Himalayas that we're calling Silicon Peaks. Very apropos given the tremendous, backdrop of the Himalayas that, that, exists just a few hundred miles away from, from that, from the capital. Yeah.

Chris: 5:12

Oh that is, fascinating. I love that Silicon Peaks and that, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah. That def it helps people kinda understand where, is Catman do, or you, what's the in relation there? What, have you always been a techie, would you say? Was there a time in your early adulthood or even maybe going back into being a young man, have you always had this interest in technology? Yeah, I think it's a it's impossible not to

Pukar: 5:40

be not to be fascinated and in awe of how much technological progress we've made. Just still, I was, born basically right after the Berlin Wall fell, right? I was born in 91 and we look at going from nine one to today I mid thirties, but people don't wanna do their math. And where, I was born, where I grew up I was born in du obviously most capital city, most advanced city for, Nepal. But I actually grew up in, in rural Nepal where there was no like electricity or indoor plumbing. And we were like really farm farming, rural, a lifestyle. And, I always like to say I've experienced like probably two, 200 plus years of technological progress in my three decades, three plus decades that I've been blessed to be on this incredible planet. And I feel that that is, that has drawn me to wow. There's just, there's so much when I was young I used to look at like planes in the sky and wonder if I would ever ride in one and now. I traveled back I, put 110,000 miles down last year. I was looking at my, flighty app and so wow. In the air and it's just it's your technology's incredibly fascinating to me, always has been. I never thought I was gonna build a tech company. I think that's a little bit of a of, a surprise that I ended up,

Speaker 3: 7:15

I

Pukar: 7:15

ended up there. I don't think it was really like a desire for me to. Build a company. But I think a lot of it just comes from realizing and having great mentors that shared with me that anything is possible if you're willing to work hard, especially in this country. And and so yeah, really grateful about

Chris: 7:34

that. Yeah, that's great. What a great story, man. Have you ever thought about writing a book? You're right to go from rural Nepal, no energy no electricity, no indoor plumbing to just moving to New York City and now San Francisco, and now a tech company. You're, that's a, you have perspective. You have a deep perspective that so many people. Probably can't even begin to really grasp. I don't know that's a stretch, but it, seems that way to me. You like for me from my background I spent 10 years in the army. I never thought I would be in technology, but I've always been a gadget guy. I've always loved what different technology, how I can make life better. I've always been a big student of efficiency and effectiveness, which is all about your company. I think your company really. Helps businesses become more efficient and effective, and we'll go talk about that. But but no I, it is a fascinating story thanks for sharing that, man. I, really appreciate it. Yeah. And thank you for your service.

Speaker 3: 8:32

That's that's tremendous.

Chris: 8:34

Thank you. Oh, yeah, no, my pleasure. People like you were worth it, man. I it's funny when I joined, I didn't really know if I thought of it that way but back to your point yeah, there's society in general. There's always a great community of people doing amazing, great things. Yes. Unfortunately, because of human nature, there's always a component of people not doing. The right things and all, but I think generally speaking, we all are more alike than different. We all just want a fair break. We want a fair chance. We want a roof over our head. We want food in our stomach. We're all more alike than different. And I do my best not to focus on the differences and try to embrace what we have in common and just respect, hey we're not always gonna agree, but we can still be friends that's right. Yeah. Thank you for that. And so pivoting a little bit, one of my favorite words for listeners that may not know security power AI yet what problem were you seeing in the market that made you say this has to be fixed? And how did that lead to found in the company?

Pukar: 9:36

Yeah i, didn't think I was gonna build a company in the, cybersecurity assurance space. I was previously a co-founder of an HR tech company. So human resources technology company, circa 20 16 20 17. When I joined that founding team and we were building a a, recruiting technology that was powering some of that. Biggest companies in the world in, their recruiting efforts, companies like Uber and Lyft and Allstate. And as we were selling our product more and more up market, more and more to enterprises after 20 2018 we started seeing more and more of these, these security compliance assurance related questions in the sales cycle, right? Like a lot of times people wanna know about, okay does your product have this feature? That feature? Like how efficient is it gonna make us? What does the ROI look like? There are a lot of these questions about product and features, but after 2018 we we started seeing a lot of questions about security stuff, like how do you encrypt data? Where, is it stored? Who has access? Are you doing pen tests, firewalls, all these different types of questions. And I realized that there was a, new legislation that was passed in Europe called the GDPR, general Data Protection Regulation, which is effectively like a data privacy regulation. And the. The gist of it is because so much, because the internet had eaten away at so much of what we do, right? The, famous quote from Mark and software was eating the world, right? And because software had done was so effective and efficient at eating the world over the past few decades. It had created a lot more risks in the internet era for data, for healthcare data, personal data personally identifiable, sensitive information about our about who we are. And that had increased the threats online. And so when companies were entering and when two companies wanted to work together. It wasn't just enough for you to figure out how you were gonna pay for the tool and whether the tool was gonna work. You actually had to figure out if the tool was secure or not. And that's this, it was a new sort of like hurdle you needed to cross in your journey of selling your product. And so as a result of that what what I realized is, wow, we gotta get through this problem, this challenge. And the way that the, initial problem showed up was effectively like a security questionnaire. You have to fill out these massive security questionnaires, and there wasn't a good way of filling it out. You have to like literally sit down and, open the spreadsheet and fill it out manually, and it would take like days, hours. You don't know what the answers are. You don't even know what the questions are asking sometimes. And that was really, you know what I like to say is every problem If you look at problems as problems, you're not really gonna get anywhere. But if you look at problems as an opportunity, then you know the paths open up. And so I really saw that as an opportunity. I was like, okay, here's a challenge. And so that was really the spark that sort of lit the match eventually for security power, which was realizing in my previous company that I ran into this problem and then eventually realizing that other leaders in technology. Other sort of mentors of mine former colleagues of mine were also running into similar problem. And that's what led me to sign my first customer. Before I'd even incorporated my company, they were interested in working with me. And so that's how I knew there was product market fit underneath here. And as we turned the pages on the company now we process over 10,000 questionnaires. There's hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars of revenue that depends on security, power uptime. When companies like OpenAI, Figma, MongoDB D script, superb base when all these companies are, distributing their incredible products out there security power is here and, helping those those incredible enterprises accelerate. The way in which they demonstrate assurance to those customers because they do have best in class security. It's all. There's a difference between having best in class security and assurance posture, security posture, and then being able to effectively communicate it to customers on the market and regulators. And there's a tremendous amount of work that needs to be done in that journey. And we effectively help make that happen in a much smoother way. And so we've obviously moved beyond just security questionnaires to helping companies with vendor assessments. It's not just when you're selling your product, you also have to ask the similar types of questions and concerns when you're purchasing products and tools. And then there's also other, assurance work that has come up, like audits and all types of different regulations that are coming up around the world like this. 160 plus different countries that have their own sort of version of GDPR and data privacy regulation and industry standard regulations. And so the, market is massive in terms of how do you demonstrate assurance during that commercial transaction on both the buy and sell side and we effectively help accelerate that.

Speaker 3: 15:09

Yeah.

Chris: 15:10

Wow. Where do you think we are in terms of the market that you're, serving? How mature is this market?

Pukar: 15:18

Yeah. On the, security assurance side, I think we're still in the very early innings. And I think it, it's getting earlier and earlier in the sense that in a normal baseball game, as time goes on you, move up in the innings, but here, technology's moving so quickly that you might actually be going from inning two to inning one because the, of the next game. Yeah. No, in the sense that the problems are compounding faster than technology's ability to solve it. And so the game is actually stretching. In, in in that, sense. Hopefully my analogy isn't breaking down, but if you're an inning four or five, you're maybe halfway through a baseball game, but here, if you're inning four or five you might be, you might go from ending two to ending five. But you might actually be going from 30% of the 40% of the game to 20% of the game just because the complexity is growing. But yeah, competing at

Chris: 16:11

such

Pukar: 16:11

a large

Chris: 16:11

scale. Are you saying maybe by doing the due diligence and going through the process, you're identifying new problems? Yeah. You're exposing new vulnerabilities, you're. You're yeah. The, yeah, that's, I do agree with that. The, more you dig into something, you start to find that it is more complex of a problem than you originally thought. And then even in my world I we talk to companies all the time. It starts out with, they just need a simple question about how to secure their mobile devices and an MDM conversation, but then we it goes down these different rabbit holes

Pukar: 16:44

yeah, it's networks are incredibly complex and they operate in a world of factorial math. And so devices are exploding. The number of humans that are coming online is exploding. The number of humans that are you know, the building applications, the number of applications are exploding. We're actually gonna be going through a yeah, I don't even know if supercycle is an appropriate word for what's gonna happen in the world of software. There is going to be an absolute, just like Cambrian explosion times 10 in the world of software just because of how easy it is to build software with the chat GPT, quads and some of these other app application builders that make it so easy to just open a terminal window and literally in natural language build an application from scratch. And so this is we're, just in the very early stages of this unfolding and. When chat first came out, my initial thought was this probably overnight 10 x the cybersecurity market. But I think I underestimated it. I actually think it's probably a hundred x or a thousand x that over the course of the coming decades, just because security is this fundamental thing that we all need as humans to interact with, one another. Without security, you're not gonna leave your house. You're just not gonna do anything. You're just gonna stay put. And so in order to power commerce, in order for us to have a, commercial economy in which we are engaging with one another in which we are in order to have a dynamic economy you need you need a lot of, people, businesses and entities bumping into one another without security, that just doesn't happen. It just freezes things in place. And delivering security, providing assurance to businesses, to people as businesses do transactions with one another it's gonna be even more important, but the threats, again, are just that much worse today. If it used to be the case that the hackers of the world were in some ways, hackers were constrained by your ability to code. So you actually had to learn how to code. You actually had to learn computers, and so you actually had to be smart enough and, you actually had to like put energy and effort towards being a bad actor. But if you could hack systems in natural language. That increases the service area of potential people that can actually hack, right? So it's not, you take everybody that has the intent to do something bad, and then in the old world it was okay, you have to have intent, time, skill to do something bad. But in this world where you can communicate with machines in natural language, you merely just need intent and ability to string together a bunch of tokens and words, and you can do. Tremendous damage, and that is incredibly risky in this new world that we're entering. And that's that's something that we're hoping we can play a small part. And combating those risks for for growing enterprises.

Chris: 21:32

I believe you are, I believe you are having do I have this right? Two startups? You've been a part of two startup companies.

Pukar: 21:41

So Yeah, the last one exited to another company and was, I was an early employee at my first startup, was exited to to, Monster Jobs monster Worldwide. Which is a big job board company back in the heyday. That's right. I remember that one. Super, super Bowl commercials back in the nineties, two thousands. But yeah, this is my third startup that I'm part of. Third. Okay. Second that I've that I've founded. Yeah.

Chris: 22:09

So so this next question I think is unique. I this is a technology show and in a lot of ways so you've had a lot of experience around hiring talent technology, talent. That's why I love to ask the earlier question. It's have you always been a techie person?'cause there's a lot of articles I've read that there's a shortage of technical people talent. There's not enough young people that wanna get into true behind the scene. Technology. Everyone wants to use technology, but everybody wants to be a a wizard behind the curtain, if you will. On that note what's your opinion? What separates good technical talent from elite talent in today's market? Yeah. You

Pukar: 22:50

know, I

Chris: 22:50

think

Pukar: 22:51

In terms of in terms of technical talent, I think we do a disservice by making it seem like there's some sort of a yeah. Insurmountable barrier to being technically. Adept in some way, or being technical talent. I think anybody can do it really. I think most being, technically literate today is the bar is incredibly low. Again, these technologies have made it so easy to be able to do that, right? And so, one, I don't think it's anything special to be a, technically literate talent. I think to be great in any sort of part of it it just requires practice and running into enough of the problems and I think generally, like being elite at something is just doing it over and over again, such that you've ran into all the edge cases and if you have a thousand hours of experience in something you might have run into maybe 10 to 20, maybe even a hundred edge cases that you can solve for. But somebody that's has 10,000 plus hours of experience in something who just ran into many more edge cases, understand. The total contours of that skill map in a way that somebody with, less experience does not. And then of course I think the, only way to like really get those reps and that time invested is you have to, love what you do and you have to be willing to do it even when it's not the most interesting thing to do. So I think for me, elite elite, what separates elite talent from. From just let's just say standard talent is really the the experience, but the experience really comes from a willingness to learn and just spend time doing it even when it's not interesting. And that can only happen when you, really have a lot of passion and, interest in in, the topic that you're you are, trying to become an an an expert elite and

Chris: 25:02

okay. As we're talking about talent and, personnel and people and staff another topic that comes up a lot with AI is it's gonna take my job. I, so I gotta ask your opinion on that. As you're looking at growing your company are there jobs or roles at your company or other companies you're seeing that will be performed by an AI bot versus a human being? What's your thoughts on that? You

Pukar: 25:26

know, my my general thoughts on this is if you are incredibly comfortable in your job, in the sense that you are used to doing the same thing over and over again and you, don't really have a desire to learn new things and you're excited to just collect the paycheck for doing the same repetitive workflows and stuff like that chances are that's gonna get automated because the more repetitive something is, the more predictive predictable it is. The more predictive it is, the more decomposed it can be into steps that AI can just take over. And really, like my advice to anybody in in any industry is to not chase comfort and not drive towards towards, spending a long period of time doing the same thing over and over again. But really chase complexity chase tricky situation, chase problems. And that is where AI is not going to be super adept at at handling at least not for another, my, my core philosophy is I, still think we're about 10 years away from. What could be defined as a GI, although those timelines are extended in some ways I would say that if you had showed me the AI of today, 10 years ago, would I have thought it was a GI, I probably would've said yes. But that in some ways is how primitive my thinking of AI was back then. And also I think in some ways we're anchored our A GI, definition of a artificial general intelligence and AI that can do everything and replace all of us is is a little bit anchored by the jobs that we all do, which seem fairly automatable. But the reality is we just have not been around long enough as a species to run into the, to the really challenging. Problems. There's so many problems around the world today, yeah. There's, still like 30, 40,000 people that die from the flu every year, believe it or not, and and that's just the, tip of the iceberg. Like all these diseases all the, sort of conflicts resource constraints. So there's a tremendous amount of challenges that we're all facing. And and I would say chase complexity. And chase trickiness and, problems. And that's like where all the opportunity is. And people, should, and by the way, I think fear is a great motivator. And so I think if you are a little bit scared, concerned about your current disposition, it's a real good opportunity to assess what is what is it that you really want to do. And not all of us have the luxury people have like families and homes to take care of and all these other things. And it's a tall order to ask people to reassess the skillset that they might have invested the last 10 to 20 years in, in building up. But you could the fundamental skillset that are gonna matter though are, gonna be how good are you at building human to human relationships?

Chris: 28:40

That, that's good information about ai. I think we're all safe. I agree with You That's another thing I love. AI's not gonna take your job. Someone that knows how to use AI is more likely to take your job. So you gotta be curious. You got to constantly be learning and growing with technology. But pivoting back to SecurityPal ai why would a company work with you and, gimme a specific example of what issues are you solving for them?

Pukar: 29:08

So we we just launched a new, product recently, which effectively gives our customers the same capabilities as like an FTE on their team. So our fundamental philosophy is that what most FTEs internally at companies did that were repetitive, wrote hackney, day-to-day work. That's all gonna be done by ai. And so we built these concierge agents. Quincy, who's our questionnaire yes. Connoisseur. I love all these names,

Chris: 29:40

by the way. I love how you named them all.

Pukar: 29:43

Yeah. Libby, for Knowledge Library Management. Venue for vendor assess management. So we have all these agents concierge agents, and they are hybrid agents, so they are, they have a AI front end, and ui. But the backend is really powered by people and, and, our proprietary software and data that we've collected over the past four or five years. And it just it's like having a 24 7. Team member that understands your needs, understands the problems you're looking to solve, and you could just assign the work to Quincy, assign the work to Libby, assign the work to Vinny, Tracy, like all these different agents that we've built, and they'll just do it and they'll use the tools. They will get the context from the different tools. And they work 24 7, 365. This isn't 40 hour work FTE, right? And the individuals on the team I, I think people shouldn't be afraid of that because that's coming. Whether you want it or not, like that's just gonna happen and business is gonna make decisions from a, from an efficiency standpoint. What's really exciting though, for the, for our internal teams, the companies that we're working with. It's not replacing anybody. What it's allowing our customers to do is actually shift. To the, to change complexity like I talked about, right? To actually do the work that's truly complex, the human to human compact that you need to do, right? Doing customer facing work, doing real time triage jumping on something that requires an extra perspective, more strategic thinking. Weighing trade-offs with full context, like there's so much more work to be done within enterprises and the talent. We hire incredibly talented people, by the way, with bachelors and masters and PhDs. And we hire people that can do like insane calculus or, deeply understand human psychology or have been on the battlefield like in Chris, right? Like incredible complex humans that are so skilled. We put them in front of a computer to click buttons and send out forms. There's so much skillset that needs, that we can mine from our existing workforce that is literally just stuck. Is not getting exposure because they're spending most of their time facing software and facing forms and facing buttons and clicks and cells where they could be like facing real challenges and, helping businesses in much more compelling ways. So I'm really excited about that feature. That's really the vision with our concierge agents, which is. Hey, hire our concierge agents. You're gonna get a department for effectively the cost of an fte. Like you'll get literally thousands of hours of productivity per week, or cost of an of, less than an FTE. And then the folks that you have hired on your team that are incredibly skilled can go work. On much more challenging problems. I'm driving growth for the business. And so we're really excited about this, future and and, and that's that's what we're mainly working on. Yeah.

Chris: 33:01

No, I love that. That's something to be excited about using technology to make us more efficient, more effective, get more work done. And I agree with you. It's great to have the bots to do the grunt work if I could call it that's the right word, but it's that repetitive. Just grunt worker. You still need that employee, that person that you know, has the compassion, has the empathy that understands the client. You still need that person to quality control, check it if you will. It's almost always. At least 99%. That's right. That's right. That's right.

Pukar: 33:32

AI's not a hundred percent of the way there. Just like you said, right? Like you need the quality checks, you need a AI's gonna run into tremendous amount of edge cases and corner cases. AI's not gonna be able to weigh the trade offs of this customer who's might be a little bit more important than this other customer because they're going through something that this other customer's not going through. Only you have that context because you had dinner with the customer last night and it was a really deep conversation. AI's not gonna have that context, right? There's, a lot of data in the real physical world that AI's not gonna have context on. That is the opportunity in the surface area for humans to escape freely on. And we should really leave behind the day-to-day clicking and, and. paper chasing that we all do, because that is just not what humans are put on this planet for, you

Chris: 34:21

know? That's right. We're very social beings. We still need that social interaction. And, that's right. Yeah and we have to focus on that. I think that's smart companies are the ones that embrace that concept. Pakar it's been a great conversation. I know we, we've covered a lot. Definitely check the show notes. I'll have links to learn more about SecurityPal AI and Pukar and his team. Is there anything we didn't cover? Anything you want to go over? Any last words you wanna leave us with? I think a lot of leaders

Pukar: 34:54

are gonna hear a lot more about AI and there's gonna be a lot of concern and, what I think I would say is the more things change, the more they stay the same. And so let's think about the, what are the things that are not going to change? We still have 8 billion people on the planet and we still have tremendous problems and challenges that we need to solve. From all the diseases, from all the sort of conflicts. We still have a whole universe that we need to explore. We don't even know that much about our own moon We haven't even been to Mars yet. And so I always think about one day maybe I'll go visit my, my, my grandkids or something like that in their Martian colony. I hope to be able to do that one day that are like the types of dreams that I have from rural Nepal to one day setting foot on Mars to visit my grandkids. Because that's where they that's where they live. It'd be nice if we could

Chris: 35:54

teleport. It'd be nice if we could teleport by that point.

Pukar: 35:57

Who knows? There's a lot of really incredible light cell technologies technologies that allow us to move much faster. I don't put anything past human ingenuity. I think the thing that we don't wanna be, we don't the, yeah. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. I'm like, that's. Don't let this sort of like concern about AI paralyze you. This technology is actually much more accessible than people think it is. Yeah, it's incredibly easy to learn. And if you don't know how to learn it, you could literally ask it. Hey because I tell AI all the time, I'm like, I'm too dumb to know this. Like what I'm trying, how do I

Chris: 36:39

do this?

Pukar: 36:39

Yeah. How do I do that? I'm literally, I'm too stupid. I don't know. Please explain. I explain it to me like I'm five years old. One of my favorite prompts is to just say, Hey, Eli five, quantum Computing or Eli five some geopolitical event or something like that. And it's just incredibly powerful at explaining those tools and you can talk to it. So I think it's, never been easier to start and get started on these technologies. And again, it's okay. You're bad at it in the beginning. Everyone is bad when they're learning something new. I'm a. I, I was shocked to find out I'm a top 0.01% ChatGPT user. I feel like I'm barely using ai. I feel I'm so bad at ai, actually compared to some of the other folks that I'm using. But turns out I'm, better than a lot of the people out there in terms of in terms of my experience. And so just don't be afraid of the technology. Use it, learn it. Realize that like the planet is an incredibly big place. That's incredibly complex. And as long as you're chasing complexity with good intent and putting honest effort to to learn new skills and up level and asking the right questions from the management team, and you're talking to your boss and talking to your peers about how you can solve this problem in a better way. You don't, I don't think. Those are fundamentally good behaviors. No matter what the timescale was, they were good behaviors to do 20 years ago, 30 years ago. They're gonna be good behaviors to do. 10, 20 years into the future. So I'm incredibly bullish on,

Chris: 38:09

on

Pukar: 38:09

humanity and our ability to get through this.

Chris: 38:12

I agree with you a hundred percent. That's some great words to end on. Be curious learn, and it's something you said about you're surprised that your rating and ChatGPT, one thing I've, learned the more you learn about a topic. The more you realize you really don't know that much. Exactly. Again, more than the average person, but to have a knowledge of how what a delta there is, right. Of what a true expert is. So I live that life every day. Yeah.

Pukar: 38:39

Expertise is, realizing how little you really know about something, yes. Humbling mastery. Yeah, exactly.

Chris: 38:47

But, it gives us something to work toward, right? That, that's, that fuels our fire. That's what you know. To try to add value. I think learn new skills, so you can always add value to your colleagues, your customers, your friends, your family and, you will go far in life if that's your, if that's the goal is how can I add value? So again, thanks for adding value to us today. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thanks. Thanks again, man. Check the show notes, guys. There'll be ways to get ahold of Pukar and his team. Thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. I'm glad we were able to get through this.

Pukar: 39:20

Thank you, Chris and wonderful chatting with you again and hopefully we can record another one that'll be

Chris: 39:26

much

Pukar: 39:26

smoother.

Chris: 39:27

That's right. That will be our plan. And folks, there you go. Another episode of The Wireless Way. And as always, if any part of this struck a nerve or you thought about a colleague, you thought about a customer share this episode with them. Check the show notes again. Please look further into SecurityPal ai. This is where we're going folks. It's not the future it's, now. Again, grateful to Pukar and his team joining us and being available. Check out the website, the wireless way.net, and I'll see you on the next episode of The Wireless Way.

Chris Whitaker: 40:01

That was a fantastic conversation with Pukar, but what you don't know due to the metric of editing, we had a lot of technical problems. And just a couple of a minute of some of the excerpts and take takeouts it was a great time. I appreciate Pukar being a good sport and hanging in there with me, so check these out. Okay.

Chris: 40:25

Gosh I'm, edit that part out too. I'm, this has probably been the most. Interesting episode I've recorded in five years. This is I apologize. We found our way

Speaker 3: 40:36

through it. You knows, we

Pukar: 40:37

found way through it, right? That's right. This is I think this is, good commentary on how human jobs are not gonna be taken because why is it that we have all this technology but nothing works. Exactly.

Speaker 3: 40:52

And that's that gives me a lot of hope for humanity.

Chris: 40:56

It does. It does. All right. Whew, man. Woo. That was, like I said, that was rough. I'm sorry about that, man. That's all right. We've,