How Paris changed the life of Jane Bertch (La Cuisine Paris)

There's no way to lead into this gently... Jane Bertch inspires me!

Jane has lived for decades in Paris. She left Chicago until work brought her to Europe in 2000. After not naturally having Paris on her radar, Jane eventually found her way there and almost by accident she started her cooking school. The success of La Cuisine Paris is no accident though! Hard work and determination has got it to the amazing place it is today. Years ago I did a class at La Cuisine Paris and absolutely loved it, so it is no surprise to me that it is a raging success!

Speaking to Jane in this episode uncovered some great musings about Paris, France, how we get to where we are and considering the big decisions in our life! Even so, it's the little things in France that can make a difference. An invitation for coffee is sometimes not just a request to join for a cuppa!

As well as discussing cooking in Paris, Jane and I touch on how we can be tolerant and understanding, how we as women can lift each other up and how we can find joy in our own lives, which at my place involves fun times in our Shenanigans Shed! "This is not the waiting room for death!"

Tune in and escape to France with us xx

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Louise Prichard is the host of the Loulabelle's FrancoFiles podcast.
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Loulabelle's FrancoFiles website

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Bonjour et bienvenue to the Little Bell's Francophiles. Je m'appelle Lou, and aujourd'hui I'm welcoming you back to episode 203. That's episode 2 Sans Trois in season 7 of the podcast that keeps your Frenchy vibes fluttering, just to help Francophiles around the globe immerse in all things French and escape to France virtually wherever you are listening in from today. Aujourd'hui, we are chatting to a woman who I have wanted to meet for some time. Jane Birch is the founder of the English language cooking school La Cuisine Paris, and I'm fascinated to delve right into her story. So bienvenue to the Little Bells Francophiles. Jane, Savard.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Oh my God, yes. Très bien. Je suis super content d'être here with you.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

I love, I love that you have French in the mixed in with everything you're doing. That's fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

I call it Franglais. You know, it's just a bit of this and a bit of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Listen, I still speak Franglais every day.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

I do understand everything that's said to me in French. And I'm, you know, pretty good when I'm there at answering back. But it just, you know, when you're not there all the time like you are, I just pepper it through my, you know, it's through the way I speak. And that makes me feel a little bit connected, which is kind of nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah. Well, for me, you know what, Lou, it's still it's a very hard language for me. And, you know, I say that after being here for quite some time because I don't want people to get discouraged, but I also want them to be e easy on themselves. It's it's a tough language. And if you're tired or nervous or shy or upset, you know, it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Sometimes it's hard to express yourself in English, let alone in French. So I can do that. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now, Jane, I know that you are very busy with your cooking school La Cuisine Paris, but we'll come to that in a moment. Firstly, I can obviously tell from your accent that you're originally from the US. Is that right? It absolutely is. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yes, I'm from Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Chicago, Illinois.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yes. And so how did you come to be living in France?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Oh, Lou, it's too early in the morning for me to start drinking.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

And I'm already at one o'clock here, so there we go.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

But you're you're you're perfect. You're you're the hour of the apparel. Um I actually I worked in a bank for the first part of my life. And um that bank was just a wonderful experience. I I really lived and breathed that. Um, and I did that for many years. That's what brought me to Europe uh back in 2000.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

2000.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Can you imagine?

unknown 2:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

So I would have been a baby.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I was a baby. I was two years old. I'm teasing when I wish. Um, I have spent more of my life living outside of the US than in the US, but I still very much identify with being a Chicagoan.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Um, but it's more the spirit of what Chicago means for me from a nostalgic point of view.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Um, but yeah, I I worked in a bank for many years. It took me to London, it brought me to Paris, and then, you know, whole life chaos decided that I was no longer meant to be on that journey. And I had this crazy idea to start a cooking school, and here we are. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

That is insane that it just went from bank to cooking school. Like, you know, just to flow so naturally. It's just quite bizarre. Did you always have a connection to France, though, do you think, earlier, like before your work brought you there, or it was not on your radar at all?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Lou, it was so much not on my radar that I did not like Paris. I am the one person on earth that actually scowled when this wonderful opportunity came up, and I learned it was in Paris. My first experience in Paris was really a tough one. It was uh the classic, you know, three days in London, three days in Paris that that a lot of North Americans do. And it was when I had graduated from high school. It was a gift from my mom, and I just didn't feel like I fit in at all.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Really?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

And I found the city really tough. Yeah. But you know, as a high school student, all you want to do is fit in, and Paris will let you know that you're visiting.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yeah, yeah, true, true.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

That absolutely, you know, and this was many years ago when people were not speaking English as well as they are now, and maybe customer service was a little different.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

So they really have come uh I was gonna say come a long way. It's not that, they've just shifted, I think, in the way in which they deal with English speaking foreigners. And I think that's yeah, you're right. I think that's kind of been uh hand in hand with the way that English has become quite a global language. So maybe they've shifted a lot in line with that, because you know, back in the 80s and 90s, we didn't hear English being spoken in France that much compared to now. And you know, in Australia we would have French songs that come up here, but when those artists would come out to Australia, they needed interpreters on shows with them. They didn't speak English at all. And so it's really come a long way since then, I suppose. But when you came there as a student, or you know, when you'd finished high school, did you have any French at all? Or were you, you know, coming there you know completely French version?

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Complete novice. I've I took Spanish for years in in school.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

And um, of course I had my little French guidebook.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

But uh yeah, I was not speaking French well at all.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

So I wonder if that Spanish might have helped you with French later on, because they're they're not the same, but of course they marry up a little bit at times.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

You know, can I uh I'll confess, and I'm gonna blame it on the way that we teach languages in the US, and maybe it's a better situation where you are. Uh, but we don't teach languages well, or we didn't teach, you know, I'm dated, this is years ago, but you know, my Spanish class was 30 people and we just did vocab exercises and it was written, and you know, my Spanish teacher was a non-native. So, you know, the I I didn't learn how to speak Spanish. I learned how to conjugate verbs, I learned how to read little bits, but we just didn't, in my generation, didn't learn language as well unless you were really enthusiastic and you really pursued it. Yeah. The average education, I think, kind of didn't do great.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Yeah, I can understand that. I think it was the same for me at school. It's an interesting thing, isn't it, that they thought that that was going to make us fluent. Or maybe that wasn't the purpose to get us fluent. It was just to get us, if you ever go there, you'll know how to ask something. But I don't know that I actually got that. All I could remember years later when I went back to studying French as an adult was how to say, open the window. And that is not going to help me when I'm in Paris or in France at all, I wouldn't think of a intro. Like that's not gonna help. That was it. That was all I could remember. It's crazy now.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

There there will be one time when that phrase comes in handy and you'll be ready. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

So I've been practicing I've been holding on to this since I was 15 and here it is.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

You've been practicing your whole life for this, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:23

I know, I know, how funny. So, from that point when you got the opportunity in the back, how did the decision come about to open up a cooking school?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

So, um, to be 100% transparent, I had a few family traumas that reminded me that life is too short. And I started to question what I'd been doing with my life. You know, I'd worked kind of tooth and nail to get where I was, and I and I'd done, I'd done well. And to then one day wake up and say, what am I doing here? Am I meant to be here? Which happens to all of us. In hindsight, I realize how can we not ask ourselves those questions? The Jane 20 years ago is a very different Jane than she is today, or the Jane that made a decision two years ago to do something is different than today. So um then I asked a very big question about what I what I wanted to do with myself. And I allowed myself to really daydream and imagine. And somehow this crazy idea, maybe not so crazy, you know, you're meant to be where you end up, I think. Um, this idea of having a cooking school popped into the discussion with friends on a New Year's Eve when we were imagining other lives that we could live.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah, and and I just let it haunt me. I just let it sit with me. And then I started playing with it and I started asking more sp specific questions. What would it look like? Where would it be? What does commercial property look like in Paris? And when you allow yourself to pursue these delusional ideas, and now I understand how important they are, but when you allow yourself to pursue them, you're gonna be dazzled with what may happen. But we shut ourselves down with oh, that could never happen, or I'm too old, or I don't have enough experience. Instead of just playing with it, and being open to the possibility. That's how La Cuisine is here. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

So when you were there working and you you weren't enamored with Paris when you went there early on, had that changed to the point where you thought, okay, I can live here now in some kind of long-term fashion?

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Um obviously it did. But you're asking a really eloquent question, which is, did I consciously decide that? And I can't say that I did. I just really tried to live in the present and give myself, you know, to remain in the present, but then have a future project and a focus that, you know, lit fire under me. And ultimately I did say, you know what? I'm meant to be here. And I'm okay to be here because I'm okay to be different.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

I I will never be a Parisian girl. Um, I will always be an American Jane in Paris. And I and I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah, that's absolutely okay. In fact, I think a lot of people would be envious of that Jane that lives in Paris, that American Jane in Paris, because I I wonder sometimes, and I talk to a lot of people who say, I'd like to do this, I wish I'd done that. And I love the way that you seized that opportunity, you opened yourself to the possibilities, and you took that leap to say, right, I'm just going to try and do something. And, you know, to actually immerse yourself in that fire that was burning under you. I think that's a really special thing to be able to look back and say, look what I did. I took this opportunity, I took this chance. But for other people to look at that and say, maybe I could actually take a chance and do something. It doesn't have to be what you did, but you know, we're only here once. Take a chance. Do talk about what the possibilities are, you know. I I love that. I love that you did.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Yes. Yes. And that's so important because that's the only secret.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

I'm not special. I didn't do anything special. The only thing I did that I encourage us all to do is to one, allow ourselves to dream and imagine, and then two, dare to pursue it. And you know, you may get to some point where you say, Oh, that was interesting, but I don't need that in my life anymore. Yeah. Or you may find yourself on a completely different path. And both are fine.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

So has Paris grown on you since that time way back then?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I guess it has. And in unexpected ways. You know, again, I'm not Parisian culturally. Um, but then I, you know, I have my network of people that are North American that don't live here will say, Jane, you're so Parisian. Well, I'm not. Um and or no, and and and it's then some of my friends that are local that are native, I'll do something and they'll say, You're more French than I am, and I'm not, or they'll, you know, it's I'm still very much between cultures, but there's things that I do love about this city. Um, but it's always the people in it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

You know, this city is nothing. It's it's it's the relationships, it's the interaction, it's it's the way everything in France that's meaningful um has weight and uh presentation, even down to relationships.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

And and I love that. Yes. And I love that.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Do you know I find that when I'm there, the architecture just draws me in all the time. But it's not just the architecture. I mean, we can study a period of time and look at the architecture of what was built in particular periods all the time. You can go and see things and go, isn't that amazing the Romans built that? Or this was, you know, during the time of, you know, and we can see Marie Antoinette's influence on certain things in Paris or Versailles, whatever. All of that is wonderful. But what I always bring myself back to is imagining, well, who lived there? Who are the people that were there? What were their stories? What was life like for them? What do they do during the day? What do they eat? What was what was happening for that person that lived in that little spot? What happened inside that window in a little cottage that's in the country somewhere in France? I I actually always come back to the people and I want to know their stories. And that to me is more magical sometimes than the city as it stands, you know. I think you're so right. It comes back to the people. And even now when you meet the people, that's what gives the city and gives Paris and France more generally, I suppose, that's what gives it its its magic and its life and its exuberance and the light. And I think that um sometimes, you know, people go there and they want to tick off all the lists about what they're going to see, but sometimes it's stopping and actually immersing with the people that is the thing you'll take away with you to remember.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Absolutely. You really hit that nail on the head. I mean, you know, the city is but a reflection of the people that live in it, their choices. One thing that Paris does really well, thanks to the people that live here, is the ability to turn the mundane into the exceptional. And if we look at architecture, I mean, Lou, the city is beige. Whenever has beige been a sexy color in the history of never, right? Whenever have we considered beige? Sexy. Okay, but somehow Paris has turned it into opulence and elegance in using that beige and and making it beautiful. You know, you can look at door knockers, which should be in museums. I mean, that ability to turn the day-to-day into something that's extraordinaire is really done well here. And that translates into the way people treat each other. You know, a coffee date. I never, I learned this early on. When somebody invites me for coffee, I always say yes. Because it's not the coffee that's an extension of an invitation to know them better. And I never book anything on the back side of it because you you give it the time it needs. So it's just, you know, a um again, a coffee has become, which is a mundane activity, has become something exceptional.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yes. I'd never thought about it like that. That's quite a good intuition. Like that I suppose that's a way that your intuition has changed. And perhaps Paris has changed you. Do you think Paris has changed you since you've been there?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, Lou. I mean, when I first moved here, you know, again the things I've learned. I come from a market uh commercial uh economy in the US. You know? And when you move here, you'll realize, particularly if you're functioning in a business capacity with locals, i.e. French business owners, you can't pay them enough of money to work with you. They will only work with you if they trust you. And that trust only comes through time and commitment. And that's something I I learned that has certainly affected me, not just in my business relationships, but you see the same with friendships. Friendships here and the use of that word is so deep. Um, so to have someone who you call a friend signifies a lot more here than it does in the US. If I can draw that parallel, I can only speak to the US, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

I think it's an extraordinary place, and I think the way that you describe it when you were talking about, you know, how they make the the beige chic and sexy, whereas normally, you know, that'd be mundane, and even, you know, the exceptionalness of having a coffee. When I went to your cooking school, so I went and did a class there, and it was a macaron making class, which is a few years ago, which was amazing. But even where your school is, so it's in this divine kind of they're like it's not catacombs, but they're they're like in these beautiful bricked in almost going underground, but it's not quite, that's near the the metro tunnels that are on the other side of the walls. But they ain't they're like hundreds and hundreds of years old, these spaces that you've repurposed for the kitchens. Oh my god, I just loved every moment of being in there. And then the actual class was just incredible, and I was buzzing the whole way through it. Then I was staying across the river, just you know, I could walk back home to the apartment I was staying in, and I stay in the same apartment every time when I go to Paris now, which is great and I have been for years, but I then looked out the window and I could actually see further up, there was your cooking school further up the river, and I sat there eating my blue macarons while I was, you know, looking out the window at the river and looking at that, and it was just it was quite a surreal kind of moment, and at the same time, it was a beautiful memory that I hold with myself now of that afternoon. I sat there having those with an apro in my own apartment, watching the sun go down and you know, having had a beautiful afternoon, and it made me think how much joy an activity like that can bring to people when you like I said before, a lot of people go just to tick off lists. But sometimes it's important to engage in something that's going to feed your soul. And for me, doing a cooking class is that kind of thing. I met other beautiful people who are doing the class, it was an amazing teacher you had in there. It was you know just such a great experience. I can't recommend it highly enough.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Oh, Lou, I'm so happy to hear you say that because when you start a business, no nobody knows anything. So let me say that because it's a successful business is the one that does what clients want, right? And and you don't know that until you until you cut your teeth a bit. But one thing I have come to realize and I've learned and I try to make sure that we deliver is we're not doing cooking classes, we're doing memories.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

So if I could bottle what you said and turn it into an infomercial about la cuisine, it would be perfect because there's so many things that I've come to understand. And I always refer to La Cuisine as something separate than me. She's gonna be 17 years old, and she is a very different personality than than I am. But it is such a uh space that I um I'm humbled that we have people from so many different walks of life that come. And the beauty of that is they have different religions, they have different political views. You may be standing in a class next to somebody who on television appears very scary. And for those three hours or two hours or four hours, whatever it is, you're us. You are working together for a common purpose. And I think those spaces where we can still come together and still all believe in are so precious these days.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

So La Cuisine for that moment uh is a safe space where people are united.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

And I and I love that you met wonderful people. And you know, food is meant to be shared. The one thing I will say is I came from a family where um a very modest family, but everything was always around a meal together.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

All the big discussions happened around the kitchen table. All of the, you know, important moments were around food, and that is something that we should be sharing with each other. It is not meant to be elitist. No, it's meant to be inclusive. So I I'm so glad that those were the things that I feel like you were saying you took away, and that makes me so happy.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Oh, absolutely. It made me wonder, you know, I didn't realize that it's now been going for 17 years. I mean, your baby is now 17 years old, which is just incredible that it's just been going so wonderfully for so long. How has it evolved from what you started to what we now see?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Oh goodness. Jeez. Well, first of all, I can't it'll be 17 in October. So this is very non-French of me. I should not say it's 17 years old yet. Because you can't wish somebody happy birthday until the birthday has actually come. It's bad it's bad luck here.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

I say I have a whole birthday month when it's December, so don't worry, I'm with you. It's 17. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Exactly. You're you're a December baby as well. I'm a December baby. When's your birthday? The 5th. I no, I'm actually a Capricorn. Oh, are you? Oh, you're late in the year. June 23rd.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Okay. Oh, you're just into the Capricorns. Yes, no, I'm early in December. I did arrive in Paris and woke up for my birthday a couple of years ago. It was the first snow of the season, and so I can't. Wait to be back there again for my birthday at some point. It was just so magical. I was by myself, I was staying right near school again. And it was just, yeah, it was just a beautiful, beautiful experience having a birthday in Paris. It's lovely. Because in in Australia, it's been summer for always for my birthday. I've had a pool party every year of my life when I was a kid. So you know, going and having snow on my birthday was such a novel experience. Other people would say, Oh god, I've got a birthday in winter, how horrendous. Oh my goodness, how beautiful was that. So I wandered around that day and I wandered past, you know, La Cuisine again. And and yeah, so how did it come from what it was to what it is?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

So what what what is it? Oh God, now I now I feel like I need to sit and think about that. And you know Did you start in the world?

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Just to be clear, we've had some really Were you there when you started? No. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

No. Um so before I do the brief summary of the La Cuisine the musical, as I call it, um, we've had some real tough years. We've had some real tough years and um, you know, really challenging periods. So just in brief summary, what's happened in those 16 years? So we um actually started in a different location and you don't know what you don't know, which was the case there. We were in a courtyard. And uh when you're in a cooking school, even though uh you're not necessarily preparing food on a restaurant level, you create odors. And um a cooking school, because there's so few of them, fall between the lines of just a normal commerce and a restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

But through those years it was deemed that you need to have extraction, and I forget the word in English. What is it? When you're pulling odors out.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yeah, an extraction fan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Okay. I feel like it's something different in Okay, extraction. That makes sense too. Um which we didn't have and didn't realize that we needed.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Um so that that was a really tough period. So it could have turned into a very long, protracted legal battle, but the decision was to cut and figure out what to do. And you know, that was within the first nine months of the business after a lot of money had gone into renovating and trying to, you know, I mean, your first year as a business, you the only clients are usually your friends that take pity on you or some random person that that happened.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Stumble across you.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Exactly. So um ended up that was a very, very painful period and a lot of questions asked, but turned out to be one of the best things that happened to us because we found the location that you ultimately visited, and that was quite exceptional. And we found it because nobody else wanted it. It was an old, crappy, dingy nightclub. Oh, really? If you can imagine. You know, again, you have to one, you have to accept that sometimes the worst things that can happen to you are for your benefit.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

I can say that in hindsight. And you have to accept that even when things look bad, you need to have a vision. And if your vision says it can be beautiful, then you go with it. So this really very dingy nightclub, the vision was, okay, this could be something. So we ended up suiting out the three kitchens that are there. You know, in between that period we've had the Ash Cloud, we've had COVID, we've had so many things that have changed the way the business works. Um, and now we've taken on the facility next door. So you well, you'll have to come back and see it. And now we have seven kitchens.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

You have what?

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Seven kitchens. Seven kitchens now.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Oh my goodness. Yes, that's great. Yeah. How many classes can we do with seven kitchens? Experiences. Like they're not they don't have to be a class, but experiences. We're experiencing food. I mean, that's just incredible. And that French culture. So were you a great French cook before you started the cooking school? Like, was it something that was within you? Absolutely not. Stop it. Really?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Absolutely not. No. Wow. Absolutely not. Never, never pretended to be, don't want to be. Um, again, in me valuing my difference. That's why we knock on wood have done, you know, we're still here 16 years later because I'm okay to um have experts do their part of the business, i.e., my chef team, which he would have been with, yeah, who are wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Incredible.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

And I um work on the overall shell that we operate in and the culture. And um, and those two things can go very well together because we don't try to be each other.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

We come in with what we offer and we partner and we make something wonderful, hopefully, in the end.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

So have you done any of the classes yourself?

SPEAKER_00 26:40

You know what? I I do audit them, but I it's so artificial. I realize that. You know, the other thing I've come to be really fascinated with is I love to study psychology and and how people make decisions and how things operate. That's that's a big part of what I get thrilled about to help me think about the business. And I know if I'm in a class, I'm gonna adversely affect it. And it will run very different than if I'm not in the class because the chef can't pretend that the owner of the business is not there. You know, they they they can, but it puts on a different dynamic. So, and and I am not somebody that that does cooking classes regularly, it's not my form of pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Oh, well, I I find it fascinating the way in which your story has come to where it is now. And I also, you know, I it makes sense to me that a cooking school, you know, if you have a chef that opens a cooking school, they need someone to run the cooking school. They can't do everything. You cannot be a master of all things. And so you obviously have these wonderful skills that have been able to put this all together and make it work. It doesn't mean that you have to actually be the one that's running the class. So that's you know, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah, and and this, and if I can just expand upon what you said, yeah, taking it way out of the context of Jane and La Cuisine, this is a message for all of us that the differences that we have are what make us stronger. You know, we should never walk into a room and shrink because we feel like we don't have the same experience. Uh quite the contrary, even better. We have a different experience that is probably gonna complement and make the overall picture better. Yeah. We forever change it because we're there.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah. And also I don't think we should walk into a room and judge somebody else because their experience is different to ours. Um I think that sometimes that happens a lot, I think, for people who may have different experiences from others where, you know, they might either be a different colour, they've come from a different place, they've got a different religion, they eat different foods, um, they look different, and then they're judged. What I found when I was, and you touched on this earlier, what I found when I was having my experience at La Cuisine is that everybody was just there enjoying the food and wanting to learn. And so it didn't matter where anyone was from. I don't recall it actually even being an issue. But we didn't talk about that. Everybody went around and said who they were, you know, what they do in their real life. Uh when I say real life, what they do in their their life outside of being a tourist in Paris, what they wanted to get out of the class, and also a little bit about what they like with French food or how good a cook they are, or all that kind of stuff, all those little details that makes their personality who they are. And I think that what you said before about this is a good leveller, this is a way that you can come and you can all be equal in the one spot and without judgment, right? That was just so real. Like we all wanted to do a great job. And I thought, oh, you know, of course I'm gonna be great making these macarons. Well, I was hopeless at it. I was hopeless at it. And then, you know, eventually I had to practice so many times before I think I finally did about three or four that were any good. And you know, it was much harder than I thought. But there were some people who thought that like me, I I thought I was gonna be great and I was hopeless. Others that thought, oh gosh, I'm never gonna be able to do this. And they were brilliant from the the get-go. So it's kind of a a situation where wherever you come from and whatever whatever you bring to that experience, really you leave it at the door because you all come there as equals to have that beautiful experience together. I think it's a very special thing to be able to do that and provide that for people when they're tourists. It's actually a really good lesson in tolerance and understanding, I think.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Absolutely. Yes. There you go. So again, if I can bottle that, now I've got like a five-minute infromo.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

I'll I'll do a little ad for you. It'll work brilliantly. So now, okay, so now you live permanently in Paris. Yes. What is it that you love about living there? I know you mentioned before that it's the people. Is that what it is that you love about being there?

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Um, I it's the people, it's the interactions. I've come to love walking. It's a very walkable city. I love that. Um, Paris makes you work hard for things in every way. But it's almost like when you're growing up, this sentiment that your parents want you to have, which is to work hard and cherish the things you have, Paris does that for you. So getting those relationships that are important, it takes time. Um, getting an apartment takes time. Um, you know, it's it's almost like you have to do your time to have a good life here. Or to have an integrated life. You can absolutely come and and just have a fabulous moment. But if you really want to get to know the people that are living in and running this city, then you have to you have to give them time to do so.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

You have to really immerse, not be there on the surface. Right. So how is your life different than if you were running a cooking school in the US, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Wow. Um, how's my life different? Oh geez. I I should probably talk to some cooking schools in the US, I'm sure, you know, anytime you have a business, anytime you have a business, there's you you you operate in a different way in the city. So I would say my life is different in that I have a different labor laws that I have to work in, which can be frustrating. I probably have access to more beautiful products and experiences than if I were doing this in Chicago. I mean, that's something I'm very grateful for. And then, you know, of course, it's it comes back to the people and and these wonderful, you know, this little bubble that I live in and the ecosystem and the people that have been a part of it are really just a blessing. You know, they're such a part of my day-to-day.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Do you get out of Paris much to regional France?

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Not as much as I would like to, Lou. Um Burgundy is an area that I love. Uh Normandy is an area that I love. I love the city of Lille. It's a hidden gem. I wish people would go there more. It's only a 45-minute train ride. But what I love more, and you know, this certainly exists in the US, but I feel to a different extent. Here you get a sense that France is really so different. You know, the people in Normandy are so different than the people in Provence. The products are different, the terroir is different, and France is just so diverse, which is really beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

I love that when you're in those different regions, because I I road trip around France a lot and go to all the different regions. And yeah, I've got faves, but really I declare every new place that I go to is my new favourite. So, you know, that I just love all of it, really. But what I love is that what is there, and the terroir is really important with this. What is there is what's evolved through time organically from when people have been there for you know thousands of years, and so some of those traditions that they have are very different across France in the different regions, the foods that they eat, the way that they operate. And, you know, it once upon a time, even the language they spoke, but now it's all French across the whole of the country, although albeit with different accents. Right. I don't notice the different accents, I've got to say, but French friends of mine will say, Oh, those accents, people who are down in the Basque region will say, Oh, we can almost not understand the people that are up in the Shti region and vice versa, and they all have their versions of having a go at each other, I suppose. But I think that those organically evolving kind of foods, traditions, and ways of living, I find really fascinating how different they are from place to place. And I love just immersing in them in different places. And I've I've said this previously on a podcast just recently that I now instead of trying to cram in as much as I can, because I've been to nearly every region, now I actually want to go and spend long periods of time in a region or just two, you know, for six weeks or whatever, and just spend that time in a small amount of space and really immerse in the culture and the traditions of particular areas because, yeah, as you say, they are so different, but I treasure that how different they are from place to place, you know. It's such a fascinating thing to observe that as a non-French person, as a tourist, because I'm never going to be not a tourist, I'm always going to be a tourist, but to then experience one region and then go to the next and go, oh my goodness, that is so different, you know, from where I was before.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

I love that. I love the difference and I love the organicness of that. I don't even know if that's a word, organicness, but the way in which it's grown up from when people were there. And I think that comes from living in a fairly young country. And I say that a bit guardedly because Australia has the most amazing Indigenous history that goes back over 60,000 years. But the Western history in Australia, which is where I get, you know, my family history comes from Europe. And so that European history in Australia is very young. And when I go back to where my family would have lived, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years ago in France and other places around Europe, and watching how those customs that we now have in Australia, where they actually came from and how they've grown up in that one space, I find that quite magical. Yeah. See that in practice.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

So I can see from your socials that you are a very busy woman. What is going on for you now? Because you can't possibly be actually running la cuisine in the same fashion you have done over the last 16 years, and you've got a book, you've got all sorts of stuff going on. Tell me what's happening for you next.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

I'd love to, Lou. It's such um I'm starting to talk about it more and more. Again, in the spirit of ideas are organic and they grow. And to grow an idea, you have to be in the right soil, you have to have the right community. You, you know, there's so many things that come to play. But I ultimately feel like those ideas are usually a reflection of what you've thought in the past, and it's just not been the right time for it to germinate. So one thing that's always been really, really passionate to me is working with women. And um, even I said this to somebody a while ago, and I thought, how old do they think I am? When I uh did my undergraduate in college, it was a BA in English with a minor in women's studies.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

And the person looked at me and was like, oh, there there were women's studies back then? And I'm like, yes, when I when there were horses and buggies. I'm like, yes, there's women's studies.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Um but there have been women's studies since the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

So, you know, I think Well, and I'm like, there's and I'm like, there's been women for quite a while too, by the way. Um, it was it was just a funny reflection. Same reflection I had from somebody when I said when I started La Cuisine, and they were like, there was no Instagram then. How did you get clients? And I'm like, well, we know how to hustle. We're we're different generations. Um, and anyhow, that's always been a subject that's been very passionate to me. And yes, I I did write a book um that came out two years ago in 2024. And um, you know, it's basically a story of how I got to where I am. So it is a memoir. And I met so many wonderful people because I was willing to share my story. And I remind people that my story is our story. Take away the Paris. It's all about finding yourself, about taking risks, about falling down a thousand times, getting up. But thanks to that book, I ended up seeing so many women in my age category, 45 and above, who really resonated with the sentiment of I can do anything. I can be someone else. I can decide today that I love everything I've done up to now, but it's no longer me. I'm an expanded version and I'm gonna do something different. So that's become something I've really been focusing on the past uh year and a half. And it is now its own business. I now have a separate business that I'm that I'm growing, which is very much around providing experiences for women 45 and above to just remind them of how infinitely creative they are. And the runway in front of them is as long as they want it to be. This is not the waiting room for death. This is, you know, I know so many women in their mid-50s, 60s, 70s that are just getting started. And I want to surround myself with them and I want to bring them together because that's how we inspire one another. And that's how the world benefits because we have so many ideas and so many things we could be doing. And if you find yourself in the right community, you're gonna shine.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

You're gonna make me cry because that you are just singing to the right person. This is the way that I believe we need to view women who are, I won't even call them older women. We're just women with experience. We're women who absolutely and so much experience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so much.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

And so much, my gosh, you know, so much experience and have seen so much change. And um, you know, one thing in particular, I mean, I I have retreats for women, but one thing I'm really working on, Lou, that is really in its infancy, so I can't even share anything with you except for the thought that I want to have a tool where um women of a certain age that want to pursue something entrepreneurial, and that can mean different things. That doesn't mean starting a business. It could mean I want to take on a leadership position in my church or in my YMCA, or uh, but wants to develop that spirit, a tool which will help them really dig in and do some diagnostics about all the experience they've had. And guess what? Being a a woman that stayed at home to raise her family, there's so much experience there. There's there's logistics. I mean, that's a military.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

She's got skills, she's got amazing skills.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Completely. And to harness that, help to bottle it, help those women that say, you know what, I do want a separate income. I do want to have my own stewardship and to provide a tool for them. Because what disturbs me now is I look around and I've been to a number of startup incubators. A lot of the people there are early 30s and they're male.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

And they're starting all these wonderful new businesses. And I ask myself, is that because women 45 and above don't have ideas? No. No, absolutely not. It's just that we don't have maybe the network, or maybe we need a little push on the confidence, or maybe we need the right community or the right tools. There's so much that society is missing out on our ideas because we don't have the infrastructure to bring them to life. And that's something I want to change.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

I love that you're doing this for the change that it might bring to society. I think the way society views women of that age is sometimes pigeonholing them, and then they start to believe what they're being told, you know, when they're overlooked for particular jobs or when they put an idea to someone and they can't get a bank loan for it, or whatever it might be, these things do knock the confidence. I think you're absolutely nailed it. I think this is so what we need because a lot of women, and again, I'm generalizing, like, you know, as well, but a lot of women may not have earned the money that they really want to earn, or they won't have achieved the things they wanted to achieve, or they won't have reached for the stars in the way they always knew they could, because they took a break from everything to raise their children. And so I I was very fortunate that I worked all the way through and I was able to raise children and still do all those other things at the same time. And now that I don't need to raise children anymore, they're older and they're all done. I'm finding that I've got all this time and this energy, and I still that I'm not ready to just, as you put it, get into the waiting room for death. I actually want to do stuff, you know, and so I don't think I'm alone. I think I've always thought, so what's my next career? What am I going to do next? You know, I've already had four of them. What am I going to do now? You know, where is it? And I think you've really hit on something that a lot of women need some support in to actually take that little bit of an extra step because I don't think some people feel they can do it on their own. Even hearing you talk about it might actually promote some people to taking that step. And I think that's a really powerful thing and a magical thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

I I really hope so because um you know the world's changing around us. So some people are gonna find they've got different work situations. You know, we now have technology that is moving much faster than we do. But just you know, setting that aside, as you were saying, there's plenty of people that just want to feel that they they're gonna do something new and different with themselves.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

And that's perfectly okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

It's the chance to be reborn again. Yeah. So watch this space. I'm I've got some interesting things going on.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Love, love, love. Um, but so tell me what's the name of your book because I'm gonna put the link for that on the website too.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Thank you. It's called The French Ingredient.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

Oh, well, that just makes sense to me. It sounds brilliant. So I will pop the link for that into this blog post on the website for our episode. Now, there are three questions that I often ask on the podcast chain. Okay. And I am going to ask you the first one, which I'm very interested to hear your response. I won't ask you whether you cook it because that's not the important thing, but what is your favorite French dish that you like to order?

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Oh God, Lou, I I'm you're gonna be so disappointed. No, I won't. I'm so boring, and I'm so uh uh well, I don't want to say boring, but I'm kind of consistent. If there is an uff mayo on the menu, I'm having it. Just simple boiled eggs and mayonnaise. That's my favorite entree. And yes, and my favorite main meal is a steak frit. I guess maybe that's the Chicago beef and potatoes. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Um I've had a lot of people say steak frit before, but I have never in 203 episodes have anyone say the earth mayo ever, not ever.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

So that's that's a new eye. Yeah, it's a thing. I can't not order it. It's it's even funny. You know, I'll go out with we'll go out with friends for dinner and they'll look at the menu and it's like, well, we know what Jane's having, so we can order. I mean, I just can't not. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

That's fabulous. Do you listen to French music much?

SPEAKER_00 46:13

I do, I do, but I listen to old French music like disco music.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 46:19

I am a oh my god, Lou, I was born in the wrong, I should have been born 10 years earlier, so I could have really enjoyed the disco era.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

I when I grew up listening to disco, I was too young to be at nightclubs and enjoy it. Yeah, I'm and French disco is fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Isn't it? It is brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Fabulous. There's so many good songs. And so what if some of them like you've got Patrick Jouvet, who actually sang in English because he was so popular. I mean, I love disco music, and French disco music is really good.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

So have you got a fave that we can pop on the Little Bells Francophile's fabulous Frenchie Spotify playlist?

SPEAKER_00 46:58

I do. Ah, okay. I'm gonna send you a link to Patrick Jouvet Ousson le femme. Ousson le femme. Where are the ladies? Oh. Yeah, and which it which is really hilarious because he he was actually a very well-known gay man, but that was after.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

But a gay man's always got to have his girl tribe with him. So, you know, he's always exactly.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

I mean that that will like really get me pop. I mean, there's so many, there's so many. I actually have a playlist of French disco. Maybe I'll send that to you so you can listen to it. You'll tell me what you think.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

And then I'll put a couple of them on the playlist. I listen to the playlist a lot, but it's got the old classics, it's got new stuff, you know, it's got everything in between. So I don't know that it's got a lot of disco though. So this is brilliant because I love, love, love disco. I'm I'm uh, yes, I'm a dance floor girl. I um even now, I did used to joke to my children if I ever had to move into a retirement home, as long as it's got a dance floor with a podium and and kind of a rail around it so I won't fall off. And they have a disco one night, and you know, then I'm happy. Then that's all I need. Disco one night, and then and maybe a hairdresser once a week that visits, I think then I'll be alright. So I could not go without without that. And even now, living in the country, we have what we call the shenanigans shed, where my children have called it that. And we go up to the shenanigans shed, and there's, you know, we play music and whatever. So there's always dancing, there's always disco. You can't live life without it, I say. So I love that you that's your suggestion. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

First of all, I love that you have a shenanigans shed. I love the word shenanigans. Uh shenanigans is as I love that word. And just it's like, what is another word I love? Poppycock.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Oh yeah. Oh wait, and we don't stand for poppycock here. No.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

I love that. I said that to uh a friend of mine that is actually, you know, from this country. And I said something, I'm like, oh, that's poppycock, don't do that. And because she's French and she's proud, she didn't ask you say what is poppycock, but then she started, she was googling what is poppycock, and then she finally came back to me and was like, I've never heard that word, but I'm gonna use it. I love the way it sounds.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Oh yeah, it's fabulous. I I must admit, we've we now in Australia are a big thing, uh it's always been a big thing for my friends and family, but it's becoming bigger and bigger in Australia because it's summer when we have Christmas, we do a thing called Christmas in July. And so we have a big Christmas and July weekend here at my place where lots of friends come and stay and they camp because we're in the country, and and so the shenanigans shed is in is in full swing. So um I'll have to send you some pics of our shenanigans on the Christmas in July when everything is going everyone's on the pool table or they've got the bar up there and it's all having lots of fun. Do you know what I do need? I need a disco ball in the shenanigans shed. Yes, you do. That's what I need to do. Yes, you do. Go with my French disco music. That's what's going to happen this year. Yes, I've made a decision. There we go. Yes. Yes. Now the last question for you, beautiful Jane, is can you describe for me what would be your favorite French day?

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Oh my gosh. My favorite French day. I'm an early riser, Lou. So I like to get up early enough that I can journal, I can have my coffee, and just do it truncu, as the French say, just relax. Then um, I would love to go for a nice long, semi-boozy lunch with a friend. I love today drink. Brilliant. Um, I'm not a late night person, so I prefer a long lunch than a late dinner. Um, so if I can, you know, have a girlfriend and have a long lunch, I'd love that. And then afterwards, something I've gotten into late in life and I'm trying to do more and more that I've definitely picked up from the French culture is culture. Uh going to museums. You know, I have girlfriends that they have to. It's they they feel a loss if they've not gone to an exhibit to broaden their mind or see something different. And I've really come to appreciate that. So I will try to do the same. So that's kind of afternoon, and then maybe meet somebody for coffee. And um I want to be at home in my soft clothes by 7 p.m.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Love it. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

So yeah, simple things.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

I love those things though. I don't know that they're simple. They may be uncomplicated, but they're not necessarily simple. They're quite perfect.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Oh, I love that. Yes, I love what you just said there. I might steal that from you. I'll quote you though.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

Uh you can listen to the episode, it's okay, and then you can play it all back to yourself later. Oh, James, mercy so much for spending this time because it's been such a lovely time connecting with you. And now I'm so looking forward to coming back to more classes at Your Like Cuisine Paris. Perhaps we should, next time I'm there, we should try and fit in a boozy lunch. That sounds perfect as well.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

Absolutely. With pleasure. With pleasure. I would love that.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Gorgeous. Alors, c'est tout, Essa La Fan Oujewi. That is all for another Little Bells Francophiles episode. I hope that you've enjoyed being transported back to France with me and the lovely Jane Birch today. We are now into the seventh year of the Little Bells Francophiles, and in this season we've already had some fabulous chats, and there will be more across the year with some more authors coming up, bricant hunters, or people who have just made the leap and followed their dream to move to France, plus loads of other French stories via our podcast chats. Now to be notified when your episodes are released, subscribe on your favourite podcast platform, or follow Little Bells Francophiles on Insta, and that's where you'll also find lots of my personal French photos, as well as some from our Little Bells Francophiles guests. For all of the links from today's chat, head to the Little Bells Francophiles website to blog post number 203, that's episode 2 Santois, or just write Jane Birch, that's B-E-R-T-C-H, in the search bar on the top right of the website, and this episode will just pop up magically for you. The website link is in the show notes for today's episode as well. Then come and join me next time on the Little Bells Francophiles and we can all escape to France together. Au revoir, dear Jane.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Au revoir, everyone. Thank you, Lou.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Merci beaucoup. Merci à toi aussi. Au revoir de moi, Louise Prichard, bonjour et avion toi, mes amis.