Turning Trauma into Transformation: Renae Van Roekel’s Journey from Prison to Purpose

Today, I sit down with Renae Van Roekel, founder of Connecting to Cope, to explore the journey from childhood trauma and people-pleasing to accountability, healing, and helping others. If you’ve ever felt stuck under shame, guilt, or perfectionism, you’re not alone.

What You’ll Learn 

• How early trauma and being told “you’re bad” became Renae’s internal narrative 
• The cost of people-pleasing addiction, perfectionism, and hiding shame
• Her pivotal moment: why she chose to turn herself in rather than stay silent
• What happens when unhealed trauma collides with family, career, and relationship demands
• Tools she uses now to rewrite her brain: EMDR therapy, Rational Evaluations, journaling, self-care routines
• How negative thinking patterns show up & how to rewrite them with new core beliefs
• Rebuilding difficult family relationships, and how honesty, patience & courage can mend the past

Spotlight on Tools & Modalities

• EMDR therapy – how it helped Renae release trauma beyond talk therapy and regain mental focus
• Rational Evaluations (RSA) & cognitive-behavioral work she learned in prison’s RDAP program
• Daily practices: journaling, self-check-ins, inner dialogue shifts, patience with self

Visit her at www.connectingtocope.com
https://www.facebook.com/connectingtocope/
https://www.instagram.com/connectingtocope/

If you've struggled with addiction, people-pleasing, perfectionism, or inherited shame, Renae’s story shows you can transform your life by facing truth, doing the healing work, and choosing purpose. You can reclaim your identity, your integrity, and your power to choose.

Ready to do the next work on healing your past & reclaiming your voice? Learn more at www.wholisticlivingtherapy.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 2:40 Early Trauma And People Pleasing
• 6:45 The “Bad” Belief And Its Fallout
• 10:40 Turning Point And Choosing Surrender
• 13:40 Sponsor: Remote Neurofeedback
• 15:20 Adolescence To Adulthood: Perfectionism
• 20:05 Family Perpetrator And Dissociation
• 24:40 Illegal Tickets And Spiral To Prison
• 29:20 Cover-Ups, Consequences, And Recovery Skills
• 34:10 Parenting Through Crisis And Repair
• 39:15 Kids Know More Than You Think
• 43:40 Rewiring Negative Thinking Patterns

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Well, hey there, Sober Ladies. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women Podcast, where we talk to incredible women who are in recovery from substance abuse and or have wonderful experiences with healing their trauma and creating new things and are thriving. Today my conversation is with Renee Van Rockel. She is such a force, really. Her story is pretty phenomenal. She was convicted of a felony. She served 36 months in federal prison. She's a mother, a grandmother, and now an incredible advocate for others using her foundation, Connecting to Cope. This conversation is for all of us, truly. It's really about going through hard things. It's about making choices. It's about parenting and maintaining a marriage and really about healing trauma. And she shares very openly about her process, about the tools, things like EMDR, neurofeedback, other forms of therapy that she utilized to help her heal her trauma and begin to become a much more functional, productive woman and mother and member of society. She really does meet people with honesty, with compassion, and really most importantly with hope. So I want you to grab your big glass of water or your favorite mock tail and really get ready for an incredible story with Renee. I know you're gonna love it. Hello and welcome to the Confident Sober Women Podcast. I'm your guide, Shelby John. I'm the mother of three, wife to one, and sober since July 1st, 2002. As sober women, we have something huge in common. And when we share our lives and our stories with each other, we feel that sense of belonging and connection. So we know we are no longer alone. In this podcast, you will hear real life talk about building confidence and transforming your life beyond recovery. So come on, let's talk. I am so excited to be here today with my friend Renee, and we're gonna have an amazing conversation about some different kinds of things that maybe you're used to hearing, but certainly applicable to all of our lives. So I'm gonna turn the mic over to Renee, let her share a little bit more about her story, and then we're gonna chat.

SPEAKER_02: 2:46

Okay, hey Shelby. Thanks so much for having me on today. And hey to all you sober women out there. Um glad I get to share my story with you. Um, my story definitely connects to all of you. I suffered trauma in my preteen years and never took care of it. Um, so everything from that point forward was done in a convoluted way. And I did not realize that that's what I was doing. Um, I dealt with things like disassociation, I dealt with things like people pleasing. I never wanted to say no to anyone, and that actually did become an addiction to me. I don't think I hardly ever said no to anyone. I just wanted everyone to be happy with me. And that related totally back to my trauma. When I was 11, I was assaulted by some boys in my hometown and people I knew. I grew up in a town of 500, so everyone knew everybody. And after the incident, I went home, talked to my mom about it, and she told me to stay quiet and that if I talked about it, if we turned it in, people would think that I was bad, but not my perpetrators. And this was back in the 70s, so that really was the truth, and she was just trying to protect me. I realize that now as an adult, as a little girl. I really didn't realize that. And that really shaped who I became, who I was as a young adult, and uh young wife, uh mother, and led me to doing some things that I am not proud of at all. Some very poor choices. And that led me to federal prison, which is where I started healing, where I started dealing with both my people pleasing addiction, my trauma, and I took some great classes um through RDAP, which is the residential um treatment program that they have in the Federal Bureau of Prisons. And that opened my eyes to a lot of different things that I could change in my life to make me be a better person.

SPEAKER_00: 4:57

That's incredible. Thank you so much for starting us off with such a vulnerable share. You know, it's so um it's so raw, even though we work on um the parts of us that have been damaged from a lot of things. Sometimes when we, you know, still say those words or we share them out loud in public or with, you know, even in privately, it can feel really vulnerable and raw. Um and I don't think it's probably going to be an unusual experience for many people who are listening because, like you mentioned, that time period. Now, every, you know, I feel like every generation has some of its own challenges, but in those different generations, um we didn't have a lot of the resources that we have today around specifically around mental health or abuse or, you know, um, you know, how to talk, how to share that those kinds of things. And so it was a lot, there was a lot of stigma around that, right? And so it sounds to me like, and correct me if I'm wrong, like your mom, you know, was trying to validate you and comfort you and deal with you as best she could as a mom, and just maybe but miss the boat, right? On the kind of like, oh gosh, like this is like not, this is not okay, and was was concerned I mean, hopefully, I think for you, right? For or for the whole family or for everybody, and how the community would handle that. And that's like another, it's like a secondary trauma, we would call that, you know, um, and can be just as damaging because it feels like invalid, it feels invalidating. Um, and whatever the reasons were that they made those decisions at that time, it still feels really hurtful.

SPEAKER_02: 6:39

It does, it does. And what stuck out for me, Shelby, was the word bad. And I didn't hear would think bad, I heard bad. So that kind of became my mantra. Um, I am bad. You know, I let what happened to me happen, which I know now is not the truth, but I kept shoving things under the rug, as we say. And my rug got a really big lump in the middle of it, and again led me to some very poor choices involving people pleasing, involving uh criminal activity, things that I never thought that I would do as an adult, as a person. My, you know, moral background was not that. And it was very difficult. And I think my changing moment was the day that I woke up one morning and I knew I had to take care of it. Um, and there were several options on that day. Um, one of them, and and I tell this story, and it still hurts to tell this story. Um, no matter how many times I tell it, um, it was either to use the gun in my husband's closet or to turn myself in. And the reason I think I chose to turn myself in was not for myself, but for my children. I wanted them to know the true story, the full story. And if I wasn't here to tell it, who was going to? And so that is why I was led to turn myself in. And again, prison for me became a healing journey. The first time I focused on me, first time I faced what happened to me, the first time I faced the fact was that I did have some addiction issues. They might not have been a substance of addiction, but it was to making other people happy and also hiding my trauma. And I think that almost even became a form of an addiction. So I had to find ways to overcome that and become a better person. And that's why I uh found a connecting to cope is to help others as well.

SPEAKER_00: 8:41

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SPEAKER_02: 11:10

Um that that's a great question, Shelby. And I think I've thought about it and dealt with it in you know, trauma work and recovery work, but I don't think I've ever voiced it um to anyone but my therapist, which I am glad to share with all of you.

SPEAKER_00: 11:27

Right. Only what you're comfortable with.

SPEAKER_02: 11:29

Yeah, no, no, it's it's fine. It's fine. I I really have become Shelby an open book because if I can help someone else, that's what I want to do. Um, it came out as perfection. Um I wanted to be perfect, I never felt that I was good enough. It dealt again. I mean, I keep bringing up people pleasing. And I never wanted to displease anyone. And when really the person that I was most displeasing to, I now know was myself. And I also had um substance addiction in my family. Um, my sister was an alcoholic and my father was addicted to Valium when he was in World War II. So I saw the addiction firsthand. And if there was any saving grace to that, I think it was that I tried to be strong enough to never go there. Because in my head, I knew if I ever let myself go there, that that would be the medicine that I chose, that that would be the way I dealt with with what was going on in my head. But how I got from 11 to today, real quickly, is I graduated high school, went to college, met my husband, got married, had two kids, did all the normal things on the outside, right? But on the inside, I was disassociating all the time. There's days in my life where I do not remember. And the closer I got to imprisonment and the closer I got to actually committing my crime, um, the worse the disassociation became. So my coping skill was not healthy, it was disassociation, amnesia, amnesiatic disassociation times in my life that I really don't remember.

SPEAKER_00: 13:09

So so when you say perfectionism, I mean, I I uh I can relate to that too. I was the girl that was never pretty enough, skinny enough, smart enough, exactly any group I was in. So I get that. So is that what that looked like for you? So, like in those growing up years, you were just constantly striving to be like the best at um at school, the best in your sport, the best in your community, all the thing, go to the best college, do the thing, you know. Is that what that looked like for you?

SPEAKER_02: 13:32

Is it it did, it did, it did, Shelby, because you know, if I could fool all them, because I knew in my head I was bad, remember? That's the that's the mantra I had. If I could fool everybody else, at least I had that facade going. And again, you know, wanted to have the best boyfriend, wanted to be the prettiest girl, wanted to have the 4.0. And um, if I didn't do that, I would beat myself up for it. And yeah, I I get that the whole perfectionism thing. It's it's tough.

SPEAKER_00: 14:02

So when you say beat yourself up, was it like negative self-talk? Like obviously I'm bad. Was it, you know, was there other like themes for you around that?

SPEAKER_02: 14:10

And when did these definitely negative thinking? Um and and that carried on through my work life, through my professional life. If I would get a job, get a promotion, um, on the outside I'd be like, yeah, I got this. On the inside, I'd be saying to myself, you did not deserve this. So you would self-sabotage and uh before they would find out how bad I was, I would quit and move on to a different position. So I had a lot of moving around in my professional um life. Um fortunately, I have a very good man in my life. My husband has been. We've been married for almost 38 years, and he knows when I've when I'm self-sabotaging, and he knows when I go there. So I have had that as a coping skill as well.

SPEAKER_00: 14:59

That's wonderful. Yeah, I can totally relate to that too. I've shared a lot of that. Um, the negative thinking patterns that we that we develop uh as part of our trauma narrative as are usually alive and well. And it sounds like for you, like really, you know, people losing, but also that perfectionism really became your drug of choice. And that's no different than kind of like workaholism later in life. I mean, that shows up in a lot of ways. It can definitely be that dopamine hit that we all kind of are looking for when we use substances too, which you know, we're looking for the dopamine hit, but we're also trying to numb out. So um it's it's a little it's a little interesting dynamic there. Um so so you were able to kind of get through your your life. You had you were married, you had two children, and um, when did you feel like things? I mean, obviously um you know, you had these patterns prior, um and um it was showing up for you, and I'm sure creating problems in your relationships and difficulty doing a lot of things. But when did you start to really notice things were starting to kind of go? Was there like a tipping point when things were starting to really go downhill?

SPEAKER_02: 16:09

Or was it just one big crash or it it it wasn't a big crash? Um, but one of the turning points in my life is one of my perpetrators back when I was 11 um married into my family. And so I had to see him all the time. So if you want to see the disassociation queen, you're looking at her. I was so good at family events as being there physically, but mentally, I was non-present. I felt like I was watching the whole scenario above the table or sitting back in a corner when really I was there and you know, actually participating in conversations and not even remembering afterwards. Um, so that was one of them. Um the other tipping point was this gentleman continued his actions, his actions he did to me. Um and he continued them with my family member. She contracted um cancer and ended up passing away. And there's a long convoluted story about that. I don't like to share her story because it's really not my to share. Um, but I will tell you that that was my that that was my spiraling moment. That is when I started um more illegal activity. I was involved in some before um with selling illegal illegal tickets, is what I sold. And that's really when I spiraled. Um I wanted to please everyone. I ran into a point where I couldn't cover what I was selling anymore for refunds, and I could have kept going. But again, I woke up that morning and it was a few years after she had passed, and I couldn't do it anymore. It was either A, I'm done with this, or B, I'm done with this. And I didn't know what avenue I was going to take.

SPEAKER_00: 18:05

Right, right. So Wow, yeah. Sorry for your loss, but I can definitely see how, gosh, how difficult that would um make life, you know. I mean, that's just you're just not only are you just reopening the wound, right? And kind of pouring salt in it, like by having this person back into your life, there's also an element, like we mentioned before, kind of of like um invalidation of your experience of trauma by kind of the the welcoming in of perpetrators. Like we see this a lot with other um kinds of abuse and things. And you know, when people are accepting, you're like, oh, you know, that was in the past, or oh, this person they've changed, or whatever, whatever people say. Um, even if they have, you know, like say say somebody has been rehabilitated and they're like this whole new person. Like I'm all about that. We all get second chances. And okay, fine, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that for you as the as a victim of that of that assault or abuse, um, that it's not gonna reopen and re-trigger all of those experiences. So when that when when that happened, when like that person kind of rewalked into your life, is that when you started? I'm sorry, you mentioned you were selling illegal tickets. I don't even know what that means.

SPEAKER_02: 19:15

Is it like well it it's second, so secondary tickets, and I was doing it legally first and got involved with the group that was doing it illegally.

SPEAKER_00: 19:22

And secondary tickets, like you want to go to a concert and you buy them from like the concert venue and then you sell them on SeatGeek.

SPEAKER_02: 19:29

Um, yes, but you um the group that I got involved with would sell tickets pre-event, and they'd sell more tickets than they had and refund money and use the money as we were going. And so um, yeah, and so I got charged, I got charged with mail fraud, is what the US government charged me with.

SPEAKER_00: 19:51

So, did that did that process for you start before you met that before this person re-entered your life and you kind of run down that spiral? Or was it already?

SPEAKER_02: 20:00

It was after, it was more when my family member got sick, is when it really escalated.

SPEAKER_00: 20:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 20:06

Yeah, because I felt responsible if I could have stopped this person, and and there's more to the cancer, more to the whole story, and it's again not my story to tell. I can tell you my part. And um my part is that I felt responsible for those for the things that were happening to her. And uh some of my family members knew and understood, some you know, did not understand. And so that was a um you know, that that was part of it as well. And I've done a lot of healing from all of that. And again, you know, the the addiction portion comes in. I if if I and I don't know where I got the strength from, Shelby, to not use because that would have been an easy answer, truly. I mean, I've I talked in prison in RDAP and all the things are all like, how did you just not go down that path? And I'm like, I wish I could tell you that I knew it was just inner strength, so I did other things to compensate.

SPEAKER_00: 21:06

Right. Well, you were. I mean, and this is sort of like it's it's very, very similar to things like gambling or other things. Like, if you were doing that, it reminds me of there was a movie, I don't remember, where the people were doing the coupons. Did you see that?

SPEAKER_02: 21:20

I did not see that.

SPEAKER_00: 21:21

I think it was fiction. I think it I don't remember exactly, but these two this this woman got involved. She was in a horrible unhappy marriage. I'll have to look it up. Shoot, I'm sorry. Um, she was in an unhappy marriage and it just wasn't going well. And there was trauma. Like they it turns out later they show like I think they either lost a baby or they really they wanted to have a baby, they couldn't, so they had this like nursery set up and different things, and I it was clearly unhealed stuff. So she got involved, she was always into like saving, and so she got involved in like couponing, but it became like extreme couponing, and then it entered into this kind of like kind of what you're saying, something where they would mail in to get rebates, or I don't really know exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 22:09

Well, maybe I do because I think yeah, I I think I do, I don't remember the the name.

SPEAKER_00: 22:13

I can't remember it. Yeah, but she was doing it, it was ext. I mean, it they were making then this other woman got involved with her, they were like neighbors or something, and they were making like bank.

SPEAKER_02: 22:22

I mean, uh like and I wish I could tell you that I did make bank I just tried to fix it. So I um and I shouldn't say that I wish I made bank because I don't, but I did I I tried to fix it, and that's really where I started my illegal activity is when I tried to fix you know we're fixers, women.

SPEAKER_00: 22:41

Well, we want to cover up, you know, part of that part of that addiction process, and it's very I mean, oh yeah, I'm the master of this too. Like I'm the mistake maker in my family. So um my husband is perfect, you know, and I'm the mistake maker. So like whenever I whenever things happen, like I scratch my car or I run over something or I got a ticket or I broke something, you know, I would always have some kind of um sketchy way I like get I would get this like black permanent marker and be out there like fixing it, you know, or like to try to cover up, you know, and that was even in sobriety, right? I was doing a lot of that stuff in my active addiction, but even in sobriety, like as a way to try to just get out of to not have to face the truth, to not have to not have to speak up and say I was wrong because of the nature of our relationship. And I'm and it's just the way it's my own fault. I mean, I was it was me. It was me.

SPEAKER_02: 23:35

I get it. I I'm there too. And and you know, I I work on those actions still every day. And I think that that's something of with someone who's had trauma or who has had addiction issues or has had, you know, different things, we still want to go back to that. And that's you know, when the the pillars of your recovery come into play.

SPEAKER_00: 23:59

I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I do think that still, whenever a thing happens, I mean, my net my natural way is to get out of it, like to get away. Like that is my that is always gonna probably be my first thought or my first line of defense. Like, I want to figure out how I can fix this without anybody finding out or knowing. Now, the process of going through that now to me is now in like seconds to minutes. It's very quick, but that took 25 years, you know, like a long time. So, like now I can see that happening, and I'm like, no, we're not gonna do that. I'm gonna have to just face the music and deal with the consequences or whatever. But I think because we don't, we all just know the pain, so much pain of the of consequences, that our natural way is to want to get away, numb away, get disassociate, stop the thing, right? Um so I can't tell you the number of things I've covered up and also the number of times, including in my act in my decades-long recovery, where I have seen my husband find things and and experience him having to go through that again, which is uh pretty awful. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_02: 25:15

Oh, I know. I I often think of that as well. And so I know exactly where you're coming from. And the minute something that I do that I still deal with in my recovery is the minute my qu husband asks me a question, just even an innocent question, I become I can become defensive. And so if I become defensive, then what does he do? Then he comes back and says, Okay, what's going on here? You know, why are you acting this way? And so that's just all part of our our trauma, our past, what we had to deal with, I believe, anyway, to get through and going back to old patterns is way easy sometimes.

SPEAKER_00: 25:58

Well, like I said, I just think it's it's it's it is gonna be our natural way, just like my natural way and most of the people who I know who have substance abuse addiction, they're their natural resources to to you drink and use. Like that's gonna be the first thing they think of. Doesn't mean I'm ever gonna do it. Just means that's what I would rather be doing, you know. Yes, that's what I would rather be doing to solve this problem right now. But thank God, you know, I've worked a program that helps me understand that that is absolutely not gonna be appropriate and also done all the trauma work like much like you have. Um, but you know, and it gets better, you know, it gets so much better, you know, and you start to get like the relief, like the relief and the peace comes, I think, later on when you when you don't do that. Like when when we start to realize like where I am today is oh my gosh, like the easier, softer way truly is to just do the next right thing. Exactly. Be honest, to fess up, to feel the feelings, you know. That is where my peace comes from. It's uncomfortable, of course it is. Nobody likes that. Um, but it is the better, it's with the where the piece is.

SPEAKER_02: 27:02

Well, and it's going to be easier down the road. You have to pay the piper, I guess, at the minute you make your mistake, because we all make mistakes every day. And facing up to that is difficult at the time, but having to cover that other mistake to cover the other mistake to cover the other mistake is much more much more difficult and just leads you back to the road that you don't want to be on anymore. And that's exhausting try to live it, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 27:30

It's exhausting. I look I think back and I'm like, I honestly don't even know. I mean, I'm old now, but like I don't know how I did it. I don't even know how I did that because it is a lot to keep up with, even if it's only like small things, but like just your mind constantly having to be like on with the with the thing and then and oh my gosh. I'm so I am I feel like I'm just for so grateful for some well, so many things, but for one of those things is to just I don't have to manage any of that in my life. I'm just here. I'm just here. Who do I not? I'll just show up and kind of take the day as it goes, you know, and that's the thing. Um I'm curious for you though, about your you had children when three children as well, they're young adults now, but I didn't have any kids when I was until I got so until after I was sober for five years. Um no, until I was I actually I got sober and six months later I got I got pregnant and I had three kids in four years. So my kids have never seen me drink, but um, I was still that wasn't I would not recommend that. Um but your kids were older were around when you were going through this and also when you went to jail. So, like, what was that like?

SPEAKER_02: 28:37

It was very difficult. Um so my boys were when I turned myself in, my youngest son was 16, my oldest son was 18.

SPEAKER_03: 28:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 28:47

And uh yeah, they're two years apart too. And I will tell you, um, my boys are my biggest fans, but also my biggest critics. Yeah, and they're probably harder on me in my life at this point than anybody else, and I allow them to be. Um I'm very fortunate, and uh I read somewhere and also learned in therapy, like in cognitive behavior therapy, and I went through through some therapy for disassociation, and that we tend to be as someone who disassociates some of the best parents, quote unquote. But we also tend to uh over overparent, um making sure they are strong individuals, because you probably know in the back of your head at some point they're going to have to deal with your actions or my you know my actions. And so I believe I raised very strong men. And in fact, I know on this day today that I do have very strong, wonderful men that I am proud to be uh the parent of. But it was tough on them, and of course it's changed their life. Um and uh I I I'm just fortunate. So happy that they have taken such great roads. Very responsible men. Both both fathers themselves now. They're 30 and 32. And um I'm a grandma four times, which is the best title I have ever had, by the way. Um and I am so fortunate and so grateful that I get to be a part of all everybody's lives and that I am still on this healing journey. But again, my biggest critics, if they think I am going off the straight and narrow, they will be the first people to jump on me and say, What is going on? And some days I get angry about that because sometimes I think they're too critical. But then other days I am so thankful and grateful for it. So I'm lucky to have a great relationship with my boys, I guess.

SPEAKER_00: 30:46

It's a humbling experience though, right? It is like I think one of the greatest of humility. Um when you you know, when you when you live in a home with with everybody, you know, um, I don't care what kind of lifestyle you have or whatever it is, those kids they know what they know what's up, generally speaking. They may not have every single thing, but they know they hear things, they're listening, they feel the energy in the home. Um, so they pick up all of the stuff that's we're putting down. And um, most of the time, people I have this lovely woman I'm working with my in my practice right now. I love, I love her. I've had the pleasure of working with some pretty signal, I work with a lot of addicts. Most of a lot of them are in recovery, some are still trying. And this one is is definitely still trying. And she came to me um wanting to wanting to get sober and all the things, and we've been working together for kind of a while, and it's just it's you know, we're just you know, we're still trying to work through it. Um, she's just not um kind of just, you know, she just isn't ready, I guess, to commit. But when she we first started, um, she's got all these kids, a bunch of kids. She has like some kids that are older from a previous marriage, I think like three or four, and then two that are like in high school age from her current husband. And um she's like, oh, you know, but like they don't nobody know, like nobody knows that I drank or whatever. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? I was like, I'm sorry, like what how why do you think that? You know, and she's like, Oh, I just you know, I do it privately, I'm in the garage, or I'm I'm I'm in the basement, or I have to I'm like, I I'm pretty sure they probably know they're they go to they're in high school, you know, like they they know their mom smells like alcohol. Yeah, you know, they know that you're passed out on the couch by eight o'clock. I mean, like, I don't understand how you could live in a home with your children who are school age and that you don't they don't know you're drinking. So anyway, that my only point is is they always know what's going on. They may not know all the things, they don't know everything that goes on between you and your husband behind closed doors or what conversations are happening, but they know a thing.

SPEAKER_02: 32:53

Oh, they do, they they know something's going on. And you know, we you know, we all talk about doing what we do. I'm I'm not a licensed therapist. I'm a coach. I've taken some coaching classes because of my past, I feel I can help people. And so that's what I try to do. But what I do want to tell anybody who's out there listening who is having a difficult time, you know, with children, whether they're young children, adult children, is that I believe children are the most forgiving people out there. Just as we're forgiving to them, they are forgiving to you if you start being straight with them. And if they see that you have an issue, work on that issue, you know, find out what they're thinking and take their advice under consideration. And does that mean that's gonna happen tomorrow and things are gonna be fixed tomorrow? Definitely not. It takes small steps and it takes patience on both sides. And some days your child might not be patient with you, but you just have to walk away and say, okay, we tried today. Maybe we took a step backwards today, maybe we took a step forward. But hopefully, you know, those relationships can be mended. They may never be the same, they may be better. Um my boys now, I I feel my relationship with my boys is better than it ever has been, partly because they're adults and partly because we do uh, you know, have this common bond. And that is my trauma. And so they know what happened and they also tell me it's not a crutch you can live with, but it's something you have to live with every day. And so that's kind of the basis of our relationship, and I am so grateful for them. So, people out there, if you're having issues with your kids, it it can be mended, it just takes work and it might not happen in a second. Be patient.

SPEAKER_00: 34:38

So, yeah, the reason I brought it up too is I think that because you said that they're the hardest on you, it's because is my point was is that they they grew up hearing and seeing in things that only your fo your people know in your home. Like only the people that are in this family, in this home, know all the things that have gone on. And so when you're in that kind of an intimate relationship, they will they they do have the opportunity to kind of come up and be like, dude, I'm I'm I see what you're doing here. Or why are you why are you going out with that girl? Um, or why what's going on with this? You know, they they do get to do that, and um, I think it's kind of cool, but it's it's also super humbling when you get kind of pulled out by your child because you're like, I'm an adult, you know, but I'm like, but we're not void of um you know mistakes or wrong thinking, and um, we need to be righted by someone. So what better what better people than your sons? I mean, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_02: 35:35

Oh, yeah. And now since I've had kids of their own too, they're like, boy, this isn't always easy. No, it's not always easy, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 35:43

I think that's the best thing. I'm not there yet, but I can still I can totally understand. Like I remember my mom saying things like that, and just you know, I and I get it now because I'm like, oh my gosh, like or I'll say, you know, you wait, you you know, because my kids make fun of me a lot because I'm like kind of I'm emotional, like my and they're 20, almost 22, uh, 20 and 17. So I have two in college and one's a senior. And so we're going through all the emotions of just you know, them transitioning and being gone. I miss them every single day, my girls and my son, even because he's you know, he's older, and I just I'm just emotional now. And some days are really emotional, you know, and I get all kind of crazy in here, and they're like, oh, you know, political, you know, they make fun of me or whatever. And I'm like, you wait, like you don't know, you have no idea what this is like, what it's like to have people that are with you for their whole life and then they just leave, you know, and it's funny, you know, it's fun, we get it, but yeah, yeah, we do. So anyway, um, what are some of the things that it's one of the things that you talked about that's really dear near and dear to my heart too is um negative thinking patterns. And um, we work a lot with that in my in my practice and in the coaching work I've done too. Uh, really surrounds really identifying those negative thinking patterns and then identifying the triggers for that. Like what is happening right before that? You know, like really starting to hone in on oh, when my husband gives me that look, or when I get a phone call from the school, or my my boss calls me into the office, those things that really trigger those negative beliefs and thinking in your in yourself. And then we really figure out kind of okay, is it like rational or irrational? And then how how can we deal with that part and reverse it or accept it? So it's like a thought inventory. So I'm kind of curious, like what that's been like for you. How have you been able to really get a handle on your negative thinking patterns and and kind of heal that part and rewrite those narratives?

SPEAKER_02: 37:35

Well, yeah, you know, you do you rewrite, you rewrite who you are in your brain and you rewrite your core values, even though I think they always are there, you let them back into be who you are. And again, I talk about RDAP when I was incarcerated, and we would do the rational um evaluations, we call them RSAs, so that in your head, in about you know, a millisecond, you can take the two different things you're face or or the thing you're facing and the two different ways that you could go. You know, the the bad way. Okay, I am bad, so why don't I just do the things that are expected of me because I'm bad, and then what's going to happen if I do do that? Um or take the way that I am, you know, that that I work on living with every day and say if I take the right path, it may be a little more difficult. It may be more difficult at this point, but these are the emotions I'm going to feel. And this could possibly be the outcome, and it's a much better outcome than taking the bad path. I know that's kind of I'm talking in a circle, but really that's what you do. It's a millisecond of your brain thinking if I go this way, it's going to have these consequences, and if I go this way, it's going to be another. And so that's really what I do, you know. And in order to do that, transforming, you know, the things I do on a daily basis, you know, journaling, taking time for myself, finding time to talk with my husband, finding time to read a book or play around of Candy Crush or whatever it is that I use as a coping skill to keep my head on straight, literally.

SPEAKER_00: 39:17

Yeah. Um, we call that a lot like playing the tape forward, you know, like playing the whole tape, like, you know, think, oh yeah, okay, let's think that that, let's think about that choice, you know, like, and then this is gonna happen, then this, then this, then this, all the way till the end. Um, and even if it's not a choice of like something that's gonna be harmful to someone or break the law or something, but really just a choice in yourself. Like, well, how is this gonna be helpful for me? Yeah. Or what is this gonna lead me to? Um, and that's how we can really, you know, begin to understand um how those patterns work and then insert the tools we need to begin to reverse them. And one of the things that we talked about is um utilizing things like EMDR, which is the kind of therapy that I utilize in my practice. It's near and dear to my heart. It's I love it so, so much. Um, I know that it's incredibly effective, much faster than traditional talk therapy, and truly the only way we have to heal the brain at the molecular level. And so I know you do you utilize that source of therapy in your life. And um, I'd just love to hear just maybe like the kind of quick plug for you know what that's been like for you.

SPEAKER_02: 40:20

Um, well, I started out and and I think that starting out with the like the CBT, the art apps, the RSAs, those type of things helped me identify where my trauma sat. But the EMDR helped me release my trauma. Does that make sense? I could talk about it. I remember I remember things in EMDR that I never thought I had the ability to remember. And where my brain takes me when I am going through a session is amazing. And again, it's helped me release the shame, the guilt, the you know, the things I've done since my trauma and the things that happened during my trauma. Um, I hadn't been able to read a book for years before I started EMDR. I hadn't been able to concentrate long enough. And I can now sit down and read a book. I can watch a TV show. I don't have my brain going a million miles a minute all the time because so many things again have my guilt, my shame. And not that I am not regretful for all of my behaviors illegally, people I've hurt, but it's allowed me to deal with them. Does that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_00: 41:32

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I that's exactly what it is. I mean, it basically is a magic wand for for healing the neuropathways that were created way back from those original core events and created those negative beliefs that then stick with us and then get re-um, like the the pathways get carved even further as we have new experiences, like I'm bad or I'm not good enough, I'm bad, I'm not, you know, we carved them even further and further and further. So yeah, uh, that's why I mean EMDR is such a miracle. I also utilize uh remote neurofeedback and offer that program in my practice as well, which is amazing because it's um it's not under licensure yet, so I'm sure someday it will be, but um, we can utilize it across state lines, you know. Um also you can do it at home, so it's so nice. So we set up all the program after we do that brain map, and then you basically do all that training at home. And um, it's just it's just phenomenal what we are learning over the last 10 years, specifically in brain research, even though those two modalities have been around way longer. But um we just get more and more information. And, you know, I think the message from both of us is that, you know, you know, it isn't your fault what happened to you, but certainly is your responsibility to take control of the feeling. And um both of us um are doing that. Um, and really anybody can. So, you know, but there comes a time for all of us when we have to really take responsibility for that. We have to stop blaming our parents or stop blaming our abusers or stop blaming our schools or our community or our country or whatever system and start saying, uh I'm gonna take control of this and you know, do what I can to heal the parts of me that are damaged.

SPEAKER_02: 43:03

So I agree, Shelby. I agree.

SPEAKER_00: 43:05

Yeah. Um, so tell us just real quick, like what you're doing in your work um with connecting to cope and where people can get a hold of you if they want to.

SPEAKER_02: 43:13

Sure. Um, I founded connecting to cope um exactly for the reasons we spoke about today um to help people. When I was incarcerated, I found out how many people were damaged by trauma. I didn't realize that, you know, because sometimes you think you're that lone wolf out there, and when you talk to other people, you find out. And so many people don't have the ability to get help, they don't have the wherewithal to get help, and so that's why connecting to cope started. Um connecting to cope is named for my best coping skill ever. He is my golden doodle, and his name is Cope. And he is just a great guy. He uh he listens to me, he never judges me. Oh, I shouldn't say that once in a while I get a look when I'm walking out the door. So I do get judged occasionally, but he is a great, great, um, great asset to me. And um I have a website, www.connecting to cope.com. I've got some blogs, some podcasts, some different items on there. I do coaching, um, both trauma related, and um I've started to do some caregiver coaching as well, because I take care of my uncle. And so I've taken some classes on that. And anybody out there who has questions, who has been incarcerated, who has suffered trauma, is welcome to get a hold of me and I'd be glad to try to help you.

SPEAKER_00: 44:33

Oh, that's awesome. Thank you so much. I'll make sure I link to those things in the show notes below so people can get a hold of you. And I just really appreciate your time and your honesty and vulnerability here. Um, I think it's gonna be really impactful with the with the whole community. So thank you again for being here.

SPEAKER_02: 44:49

Oh, well, thanks for having me, Shelby. It was um very enjoyable to speak to you and find out about your past as well. And I'm glad to hear another gal who believes in EMDR.

SPEAKER_00: 44:58

So yeah, for sure. Okay, I hope you have a fantastic day and that our paths cross again soon. Thank you. Have a good day, Shelby. Thank you. Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Confident Sober Women. If you enjoyed this conversation, hit the subscribe button above so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And hey, if you really loved it, leave me a review. You can learn more about the Sober Freedom Inner Circle membership at www.shaltejoncoaching.com forward slash inner circle. See you next time.