What 29 Years of Sobriety Teaches About Nervous System Healing

In this episode of Confident Sober Women, Shelby sits down with recovery advocate and mindfulness teacher Lane Kennedy for an honest conversation about long-term sobriety, nervous system regulation, and what it really takes to build a stable life after alcohol.

Lane shares her journey of 29 years in recovery and reflects on the unexpected lessons that come with staying sober across decades. From early recovery to parenting, global travel, career shifts, and the challenges of navigating stress in modern life, this conversation explores how recovery continues to evolve over time.

Shelby and Lane talk openly about the role of spirituality in long-term sobriety, the reality of nervous system dysregulation, and how stress can quietly shape our habits, relationships, and health. They also explore the subtle ways addiction patterns can resurface even years into recovery and why awareness, humility, and daily practices remain essential.

Together they discuss how sobriety is not just about removing alcohol, but about building a life that feels grounded, connected, and sustainable.

If you are navigating your own sobriety journey or working on emotional healing and nervous system regulation, this episode offers both perspective and encouragement from two women who have lived the process.

In this episode you will hear:

• What long-term sobriety actually looks like after decades
 • How nervous system regulation supports emotional healing
 • Why spirituality often becomes a foundation in recovery
 • The impact of stress, parenting, and life transitions on sobriety
 • How community and connection support women in recovery

This conversation is a reminder that recovery is not a one-time event. It is a lifelong process of growth, awareness, and learning how to live with clarity and confidence.

About the Host

Shelby John is a licensed therapist and founder of Wholistic Living. Through the Confident Sober Women podcast, she explores sobriety, emotional healing, nervous system health, and personal growth for women who are building lives rooted in clarity, confidence, and true freedom.

Connect with Shelby

Website
 https://shelbyjohn.com

Podcast
 Confident Sober Women

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Well, hey there, sober ladies. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women Podcast. And today I have a phenomenal conversation with my friend Lane Kennedy. She is a breath of fresh air when it comes to long-term recovery. She's also the owner and creator of Calm Living Docent, which is a stress management program. So she specializes in helping burned-out professionals and stressed-out parents learn how to stop stressing their DNA and create nervous system regulation. And that is exactly what we talked about today. We like shared a lot about our recovery stories and some brevity with that. And then also some more current things about nervous system regulation in our in our communities, in our world, and our in our parenting, and just how how that's really showing up for so many of us, and even at levels where we don't even know that's happening. So Lane really does have a lot to offer in this way, a lot of mindfulness-based stress reduction systems to help you learn how to regulate your nervous system in ways that are very easy and accessible to you all the way through things that are maybe more nuanced or more experienced or involved, but there's everything in between. So I just want you to grab your big glass of water or your favorite mocktail and join me for this conversation with Lane Kennedy. You are gonna love it. Welcome to Confident Sober Women. I'm your host, Shelby John, a licensed therapist and founder of Holistic Living. This is a space for women who are elevating their lives and choosing clarity over chaos, confidence over coping, and real freedom over short-term relief. And we all know that alcohol and drugs were never the glue that was keeping us together. They were just a temporary escape. Together we explore sobriety, mental health, nervous system healing, and personal development. We uncover the truth, heal beneath the surface, and build lives we don't want to escape from. Well, hey there, Lane. Thank you so much for being here today with me on the Confident Sober Women Podcast. I am so excited to have you. And the topic is, you know, obviously right in our wheelhouse and super relatable to all of us. So I'm gonna turn the mic over to you and let you share a little bit more about your story and then we're gonna chat.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Perfect. Thanks for having me, Shelby. It's always just so great to speak about recovery. Uh, I live in long-term recovery. I just celebrated uh 29 continuous years. And I don't say that as like, check me out. I say that as it's possible, you know. Um, and for me, it wasn't about um, I didn't come to this realization of like, oh my God, this is the end of my life. Um, I'm getting sober. I came to this place of I don't want to live like this anymore. Like I was really kind of broken at the end of my drinking. And so when recovery uh appeared on my radar, I was like, oh my God, there's another way to live. Like, there's another way, there's another way. This is how people do it. Like it kind of just floored me that there were other people who could go out and go to social events and go to dinner and not drink. Like that wasn't a part of my vocabulary. So that was a really great uh experience. And I got sober in the 90s. So that is a whole thing right there. And I got sober in Los Angeles, which is a whole thing right there. So there's very there's a lot of layers to my story, and it was a lot of fun. And that's what I wish for people is that you know, locking into a group of people or community of people, uh, and just going for the ride. Because once you're involved, like it's so good. Um, and I wasn't, you know, there's a lot of people that talk about um they put down the drink and then they they drank again. And that wasn't my experience. And I didn't know that I could just put down the drink and stay sober. Like I didn't know that that was possible. Like I just stayed sober every day. And not to say that relapse is not a part of life, but it's something that now that I really look at and I really think about how you know, like, how am I doing this every day? What has been the magic or the secret or um what is that solution that I come back to every day? And what I've learned over the past couple of decades is that it's really it's spiritual for me. And I I don't want that to sound woo-woo, but it is like I have such a deep practice now, and I rely on that practice to get me through really hard times. I've gone through life, you know, like when I put down the drink, my my life was a wreck. And uh I was told that I would never have a child. Um, I was kind of washed out, and now I have a 16-year-old that we were just talking about. Um, I never thought that I would get married. I'm married like for like for a long time. Like it's like these things, like I I'm employable. I like I just like what? You know? Um, so it's really, you know, again, I go back to that spiritual component of like that is the thing that has been consistent throughout my recovery. Everything else has changed. Everything my hair, my weight, um, you know, who I've slept with, uh, the friendships, everything, everything, the work that I do, everything has changed. But that spiritual component is the the thread that has kept me together in my recovery.

unknown 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for sharing all that. And oh I it's so refreshing uh being in spaces and taking opportunities to talk about, and and even if we're not talking deeply about like some kind of drunkologue or whatever, but just to remember, like go back, like you know, while you're talking about going back in my mind too as you're sharing, and I'm sure you are a little bit too. Like, we can't help it. We know where we came from, we know the things. Um, get where you are living like this completely transformed life. And I totally agree with you. Like, that is a very odd thing from where I sit to congratulations on your 29 years. That's incredible. And I agree with you. Like, I never share anything about my my sobriety or anything about my life, really, as like a toot my horn kind of thing. And in fact, it's almost the opposite. When people respond to me, I don't know if you ever like I share sometimes, like in you know, Facebook groups or wherever might be appropriate or whatever I share, if people ask and they'll be like, oh my gosh, you know, that's so incredible. You know, you're amazing. And I'm like, you know, I just I'm just like a girl who decided to get sober and change everything.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

That's my answer all the time because that is truly what I believe because the humility I think that comes with living a life as a sober person is so profound the more sober you get. You know, it is so true what they say in the rooms. You know, I don't I got sober with all we had back then. Um, and you know, I've done a lot of different things with modern recovery since then, and that's incredible options and we love that. And I'm so glad we have it all. You know, but the bottom line still is we don't take a drink or a drug today, and we're not people who can normally do that. Um, nobody should, um, but we just really can. And so, you know, you're so right. Uh, and I I couldn't agree with you more about the spiritual component to like whatever that looks like for you. Spirituality is a part of our lives. I don't care who you are or how much you think it isn't, it is. And it's not the same thing as religion. It can be, you know, it can be for you. And it can also just be very much a deeper connection with something outside yourself. And I work that into my in my clinical practice. It's a part of my psychosocial assessment. I ask everybody about where they are. We talk about why that's important. Um, because not because I think you should go to church or do it if you want. That's cool. I do. Um, but don't if you don't, that's cool too. But um because we all know that, and you and I have been around long enough in life and in sobriety to know that you just don't get very far or have any kind of internal peace of any kind if you can't create some kind of connection outside yourself. So I feel like we're very similarly aligned with all of that. And uh I'm really grateful that you're here to share even more about that work that you did, you know. And then it is continuous, right? I mean, I mean, you know, like you said, you've lived a long time. I I you, you know, I chuckled it to myself a little bit. I I was the person that I just never expected I'd live to be 30. You know, I just assumed I would be dead. You know, I tried to do that. I was a depressive drunk. I tried to do it um myself. I just assumed that I wouldn't make it to my 30th birthday. And then, you know, I just turned 50 last year and I have three kids or adult. I mean, it's just it is crazy, you know, how much of a transformation you can go through in a lifetime. You know, I've been married to the same person since I was 16, you know, like we weren't married as, you know, so like it's just it's wild. It is wild, and it does show that it works when you work it. I have the pleasure of working with a lot of people in recovery too in my room. And sometimes it's the most some of the most painful stuff I do, you know. Um, you know, the further removed I get from it, I never want to forget. But I I have a new client right now who just came to me recently and they're brand new, you know. Tried it a little bit last year, didn't stick. Um and gosh, last week I just felt so when I met her, I just felt like a visceral response, you know, like I could feel my own nervous system really just resonating with her pain, her pain, you know, and I just thought, girl, it's it can get so much better. Like this is this is all you have to do. And I know it sounds like so cliche, right? Like, oh, this is all you have to do. All you have to do is change everything. Um, but it does get better, you know. So I'm just curious to if you wanna are willing to share, kind of like in your journey, obviously 29 years is a long time. That's a long time to get removed. However, you know, parenting is another area where I almost felt like so. I've had a lot of probably like you, ups and downs in my own recovery, right? When I was four years sober, I had what I call my first sober bottom. You know, I was kind of like, I got sober and six months later I was pregnant. I had three kids in four years. So I don't recommend that. Yeah, I don't recommend doing it that way. It's a little backwards. So then by then I was like, oh crap, like there's a lot of stuff that needs to be done. But I was now parenting all these little people, and that was a really big priority, but I had to go back and kind of regroup. But at the end, that I was like at the end, you know, again, I was like feeling really yucky. And then that's happened a few other times throughout the course of those couple decades, right? You know, I've had those moments of like, wow, like we are just at the bottom, or times when I've felt like I was hurting myself because we can find other ways to do that, yeah. Um, that was addiction, very much addiction-like, um, but not substances. Um, for me, it's usually food. Um, then that looks really ugly and dysfunctional. So um raising teenagers was one of those times for us. We had COVID and teenagers, and it was really, really hard. And for four years we were in sustained trauma here. It really was. And I felt like I was drowning. I didn't even know it until I got out and I was like, wow, I can breathe. So there's all these periods of life that go through where we have sustained stress or anxiety that create nervous system dysregulation and almost take us back into what is our natural way, which is to want to numb out with drugs and alcohol.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

There's a couple of things that you said, Shelby, about the the sustained peace, right? Like that's something that I didn't know that I wanted. So I'm just gonna hold that for a minute and then go back in time because you talked about the bottoms. And there are, I think, very specific times in recovery that we hit. We hit these dark places, and nobody warns us about these dark places, they just arrive. And my first up people was around 9-11. And I just I had no idea what was going on. I didn't know what to do. I was four years sober and I was like, the the world is ending. And I the next thing I know, I was in Bangkok, you know, living in a little studio apartment, writing a book, and um really on a on a quest. Again, it's this spiritual thing, this hunger that I've had. And so that kind of bottom opened the door to a pathway of what I walk now, right? I like I found Buddhism and I started going down that path of mindfulness and meditation and understanding that um when I was living there, I worked with um women that were just coming off the street, and uh the political climate there was really wild. And I got to submerse myself into a culture and accept it, which I didn't know that that's what I was going for, but doing that pushed me through this really dark time in my sobriety because I had other things to focus on. I wasn't focused on myself and my like, oh my god, the world is ending, you know. Uh and I came back after that trip. I l I was out for about a year out in Southeast Asia for about a year and I came back and you know, I had such this um counter-culture, I just like culture shock. And I found myself in the middle of Colorado, uh, and you know, looking at the mountains and thinking, what am I doing with my life? And um I bought a bicycle and I started working at a diner and you know, serving coffee. It was like, what am I doing with my life? But this was such a time where it was this personal evolution, and that's what we do in sobriety. It's like we have to continue to find ourselves. And I think it's really fun. You know, at the time I'm like, oh my god, this is horrific. I'm like barely able to pay the rent and I'm serving eggs to people. What this is why I'm sober? Really? Yeah, like what? But what happened there is I met a really group, a great group of people, and that group of people showed me how to become a friend. They showed me how to um date, they showed me how to become somebody in a community, which I didn't really know how to do. And that got me to the next phase of my you know life, which landed me back in San Francisco and getting married, which I was like, what am I doing? I'm not supposed to be married. Wait a minute, I thought I was gay. Now I'm marrying a man. Wait a minute, what happened? Like again, my spiritual experience was just kind of unraveling. And it's these times in sobriety that I'm like, is this what I signed up for? But from a soul perspective, yes, a hundred percent. A hundred thousand percent. Uh you know, COVID, you mentioned COVID and how that was just that was that was a hard time for everybody on the planet, granted. And, you know, during that time you talk about the other addictions that start to come up. I I was absent for 15 years and I lost my abstinence. I started eating bags of potato chips and croissants, and you know, it was like bets off. I don't care. Like as long as I'm not drinking, I'm fine. But that you know, it's a mental illness, and it's this really dark, like wiring that occurs, and I put on like 30 pounds. It was not a good time. But you know, on the on the as I was unraveling through that, uh, I got closer to my husband, which was weird. You know, people were getting divorced right and left, and my husband and I were taking walks every day with the dogs. I was like, okay, we're winning here. Uh so you know, at the end of that uh time, I I kind of looked at myself in the mirror. I remember this like it was yesterday. I looked at myself in the mirror and I'm like, who are you? You know, I was like 20, what was that, 24 years sober? And I was like, what wait, this is not what I signed up for. And I remember, you know, praying, and I hadn't prayed in a long time. Because I think what happens is that we get going in our lives and then we just start living our life, or that's my experience. I just started living my life. And I just prayed. I said, you know, I just I need some help right now. And the next day I was introduced to somebody who um opened the door for the next part of my transformation. And you know, I started exercising again, I got back into being an athlete. Um, I really kind of took my my spiritual game and my my like just my physical body into a different place uh because it wasn't working. You know, the the croissants every day were not working. And and I'll reach for coffee. Um there's a we have a neighborhood coffee place here in San Francisco, sis San Francisco called Phil's Coffee, and they're right around the corner from my house. And they have an app and you can order the coffee and you can have it ready for you. And I was ordering like three of those a day. And then and then I realized I was like, okay, this is this is alcoholic. Like, you know, like this, I'm drinking too much. I mean, I'm like shaking, you know. And then I was and then, you know, I was like, okay, I'm gonna not do that anymore. And I self-willed it, that went away. And then I discovered matcha. And I was having six matas a day. And and then I started buying um gift cards to buy the matcha. And like then I was using a different account so my husband wouldn't understand. So so it's just like this is the illness, the mental illness that I suffer from if I'm not plugged into a resource that is much greater than myself. I just cannot manage my thinking around what seems really easy. Like just walk the dog. You don't have to get a matcha every day. You don't have to get three matches or six, you know. So I I like where this where the these things that we're talking about because it's this is long-term recovery. This is what we have to like look at. And recently uh last year I was put into the hospital because I was exercising too much. You know, like my body broke down, my nervous system just collapsed. And it's really looking at the the mental illness will go wherever it can to get your attention. And so now I'm definitely I'm like, okay, I I'm awake.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Hey, it's me, Shelby. Have you ever wondered what's really happening in your brain during recovery? Are you ready to take control of your anxiety, sleep better, and finally feel focused and confident? I want to introduce you to a game changer that's transforming women's recovery. Remote neurofeedback therapy. I want you to think of this as a personal trainer for your brain. It's helping you build new neuropathways right from the comfort of your own home. So if you're dealing with anxiety that just won't quit, if you have ADHD that's making life chaotic, or sleep issues that leave you exhausted, neurofeedback could be your missing piece. It's science-backed brain training that works with your natural healing process, helping you regulate emotions and build lasting confidence. The best part is you don't need to add another appointment to your busy schedule. My remote neurofeedback program brings professional guidance and support right to your living room. Do you want to learn more about neurofeedback therapy? You can go to my website, www.shelbyjohn.com to download my free guide. Is neurofeedback right for you? Together, we'll create the calm, confident future you that you deserve. That's www.shelbyjohn.com. Take the first step towards training your brain for lasting change. We're pumping the brakes here. It's fine. It's fine. I think what you said, I mean, we're making light of it, and brevity is it and humor are a huge part of my um coping skills. So uh, but it's a serious matter, and I don't want to we don't take it seriously, but I have to use humor or else I will just be crying. Very angry. Yeah, I'll either cry or just I don't know, crawl in a hole or something. Um, but my goodness, be careful with the community you do that in, because yesterday I got in trouble for making uh therapist communities. I don't know if you know, are not always the friendliest, which is very odd since we're supposed to be much talking. Anyway, and I, you know, I'm always wanted to like kind of challenge you know, thinking patterns and perspective, just bring difference to it. Like diversity of thought, I think is supposed to be really important, right? And diversity of thought includes all thoughts, not just yours.

unknown 21:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Um, and so a lot of my colleagues don't like that. And so um I got into I hadn't Nice, lovely chat with some people yesterday when this woman was very aggressive. And gosh, you know, I think what you're saying, the reason why you bring this up is because it maybe makes me chuckle because I feel like I'm I noticed so much. I feel now this could change in any minute. I mean, I realize in my life, and honestly, I say it all the time any of this can change in five minutes. You know, things are so amazing right now. My kids are good. My kid is a I mean, I feel like everything is going great, but literally in five seconds, that could all change. I'm very aware of that. And so I don't walk around pretending that like that's not true, but right now here I am. So, you know, I generally do feel pretty, pretty content, very peaceful. I have a lot of joy. I just, I just do. I'm very unbothered in my 50s. This is a beautiful thing. I'm just loving this. And I think it's contributed to um better relationships. It's definitely from you know, really good EMDR work, great um nervous system regulation, just um a lot of spiritual work. My spiritual program has elevated in the last like three to five years to levels that I just didn't know were possible. And so now I feel just deeply unbothered by most things, you know. And it's just a great way to be. And so we were having this chat, and this woman was just so aggressive, you know, and I'm just like, dang, you know, there's a way you can make your point, and like you don't have to come at me, like you don't have to like you don't have to like escalate. Yeah. And I'm like, whoa, you know, so like and I'm trying to like, and I felt like I was jumping, like after you know, reading these posts and stuff. And I'm like, dang. And so I was trying, I was actually like agreeing with her. I was like, hey, you're totally right, you know, this is whatever. And then she said something about me, and I was like, well, you know, I guess I just never thought about it that way. And then um, because we were having this dispute about over a word and the meaning of it and all this stuff. And so then that was good. We ended, I was like, oh, okay. And then I followed up with something funny because I was in the Aldi and there was a man in front of me, an elderly man, and then he dropped his sour cream on the floor. I kicked it, I was like, Oh, is this yours? He was already checked out. I handed it to the lady and was like, hey, put it in my stuff. I don't, you know, it's a dollar twenty nine. And the guy was like, Oh no, you can't. I'm like, dude, it's fine. Just take your sour cream. And to me, I was like, I said, Oh, I just had to fight a guy in the Aldi so I could pay for your sour cream. I wonder if that's activism, because that was the word. And I put a laugh, I said, I I I don't know, something like that. And I put a laughing emoji and she freaking came at, she was like, This is a serious matter. Um, I can't believe you just laughed at me. And I was like, Oh, oh, oh, honey, I was I was laughing at myself. I mean, I guess I mean I'm thinking, my God, if you're that balled up, if you're that tense and angry at just so many things, your nervous system was so dysregulated that you can't even possibly see that somebody was being funny. And I explained, she's like, Oh, well, thanks for the clarification. I I'm like, that it's just not something that should need to be explained. But okay. So I I just think people are walking around like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

But do you think that people are just so self-centered? So self-centered. So self-centered.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

So self-centered, and they say we're self-centered. You know, we are. Self-centeredness and selfishness is the root of our problems, and I believe that for sure. And that can rear its head, you know. I don't care how sober you are, you have to always be in check of that. But having a stance of humility does kind of combat that. That is the medicine, I think, for understanding like I'm not better than you or you or whatever, like you believe this, cool, cool. I believe this, great, we can chat. Like, I think humility is helps with that. And also just being unbothered. Like, if you want to run your, you know, parent your is your child a daughter, a girl or a boy, I forgot, a daughter. Boy, boy. If you want to parent your son, who's almost the same age as mine, and you want to let him hang out with girls in the basement, and like you don't go down and check on them and keep your lights on or whatever. There's no rules, which you know, in my house, we have some rules, and um, that's fine. You get to do that. You get to, you know, and I'm like, oh, cool. If it now, if it was my daughter in your basement, I might say, Hey, you know, what are you guys up to over there? Well, how do you provide supervision?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Um, yeah, that's not happening.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

But um, I don't get to control what you do in your house. I've been in that. I have two daughters and a son, and I've been on that situation when the mother has said, Oh, we don't really, we don't really um check on them. We had that last year. Oh, we don't, we just let them, they know our rules. And I I said, Well, you know, he's like a 17-year-old boy, right? Have you looked at him? He's six three, he's 200 pounds. I mean, like, he's have you seen him? Yeah, pretty sure. I'm just guessing. He's still a boy. Anyway, I think some people are just checked out, but they're checked, but they just, and I'm not saying, and I my point only was is you get to do that. Yeah, that's fine. And I get to do this, and as long as it's not hurting my people or my my home or something, like it really isn't that big of a deal, but everybody makes everything a big deal, you know, and then we pile on other things, some things are out of our control, right? Air, water, you know, clean, clean air, clean water, food, processed food, things like that that, you know, we're consuming a lot of things that are hurting us, you know. So then that layers on nervous system dysregulation, right? Which you didn't even know was happening, you know. And then you add on stress and anything else. Not to mention the stored trauma, you know, and that's where we really get that's where we really get hit hard, you know. I don't know if you've ever experienced that, like with your doll with your son, you know, kind of raising kids, you know, a lot of that stuff will rear its ugly head at certain ages, you know, or stages. It'll show up whenever you were, you know, kind of had a hard time or something big went on in your life. I I know it happened to me.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

So yeah, I I'm just thinking about how different people parent and how uh I try to stay really neutral. Like, okay, yeah, let him drive the car, go for it. Just let him. I yeah, yeah, let him get a ticket. Like I have a friend that who's just you know, he's gonna her son's gonna do what he wants to do. And when he was 14, he would ride motorbikes, uh, you know, down across the city without a helmet. I'm like, what? How is that possible? But it's not my business. And I still love her and support her and I love her kid. And it's just like if I want to be in the world and navigate relationships, I need to be mindful of my own judgments because I have them and they can come out. And I think that's a gift of sobriety is being able to remain neutral when things don't feel good.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

You know, like when I agree with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah, when when I have a really strong opinion, I can say my opinion and I can be heard and then I can just stay there. I don't have to make my point. I don't have to prove anything because my point is my point. And I I think that is again, it's a that is a gift of long-term recovery. I didn't have that before. I didn't have that when I was five or ten years sober. That is something into my twenties and now into the into the three day like I can't even believe I'm gonna be 30 years sober. That's like crazy time.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

That must be what's happening to me too, because I definitely feel I can totally relate to that with the five and ten. Yeah. Frankly, I was parenting all those kids and I was still not very unwell, even though I was doing a lot of really good work. I was heavily involved, you know, in the program and recovery work and therapy, and I was definitely doing the thing. So I was a way better, but still, like I celebrated my 10-year anniversary and I stood at the podium and was like, I'm pissed off that I'm still having to do this. Like, why do I still have to do this? And it's still this way. Like, I was angry. I said that, you know, and that was 10 years in. I think back on that all the time and think, like, damn, that's kind of sad.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I think that that is something that comes up. I think anger is one of these things that we just push down, push down, push down, and then around 10 to 15, it explodes on us. Well, that's what it did for me at least.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

That's that was my story. No one ever told me that, but I'm glad, thank you for validating that. And now I feel that it's settled down. I continue to be completely unbothered, but but what you just said is so important and I think just so would do everybody so much good if they could get some of that. I actually had a client session a little bit ago with a woman who um we were working on exactly that. And um, she is very upset about you know the way her um daughter-in-law views her and is like thinks, you know, she's like a people pleaser and all these things and different things, you know. And and you know, we've talked a lot about it. And I said to her, uh, she's allowed to think um whatever she wants about you, you know, and it's really none of your business. And so that's a hard thing to say out loud sometimes to people. Sometimes I feel like that's really when I say because it's very often. Um, but what other people think about you is none of your business. I learned that in AA, and I'm thankful for that because it's so true. We're all judging all the time, no matter if we want to or not. We're just whether they're positive or negative, we're doing it, you know? And it's not a bad thing necessarily. Where it comes up becomes a problem, I think, is exactly what you said. What my problem with people is, is I don't think it's anyone's job, mine or anyone else's, to convince someone of something. You know, like it's not my job to convince you that you need to believe this or that you should parent your kid this way. That's not that's not my job. Like, and so people think that is their job. And I've been on the receiving end of that in friendships, and it's very, very strange. Um, I watched it unfold during COVID with one of mine, and I was like, this is really happening. Like, oh, okay. I I was shocked, kind of like, why do you think why do you think you can get like she was like really digging in some stuff, you know, like she was trying, she was bribing me, she was like diving me thing, and I was like, girl, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not doing it. Like, I already made my decision, I feel this way, I'm not doing it, and I don't care that you do. I don't care. You clearly do, and so I I I'm just not, but it's not our job to convince people of other things. No, I don't know why people think that it is. It's so is that the self-centeredness? Is that the self-centeredness?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

I think it is the self-centeredness. I think that it is. One of the things that I teach in my in my class is this is a it's this mindfulness, it's a it's a state of neutralness, neutral, being neutral, you know, like how can you show up in your relationship? How can you show up in your marriage? How can you show up with your son or your daughter? Um, I had a a client, she's an attorney right now, and she's in sitting in my class and she has a colleague and she's always and I I challenged her, I challenged the whole class to engage with neutrality throughout every moment, you know, and she she's like, but how? How do I do that? You know, and I said, look at the person in their eyes and count backwards from 10. Forget what they're talking about. Just that's your starting point. Just count backwards from 10. Because there's always that engagement, there's always that like they're you know, creating the story in your head, right? You're already trying to answer them before they're telling what they need. And it's like just be present with somebody. And when you're present with somebody, right, you can hear them, you can start to feel them in a different way, you know. And so she came back, she came back and she's like, okay, I didn't think it was gonna work. And I'm like, Yeah, what happened? She goes, I had no opinion. I was like, that was a win. Like that was such a win, you know? And then it's like in sobriety, in everyday life, in relationships, we have to have these small wins, you know? And if we're walking around with this chip on our shoulder, or I'm gonna prove something to someone, or it's all about me, we're never gonna win. We're just never gonna win.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

So I love that strategy. I think that's really helpful. It's sort of like, remember in the old days, we're probably similar age when they would talk about that, like before you spank your kid, or you shake them, or you, you know, you count, you know. I don't know about you, but I had that moment in the bathroom with one of mine. I think it was the son, my son, when it was something maybe it was probably my oldest daughter because she was very challenging. And I remember sitting there looking at her and like, I'm like, this is this is the moment. This is the moment, this is when people hurt their kids right here. I'm looking at it right this minute, is when people take them and shake them or slam them against the wall. Like I felt it, you know, I didn't do that. Like I could feel like I would want to, you know, if I didn't have the resources. And so those things are helpful to be like, oh gosh, that's a real thing. And it gives you a little bit of insight into maybe you're not experiencing what someone else is experiencing, you're not in their life, but you can have a little tiny window into what it's like to live like that, right? It's like kind of my like AA or 12 step works or whatever community you're in that comes together regularly and share stories, because then you're in a space where you're hearing regular, uh, real life stories, and then you're like, oh my gosh, I I feel like I can feel like that. I feel like that, you know, and it makes it starts to destigmatize those feelings that we want to make bad. And I think that self-centeredness does grab a hold of people and they're nervous at the nervous system level. It's living in there. It is personally, I believe it's from past trauma. That's just my that's my bent. That's what I believe everything comes from. We're not born like that. It's just it comes from stuff happening, and trauma is very relative. It's not always the capital T stuff, it's always the live life stuff, you know, and it gets stored in there. And then sometimes people just grab onto that and they think, like, if I I think I wonder if they think if I don't speak up in this, if I don't share my opinion or fight back or defend myself, then that means what? It means something. I'm weak, I'm worthless. I'm not valuable, I'm not heard, people won't like me. I mean, and so then it's that those are deep core beliefs. They get way down, way, way, you know, and so that's why we do this kind of work. But when you don't do that kind of work and you're left, like I can always tell, and I'm not, it's not my job to like let anybody know necessarily unless they come here and ask for help. But like you can kind of see, like when you're engaging with people in the world, like the woman I just referenced yesterday. I'm like, damn, you need some EMDR. Like you are got a lot of stored trauma in there. I don't know what it's from, and it's not your fault, but it is in there. And now it's time for you to do some work because you don't, because also life just doesn't have to be like that. It's so beautiful at this point. Like, I feel sound like you, kind of like just cool, magical. Like I feel like so relatively happy and and joyful. Um, so I think that nervous system storage is where we're learning so much more about, you know, the brain research that we're having over the last 10 years is giving us so much information. But we have to do something about it, you know. When those things come up, I don't know. I was taught early on too, maybe see what you think about this. Like, um, when things come up, and you know, I I strongly believe that, you know, when we are disturbed, there's something wrong with us, you know. I firmly believe that. I still believe it. I think other people have a hard time with that. Yeah, it's true. It's an indicator. It doesn't mean something's your fault or you should do something else. It just is an indicator that there's something going on with you that's unresolved. So when that happens and you and you're standing in front of your husband and you want to or your kid and you want to lash out, or you know, when you can stop and give yourself like five seconds or let your breath, Jefferson. Um, what is that wonderful guy who I love following now on Instagram? Jefferson Fisher, it's fabulous. He is, I thought he was a therapist. I was watching all of his reels, I loved him. I'm like, he's a litigation attorney, specializing in communication. It's fabulous. He says, let your breath be your first word. Yeah I was like, so if you let your breath be your first word and you ask yourself, what is going on right now? Why what's happening? What about this situation is bothering me? If you do that honestly, you're gonna get some information back that you might not really want to deal with, but it's gonna be true, you know. It usually has to do with fear, fear of not getting something we want or losing something we have. And then you dig down on that. Well, what am I afraid of? I'm afraid I'm gonna lose my financial security. What would that mean about me? Um, you know, I'm a bad mom or I'm not good enough. You know, whatever it is. But if you start asking yourself good questions like that in those moments of disturbance, you're gonna get information.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

I know, but that's that's where people are afraid to do that. Yeah, they won't do it.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

They won't do it, and that's where the that's where the growth has to occur. That's your edge. And it's you, I don't think this is the work that you do alone. I think this is where you go into a group program or you get a therapist, or you like you know, nervous system, you know, from that angle, looking at the nervous system, it's like we come out and we're these perfect little beings, these little babies, and we crawl and we use our little voice and we use our little arms, and right? This is all normal. And then, you know, suddenly we are placed into a diaper, and then we are told that we can't, you know, go to the bathroom on the floor, or we miss the potty, and then we're scolded, and then we're all of a sudden we're start this is our first contraction is when we're said, no, you're not supposed to go to the bathroom there, or no, you can't have that, or you're supposed to go to sleep now, right? We're our our body is then in a contracted state, which is the first nervous system point of dysregulation. So and it actually happens before in utero, but I don't I don't need to go into that so much. This this idea around carrying that up until you know your 20s and your 30s into your forties, you know, and you're in your 30s and you're not going to the bathroom at work. You're sitting at your desk and you're telling your nervous system, I can't go to the bathroom right now, which completely shuts you down, right? So that's just one example I want to share with listeners of how we shut ourselves down. And so, or we won't drink water, right? We're just like no water all day. We're completely dehydrated. So these two examples I see all the time with my students and how their nervous system is shot. And now we live in this time. I mean, shall we? We live in a crazy world right now, right? Like we just do. And so it's like I ask my students, I say how how many on a scale from one to five. You know, five is like, I am super stressed out. One is like I'm chill. Where do you sit? And they're like, three. And I'm like, no, you're actually at an eight. Like we are living in a world where people have two screens, three screens, two cell phones. Um, right, we're constantly being bombarded, and all of that completely unregulates our nervous system. And so for people in recovery, it's like we're super sensitive. So we're not at an eight, we're at a 10.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

So what do we do at a 10 every day? Like, how are people, you know, regulating their nervous system? And if they don't know anything about nervous regulation, I mean they have you for sure to check out and listen to. But go down that like rabbit hole of like how to support your nervous system because we are again with the AI, like we just keep increasing this technology use, which is shutting our nervous system down and putting us into a state that is dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

And frankly, sorry, Shelby.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Oh no, this is your this is the you show. And also, like, I love those examples because those are things that are definitely how obviously for you, and you're just one person in the whole world of people providing services, are seeing that a lot in your practice. So that tells me that there's a lot of people who are experiencing that very thing. And it seems like it kind of almost you can almost make the case that that's like normal. I can see how somebody would be like, oh, it's just normal. Like those baths in those bathrooms at our school, they're like they're gross. Like we're not, you know, they can definitely talk themselves into that and then be supported probably by a world that's like, yeah, I totally understand that. But yet here you are saying this is like a literal function of the early stages of trauma development. And again, trauma is not, we're not always talking about like some severe abuse or neglect or any of that. It's just normal stuff. It's just how your brain internalized it. It's how your brain heard those words that actually could have been in with good intentions from a parent, with like, but that they you heard it and you were like, oh, I'm not good enough. Oh, okay. And now I'm gonna run with that, and I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough. And now you have a raging addiction and you know, all the other things. So it's it's so it's like such a simple thing. It's not the science, is some of it is though. And there's simple practices, just like you mentioned, the the counting down, um, you know, letting our first word be the breath, all the way up to complex practices, um, like with in-office nerve feedback and you know, all kinds of other stuff, like and then a ton of stuff in between, you know. So I think that people hear these things or they hear or see something online and it sounds very, it sounds woo-woo, or it sounds like, oh, I'm not gonna do that, or whatever. But it can be downgraded to like the very simplistic. Like, how do we just de escalate our mind and body just for a moment, you know?

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Um I always tell people to get outside.

unknown 43:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Like just put your phone down and go outside. Look at a tree. Look at something green immediately and then look up at the sky, the contrast, and then come back and orient, right? Because having our eyes go up and down and orient like that can just shift the neurochemistry of your brain. And people are like, that's it? Really? I'm like, try it. And then they'll come back and like that work. I'm like, yes, it did.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

That's why I told you to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we need to complicate it. I think we do need to keep things. I'm in the bit the brand of definitely keeping things simple. And then as we grow and learn, we sometimes we do want to complicate things. We want to or we want to add in layers of depth, right? Maybe you want to, you know, start take doing Reiki or take yoga or something else, you know, fine. But we can start very simple with just um with our breath. It's always with us. We have access to that at all times. We can utilize being outside. I don't care. It's like it's been in the teens and single digits here all week last week. We're on a warm front 35 today. Um, but put your coat on, you know, and go outside. Yeah, put your coat on. Watch your dog run around in the woods, you know. Um, look at the trees. Yeah. Just pay attention. Feed yourself properly, you know. Drink water, just feed yourself properly.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Um, yeah, I know, pick it up.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Um, yeah, I I mean, I don't think we're ever gonna get away from the screens and stuff too in technology. I mean, there's too much good about it, too. But so that means we have to take force breaks, you know. We have to intentionally the adult in us, we have to be adults and say, Oh, actually, I don't pick up my phone after this time, or I take 30-minute breaks, or whatever you do. But people, I think, sit seem to think that like all of that, and I guess it's just human nature. We want it easy, we want it to be done for us. Um, but we brain is lazy. As an adult, you have to do the stuff for yourself.

unknown 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Now people can help us, but you know, in the end, you got yourself in the hospital because you overexercised, you know, like nobody told you you had to do that. Um, you did that all on your own, right? So you can now not do that, you know. You can now say, you know what, I'm gonna I'm gonna exercise properly.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

You know, well, now I haven't been able to work in 10 months.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yeah. It's been a real shutdown. It's been a real like rearrangement of my life.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

I always say that our brains are so powerful, they will find a way. Yes. You shut us down, right? It'll make us sick, it'll make you sick, it'll get you hurt.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Um, something will happen. If your brain is saying we need or you get an autoimmune disease or something, that's not by accident. You know, it's like, oh, you need to rest.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

And so it was what we're doing. Yeah. Um, that's how powerful our brains are. Um, it's not by accident. Um, so I like I said to my son a couple uh maybe a year or so ago, he's real quiet, super quiet, doesn't talk at all hardly. And it's really tough, you know, because you're like, because A, I want him to talk to me. And B, I do worry about him a lot, you know, because I just never really he's an inside processor with anxiety. And I said to him one time, because there was definitely something going on, I think it was probably after some game lacrosse or something, and um I said, you know, you can talk to me or not, that's fine. Um, but you your body will find a way to get that out, and you might not like it. So I suggest maybe just like maybe just get it out the way you want it to come out, or else it could end up someplace you're not really happy about.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

So um what kind of um when you when you want people to reach out to you um to learn more, where do you like them to go? How do you like them to find out about you?

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Everything is on my website at lainkennedy.com. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Wonderful. I'll make sure I link that in the show notes below and connect people to you and your work because your stress management work is extremely powerful. And this is a conversation that I think we should be having way more regularly in the world. Yes. Just getting it normalized, getting it normalized that we take breaks, you know, that normalized that we go outside.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

It's normal to come to a class about stress management.

unknown 48:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

It's normal. I have students that come for years now because it's a commitment to their sanity, which I applaud them. You know, it's just like, yes, you're taking care. It's a self, it's an act of self-care. You know, it's like admitting, like, wow, I have stress in my life.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

And how do I manage this? Well, this is how you do it. It's cool.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Well, thank you so much for your time and this conversation. It's been amazing. I definitely can see us needing to have a follow-up because there's so much more to say. So thank you again. I'll make sure I link everybody in the show notes and hope you have a fantastic day. This is Shelby John, and thank you for joining me on the Confidence Sober Women podcast, where we have conversations with women building lives rooted in clarity, resilience, and freedom. If today's episode resonated with you, be sure to hit subscribe. And if you would, take a few seconds to leave a review and then share it with a woman you know who really needs to hear it. If you're ready for deeper support through therapy, EMDR intensives, or remote neurofeedback at Holistic Living, you can visit our website at holisticlivingtherapy.com, where we help people rewire their brains for lasting freedom from anxiety, addiction, and trauma. Until next time, uncover the truth, heal beyond the surface, and transform your life. See you next week.