Beyond Sobriety: Colette Baron-Reid on Healing, Humility, and Long-Term Recovery

In this episode of Confident Sober Women, Shelby sits down with Colette Baron-Reid for an honest conversation about what long-term sobriety really looks like in real life.

With more than 40 years of sobriety, Colette shares her experience with addiction, recovery, and the deeper emotional work that followed. This conversation moves beyond quitting alcohol and focuses on what it takes to stay well over time. They talk about trauma, identity, and the ongoing commitment to growth that comes with living in recovery.

Shelby and Colette also explore the realities of 12-step recovery, the role of humility, and how patterns shaped by the nervous system and past experiences can continue to show up even after getting sober. Colette speaks openly about her healing journey, including her experience with EMDR, and how her understanding of recovery has evolved over the years.

This episode will resonate with women in recovery who are asking what comes next after sobriety and how to build a life that feels steady, clear, and grounded.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• The difference between early sobriety and long-term recovery
• Emotional healing and trauma recovery after addiction
• Nervous system regulation and mental health in sobriety
• The role of community, structure, and humility
• Letting go of identity patterns that no longer serve you

Colette Baron-Reid is an internationally respected author, artist, educator, and spiritual intuitive. She is the co-author of The Art of Manifesting: A Meditative Drawing Practice to Rewire Your Brain and Create Your Reality and has been in recovery for over four decades.

Connect with Colette:

Website: https://www.colettebaronreid.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ColetteBaronReid/featured
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/colettebaronreid
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/colettebaron_reid/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colettebaronreid/

About the Host:

Shelby John is a licensed therapist and founder of Wholistic Living. Through the Confident Sober Women podcast, she explores sobriety, emotional healing, nervous system regulation, and personal growth for women who are building lives rooted in clarity, confidence, and real freedom.

Website: https://shelbyjohn.com

Support the show

If this episode resonated with you, consider subscribing, rating, or sharing it with someone who may need it. This could be a sober woman, someone in a sobriety journey, or anyone navigating mental health challenges, anxiety, or emotional healing.

Shelby also offers remote neurofeedback therapy and EMDR sessions as part of her work in trauma recovery and nervous system regulation. You can learn more on her website.

Her memoir, Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety, is also available wherever books are sold.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well, hey there, sober ladies. Thank you so much for being here with me today and for participating in this conversation with my friend Colette Baron Reed. She is an internationally respected author. She's an artist, an educator, and a spiritual intuitive. And she has been sober for a really long time. She and I have a conversation that's very much rooted in recovery, in 12-step, in what it's like to be in long-term recovery, and also about her own journey through trauma and EMDR work and kind of how she got there. It was really interesting, kind of hearing some of her backstory with immigrant parents and some of the challenges, challenges that she went through. And then the kind of late-stage revelations of more work that needed to be done. I really loved her uh bravery in her conversation, her courage and openness. I think you're going to love it as well. Feel free to check out her book, The Art of Manifesting. And you can also connect with her on her website, ColetteBarenreed.com, which of course will be linked in the show notes below. So grab your big glass of water or your favorite mocktail and join me for this conversation with Colette Baron Reed. Welcome to Confident Sober Women. I'm your host, Shelby John, a licensed therapist and founder of holistic living. This is a space for women who are elevating their lives and choosing clarity over chaos, confidence over coping, and real freedom over short-term relief. And we all know that alcohol and drugs were never the glue that was keeping us together. They were just a temporary escape. Together, we explore sobriety, mental health, nervous system healing, and personal development. We uncover the truth, heal beneath the surface, and build lives we don't want to escape from. Well, hey there, Colette. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women Podcast. And I'm so excited that you're here and to share you with our audience and talk about some incredible opportunities for nervous system regulation and manifesting and so many good things. So I'm going to turn the mic over to you, let you share a little bit more about your story, and then we're going to chat.

First Drink And Early Warning Signs

Trauma, Shame, And The Bottom

Service And Growing Up In Recovery

Ego, Fame, And Returning To Meetings

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Sure. So why am I here on a podcast about a confident, sober woman? So I can tell you that 40 years ago is when I got clean and sober January 2nd, 1986. So I've had 40 years to learn what all of that actually means and to evolve into the person I am today. But I think I just want to give you a bit of a qualifying. So my relationship with alcohol, because we're talking about sobriety, uh alcohol, and drugs. So when I was 12, my parents were Europeans and we had alcohol in the house, it was normal. And I had my very first drink called Schlevovits, which was a plum brandy because my dad was Serbian and it came from Yugoslavia, which isn't called that anymore. But anyway, and uh I felt like a whole person for the first time in my tiny little life. Like to me, it was like, what is this magic? Right. Whereas my friend would be spitting it out, going, ew, what is that? Right. I'd be like, oh, we want some more of that. So immediately I wanted another one. Immediately I felt different. Um, immediately that opened the biggest can of worms. But I just want to say this that we we talk about, I mean, I've been sober a really long time. And um, I'm like old school sobriety where we didn't have internet, you know what I mean? We would go to meetings in person and we smoke in them and you know, like that kind of thing. We had phone calls and um, but uh not not much has changed other than the fact that our attention has been hijacked and our nervous systems have been hijacked in our modern world. So staying sober today, and when I talk about sobriety, is is different than staying sober back then because your attention is split in so many directions right now. And so I really acknowledge it for people who are not so long in the tooth like I am. You know, I'm not I'm an old timer now, but it's it is not easy. And and this is something you have to commit to. So um, and you have to hit bottom too, and you have to admit it. So I uh I went on my merry way with alcohol and drugs, and I went to a private school. So my I can't blame my parents. My even though alcoholism and addiction of all kinds is in my dad's background, not so much my mom's, but she was a Holocaust survivor, so she had all this other stuff. So I was raised a believing I wasn't safe, right? Because which was I think that was environmental, but I just know I had the allergy. You know, I was alcoholic before I had the alcohol. So, and it was because I think when I looking back at my childhood, I did not know where I ended and anybody else began. So the idea of the fact that I never felt solid in me, and I didn't feel sewn together at all. And so alcohol was medicine for me. And when I drank, I felt like I belonged. I felt like I was smart, I felt like, right, it's just the way it was for me. Now I got into trouble very early with it. Um, but I think I just had all the mental health issues and the trouble before, and it mixed it together. So I'm gonna say I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg, and it doesn't matter. But I came into the program with a multitude of things that needed outside help, as well as the 12 steps. So I'm assuming that I can talk about 12 steps here because I know sobriety comes to people in lots of different ways. I'm a hardcore 12-stepper and still am, and I still go to the meetings and I at 7:30 in the morning every day, right? So um, but anyhow, so what happened to me was that I other than my inhibitions going away, I had a lot of, you know, my dad was 50 when I was born, and it was a culture that was very chauvinistic and not his fault. He was a terrific guy, terrific man, he was a fascinating person, and my mom was very much, you know, our together with me. And like so he went to work, came home, and ate dinner, and then he would sit in his chair and we have to sit there and listen to him, that kind of thing. But um, I was rebellious, and I don't know if it was the alcoholism, or maybe it was. I just know that from the earliest age, I was just a rebel. If you're gonna say something was black, I'm gonna say it was white. And I mean, I wanted to smoke outside the schoolyard. I was nine, you know what I mean? I was I was trouble waiting to happen, and I got into um drinking with my friends. It was funny too, because my parents were like, Oh, you have to hang around with good kids from these good private schools. And we were the worst ones, you know, stealing our parents' Mercedes and you know, taking bottles of lemon gin, oh, gross, disgusting, and getting so drunk and puking all over the cars like that, like, oh, they're good kids from good homes, right? Because my mom thought we would catch poverty or something if we um because they came to Canada with nothing and built up a life that of privilege for us, right? Anyway, so um quickly I uh I was just a mess. Uh, got into university, was very smart. My parents just decided I would be a lawyer and I went along with it. But all I ever wanted to be was a singer-songwriter. And uh law school, I took an overdose before the day before exams. So law school did ended for me. And then and then I went through a series of ways in which maybe this would work, maybe this would make me better, maybe that, and I never thought it was the alcohol or the drugs. It was I it was because my life was like this, because my parents were like this, because my story was this. I you if I you had that, you'd drink too. But the truth was I was an addict and I was an alcoholic, and I could not stop and I couldn't see it, and the denial was so strong in me. Um, I I don't know how open we can be on your show. You can, but I'm gonna be anyway. So um when I went to university, um, I had to make up, I wanted to make up the year, so I went to another university. And bottom line is um I hooked up with the wrong people. I worked at a bar and I ended up getting um beat up and then gang raped. And and then after that, I didn't tell my parents until I ended up with a severe, again, drinking, drugging. It was all the drugs and the drinking. I would never have gone had I not been drunk. And I had never, I would never have been attracted to people like this. So I was very attracted to dark elements, right? You know, like give me the criminals and whatever I'll show my parents, right? I worked at a strip club, like, oh my god, my my parents would die. But that's what I did, right? I did all the things anyway. Um, I went to a treatment center in 1980, didn't stay sober, um, did not surrender, didn't understand the surrender, just wanted to talk about how do I get out of this. And of course, I took Bailey's. I thought milk would help. I oh, I'm not an alcoholic. I I haven't had a drink in nine months. I think I'll have some milk in my drink. And then five years later, I had a severe cocaine habit. Um, in the A, this was in the 80s, right? When it was we were told it wasn't addictive. But I was out there partying and I was with somebody who was a producer and also a sex addict. And, you know, was I got into the music and all whatever, and then I just hit bottom. I couldn't do it anymore. So um that was so I always say that I took the express train into the program because I took that drug and I got into trouble with that drug. And I'm grateful because I was 20 uh 1986, January 2nd, 1986 is my dry date. Um, and so what was I 27, 28? Uh yeah, 1958. Yeah, something like that. Right at my sadden return, if you know anything about astrology. Um, so what happened after that is really what's most important because it wasn't just about I went to another treatment center for women and I was able to talk about some things in there. We were women, there were 35 women, it was a brand new, it was a gene tweet treatment center. It was first, I was the first client in the door. And I remember going there and saying, Oh, AA doesn't work. Uh because I I had gone before, I was like, forget that. So I'm not going to go to AA, but I I need to deep deep, I need to sleep. So I will come and they're like, you need to be an inpatient, right? They had an outpatient program initiation, and it was all 12 steps. It was all AA. Thank God. They just went, uh-huh, uh-huh. Great. You just come on in, come on in, right? Oh, it saved my life. Um, so we went to meetings and uh we did the first four steps in that 28-day program. And of course, I went back and did them again from scratch. But it what it did also would have enabled me to recognize that I wasn't junk and that I had an up that all the shame, because I was so riddled with shame, I became a different person. Obviously, that shadow self, the self-hatred, like the it, because I continued to attract um men who were violent, a sexual violence in my 20s after that had happened. I just repeated those things. And and like it's like trying you know, doing the same thing over and over again, hoping for a different result that maybe that would fix it. And of course, it just got worse. So, I mean, I'm not even gonna go into it. It was so disgusting. And I really could see today looking back my part in those things, but all I could feel was shame and that I was a mistake and that I should die, right? But there was a part of me didn't want to die. So thank God. Um, you know, I hit my bottom in a drug dealer's basement. I had drank and smoked coke and you know, whatever, and about over a week, and and I just saw myself truthfully in the mirror for the first time and I said, help me. And so help came, but help came to start, right? So you start by stopping, right? And and I lost the compulsion to use and drink. It was lifted from me after that walking at that morning when I left. I never had the compulsion to pick up a drink or a drug ever again. So the work starts here then. So sobriety became my life. So basically, I grew up in in recovery, right? So I'm gonna be 68 this summer. And my whole life has been about that. Like what and and what is recovery? So for me, recovery is the evolution of the self, right? That it's continuous peeling of the onion skins. You know, it's about being as honest as I can at any given time because sometimes I could not have self-honesty. You know, I was 60 years old when I finally looked at all the sexual violence. I was 60 when I did all this EMDR treatment because I realized that there's something in me that's that's something, something there. And thank God I have a normal husband, normal marriage, and with a normal, like he doesn't drink or whatever. He used to party, but we were both in the music business, so he was in a band. So he's he was a pretty cool hip guy. But like in terms of you know, we had a great sex life, everything was great, but I knew that there was something in me that that needed healing, and it and I and I it took that long. So, right, that's like eight years ago, right? So I was 32 years sober before I could actually deal with some of the stuff that happened in the when I was molested when I was a baby, like all kinds of stuff. But I I found that I could create a life and it was service that did it. Like I went in there. Oh my god, my first sponsor, she was like Aunt Clara from Bewitched. She would like repeat herself, she was like this daughty old lady who'd like, you know, you'd see her. I don't know if you ever saw that show, but maybe you're too young. But she was a great character and she was just the most loving person. And my mom was not that way, she was very uh critical, but she was also just scared for me all the time. I understood. I under I understand her so well today, and I know how much she loved me, but it was impossible. I was an impossible child, and my parents could never have done anything at all. So I needed somebody to just love me, and she just called me her exotic bird. Because at the time, if you can see this, I was wearing, I was walking around with studded brasiers on and big thigh boots with big spiky heels, leather leg warmers with like, you know, I like seriously, and I look like Elvira, like had those spiky hair with the long, I looked outrageous. And that's how I marched into the AA meeting. And they were like, whoa, we got a live one here. And I remember when I was when this guy was five years sober and he talked from the stage. We were in this in my group, and he said, I just want to shout out to Colette because I was gonna kill myself the day I walked into a meeting and I saw this wild looking woman at the door going, Well, she can be sober, I can. Like, because he was the people I freed people out, but I they did not say anything. They did not say anything, you know. I was just this wild goth maniac, right? And but I was I took to it like a duck to water, like a you know how they say that you you hold on to it like a life preserver. So I did things. I cleaned up, I went and I put out the ashtrays, I put out the chairs, I made the shitty coffee. You know, I'd go get the the the bad birthday cakes that we would get from that, right? Well, made out of lard and sugar and whatever, and I'd get size and kite on that because I'm also a sugar addict, right? But whatever, one thing at a time. So um, and I became a different person. And it and my life, it's like so interesting because I it took me a while. It was organic, it wasn't, I just did the same things. I went to meetings, I called my sponsor, I sponsored people, I did the steps, I I had therapy, you know, I did what it took, what, but I I couldn't do it all at once, right? So I had an eating disorder that took its roots in me once I got sober, and other though, I had to deal with that. Then my parents got died back to back when I was 31 and 32 or something. And then that happened. So there was like I wasn't sober a long time, and all of the and I had to deal with all these things, and and I remember also, I'm gonna say this I had not a pot to piss it. Okay, like my parents were poor as church mice, uh, you know, when they both died and stuff, and I had gone off on my own, and I was making a living as an artist uh for a period of time, painting on people's clothes um and stuff, and doing some, you know, telemarketing. And I'm not really sure how clean that was, but it was clean enough. It was for the Liber Foundation. I don't know if they got all the money, but whatever. It felt right to felt okay to me. But um, and I remember thinking I was the wealthiest person on the planet because I didn't I didn't wake up in anxiety, I didn't wake up hating myself, you know, even though I still smoked cigarettes, which I quit to when I was 35. But it was like I had value in my life that I never could say before, even though I didn't have any anything materially at all. Um, like at all. I was living hand to mouth and I was so happy, you know, and and and I wasn't haunt so haunted by my past. That came later in an interesting way, because you know, as you get successful, life gets more complicated. You know, the the whole cash and prizes and who am I and the ego, because the whole idea of of recovery is ego deflation, you know, like in a way in that so the sublimation of the ego so the spiritual self can lead. But I we it's not possible for me 24-7. It doesn't work. I'm always dealing with the fact that I'm always going to be an alcoholic. And if I don't do the same things, and if I don't do those, commit to those one day at a time, my little cuckoo bird inside is gonna tell me that I'm afraid or that I'm, you know, I should have that, or like, oh, a pie is good. That that would help your anxiety. That's a good choice, you know, like stuff like that, where you're like, no, you're escaping again. So there's so this has been an ongoing journey. And yes, I have had extreme financial success and career success. And, you know, I got a record deal after not after failing forever. So I've had two albums on the MI music label. I've been a Hayes author for 20 years, you know. I've I've basically followed spirits nudges, but I could not, but I am constantly aware that I need to change. There is no such thing as I have arrived in recovery, or that I am that there is a guarantee that I'm safe. And that took a long time. I I got very arrogant um when I was like around, I don't know, five or six years sober. And I would look, I would listen to people 30 years sober and they were struggling and they were talking about their struggles. I'm like, well, they have terrible programs. I don't want to go near them, right? Because I judged people. I got really, oh, this is I've made it now. And it wasn't true. And and so I've what I have seen over over time is those slogans that they say, like live and let live and keep it simple. And you know, and uh when I'm judging somebody, you know, one finger's out there, three are pointing back at me, you know, all of these kind of euphemisms that we have. I think that's a word, I'm not sure. Um, if I some isms, word isms, you know, that we use in um in 12-step programs. And uh, you know, it became, and I also became very involved um in Cocaine Anonymous in Toronto. I uh me and two guys, we were like a we all hung out together because really if you look back at those times, you know, we had a subculture, a social subculture. We were different than other drug addicts because you know, part of this it was a social drug and it was a lot of sexual acting out. And so, well, we had very specific experiences that only we understood each other. So me and these two guys that met in AA started, we got a starter kit from Montreal, and then we started CA in Toronto. I was only present to it for about five or six years. Um, and then when my parents died, I had to go to a different program for eating disorders. And you know, I also realized that that bleeding deacon thing, you got to turn it over, but it kept me clean. And but what I told them all in there is like, you got to go to the mother program. You're you'll be successful in here if you go there, right? And just hear it because alcohol, drugs of any kind, it's the same thing, it's no different, it's just dressed up differently. Compulsion is compulsion, it doesn't matter what it is. You see, people now, I just recently, because a friend of mine said the meetings were really good, um, went for a few times to um I think it's called uh internet, not Internet Anonymous, uh some some program. Oh, I can't remember the name of it, but it's where people go that have that stay doom scrolling all day, that stay on the internet like 10 hours a day and stuff. And it was very, very amazing to hear how the same feeling of addiction towards um social media, you know, all of that, it's just as devastating. They lose their jobs, they lose their partners, they lose themselves, and they have shame, the same things. The same thing. And so what I've learned being in recovery is like I could, I listen, I could qualify. I could qualify. Every program. And and I'm aware that at the core of being a confident sober woman, I'm going to refer back to your the name of your podcast. Um the willingness to be humble. Really important to not take yourself too seriously. I went back to meetings. So I was on the cover of Spirituality and Health magazine back in September. And I was going to meetings sporadically. I had a group of girlfriends who were sober a long time. And I was not, and I was, I was in Portugal for three months or two months, sorry. And then I was, we were moving around all the place. So I wasn't going to any except during the pandemic. I went online, but I was not, I didn't have a home group. I didn't, you know, I didn't have my my core rootedness. And I looked at that magazine, and there I was plastered across a bookstore shelf, right eye level. And I went, how did you get there? And what does it even mean? And I got on the blower so fast and I called around, said, okay, I need to start going to some meetings. And I went, I took a friend of mine who just happened to show up and needed help and started going to some meetings in Toronto. We got a condo there, literally, so I could go to meetings and also have have a um, because we'd move back to Canada, also to have a um a connection to my friends, but but where I got sober, because that's where I first got sober. But then I ended up um joining a group online that is um in New York. And I and lots of old, lot of old timers mixed up with newcomers. So I love it because lots of people there are sober like I am long term, but I recommitted, I went to 90 and 90 meetings, and I I go now. I I just didn't stop. I thought this is too much fun, I love it. And I and I was able to say to myself, I need this, like I can't do it without it. I cannot do this alone. I could have drank or done something stupid. Um, I could have like all the things that I took for granted when I started going back to meetings. Now, again, keep an open mind. If you don't go to meetings and you found sobriety in a different way, all the power to you. I'm sharing my story. And if something in here resonates with you, great. And if it doesn't, I would say, take what you like and leave the rest. I might say one thing only that you like. That's good. Um, but my journey has been about humility and it's been about like, hey, I can't do this alone. You know, and I had to really separate this persona because you know, this persona, like I was on the Dr. Phil show and a couple of times, and I was living in a small community in um where was it? New Hampshire, because we moved from Sedona to New Hampshire. We moved to the States for 10 years, and there were people there at this meeting. Oh, I saw you on TV and all this stuff. And then I started getting really like, well, wait, I'm not here. I I can't I have to be here for recovery. And then I started shying away from meetings and and I made it mean something, and now it doesn't mean anything. Like I don't care. Like I'm in there for my recovery. It doesn't matter what I do because all of that's gonna get taken away from me. Everything will be taken away if I pick up a drink. So if I if I stop going because my ego says, Oh, I'm special and I need special treatment, and oh my God, you can't talk about you know what I'm after that. Like my success does not come from my career. My success comes from my spiritual recovery, my emotional recovery, a sense of feeling that I have a sense of being grounded, my practical spirituality. What I do, like I can change hats with that or faces or masks anytime. It just so happens, which has been helpful, is that all the work I do is spiritually based. So, you know, I threw myself into this world, you know, and I came into it as an intuitive, but really it's about personal transformation. So everything that I do, everything I teach is really about that. Now, obviously, it's you'll and anybody that has bought my oracle cards or read my books, you can tell I'm in the program because I talk everything I am today is is because of that. I am nothing without that. I am absolutely nothing about that. Yes, I'm the one that has to get up every morning and commit, but without that program, I'd be dead. I would be dead. I would or in a mental hospital hospital. You know, I suffer from everything, anxiety. I'm sure. Oh, yeah, all the ADHD stuff. If there was some people that could tell my parents what was wrong with me, like I would have been on meds, right? Because I was I was Looney Tunes. But today that's called, they have names for that. You're on this spectrum, you're neurodivergent, you have ADHD, you have all these things, right? But we didn't know what to call any of it except like don't tell the neighbors. Anyway, I don't know if you want to add or talk about anything, but I'm a I know that my as long as I am doing the do things that are important to recovery, and that means self-care, and that means learning to say no. And all the by the way, too, I am a recovered people pleaser. That has been the thing that has got me in worst trouble. I have the the codependency part came out in spades, you know, and I found that when I I really reveled in being a sponsor. I think that was my ego too, but it kept me sober. But it was like I could I could like share my experience that was so important. Who was I kidding? Anyway, it didn't screw anybody up, but stop at you. Okay, sorry, my dog is needing I I should belong to Alipup.

Remote Neurofeedback For Recovery Support

Long-Term Sobriety And Staying Vigilant

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Hey, it's me, Shelby. Have you ever wondered what's really happening in your brain during recovery? Are you ready to take control of your anxiety, sleep better, and finally feel focused and confident? I want to introduce you to a game changer that's transforming women's recovery. Remote neurofeedback therapy. I want you to think of this as a personal trainer for your brain. It's helping you build new neuropathways right from the comfort of your own home. So if you're dealing with anxiety that just won't quit, if you have ADHD that's making life chaotic, or sleep issues that leave you exhausted, neurofeedback could be your missing piece. It's science-backed brain training that works with your natural healing process, helping you regulate emotions and build lasting confidence. The best part is you don't need to add another appointment to your busy schedule. My remote neurofeedback program brings professional guidance and support right to your living room. Do you want to learn more about neurofeedback therapy? You can go to my website, www.shelbyjohn.com, to download my free guide. Is neurofeedback right for you? Together we'll create the calm, confident future you that you deserve. That's www.shelbyjohn.com. Take the first step towards training your brain for lasting change. Well, thank you so much, Colette, for sharing all that and so in such in-depth um parts of your story. I really truly believe that that's just how it works, right? I mean, I also got sober at around the same time that the same age that you did. Um I got I turned 27 and rehab. So I um have been around kind of a while too. So um that long-term recovery um thing or phenomenon is like a real thing. And I didn't really understand what that was either until probably a little bit recently. Uh, and then I was interviewing another woman who's a little bit more sober than me. I got sober in 2002. I think she was more like 1998 or something. And so she talked a lot about like long-term, like that, she kept saying, like, that's like a long-term recovery thing. And I didn't understand it fully. But then when I when I started to listen to her and we were chatting, and I think about my life today, um, I I so do embrace uh that concept. And it's not to diminish what anybody's doing, because of course, even one day sober, we should celebrate. Because for many people, even staying sober one day is it has been impossible, you know. So it's always amazing. And you're right. Um, we too talk a lot about 12 stuff here because that's how I got sober as well. But we also really recognize um however anybody wants to get sober, because obviously that is the point. If you have decided that um substances are a problem in your life, then however you are using or whatever you're using to be well is is good. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

And I believe that too. So I I'm really happy that that's your hang on, I gotta put her down. Um, on the floor there. Go ahead, be zooted. Just don't pee on the carpet. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know that there's a lot of different paths to recovery, but recovery is about change. And I think that that's what the I don't care how you get to it. When you are sober, that's just the start. Get getting off the substances is not enough because you're still left with all the wounds, all the stories, all the narratives, everything that's clung to you, and the identity that you had before. It's just you feel better and you're not drinking or you're not drugging or you're not doing whatever. But you know, if you really want to have the benefit, like sobriety is about a type of awakening of sorts, right? And it's never ends. It does give you some phases where, like, and I know that's a long-term recovery thing where you have some periods of time where you focus on other things or whatever. But you know, at the moment for me, um, you know, looking back over the time, I can see how I could have like I had a motorcycle accident and um I used to ride Harley's because I wanted to get over my fear of what had happened to me. So I thought I'm gonna be the one on the big bike. But then I almost had I almost died on an accident. So that wasn't good. But um, but I had to, yeah, I was prescribed Vicodin. I mean, they gave me morphine in the hospital because my, I mean, literally, I all the flesh was pulled off my leg. But afterwards, I was I was in terrible pain. So for pain management, but I'd call my sponsor every day and say, and and for those of you who don't know what that is, it's a person that um is committed to talk to you. So you have like an accountability person that you call that that person signs up to be that for you. So she's longer sober than me. Anyway, so then one day I I woke up and I like didn't want to have my medication on the right time. I just wanted to have a cup of coffee, pop a pill, and call somebody. So I called her right away and said, I'm in trouble. So I didn't have a slip, thank God, but I could see what a slippery slope that was, and also how other people go back out on pain meds. And I'm like, and as soon as now something happens at the hospital, I tell them right away, I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic, I can't take any medication, that's mind-altering. And that's I tell the dentist that do not prescribe me Percocet, do not prescribe me this, don't give me this, this, or this, right? I don't care. I don't care. Um I'm not gonna, I'm not putting myself at risk for that.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

And you shouldn't. Like, we definitely need to be honest with our providers for sure. And you said a couple things that are really that really stood out to me, and um, I can relate to uh as well. One of which was, you know, we never arrive. And I say that very frequently as well. You know, one thing that was said to me a long, long time ago was, you know, that we're all under construction. And we are I firmly believe that we're all being renovated constantly. Yeah, we don't never really arrive in life until like really we die. You know, like I feel like so I've I continue to want to be a lifelong learner just like you, where we are like growing and changing. And you know, even as we're aging, you know, I I mean I'm not the expert. I mean, I'm the expert in some things in my I'm the expert of my life. I'm an expert in some things in my in my work, but like I don't know everything. And I don't begin to think that I do, or and I haven't certainly never been every place I could possibly go. And so there's so much to do and see still in life. And so kind of having that kind of open mind around, you know, we don't, we don't know it all. Like you mentioned about humility, that's a big part of um my work in general as a therapist and also in my life and as the parent of three now um young adults. Um, humility is is really necessary. And I honestly think that in many ways you kind of alluded to some of this, that um this is a missing link, I think, in our world today, like in our society. I feel like that that people really do not have a deep enough connection, I think, to the concept of humility and what that really means, like a falling on your knees, surrender. Like I am no better than you die under the privilege.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

No, and the self-honesty.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yeah, like I'm no better than anyone else. I'm different. I have different privilege, I have different skill sets, but you know, the inside parts of me are the same as yours. And like, you know, I'm really no better than anybody. And I think that kind of level of humility for me has come from a deep sense of spiritual connection as well. Like that spiritual connection over the last 10 years specifically, even in five years actually, um, has grown me exponentially. It's been the spiritual process that's taken me from from here to here in my in my life, and just I guess in recovery. And also, you know, you talked a lot about like, you know, you said sobriety um recovery is only the beginning. I always say constantly, like, sobriety is only the beginning, you know. Like it just is.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

I mean abstinence is the beginning.

EMDR And Healing The Freeze Response

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Well, sobriety, yeah, meaning the absence of substances, right? Substances, like I I wrote a memoir back in um 2001 and it's called Recovering and Recovery for that exact reason, right? Because yeah, it's um very raw, real. Um, it's all about um recovering and recovery, right? Like you mentioned, you grew up in recovery, and like I feel the same way. I was 27 when I turned 27 in a rehab, I got pregnant six months after I got sober, and then I have three kids in four years, which I wouldn't recommend, but that's how it worked for me. And so I kind of had to do some backtracking, right? I had to grow up um backwards a little bit, kind of because I was so focused on all this like mommy stuff and like whoa. And um, you know, in year four I had my first sober bottom because I was really just overwhelmed and not doing all the things. But um, I'm also curious because you also mentioned that you did some EMDR work, which is the kind of therapy that I do in my practice and what I promote very heavily because all the neurologically based forms of treatment to me are the you do EMDR. I do. That's great. Yeah, and I I just expanded my practice into a group. So my clinicians are EMDR trained. I do remote neurofeedback, we focus on somatic work because that we know is what is actually healing the brain. Not, I mean, traditional talk therapy is wonderful and it can be used for a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

No, no, I get it. It was good for me in the beginning, but it wasn't anymore.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

I'm just curious about how I'm curious because it took you a long time. You mentioned that it took a long time for you to get to that place where you wanted to do that work or you thought it was necessary. I'm wondering what the change, like, how did you know, or why what was the barrier for that? Or why why did it take you so long?

SPEAKER_02 38:07

So I did all kinds of other therapy along the way, right? So it did so it was just it was out of curiosity, really. Like I didn't know that it existed. So I had I've always been in therapy. Like I've I you know, not like for stretches, and then I'll stop for a while, then something comes up and I go, hmm, I need to look at this. So I had a relationship between there was there was just some family stuff that had come up that was really important. And uh I was looking at it in relationship to how my it was really in a relationship to my my inner artist, right? So that's why I did it, and also because it was completely absolutely relative to uh what happened to me uh during the rape, the first one, which was I became a possum. You know, that's frightening fauna attached a freeze, and uh and I couldn't contact myself, and I went along with something so that I so that I couldn't I I couldn't believe this thing was happening to me. So I had a complete psychotic break. And um but I I started looking at how oh come on, Bizoo, come here, puppy. Sorry, my dog. Um well since you're not editing Bizoo, come here, come here, puppy. Oh my god, she's just crying, looking the other way. Yeah, you know I'm gonna come and call you, right? You know it. She's 11 and kind of going a little deaf and blind. And anyway, okay, yes, you found me right here. You know exactly where I was. Um, so without getting into too much personal detail, but I can tell you that I was ready to take a look at my relationship to power and how I shut down when being attacked or you know, somehow being confronted. And I realized that if I was going to continue doing what I do, I needed to really take a look at that. And it knew exactly where it came from. And the weird thing was is that my mother was also 19. She was raped by Russian soldiers in front of her dad uh or stepdad, the one who yeah, um, at the same age in the same month of that year that I was. When I landed in the hospital, she told me not to tell anybody. She told me it happened to her. I just pull up my bootstraps, even though they're gonna send me to psychiatrist. I wasn't allowed to talk about it, or the family. And that was what she told me. Like, this is you just deal basically with it. And we are just gonna move on, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:40

So right. So it sounds like something came up in your life. Like it sounds like it was a work-related situation. Was it like a work-related relationship? No, it was just like a trigger.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

No, the trigger was really watching, uh, you know, watching how the internet started to become, you know, confrontational, etc. Yeah, yeah. And so it was really, yeah, there's just certain private things that I'm not willing to share. Oh, yeah, for sure. That went on in my personal life, but um also to do with um, you know, yeah, nothing to do with my marriage. It was that's that's been awesome. But anyway, just a failure.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Yeah, that's interesting. No, I'm just always curious about um, you know, because sometimes people, you know, I'm also a big believer, and I don't know, like it sounds like you are too. Like, you know, when you get sober, whether it's an AA or you went to a sober retreat or whatever you're using, um, it this is a layered approach, no matter what. So like I got sober in AA as well because that's all we had back then. There was no internet, there was no quitlet, there was no online meetings, there was none of it. And so that was it. We rehab and AA. So, but now in the last five or seven years, I mean now there's all these amazing tools. We have these, what I call modern recovery, which is fabulous. Like, I love Quitlet. I started to read it, I started to enjoy it and like pull it apart and feel like, wow, what are these women doing? This is amazing, you know? And you know, I'm friends with Jen Couch and she created Sobersis and you know, in the podcasting world, all of these other incredible women that are writing and talking and doing big things, which is why I like to talk to people like you. Um, but it is a layered approach, right? So, like you that recovery program or whatever else is one part. And I still recommend it because I think that people, especially in the beginning, really need to be surrounded by people who are sober doing sober things, you know. So whether you like it or you don't like it, you don't have to like it. And you don't have to like all the parts of it. I still recommend it because I think it's helpful in the very beginning. And now some people stick in your lifers like you, and that's wonderful. But then we need to layer on the other things. We need we need nutrition, we need, you know, spirituality, we need um complimentary things like acupuncture and massage and all of which I do, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:53

All the things. So I went back to the I went back to meetings after not having gone for so long because I I needed that social connection and something that I could also do service in that had nothing to do with my profession. Absolutely. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

That's what's wonderful about the program too, because you can step in and out anytime, you know, because we already know, we already know as people who've been around a while, that that is the medicine that works. Like we know we're never gonna leave a meeting and be like, oh, that was terrible. You know, it's just not gonna, you're not gonna have that, you know. And so it's wonderful. Yeah. And you can take a break and go back and go to meetings when you're out of town, you can go on women's retreats, you know, there's a ton of stuff. But my my point was is like we never need just one thing. And as the break happens, we need to layer on that treatment. And so I'm always curious of what helps people to get since I, you know, I'm in the middle, I'm a mental health professional, like I that's my world. I'm so curious about what uh what helps people to get into that. And usually it's like a relationship. So usually it's a something, you know, right? Like of course, and it relationship or you have a baby. Where, you know, somebody you have a loss, you know, there's like these things that go on in life for all of us. All of these things happen. And then sometimes they're big triggers, right? Sometimes you have this thing happen and then you're like, oh shoot, I actually didn't really deal with that at the time, or I wasn't really healed from that. And then it just kind of sends you into treatment, which is a really good thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

But I never actually was able to connect all the dots. That was the other thing. I was like, oh, I know where this comes from. Because I was also dealing a lot of stuff with my parents and doing shadow work. And you know, so I'm a big, I'm a thousand percent with you. For me, 12 steps is the base, and everything else on top of it will help me grow. Like I needed that's why I said right off the bat, I needed outside help. It wasn't enough. One of the things late recently, and I'll I'll just bring this up because since it's so everywhere, it's ubiquitous everywhere you see now. And again, what I'm about to say has nothing to do with my opinion on whether this works for people or not, because I'm sure it does. But like I I've had an eating disorder, like literally, I still have it. Um, I I haven't been bulimic in 30 years, right? So that's been amazing, but I still have like I have the 10 pounds, right? You know, like the 12 pounds. And I'm like, I see myself knowing full well that no, you shouldn't have that, you know, and like uh then I would be doing it. So my doctor suggested, oh, you know, everybody's taking this jab now, the manjar, all this, right? The GLP ones. And so I'm like, I can't, right? This is not okay for me. Like, yes, I could lose everything in like that. All my friends that went on it like that. I know I cannot mess with anything that's gonna screw up my dopamine receptors. I am not, um I don't because if that might shut that down, but I need to get to that core, so hence I'm looking for a new EMDR person. Uh-huh. So I'll become yes, I was like, you literally answered. I'm going, you do like this morning. I was like telling my girlfriend, you know, I really want to get a new EMDR person, but the person needs to understand recovery.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Yeah. Well, EMDR is very magical, obviously. It is. I wouldn't do it if I didn't believe in it that it was my number one treatment for trauma. Um, I get to watch people right in front of my eyes um change and heal, and it's the most magical thing in the whole world. So I'm so thankful for that. And and frankly, all the neurological approaches, you know, we're learning the brain research that's been done over the last 10 years has shown us so much about what trauma has done to our brains, and we all have it. I don't care who you are. If you've been a human on this earth for any length of time, you have it. And you also mentioned um like things like ADHD and stuff, and like, you know, I obviously struggle with that as well. Um, I was doing great with that. I was doing great with that um for many, many years. I think recovery helped a lot with that to like tone that down. And then when I got into my later 40s, you know, perimenaboles started to kick in and that exacerbates those symptoms and makes things completely, you know, kind of out of control. And and and in relation to dopamine and things too. Like I think any one of us, I know myself personally, will find any way net that I can to relieve myself, right? Because that is my natural way. My natural go to my escape. Yeah, I'm not gonna pick up substances. I'm just not gonna do that. No, but I will go to the chicken and get uh, you know, and I will do that consistently as soon as I have a feeling, just because I want to have some relief, even though I know, like by a million times in every treatment, every training, every education that I have, that that's not gonna help me. Um, so you're so right to nail about all of the other addictions and like you know, you all come together, right? Yeah, they do. And their internet stuff is very real too. Like, there's even treatment facilities for that now. It's very scary and sad, but it's the same. We're all this it's the same thing.

Belonging, The Art Of Manifesting, Closing

SPEAKER_02 47:55

I want the freedom. Here's the thing I know recovery and recovery communities, yes, right. And plus, as long as we don't compare ourselves to each other and find a reason to identify that that that was really something when I really learned that right from the get-go. Don't compare, identify, listen for it as something you can identify with, and then you'll feel like you belong. And the sense of belonging that I had with other recovering addicts and alcoholics is spectacular because I feel like, oh, they get it, they get me, they understand. I don't have to be ashamed that we're talking about spectacular.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Oh my gosh, well, like I couldn't think of a more profound way to close our time together because that is so true. That our the the sense of belonging, the feeling of being um home or we fit in. Um, there's nothing like being able to walk into a room with recovery people, or at least in a room and a space where where you know that's a big deal and feel completely at home. You know, I mean that's how that's truly how it works. And um I I love your energy and your spirit and your zest for life. And um, we didn't even get to talk about your book, so we're gonna have to have another next time, whenever. Umifesting.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

There it is, right here.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah, the art of I'll link it below. But um, I want to make sure we have another conversation because there's so much more for us to even talk about your work, and I'd love to be able to get into that a little more. We'll do like a part two. Um, sure. But for now, where do you like people to get a hold of you if they want to?

SPEAKER_02 49:21

This is my website, um, collettebarrenreed.com. And we give we send so much free stuff. So sign up to my newsletter, it's free, right? You know, there's so many, and it is very much foundational in recovery. But so it definitely anything that I do will suit somebody in recovery. Wonderful language, you'll recognize yourself in everything that I do. Um, the Art of Manifesting is recent. It's a somatically based, all done by neuroscience way to use doodling as a way to help anxiety and to help you co-create the life you want by rehearsing that state of being in advance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Well, thank you so much for your time. And I look forward to us coming back together again to have a part two conversation because this has been fabulous. And I hope you have a fantastic day. And um, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

You're so welcome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Woohoo! This is Shelby John, and thank you for joining me on the Confidence Sober Women podcast, where we have conversations with women building lives rooted in clarity, resilience, and freedom. If today's episode resonated with you, be sure to hit subscribe. And if you would, take a few seconds to leave a review and then share it with a woman you know who really needs to hear it. If you're ready for deeper support through therapy, EMDR intensives, or remote neurofeedback at Holistic Living, you can visit our website at holisticlivingtherapy.com, where we help people rewire their brains for lasting freedom from anxiety, addiction, and trauma. Until next time, uncover the truth, heal beyond the surface, and transform your life. See you next week.