Emotional Sobriety, Not Labels: Redefining Recovery for High-Achieving Women

What if sobriety is less about labels and more about how you live, think, and feel each day?

In this episode, Shelby sits down with transformation coach Heather Simco to talk about a more honest and grounded approach to recovery. With over a decade of sobriety and more than 20 years in entrepreneurship, Heather shares how high-achieving women can move beyond burnout, alcohol, and self-sabotage by focusing on emotional sobriety, not just abstinence.

They explore the patterns that often go unnoticed, including shifting addictions, perfectionism, overconsumption, and the constant search for relief. This conversation looks beyond quitting alcohol and focuses on what it actually takes to feel well in your daily life, mentally, physically, and emotionally.

Heather also shares her personal story, including rebuilding relationships, navigating motherhood, and the level of awareness it takes to stay grounded in recovery. If you have ever questioned your habits, your coping mechanisms, or what real freedom looks like, this episode offers a clear and practical perspective.

In this episode, you will hear about:

• Reframing sobriety and removing the stigma around the word “addict”
• Emotional sobriety and its role in long-term healing
• Hidden addictions such as food, control, and productivity
• Nervous system regulation and mental health in sobriety
• Building a balanced and sustainable life after alcohol

This conversation is for sober women, sober curious women, and anyone on a sobriety journey who is focused on emotional healing, mental health, and building a more stable and clear life.

About the Guest
Heather Simco is a transformation coach and founder of Complete Concierge Solutions and Sober Boss Babe. She helps high-achieving women break free from burnout, alcohol, and self-sabotage through mental, physical, and emotional sobriety. Her work focuses on helping women reclaim their energy, strengthen their leadership, and build aligned lives and businesses.

Connect with Heather:

Website: www.heathersimco.com
Instagram: @heathersimco
TikTok: @heathesimco
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@heathersimco

About the Host

Shelby John is a licensed therapist and founder of Wholistic Living. Through the Confident Sober Women podcast, she explores mental health and sobriety, trauma recovery, and personal growth for women who are building lives rooted in clarity, confidence, and real freedom.

Website: https://shelbyjohn.com

Support the show

If this episode was helpful, consider subscribing, rating, or sharing it with someone who might need it. This could be a sober woman, someone exploring life after alcohol, or anyone working through anxiety, depression, or emotional challenges.

Shelby also offers remote neurofeedback therapy and EMDR as part of her work in trauma recovery and nervous system regulation. You can learn more on her website.

Her memoir, Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety, is available wherever books are sold.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well, hey there, sober ladies. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women Podcast. I have so much fun today with my friend Heather Simcoe. She's a transformation coach and the founder of Complete Concierge Solutions and Sober Boss Babe. Don't you just love that name, Boss Babe? She helps high-achieving women break free from burnout, alcohol, and self-sabotage through mental, physical, and emotional sobriety. And we had a fabulous conversation about all of those things and how we did that in our own lives. She's been sober for kind of a little while now. And uh she's really a breath of fresh air, super aligned in her recovery program, uh, her spirituality in her marriage with her raising an adult child. So we really touched on all of those things, as well as um some mental health treatment options and just what it's like and what it takes to be well. That is the theme of this episode. So I would encourage you to grab your big glass of water or your favorite mocktail and enjoy this conversation with Heather Simcoe. Welcome to Confident Sober Women. I'm your host, Shelby John, a licensed therapist and founder of Holistic Living. This is a space for women who are elevating their lives and choosing clarity over chaos, confidence over coping, and real freedom over short-term relief. And we all know that alcohol and drugs were never the glue that was keeping us together. They were just a temporary escape. Together we explore sobriety, mental health, nervous system healing, and personal development. We uncover the truth, heal beneath the surface, and build lives we don't want to escape from. Well, hey there, Heather. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confidence Over Women podcast. I'm so glad to have you here. And I'm gonna turn the mic over to you, let you share a little bit more about your story, and then we're gonna chat.

Heather’s Story And Breaking Point

Building Recovery Through Community

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Excellent. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. And as another woman in recovery, you know how important it is to share the message. Um, so other people know that there's hope in recovery, it can be done, and the strength behind it. Um, I just so you everyone knows, my recovery date is uh April 30th, 2014. So I'll be going on 12 years at the end of this month, coming up very shortly. And how I arrived there, um grew up, I mean, most of us have families that are, you know, it's genetic. So um being raised by addicts, my parents were teenagers when they had me and shortly divorced afterward. I grew up in my dad got remarried and we ended up, I ended up in a very Cinderella-like environment. And growing up, I didn't realize that my dad struggled alcoholism my whole life. It was just not super present in the household. So we got swift under the rug. When he was in recovery, I'd see coins, but I didn't, I thought it was a punishment. I didn't really understand what was going on. And I was a teenager, so this is how well they kind of hid the issue. He'd come home sick. I thought he was just sick, not that he was drunk. So that was an interesting uh perspective. And I ended up um focusing on getting out of school because of the whole household environment I had. That was my ticket, was to end up in college. And my first, I would say, about at addiction, because I wasn't exposed to drugs and alcohol. I was a super nerd in, I mean, Silicon Valley, where I'm in Nerd Central, so I really focused on grades, but I got really depressed one summer and food became my first form of addiction because I had no access to nothing else. So I didn't realize that that was going to be my first drug of choice and became very unhealthy, really just escaping through food, going from very athletic to being very overweight, and depression setting in through all of high school. Fast forward, I moved from California to New York. End up on my own at 17 years old, no driver's license, no car in a state where I basically know no one. My stepmother grew up there, and so we moved. And college, it's you know, the college situation. You go out, you party the first time I had a drink. All the behavior seemed normal to my peers. And again, didn't realize that I had any kind of sort of addiction that needed to be addressed. And then I met my husband and we started dating when I was 19. Thank God we're still together, like we've been married 23 years, together almost 30, and he's been through it from the beginning to my recovery. And again, we were in party mode. Most of it was, you know, similar to everyone else. It was just when life started, career started, and the craziness kept continuing when we're supposed to be full-fledged adults in a responsible environment. And I got to the point where we put it down. I put it down to have my daughter. I was four years sober, sober, uh, dry drunk and postpartum depression. That is, I don't recommend that for anyone that knows no idea. And so I didn't realize that you know I was dealing with uh that whole mental illness. And so I picked up after four years thinking, I took four years off. I got this. And obviously, because I'm sober now, that was not the case. And we eventually we were very successful in business. We built a business, I was able to leave my teaching job, and then had a lot of free time in my hands. No one could tell me when I can't or can't drink, I can write it off. And we ended up selling part of our business, migrating down to Southwest Florida, and too much time on my hands, and money and paradise and happy hours. I spiraled completely downward, and my alcoholism just completely just that that was it. It was the the end of the beginning of the end, I should say. And coming down here, we ended up looking for a community in church because we weren't really church back uh growing up. My husband, we call him recovering Catholic. And so we went there and I met a few women who shared their story. And first of all, we're smiling about it. I've been sober this many years and this, that I'm like, you don't say that out loud. Nor are you happy about that. Like it blew, it completely blew my mind. There were two women, one was seven years, one with 25, and I couldn't even stitch a few hours together, let alone that much time. And thank God they were the ones who brought me to my first meeting. And it took me about a year or so, but I had that research and development thinking I can control it. I'm not one of you guys, you know. I really compare instead of identifying and finally I got to the point where I put it down for a little while, picked it back up, that progressive drinking, and I couldn't pass anything, any kind of store that sold alcohol with out picking it up on my way home. And I got home and finally it was enough. My husband's like, he, my best friend, he wouldn't talk to me. He was just everyone was done. I and I knew I hit my breaking point. And I that was the moment in which where I just folded over, finally asked God for help, and said I can't do this anymore. And finally heard all the wisdom in the rooms, and it finally hit, and that compulsion lifted. And haven't had a drink since then. But as you very well know, that's where the that's where the work really begins because the storm stops and you got to start picking up the pieces of your alcoholism. And so, you know, I listened to everyone recovery. I had wonderful people. I mean, they we have what's called a 24-hour club here, they call the 24 carat club because there's so much good recovery. Like as much as there's drinking here, on the flip side, people will move here because the meetings are so amazing in in this particular area. And I had just wonderful elderly, like they've had they had more years sober than I had years alive. And they just pulled me in, enveloped me into I had grandpar like just all these parental figures and grandparent figures I didn't have growing up, just filled in that void and you know, and helped me with my daughter rebuild our relationship and make it strong again. And from there, just working on that little bit of recovery, recovery job, part-time job, which is never fun. And again, just listening to the message and whether something is good or something is wrong, making sure that I go into those rooms and share my story so that I know the grass isn't greener, and that vigilance of working towards, you know, the mental, physical, and emotional sobriety. Because just because I put the drink down, what happened was I picked up food again and I rerouted my addiction to a completely different addiction. And then my health started failing because I just channeled my addiction. So I'm not drinking anymore, but now I was completely overeating and I had gotten in a car accident, so the inflammation was all over the place, and having to really heal myself from the inside out. And that's where now focusing on the whole body, a physical, mental, and physical uh emotional sobriety, I found is the key for longevity because this disease wants to find a way. It's like running water wants to find a way to get through. And it's either constructive energy or deconstructive energy. And so I have to work every single day. I'm like, okay, how am I going to use this extra energy that I used to use towards, you know, channeling this addiction into something productive and constructive? And now it's helping other women in recovery, helping them, you know, sober-minded even if they're not an addict. You don't have to be an addict to have an addiction or to be addicted to something and really look at the whole body, mental, physical, and uh emotional sobriety, because you can be anger addicted. That's when I know I'm, you know, but can kind of self-inventory myself and um meant all those different areas, cleaning up my diet, working out, taking care of myself, and having just a really healthy routine. And the other thing that it's is super important are the communities. I have my church community, I have the recovery community, and making sure I have I call them insurance policies. Funny enough, I just started doing a Pilates class. One of the women there, we're looking at each other, like, where do I know you from? And we realized it was we were friends of Bill W. Like it had been years since we'd run into each other. But no matter where I go, my hairdresser, I have so many people in my world, no matter where I go, there's someone in recovery. Where it's first of all, it's like the miracle of sobriety running into all these amazing women who've just transformed their lives. But also to remind me of who and what I am first, I have to make sure that I'm taking care of that addiction first so that I don't lose everything afterward. And that's just so important in what I'm doing now and transitioning and having transitioned into coaching women full-time has been a true blessing to turn my purpose and passion into being able to get paid to help women, whatever spectrum, clean up themselves inside. Because we live in a highly consumable addictive society that to bring the inside of our world into, I mean, we call them normies, I guess, where this behavior, that that addictive and coping behavior, where it can become toxic and start breaking down really beneficial things to kind of rewrap their life to live balanced and healthy and more calm. So they're not living what I used to do extremes. I call deprivation and overcompensation and finally learning to live in that middle spectrum has been really the most important part of my daily living is catching myself on either end. And my most recent revelation was um after 10 years of sobriety, I'd share my story every year with my my community. And um I realized I'm like, I got addicted to weight loss challenges. It was like I'd sign up, like I always needed a goal, and I was like, holy cow! I did it again. I did so it's just you always being, you know, self-reflective and looking through and where those behaviors sneak out. And I didn't, I didn't even see it come until I looked back, I was like, oh wait, shoot, I did it again. All right, let me step back and look again and really reroute my behavior. So that's been a huge part. But you know, without all the fellowship with all the people around me, I I definitely would not have been here. I was headed towards death. I mean, I I did blood work a year after I was sober, and I still had high liver enzymes.

unknown 11:26

Oh wow.

Addiction Transfers And Whole-Body Healing

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Which was insane. Like to put it down for a whole year and still have I did it, didn't look like anything on the outside, but to still how much repair it took on the inside from from the damage that I had done. So an incredible blessed point now, and to be able to turn around. And it's a gift you need to give someone else to keep getting it yourself. And so I I feel truly blessed and grateful to be able to be in a position that I'm alive and well and that I'm capable and able to be able to share this message with other women to be able to start their lives over again because they can if they're willing to.

Parenting Kids Around Alcohol

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Thank you so much, Heather, for sharing all that and um for being just so vulnerable and honest. That's truly, I feel like how it works for all of us, right? It's just, you know, when we show up and we tell our stories, whatever it is, even if you're not in recovery, we all have something to share. We all have things that have gone on in our lives, we all have, you know, a before and an after moment. Um, and when we show up and we tell those stories um in a very real and authentic way, it it helps other people, you know. Um, we just can't help it. And, you know, being in the recovery community is is a special place, I think. You know, Laura McGowan says it the best, honestly, with, you know, we are the luckiest. I truly believe that too, that we truly are the luckiest. We were given a design for living that really works. And um, I still believe that today and hold that dear to my heart. Um, every single day. You know, I had a sponsor once that said, you know, she wished that everybody would get drunk and lose everything so they had to come to AA because there's just so much for about like living life. Like it's really is a design for living that really works, right? And like regular people, people who don't show up in these rooms or in recovery programs, whatever that looks like for you, don't learn those same skills. You know, they aren't forced because it's not a life or death situation to look at themselves in that same way that we are called to do in order to make the kind of life-changing um decisions on every single day that need to take place in order for us to get and stay sober and to live. So um, it truly is the easier software. It doesn't feel that way in the beginning, though, for sure. You highlighted you highlighted that really well. And um, that's just the truth of it, you know. Um, one of the pleasures of my life and in my profession too is, you know, I get the I have the honor and privilege of working with people on a very regular basis in my practice. I have a I'm a therapist, a mental health therapist, I do EMDR therapy and I've I do remote neurofeedback. I expanded into a group now. I have it's called holistic living, and we, you know, we where we all use integrated mental health practices here, but I specialize in trauma and addictions and anxiety. And so I do work with a lot of people who are either in recovery, trying to be in recovery, living with someone, parenting someone, we're parented by someone, like pretty much everybody is affected. And so I get, like I said, the honor and privilege of working with people um very regularly who sometimes don't get it. Um I have two in my practice. There's been like chronic relapsers, you know, just chronic. I talk about them here sometimes. And it's it's actually so painful for me personally. And I've been in places in my work with them where I've just been like, oh my god, like this is just not I'm not being very effective, you know, like or it's not working or whatever. And then I just have to quickly remind myself that, you know, people um have to do it, you have to make that decision, you know, every single day. And and we do those things every single day today around our sobriety. But I I don't know about you, but for me, um, I've been sober kind of a little while. And so it's not really a forefront of my mind. My sobriety isn't necessarily the forefront of my mind all the time anymore. However, I am surrounded by a lot of other people who drink and use substances very heavily and regularly, socially all the time, like in my family, you know, all around me. And so I'm exposed to it a lot, but I'm not, I'm never questioning my own right now. However, I am exposed to it, which makes me question all of it and look at it and be not harmed by it, I guess, but kind of harmed in my heart. So my heart hurts, you know, because I'm just like, why do we have this? You know, why do we have this? And it's heartbreaking. You have a young daughter, my daughter, my middle daughter's the same as yours, I have an older one, and then I have a younger one who's 18, he's graduating from high school this year, and you know, they all they all love to drink and party and like do their thing, and it's very painful as a parent, I think, to watch that, whether it's problematic or not, it still is, you know. And I don't know what your experience has been with that, but for me it is consistently heartbreaking. Um and I hate that. You know, yeah, I hate that.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

I'm unfortunate. My daughter had just turned 21 in March and um she joked that she had five shots out of espresso. Oh my lord. She she was old enough, she turned nine, she was nine when I got sober, and she really she saw the very, very end, like the really horrific stuff, cops coming. I mean, it was just really bad. And I mean, it was driving around drunk. I luckily I I didn't have the yet, so I didn't have a DUI. I th I mean by the grace of God, I didn't kill anyone, I didn't hurt anyone. I mean, emotionally, but look, thank God not physically. And so she really saw the final spiral downward and and the the fear and terror of of what I was putting her through and to be rebuild that relationship. And so I've been fortunate that I have a kid who's she's more on the anxiety side and she's learned from other people's mistakes. She's like, no thanks. And so she's just never she'd come to the rooms with me. So she got to hear every talk about she's heard everything. And we work in ministry, so we're very we have recovery meetings that meet here. So she's been involved in this community. She jokes, she's like, Can I go to a meeting at 21 and and say can I get a 21-year chip? Because I never drank. Oh my god. So she's very close and she already that feels home to her, which is important to me. I never told her not to drink, it's her choice. But if she knows if she she's got a 50-50 shot, my does my husband doesn't have that issue. But if if it lands on her and she decides to go down that road, what I didn't have, she knows that those rooms are there for her, and that that's a welcome warm place that if she does, it's there. But she's seen enough of the wreckage in our lives and other people's lives. And in death, we've really we've been through a lot. I mean, it it's the nature of the beast, and so luckily she's learned from that. You know, time will tell now she's 21, she still lives at home, and yeah, you know, but at least for now, that that that's not the thing I have to worry about with her. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

So what I've just learned is that getting sober before I had kids was a mistake. Really? Sounds like. Um, no, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

I'm just teasing. No, I do think that makes it it makes a big difference. So it's like people who grow up with smokers, you know. Like my husband's a smoker and he was always like, I will never do that. And he just hates smoking. You can go either way, right? You can either like turn into kids who like love it or kids who hate it. And um, we did a lot of educating. I still do constantly, regularly, consistently, and um hope it sticks, hope something sinks in, you know. And like you said, I mean, I always feel like I'm I know what is I know what's not in my control, which is most things. And actually that's kind of refreshing because I just know that I can influence, but I really can't control very much except for what I put in my mouth and what I put on my body, and sometimes what comes out of my mouth, but not always. And so there's some peace in that, but also I I know that in five minutes all this could change.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

You know, yeah. Anything I always say, you're an arm's length away, you only have today. So although the time behind me, that's where that vigilance comes in. It's so important to remember you know, you're eligible to it just because those things didn't happen. If I pick back up, I've heard the stories of people who've gone out after long terms of sobriety, and it's so much worse. So for me, I'm like, no, thanks. Um this is so much better to live on this side of it. Oh, sure. Keep the crap.

Warning Signs And Self-Inventory

SPEAKER_00 19:23

But you mentioned already, even though you started out talking about food, and I always think that it's interesting too that we will I I don't know what your experience has been in recovery, but I um I got pregnant, I got sober and then I got pregnant six months when I was sober six months, and then I had three kids in four years, which I don't recommend, but that's what happened. And so it was really a little bit backwards, you know. I was doing all this good work in the beginning. However, then I had all these babies, and so I was focusing on being a mom and like some of that stuff that really needed to be attended to was like halfway, but like wasn't fully being attended to. And so I had what I consider or I call my first sober bottom at like year four, you know, and so I was like at the bottom, you know, here I am, like kind of at the bottom of the barrel, like ready to just you know, kill myself again or be go back out. And you know, what was great is like you know, I knew what to do, and I luckily I picked up the phone and called my sponsor and they were like, Oh yeah, we've you know, we've been waiting for you. Yeah, and so that's good. Um and all that to say that um we we never really arrive, you know. We don't really arrive, we're all under construction at all times until we die, I think, right? So we're constantly working on something. So I think I lost my train of thought for a second, but then when you I just reminded when you said vigilance, um, that really stuck out to me because you know, we we and if you want to be well, if you're not a sober woman listening to this, or you just want to be a well person or you've struggled with mental health issues, um oh, I think what I was gonna say was is we will find I will find a way to make myself unwell. Me too. So when I'm in my bottom, right? Like COVID for us was really, really tough with three teenagers and mental health stuff and like just craziness. And I um started using food. Like I was like at the Chick-fil-A getting my milkshake all the time, and I was like gorging myself, satisfying escaping my life through you know, sugar and food, and and it was really detrimental to my health. Like, I know better. I've studied natural wellness. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

I can 100%. I know when I could like you, you're like, why same thing when you're drinking? Like, why am I doing this to myself? But I don't know how to why can't I stop? It's a because we just want some relief, right? Exactly. Escape holicism, you know, is really what it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

And we'll find a way, whether it's through shopping, whether it's through exercise, whether it's through men, whatever the thing is. Um, so we just be vigilant constantly about like, you know, what's going on with me. And so I'm curious about I'm curious to ask about for you, like what are how how do you what are your signals? Like, how do you know if you're kind of starting down that path of like uh not being not well? You know, um how do you know? Um here, yeah. My power just went out. Oh, okay. I was like, I lost you. Yeah, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

So yeah, wonderful Florida. The power went out. So um yes, but I have a hot spot, so I'm good to go. Yes. Um let there be light. Let there be light.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

So I was just saying that like as a matter of being vigilant and like understanding these things about ourselves that we know now. Um what are the what are the triggers or the warning signs for you? How do you know when you're slipping down that path, like when you're not well?

Neurofeedback Guide And Brain Training

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah, a lot I I find the repetitive behavior that where I feel same thing. Like I'm when I'm I'm in I I have a coach, I still work at it, but I know when I'm becoming obsessed with something, when I start putting something before my normal responsibilities way too often, or my husband's like, Did you hear me? I mean, luckily, my I have I have very blunt daughter and husband. They're very happy to remind me when I'm veering off. They're kind of like my guardrails. Um, but sometimes it's internally where I the same thing, maybe shoe, you know, I follow call it shoes, booze, or handbags. Like if I find myself obsessing into something that is taking my time away from what it is I'm supposed to be doing. Same thing with food. Like I'll get into new routines. Even if for a while it was Menchie's frozen yogurt, I'm like, why do I every time I get gas, I need to get yogurt? I was like, holy cow, I'm doing it again. Where I'm creating a new habit. And so I have to catch myself in that where I'm like, why, you know, the same, like the same weird pattern. Same thing with like getting obsessed with weight loss competitions. I gain this the same 20 pounds, lose the same 20 pounds, gain the same. Oh my, I've won and lost so many competitions with the same 20 pounds as I'm I had to, I had to literally step away. And I'd get these challenges in my email and unsubscribe. I'm like, I just have to do it for the sake of doing it, not because I'm gonna win a prize at the end of the day, because I was damaging my health going through those cycles over and over again. So it's a lot of self-inventory, like so having those insurance policies. I would I share my story at my church every year. I'm like, if I'm at Staples more than I'm in my office, call me out because I I should be in my office, not you there. Okay, sorry. Oh technical difficulties. I don't know where I left off. That's okay.

Food Addiction And Balance Without Perfection

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Hey, it's me, Shelby. Have you ever wondered what's really happening in your brain during recovery? Are you ready to take control of your anxiety, sleep better, and finally feel focused and confident? I want to introduce you to a game changer that's transforming women's recovery. Remote neurofeedback therapy. I want you to think of this as a personal trainer for your brain. It's helping you build new neuropathways right from the comfort of your own home. So if you're dealing with anxiety that just won't quit, if you have ADHD that's making life chaotic, or sleep issues that leave you exhausted, neurofeedback could be your missing piece. It's science-backed brain training that works with your natural healing process, helping you regulate emotions and build lasting confidence. The best part is you don't need to add another appointment to your busy schedule. My remote neurofeedback program brings professional guidance and support right to your living room. Do you want to learn more about neurofeedback therapy? You can go to my website, www.shelbyjohn.com, to download my free guide. Is neurofeedback right for you? Together we'll create the calm, confident future you that you deserve. That's www.shelbyjohn.com. Take the first step towards training your brain for lasting change. You just said, you know, if you were at Staples more than you were in your office, which I can relate to. I feel like I developed a new, I don't, I guess it's fairly new. Um so I've had like these kids, you know, my kids have transitioned a lot lately, you know. Like we I had one, you know, my oldest went off to college, then they a year later the second one went off. Now I've got one graduate. There's a lot going on. And every time they leave, it just hasn't gotten any easier for me. I just very, very hard and emotional. And so I started like making things, like making things is like my um my coping skill. And so it could be like sourdough, or it could be like, yeah, I decided I wanted to start making clay jewelry. I'm like, what are you doing? And um, or like cards for people, you know, I just start like making stuff. And so then this last time in August, I was like really into bad way, and I started ordering stuff on Amazon and I'm like getting all this. I'm like, I'm gonna make this jewelry. And you're like, girl, like you're running a bit, like you're not gonna like that's just not a good idea. But I was like, my whole kitchen table was full of crap of like I mean, it's all great stuff, and it's all fun and wonderful, but like I also I'm starting to expand my practice. Like I was expanding my practice, trying to hire people. It just wasn't a good time, but I was just emotionally so hot mess, like I couldn't manage myself. I mean, I was managing myself, and frankly, I would choose that over like drinking or using or eating myself to death, I guess. But um yeah, it still is an indicator, right? Of like what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

It reminds, yeah, and the disease is there, like I said, it it seemed root different branch, it will channel itself somewhere else if I'm not careful, and that is the most important thing. That's where I have to I have to be vigilant about. I mean, because food addiction for me, I think that was so much harder because we can live without alcohol, you can't live without food. Exactly. And so you're in a battle every single time you have to make a decision of what goes into your mouth. And that for me, that has been the harder like thing to overcome than just the alcohol. Because alcohol, I'm like, great, you're fine, you have your glass, I don't care. Like, but to drive past either fast food, yeah, you're literally you can't not eat, there's no abstinence in that. And so that has been so I mean, I have to really look at it. And I work with my coach consistently and and think about, okay, same type we have the five things, like why am I eating? I mean, it so it translates in everything else that I'm doing. You know, why am I doing this for emotional? Or, you know, that healthy balance has just been, I've had to be so vigilant about it and not, and then also not become obsessed with the obsession of controlling my food. Yes, because that becomes an addiction of itself. And so it just it is insane how our brains are wired that we, you know, you have to give like these different versions of yourself in your mind, and they're always battling each other. It's like keeping that addiction version of ourselves just in check at all times, like having constant toddler in your brain. Like, no, you cannot have a candy bar on your way out of the grocery store, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

You're so right. And you're I love the questions. My that's my favorite tool, I feel like, and something I talk about in my practice constantly, and I use all the time. Like, you know, questions like, you know, what am I afraid of? Or, you know, what is going on with me right now? Like, why am I getting kind of What am I not willing to face? Yeah, like there's something happening in my body, or I and you know, usually by now, like I know about you, but I'm very aware of what's is happening within myself. Like, so then I'll be like, what's going on? You know, like what are you what do you need right now? Like, what's what is happening? Because it or what about this situation is bothering you? That's my favorite. Like, what about this particular interaction is bothering you? You know, it's usually like fear of not getting something we want or losing something we have, and those kinds of questions. Like, we used to do that a lot with the kids because our kids were super busy, they were athletes, they were always in, you know, summer, you know, there's a lot of decisions to make. And I remember asking saying that to myself, like, what am I doing this for? Like, why am I putting my kid in this camp? Or why do I want this kid to play these two sports? You know, because there was like, you know, we were asking a lot of ourselves with time, energy, and money, and them as well. So it's like, am I trying to keep up with somebody, or are we trying to like make her look good? What are we doing? You know, and so I think those are really important questions that we all need to ask. What is this for? You know, is it is it truly for your personal development and your growth? Is it for your mental health and well-being? Then then great. You know, if you can honestly look at yourself and like your decision making and those and those are the answers, I think that's wonderful. But yeah, I think a lot of times when we dig deep, deeper, and then we go down, down, like, okay, well, what is that for? What is that about? Why is that bothering you? And further and further, we get to those like kind of deeper core beliefs that give us a lot more clues about what's going on, you know.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

It could be like it's like if I don't know if you've done the why exercise like five times, like why, but then why? But what same, yeah. I when you get to last one, you're like, oh my gosh, okay, there it is. And but for us, like I said, you said it was it's life and death. We have to, I know I have to continue on that self-inventory because if it like I said, this stupid, this disease will either it'll find something deconstructive if it's not constructive. And that's a lot of you know, simple tools on a daily basis. Is this something that's that's getting it's or they say is it closer to a drink, further away from a drink? Is it closer to my addiction or further away from it? Is it something that's serving me healthfully or unhealthfully? And sometimes, and I'll make I'm like I'll make the honest decision. No, I'm having this ice cream, I know it's unhealthy, but I'm not gonna get hung up on it, that I'm not gonna get addicted to it. I'm just going to enjoy it and put it down and move on. And even that's a huge, that's been a huge process of learning how to acknowledge it in the moment. And hopefully, like addiction sobriety, that will become second nature where I don't have to face the guilt or non-guilt or identify why I'm choosing that food for that moment. And you know, oh so much work.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

That was so good. What you just said though, and so important. Like I feel like I can relate to that a lot, especially in like my older age, you know. I feel like that's just getting better and better in my older age, right? Being able to like give myself a lot of grace. Now we can like grace ourselves out of like a lot of personal responsibility and like um some other stuff too. But like it's all it is a big part of of the process, right? Being able to look at that and be saying, you know, I'm not a bad person, but I just really want to eat this ice cream. Yes, I know it has cancer-causing ingredients and I'm aware of it. I've studied it, I read that, I read the thing, and I still want it, and so I'm gonna do it. And like being able to just, I feel like just say that and do it is is helpful for me because then I do want to eat the ice cream like all the time, and like I I just I'm kind of coming out of a little bit of a period right now where I've been like not the greatest with some of that and out of completely out of control. And I know that I do come out of it, like yeah, you know, that's the other thing. It's like, but it's gotta be just like anything else, it does have to be like your decision, your timing, your you have to decide. Like, I've had enough. Yeah, you know, I'm sick and tired of this. And sometimes it takes a while. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Well, they we say, like, you have to want more than the other person, like so you know, and that's the thing, you have to want to put in the work to be, and that was where I hit with a lot of the you know, the addiction, the weight loss addiction and comp competition. I had to put my own self-value in place that I'm I want to be healthy for the sake of being healthy for myself.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Because I'm always, you know, we're people pleasers at the end of the day, especially you know, with how we're at least how I'm wired as an addict, is I can't same thing with your addiction. You can't, your alcohol, you can't do it for anyone else. You have to do it for yourself. And so applying that to any other avenue, that was that was so hard to like I'm eating healthy for the sake, not for a weight loss competition, not to make sure that, you know, with all these other things, it has to be because I love myself enough to take care of myself. And that and that's still hard to accept the love for myself. It's you know, it's so much easier to give it to everyone else, but it's so easy to put myself on the back burner and just kind of just and then justify my behavior because well, I'm taking care of everyone else. So forget it. I can eat, you know, go through the drive-thru while I meal prep for everyone else in my family, make sure that they're eating healthy. It's like, yeah, yeah, great. So now now I'm not healthy, they're upset because I'm not healthy, but I'm taking care of them. They're like, what are you doing? All right.

Faith And Letting Go Of Control

SPEAKER_00 33:46

So uh what a crazy rollercoaster. It really is. Like, honestly. I mean, I listen to us talking, even just like then, even though I totally agree with everything you're saying, and I'm I'm right there with you, it just still makes me feel like, man, we are just like nuts, you know? Yeah, um, and I do think it's part of the human experience, though. Yeah, the human experience. I know you've expressed um some comments like about your your faith and you um your spiritual journey, and like that's a huge part of our life too. And I I feel like that has been something that has been a big growth area for me in the last, I would say, three to four years specifically, and um even just even more so just through study and like being in the with the right people, and yeah, and that has been um very life-changing and and I think kind of eye-opening, even more, like even more aligned with um kind of 12-step recovery, because I know there's lots of different kinds of people get sober a lot of ways, more aligned with that than even was before. Like, I feel even more aligned with my spiritual program with 12-step recovery than I ever was before. Um and meaning, like, I just keep I just feel so deeply connected to the fact that like I don't, I'm not in control of all the things. Um, there isn't there's a higher power, and I call my higher power God, and like that person is in control of all the things. I believe that with my whole heart. I've fully invested in that, and so I don't really need to like step in, you know. It is the solution, yeah.

Chronic Relapse And Full Surrender

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Um they're two sides of the same coin for me, is how I've always described it. I can't have one without the other. Yeah, I I'd be dead otherwise. And it's it's so so important for me on that end. And I've even I've joked, like I've resigned from trying to be God. You can have your job back, I don't need it. It's too hard. You're so right. You could you've clearly you know, the difference between him and me is he knows he's not me. I had to learn that the hard way.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

I mean, I think we all do, and or we don't, you know. Yeah. Um, I think that's one of the people in my practice that I was referring to that has been a struggle. And I've talked about it here before, just because sometimes it's just really hard, you know, to watch somebody just consistently this is decades long chronic relapse, um, destruction. Um and still like you know, I remember about a year ago or something when they were at the end kind of of that this particular bout, right? And like they were facing a you know, a legal situation, they got in in trouble. And I mean, they came in and I just sat here and I kind of looked and I just I I said, I don't I don't think there's anything else I can say. You know, like I there's nothing else I can offer you that I have we haven't already done. Now that doesn't mean I'm I would ever give up, but like there's no more knowledge. Yeah. You know, it really does come to a place where like you have to decide like that you and so then things got better. They got like actually quite a bit of sobriety, like six months of sobriety, which is the longest they've ever had. And then this past week um came in and said, you know, I drank. I was and I really was like, okay, man, here we go. You know, this is great, we're doing good work, and then they drank, but a lot of it has to do with you know, step work and facing some of the stuff. And I said, There's a reason why they call it the one, two, three shuffle. You know, people don't want to look at the destruction because it's so painful. But I'm like, is the pain of that is still less for you or more for you than not taking a drink? Like honestly, I'm like, good lord. And yes, I guess it is, but what I said to them was is you're still holding on to stuff, there's still things you don't want to change. And the program says you have to change everything. I know it sounds cliche, but I don't like it either. Nobody really likes it, but like you have to change everything. You're still trying to hang out with your friends, yeah. You're still trying to do this other stuff, you're still not doing, you know, da da. And and and so the results are this, you know. And that's the insanity. And I'm like, why don't you just try to like go all in? Like, and uh, there's a humility there that's just not there, it's not turning over yet.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Well, I said, you know, complete honesty is really the key. You have to get honest with yourself and until you're ready to look at it. For me, it was enough to know, okay, do I really how much more damage do I want to cause that I have to clean up? I this it was already hard enough. Like we lost a business. I mean, I I luckily didn't lose my marriage, but right now it I had enough consequences that it was like, really, do I need to clean up more than I've already the mess that I've already made? And that kept me from going back. It was like, okay, this is this is enough, like internally, everything else. But and same thing, I have a chronic relapser. I've you know, woman, she was amazing. Like CFO, I mean, you couldn't on paper have a better life than what I mean, the full American dream to the highest of level. And I I've lost kind of how many times a rehab, I've it finally all the gets divorced, lost her kids. She has to be a babysat around them. Do you? I mean, literally everything short of death has happened to her. And there was a point at which she could have changed, but she's trying to outthink her way out of the whole thing instead of finally fully surrender. It's like it's almost like the more high achieving you are, the hard you think that you and I did, I was a victim of this in the beginning. I've willpowered my way out of every other broken chain in my family. Why couldn't I do it with this? Because it required a different key that I didn't have. And until you're ready to finally take the key from God and because you can't make it yourself. You have to ask for it, ask for help, surrender, and allow other, you know, allow him in, allow other people in, and finally fully surrender to the disease. You you can't, you don't don't fight with it. It's you're never gonna win. I'm I've seen it so many times to know that that's the truth, you know. To to leave is you can't fight it one-on-one. You have to walk away. And that's the hardest thing for people to understand is that that abstinence is is truly real. You can't, it's plain with fire.

Heather’s Coaching Work And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 39:46

And the smart ones are the worst. Yeah, yeah. The smart ones are the worst, they can intellectualize and rationalize anything, and that's it's the worst. I'm like, you're this is your your own worst enemy. So it truly is um a humbling experience, though. Yes, and we don't like it, you know. No humans, we don't, and we don't have to. You don't have to like it. Do you want to live or do you wanna do you wanna just keep going? And like you get to, you know, you get to do it. Like you're an adult, like you can you can you can continue on um and do that. You get to do that, but um, you're also not gonna have any of the results that you're looking for. Yeah, at what cost, really? Yeah. So what kind of work are you into now? Just share a little bit and then um like people to reach out to you before we close.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Yeah, I've worked, I've done so much in my local community with recovery rooms and just women in ministry I've worked with, uh, and now working full-time in a full sober life and transformation coast. I've coached, got my nutrition and wellness certification and really working, as we've talked about, that whole body, mental, and I've got the church. So if someone is a believer, I can bring a lot of that in. I'm very careful if someone's not there yet. I I respect those boundaries, but really looking at the person as a whole and cleaning up all of those areas to be balanced. So they're no longer living in those extremes. And so I've done a lot in my community and now transitioning online because they're so, you know, to be able to reach. I mean, I was talking to someone in Australia yesterday, I have someone in South Africa, but like there are no limits into how you can help individuals. So I've got an online community that I'm growing, I've got a reset, a sober reset um program. I call it sober boss babes, so that women who are high achieving, learning what sobriety is, even if they're not necessarily in recovery, but learn how to turn down that coping mechanism to channel that energy to being the best version of themselves in a clean manner. Um, and then I've got my one-on-one coaching. So, really, that's my my main focus right now, aside from just being a woman. I'm my husband's pastor, like pastor's wife, like it's I, you know, raising a full, you know, I don't know, you know this, raising an adult child is almost harder than a toddler, you know, because the their decisions are permanent. So, um, but really that's been, and I've been so blessed that my passion, purpose, and what I get paid to do now are so in line. And it wouldn't have happened if I wasn't an alcoholic. And so what I thought was the worst thing that ever happened to me ended up being a miracle in the making, and to be able to be on the other side alive and well, and to share the message to help other people know that there is hope.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

So, where do you like people to reach out to you if they want to learn more?

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Yes, so I've got my website. Uh you can fill out a form there, you can book a free consultation to see if we're the right fit. Also, you can join the community. So, all the links are on my main website. I also have a link trave I can send to you that has all the different avenues, my social media so you can connect with me. I do have my own YouTube channel, so I share a lot of the different angles of my recovery, um, and all the all the different things that I've done in life, sharing different pieces of that. Uh, so website mainly, but yeah, I'll give you the link of every every different touch point to, you know, choose where in the journey you'd like to join me if you're if you're ready and willing.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

So all right, I'll make sure I link that in the show notes below. And so thank you again so much, Heather, for your time. This is a fabulous conversation, and um, I hope our paths cross again soon.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Oh, yes, definitely. It was great. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

This is Shelby John, and thank you for joining me on the Confident Sober Women podcast, where we have conversations with women building lives rooted in clarity, resilience, and freedom. If today's episode resonated with you, be sure to hit subscribe. And if you would, take a few seconds to leave a review and then share it with a woman you know who really needs to hear it. If you're ready for deeper support through therapy, EMDR intensives, or remote neurofeedback at Holistic Living, you can visit our website at holisticliving therapy.com, where we help people rewire their brains for lasting freedom from anxiety, addiction, and trauma. Until next time, uncover the truth, heal beyond the surface, and transform your life. See you next week.