ChiTuckyBourbonBrothers
The “Chitucky Bourbon Brothers” podcast, hosted by Mike Nielsen and Tony Meyers, serves as a delightful exploration of bourbon and whiskey culture, offering insightful reviews and discussions about various bourbons and whiskeys. The hosts share their passion for sipping “brown water,” a colloquial term for bourbon and whiskey, and aim to blend music with their love for these beverages, creating an engaging auditory experience for listeners. The podcast not only provides detailed reviews of different bourbons and whiskeys but also promotes a relaxed atmosphere where enthusiasts can enjoy the nuances of their favorite drinks alongside music that complements the experience.
ChiTuckyBourbonBrothers
Episode 122 - George T. Stagg (2023) with special guest Marc
A 15-year, 135-proof legend on the table with a harmonica legend in the chair—this one hits from the first clink. We invited our bandmate Marc to the studio and opened a 2023 George T. Stagg from the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection, then followed the whiskey wherever it led: into the heart of Chicago blues, the chaos of a second-row Zeppelin show in ’75, and the craft behind carrying a box of harmonicas in every key.
We start with the nose—char, leather, dark fruit, brown sugar—before tackling the palate’s big swing from spice to sweetness and that long, oily finish. Along the way we break down the Antique Collection’s fall releases, why these bottles drop before the holidays, and what makes this year’s addition of a bonded Colonel E.H. Taylor such a buzz. If you’ve ever wondered why “burnt” can taste great in bourbon, how mash bills shape sweetness without wheat, or how to enjoy high proof without nuking your taste buds, you’ll leave with practical tips you can use on your next pour.
Marc’s stories give the episode its backbone: Muddy Waters playing a high school gym, late nights at the Checkerboard Lounge, and the reminder that most classic rock owes a quiet debt to the blues. Our SIP rating (Shareable, Influence, Price) keeps us honest about scarcity and cost: Stagg earns big respect on influence, gets shared only with folks who can handle the proof, and remains a bargain at MSRP but a gulp on secondary. We end the night with a few harp notes, a nod to The Doors, and a toast to opening special bottles with the right people. If you enjoy high-proof bourbon, music lore, and straight talk on tasting, hit play, subscribe, and leave a quick review—what’s your favorite pour for cold-weather nights?
First time. We've never opened or closed a podcast with LEDs uploads. Correct. Correct. Holy cow, what have we been doing? No wonder the listener chip is down. I don't know if it's down. I think it's because we're slacking and releasing. It's not down, we're slacking and releasing, but we should have done we should have let the lead out, as they say a long time ago. How are you, Tony? I'm doing great. How are you? Uh couldn't be better. Shy Tucky Bourbon Brothers, Mike and Tony. Uh, we're gonna drink some whiskey today. We're gonna listen to some Led Zeppelin, but first and foremost, we're gonna slow the music down. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:I really can't slow it down, but I can turn it down. I don't I don't have like the speed thing on this. It's not through a DJ app.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you don't have a little turntable app. I don't have it right here. We have a guest today. Uh Tony and I play music in a band. The band is Blue Sky Highway. Uh, what kind of music do we play, Tony? It's all covered.
SPEAKER_04:I would I would consider it southern rock, classic rock, little hint of blues, some newer favorites, some not newer favorites, newer favorites, but not not tons of new stuff. I mean, Pearl Jam's not really like new.
SPEAKER_03:That is one band we play, so um, of of many. I think we have uh give or take, like 50 cover songs, and uh we've been together for let's call it going on five years. Who cares? It doesn't really matter. And uh at the beginning of this year, a few songs we play need a harmonica.
SPEAKER_04:It did.
SPEAKER_03:And Tom, Tom, the lead guitarist in our band, said, I know a guy. I got more like you know, you got a harmonica guy who's local, and he's like, Yeah, he's local too. I saw him play, and I loved him so much that I asked him if he wants to come over and jam with us, and he's coming over. And we were like, What? Who's this guy? Anyway, he's our guest today. His name is Mark. Mark, how are you, man?
SPEAKER_02:Cheers, doing fine, thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Oh man, good to have you here. And good to be. We've had a few gigs lately where you just I'll say this you really came out of your shell and just killed. Like once the shell was broken through, it was like a dinosaur came out of that shell. You know, like Jurassic Park, you're like all of a sudden, whoa, this guy just well, you had to figure his spot out.
SPEAKER_04:He had to get his spot first, right?
SPEAKER_02:You gotta find it, you gotta find your spot in a song. It could have been the whiskey you gave me, Cody.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_03:But isn't it? I mean, all truth be told, isn't it because you have played music kind of your whole life and um also a lot of live music? Like you've been in in bands and stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, yeah, I've been playing harmonica since uh 12 years old. Whoa. So then that means I've been playing for 20 years. Yes, exactly. Maybe learning we don't we don't do last names and we don't really do age a whole lot unless Tony's making fun of me. Yeah, we're still learning every day. Yeah, that's you know, it's a great uh instrument, the the uh Mississippi saxophone, they call it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I thought when you showed up the first time, I'm like, wow, that's pretty easy. He just has to bring his harmonica. Oh no, he had a whole box. I was corrected. Because a harmonica, they each one has its own key. Correct. Is that right? So, like, I mean, how many keys are there and how many harmonicas do you have? Or I probably have about a hundred harmonicas.
SPEAKER_02:A hundred theory.
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah, because don't you have to have all the sharps, flats on ever on all of them, and then you have, I'm sure, duplicates ones you like.
SPEAKER_02:You could do minors, but you could just do direct just straight uh first position. Yeah. With that said, um it's crazy. You get into a lot of musical, you get a lot of the musical theory here, is what he's getting into. I know I like it. Theoretically, you could play um all the positions on one harmonica. Okay. So there's guys who do that.
SPEAKER_04:Just kind of bounce around. Is that harder? Oh my gosh. Yeah, way harder. Way harder.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, versus 100. There's a guy um uh uh in Chicago uh who does that. You know, there's a lot of really talented people out there. Do you how often do you get to play? Not with just us.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I know you play.
SPEAKER_02:I play with two or a couple bands, and um reggae uh bands more busy during the summer. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. A lot of festivals, Navy Peer, and Do you have to dance when you're playing reggae bands? If you don't dance, nobody dances.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, there we go. I like it. Van, I hope you heard that. You gotta take our band needs to dance, we need a dancer.
SPEAKER_02:It's so true, though. Like it's you gotta take it. We're joking, but I've always aspired to be a dancer. Yeah. Don't we all? I'm working on it. Late at night, you know, get out there. After after you're practicing your harmonica. Yeah, you gotta get the mirror out and you know, see what you see what you got. Shake it.
SPEAKER_03:Is there a uh because people are into their brand of instrument? Is there are are your hundred harmonicas one or two or three of your favorite brands, or are they just like all over the board and you try them all?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, I've tried a bunch of them, but there's endless amounts. The ones I play are Honer Lee Oscars. And I I was introduced those to those by uh actually Junior Wells back 25 years.
SPEAKER_04:Be careful, you're gonna date yourself.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that was when I was added five years. Oh sitting on his lap.
SPEAKER_04:So Mark joins the uh band, and uh he first thing he see he brings, I think you brought you brought some whiskey the first time you were there, and we had some whiskey at practice, and it was instant, uh instant synergy there.
SPEAKER_03:And he he he has since figured out that we know just a little bit about bourbon and whiskeys and but came in not knowing us at all, not knowing our music, our capabilities, and definitely not that we drank or even liked whiskey. Correct.
SPEAKER_02:It's not often you meet somebody with 1,500 bottles of whiskey. Occasionally, well, I I count okay, I count 1200. All right.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you haven't been to Tony's house, and that that almost doubles it.
SPEAKER_05:No, it's not, but it's a lot.
SPEAKER_02:No, and uh the beauty is I know nothing about whiskey and I don't pretend to, but you like it. I enjoy it, yeah. Because every time you're always having a sip with it, the the complexity and how delicious it is, and that's why you're here because we were like, let's get him on the podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Not only are you just fun and crazy interesting, but you like whiskey, bourbon, and which really takes us into what we're doing today. You want to jump into it, Mike? Or you want to? I mean we got a good one today.
SPEAKER_03:So we were we've been meaning to do this for a while. Tony actually was so nice to give this to me uh this past this summer as a birthday present. Um, and uh it's so nice that he gave me a present at all. Uh, because I don't know if I gave him one. Um but he also brought one that is uh, yeah, we'll get to that later. Uh a really great one. And it's been sitting here since July, uh, many months later, and we haven't opened it. I'm like, dude, we just gotta open that and do a podcast. And at the same time, uh we invited Mark. So those two things came together. So we're not drinking this because of Mark, we're drinking this with Mark, if that makes sense. But it is the uh George T Stag, so the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection. This uh happens to be the 2023, so probably guzzled down and very long gone from many markets for a lot of buyers, though you can always go on a secondary, and I would say a bottle like this would probably run um six to seven hundred dollars. The retail on it I checked was I believe 129 if you found it back in late 23 at a liquor store. 125. Yep. Um, but uh something we don't have all the time. Uh 135 proof. Tony again, such a nice guy, said he gave me this one because I love high-proof stuff, and uh it comes in as um a 15-year three month. So I think you guys, we covered it all. Yeah, we don't like stuff just because it's expensive, but we do like the Sazerac company, Buffalo Trace. We do like old stuff and we do like high proof stuff. So really excited, but who knows? Maybe it uh maybe it lets us down. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:No, you know, so this this I didn't honestly realize it was the uh 2023. I actually thought it was the 2024 because I just I don't remember which one which years that I've got to do. That's what happens, Mark, when you have way, way too much. You just but I just went through my proofs and this was the highest proof. I know Mike likes hard higher proofs. This is the one I gave him. But anyway, in looking it up, this is the 2023. And one of the cool things about talking about it now is that you know, the Buffalo Trace 2025, the entire antique collection comes out this month. So on top of uh, you know, this this fantastic uh sip that we're getting ready to have, you know, we can talk a little bit about what's coming out because you know, in time for the holidays is the Pappy world and the Weller world and the st and the antique collection all come together.
SPEAKER_03:Dumb question. Uh, at least I think it's gonna be dumb in the way that you'll have the answer. Uh, but maybe you won't. So if you don't, uh listeners, sorry. But uh do you know why uh these come out in October and why certain things are really? I mean, I know like when Elijah Craig does like uh January, May, and September or whatever. Is it just like it takes them that long to get the production run ready? Or are they on like a certain year cycle where that's why it is? I always kind of I I love it because it's like Midwest, you get cold weather, that's better whiskey drinking weather. Uh it's kind of in time for the holidays, like pre-Thanksgiving. I love a good whiskey on Turkey Day.
SPEAKER_04:Like I was if I was told that the Antique Collection when they started it in 2000, so when it first started in 2000, there were only three bottles in the Antique Collection. Um, the William LaRue Weller, the gosh, you're gonna quit me here. No, this this this joined second. So William LaRue Weller, the Eagle Rare 17, and either Sazurack or Handy, one of the two. I can't remember. All separate. Probably Saz. I'd go okay. And the reason they always came out in the fall is because it's a tradition that all the distilleries have, more or less because the seasonal demand has is always crazy going into the holidays and just like you said, into the cold months. So more bourbon is drank than it's always a timing for barrel selection, and it's that's just for some reason it always does it. Um, this particular George T. Steg came out in 2020. 2000, I'm sorry, 2005 with the other one, with I guess uh handy, because I I I have it, I have the information. Oh, the original, the original.
SPEAKER_03:I thought you were doing the 2023 minus the 15 years that's no, no, no, no. Okay, got it. So they started in uh in 2000, and by 2005, this was one of their which is now six bottles in that line. Sazerac handy. Well, that's new this year, and you're exactly right.
SPEAKER_04:That's a big deal because um they brought in a tailor. What's the tailor? What we'll be talking about is the tailor. Yeah, so this year, for the first time since 2005, they introduced a new bottle to the antique collection, and it's the Colonel Taylor 15-year, four-month, 100 um bonded, you know, 100 proof, and it's gonna be fantastic. I'm I'm I'm hoping to snag one of them. I don't I don't know if I'm gonna turn down a William Louie Weller for it, but I'm gonna be shooting hard for it.
SPEAKER_03:You know how I give you though all those compliments when we're practicing? Sure. Do you hear those sleigh bells ringing for the Christmas present you're about to buy me? A Taylor's real song after Mark, and I know you got some connections. We'll we'll get into Mark's Mark's connections a little bit later, but uh, you know, when Santa comes around, little Mikey needs uh need Taylor bottles. Look, Tony gets me birthday presents, you could get me Christmas presents, and I'll just sit by and drink.
SPEAKER_02:I hear the sleigh drink, the sleigh bells are coming.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I bet. I bet they are. All right, well, Mark, uh you're a listener, so you probably know, but uh first let's cheers to uh to giving this one a little smell, a little nose. I like that the uh the three clinks. Yeah, I know. Usually we haven't had a guest in a little while. Just like sticky icky, right? It's just like how does something smell sticky? Well, buy a bottle of this and you'll know. Like it just it's um lots of char, I would say.
SPEAKER_04:Um dark honey, raisin, lots of oak.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like the fruit. Plum. The fruit turns into like kind of like uh uh not a stone fruit, but kind of like a like yeah, like a soggy raisin or a or a plum. I know you said something. What'd you say earlier? You read somewhere bootstrap or something? What the hell? Someone said bootstrap molasses, and I'm like, I don't know what that is. I go, Mark, do you know what that is? And he's like To me, that's leather. Mark goes, Mark goes, Oh, I smell that. Like, wait a way to go.
SPEAKER_05:That's a one-time smell.
SPEAKER_03:Mark, now don't hurt yourself on this. Because it's 135 proof. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Hmm. You gotta you gotta give it a minute. You gotta give it a minute. It's spicy. What do you think, Doctor Mark? You're you're you got some facial expressions I wish I had on camera.
SPEAKER_05:Just lovely. It's not the facial expression I was expecting. You're gonna be alright. He's gonna be alright. He's shaking it out over there. That reggae dancing's coming out.
SPEAKER_02:This would be good for breakfast.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, well, that's gonna start your day one way.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that is delicious.
SPEAKER_03:Tons of spice, but then kind of ends sweet. Fully engulfing the mouth, so oily, such an oily mouthfeel, I would say. Um, still tons of char that's on the nose. Um tons of age, like you the 15 years fully there. There's no chance you would taste the char.
SPEAKER_04:You can taste the barrel char. Like the oak charness. It tastes like something that was burned. Like it's just been in there. It's got that taste. And then the baking spices, and to me, it it kind of mellows down a little bit to a to a graham cracker almost.
SPEAKER_03:You're a Chicagoan born and raised, Mark? Chicagoland. Um nothing worse when someone burns your pizza, right? No one likes a burnt pizza. No, no, but this is a this is like this has a burnt flavor. Do you like it? Do you taste it? And if so, why do why do we like something that's that has a burnt flavor? That's why I brought up the pizza. Like, there's stuff that has a burn to it that's like disgusting. Throw it away. I never want that again.
SPEAKER_04:Because I think in pizza, the burn stays with it the entire time. The char on this is just one of the small elements of the uh complexity.
SPEAKER_03:I see how Tony's helping you out. That was a question for you, Mark. But Tony, Tony Carry Tony. I couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. I couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_02:Taking some notes, right?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, he's got his left hand out there. Oh, wait, I see a harmonica out there.
SPEAKER_02:Could you bring a little harmonic for us too? No, it's just a paperweight.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, it's a yeah. Is that the one you just keep in your pocket all the time? Yeah, that's that's harmonica number 101.
SPEAKER_02:It's the one instrument you could practice while you're playing uh or driving. That's true. That's true. I guess drummers can.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you're well you're a beat, maybe. Yeah, but I mean, then you don't have both hands on the wheel, isn't that? Stop signs. Stop lights.
SPEAKER_04:No, I try not to do it.
SPEAKER_02:No, it's when you pull over, you got time to kill, you know, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_04:I just play stupid games on my phone. I should get a harmonica.
SPEAKER_02:I just discovered TikTok.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, don't. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yeah, Tony and I Tony and I don't do that.
SPEAKER_02:I got sucked into cat videos.
SPEAKER_05:Oh my god. I do love cat videos. I am not even sure where to go with Twitter.
SPEAKER_03:Sometimes, I mean, it's like you came for the music, you're staying for the whiskey, and now we both now we both like cats, and we like cat videos. Our lead singer likes cats too. He has two of them. See, we just have a lot in common. I love cats.
SPEAKER_04:Great people. They stick, they find each other. They find each other, right? They find each other.
SPEAKER_05:We haven't touched on the finish. Like pigeons. Unfortunately, sometimes it feels like rats.
SPEAKER_04:No, no.
SPEAKER_02:Pigeons.
SPEAKER_04:Pigeons. We like rats.
SPEAKER_03:Do we want to talk finish? Oh, obviously, super long. The char goes away and the sweetness comes in. I feel like it kind of goes from that like raisin y beginning to like an actual fruity uh finish, but and it just lingers and lingers and lingers.
SPEAKER_04:It's a long, I I totally agree with the dark fruit. Like just the fruit fit finite finish is just really good.
SPEAKER_02:I taste fruitiness up front.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Like in the noise. It's very sweet. So I would sweet.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I I I don't know if it's fruit as much as like a honey, molasses, sweet something, but it's super sweet. I I agree. Oh yeah. This is really sweet for a non-weeder. So what a wheater means is that there's no rye in it. So that the second major ingredient is wheat instead of rye. And this is not that at all. This is this is considered, you know, this is there's no wheat in this. This is a corn rye malt. Yes, for sure. I mean, it's an undisclosed mash bill, but they call it the corn heavy with rye and barley. So um there's a bunch of different Buffalo Trace standard mash bills that they put together.
SPEAKER_03:So I don't get the fruit up front. I think it's like sweetness, spicy, raisin-y, brown sugary, and then and then the more sweetness comes in for me as the as the spice kind of lingers. But it's char throughout. It's char start to finish.
SPEAKER_04:I think the very end I almost get like a little bit of that where you were saying that bootstrap, I almost get like a little bit of a leather at the very, very end. Because to me, bootstraps and leather are probably hopefully similar in smell or taste.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, can a bootstrap be made of plastic? I mean, I'm sure it's always not a good one. I mean not a good one. I mean, if it's from China. Uh well, real quick, are we I think we should do not our scale and finite, let's come back to rating the winds.
SPEAKER_04:I actually had some questions about like music, like because you've been around it for so long. And the reason we started with Led Zeppelin was because you, while we were sitting here, you were talking about the show you went, the show you went to in 1975 in Chicago at the Chicago City.
SPEAKER_03:There was a time when the band got together and I wasn't there, and I heard that they're like, holy shit, Mark's got some stories. And I'm I'm I'm bringing I want them to come out now, maybe just a few of them. Like we don't have to get into your deep dark secrets, which I'm sure you know.
SPEAKER_02:Robert Plant was here yesterday.
SPEAKER_04:That's and I think that's why all this came out. Robert Plant was at the Vic last night?
SPEAKER_02:Uh uh bandmate Tom was there.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. He was at the VIC last night. So that's kind of where Led Zeppelin all showed up, and that's how we started texting about it and talking about it earlier. Okay. Tony said something about 1975.
SPEAKER_02:1975. Yeah, that's what you said, right? Second role. Yes. Uh we uh went there with uh like a group of fourteen, fifteen seniors in high school.
SPEAKER_03:And it was uh we looked it up, it was at the Chicago Theater.
SPEAKER_02:Chicago Theater, which is now the United Center.
SPEAKER_03:Correct. Oh no, that's uh Chicago Autodesk Stadium. Chicago Stadium. Okay. Chicago Stadium.
SPEAKER_04:And the reason we started with Black Dog was because you said the only I see he goes, I know they played Black Dog, and I looked up the set list because you know nowadays on the internet you can find anything. So I have the entire set list from that show, and Black Dog was the encore.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it was pretty much snippets up. Dude, it was fifty fucking years ago. Dude, I got the whole show right here.
SPEAKER_02:Holy cow, a lot of debauchery, you know.
SPEAKER_03:People were just falling all over the place and just like a standard Zeppelin show, like people just getting hammered. Just completely messed up.
SPEAKER_02:Everybody was in their own, but I I was behaving myself because I because I was underage, sure. No, I was trying I well, I I I I had a uh a date, you know. Make sure uh I was protective. So were they like MAGA second there was second second row, and then on the right side of us, somebody from the second balcony started throwing up over the balcony. Oh every wave of humanity just rushed towards the stage. A wave of humanity, and it didn't it missed me by a mile, but it was just like, oh my god. That's the worst dangerous. That that's how the show started. But it was quite great music.
SPEAKER_03:So was it a hard ticket to get? Like, I don't I I I love Zeppelin, but I don't know like their the whole time. That's right when they came out, right? Right. 75, like how how many, sorry. Right. Okay. Yeah. So they were like around a good number of years. Does that make it a hard ticket, or did you have connections to get second row?
SPEAKER_02:Or no, you know, what you had to do is wait in line at the local record store. There used to be a record store in Winaka. My gosh, I don't know what it was called. People you wouldn't remember it. Which is where you grew up. Oh that's Mark's cell phone. He broke the rule.
SPEAKER_04:That was the rule. Sorry. We we asked about rules. Yeah, I said I don't think there are any.
SPEAKER_03:Turn your phone off, Mark. It's like church, man. It's like church. Turn your phone off. We're in a we're in a sacred place. All right, keep going. That you went to the record store in Wineka.
SPEAKER_02:When you line up, you line up and you get it, it's all manually.
SPEAKER_03:It's all done.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Did you have to buy the album? Could you call in? Remember the days where you have to call and it would be. I don't think you called.
SPEAKER_02:Perhaps, perhaps.
SPEAKER_04:Ticketmaster? Yeah. No, like you had to literally call a phone number and it would be busy, and you keep calling it like a thousand times with your you had to push all the buttons. There's no redial. This is old school. 75. I mean, shit, dude. That was probably rotary phones.
SPEAKER_05:It was. No, it's way before.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it's definitely house phone, but you know how to use a rotary phone.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I had a rotary phone growing up.
SPEAKER_05:Did you really?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Come on. Same. Same.
SPEAKER_02:You did?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Didn't use it all the time. We're not, yeah. We're older than you think. We also had like the little the little the regular buttons. Uh no cell phones though.
SPEAKER_04:Well, as a cell phones didn't come out until I was until I was a junior in college. To put that in into perspective.
SPEAKER_02:Is that right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Maybe I was. I'm way older than you think.
SPEAKER_02:You might be older than me. Exactly. Why am I the one you're telling me? Son.
SPEAKER_03:So that showed you know, I'll be a grandpa next week.
SPEAKER_02:No way. That's nice. It was nice knowing you. I don't know if you want. I know we're in a dance band, but I don't know if you want a papa band, you know. Oh, papa?
SPEAKER_03:Gramps. Gramps. Well, it might come. You might actually Lee might have you too that. You might you might get some new nicknames out of that. But we'll we'll keep you. We'll keep you for your semiotic pasture.
SPEAKER_05:I'll take care of you. That'll be fine. It'll be fun.
SPEAKER_03:Uh other shows besides the Zeppelin show that uh in your past that are real, you know, have some staying power. They all do, don't they? No, no, I've been to a bunch of shitty shows.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but I could remember even the bad ones. How about you? I could remember. I go to a lot of shows.
SPEAKER_03:I can remember them, but I yeah, it's usually because they're so bad and I want to forget them. But no, usually you go to bands.
SPEAKER_04:So what's your the Muddy Water story? What was that? I heard something about muddy waters.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, you just brought uh uh yeah, I just the the the image that came to mind is b uh uh is Bob Marley and the Whalers 1978 Good show? It was the best so yeah, actually it was uh Is that where the dancing started? It was the first time. Is that where the dance for reggae started? The second date that I had with my wife.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, really? Nice.
SPEAKER_01:So much that's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_05:I love it.
SPEAKER_02:So what about the muddy water story? What are here? Well, he played at Loyola Academy. Okay, and we uh as a senior, I was on a committee to invite an artist, and we had I think we had fifteen hundred dollars, so I think that's what I'm pretty sure that's what we ended up paying him. And there was a couple guys, including myself, were really into blue in the blues, and and next thing you know, Muddy's playing at in the auditorium and in the gym. It was just fantastic. I met him before. Never would happen to that. And I just not anyone. I wish we I wish we'd have like chances to take a photo, but it's in everybody's m memory, and that's that's it, yeah. But I I just remember school should have something.
SPEAKER_03:They had cameras back then, Mark.
SPEAKER_02:No, I mean I we were hanging with him in the green room, it was like a a class. A classroom. And he I remember Muddy sitting at a little desk, and he was a big guy. His hands were like twice the size of mine. And I remember playing a little harmonica for him. Did you? Uh that's so cool. What'd you play?
SPEAKER_04:Uh you're gonna give us a little ref. You're gonna give us a little riff? Give us a little ref. Give us a little ref.
SPEAKER_02:Mary had a little lamb. No way. Come on. This is high school. This is high school. No, I was just starting. I was but I didn't realize he.
SPEAKER_03:Said you started when you were 12, so it was probably like give or take five years later. Yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_04:You were a step above Mary Had a Little Lamb.
SPEAKER_02:Christmas song. Just a little playbells ring. It's an instrument you can't get enough of.
SPEAKER_04:It is, it sounds awesome. But you know, here it is.
SPEAKER_02:Growing up in Chicago, uh it it when I did, it was we were so blessed with the local blues musicians. Yeah. And that that day and year is kind of gone. Now there's just one uh several my you know, several venues, Roses, Kingston Mines, Buddy Guys, Blues Chicago.
SPEAKER_04:How often do you get down to those?
SPEAKER_02:As much as I can, but it's a little truck.
SPEAKER_04:Weekly or a couple of times a month or once a month now, or what are you thinking? Occasionally. Occasionally, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I think when it's cold, you know, maybe once a month.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But uh we should all be down. We should go down. That'd be fine.
SPEAKER_04:I could imagine the connections of people you know.
SPEAKER_02:Well, they're all just great people everybody involved in the blues scene's really cool.
SPEAKER_04:We don't really play a whole lot of blues. We play songs that have a blues kick to them, but we don't play like blues blues. Right. We're definitely more classic rock.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you'd be surprised. You got I mean, it's all b blues, it's just the basic uh most of the songs you play. It's definitely yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, it it's uh quite a quite a great yeah, it it's a it's a uh genre that is easy to get into. You know what I mean? That's it makes sense, you know. I don't know why it's so popular, but not the scene anymore.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Yeah, the scene has kind of gone away. And I feel like that that hasn't really been good for Chicago because that's kind of a big part of their scene. But um, I mean Chicago has so many other things, but uh the blues was something that was like it was like an underground world.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was really it was rather it was rather um dangerous, you know, at times. Yeah, you go into the bad areas. I started hanging out at the checkerboard lounge a lot in the 80s uh because I lived downtown. I'd go there just to see on during the week, and got to know a lot of great blues musicians. That's cool. Yeah, the first the first blues concert was on Sheridan Road here, someplace in Rogers Park or show Hound Taylor and the House House Rockers. And Houndog it was he's a master guitar player and puts on a lot, great lively show. And he actually had six fingers on his left hand, so it used to the uh six fingers. That's like cheating. It is. He had the slide on his pinky, his extra pinky.
SPEAKER_03:So his name was Hound Dog. Hound Hound Six Fingers.
SPEAKER_02:Give me back my wig. You know that song, don't you?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I've heard it. I don't know it, but I know what it is.
SPEAKER_03:All right, we gotta get back to the whiskey. Uh and let's uh I still got a little left, so I can keep the memory going.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I I have to do mine a little bit more from memory because well, I've got like a drip or two left.
SPEAKER_03:That's too bad. Sorry, sorry you overdid it. Um all right, so let's do a little uh let's do a little rating. Uh Mark, we call this the SIP rating. Um that is uh share of shareable influence and price. Um shareable. Um how about this? Now that it's open, yeah. Wasn't really uh just opening uh a good, great, uh also expensive gift uh that easily. Um so now I'm sharing it. Uh influence is the highest level and price is um probably the lowest level because uh it's I yeah, so the I mean it's a great, great brand, but always too expensive.
SPEAKER_04:I mean shareable's hard because these are really hard bottles to get. First of all, they don't make a lot of them. So if you're lucky enough to get one at retail, you know it's it's it's probably one of the ones that you're gonna be showing off in your collection. It really is a bottle like that. Um for me personally, I would share this only with people that I think are really like whiskey or or you know, friends that that I know. I'm not just introducing them to bourbon. This has got too high of a proof for that. Um, influence to me is off the charts. Buffalo Cherries and Heaven Hill are my two favorite uh distilleries from of the old times, they're the classic. They've got so many different versions of bourbon and um and so many different whiskies that are just so good that are classics really. And then price, I mean, if you can get this at retail, so this particular bottle, like Mike said, was$125. The 2024 was uh$149.99. They haven't released the MSRP for the 2025, but I'm assuming it's gonna go up to you know, probably$175 to$200. It's still well worth it. I think they're just trying to take some of that secondary money, put it in their pocket up front. Um secondary, I don't know. Mike knows the secondary prices, and that's where I'm at.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like I said, probably uh probably give or take, six, six fifty, seven hundred bucks, depending on uh where you're where you're buying it. Uh you did a great job there, Tony. And um uh we're gonna round it out with Mark. What do you think? Is it shareable? No pressure.
SPEAKER_02:It's absolutely shareable. Thank you very much. I'll remember you when I look at this bottle tonight.
SPEAKER_05:You take it home with you? Good luck taking that out of here. Really appreciate you are not getting anywhere. Mike bites you for that to the door with that.
SPEAKER_02:It's delicious. I and and I would give it a 10 out of a 10, honestly.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you're jumping ahead, but that's close to our next thing. So we do this thing called the sip rating. Oh no, but it's only out of five. And we uh we're not gonna lie, but then we don't we don't really get higher than a four and a half very often. But there are some specials because you always have to give yourself room for something to be better in the future.
SPEAKER_03:Um, real quick. Uh-oh. Um I messed up. I skipped something. No, I was gonna talk about we kind of touched on it piqued my interest to look it up. Um early years of this, they made about 10,000 bottles. Um, then it jumped to about 20,000 in 2010. These are estimates, uh, about 37,000 in 2018, and that's the last number I can get. So let's say they made like still 40,000 bottles is not so a case in a case in whiskey is a six-pack.
SPEAKER_04:So, I mean, if you're doing the quick math, you know, you're doing 40,000 bottles into six packs. I mean, that's it's not as many cases as you think.
SPEAKER_03:And this is uh what I do know is of the antique collection, uh, this believe it or not, five, six hundred bucks is uh a reasonable price compared to some of the others that go into the like thousand or thousands range. I think that's because uh they m always make more of it for whatever reason more George T stag than they do uh of some of the other lines.
SPEAKER_04:That makes sense. I mean, we're talking 7,000 7,000 cases.
SPEAKER_02:May I ask you a question? Yeah, such a d uh just a such a delicious bottle of a whiskey here. What's the best way to drink it and appreciate it? Do you you want to let just little sips at a time or do you like it?
SPEAKER_04:I think everybody does it a little different. I think that with the Glenn Karen glass, which is the glasses that we're drinking out of, these funky shaped ones, uh, I I think that these these glasses are great because you can swirl. They don't it doesn't splash out, you can kind of keep it moving, let a little air into it. Uh personally, I think you need to take um the first sip, you have to kind of chew on it a little bit. Mike, Mike does actually a better job at it than I do. And then I I I always say you need three quick sips to really get the flavor out of it. But um when you chew it, it usually brings all the flavors out, but it'll also bring all the spice out. So you gotta be careful. You have to kind of get used to that. Um, and then in regards to adding water to it or add ice to it, that's all personal preference. I I don't I don't disregard anybody drinking whiskey the way they want to drink it. I would I would I would tell you that if you're gonna buy something this nice, don't mix it with anything besides water. Um probably wouldn't taste good, honestly. I mean, but if you're trying to put like coke in this or ginger ale or you know, people put different mixers in in whiskies, and I I do it with makers mark, so I'm I'm not like this quality, but not at this quality. To me, if you're getting above what I consider mixing bourbons, and Mike will have a lot to say about this if we let him go, but it that's you know, it's it's similar. I don't know. I just think that you get these better bourbons and you should try them. I like to try them neat, and then if uh if they're a little too spicy, add a add a add one cube.
SPEAKER_02:Do you are you supposed to let it air out or anything like that when you pour it into the glass?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I kind of spin it around and kind of give it some air, whether that uh most people say it's not a wine, that doesn't matter. Wine ages in the bottle, whiskey does not age in the bottle. Once it's in the bottle, it's done aging, unlike wine. Wine gets better with age, uh, even though they're both in glass. But um, I would say the probably most important thing to me, other than all the points Tony touched on, is uh how you kind of how you drink it in the way of how you pour it into your mouth. I think it's important not to take too much, like you're taking a shot. Um, usually we pour about maybe a half of an ounce in a glass, and I probably sip a half of an ounce a good close to ten times. So think about how little that sip is, because you're just kind of it's all there whether the sip is really big or just like almost like a droplet, it's still gonna get all over your mouth and do the whole thing. But pour it either onto your tongue, or I prefer kind of like into the bottom of my mouth, so I can kind of kind of swish it around from there. But uh, I would say that's the most important because especially this high proof, the kiss of death, and it's done and over, is if you take it like a shot, or if you take it take it right to your throat, that is it, it's it's over. You're gonna hate it, it's gonna hurt, uh, and you're gonna burn. And every and you're done for the day, more or less, if not longer, because you can't, you're no longer gonna taste anything. It's it's you're done because you're tasting buddy. You're in pain.
SPEAKER_04:Once you burn, once you burn up your taste buds, like we always say that we can do like these different tastings, and we we're lucky enough to have people over here and do some tastings here and there, and you know, some blind tastings and kind of, hey, what do you get? What do you what do we get, you know, type of somale type stuff. But what what you have to notice quickly is that after two or three different shots of it, you're it's it's like you don't have any left. Like your taste buds are burned.
SPEAKER_02:Is it uh would you would you want to eat something while you're drinking?
SPEAKER_04:Or just a lot of people say that chocolate brings out different flavors, um, but I don't think that there is something that like makes it better.
SPEAKER_03:I think it whiskeys whiskey and um I would stick to a dessert uh or something sweet more than something savory. Like I'm not having a whiskey with a you know a burger and fries or a pizza or anything like that. Again, preference. If you're like, hey, I want my favorite whiskey with my favorite meal, and your favorite meal is that, then that's what you do.
SPEAKER_02:You drink you'd have this quality of whiskey with dessert.
SPEAKER_04:I'd have it with a like a like a full steak or something like or right after. To me, it's to me, whiskey. I I drink more like before and after meals. I don't usually drink whiskey with meals. It's probably a better way to put that. Yeah, right. Yeah. Not like I just in general, like I just don't drink whiskey. Like even when I'm having dinner at home, I don't I don't I usually have the sip either before or I have a sip after or both, just not during.
SPEAKER_02:Now, is color important or the way like you know, have legs on the glass or anything like that?
SPEAKER_04:I don't think that the legs matter. That just might mess with the viscosity of it, where what Mike said earlier that this is very oily. Not all of them are oily, some of them are it's not oily to the to the look, like with the legs, even though you can see legs. I see you looking at it.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:It it's oily the way that your mouthfeel is.
SPEAKER_03:Um and yeah, color is definitely gonna have to do with age. This has been in age in a barrel. It's been in a brown wood barrel getting black char all over it. So it's gonna have uh I looked up because I don't really get into the colors because I don't really care what something looks like. I want it what it tastes like and smells like and all that good stuff. Um they call it chestnut, which would be, you know, not crazy dark, but darker than um, you know, a light, a lighter color wood, like a like a pine or something like that.
SPEAKER_02:So the older it is, the darker it is.
SPEAKER_04:That and also the char of the inside of the barrel matters. So they they burn the inside of the barrels at different levels. So the higher the level, the more char, which typically brings out darker juice. But if the longer it's you're exactly right though, the longer and typically the longer, the darker, but some of them will start darker because of the char. What's the oldest whiskey you had? So I've had some 25-year-old uh rhetoric, and I it's really oaky. I I'm not a huge fan. I Mike and I have talked about this a bunch, and I I for me personally, I like a high corn mash bill, um, meaning over 70% corn. I'm a fan of wheaters, um, not afraid of of um of rye, which means our second ingredient is wheat over rye. And then for me, I like to have a proof um between 105 and 115 and probably a 10 to 12, 10 to 14 year age statement. What do you think, Mike?
SPEAKER_03:I forgot the question.
SPEAKER_04:Nice.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, oldest whiskey uh would be a scotch. Uh, probably like a 30, I might have had a 40-year-old scotch, but I don't really remember. So let's just not even go with that. I would say we might have a 30-year-old scotch here. They're there's some old bottles. They're not uh inexpensive and they're not kind of uh an everyday drinker, but yeah, usually old stuff, uh at least with bourbon, um bourbon whiskey as opposed to scotch whiskey. Scotch whiskey, you can take it uh a little bit further. You go past, I don't usually like bourbon whiskeys past like 20. And sometimes they did something different just because it picks up so much of it tastes like wood water, it tastes like char water, it loses like it's just it's almost like it's like molding in the barrel. It's not, but so much evaporation. Yeah, well, it's so much evaporation to it. Yeah, there's a window, there's a life to it of where um there's a time frame of when you know the heat and the the the cold and warm and the cold and the temperatures and all that kind of stuff get to it, and when it goes too long, it's just like starts to lose for flavor or just come with one remote flavor, which would be like a wood, an oak, or a char.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like the papys. Pappy has a 23-year-old and a 20-year-old, a 15 and a 12 and a 10. And I like the 10, I like the 12 rather, the 12 and the 15 the most. And it's I think for me it just gets too oaky. But everybody's got their own palettes. Like again, just because I say that doesn't mean anything. Like you get what you like. It's like I like steak. You might like seafood more than steak. It it doesn't matter, it's what you like. You know, it's not that it's it's it's that, I mean, it's it's obviously different, but you know what I mean. Like it everybody's palettes are different. So anyway, let's give us a rating because we've been on here for a bit.
SPEAKER_03:I'm super ready. I'm super ready. I'm so ready. Here's what I'm gonna say. Here's what I'm gonna say. All right, I'm docking it points because it's pretty, pretty gosh darn char heavy. I'm going with a um uh four and a quarter. Ooh. And uh because I I actually poured myself a little bit more because I want this to be a happy birthday. Yeah, I want this to be my daily drinker. Like I want I want this every day. So I'm like, it's high up there because it's like the proof and the sweetness and the age, uh, all the all really great things. It's just not a daily drinker because they run out of it. They run out of it and it gets really super expensive, and I like too many cheaper whiskies uh that are that are close enough to this. So anyway.
SPEAKER_04:Four and a quarter. Four and a quarter, what you got?
SPEAKER_02:Five scale mark, five scale to five. Not worthy to really rate it. You're not gonna rate it, but I would say that it is uh probably one of the top two whiskies I've ever tasted. Oh, I like it. We gotta so it's hard to say. Do you have the other in mind?
SPEAKER_03:If you don't, that's fine.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I kind of oh he loved that the foolproof.
SPEAKER_04:I gave him a weller foolproof, and we we I brought that bottle of weller foolproof.
SPEAKER_02:It was really delicious, too. So I you know, that's completely different.
SPEAKER_04:It's a little lower proof, 115 or 16 proof, and it's it's uh weller, which just means it's weeded. Really good very, very good. It's one of those are that's that's really one of my favorite favorites.
SPEAKER_02:As far as paying that kind of off-market price and whatnot, I would say 4.5.
SPEAKER_04:4.5?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was a little more affordable.
SPEAKER_04:I was gonna go a little lower, unfortunately. I had this I had this at uh I had this at a 375. And I just I just thought it's a four at least. I just thought it was really uh it was really oaky for for this one for me. I don't know what it is. I felt like it's a lot of oak, it's a lot of chalk. I totally respect that actually. And I just it to me, it wasn't I mean, I it could go to a four that that 375 to four mark, I just can't get over a four with it. I feel like I get a lot of these similar flavors with a lot of higher proof stuff, and I was just expecting a little more, and I just didn't get it this time.
SPEAKER_03:Hmm. Well put. Totally respect it. Um can we can we get a few harmonica notes as we're going out here, Michael? I can. Oh, but I can I can do something. Why don't you start using some other stuff? Oh, that didn't take long.
SPEAKER_04:Oh I bet I bet you know this song. I bet you know this song. I bet you could help us put it in.
SPEAKER_03:We take care of the whiskey so you can focus on with whom you share it. Today we're sharing the George Cheese Deck 2023. I loved it. Tony liked it, and Mark also loved it. Good.
SPEAKER_02:It's a pleasure being here. Thank you both, dude.
SPEAKER_03:You're super welcome.
SPEAKER_02:Take a note.
SPEAKER_03:Loved having you, man.
SPEAKER_02:Love being here. We're going out to Roadhouse Blues by the doors. Happy holidays, everybody.
SPEAKER_04:Have you seen the door? Oh.
SPEAKER_02:But I heard that uh Tim Wilson is still alive.
SPEAKER_03:I could have died of the body. Ah, good happening, Mark. Good afternoon, Joni.
SPEAKER_02:Holiday, everybody.
