EP73: Tom Douglas: The Road to Becoming Seattle’s Food Legend

Join us for a captivating episode as we sit down with Seattle culinary legend Tom Douglas. A James Beard award-winning chef, restaurateur, author, and media personality, Tom takes us through his remarkable journey from his early days in Delaware to becoming a household name in Seattle's food scene. Tom shares how his love for food was shaped by his childhood influences and the diverse immigrant cuisines he encountered along the way. He opens up about his passion for cooking, the inspirations that fueled his culinary creativity, and the challenges he faced as he built his empire of successful restaurants. In this episode, Tom also talks about his entrepreneurial ventures, including the creation of his beloved 'Rub with Love' spice line and his tireless advocacy for sustainable wild salmon fisheries. Plus, he offers a behind-the-scenes look at the Hot Stove Society, his unique culinary school and a radio show, where food enthusiasts from all walks of life come together to learn, cook, and share their love for great food. Whether you're a fan of Tom's Restaurants, a budding chef, or simply someone who loves a good story, this episode is a must-listen. Get ready to be inspired by Tom's deep connection to Seattle, his unwavering commitment to exceptional cuisine, and his infectious enthusiasm for all things food.

IG: HotStoveSociety
Website: https://www.tomdouglas.com
The Breach:https://www.amazon.com/Breach-Russ-Busch/dp/B00YQTCW6G

Season2

Transcript

Michael Dugan: 0:52

I'm thrilled to introduce our guest on Voice Chefs Seattle culinary icon, Tom Douglas. He's a James Beard Award-winning chef, restaurateur author and media personality. Join us as we explore his journey, passion and purpose. Tom, welcome to the show.

Tom Douglas: 1:10

Oh, it's nice to be here. Thanks for having me. Good to see you at the radio show last week.

Michael Dugan: 1:14

That was fantastic. I wanted to get started and kick it off with how was your palate shaped in childhood? Are there any foods you loathed or any foods you loved?

Tom Douglas: 1:23

Well, one food that I loathe to this day is the red beets. I can choke down the gold ones and I love the greens, but for some reason the beets themselves are just not my cup of tea. Oh. No, nothing really. I'm a pretty good eater and I haven't missed too many meals in my life. My, my whole childhood was shaped on my grandmother, who was a terrific cook and lived in an apartment a few blocks from us. Had us over for dinner every Friday night. My favorite part about her was she would cook in her little house coat all day long and then right at five o'clock she would disappear into the, into her bedroom, in her apartment, and then come out at 5 30 with her pretty dress on, her bright red lipstick on, ear rings. I have a highball. So she's the one who taught me how to sip Jack Daniels and to slug a Pabst Blue Ribbon. That was her, those were her two beverages of choice.

Michael Dugan: 2:10

Of

Tom Douglas: 2:11

course, in my house, my mom, they just didn't drink. So it was such a thing. My grandmother, we went, she had butter instead of margarine.

Michael Dugan: 2:18

Oh,

Tom Douglas: 2:19

she had liquor instead of, iced tea. And she had beef bourguignon, which was very exotic.

Michael Dugan: 2:25

I think I grew up with steakums. So yeah. So beef bourguignon that's pretty impressive actually.

Tom Douglas: 2:31

She, she was married to an exec on the Santa Fe railroad. And at the time in the forties, Or so he was 18 years older than her. I think she got married and he was 36. She was 18. And at the time, some of the finest dining in America was in the Harvey houses along the rails and the train cars themselves, where they had proper waiter service, white jackets, take white tablecloths and eat in the fine dining cars of the Santa Fe railroad. Wow.

Michael Dugan: 2:56

So did you end up cooking alongside her? Is that kind of where you got your passion for food?

Tom Douglas: 3:01

No, not really. It's where I got my passion for process. But I probably cooked alongside of my other grandmother, who's more of a baker.

Michael Dugan: 3:09

Okay.

Tom Douglas: 3:10

Yeah, more. And also my mom cooks three meals a day, every day for all of us. So I'm one of eight. Wow.

Michael Dugan: 3:15

Yeah. My dad had a big family. I think it was nine kids. My family, my brothers and sisters are four kids. And my dad was raised up. In New York and you were raised on the East Coast, right? Is it Delaware?

Tom Douglas: 3:25

Yeah, I was born in Cleveland, raised in Newark, Delaware, home of the University of Delaware Fighting Blue Hen.

Michael Dugan: 3:31

Awesome. So how did you get from Delaware to Seattle? What was that journey like? And it was in your teenage years, I think.

Tom Douglas: 3:37

Sure. I was intense on not going to college, which my mother never really forgave me for. I was her lone black mark on her record

Michael Dugan: 3:44

in

Tom Douglas: 3:45

a good way. It was just bothering her that she had one child that didn't go to college. I was She's coming out of high schools, 17

Michael Dugan: 3:52

18.

Tom Douglas: 3:53

Didn't want to go to college. Of course, I went to a Catholic high school where everyone went to college. That was one of the very few who didn't.

Michael Dugan: 4:00

Wow.

Tom Douglas: 4:01

And so my guidance counselor said, What are you interested in? And at that point I was working in a liquor store where we would have little wine tastings, The team would. I wasn't allowed. I was only 16, 17, but I would anyway. And so I just got into the whole wine thing probably earlier than a lot of kids my age who were more beer heads and Annie Greensprings and Boone's Farm and things like that. So we talked about that and she said I can get you a. like, not an interview for a job, but working, following a guy around Mr. Ferdinand Weiland he was the F and B at Hotel DuPont in Wilmington, Delaware, by far the best restaurant. In the state of Delaware. Wow. And so I did an hour and a half little walk around with him. So the whole operation and then he offered me a cook's helper's job

Michael Dugan: 4:48

at a

Tom Douglas: 4:48

buck an hour at the end of it buck an hour. That was minimum wage at the time.

Michael Dugan: 4:54

I know. I know. Wow. Oh, my gosh. That's how we got started. And then what brought you to Seattle?

Tom Douglas: 5:00

I was ready to see the world. I was 18 years old.

Michael Dugan: 5:04

Okay. 350.

Tom Douglas: 5:05

I had my car. It was a Chevy station wagon. So there's plenty of stuff to put all my belongings in. And I said goodbye to my girlfriend. My dad gave me 150 bucks on the way out the door as he did all his kids. And just said adios, see you in a year. And then I never went back. I ran out of money in Seattle. That's when motel sixes were 3. 39 a night. Wow.

Michael Dugan: 5:24

I what was your journey like to becoming a chef food influencer really for Seattle and the U. S.

Tom Douglas: 5:30

I probably wouldn't have been able to have this journey if I wasn't in America. I'll start with that because you have a license in our country to be who you want to be and cook what you want to cook. Whereas if you were. French or Italian or Vietnamese or Chinese. You're pigeonholed into that particular cuisine. The American chefs have this weird kind of food freedom that, to borrow from other cultures and to enjoy what you enjoy. If I want to cook Vietnamese tonight, I cook it. I, at least I try, right. I'm not saying it's as good or better. And they, but it's something that you're free to do in our country, both Physically, obviously, people in Italy could do the same if they chose, and they just don't think that way. At least they didn't back in the day. And even today, with all the Latinos in our kitchen and stuff, if you offer them, a fancy meal, they'd much rather have something that, They made themselves very Mexican rather than a fancy meal from one of our restaurants. That's just the way it is.

Michael Dugan: 6:24

I can understand that.

Tom Douglas: 6:25

Anyway. So that's part of my history is learning from every immigration situation that happened in my cooking career. Probably the biggest influence was the Lao Vietnamese, Cambodian. Immigration in the late 70s. I discovered fresh herbs like nobody's business in salads and green leaf wrapped spring rolls. And just all sorts of deliciousness that I had never really seen before. My extent of Asian cooking back on the East Coast was going to Grace's diner on the New Jersey Turnpike and having Chinese egg rolls, that's or sweet and sour pork with on a road trip with my dad or something like that. That's true. I never saw anything like or tasted anything like that wave of immigration that happened. And I always have incorporated those kind of flavors into my own menus.

Michael Dugan: 7:11

Can you give an example of a dish like that?

Tom Douglas: 7:13

Sure, of course. Come sa vang sau tap. Was a Cambodian prep cook slash dishwasher who came over in the first wave of immigration after the Vietnam war, it wasn't until later that I realized that he had crossed the Danang river and under gunfire and picked up English really fast about his wife would bring him in Vietnamese or Laotian style spring roll and with a whole little container of. Peanut vinegar and some plastic bag full of green leaf lettuce leaves. And that was what she would send him to work with every day for his lunch. And so one day I said, I want to try one of those and tried it. Loved it. The whole concept, my menu was global at the time. And I said I want to put these on the menu. So his wife started making them for me. She used to make 250 a week. Until we. Sold out of those in a couple of days. And then it was 500 a week and it became a staple on our menu. And that's how that, I'd never really made them before. Plus I'd always had the big Chinese egg rolls, which are very different than the little crispy spring rolls, right? Like much better. And so that's, that became a fixture on the menu at cafe sport was Comsa Bon Southups wife's spring rolls. And I if there was a credit. To me would be, I recognized a good thing and went for it.

Michael Dugan: 8:29

Definitely.

Tom Douglas: 8:30

He taught me how to make them. I've always had the ability to recognize deliciousness and then try and copy it.

Michael Dugan: 8:35

Yeah. Your food is amazing.

Tom Douglas: 8:37

I have no formal training. That's how I learned.

Michael Dugan: 8:39

Absorbing and listening.

Tom Douglas: 8:40

Yeah. I didn't go to culinary school.

Michael Dugan: 8:42

But there are certain aspects that I loved, and there are certain aspects that I do things a little different now. I'm curious about the restaurants that you've opened. Can you talk a little bit about what was the first restaurant that you opened?

Tom Douglas: 8:54

Of our own? Because that's not the seminal restaurant. The seminal restaurant for me was Cafe Sport, which is where I was hired as sous chef.

Michael Dugan: 9:04

Okay.

Tom Douglas: 9:04

And by the time we got it open, the chef had quit and I became the chef. We were open a year. I became the chef and general manager because the general manager got fired and because we weren't making any money and for me, when you became the chef and GM, you married two sides of the business. Now, all of a sudden I'm in front of the house in charge of waiters, finances. And so I had said when they offered me, There's GM job. I said, well, if I'm going to take the GM job and I'm going to stay, then I want a percentage of what we make. And of course they were losing their ass at the time. And they said, no problem. I said, I'll give you the first 5, 000 a month that we make, but I want 50 percent of what we make after that. And they just looked at me like I was an idiot because They'd never even make 500, much less 5, 000. I could see what the gym was doing wrong and how little she was working and how overstaffed we were. And I could see a lot of things that were going on that I had no control over and they said, check that deal. And so I did. And within three months we were profitable and within six months I was making bonuses. And within the year I was the highest paid chef in Seattle. So to me those are all things that help you become who you are because you can be the best cook in the world. But if you can't run a product cost, if you can't run a business, then you're shit out of luck. You're running out of business and I don't care how good a cook you are. So you need to marry the two, right? You need to be able to lead a brigade, have a good product cost, have delicious food, I have a nice rent structure that makes sense for the business, all that stuff has to be in line. And to this day, that's what I do when I open a new restaurant is I look at the location, I look at the rent, I think about who the chef is going to be, what menu mix needs to happen in this particular location. And then I look at how I'm going to finance it. And I'm just, I self finance all of our places at this point. That's when I decide if I'm going to bet on this hand of cards or not.

Michael Dugan: 10:58

How many restaurants have you opened?

Tom Douglas: 11:01

I would say over time, probably 18 or 20 of 10 food businesses now

Michael Dugan: 11:07

that's incredible. That's absolutely incredible. And it sounds like what you described is kind of the formula for succeeding with these restaurants. Do you have a favorite?

Tom Douglas: 11:17

I just closed one that wasn't successful. And I was in it, so it's a million dollar law. Don't feel very smart after that, but the new place is rocking and rolling and I'm shucking oysters like a mad man.

Michael Dugan: 11:27

And

Tom Douglas: 11:28

so it's good fun. My last partner was my wife's uncle, my original partner, our original partner at the Dalai Lama. He put up 50 grand. We remodeled, spent every penny without, we had nothing in reserve to even stay open. And if it wasn't for the goodness of my parents, I would not be open. I would have gone broke. He put up that 50, 004 years. Five years later, after almost going out of business for six or eight months straight, we paid him off 750, 000. Wow. Because he owned 50 percent of the business. Oh my gosh.

Michael Dugan: 11:56

So what's the new restaurant? Like it's Half Shell,

Tom Douglas: 11:59

right? In

Michael Dugan: 12:00

Pike Place.

Tom Douglas: 12:00

Yeah, it's called Half Shell. It's a classic seafood joint. We have steak, free and burgers at the same time, but it's really anchored by our C bar with. With wide ranging, varying menu, like right now we have octopus and ready to start and, scallop crudo and oysters, obviously both roasted and raw, that's the anchor. And then whatever fresh seafood is coming in at the moment, I would, or just on Columbia river coho, we just got out of copper river. Kings, whatever happens to be the run of the moment, that's what we feature.

Michael Dugan: 12:31

And what's your favorite salmon?

Tom Douglas: 12:32

I'm a Copper River King man, for probably reasons that may or may not make sense, but year round is the Bristol Bay Sockeye or quick frozen at sea.

Michael Dugan: 12:42

Okay.

Tom Douglas: 12:42

I really love Copper River for what? it has done for the salmon industry. And there was a time when this beautiful fish was only appreciated for being put into a can and being plentiful. And a guy named John Raleigh, 30 some years ago, talked the fishermen into handling it better. He recognized the difference in quality of this particular fish in this particular river, talked the fishermen into bleeding, gutting, and icing the belly right. then and there as soon as they caught the fish. And so you took the great pedigree of the fish and then handled it properly. And it was magic.

Michael Dugan: 13:15

Wow.

Tom Douglas: 13:15

And the other thing it did was it gave value to wild salmon that had never really been appreciated before. Like people loved it. They ate it, blah, blah, blah, but it was never appreciated if it wasn't. sold, went, went into a can or went into this or that cat food, whatever, by it become the famous fish that it did, Copper River, it all of a sudden made Columbia Kings more valuable and Yukon Kings more valuable and Bristol Bay Sockeye more valuable because people started to identify a heritage. of the fish and it created this new economy around fish. There was a point when Copper River King wasn't getting much more per pound than Yakima Valley.

Michael Dugan: 13:57

Oh, wow.

Tom Douglas: 13:57

That's just the facts. And so he created this value. And in my mind, saved the wild salmon fisheries, made them more important, sustainable, and manageable, and it's like the filet mignon of the sea. We're willing to pay, you go to Met Grill and you pay 80 bucks for a steak, why shouldn't you pay 80 bucks for a Copper River Kings. It's the same value from the, or if not, it's wild. It's even a better value than a farm raised product is, I just think we had our priorities a little askew. And so that's what I really appreciate about what Copper River and the whole process of identifying it has done for the industry.

Michael Dugan: 14:36

Yeah. And it's amazing that you support that in your restaurants. I've seen it and I love river king. That's my favorite salmon. There's nothing, there's nothing better.

Tom Douglas: 14:49

No, it's a beautiful. So is the Yukon King. Like I say, we understand that now. We understand that each river has its unique qualities and each fish. Species, whether it's King, Coho, Sockeye, Pinks, Kitas, the whole thing, they all have value and now we're valuing them more, they've been trying to put Pebble Mine in the headwaters of Bristol Bay, right? Which we finally got stopped right now, but I don't that battle will never be over. There's trillions of dollars worth of copper and gold in the headwaters of Bristol Bay. And so there's always going to be somebody that wants to get it out of there and build a mining toxic, huge open pit mines up there. And we have to continue to fight it. You have to create an economy around this fishery if you're going to let people have jobs and send their kids to school and feed their families. You have to create the economy of fishing jobs and subsistence living and all that kind of stuff. If not, they're going to choose mining. They need the money. Right?

Michael Dugan: 15:46

Yeah. But the fight is going on and you're a huge advocate for it. And I know when you speak, you constantly talk about it. So people are aware of it. And I believe it's really important. And so if you're listening, research this because, and get involved because it's really critical. To sustain salmon and it's such an important fishery,

Tom Douglas: 16:11

we've executive produced two movies, one called the breach and one called the wild. The first one, the breach is all about wild salmon and what we've done this, the tragedy that there's really very little commercial salmon fishery available in the lower 48 at all because we've fished them out or uploaded them out or whatever. And we're trying not to let that happen on the last. Great salmon are on left on earth. And if you go online and you watch either one of these movies, you'll get an idea of the fight, the battle. Second one is dealing a little bit more with some personal battles of my, of our director, but the first one is really informative about the process, about the mind and about the fight.

Michael Dugan: 16:51

And I'll put links in the show notes. for those as well. So tell me about what was your inspiration for rub with love spices because I've I have the salmon rub. I have the pizza rub. I use pizza, the pizza rub on grilling vegetables. Sure. But I use the salmon rub for lots of different fish. And so what was the inspiration behind that?

Tom Douglas: 17:14

Well, our first restaurant, the Dahlia Lounge, was not going swimmingly well when it comes to making a margin. And so I had told Jackie's uncle, Clarence, I said, we have to think of something because this doesn't look like it's ever going to go. There's space in the Pike Place Market where Cafe Sport was, where I was the chef GM. It's available. I think we should do a seafood restaurant there that appeals to all people because Dahlia was a little bit more esoteric and was more of a foodie restaurant. I wanted something that appealed to the market audience, which was across the board, right? And he agreed and we did it. And, he was 50 percent partner and he was fine with going along for the ride. And we had lines out the door before we ever opened. It was crazy successful. And one of the most successful dishes was I had been invited to be a judge at the Jack Daniels World Barbecue Invitational. He did what we called the charcoal stroll. They gave you a pint of whiskey because it's a dry County, right? So the worker's got a pint of the paycheck. And so the judge has got a pint because you weren't allowed to buy it anyway. So we got a pint of Jack that evening did charcoal stroll, which was walking the campgrounds with all the tent and all the RVs and all the smoke plumes coming up where they were starting their whole hog, 12 hour briskets and all that. Deliciousness. And I fell in love with the process and I went into a few of them, a few of and I was watching them. It's a whole hogs with these their own spice rubs and it occurred to me that if I was gonna open a seafood restaurant that I had told my team and said, whatever we do, everyone serves salmon. I want somebody to say that we have the best salmon in Seattle after we open.

Michael Dugan: 18:53

Wow.

Tom Douglas: 18:53

I did this process. I came back. I was inspired. I made a rub for our salmon. We would then cold smoke it. So we put ice trays over the smoking fire in the smoker. We put ice trays over top and then did a cold smoke on the fish so that we rubbed it, cold smoked it. And then when you would sit down and order it in the restaurant, we would then just grill it real quickly to order. And we made a delicious cornbread pudding to go with it. shiitake relish, Northwest deliciousness and three months or four months, Seattle magazine called a salmon dish in Seattle. So yay, we were successful, but everyone wanted the recipe. Oh, yeah. So I said, it's a very simple thing. So I didn't want to just give away the recipe. I put bags of my spice rub at the front desk to see how it would sell. And it sold like crazy. I love it. So then a grocer came in and he thought why don't you sell these? Why don't you sell these in my grocery store? And he also said something like, it's works best if you have a product line, not just one thing.

Michael Dugan: 19:55

Sure.

Tom Douglas: 19:55

So I made a steak rub and a chicken rub. The rest is history. Now, 27 years old. We sell about 50, 000 jars a month of our rub. There's our business.

Michael Dugan: 20:03

Oh my gosh. That is incredible, Tom. That is really incredible. I'm a huge fan. I've given it away as gifts. I gave one to Lisa, who I talked to you about. You'll see her in some of your restaurants and her and Obed. She is a huge fan, just like I am. And my wife is, but I gave it to her at the hot stove society when we were there because she bought tickets. I'm like, you don't have to buy tickets. So she was like, no, no, no. And I said, you have to try this. And I'm pretty sure it was the salmon rub because that's my favorite. And I said, you have to try this because she loves good food. She's a diehard foodie. So anyway, this episode is dedicated to Lisa because she's the one that really brought me to hot stove and brought my awareness. And I'd love to dive into that. We have a few more minutes and can you tell me the backstory about hot stove society? I know it started, I think, as Seattle kitchen. I'd love to hear a quick story on that. If you could share that with our listeners.

Tom Douglas: 20:55

Sure. We had a, I was part owner of a building over by the palace kitchen, and it was called the palace ballroom. And we did events there. It was our catering events facility. We were doing great except summertime hits and there's no business, there's nobody doing events. There's no conventions in that first, especially the first two weeks of July. And so we were trying to think what we could do to create business on our own. So we started the Tom Buggles summer culinary camp, which was a five day adult Cooking camp

Michael Dugan: 21:22

right

Tom Douglas: 21:23

where we did the cooking demos and tastings from breakfast until dinner and it was debauchery we in the five days. We had almost 300 bites of different bites of food and almost 60 different beverages to go with them. So it was super fun. It was three or four thousand dollars for the week Wow It sold out immediately, 30, 40 people. We decided there was a business there. And so when the space that we're in now was the former place where the owner of the hotel and I would have our little sipscotch at a putting contest here above Lola, when we had free time, we call it an executive session. I said, what do you think if we were to build a cooking school in this space and move our summer camp over to here, do what we do one week a year, 52 weeks a year. He thought about it and said, sure, let's do it. So we did it. That was 10 years ago this week, and it is going strong and we moved our Seattle kitchen radio show here 10 years ago when we had this facility, it used to be in the studios at

Michael Dugan: 22:18

Cairo.

Tom Douglas: 22:20

So this is a much more foodie. And so once we did that, we could have an audience and we were still going strong 25 plus years later,

Michael Dugan: 22:27

it's amazing. I'm just going to paint a quick picture for everyone. So when I walked in to the hotel, it's in a hotel. And as I walked in, I walked up the stairs, there's this hot stove society logo and you walk in and you're literally in what feels like a production kitchen and there's butcher block tables that you sit down as an audience member and in the front, Tom sit or Tom stands actually with a microphone to the right of him. My right would be Bridget charters. Who's the culinary director. There's a table there, but behind the table on the left is Becky Guzak and she's the producer for the show. One of the producers and wow. What an amazing experience as a listener to, to be part of this taping of this incredible radio show about food and cooking and you get served a breakfast. And for me, that's my review. Right there in voice for chefs. I want to send that out to the world for you because that is the coolest thing I've ever done with food. And Lisa and I just bonded because we were so excited to be there. It's a small group and it was really intimate and it was really special. And you've been doing this for so long, Tom.

Tom Douglas: 23:43

And I have been, matter of fact, I can hear the group that's out there right now. We have a corporate group right now. Oh, they're all laughing. Yeah. But

Michael Dugan: 23:51

anyway, I wanted to make sure to share with people about the hot stove society. So if you're listening right now and you're in Seattle or you're coming to Seattle, you got to book some time with the hot stove society. They also have a cooking school with cooking classes coming up. So check them out. And before we wrap up, we got about six minutes. So I know you're really good with time. Cause I, I watched you. On the show. And I learned a lot from this experience because, wow. You're a chef, you're an entrepreneur, you're a radio host, and all these things. But for me as a podcaster, it's an honor because I watched how you hosted this radio show and you were so casual about it. And it was just like, people come in and come out and you interview somebody. And it was like almost running a restaurant, and just watching everything, just. Transpire and it was really special, but the one thing I wanted to say is there any message that you want to share with our listeners around the world? And particularly in Seattle, is there anything that you feel that people should know?

Tom Douglas: 24:57

If you watch Fox News, you're probably not coming to Seattle anytime soon, so stop watching Fox News. I'll start there. It's a beautiful town. I love our city. It has had growing pains like every other city and still does. Urban environments aren't sterile, so that's just the way it is and we'd love to see you. I would say. If you were to think about building a city, a modern city to this day, so you, let's just say you went to to architect school and you're gonna, you, your job is to build a town. There is no better place to start than the Pike Place market. And it has a synergy with our town that I think is what I could equate to a heart and soul from the cobblestones under your feet to the awnings of the old wood market, to the fact that there's a. Over a hundred restaurants in three blocks, there's a senior center, child care center, rich people, poor people, it is a slice of our city, and I just think it's a great place if you were to start a town, that's where I would start with, is a market like that, and build from there, and so Seattle's blessed with that, and then when you look out, you can look from the inland sea, which is the Salish Sea, Salt water, Lake Washington's all the way to the Cascade and Olympic Mountains. You could water ski or snow ski within 45 minutes of each other. It's Seattle is a lovely place with fresh produce. We grow tons of our own produce at our processor farm over in Eastern Washington. A lot of people think about Seattle, they think about rain. And there is 40 inches of rain here every year. But if you go right across the mountains, there's less than six. It's high desert. And so there's just a lot to see and do around here. Get up to Vancouver, BC with a beautiful city down the Portland, all the way down the, take the coast highway from San Francisco to LA, just if you were want a summertime trip, this would be the way to go. And personally, I wouldn't say stay off the cruise ships, but I would say there's other things to do than get on a cruise with 5, 000 other people and go to Alaska, right? In my opinion, the drive from Anchorage to Homer, Alaska is yeah. Is a life experience is so beautiful and people don't do it because it's a four or five hour drive, but God, it's lovely. And same thing in Seattle. You can just take off on trips and we have a great ferry system. My wife this morning got on a float lane with my sisters and headed up to Vancouver Island. To have tea at the Empress and go to Bouchard Gardens. And, there's just, just a lot of things to see and do around here. And the food is delicious. We have a natural bounty. All the oysters I shuck, I've been shucking with my partner almost a thousand oysters a day. Wow. And, they're all within 20, 30 minutes of our restaurant. And so there's a real natural bounty, whether it's crab or oysters, or we're just coming out of our spot prawn season. It's just a delicious place to be.

Michael Dugan: 27:35

And the seafood here is incredible. I'm a seafood addict. I eat chicken, I eat seafood, I eat a little bit of meat and a lot of vegetables, but I eat a lot of seafood.

Tom Douglas: 27:44

And I eat all the food I see.

Michael Dugan: 27:48

We have a lot of your flatbread pizza. My wife, oh my gosh, she went to Siri's Pie. Because my sister in law recommended it. It was a couple of years ago. She went and then two days later, she said, we have to go back. So we drove all the way from the East side to Seattle at that time to go back. So I could go experience it. And we go there all the time. That's one of our favorites, but I love your restaurants. I was in Dahlia bakery the other day and. And that's, oh my gosh,

Tom Douglas: 28:16

it's a sweet little something, isn't it? Yeah,

Michael Dugan: 28:18

it's just a cute little spot. Yeah, it's incredible. Tom, thank you for sharing your journey with us. Thank you for sharing your gifts. And the last thing is, how do we find you? How do we support you?

Tom Douglas: 28:29

I have a bunch of restaurants, as not everyone's going to make it to Seattle. I have four books out there. Go read them online if you don't want to buy one, but they're a little bit about our town and about how I like to cook. There is TomDouglas. com, of course, a hot stove radio. hotstovesocietyradio. com. There's, I want to say if you want to do more than just, come to one of my restaurants, watch the movie, watch The Breach, watch The Wild, and take a stand. These are human conversations. These aren't political conversations, salmon either live or salmon die, right? We have a choice as humans to help that process and get involved with the food scene. Look at the Monterey Bay Aquarium site, see what you're supposed to be eating. Don't tell me because you're in the aisle at the grocery store that you don't remember what It's on, it's an app on your phone for God's sake, buy what you can buy and do what you can do to help save our world.

Michael Dugan: 29:20

Well, Tom, I can't say thank you enough and you are truly a voice for chefs and I'm so grateful to you for this interview.

Tom Douglas: 29:28

Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Have a good one. All right.