74 Part I: Leading the Escoffier Institute: Chef Kirk Bachmann’s Culinary Legacy and Vision

Episode Description: Welcome to this inspiring episode of the Voice4Chefs podcast, where we’re joined by Chef Kirk Bachmann, Campus President and Provost at the Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts in Boulder, Colorado. With deep roots in the culinary world, Chef Bachmann shares his journey from growing up in a family of master bakers in Germany to becoming a leader in culinary education.

In this episode, Chef Bachmann discusses his father's legacy as a master pastry chef, the importance of family traditions, and how those early experiences shaped his career. He also reflects on his own path, stepping out of the family bakery to pursue his passion on the hot side of the kitchen.

Listen in as we explore Chef Bachmann's insights into culinary education, the art of regenerative farming with Farmer Lee Jones from The Chef's Garden, and his continued commitment to empowering the next generation of chefs. Plus, learn more about the Roots Conference 2024, where Chef Bachmann will serve as the Master of Ceremonies, and discover the rhythm of nature that informs the future of sustainable cooking.

Whether you're an aspiring chef or a food enthusiast, this episode is packed with culinary wisdom, heartfelt stories, and a glimpse into the legacy of a family dedicated to the craft of food.

Highlights:

• Chef Bachmann’s family background in pastry and baking, rooted in Germany
• The journey of his father, a master pastry chef, from Germany to Chicago
• How Chef Bachmann transitioned from the bakery to the hot side of the kitchen
• The influence of family, tradition, and critical thinking in his culinary career
• Insights into sustainable farming with Farmer Lee Jones and The Chef's Garden
• Upcoming Roots Conference 2024 in Huron, Ohio

Key Quotes:

• "Family is super, super important, especially a craft that's handed down from generation to generation."
• "In Germany, after nine years, you’re either a doctor or a baker."
• "My father was all about critical thinking and planning, which is why baking and pastry work was so important to him."

Website: https://www.escoffier.edu/
                 https://oneclick.bio/escoffierschools

Season2

Transcript

Michael Dugan: 0:53

I want to welcome Chef Kirk Bachman, campus president and provost at the August Escoffier School of Culinary Arts in Boulder, Colorado. With a passion for cooking and culinary education, Chef Bachman inspires his students and colleagues daily. So let's dive into his journey and insights. And Kirk, welcome to the show. I want to meet that guy. That's just so lovely. Thank you.

Kirk Bachmann: 1:18

Great to be here, Michael.

Michael Dugan: 1:19

You have a wealth of experience, an amazing background, and we're going to dive a little bit deeper into it, but I thought I really want to know. And I've listened to a lot of the ultimate dish or podcast. I've listened to some interviews on the side with farmer. That was a really good interview. Oh, Farmer Lee. Oh my gosh. What's that episode? So let's call it out for listeners here. Do you know the name of that episode by chance? It's probably Mother Nature's Rhythm.

Kirk Bachmann: 1:47

We talk to Farmer very frequently, not just the podcast, but we have a scheduled webinar every six weeks. And we've been doing this for years. And we talk about mother nature's natural rhythm because farmer Lee, just to give a little background and his family have been farming in the Huron, Ohio area of the United States for over 40 years, highs and lows, goods and bads. They had to do a lot of pivoting during the pandemic, but what's beautiful about the chef's garden. That's the name of the farm. Yeah. 400 acres. Yeah. They, years and years ago, they got the advice of a wonderful female chef who suggested that they start growing what chefs want. And whether that's a zucchini, the size of your pinky or an apple that is different in some way. And, and they started doing that and they have an audience from coast to coast and around the world. When Thomas Keller. Has a beautiful 30th anniversary celebration in Napa to celebrate the French laundry. Yep. Farmer Lee's there. Farmer Lee's there. Yeah. So we talk every six weeks about regenerative farming. We talk about the life of a farmer. But more than anything, we talk about Mother Nature's natural rhythm. Meaning, hey farmer, what should I put on my menu tonight? Whatever's in season, whatever's in season. So if you ever go to the farm, they, they have a lab there. It's very educational. They have a farm stand. So it's community, everyone coming together. So I'll be there a little plug for the chef's garden. I'll be there as the MC of the roots conference, 2024. September 15th, 16th and 17th. So. Oh, great. Okay. So

Michael Dugan: 3:35

look us up. Fantastic. Well, let's dive in. Let's dive into your background a little bit. Um, I know that your father was a master pastry chef in Germany and you grew up with your father and your family. Can you tell us a little bit about that and kind of what led you or lead us on your culinary journey?

Kirk Bachmann: 3:54

Yeah, I think I appreciate that. I think family is, is super, super important and particularly A craft that is handed down from generation to generation. My father's story isn't terribly different than many immigrants that have come to America over the years. So I'm, I'm a fourth generation cook. If you will, I'm the first to step out of the bakery and go into the hot side of the line. But Oh, okay. As they say, but to my, my dad. And I never knew my grandfather. He was killed in the war, but my dad's. memory of just having this phenomenal childhood growing up, they were called Bohemians. So they were sort of on the border of France and Germany, call it Southeast border, right? And after the war, the borders change and people lost their homes and they lost their bakeries. And my dad's family's grandpa was gone. So grandma had four children, 30 years old, a widow and a beautiful farming family in Bavaria took them in and My father followed the trade. I think he was told to follow the trade of his father and his grandfather and his great grandfather. And at 16, like many in Europe, he started what's called a journeymanship. So yeah, that's about six years. You go from one property to the next and you learn how to trade. Okay. That's followed by an apprenticeship, which is a lot more formal. Typically three years. So in America, after nine years, you're a doctor in Germany. After nine years, you're a beef. My father was really motivated to achieve the level of what's called Meister brief master chef, because in Germany you can work in a bakery without that credential, but you cannot own a bakery even today without the credential,

Michael Dugan: 5:36

you

Kirk Bachmann: 5:37

have to be a master, right? So he did that. And then at 26, he. Um, told my mother who he met in a bakery in Dusseldorf that he was coming to America and that he would send for her when he was all settled in. And that's exactly what he did. He landed in Chicago with friends and others that came from Germany and, Um, worked at, he worked in many places, but the place where he really learned the next level of the craft, the economics, if you will, of business was a bakery in Chicago on Montrose called Lutz's, which is still there today. Oh, and I'll just tell a super quick story. My dad was at Lutz's kind of one of the top bakers there. And he knew because he was doing all the ordering and stuff. And he knew what. He was paying for a bag of flour and he knew what they created with that bag of flour and he knew then what the cost of Buying something that was created and so he loved the economics of it all and so he started in his spare time He'd drive around the city and just keep his eye on other bakeries See how much traffic was going in and out and so finally he stumbled upon a bakery Austin had, it had opened in 1936. It was called Ackerman's bakery, Gene Ackerman and his family opened it up. Also German immigrants. And, and my dad watched it for a long time and he finally went in one day and said, I'd like to become your partner. And Mr. Ackerman said to my dad, well, that's great. He was older. And what do you have to offer me to become a partner? And my father tells this classic story. He's on my podcast as well. Oh

Michael Dugan: 7:12

my

Kirk Bachmann: 7:12

gosh. He said.

Michael Dugan: 7:14

What episode? I'm listening. Okay. Last year. I'll look it up.

Kirk Bachmann: 7:17

But he, he said, this is what I have to offer you. My hands and God bless Mr. Ackerman took my dad in and. And my dad and mom ran Ackerman's bakery for a number of years in Chicago until he had an opportunity. We were very young, my sister and I at the time. Then we had an opportunity with other German immigrants to move to Colorado and buy something bigger, a hotel and restaurant. And, so my parents were in one area of Colorado and aunt and uncle, Joe and Annalisa, they were in another mountain town in Colorado and James and Gisela were in another mountain town and Kirsten ate it. Remained in Chicago and and it's just the way people did things 60 years ago, right? It's they helped each other. They coached each other. They loved each other They're still friends today this group, right? My father's 88. My mom's 82 His master chef jacket still hangs TV room, but you know, what's really interesting when just like Kelly yesterday, when it comes to humility and genuine, just,

Michael Dugan: 8:20

yeah,

Kirk Bachmann: 8:20

just genuine pride. When we moved from Chicago to Colorado, I was young, I was probably 13, 14. I'd done some work with my dad. I'd done some work in Germany with my uncle, but I thought I was going to play center field for the Cubs like many people do. Right. And so I was pushing myself away from the industry. But as we're unpacking some of my parents things, I stumble upon this scroll and I open it up and I knew what it was right away. Cause I was a little bit of a student of the craft. It was his Meister brief. It was his certification. From Dusseldorf in 1968, 58, 1958, becoming a master chef. And he'd never told us he didn't hang it on the wall. Oh my

Michael Dugan: 9:03

gosh.

Kirk Bachmann: 9:04

But guess who hung it on the wall? This guy hung it on the wall. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. So, you know, so I grew up in, I think I probably spent a lot more time in the kitchen then through high school. We had a small hotel. And there's a lot that goes into the operations of a hotel. And my father's influence on me was all about mise en place. We would be ready for a busy Saturday night, true story. And he'd pull me aside and ask me what I would do if the ice machine broke down. He was just always about critical thinking, planning. That's why baking and pastry work was so important to him because he

Michael Dugan: 9:41

I'm less of a baker, but more of a cook, I think.

Kirk Bachmann: 9:45

But you could apply it to any discipline, right?

Michael Dugan: 9:47

So

Kirk Bachmann: 9:49

then what was really important to my family, my parents was that I got an education that they didn't write. And I mentioned all those people that, you know, moved out and bought their own hotels. So the one aunt and uncle were in Oregon. So that's where I went right after high school graduation. And I spent time in Oregon, ended up going to the university of Oregon and Eugene. Yep. Worked in the restaurant business while I was there, came back to Colorado after that and worked alongside my dad. And he was still, he still wanted me to get more education. There was a very tiny culinary school back in Portland, Western, so I went there. Yeah. And, and can I just tell you Michael? Hmm. Sure. I had such a good time culinary school. Oh, I love hearing that. Oh my God. Tell us why it was so, I felt somewhat familiar, right? I, 'cause I cooked, I wasn't afraid. Yeah. But I just. I'd gone to the university to try to do something different. I studied international business. I got a minor in German. That was really easy for me. I thought at one point I had a professor, a professor of political history, and I just loved him. Political science. And I wanted to become an interpreter at the UN. That's what I wanted to do. And I set my sights on that. I took the right classes. And then one day he was my counselor as well. One day you told me that, Hey, I forgot to tell you that someone has to die before you, you know, can get a job at the UN. I tried, I came out of the university, like so many other people, just like, maybe I can do this. Maybe I can do that. And then I went to culinary school and the job offers were everywhere. Weston hotel, this private, the university club in downtown Portland and Hilton hotel. It just, I felt like this is the greatest thing in the world that this industry needs people like me. It needs people like me, my dad and I, and my family and I, we bounced back and forth a few times, right? Because I was loving learning, running a family business, a family restaurant. We named that restaurant Joseph's after my father. We introduced European cuisine to the mountains of Colorado, and it was just absolutely lovely. But I was always being pulled to, I'll give you an example back then. No internet, right? But I read magazines constantly. We'd close the restaurant and I'd rewrite menus at night and food and wine was a relatively newer. Magazine at that time. Right. And they did a feature on this chef named Charlie Trotter who happened to be doing super, super cool things in Chicago. Right. And so I wrote Charlie Trotter a letter and I said, I would love to hang your menu in my restaurant here in Colorado. And guess what? He responded. He sent me a menu. I still have it today. It's framed. It says keep on cooking, Charlie Trotter. Wow. And he, and that menus, you can't see here because it's around. It's with you. It's with me everywhere I go. I love it. And I had a lot of those menus. A lot of those messages from the little Nell and Aspen and some other restaurants around the country. Wolfgang Puck. My parents picked that one up for me in LA from Spago. So magazines and menus. There was another article in food and wine It was a cover. Do you remember when Southwest Cuisine was all the rage? Yeah. Dean Fiering in Dallas and restaurants like Baby Ruth and Mark Miller in Santa Fe, the Coyote Cafe. Mm hmm. Well, anyway, this particular episode issue. Was kind of a rustic plate on, on a table with, I think it was a big old T bone steak or something like that. It just looked amazing with sea salt on it and all of that. But they took a bunch of herbs, rosemary, thyme, name it. And wrapped it up in like some rough twine. Right. And just threw it on top of that steak. I carried that magazine page crumpled up in my books for years. And I know I still have it somewhere. I just can't find it. But that magazine. motivated me to start exploring Southwest cuisine back then. So much that I was, I was working at the Benson hotel in Portland, Oregon. I was actually working the front of the house, but we did gear down service back then.

Michael Dugan: 14:26

Explain that for everyone.

Kirk Bachmann: 14:27

So gear down services, basically cart service, right? So somebody orders a Caesar salad. So rather than just bringing it out to them, The server or the captain or the cook will come out or the maitre d will come out with the cart and just prepare the dressing in front of the guest dressing in. And it's beautiful. So we did all kinds of things, cherries, jubilee, and all of

Michael Dugan: 14:49

them

Kirk Bachmann: 14:50

in the dining room. It was a show, right? And so I'll never forget Xavier Bowser was the chef there. It's been there 40 years. Swiss ran an immaculate kitchen. It was amazing. So of course this little guy shows up and I'm like, Hey, it was a very continental, the London grill, right? Very continental menu. Right. And so I was like, I saw this recipe. It's a, it's an enchilada. It's a lobster enchilada. Here's what I'm thinking. We could do this lobster enchilada with a beautiful Northwest mole on the plate. I think people will like it. He laughed and the Swiss chefs in the back laughed. But they did it, they put it on the menu. It ended up being an appetizer, but it was fun. It was delicious. It was absolutely delicious.

Michael Dugan: 15:35

For me, I'm addicted to your podcast. The guests that you have on are just melting my heart and connecting to my soul.

Kirk Bachmann: 15:44

I yesterday at Kelly Whitaker, who's more local celebrity, but he's got seven restaurants with his wife, Erica, here in Colorado. He's from Tulsa. He's done a stint in Seattle, LA, Italy, and his restaurants are amazing, right? One of his restaurants got us through the pandemic, right? So there's this just crazy connection of you, you helped us at the scariest time in our lives, right? Right. But he, he and I chatted yesterday for quite a while. And as I sat there listening to him and he was a talker, he was a storyteller and he said some super, super cool things around. And you'll love this. One of the things he said was know the rules you're going to break. The rules are going to break, right? So I'm not a rule breaker, never have been, but I've been thinking about that a lot, right? So, for example, years ago, if you went to culinary school and. You asked a student to complete a technique for you, grilling,

Michael Dugan: 16:53

basting,

Kirk Bachmann: 16:54

poaching, whatever it is, it, it had to follow certain criteria. There was a very defined rubric, whether it was a French rubric or a German rubric or a Swiss rubric, that's the way you had to do it. Right. And today, so those were the rules, right? And today, I don't know that we're necessarily breaking the rules, but I I don't ask my chef instructors to follow the rules. I ask them to be facilitators of knowledge. I want you to lead with food. I want you to listen to your students and no one gets a zero, right? Unless they don't show up. Sometimes people misinterpret things, but yet what they've executed is absolutely lovely. So you've got to, you got to build on that, right? Yeah. Our students don't go into the industry. They're not asked to do it the way Chef Pierre told them to do it.

Michael Dugan: 17:44

They're

Kirk Bachmann: 17:44

asked to do it the way the restaurant likes to serve it to their guests. So it's more about the techniques than the recipe, right? It's the techniques. Interesting. So, even if they did a grill, And you didn't really care for the sauce or the presentation. You take little things as you go. One, one thing that Kelly said yesterday to me that I really want to kind of pass along to others. Sure. He said, and I wrote it down over here. He said, he said a lot of really good things, but he said, leave more than you take away, leave more than you take away and young cooks. Probably there's no book on how to do this. Right. Right. I think I probably took a. Away more than I left. Right. I learned how to do certain things geared on service, all of that at that at that place. And I learned something else at this golf club and I learned something else over there. But my new message to young people today is definitely going to be leave more than you take away. What I mean by that is or what Kelly means by that too is bring your best every single day. And try to serve your guests the best you possibly can and leave that legacy, leave that memory. So that when you move on to the next place, people will say, Hey, do you remember when Michael was here? Do you remember the way he used to kind of talk to our guests and stuff? That that's really a beautiful thing. Right? And. But they got the grill, right?

Michael Dugan: 19:06

Yeah. I think we're okay. Break some rules. I've really become hooked on the ultimate dish. I mean, the guests that you have, cadence that you have, the pace, all these things are really powerful. A lot of people believe that you speak quick in a podcast. And I don't believe that because I believe if you do that, you miss the story and you don't miss the story. You can act, and every time I hear an interview with you, I've listened to probably 10 in the past couple of weeks, because I was just fascinated, both you being interviewed and you interviewing others on The Ultimate Dish. You create these stories, you tell the stories, but you also are a conductor of stories. And that's so powerful. There's not a lot of podcasters that do that.

Kirk Bachmann: 19:50

How do you do

Michael Dugan: 19:51

that?

Kirk Bachmann: 19:51

That's interesting. And And I don't know that there's an SOP for it or a certain way that we envision this. It just sort of almost serendipitously fell into place. I was just as nervous as the first guests I had, right? Sure. What are we going to talk about? So in my life, Whenever I thought something was going to provide some anxiety or whether I was playing in a baseball game in high school, I knew that if I prepared as much as I possibly could, the cards will just fall where they fall, right? If I, people get nervous when they're not prepared, anxiety, I tell my son all the time, he's a little bit of a baseball prodigy and he tells me that he's nervous. And I say, that's okay, because I know you've done the work. I know you're prepared. Anxiety is okay. Throw up. It's okay. It's okay. But if you're not practicing and you didn't study the math before the homework or the test the next day, that's nerves and you should have nerves because you're not ready. You're not ready. So our recipe or our technique, I should say, sorry, Auguste, is. Michael, we never get political. We never get, we don't even really get philosophical. We certainly don't get religious or controversial. We do a lot of work on the guest and we tell them in advance. The team that we work with, Noel, Kristen, tell me more agency in Puerto Rico, incredible people. And I work

Michael Dugan: 21:18

with

Kirk Bachmann: 21:19

a tremendous marketing and admissions team. at Escoffier. They're based in Chicago, Tom Erhart, Sarah Larson. I mean, just great people. And there's always, again, food first. And there's always this thought, just make it about the guest. So we do as much research as we possibly can. And then we. Put together a script, which the funny thing is we provide the script to the guests and I could tell that they rarely review it. A few have, and they've made edits, which I always appreciate, right? Oh, I always do. Let's not talk about that. Let's not do this. Yeah. And then I always, there's always a fun intro, which kind of relaxes people, but then I always just let them know that I'll just follow them. Listen, there's a script, but. You know, if you want to run with a cool story that brings back a memory, I'll just follow you. And it's really, it's really worked out. Katrina Markoff from Vogue Chocolat, uh, one of my all time favorite interviews. She was so That was a

Michael Dugan: 22:18

question I was going to have, so we might as well get into

Kirk Bachmann: 22:21

it. She was just so real. And I've known Katrina for a long time. In the early days when she started Vogue Chocolat in Chicago, she's a Le Cordon Bleu Paris grad. Which is so much. She's so much the, the profile of a culinary student today, right? Okay. She, she tried traditional college, had a passion for food, tried that, and here she has a, an incredible empire of some of the most beautiful chocolate in the world, right? Wow. She was, how do I say it? She, first of all, she was so genuine. She was unorganized. She kept shifting and asking her team where she should sit. And I, I just watched in awe because she was so passionate. Beautiful. Oh, I love it. In control of herself.

Michael Dugan: 23:10

Yeah. But yet

Kirk Bachmann: 23:11

playful. Whimsical. Right. She, she, it didn't matter that the camera. The best guest in the

Michael Dugan: 23:16

world.

Kirk Bachmann: 23:17

Yeah, she was great. She was just great. Bobby Stuckey. Yeah. Who's here? Michelle Esca was lovely. Oh my gosh. Right, right. Oh my gosh. So incredible. Yeah. We've really had some. Philip Tessier, who has a beautiful restaurant in California. He was the first American to podium at the Baku D'Or and he got it. Gosh, he was so eloquent. And so Gavin Kaysen, Minnesota. So wonderful. Just, yeah, we've just really been fortunate. Kristen Kish. Oh my God. And I think you said you listened to that one. Um,

Michael Dugan: 23:53

Nancy Silverton, Kristen Kish.

Kirk Bachmann: 23:55

Yeah. So Kristen was a student at LeCordon Bleu in Chicago while I was there. I'd be lying if I said I knew her. I know all my students. We had 2000 students back then, but I stayed in touch with her. She spoke at graduation one year. She was amazing. And I, I never thought that we'd be able to connect with her because of her stardom and her fame right now, but God, she couldn't have been more just kind and just really great. So I love it when

Michael Dugan: 24:21

people open up and say things that you don't expect. And that, that's why I have a script too. I hired a writing coach for my podcast in the very beginning because I didn't really understand how to approach it. And she gave me some really great insight. And one of the biggest tips was so simple. Imagine you're writing a book, right? If you're writing a book, you look at the table of contents, your podcast. Interview can be like the table of contents. Just kind of navigate through that. You know what I did? I got obsessed with my 66 cookbooks and I pulled them open and I started looking at the table of contents of the cookbooks. I'm like, that doesn't work. But then I looked at the storytelling ones and I'm like, Oh my gosh, there was magic there. Right. And that's how voice for chefs evolved. Like you said, I mean, it's the storytelling. Right.

Kirk Bachmann: 25:09

But some people too, like Katrina, a little bit, people have emotional episodes that occur in their life. And when some are really open to being vulnerable and transparent about that, you like, and that's where I just shut up. They clearly. Want to talk. That's all script. You're

Michael Dugan: 25:28

done.

Kirk Bachmann: 25:28

Yeah. Yeah. It was so real yesterday. He was real honest at one point He was like he was just expressing his appreciation because he's hard to get a hold of right? But he

Michael Dugan: 25:37

wasn't

Kirk Bachmann: 25:38

he said he was so glad that he found the time to chat because he needed to chat he needed get it to kind of reflect a little bit about what he'd gone through and most of it's great, right? Michelin and James Boone and all of that, but he hadn't had a chance to just breathe and talk about his lovely wife and his children and his teams. Right. And so we just, we just let them go.

Michael Dugan: 26:03

It feels like you're reminding me of something as podcasters. I feel like we're coaches, we're counselors, we're, we're storytellers, but our role. In my mind, the reason I started voice for chefs was because when the pandemic hit, people were losing their jobs. And I had this voice in my head that said, chefs need a voice. And it became that now that's what it became about. It's became honoring them, helping them share their stories and coaching them in. Technology and getting prepared and all those kinds of things

Kirk Bachmann: 26:36

that, and sometimes they don't even know what their story is. They just, yeah, just need to find the time to chat about it. We call that on our business, we call that mise en place. Kelly brought that up too, that mise en place is really important. I don't care if you're an artist that's about to step up to the canvas or you're a carpenter about to put it. Put the frame on a house or you're a cook. News and applause is super, super important. It's important to teachers as well. And any student can tell if an instructor or professor is not ready. It's not ready to teach, right. To facilitate learning. So yeah, really good themes, really good themes.

Michael Dugan: 27:16

That's so interesting. Don't miss part two, where we reconnect with chef Kirk Bachman, president of the August Escoffier Institute to delve deeper into his journey through education, cooking competitions, and the stories of his culinary students.