EP 79: Culinary Storytelling: A Toastmaster’s Journey on Voice4Chefs with Ray Miller

In this special episode join Toastmasters District 7 podcast, host Ray Miller as he engages in a captivating conversation with Michael Dugan, the voice behind The Voice4Chefs Podcast. Michael shares his journey from overcoming stage fright to running a successful podcast featuring chefs from around the world. They discuss the significance of 'mise en place' in both cooking and public speaking, and the transformative power of storytelling in podcasting. Michael also talks about his impactful connections through Clubhouse and the mentors who've guided his path. Tune in for inspiring stories that combine culinary passion with the art of speaking.

01:02 Michael Dugan's Best Sandwich Story

02:21 Michael's Journey with Toastmasters

04:49 Launching the Voice for Chefs Podcast

08:20 Challenges and Rewards of Podcasting

10:53 The Art of Interviewing Chefs

16:41 Filler Words in Podcasting

19:52 Scheduling and Publishing the Podcast

21:30 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

22:00 Discovering Clubhouse

23:42 Meeting Chef Mimi Lan

25:40 Growing the Podcast

28:53 The Power of Toastmasters

33:50 Podcasting Journey and Advice

40:07 Reflections and Gratitude

Connect with Ray Miller & Toastmasters:

YouTube: @d7toastmasters

Website: https://d7toastmasters.org/

Website: https://podmasters.toastmastersclubs.org/

Season2

Transcript

Michael Dugan: 0:53

In this special episode, I want to extend huge gratitude to the inspiring Toastmaster and Leader Ray Miller for welcoming me as his guest. Together, We delve deep into the evolution of Voice4Chefs toastmasters, and the culinary conversations that fuel the  Voice4Chefs podcast.

Ray Miller: 1:16

Welcome to episode 15 of the District 7 podcast. I am happy to share our conversation with the host of the Voice4Chefs podcast, Michael Dugan. Michael is a Toastmaster in District 7, a member of the Podmasters Toastmasters, and has a podcast with, at the time of this conversation, 70 episodes. Get ready for an enlightening conversation about giving voice to passion, sharing doubts, fears, courage, and tenacity in the Voice for Chefs podcast. This is the District 7 podcast, presented by Podmasters Toastmasters. My name is Ray Miller and please enjoy this conversation with Michael Dugan. welcome to the District 7 podcast. Michael, how are you this morning? I am fantastic. Are you ready for my first question?

Michael Dugan: 2:14

Oh, absolutely.

Ray Miller: 2:17

I'm interested to hear your answer. Michael, what is the best sandwich?

Michael Dugan: 2:23

Alright, so I have not shared this with you, but I just realized it. When I was first dating my wife, We had this place called Larry's market. Larry's market was a gourmet food shop and grocery store in Seattle, Washington. It's gone now, but back in the day when I was dating my wife, I bought crab, but I didn't just buy crab. I bought soft shell blue crab because I made her a soft shell blue crab sandwich. Now, if you don't know, soft shell blue crabs have the whole body, like the whole shell they shed and you eat everything. Including the eyes, and she saw it and she was grossed out, but she ate it and she asked me for a second one. That's always been my favorite, is  soft shell blue crab. They call them poor boys, actually.

Ray Miller: 3:18

I've heard of them before, I really like the sound of that. I've said this in the last interview that I recorded too. Okay. I ask that question because it always leads to an interesting story, and I'm not I'm not writing a cookbook about the best sandwich, but I've had a lot of great stories from that one. When did you first join Toastmasters leading into that? What was, when you joined Toastmasters, what did you, what was your reason for coming into it the first time?

Michael Dugan: 3:47

Well, the very first time that I heard about it, I was at Washington State University in school and I was taking a speech communication class and people weren't very serious about the class. they wanted a party in college and everything. And I was very serious, this is my junior year or senior year. I wanted to get better at public speaking. And I always had a fear of standing up in front of people. Sounds familiar for a lot of us. And the teacher took me aside at the end of the semester. And he said, you have great speeches. Have you ever thought about Toastmasters? And I was like, I have no idea what that is. And he explained it to me. I waited a few years after I graduated from college, I went to a Toastmaster club North of me. Now, probably about 40 minutes North. I won't give you the name because I walked in, they ignored me. There was 20 people in the room. They ignored me. And in the middle, they asked me to introduce myself and tell a story about myself. And I felt so nervous. And at the end, they completely ignored me. So I never went back for 10 years, but then one day I was working for Boeing in the corporate headquarters. And I saw an announcement that said, come to a potluck and learn about toastmasters, it was on the fifth floor of the executive building. I was nervous. I had this vision that was going to be judged by sales executives, vice presidents that were in the building. And I worked in technology there. And so I went. And I was greeted by so many amazing people. They gave me hugs and just made me feel incredible. The next week I gave my icebreaker and I just fell in love. And that was over 10 years ago. And I've been in Toastmasters ever since six years in leadership, just had an amazing journey. I went, like everybody else to get over my fear.

Ray Miller: 5:40

I feel like that is a relevant story for. Anybody who's been in Toastmasters for a long time, I think I've been in Toastmasters almost the same time as you have, because I joined in 2013. Wow. Because my other half said, you need somebody to talk to.. So that was her encouragement to me, but I had stage experience before. It wasn't a stage frame thing. It was a storytelling thing for me. Wow. I'm also, one of the, one of the topics of conversation that we talked about in our pre interview and we want, I wanted to circle back to is talking about our common interest in podcasting and interviewing because you've been running your own now successful podcast yeah.

Michael Dugan: 6:22

Actually, it's been two seasons. And there should be 70, 69 or 70 episodes total, 70, zero, yeah, seven, Oh, incredible journey. Just incredible.

Ray Miller: 6:36

What was your experience in your first, 10 episodes, did you pre record them all or did, were they haphazard? Did you book guests as you were catching them for that first, first

Michael Dugan: 6:46

few? Oh my gosh. Just thinking back, the very first. First couple, I do prerecorded and not because I'm nervous. I was nervous in the beginning. I had imposter syndrome. Like many people, as I went along, I got over it, but I do it for the chefs to make it prerecorded because their schedules are so tight. They're so stressed. So it's kind of like a coaching session when I do an interview because I help them relax. That's why I do prerecorded. And so in the very beginning, though, it was challenging because the first episode was called stay hungry and it was with my wife. And I'll tell you, that was very challenging. That was very emotional because that was the first episode. But also I had a Yeti mic, which I did not like. And I used it and literally she stood on a stool because she's shorter than me and we went on both sides of the microphone having a conversation because that's all I could afford at the time, one microphone and editing 16 minute episode took me six hours. Because I was learning audacity. I was learning how to edit, but also trying to edit somebody talking into a microphone from both sides is pretty challenging. So back then, I launched with three episodes and I had no idea how I was going to get the next chef. It was very risky in the beginning. but now they call me from all over the world. So it's I can't keep up, I've got lots of guests, but back then it was three episodes pre recorded. And a lot of learning, steep learning curve.

Ray Miller: 8:25

Oh, yeah. I mean, when I said pre recorded too, I was meaning more like lots of episodes recorded in the can. Not live stream, but more like recording. Like I, I do pre recorded. Well, I record, but one or at one point over the last year, I've had four episodes in the can that I've been. Working on an edit for yeah, but the but we're like pre recorded in the backlog. Like how many episodes do you have in your editing backlog at this point

Michael Dugan: 8:56

right now? I think I have four. but see back then that's the other thing. I used to call restaurants in Seattle and beg the manager to talk to their chef. And it took a month to get that conversation to happen. Now I have five other people that I need to reach out to all over the world. And literally I'm getting ready to start those conversations, do pre interviews like we do, which is the best way to go.

Ray Miller: 9:20

Yeah.

Michael Dugan: 9:20

but right now I have three or four that are in the hopper. I got to finish editing.

Ray Miller: 9:26

Yeah, I can see as things grow and as things, gain momentum, you just want to keep up with the conversation and keep having this conversation. Tell me a little bit about your podcast. what is the one thing that you're wanting to drill down to when it comes to each podcast in the, when you're talking to a chef?

Michael Dugan: 9:46

my wife is a user experience and a senior user experience. Person and designer, and she's very creative and she taught me early on about creating experiences. So for me, it's not about asking questions. It's about creating a whole journey. Every interview, I do a lot of research and it's like a walkthrough of the chef's life, and one of my favorite episodes, a very special one was with a French chef in Vancouver, Canada. And when we interviewed, he opened up and it was like, he was semi retired and he was looking back at his whole life. And I mean, I asked just a few questions and all of a sudden I was just following his whole career. Those are the kinds of interviews that I try to create are those chef experiences.

Ray Miller: 10:37

You remember what episode that was?

Michael Dugan: 10:40

I don't remember. Yeah, it was, gosh, his last name was Kutan. And I've got a, I don't have it handy, I mean, I can post it in show notes or something like that, but it was really incredible because he cooked for royalty in Thailand. He actually worked in a restaurant where they got their first Michelin star and he was a kid and the chef said, you can't tell anybody. And he's telling me the story, right? He's semi retired and he just opened up with all this emotion and it was so natural and transparent. Frederick Couton is the name. yeah, you can look it up, but, oh my gosh, it was epic. And then I interviewed his son. And the reason that I did this was because they create lobster oil. And it's this concept of fancy restaurants would use it in Canada and they pour it on bread or they put it in soup. And it's something you can have for a long time. And they literally go from the West coast to the East coast to get the lobster, to extract the oil. And I just thought it was brilliant. And so it's a father and son thing. Right. The father is the chef. The son is a marketing guy. Right. And he's really good. So I interviewed both of them, but Frederick just hit my heart because I mean, he's cooked for presidents. He's cooked for royalty and he was so humble. And that experience was epic. And Canadian, by the way.

Ray Miller: 12:05

Well, yeah, I mean. I know. I know about Vancouver Leading into my next question, as a former professional chef, people find it challenging to watch movies or TV shows with you, where a chef or a cooking or a kitchen is an important part of the story.

Michael Dugan: 12:26

You mean if I'm watching a movie with somebody else?

Ray Miller: 12:29

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Around

Michael Dugan: 12:30

that. I get pretty passionate about it. You could ask my wife, but I don't have PTSD, which I probably had when I worked in the restaurant business. It was really tough. Like watching the bear, people talk about that, the bear. And if you don't know, it's a show about the restaurant business. I'm kind of fearful because friends of mine that are chefs said they kind of felt PTSD from it. And I don't know if I want to go back to that feeling, but I kind of do, I kind of want to connect back to it, but I love watching chef shows. Absolutely love it. The problem though, is that they glamorize the stress and it's real stress. PTSD and mental health is a real thing in the restaurant business. People are abused. And that's part of what the podcast is about is to expose that and to talk to people and help them share those experiences and help them kind of heal as well.

Ray Miller: 13:25

I'm, I, one thought talking about PTSD and chef

Michael Dugan: 13:30

is

Ray Miller: 13:31

One of the movies that had a huge impact on me in my cooking was the Jon Favreau movie, Chef.

Michael Dugan: 13:38

Oh yeah. And

Ray Miller: 13:38

there was that scene in the early part of the movie after he'd extricated himself from his commercial kitchen and everything like that. huh. When he lined up, when he basically went to a farmer's market and picked up a bunch of stuff and then went home and just made this incredible spread at home on his own table. And sampling all the textures and everything like that. That changed my experience for how I look at things. Restaurant food in general. So I look for opportunities for that kind of storytelling and seeing that the stress has some, has a root as well.

Michael Dugan: 14:10

And it's funny because I gear questions to create storytelling. Every question has a purpose. And it's so important as a podcaster, if you're listening and you're thinking about podcasting, don't just ask random questions, ask something that you think is going to bring some emotion or some powerful story from your guest.

Ray Miller: 14:33

That's why I start , my, questions always off with the sandwich question because I love it. Yeah. Everybody has a different story about their favorite sandwich, which is interesting. And then sometimes people will answer like explaining why a hot dog is a sandwich, which is an interesting answer in its own way too. Yeah. it's. It is an interesting thing to dig into. Always, there's a story involved in everything. Into Toastmasters stuff, and I'm imagining this, because I've worked in kitchens before. Cool. I'm always interested in Microprocesses or practices. like the sous chef who, the sous chef who makes the, like the prep cook who makes everything the right shape, the right texture, the right everything. And I think about that in a Toastmasters world too. Every single role, every single project has it's only, it's own micro

Michael Dugan: 15:34

Checklist.

Ray Miller: 15:35

The thing that you, the, like the texture that you want to get out of. The kind of thing, have you noticed any, from your perspective, rhymes or similarities between the kitchen practice of making things with the right shape and the right texture into the Toastmasters world by the chair person or the table topics master or the counter even.

Michael Dugan: 16:01

You could think of it this way. There's a famous French term called mise en place. And it's about being prepared. It's about having your stuff together to be politically correct. you have your onions chopped, you have your celery chopped, you have your mushrooms chopped, you have everything lined up for the day. Your prep work is done. Your mise en place is ready to go. So when you hit the sauté line as a chef or as a cook, you've got all your ingredients in front of you. You got your sauces ready, because honestly, if you don't. Then you're in a panic. Then you're in a catch up for the whole day. So it's kind of like giving a speech, right? You practice it. You get ready for it. You get criticism from it. Maybe I record every speech before I give it and then I listen back to it and then I evaluate it. But that's the kind of preparation mise en place that I do before I prepare. If I have a grammarian role, I might go out on the web and research being a grammarian, tips and tricks and maybe have a checklist and those kinds of things. So for me, it's all about mise en place and that's something I learned in the restaurant business.

Ray Miller: 17:11

The one evaluation that changed things for me was always the ah counter evaluation six or seven years ago, I remember, and the evaluation in the explanation at the end of the meeting when he's giving the count of, this many ums, this many ahs, this many sos, this many filler words at the end of his evaluation, he said, I'm not counting these because they're not words that your words are not supposed to be using. I'm counting them because unconscious use of these words. is the thing that I'm learning to practice and recognize. You can use filler words, they're totally fine as long as you're aware of them. What is your brain automatically doing in between thoughts though? That's where filler words become Interesting.

Michael Dugan: 17:56

And it's interesting too. And maybe you already have this as a question, but I definitely want to interject this filler words are a nightmare in podcasting. And I'll give you an example. I interviewed someone from California and they said 250 times in a 45 minute episode. For me, I spent a lot of time working through editing, cleaning that up. Because I want that person to shine and the curse of being a Toastmaster is I hear all these filler words over and over again. And it's something that it's in my heart to help them, to release some of those filler words. You don't want to release all of them, but some of them so that they sound more professional. And as a Toastmaster, we all understand that. But it's hard as a podcaster to listen to those. That's painful. As a podcaster, and I know you know this,

Ray Miller: 18:51

it's a perfect interjection. My painful experience in my experience has been editing myself. Oh, yeah, because I'm listening to myself talking. I'm like, Oh, that. Why did you say that? That was terrible. Why? Stop talking. Stop talking. But these are all things that you run into when you come into your own storytelling.

Michael Dugan: 19:14

Here's something that I really do and I want my guests to sound better than I do. So I actually edit less filler words for myself than I do for my guests because I just feel like I want to honor them. That's the whole point behind the podcast.

Ray Miller: 19:30

in my experience in this last year that I've been doing this, I actually have not been editing out filler words from the video podcast because in a video podcast, they're,

Michael Dugan: 19:42

yeah, it's too hard.

Ray Miller: 19:43

Yeah. And it's not a matter of it's too hard, it is just less natural. Yeah, so I'm aware of the filler words. I might. edit or chop around them, but I don't remove them. at least I don't make any conscious effort to remove them. I mean, if it's an easy thing, that's like a long pause filled with a, filled with another long pause, then I'll chop that off in the middle. Part of the storytelling can sometimes be the filler words

Michael Dugan: 20:09

agreed,

Ray Miller: 20:10

which is useful.

Michael Dugan: 20:11

I think I do less removing of filler words because I want it to be more natural. And if you're listening, when you first start out, there's a little bit of that anxiety. That you go through and you're like, you want it to sound perfect. I've gotten to a point where it doesn't have to sound perfect anymore. People love it for what it is. And that's what really matters. So I did get hung up and probably talk too much about filler words, but this is more for people that are listening. maybe they're starting out as a podcaster and they're just wondering, how do I do it? What do I look for? And that, I think it's important to recognize them, but not to too much anxiety around them.

Ray Miller: 20:49

Absolutely. Absolutely. That's what the ah counter is all about, recognizing the conscious and unconscious use of filler words. At this point now, like you said, you've got four or five people basically calling and you've got four in the backlog of editing.

Michael Dugan: 21:07

Yeah. Yeah.

Ray Miller: 21:08

How do you go about scheduling guests for your podcast at this point? Do you have an assistant or somebody that basically, helps you schedule these things now or is it still all yourself?

Michael Dugan: 21:18

I am looking for an assistant, to be honest, somebody that's passionate. Maybe they're in Toastmasters, maybe they're hearing this, but this is an amazing experience for someone to connect to chefs around the world. And to hear their stories and be part of something that's really special. I'm looking for that. I do work full time. This is self funded, so it's tricky. I do it myself now, but yeah, I'm definitely looking for that. So I schedule out with them. Chefs are tricky though, because they don't always have a consistent schedule. You would think they would, but that, that creates some new unique challenges, right? so I schedule them out, but I don't have an assistant.

Ray Miller: 22:01

Do you have a publishing schedule for your podcasts?

Michael Dugan: 22:04

So I do it once a month. I do it the second Sunday at 1 p. m. Pacific standard time. Now I'll say that, but I have 70 episodes. So I interject some other episodes in between, but my standard is once a month.

Ray Miller: 22:21

I had on my notes page from our conversation in June to talk about . Kyle Hall.

Michael Dugan: 22:27

Oh, Kyle's incredible. was number three in the world championship of public speaking, and he's very active in district 32 and district two, which are in my areas. I did mention Kyle because Kyle was key for the High Performance Leadership Project, which launched the Voice for Chefs podcast.

Ray Miller: 22:46

That's in the context. I remember that. He was the person at the beginning that was saying, get over that imposter syndrome and just do it. And even if three people listene to it or 10 people listen to it, just do it. Correct. Get the process out, which. Yeah, I remember that.

Michael Dugan: 23:05

One of my favorite Toastmasters in the entire world.

Ray Miller: 23:09

I know I circled his name for a reason and I knew there was a story there. Clubhouse.

Michael Dugan: 23:16

Yeah.

Ray Miller: 23:16

How did you get involved, like, how did your relationship get into Clubhouse, this online app that is audio only? Yeah, so that was a very special thing. I had joined a long time ago, and I would say Maybe six months in I was, I had launched the podcast. I wasn't really getting a large audience. I was some Toastmasters, some friends and people I knew those kinds of things. Plus also when you publish, it goes out to a lot of podcast directories and people just kind of filter in listen. But for me, I took a course with Nancy Judden and Nancy is a brilliant person that helps people guest on podcasts. That's one of her big, well known parts of who she is. She's an incredible business and marketing person. one of my heroes and I took a course a week long course. And it was all about how to get yourself prepared for podcasting and for the media. And I was so inspired by that. That it helped me get over imposter syndrome. So I started going on clubhouse, which is an audio only app, and they invite you to speak much like a podcast or an interview, except you could have five people at the same time speaking. You could have one person at the same time speaking and you invite another person up on what we call the virtual stage and it's audio

Michael Dugan: 24:40

only. So you don't see anybody, but you're listening. And there could be hundreds of people listening in what we call rooms, like, a zoom room. And there could be a hundred, there could be 200, there could be 500. And these could be people from all over the world. There's no specific place. So what happened was. I met a chef online on clubhouse. Her name is chef Mimi Lan. And she was the catalyst for the growth of my podcast because she invited me to join this club called Food is Religion and  Food is Religion started when I started, it was 5, 000 people around the world that were in this club and they would have daily rooms. They call them for topics about food, about chefs, about anything related to food. It ran all day long because there are people all over the world, different time zones. So you join, you listen on your phone, you could be working, you could be traveling, whatever. you're not actively speaking. You're just listening as an audience member, much like people that'll be listening to the podcast. So what happened was we really connected. And I actually asked her to be, to interview because she's a Michelin trained chef. And I was like, wow, Michelin trained chef. Right. And I got excited about it. And so I interview with her on clubhouse, but not officially on my podcast. Right. And that was okay because she invited me into this amazing circle and she saw my energy, my passion, my desire to interview chefs. So she invited me. To do an online audio only cooking class and interview chefs while they're cooking. You can't see anything. You're listening to the pan sizzle. You've got to really use your imagination. So that's how I started meeting chefs all over the world. And so what happened was I helped her because I became an officer in clubhouse. I helped her grow the club from 5, 000 people to 8, 500 people in a year and a half. And there were other officers involved, but we were, we would meet and we talk about strategies had nothing to do with the podcast, but I fell in love with the idea and it meant so much to be part of this community and help grow it. And now I started to have listeners come from all over the world. So I went from two countries to 65 countries and so had all this reach, but the best part about it was. It wasn't just interviewing chefs in Seattle anymore. I would interview chefs on clubhouse. But then I would also interview chefs on my podcast. So I invited a celebrity chef who was a chop champion from the food channel named chef Ed Harris. I did a cooking class with him. Like I interviewed him in the cooking class and then I said, Hey, would you be open to an interview on my podcast? So he did, and that opened up more doors and the doors kept opening and opening. And that's when chefs started calling me and PR people started calling me or reaching out through email. I just got another one today. It's would you like to interview someone from the Escoffier Institute, which is the first online cooking school ever in the U S. And I was like, absolutely. So that's how things happen. And that's where it all came from was clubhouse chef, Mimi, Nancy Juetten and really Kyle Hall. So that's kind of a little bit about clubhouse. The other thing to know too, is that any hobby, any passion, any career that you have. There's a conversation about it on Clubhouse all over the world. It's not just cooking. It's fly fishing. It's Toastmasters. Mark Brown's on Clubhouse on Toastmasters. I would listen to him and you can come up on stage and talk to him. that's so cool. Their algorithms have changed a little bit, so it's a little bit different to navigate, but. It's, it was an amazing platform to be involved in. I stepped away a little bit cause I'm so busy now with all the chefs in my podcast. for me, because I was a toast master, it was easy. I didn't struggle with a lot of things. I already knew how to present. I already knew how to have a conversation. What I ended up doing was supporting other people doing that, that were going through that struggle and loving that journey. Absolutely loving that journey because as an officer, I was a coach, and I'd be coaching chefs on how to speak up in clubhouse. And it just, that just took off. And then we went from the cooking class to a food talk show. So I started doing that and then I started interviewing chefs on clubhouse just as a regular interview. Right. And I brought lots of them from different circles and chef Mimi would introduce me to famous people because she was really connected. So I started interviewing them and it just grew and grew. And now you have a great resume when you approach a PR person and say, I'd like to interview your chef. Well, I've interviewed this food channel chef, this food channel chef, I interviewed James trees, who was, He helped start kitchen nightmares and he helped start hell's kitchen. And that was amazing interview recently from Las Vegas. And he's absolutely incredible. And he tells it like it is, there's no, there's nothing held back. it's the real story. And that was epic. but that all came about because of Toastmasters because of clubhouse. I mean, those are big factors in the success of the podcast.

Ray Miller: 30:13

That is the Toastmasters ingredient that I'm, that I'll probably point to is one of the things that changes the most for, at least for me, maybe for you, maybe for any other people is. My approach to evaluation is always additive,

Michael Dugan: 30:28

right?

Ray Miller: 30:28

You're always adding ingredients to what it is that you've heard. It's never about taking away because the ingredients are already there. So you're always adding to what it is that you heard. How do you make something just a little bit better, slightly better texture, whatever it is that speech, then evaluation kind of process is. Important and critical evolution of everything on that and your story makes me think also there's no such thing as an overnight success. You've always got lots of people, always got lots of people behind. There's another podcast. Ones who are. Hearing all of the, I couldn't have done this, but for all of this extra support.

Michael Dugan: 31:13

Oh, without a doubt. These

Ray Miller: 31:14

things that inspire me in the background, these stories that the mentors and the coaches and the, everybody in the background that is helping to add to the experience that this chef is credited for providing, but only for the grace of the support around them, are they able to do it?

Michael Dugan: 31:32

And I've been really lucky. I don't have any bullheaded chefs on my podcast. There were one or two and I just, I actually refused them. They were famous. And I was like, Nope, I don't see a fit. And that was hard, right? In the beginning. But I was like, I just don't see a fit. I interview chefs that give back. I interviewed chefs where cooking is in their soul and they're not here to sell something. I mean, they may have a product and we talk about it, but that isn't their ultimate goal. They're here to share the stories with our listeners. They're here to open up and give advice and connect. And, the greatest thing, the greatest gift that I can offer, and this is from my soul. Is to connect them to somebody else that inspires them, and those are the people that come on my show and I feel so blessed and so lucky, but it would have never happened without Kyle Hall, without my wife, without Linda Worthman, who was on my high performance project and without Nan Hamilton, who was on my high performance project, all of those people came together and we built this. I mean, we built this idea, right. And it was so special. And if you're thinking about a podcast, I'm just going to put it out there. Definitely without question, create a high performance leadership project because you have two projects you can work on. One is the high performance leadership project. And the other is the podcast. There's two levels, level four and level five that you can do. And it's so powerful and it can be life changing. And as a Toastmaster, anyone in Toastmasters can do that.

Ray Miller: 33:12

Yeah. Well, this is my, this podcast is my DTM project, and I'm working on my third path right now, visionary communication, and I'm going to be relaunching a podcast. On that visionary communication channel, path to carry through and to explore that even more. I had a thought that was occurring to me moments ago, but then it evaporated as anything that sits on the stove for too long will. I have a guest question that is provided specifically for you.

Michael Dugan: 33:44

Oh, now you've got me curious. I mean, curiosity is in the air. When you have a really quiet moment. What truly makes you happy? Wow. Quiet moment. I think reflecting back on, living in the Northwest, I live in Seattle, Washington, and it's one of those things where we have mountains, we have rivers, we have Puget Sound, which is a large body of saltwater. And a lot of times. I'll listen to relaxing music and I'll just think about those things, the hikes that we take. I take with my wife and our rescue dog, Pongo. And those are amazing memories that I reflect back on.

Ray Miller: 34:37

That question was from Beth Ramsey, our past region one director. So that's an interesting question. And I say that while I'm looking out the window to the north where I have Mount Seymour and the Trail in North Vancouver. I'll take you on a hike there with your, With your, puppy. If you ever come up and visit in Vancouver, Canada.

Michael Dugan: 34:58

Oh, that'd be amazing.

Ray Miller: 35:00

Are you interested? Would you like to flip the script? Do you have some questions? Yeah.

Michael Dugan: 35:05

Yeah, I definitely do. Because you know what people need to understand podcasting is a little bit of work, but you've got to be driven to do it. Like it's gotta be a passion. You can certainly do it as a project, but what happens to most people is they get hooked. They really get hooked on it. They fall in love with the idea and it takes Toastmasters to the next level. What is your journey been like in podcasting? If you can just kind of summarize, like from the beginning, did you have imposter syndrome? And how did you get over that? And, what was the journey like?

Ray Miller: 35:43

That is an interesting question. The journey for me into podcasting, I can go back in time quite a distance. Journey for me in podcasting was the first time I started hearing long form interviews on the radio and then podcasting apps. This goes back to 2008 when I was doing triathlons and in triathlons, you're not allowed to listen to headphones with music in them because you got to be able to pay attention to stuff. So in my training runs, instead of listening to music, I used to listen to these long form interviews. And then I started seeking them out, and finding and learning, and it was just a, an opportunity for me to listen to these conversations that were not seven minute scripted Q& A sessions on a late night talk show. So that drew my interest to it, but now, filler word, now looking at my journey into podcasting over the last year, the imposter syndrome, I don't even know that I would point to it as imposter syndrome. It's a fear of feeling like I'm too much. Just being able to draw these questions out of the people that I'm talking to. And it's been really enlightening to look into it from a video perspective to make sure that I'm putting the focus where the focus needs to be to add to the story or let the story grow, if that makes any sense.

Michael Dugan: 37:22

It does. And is there a moment, is there a moment where you were just reflecting on something or somebody really affected you? By doing this, like you just felt, wow, this is why I did this.

Ray Miller: 37:40

Yes. There is a moment. Okay. There was a, earlier this year there was an episode I was editing and it was a really long episode. It was an hour and 20 minutes of recording with four people. So two hosts and two guests and I'm editing it. And this actually comes back to a question that I had written down for you too, is at some point I realized that. This conversation was originally intended to be two conversations, so split them up into two, first and second, and I really struggled with it for a while on the edit. Until I came down to realizing, Oh no, this is actually three episodes. It has to be broken out into three separate episodes, on the back end after the conversation, just because the flow of the conversation worked that way. Interesting. So then in like in the back end of it, I ended up turning this one into three episodes and all three of them are very distinct and interesting in their own way. And an episode that immediately followed it was a lady named Sherry Race, and she redefined the word fail for me as first attempt in learning. And I'll tell you, when she said it that way, and I hadn't heard it before, Until we were in the conversation, but as soon as she finished saying that, in my mind, there was this long boom, just a hit, where my brain suddenly went, Oh yeah, I get that. That is a really good acronym, FAIL, F dot A dot I dot L dot, this big acronym, FAIL. So just experiment, throw stuff at the wall, throw your pasta at the wall and see if it sticks.

Michael Dugan: 39:40

I love it.

Ray Miller: 39:41

I love it. See how well it's cooked to into an analogy for that.

Michael Dugan: 39:44

I think about this a lot. I think about over three years ago when I started as a podcaster and yes, I had an imposter syndrome. I did a lot of things to get over that. And those are amazing exercises that really increased my confidence. but what can you share with? Toastmasters that are listening about starting a podcast. What advice would you give them when you remember when you started? Are there any lessons learned? Is there any advice that you can give them to help them move forward? Because maybe some of them are sitting on the fence like I was, where it took me months to launch the first episodes. What can you tell them that will help them launch?

Ray Miller: 40:32

I don't know that my advice would be really good.

Michael Dugan: 40:35

Okay.

Ray Miller: 40:36

My suggestion would be. To just do it and be uncomfortable with doing it and know it's going to be uncomfortable doing it. And I don't know that I'm quite there yet. I'm still pushing myself through that imposter syndrome too. being aggressive at it, but that's part of just my own neurology. I'm always uncomfortable doing what it is that I'm doing. And maybe that's the advice that I would give, is know that it is uncomfortable. And that, the line that I keep saying is, growth only happens with the appropriate application of stress. Oh, very interesting.

Michael Dugan: 41:17

That's great. and then a final question, who helped you along in your podcasting journey? Is there any shout outs that you want to give to someone or a few people that, that really helped you in this process?

Ray Miller: 41:36

Yes, several people, actually one primary, like first, first one that comes off the top of my head is the district seven incoming, club growth director, Fred Bergeron. And when I came to him last year in May at part of the podmasters club, I came to him with this idea of Because I had this podcast idea percolating in my head when I came to this club and I said, I just want to talk to Toastmasters about their Toastmasters journey and what it is that makes them interested and challenged and growing into Toastmasters. And Fred was in on it. A really great idea on it and lined up a really great lineup of guests and people to talk to, which was great. and then there was a, an expectation, a publishing schedule that came along with it, which I wouldn't have picked up at the outset, but I tried to fit into it initially. And I realized. Very quickly, that was just going to be too much. So I had to dial it back. I couldn't do, I couldn't do weekly and even twice a month became a little bit excessive for me in terms of access to my computer and editing software and stuff like that. But I, I tried and tried and got lots of feedback. And excellent feedback from him to get us to the point where we now have, well, this will be 15 episodes for my year. The second person that was incredibly helpful. And, was, another lady named DJ. yeah, DJ Silver Fox talks. She has a live stream podcast that she runs out of Florida. She helps out with lots of brainstorming ideas initially at the front, just. Q and a back and forth. She helps, introduce me to Canva to create the very first template. And then Bob, Bob Hall, who's also with district seven, he helps, especially in the fall when we were, we did a couple of interviews together and especially that one long interview that, that ended up becoming three episodes. We just had really great. Bouncing ideas off of each other. ridiculous ideas would bounce off of each other. And the whole point of that was, is you come up with three terrible ideas and one really good idea.

Michael Dugan: 43:56

Okay.

Ray Miller: 43:56

And then we would come up with this structure and this idea. those three people specifically were super helpful to, to make this happen. And now. Yeah. And it's interesting. And then other stuff that I've discovered along the way, Zoom came out with its own booking app to be able to schedule, to align the schedule with my Zoom app, super, super helpful. And then I have my voiceover website, which is not a person, but is a place where I could host some of these links that I could send out and say, okay, here to make these schedule things happen. Okay. Those two items at the end for the last couple of months have been super, super helpful. excellent resources for me to play around with too, along with all of the support in the back end.

Michael Dugan: 44:46

Oh, that's fantastic. I, I want to give a shout out to Fred too, because I joined podmasters and it's this amazing community of supportive people, just like in Toastmasters, but it's really focused on learning about podcasting and giving yourself an opportunity to practice a podcast. We can do 20 minute interviews where people can really practice and get incredible round robin feedback. And Fred created that concept and it's really powerful. And then also he introduced me to you to make this happen. and I personally, I want to give a couple of shout outs. stage time university is an incredible way to advance your. Toastmasters skills. And I did that for two years. And what's amazing is every Wednesday night, we would meet with Mark Brown, world champion, public speaking Darren Lacroix would be there. Jennifer Leon is a international speech coach and a couple others and people from all over the world that were in toastmasters and also people that were professional speakers. And they would give a presentation and there'd be coached by world champions live. On zoom every Wednesday night. And I did that for two years and it helped me to really hone in on the podcast and things that I wanted to say and share and, and then Craig Valentine, who the one thing I remember from him and I quote him is it's not about perfection. It's about connection. And the greatest joy for me in voice for chefs. Is to be able to connect chefs, one chef from Australia to another chef in Colorado or Florida or something like that. I have an international pastry judge who just opened two restaurants in Batam, Indonesia and he's an ambassador for Nestle chocolate and he became a great friend. Like he is so passionate about cooking and teaching, even teaches kids, how to cook and pastry. And he's pretty famous in, in Indonesia. and for me, the podcast is one thing, but the connection is the other part of it, this connection right now is really powerful because in some way, I think we're going to help each other and I'm super excited about that, and that's what it's all about in podcasting. And it just perfectly aligns with Toastmasters.

Ray Miller: 47:17

I couldn't agree with you more. what a great way to finish off a question like that, that I love the additive nature of the Toastmasters experience. They're always just pick up what is good and make it slightly better, make it slightly better or even just give it slightly different context.

Michael Dugan: 47:40

Yeah, that's true. and, I think that I just encourage people that are listening right now. If you're on the fence, just jump in and do it and know that people in Toastmasters are going to support you and lots of people that you're going to meet are going to be really excited about what you're doing, whatever your message is to share.

Ray Miller: 47:59

Michael, thank you for joining me for this great conversation. And I really appreciate all of the ideas that we had and thank you for being My last guest in the District 7 podcast.

Michael Dugan: 48:11

I'm really honored. And the last thing I say is if you're interested in podcasting, District 7 has Podmasters. Check it out. It's an amazing club.