Palm Harbor Local
Welcome to Palm Harbor Local—where we celebrate the heart and soul of our community by sharing the stories of the incredible small businesses that make Palm Harbor thrive.
Hosted by Donnie Hathaway, a Florida native, real estate expert, and passionate community builder, this podcast is all about Building Community—connecting people, businesses, and ideas that shape our town.
Each episode, we sit down with local entrepreneurs, business owners, and changemakers to dive into their journeys—the dreams that sparked their businesses, the challenges they’ve overcome, and the impact they’re making. From brand-new startups to long-standing local favorites, we uncover what makes these businesses special and why they matter to the community.
Whether you're a fellow entrepreneur, a proud Palm Harbor resident, or someone who just loves supporting local, this podcast is your inside look at the passion, dedication, and creativity fueling our local economy.
Because strong businesses build strong communities.
Join us as we shine a light on the people behind the businesses, share valuable insights, and inspire you to engage, support, and grow alongside your community.
Subscribe now and be part of the movement to Build Community, one story at a time.
Palm Harbor Local
Why He Left Construction to Build a Cookie Empire in Palm Harbor
In this inspiring episode of Palm Harbor Local, host Donnie Hathaway chats with Kelly Cloward, the owner of two Crumbl Cookie franchises—one right here in Palm Harbor. Kelly opens up about his unconventional path from construction management and door-to-door sales to running one of the most buzzed-about cookie shops in the country.
Originally from Utah, Kelly shares how his entrepreneurial spirit was sparked by a childhood friend’s business-owning family and strengthened by years of life experience, a mission abroad, and even a failed first venture in construction. That path ultimately led him and his cousin to bring Crumbl Cookies to Florida, where they’ve made Palm Harbor their home.
In this conversation, Kelly gets real about the challenges of entrepreneurship—like quitting too soon, starting from scratch, and the trade-offs of running a franchise. He also talks about building community through business, the importance of mentorship, and why Palm Harbor quickly became the perfect place to live, raise a family, and grow his brand.
What You'll Learn:
- Why Kelly traded a steady job in construction for the uncertain life of a franchise owner
- The pros and cons of buying into a franchise vs. starting your own business
- How a failed construction company helped prepare him for success
- What it takes to thrive in the early stages of a franchise
- The value of community, support systems, and choosing the right location
- Why Palm Harbor stood out as the ideal place for his business and family
Links & Resources:
- Visit Crumbl Cookies: crumblcookies.com
- Learn more about Palm Harbor Local: palmharborlocal.com
- Join the weekly newsletter: Sign Up Here
- Follow us on Instagram: @palmharborlocal
Stroll through the laid-back streets of the Palm Harbor community with this informative podcast, proudly brought to you by Donnie Hathaway with The Hathaway Group, your trusted guide and local expert in navigating the diverse and ever-changing property landscape of Palm Harbor.
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Welcome to Palm Harbor Local, the podcast dedicated to building community and sharing inspiring stories from the heart of Palm Harbor. I'm your host, donnie Hathaway, and today we're joined by Kelly Cloward, who's the owner of the Crumble Cookie franchise in Palm Harbor, florida. Palm Harbor Local is all about spotlighting individuals and businesses who are making a difference, overcoming challenges and fostering connections right here in our hometown. If you're passionate about growing together, getting involved and celebrating the people who make Palm Harbor thrive, you're exactly where you need to be. In today's episode, you'll discover how the Crumble Cookie franchise got its start, why Kelly decided to open up the Palm Harbor franchise, and we'll talk about the differences between starting a franchise or starting your own business from scratch. Now don't forget to connect with us on Instagram at palmharborlocal for behind the scenes highlights, and join our weekly newsletter at palmharborlocalcom. Now let's dive in and build community together.
Speaker 1:Kelly, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, glad to be here. Yeah, this is. This will be fun man. Glad to be here. Yeah, this will be fun man. So you are the owner of two franchisees of Crumble Cookie Yep, crumble Cookie. What got you started with this company?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So Crumble is a gourmet cookie business and my wife and I I grew up in Utah, my wife grew up in Minnesota and we both went to college at BYU in Utah and Utah is where Crumble kind of originated and at that time there were several other cookie businesses there popping up and we would try them out. They were really good cookies, but Crumble kind of stood out above the rest. They're kind of the ones that shot up and so you know, we were consumers and we liked it. But I was studying construction management actually, and my wife was studying social work. We graduated, I got a job in Texas building homes and we moved out there and we were doing well doing that.
Speaker 2:But I've always had kind of an entrepreneurial desire. I've always kind of thought that the kind of life that I wanted was the kind of life where I would be a business owner. The kind of life that I wanted was the kind of life where I would be a business owner. And so I kind of always had, in the back of my mind, my sights set on that. But I was building homes for this company and I was enjoying it.
Speaker 2:I didn't love everything about that company and then we had our first kid. You know your priorities start to shift when that happens, so I decided that that was when we were going to go for it. I just started a little construction business. I wanted to just start with small end remodels, things like that in Texas, and I found out really quickly. I was just so naive that I thought that I could get that thing going and support my family really fast and so I quit my job. I started that business and three months later we're starting to get nervous because we weren't quite making enough to survive. And I guess I'm going into a lot of. Gave me a taste of the sales entrepreneurial kind of lifestyle.
Speaker 2:And I loved it, we were doing well. But my now business partner he's my cousin he called me up one day and just said hey, I have an idea, I want to run it by you. And he said have you ever heard of Crumble Cookies? And I was like, yeah, of course I love, I know, crumble Cookies, we love Crumble Cookies. That's the place where my wife wants me to go and spend $20 on a box of cookies or whatever.
Speaker 2:Actually, at that time I think it was only $10. He's like, well, I think it'd be really fun to do it. He's like I've got a couple of friends that have franchised with them and they're doing really well. So I said, okay, well, let's look into it, Despite it being a totally different industry than what I was used to. I've never done retail. I've never done food, In fact, in high school and stuff. I worked all my way through high school, college, everything, but I refused to do food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Never a server or anything like that. No.
Speaker 2:I just never wanted. I don't know what it was, I just never wanted to have to do that. But I really liked Crumble and I loved the concept. They have a rotating menu. That just seemed so smart and cool that you know every week we have new cookies on the menu and that keeps people coming back. It kept us going back because every week we want to try the new cookies, um, and rarely was there one you didn't like but um.
Speaker 2:So you know, despite they were doing really well in roofing sales, I was making more money than I ever had in my life. But we prayed about it and knowing that, like you know, even in roofing sales, someone's my boss, someone could wake up the next day and I could look at them wrong and they could let me go and I'd be trying to figure out what's next wrong, and they could let me go and I'd be trying to figure out what's what's next. And this desire to to be an entrepreneurial and entrepreneur and kind of guide my own life, we, we decided to go for it. We prayed about it and decided that this was, this was the right, the right move, and from there we could kind of choose. You know where we wanted to go. Of course we had to go through like the interview process to become franchisees and everything like that but um, yeah, it's been a really, really great decision for us and for our family.
Speaker 1:And how long have you been um with the company now?
Speaker 2:Three years Well, actually a little longer. We, we, um, we built the Palm Harbor store. That one opened, uh, little, a little under three years ago. We opened august, uh of 2022, okay, um, so, leading up to that, there was probably a year worth of prep to get us to that point. So we've technically been with crumble for like four years yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Where, where does your entrepreneurial spirit come from?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great question. I think growing up I I had wonderful parents, really great parents, and they both worked jobs. My dad went to work at, you know, nine o'clock, came home at five o'clock. My mom was a nurse. She she part-time while we were in school and stuff and we did well. But I saw, like one of my best friends growing up, his dad was a business owner and I just saw this kind of lifestyle that they had and I thought that that would be really cool and so that was kind of where it opened the door to entrepreneurship. How old were you when you first started this firm?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Because they were. He was my best friend like my whole life. They moved in when I was like two years old.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, and so I kind of just grew up with them, Grew up okay, but I also watched their business grow. So some of your earliest memories are with this family. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I would go on family vacations with them sometime Not that my family didn't have great vacations and stuff. I kind of saw this possibility and I kind of honed in on that. And then I would notice, as I was getting older, other business owners, they're living this other lifestyle that I was like that would be really cool and not just things and toys and blah, blah blah, but freedom. They're going on vacations, they don't have to ask someone for time off, they don't have to going on vacations.
Speaker 2:They don't have to ask someone for time off. They don't have to, you know. So, um, I just kind of always was like man, I hope I can make that happen, but I felt very much like that wasn't something I'd be able to do. I, I didn't have good grades in school. I I severely add, you know, and I remember like some of my earliest school experiences were that of, just like I can't do school, I'm not smart enough to do this.
Speaker 2:So, for a long time I just thought my future is to be a car mechanic or something like that. But I think where that started to change was when I was 19. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I went on a two-year mission and I went to England and basically knocked on doors, had some wildly successful mission where I baptized a whole ton of people or anything like that. But I think my belief in myself started to change and I think my faith had a big part in that. I believe I can do a lot more than I ever thought I was capable of, and then I was able to start applying that too, because the mission is kind of like sales.
Speaker 2:You're going around and talking about Jesus. You're trying to get people to accept you and accept what you're teaching. Sometimes your only success when you're teaching about Jesus Christ is that no one slammed the door in your face that day. But yeah, I think I just really started to get this belief in myself that maybe I could do more than I thought. And I also learned how to study. We spend hours every day studying scriptures and everything like that, and so I didn't think I'd ever go to college. I didn't think I'd ever go to college. I came home, I applied for BYU and I got into BYU.
Speaker 1:And then I was able to. I can't say I got great grades in college, but your skill set improved at that point, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. And so then I start looking at different possibilities of a career. I had no idea what I was going to do up until I was. I think I did two years of college before I realized I could actually study construction and the whole reason I ended up studying construction. I had a little bit of construction experience just from working through college and high school and stuff, yeah, right from working through college and high school and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, and what really got me into that is I had a really good friend that was studying it and he said school doesn't even suck anymore. And I was like what?
Speaker 1:You found a way to make school not suck, and I was like I'm doing it. I'm all in, yeah and it was great.
Speaker 2:I loved studying construction. Byu had an amazing program with amazing instructors, and what was really good for me is it wasn't just construction. You know, there was a lot of construction theory, but there was a lot of business theory as well with that and I got like there was one class that I'll never forget is I can't remember exactly exactly, but it was just business development and like the whole, the whole class.
Speaker 2:You know, you started from day one and you started developing a business, um, and we like developed a hypothetical, uh, car wash business oh, cool and and you take it from and you go as realistic as finding a real plot of land that's for sale, and then you develop this uh, hypothetical, whatever it is that you're doing. So we developed a hypothetical car wash and you know, you, you drew up plans, you, you made a budget, you know all, you did a marketing plan, all that kind of stuff. So those kind of experiences are what kind of helped me see that like I could probably do this, and so I think those all accumulated into at least giving me enough confidence to pull the trigger on something as risky as as starting a new business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Your story like reminds me. Did you ever read the book of rich dad, poor dad? I did. It's like to a T, almost like right Like you have this family friend that you know has this different lifestyle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, the rich dad yeah.
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Speaker 2:Yeah that's true. Yeah, I've never actually put that together, but yeah, it kind of is. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting, like I mean I grew up great Like we had everything we needed. My parents were very much like a live below your means type of family. So, we never struggled for anything, but I think I did grow up looking at what other people had, and when you're a teenager that's important to you. So I was kind of like man.
Speaker 2:I need to make more money than that. But I look back and I'm really grateful for what my parents have instilled in me, for teaching me to value money and everything like that. So I feel between those.
Speaker 1:I think I've been well-rounded, but I still have a lot to learn For sure, and I think I kind of grew up similar Both my parents kind of worked my dad retired Air Force, but went to work every single day. And my mom, you know, kind of worked my dad retired Air Force, you know, but went to work every single day. And my mom same thing. And there's value in having that structure and stuff, yeah, you know. But yeah, same way, Like I growing up and I don't know where mine came from, but I always, I just always wanted to own my own business and I just remember having that thought and that kind of stuck with me. And same thing I went through school not knowing what I wanted to do, end up getting a degree in biology because I thought I wanted to do something else you know.
Speaker 1:And then, um, and now I'm in real estate for the last eight, eight plus years. So, um, yeah, but the, the like you touched on it, like having the, the belief in yourself, I think that changes everything. That that, realized you know, gives you that, that, um, that thought of like oh, I can, I can do this, like I can do more than afford a risk, you know right, yeah yeah, I think that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I think I think about that a lot too, especially where, or now, what I do is, um, most of my employees are under 18, you know, um, and they're they're on the cusp of making these big decisions, and that's something that I love most about what I do now, um, although I'm not in the stores as much as I used to be, but helping them, like I feel they probably hate it because I probably offer way too much unsolicited advice, but like I want to help guide them and make those decisions and help them remember, like, know that, like, hey, it's okay not to know what you want to do, because I felt a ton of stress from the time I was probably. I probably started way too young stressing out, but at least from the time I was like 15 until I was 25, like, what do I do? Like how do I make the right decisions? What if I make the wrong decision? And you studied biology, you're in real estate, I studied, I started out. I thought I was going to do physical therapy.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's what I was going to do with my biology, yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I found out very quickly that I did not want to do that and we did, like a hospital tour. We went and interviewed a physical therapist and I didn't know that physical therapists some of them, like especially the ones in hospitals take care of like unhealing wounds. And they went and they showed us some videos and I almost passed out and I was like I don't want to do this and it's fun. My mom, my sister, you know long line of nurses in my family, in fact even my business partner now he's a nurse, um, but I just like blood pus taking care of people. Yeah, no I can't.
Speaker 2:So I've always known that that the doctor was not my, not my path. But I thought, you know, I liked exercising, I thought physical therapy would be cool, but yeah, um, but yeah. Then then basically I went into construction, just because I didn't want school to suck anymore. And then now I'm doing cookies, you know, and it's not that I actually loved construction and my goal is someday to make it back into it. But I think, like I mentioned, like I think you can't take your. Your decisions are almost never final. You know you can, you can change and you can't be scared to make the wrong decision, because you probably will and you'll probably be just fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, You're going to make the wrong decision. Yeah, and I think that's like you have to like you, you, you have to make those, you have to make decisions, yep. And then, whenever it's wrong, you just learn from it and move on. And then, whenever it's wrong, you just learn from it and move on. Exactly what did you learn from starting your construction business when you took that leap?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the biggest thing I learned from that was don't quit your day job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you quit before you even started. The company started, you quit your job. Yeah, I have kind of like a one-track mind I think, and so to me the thought of
Speaker 2:the start the thought of starting a construction business while also having another full-time job and you know, we just had a baby I was like there's no way. But I was like, but if I quit this job and I just go in full faith, 100 start this business, like I believe in myself enough to make this happen. Well, that's a good belief. But also maybe I could have done it a little smarter to where there wouldn't have been so much stress. But to the point we just made, was starting a business and quitting my day job the smart thing? No. A business and quitting my day job like the smart thing? No, but it led to great things despite it being not the smart decision.
Speaker 2:Like I don't know if I would have done that. I don't know if I would have gone ahead for Crumble.
Speaker 2:If you didn't have that experience Right, and I think I may have even think it may have been a confidence thing, like, okay, I started a business, I went through starting an LLC and I went through starting a marketing plan and things like that and I kind of saw the conception of a business. But I think there was an itch inside me that really wanted to start a construction business. And had I not just tried it, I might have been like, well, let me try to start this construction business. And had I not just tried it, I might've been like, well, let me try to start this construction business first, thinking I may still have that naivety of like I can get this going If I go all in. I can, I can really, I can really do well. Um, I thought it was pretty good at construction. I probably forgot everything I thought I was good at at that point but.
Speaker 2:I really thought I could. I could get it going and get it going fast. How long did you have that company? For? Not long, I mean, because once I my plan. So the way I got into roofing was, I was like I need something that I can be flexible with and I thought sales would be really flexible. By the way, I didn't mention this, but in college I also did door-to-door sales and so that kind of gave me some of the confidence to go into sales and stuff like that. Yeah, that's tough, yeah, pest control.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of those door-knocker guys that we despise, but it was a great experience for me. I did that for three years and it kind of really shaped my business mentality. But anyways. So, knowing that kind of side of sales, knowing the flexibility of it, I was like if I could do sales then if I get into roofing too, because in Texas it's kind of like Florida I know roofing is big in Florida but in Texas it's even more so because they get so much hail it's all covered by insurance.
Speaker 2:And so it's honestly kind of an easy sale too there, but you get a lot of roof rats is what we call ourselves. So anyways, yeah, so I got into roofing because I thought that I could do it and and continue building my business, yeah, yeah um, but I found out as I got into roofing I was like man.
Speaker 2:Actually, if I focus on this, I could make as much as any business owner and I've got pretty good flexibility being you know, my office was my truck and we drove around and and, uh, looked for bad roofs, knocked on doors um and as long as you're selling and making money, no one really jumps on your back.
Speaker 2:yeah, but um, but that was, like I said, always in the back of my mind, like I do have a boss and and he, he's actually a mentor to me still to this day um, but he was known to be pretty um, I don't know what the right word is hard-headed, I guess. Oh yeah, like you know, he's not going to give you a second chance if you do something wrong in his eyes, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I kind of felt I was always on borrowed time. But I mean, still to this day he's a great mentor, cool. But I think in a lot of ways you have to be a little bit that way as a as a business owner you know, the longer you let a problem stay quick to make decisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but um so would you, would you go back, Like, if you um today, like would you make that same decision quit your your construction job? Make that same decision quit your your construction job and start a new company, or would you?
Speaker 2:you? I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to trade the lesson I learned. So, if I like, but if I could go back today and know all the things I know now, I would do it differently? Obviously I would. I would, I would have kept my, my job.
Speaker 1:So let's say you're gonna start start another company.
Speaker 2:You keep Crumble and then yeah, and Crumble's different too, Because if I were to tell my boss back then, hey, I'm going to go start a, I'm going to moonlight and I'm going to go build houses on the side, they'd probably be like, OK, don't come back to work tomorrow. That's true to work tomorrow, that's true, but with Crumble it's totally. What process do I have in place to where I can open?
Speaker 1:up my time and do another thing.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we'll never get rid of Crumble. It's been a huge blessing for us. But yeah, that was a big lesson I learned. You have to take risks as an entrepreneur, but that's one of those things. You can also juggle more than you think you can. I think, but I don't know. Everyone's different, but for me that's proven to be true. I can. I can juggle more than I think I can. In fact, I find that I thrive more when I have more, when I'm more busy, when I'm when life is more chaotic, I can stay more focused.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's what I was gonna ask you. Like, what, what? Like, why do you think you can do that Right? Is it like focus, like you're just like locked in because you have to?
Speaker 2:be like there's no time for there's no distract. You can't, yeah, can't be distracted, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I find that too, like, yeah, when, when things get busy and chaotic and stuff, it's like there is no wiggle room in the conversations you have and the time you're meeting people and stuff. It's like it has to be. You have to be very disciplined in that you know, and it's almost like when you're, when it's not chaotic, like if you can translate that to those times too right Like, have that discipline and focus and stuff Like that's a huge skill.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, for sure, and I still that's probably one of my biggest weaknesses today is like when you get that free time, oh, you just want to sit down and relax. Yeah, but like, my mind even feels more healthy when it's busy and I can focus like that, because I'm not just like, oh, I'm bored, let me open my phone and scroll through this. It's like I need to do this. How do I make sure I get this done and all this? And then, at the end of the day, your head hits the pillow and you sleep like a baby because you're exhausted and you're focused instead of being distracted all day.
Speaker 1:Do you think you have to have?
Speaker 2:that sort of mindset to be an entrepreneur? I don't know. I think there's different degrees of entrepreneurship. You can be a lazy entrepreneur, that's true, and you might find a golden nugget that allows you to be lazy, but I do think you have to be able to do that, at least sometimes.
Speaker 2:Like for example yeah, like with crumble, um, right now where it's, it's not necessarily passive, I stay. I try to stay pretty active with all the you know, background operations and stuff like that. But I have a phenomenal general manager who runs both of my stores and, and that enables me to spend more time with my family. And I could totally be that lazy entrepreneur if I wanted to. But for me, I'm more healthy if I'm busy and active and things like that. So if I wanted to, I could be that lazy entrepreneur. But I do think you have to have some degree of high discipline, especially when you're starting out. Because when I started Crumble, I had no idea what I was doing. I'd never done retail, like I said, I'd never done food, and so I knew that I was going to have to be the general manager. So we just hired a bunch of employees and I was the general manager and I was figuring it out every day.
Speaker 2:um, those first few weeks, especially with our first store, um, I was putting in probably 80 hours, you know every week, um, and and I loved it too, because I was learning so much and and the business was doing well um, but if you're not willing to to grind for an indefinite amount of time, yeah, being an entrepreneur it's probably not gonna work out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. Um, I listened to like nick bear's podcast and watch some of his content or whatever, and he owns, uh, like a supplement company nutrition supplement company and he talks about, like he calls it, sprints, like going through sprints of of time where you like your business grows or whatever, and there's like certain times where you need to put in. You know you just need to be dialed into your business to to really help it grow right and it's and that's how you I think for him, like that's how he finds the balance in it, because it's not 80 hours for years on years on years, it's just for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, whatever that timeframe is, and then you can dial it back and then maybe you got to pick it back up again at another point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, I agree with that yeah, it was that.
Speaker 1:What have you, um, since we, since you know, opening up your franchise with, with crumble? What have you learned about business, like if you had one big takeaway about business?
Speaker 2:um, it's not. I think being a business owner has a ton of like it's sexy, right, like everybody thinks, like a business owner is really cool. Like, going back to how I grew up and saw, like anytime I saw like a wrapped truck, I just thought like, wow, they must be doing really well, that's so cool. And um, and then you, you find out that like there is such thing as being over leveraged, yeah, and and, and you might have a lot at risk. And, uh, you've got to make some smart decisions and you've got to make some big sacrifices sometimes in order to, um, make it happen for us. We took actually a huge pay cut to come and do crumble, um and um. And you know we're, we're in a small, a small home that you know. We in a small home that we rent. We're still in it, actually because the market's crazy. But, yeah, we have tons of business debt right now and like there's no guarantee, especially with crumble, you know questionable economy that we are kind of in right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Most people are going to cut out desserts, the first thing that that's to go out of the budget, you know. So you kind of have to live with this, like what happens, if, like what, if you know, and then I, and then I have to totally pivot. So you have to be willing to live with a certain degree of of, and uncertainty is probably the scariest thing that there is especially when you have a family and mouths to feed and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So you're constantly, always trying to figure out how do I make sure my business continues to do well, or how would I pivot? If I don't, will I have to go get?
Speaker 1:another job. So what goes into opening up a franchise? Right, because I think there's benefits. If you're going to go into business, do you start your own company from scratch, like you did with your construction company, or do you buy into a franchise that has this proven system and you just plug into that. There's benefits and drawbacks, plug into that. You know there's. There's benefits and drawbacks. I think to both scenarios Definitely. But what have? What have you enjoyed about the like buying into a franchise? And then that's what I want to ask you too is like what is that process like? Like you, you said like there's like a year-long process before you're even opening up your store. Are they? Do you get like a small salary during that time or how does that work? Yeah, um.
Speaker 2:So franchising is interesting, um and and many friend, not not all franchises are the same right. There's not really any rules to what they do and don't do. But I mean, the big obvious one is you have to pay a lot more. You know, even to get considered. You know you have to put up the franchise fee, there's net worth requirements and everything else. They want to make sure that you're a good fit.
Speaker 1:So they're investing in you as the individual, right yeah.
Speaker 2:And they don't want somebody who doesn't fit the brand, who's going to just get it started and then tank it. So I think franchising.
Speaker 2:I look back now and I'm super grateful, mm-hmm. Um, we love palm harbor, we live in palm harbor. Um, I, I've learned a lot about location selection, um, because, like this, this store is kind of hidden away in the target boot ranch plaza, um, and I think that's cost us quite a lot, but it it does okay. But, like, there was times um crumble when we opened palm harbor. Our palm harbor store is the top of the the crumble trend and we just killed it. But since that day, like for the next year, year and a half, every month, revenue is down, revenue is down, revenue is down. We're letting employees go left and right. And then I was like looking and I was like man, with these franchise fees, they're making more money off my store than I am.
Speaker 1:And so.
Speaker 2:I was like, just so bitter for a long time. So that's the downside of franchising, right, is you? There's, however, much red tape. The franchisor decides and crumbles very particular about their brand Rightfully so. It's a it's a great brand, but you know, for a long time, like you, you had to get approval for almost anything, even probably to do this podcast. They probably would have wanted approval. They've. They've loosened their grip a little bit since then. I think they're like we talked earlier they've only been open since 2017.
Speaker 2:That was their conception and they're still learning too. But yeah, you're like man, I can't do any marketing on my own. They want to approve everything that they possibly can, the materials they have. You can do a ma uh program and send out a bunch of mailers to everybody, send some coupons out, but crumble wants you to use theirs and it's, you know, like a dollar, a flyer and you're like there's no way, I'll send it to five people, I guess um, so those are the frustrating things.
Speaker 2:Um, and sometimes it would be nice to be able to just say like okay, like I, this is my business, I will decide how I spend my marketing dollars and things like that. But the the, the the upside of a franchise is is huge too. Um, you know, crumble does a very good job marketing. You know, anyone who's on instagram or tiktok has probably come across the Crumble ad.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they have phenomenal infrastructure. Our apps and everything are all in-house, and so marketing is not something I have to really even think too much about. Locally, I do a little bit. We live in Palm Harbor. I want to be, you know, part of the community. I want crumble to have a community feel to it. Most people just see crumble and assume, like you know, national brand, not local, whatever.
Speaker 2:But yeah but, yeah, we are. But but then, yeah, like to open it. They, they, they give you the playbook, they give you step-by-step support and for me that was really important and I think that's what also made me open to it. To pull the trigger is because I did start that construction business that I I think I didn't get to answering your question when you asked me how long I was doing that but I only did it for about three months and then I kind of just let it fizzle out because I was doing well in roofing and I could do more there. So I consider that a failure, but it's a failure forward.
Speaker 2:But I was like man, you have to have someone open the playbook to me and I'm very much like a business noob, like I didn't have anyone really in business in my family. I didn't really have any like business mentors. Everything I've kind of learned I've kind of just picked up and and learned about on my own, yeah, um, so I always kind of felt like at a disadvantage that way and so like having a franchisee to support me step-by-step all the way through felt huge to me and it's proven to be. You know, how do you get a lease? How do you find the right location, how do you build out your store, all those things the franchisee is like here's your support person, ask them any questions and they step-by-step get you there, and so that, I think, is a huge benefit to franchising.
Speaker 2:So I think like there's different ways. You know, if you're, if you're wanting to be an entrepreneur or start your own business, franchising can be a great way If you have the money to invest or have a partner that can invest with you and you're willing to operate. That's the situation we were in, as my partner kind of put up all the startup capital and I was the operator. So for me, it was honestly the best thing to go into franchising and I think it makes me more willing to try another thing on my own eventually Because now someone has shown me the way and I've learned so much.
Speaker 2:Now I can do it on my own, but also I've got the huge benefits of franchising, like not having to to worry too much about you know your marketing, um, because it's all taken care of and every franchisor is different. You might not. You might not have the marketing support that crumble does at a different franchisee franchisor, but um, but that's, that's great.
Speaker 2:You know, that's something most business owners have to spend a whole ton of thing. Uh, time worrying about um is how to market well, and for me, I I just have to spend time in the community.
Speaker 2:That's all I'm trying to do, um, but uh, yeah, that's a long way to answer your question. But I think there's pros and cons to both, like you said, to going out on your own or starting with a franchisee. I think starting on your own you need less money. You can find hundreds of companies you can start for almost nothing, but then you've got to pay that ignorance tax is what they call it. You know, like you're gonna mess up, you're gonna make mistakes.
Speaker 2:Uh, you're probably not gonna make money for a long time yeah but the payoff is, you get to keep a whole lot more of what you make.
Speaker 1:So yeah, um I think there's, yeah, um, there's almost like a thrill to, I mean, if you have like the capital to like make those mistakes and like struggle through, however long it takes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like your construction business probably would have been successful, like if you just had the ability to give it more time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know there's for me there's some excitement about doing that, like struggling through that and like figuring it out on your own sort of thing too, you know. But then there's also like the, you can just shortcut it and and I so getting into real estate, like I, um, I was that way, I wanted to figure it out on my own and I didn't want to join a team or anything like that. And, um, I joined, you know, berkshire Hathaway when I first got started, because they had training and support and all that, and I thought that was the way to go.
Speaker 1:And looking back, like if you would have joined a team, it's kind of like buying into a franchise, like they have their systems and everything in place their playbook and you get to see all that from day one as a newbie real estate agent versus you're just making a ton of mistakes and you keep failing. You try to figure out your messaging. Who's your ideal client? Who you're marketing to? How do you market to them?
Speaker 2:Like all these things that you have to work through, I think to do that too, like you can do it, but you have to be able to like get, because that can be very discouraging right, oh, 100%, oh man. I'm failing, I'm failing, I'm failing. Like what am I even doing? And you want to give up, like I think your mindset has to be okay with making those mistakes and and continuing on, um, because, yeah, it's discouraging. I think that's a something I learned a lot from, from being having done door-to-door sales. Is you learn?
Speaker 2:very quickly how to overcome that discouragement you know you get a lot of no's yeah, you got to get through 300 doors of people saying no before you find a yes. You know, um and and so like that. I think for people who want to get into business but they don't know how, I think getting into some kind of sales, uh, is a great way to get your, to get your mind right, build confidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're new to Palm Harbor? Yep, you came here for Crumble. Yep, how did you guys settle on Palm Harbor?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. So once we decided to do Crumble, most franchisees had an area they wanted to go to and it was usually where they lived and everything like that.
Speaker 2:I mentioned earlier that when we got into it we were at the top of the trend. So almost everything where we wanted to go was, or where we initially thought we wanted to go, was, sold out. Um, but um, florida was still pretty open, like so we wanted. We would have stayed in texas had we um had the option to, but when we got it with crumble they were like yeah, there's not really anything anywhere you can go here.
Speaker 2:um, where else would you want to go? And we're like, well, honestly, like we'll go anywhere. We will prioritize a good area over where we want to be. Um, and they you know, they had a guy that was over, um, I can't remember what they call them, but it was he helped all the franchisees select their locations. Um, he's like, well, florida's pretty open, there's some good spots over there. And we're like, well, living in Florida would be cool.
Speaker 2:And we had a couple friends that lived here. So we called them up and, hey, do you think Crumble would do well in Florida? What do you think? And at that time there was only one. There was one up in um Wesley chapel. Okay, and people here our friends lived in I think it was Newport Richie at that time Okay, and they're like, we drive, you know, 45 minutes to get to crumble. And they're like, and when we go we'll take orders of all of our friends around here and pick up all this. So I was like, okay, like it's going to do well, like let's go. And so we, we decided to settle on Tampa. We loved what was important to us as having somewhere that was, you know, family friendly, decent schools, decent, decent living. The thing that I had against living in Dallas, uh, was there was no recreation Like there is.
Speaker 2:if you wanted to go on a hike anywhere around Dallas, you were like going to some neighborhood nature trail you know, even to go to the lakes around there, you've got to pay to get in and go to the pay, the state park fee, and then you know, if you don't have a boat which we didn't have a boat, you know then you're just kind of like hanging out at the lake, which was fine. But I grew up in Utah where recreation is right in your backyard.
Speaker 2:You know, I grew up pretty close to the mountains and we could literally walk and be on the Rocky Mountains. It was amazing, that's amazing. So for me that was a hard transition. So the idea of coming to Florida where there's all these natural springs, you've got the beach and the ocean, I was like that sounds a little bit more like the lifestyle I'd want. Um, but all those things combined and and to to get us here, and, and we really looked at where's the? Where's the place where families want to be, where, um, where's the good schools? Where's, you know, all that stuff? Where's the tight communities? And, um, we kind of knew looking for for crumble locations. We were going to be like the saint pete, um, north pinellas area, north tampa, those kind of areas, um, and it turned out there was a lot of franchisees that had the same idea I did and there was already tons of territories sold oh wow, um, palm harbor, and it just seemed like just the perfect little community, and so our first store was here in Palm Harbor.
Speaker 2:And then we moved into Palm Harbor just because we thought this would be a great place to raise a family, and we quickly fell in love with it. We're now at a point finally, there's another point about being a business owner is you don't qualify for anything If you want to get a loan.
Speaker 1:You're 1099, man.
Speaker 2:You don't qualify for anything. It doesn't matter how much money you even made, you don't qualify. Yeah. But now we're kind of getting to that point where, okay, we can look around and try to find a home and make ourselves a little more permanent, but like we just love the Palm Harbor East Lake area, we don't want to leave. So you know, we plan to stay here because we just love it so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is it that you love about Palm Harbor? Like once you've been here, like, what have you settled on? Yeah, what is it that you love about Palm Harbor, like once you've? Now that you've been here, like, what have you settled on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, First of all, I think we've got a church family. That's just amazing. I mentioned earlier we go to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That building's in Dunedin, but all of our church members are all kind of in the Palm Harbor area that meet there and they're just so supportive.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think that is a good sample of the Palm Harbor area as a whole, like everyone's. Just, you know, people love their families and then it's great to be close to the beaches. Um, you know, you go to the beach and it's very family friendly. At the beach the kids can play in the water, you can relax. The things to do here there's tons of stuff to do for the kids, tons of parks, tons of carnivals, you know all that kind of great stuff. Um and um. To amplify that fact, like we just had twins I mentioned to you earlier.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally like three weeks ago we had twins.
Speaker 1:So now we have four kids? Are you sleeping Like? You look well rested.
Speaker 2:Oh, I do Great, yeah, no, not very much. Yeah, we they're. They're kind of getting synchronized a little bit better now. But for a while one would sleep and the other one would be awake. But our families my wife's family and my family have both been in town so they're helping out with that.
Speaker 2:Energy drinks go a long way too, but having that support was really important to us. As we've doubled the size of the kids in our family, we're like, okay, we need a bigger house. And we're like, okay, we need a bigger house. Yeah, um, and we're looking around and, um, the easy thing would be to go way north and go find a house in lando lakes. That's a little more affordable, you know, whatever, um, but um, we're like you know what we really like it here. We can make it work. We live in a little three-bedroom house. We can make that work for a while, and so you know, that's kind of the sacrifice we're making to be able to stay in the area. And the point I make with the twins is that, like people really came out of the woodworks to show us support. You know we've got people. There's not enough days for all the people that want to bring us meals, which is amazing.
Speaker 2:You know, anyone that's had a baby knows, like having some meals, not having to worry about dinner and dishes and all that other stuff is huge, massive. So yeah, we just really feel the sense of community here and since opening Crumble and since trying to get more involved in the community, just we just have such a great community here. Like you know, I'm a member of the chamber of commerce, um, and anytime I go to an event there it's just, you know, you worry going into something like that. Will I be accepted? Will, uh, are people going to be friendly? Am I going to make any friend?
Speaker 2:you know you know it's just a natural thing you worry about, but like they're so welcoming, um, everyone in the community has been nothing but but awesome. It does help. That crumble is such a fun brand because when I mentioned crumble, people are like oh, crumble the cookie guy you know, and that's been fun, um, but uh, but yeah, we just, we just really like being here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's something that's unique about Palm Harbor, like you mentioned, is the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That it's just different than some of the other cities around us. Like, I think there's more of a community vibe and community sense here in Palm Harbor. Maybe it's because of the schools, maybe it's because there's more families and stuff, you know, compared to some of the other cities.
Speaker 2:You know Part of it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But it is unique. So you have locations in Palm Harbor, and then where's the second location, in Pinellas Park. Pinellas Park, yeah, okay. Do you have plans for another third?
Speaker 2:location we do have, so we do have. So when we started Crumble, we paid to have rights to three locations.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Our third one was supposed to be in Bradenton, but part of the learning process is you learn what a good location looks like and what one doesn't location look like.
Speaker 2:And as cliche as it is for location, location, location, you know it's very true. And so with our third one, we're pretty picky. We found a really good location. There's a brand new costco down in bradenton. But uh, they've, they've kind of stonewalled us because, um, first of all, construction down there's there, it's a brand new shopping center they're trying to build. They didn't know when they would finish, construction costs were going crazy. But then in the meantime they've they've had some other uh like big box stores come in and they kind of pushed us out of that yeah so now we're kind of looking for other areas, but we're we're picky enough that you know we're not going to desperately just get anything we can.
Speaker 2:we're looking for an, a plus location to put our third store, and so far we haven't found it. So we'll see what happens there. Yeah cool yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll see. I think that's part of the business entrepreneur mindset.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of be patient, right Like you've learned what works and you just got to wait till you find that right spot. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, and what like. Then another point to to palm harbor. Like our palm harbor store is like the biggest thing that determines what we've seen so far. How well a crumble does is how close it is to other crumbles. Obviously because there are the only competition we have is other franchisees, and here in palm harbor we have stores all around us. There's a store in clearwater, trinity and west chase, and so really palm harbor is unique in that we really only get people from our community to come to us.
Speaker 2:We really only serve people in palm harbor, a little bit of dunedin, old smar and tarpon springs, which I think is kind of unique in that, like we're only serving members of this, this community, so it really is a community store. But that goes back to the point of, like, we don't want to put up another store that's too close to another crumble, that's not good for another franchisee, for one, it's not good for us. So, um, yeah, it's kind of a tricky, a tricky thing to figure out. But, um, but it's that's. That's like you said, that's kind of part of the exciting part of being a business owner is trying to figure out that.
Speaker 1:It's almost like monopoly or game of chess yeah, and then it's like, once you find it, you're're like, oh yeah, this is it, we got it, we did it. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Awesome man, kelly. Well, thanks for being here, thanks for kind of sharing your story and highlighting Crumble and stuff.
Speaker 2:So go buy yourselves a box of cookies. Yeah, yeah, thanks man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Donnie, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Palm Harbor Local. We are incredibly grateful for our sponsors who make this show possible. Jake, with Roadmap Money, be sure to support your local businesses and keep building community together. Until next time, stay connected, stay involved and keep making Palm Harbor an amazing place to call home.
