Palm Harbor Local
Welcome to Palm Harbor Local—where we celebrate the heart and soul of our community by sharing the stories of the incredible small businesses that make Palm Harbor thrive.
Hosted by Donnie Hathaway, a Florida native, real estate expert, and passionate community builder, this podcast is all about Building Community—connecting people, businesses, and ideas that shape our town.
Each episode, we sit down with local entrepreneurs, business owners, and changemakers to dive into their journeys—the dreams that sparked their businesses, the challenges they’ve overcome, and the impact they’re making. From brand-new startups to long-standing local favorites, we uncover what makes these businesses special and why they matter to the community.
Whether you're a fellow entrepreneur, a proud Palm Harbor resident, or someone who just loves supporting local, this podcast is your inside look at the passion, dedication, and creativity fueling our local economy.
Because strong businesses build strong communities.
Join us as we shine a light on the people behind the businesses, share valuable insights, and inspire you to engage, support, and grow alongside your community.
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Palm Harbor Local
How Chay Nott Uses Discipline and Discomfort to Build a Purposeful Life
In this powerful episode of Palm Harbor Local, Donnie Hathaway sits down with local creative and endurance athlete Chay Nott—whose journey from musical theater to photography to ultra-marathons is anything but ordinary. Chay shares his incredible story of personal transformation, driven by a commitment to discipline, self-awareness, and pushing past comfort zones.
Discover what led Chay to run a grueling ultra-marathon in the Florida heat, how a single message from a friend reshaped his purpose, and why he believes extreme discomfort is essential to personal growth. From building a freelance media business from scratch to training for Mount Everest-level challenges, this conversation is a deep dive into mindset, discipline, and the pursuit of potential.
Stroll through the laid-back streets of the Palm Harbor community with this informative podcast, proudly brought to you by Donnie Hathaway with The Hathaway Group, your trusted guide and local expert in navigating the diverse and ever-changing property landscape of Palm Harbor.
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Welcome to Palm Harbor Local, the podcast dedicated to building community and sharing inspiring stories from the heart of Palm Harbor. I'm your host, donnie Hathaway, and today we are joined by Cheynaut, who is a local artist who's done everything from graduation photos to filming for brands and artists. Now Palm Harbor Local is all about spotlighting individuals and businesses who are making a difference, overcoming challenges and fostering connections right here in our hometown. If you're passionate about growing together, getting involved and celebrating the individuals who are making Palmyra thrive, you are exactly where you need to be. In today's episode, you'll discover what inspired Che to run a ultra marathon in the middle of August, right here in Pinellas County. We'll also talk about how he started his career while knowing nothing about photography or videography, and also why he's constantly challenging himself beyond his comfort zone. Don't forget to connect with us on Instagram at palmarbalocal for behind-the-scenes highlights, and join our weekly newsletter at palmarbalocalcom. Now let's dive in and build community together. Shay, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brother, this is going to be fun. Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 1:We were just chatting about all sorts of things, but I want to dive back into the conversation about. It started with like time management and you know the idea of you working towards a goal or a plan that you have for your life. So I wanted to ask you like plan that you have for your life. So I wanted to ask you like how, how dialed in like is like here's, here's who I want to be and and this is what I'm working towards. Right, because we were just talking about, like, you know, every day you're making decisions to work towards that individual that you want to be.
Speaker 1:And I relay that like in my mind. It's like I want to be the best version of myself, right? So kind of similar concept. But like, do you have it mapped out of? Like here's who I want to be. And then like where did that? Where did that initiate from? Where did that come from?
Speaker 2:well, first with like the, I want to be the best version of myself. I see that as kind of like an amorphous term, that when I because I thought that way at first too and I was like, well, I want to be like a better version of myself. I'm like what does that actually mean? Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, who do I actually want to be? Do I? What are the traits that would make me a quote unquote better person? And in my own mind? And a lot of people just say, like, who do I want to be and what am I doing to get there and how close am I to being that person? Is that kind of what you were asking?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like, how did you sit down and be? Like, how detailed do you have it of? This is the person that I want to be. This is what I'm working towards. Detailed do you have it of of? This is the person that I want to be.
Speaker 2:This is what I'm working towards. When I, when I think of detailed, the first thing that comes to my mind is like I'm going to be, I'm going to have these traits, I'm going to do these things and this is how I'm going to operate, and I don't quite have it laid out that operationally. However, on more of a broad scale, I want to be somebody that says they're going to do something and then they do it to their fullest extent, with utmost integrity and I would say, and transparency the whole entire way. I want to do something, I want to do it well, do something, I want to do it well and I don't want to have any lies or gaps in truth in anything that I do. So what that looks like operationally, if I'm looking at like my every day, is a program.
Speaker 2:I told you before we started rolling that I was, I'm on a program I know called 75 hard and that's a mental, mental toughness and discipline building program and it's very intentionally built to be incredibly inconvenient so you can build that skill of making the decision to better yourself instead of what feels right or what, what, or maybe not what feels right, but like what's comfortable, what's fun, what's what, what whims we might want to give into, um, what might give us like joy as opposed what's fun, what whims we might want to give into, what might give us joy as opposed to what's actually going to make us better? And for me that means two things. It means having those traits of being able to make that decision, but also living what I would consider as the best example for other people. I want to be as athletic as I can possibly be, with as many trophies and accolades as possible, not because I want to be able to say, look, I'm that guy, but more so because I've realized that other people are heavily influenced by their immediate surroundings, much more than I think any people or individual person really recognizes. Because even like I don't have a huge following, I just have like a few friends, basically and posting about what I do. I've seen people actually message me and say, hey, watching you do what you've done has actually made me feel like if I put my mind to it, I can do it too. And I don't. I'm not a person of like influence, but I'm still influencing people and for me that's part of like the reason behind me being a better person.
Speaker 2:Now to actually answer your question about how detailed is it, who do I want to be and where do I want to go and what am I doing to get there? I answered it a little bit by saying I want to be a person who can stick to a plan. Who sets a plan, sticks to it with integrity and transparency. What I'm doing every day right now is, when I work out, I'm very honest with myself about did I put everything out, into, did I put everything into that or did I hold back in any kind of way? And I don't go 10 out of 10 all out every single workout, because sometimes I intentionally don't because, I know my life scenarios or whatever.
Speaker 2:Um, I try to uphold small things in my day to day with um, like, if I use a dish or something like that, I don't leave any dishes in the sink, or at least I try not to, and I try not to make that decision of allowing something to sit.
Speaker 2:If I do laundry, I try not to let the basket sit for more than a couple hours before I just get to it.
Speaker 2:A quote that I really like is we suffer more in our minds than we do in reality, and that quote I've been able to apply to every little thing because we think like, oh, I got to do this, I got to do that, I got to do this, I got to do that, I got to wash the dishes, I got to take the dog out, I got to put clothes away, I got to clean the room, I got to vacuum. All these little things. That when, when you get to it, it and they're, they're 30 minute tasks If you combine all of them into one, like 30 minutes to 60 minutes session, and then they're done, magic Right. So little things like that that I would say being as excellent as I can in every little thing in my life, so that if somebody were to walk into my house and view my finances and view my relationships and truly understood all of those things, they could truly look at me and I can honestly say I am doing everything that I can to live to the highest standard possible.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, and that comes in every decision that I make.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when does that? Where does that come from? Is that like, have you always?
Speaker 2:been this way, yeah, no, no, um, and what?
Speaker 1:triggered, what triggered it to to like or what shifted your mindset.
Speaker 2:So the desire to like, become better myself. I I've had a drive since I was like I don't know, probably 17 or 18. I wanted to have a business and I wanted to make a lot of money. You know, I want to be like a decade millionaire. I would love to be like I would. I really, really want that? Um, even more so if I'm blessed with that opportunity in life.
Speaker 2:But, that said, I wasn't really doing a whole lot to truly be better in my physical and my mental toughness, so I wasn't really going to the gym super often. I wasn't. I was never the athletic kid growing up. I was never the um. I was never the guy that would set a plan and stick to it. I started a lot of things. I didn't finish a lot of things and that created a tremendous amount of like anxiety and insecurity Anytime I talk about the things I was doing. I always felt like I was fronting. I always felt like I was being. You know I was. There were gaps, in truth, because I wanted to make myself sound, you know, bigger and better, and I don't know exactly where that insecurity came from, but I have it so I would say towards the end of 20, oh man, I think it was 2022,. I was getting to the end of a longer term relationship that I was in and I started trying to. I started listening to podcast I don't know if you're familiar with Andy Frisella, really so.
Speaker 2:I started listening to his podcast. I started listening to people like Rob dial, the mindset mentor. I started listening to Matt Graham some of his personal development content and some other folks that make very similar content to those people Gary Vee, whatever and they were saying, like you have to be this type of person in order to accomplish these types of things, and so I said, okay, well, if I want these things, I kind of probably should do these. And I didn't do them perfectly, I didn't know anything. So the things I thought I was doing that were actually helping, you know, you eventually start sifting out like what matters, what doesn't, what helps, what isn't, what's what's and I'm going to use a term that some people, whatever, some like things that are actually putting you closer to your goal, and like what's actually work and what's just like the mental masturbation of working right it's like what makes you feel good.
Speaker 2:So sifting out all of that over the last couple of years, that said, started going to the gym, a little bit more trying, and then breakup happens. I'm like, all right, well, now I have nothing, so let's go. That was very, very difficult on me and so I just went all in on the personal development side and it's been a slow process of just refining my knowledge base behind everything between working out, between eating right, between how to sleep better, between how to be more productive with the time that you're actually putting into things, get more outputs for your inputs. And then that was all in an effort to be better myself, because I wanted to be better. Then I think it was late 2023 or early 2024.
Speaker 2:It was sometime in there. I think it was after 75 Hard the first time, which was November and December of 2023. Shortly after that, I got a message from somebody because I had been posting about trying to build a business and my freelance network and my personal development and everything that I was just trying to build up my life overall. And I got a message from one person in particular who I'd worked with previously younger guy, I think he's probably 21 now, 20, 20, 20 or 21 now, it's probably maybe 22. It doesn't matter. He messaged me and said hey man, watching you do what you've done and build what you have, which is like almost nothing like it's nothing, you're just showing it's literally nothing.
Speaker 2:I'm just showing that I have become better than yesterday. Yeah, but he's like watching you build what you've done has made me feel like if I commit myself, I could do it too. And I don't know why that message, that text message, hit a little differently, but for some reason I really quickly felt that my responsibility is now no longer to myself although it still is, but it's mostly to the other people that are watching, because I realized in that moment, and probably about three to six months after that, I really realized the impact that you have to your immediate network and your immediate circle and even like second and third degree removed, just by being a little bit better, just by becoming a little bit more fit, just by showing the sensitive details of personal, professional, romantic and otherwise. And so, to answer your question about where it came from, it started in, I would say, late 2021, mid 2022.
Speaker 2:I kind of started maybe going to the gym a little bit on and off, not consistently. I hadn't built the skill of discipline. That was the main problem. And then, late 2022 into 23, really went into it 2023, I think, 20. Late 2023 was when I really like.
Speaker 2:Okay, I am becoming a disciplined motherfucker and that's what I did with 75 hard, and the mission changed when I got, when I realized how it impacted other people. So now the mission isn't just about like I don't have to wake up and say, oh, I want to be better, so I have to get up.
Speaker 2:The mission is now like other people are watching and I'm letting them down by not getting up and going for this run right now, or getting up and getting this project out the door, doing what I said that I was going to do yesterday, and letting other people down and showing other people that it's okay to also not follow through with their word, which is not the example that I want to set.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you think disciplines like that one trait? You know, if you can conquer discipline, if you can be a disciplined individual like you can accomplish what it or whatever it is you want.
Speaker 2:I don't see why not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you can, if you can set a plan, that is actually good and you're not doing a bunch of useless stuff.
Speaker 2:But if you can set a plan and do it over and over again and be totally honest with yourself that you did it without exceptions for a long period of time, my understanding is that it's highly unlikely that you won't accomplish what you want to, because that's what I'm working towards, that's the direction that I'm trying to go. Obviously, I haven't achieved those things, but my life is dramatically better than it was two years ago and so, using that as an example, I'm like all right, well, somebody has like zero, absolutely nothing. Then I can tell you with confidence that discipline will take you to a much better place, because I'm in a much better place. I can't say that it's going to make you a millionaire, but I have a hunch that it will, because that's what a lot of very, very financially successful people talk about is the discipline that's required to do something like Alex Ramozy talks about. You have to do something that's exciting until it's boring and then keep doing it, because when it's boring is when everybody quits.
Speaker 2:But when you keep doing it, you will do more than those people who quit, but then you just have to keep doing it over and over and over and over, until you could do it in your sleep and you could like, yeah, once you, once you get to that point, then you just do it again, and then you do it again, and then you're like, oh, this is awful. And then you do it again. Yeah, so uh, that I have a hunch that it's gonna get me there. But I would say discipline, is it? It's funny, once you, once you become disciplined in a way like I wouldn't consider myself the most disciplined person because I'm still actively working on on making better decisions for myself day in, day out, but I have developed a higher level of discipline than a lot of people.
Speaker 2:and it's funny when you start to develop the skill of discipline, you start to notice in every single way and I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, because it bothers the hell out of me, but how non-disciplined the rest of the world is. So I see everything that's wrong and I'm like oh, this really pisses me off, I hate it. Actually makes my life significantly less pleasant because I can only see flaws everywhere.
Speaker 1:But do you find, like some joy in being like disciplined, like doing the thing that you actually say you're going to do, Like is there some? Do you find joy in any of that?
Speaker 2:I want to discern really quick joy from fulfillment, because a lot of people say, you know, I just want to be happy, I just want to have joy, I want this, I want that, and to me those are emotions, and emotions change and if I am feeling bad, angry, sad or anxious, therefore I am not joyful, therefore I'm doing something wrong, which is something that, for me, I don't. I don't use that term.
Speaker 2:Most often I'll say fulfillment because, even though sometimes I'm not feeling the best. Yes, I am incredibly fulfilled every single time that I like. I said I'm going to do something. I fucking did it, and now I can look at everybody and say I did it. Piss off.
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Speaker 1:I feel like working out is a perfect example of that right, because I think for most people, there's really nothing fun about lifting weights or going on a long run, or whatever right, there may be components of it that are fun or enjoyable and stuff, but I would say probably 90 plus percent of the time I'm doing a workout I'm not looking forward to it, like going into it. Yeah. And then after it you're like damn, that felt good.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad I did that.
Speaker 1:Which is interesting, but um so any. So you said you listened to some podcasts and stuff to kind of really jumpstart this, this path, like any books that you've read, that that have stood out to you.
Speaker 2:One of my all time favorites and I'll give it out to. I want to yell this from the fricking mountaintops um extreme ownership Jocko Willink. Have you read that one?
Speaker 1:I've um. I never finished it. I listened to. I have an audio version of it Dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like the concept of extreme ownership bleeds into discipline in so many ways, because you can look at something and own how to, and figure out how to own it so that you can take accountability for the how to then change it. And the discipline is in taking that accountability and then changing it, and so they're, they're, they kind of go both ways. That book is one of my all-time favorites because now, whenever I look at a situation, I pretty much take blame for everything I I. A phrase that I like to use is I, I take blame and I give credit. So if anything good happens, it was external and if anything bad happens, I'll. I own that a hundred percent. Um, and by external I mean like if something good happened between like whatever we were doing here and it's like yeah, donnie fricking crushed it that
Speaker 2:was amazing, wouldn't have happened if I didn't have him, or wouldn't have happened if this didn't happen. Or you know, like I give the credit, take the blame and I can look at pretty much every scenario and say, yeah, I could have done this better. That's what I'm going to do next time and that's the whole. Concept behind the book is how they use extreme ownership in the military to build stronger people and stronger teams, because everybody was taking accountability for their own shit and then fixing it and then being a bigger contributor to the squad, and if all of them are doing that, they're just building a more and more powerful unit. And then they went and applied that to business and realized that when they applied these extreme ownership concepts to business, it worked the same way that these businesses started to become more efficient.
Speaker 2:Problems disappeared because they were being fixed by people who were taking ownership for those things, as opposed to just bitching and complaining about the concept or the idea or the problem existing. So that is one of my all-time favorite books. I really liked oh man, what is it? What is it called? There's another book by oh Andy Frisella has a book on the book on mental toughness.
Speaker 1:I like that one a lot.
Speaker 2:It has a lot of examples on mental know, when somebody had literally nothing, they still did it when they felt like this that was tough, you know, and that took a lot out of their mind. And so that book is a really great example for people who want to kind of learn what mental toughness is and then apply it to discipline and make the next step forward. But Extreme. Ownership and the book on mental toughness are fantastic. Yeah, yeah. Oh, another one the Comfort Crisis.
Speaker 2:I forget who the author of that book is I forget who the author of that book is man. I wish I remembered because it's a great book. It's this guy who realized how comfortable he was and ended up taking a, I believe, 30-day excursion into, I think like Antarctica or something, with this guy. And they flew to Antarctica, got dropped by a plane and they were in the middle of nowhere, like the nearest city was like hundreds of miles away, so like the only option was survive, you know, and they talked about going from point A to point B and through that the 30 days they're traveling, they're trying not to get mauled by.
Speaker 2:You know the grizz b and through that, the 30 days they're traveling, they're trying not to get mauled by you know the grizzlies they're trying to um hunt and they might not get anything for like three days or four days. So like they're going on just consistent, day after day after day, and then they got a thing of food and then another 72 hour fast or something like that.
Speaker 2:And they're like the how they had to ration food and like what true hunger and true boredom and true discomfort actually is. And I really liked that book because it it takes a an extreme version of what we might call like a Masogi or something, where it's doing something where you have a 50, 50 shot of success or failure and it takes it to it's just an absolute, absolute extreme. It's like some people might just like they might do a murph or they might run a half marathon or a 5k to make themselves a little uncomfortable but, like that was a extreme version of discomfort, to just put everything in perspective.
Speaker 2:And I love those things. I'm a huge fan of extremes. I love to just like I would love to climb Mount Everest someday and that's just a goal that I have. That I'm like, yeah, why not? That book does a great job at outlining the comfort crisis, as the title says, in our modern society. Yeah, with everything. I love that book. I really liked that book. That's really good.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I haven't heard of that one before. I'll have to check that one out. But yeah, I mean that's um, it's so easy to be comfortable um in in here in America, right, like we have so many things that we take for granted every single day. Um speaking of, like the putting yourself in uncomfortable situations like you just ran um what was it the? Was it going more ultra? We did the the four 4.2 mile loop. Tell me about that experience. That was fun.
Speaker 2:That was super cool. So I'm disappointed in my own performance, but everything else about the experience was absolutely phenomenal. Being around that many just straight killers was so awesome. Like I was the weakest person there by far, it was crazy.
Speaker 1:How many runners did they have?
Speaker 2:A hundred, and so it was marketed as 125. And. I think there was like 132. Cause like maybe I think there were a couple of special invites.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or like people. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe like some oversell, I'm not sure, but I remember seeing on the scoreboard on the first lap, 132. Okay, so I think that was like the final, the final total. It was so cool, and so the concept is like you have. You have 4.2 miles to run 60 minutes you have 60 minutes to run 4.2 miles and get back there's, there's a home base and there were two loops that equaled 4.2 miles total. Okay, and so you did the first loop, which was, like, I think, 1.8 miles yeah and then you did the next one, which was a little bit longer.
Speaker 2:It was like 2.4 yeah, or something, no, yeah it would have been like 1.9 or in two point whatever yeah anyway.
Speaker 2:So you had those two laps and you had 60 minutes from when the bell rang to get out there and get back. You had to be in the corral when the bell um rang to start that lap or you got disqualified. You had to finish. You had to be in the corral when the bell rang to start that lap or you got disqualified. You had to finish. You had to be back before the bell rang to not be disqualified. You had to start and end within that 60 minutes and if you didn't do any of those things you were disqualified.
Speaker 2:So it was so cool, the Texas heat they don't lie about that, man it's brutal yeah like that was the first time like I'm conditioned to train here in florida yeah that texas heat was the first time I really felt like I might just pass out here, I might fall over and not know you know, is it humid there too, or is it just like it was a little? Bit. It was a little humid, but it was just really hot the sun.
Speaker 1:There was not a cloud in the sky, just like it was a little bit. It was a little humid, but it was just Just really hot.
Speaker 2:The sun. There was not a cloud in the sky for like three hours straight from like 1pm to 3pm. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like awful, yeah it was horrible, and you started at noon. We started at noon, yeah.
Speaker 2:The first lap was kind of tough because my body was just getting warmed up. I did it in like 50 minutes, so I'd like 10 minutes, eight to 10 minutes of rest. And then the second lap was horrible. I was like I don't think I'm going to finish this.
Speaker 1:Like, I don't think I'm going to finish this.
Speaker 2:It's like a second lap. I'm not going to make it Third lap amazing. I was like I was on fire. I finished with like 15 minutes. I was just kicked back at rest. I was like, dude, this is easy.
Speaker 2:Fourth lap horrible Again, like I almost didn't finish again and I got back with like four minutes left on the clock. I finished in like 56 minutes get back. And I had a crew there, wonderful people, chris Ray, alan Peyton all of them did so well and they took great care of me. But I basically would just run up, sit down, get a bunch of fluids, get a bunch of food and then they're like all right time to go. I'm like shit I had to go.
Speaker 2:That experience was so incredible. They took amazing care of us. It was a really expensive learning lesson for me, which I'll get into in a minute, but the experience was just incredible and the endurance there and the mental fortitude and the mindset of those people. It was incredible feeling like I was the weakest one there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so cool yeah, what is it like? Um, like stopping and starting, like is that? Is that more difficult than than just continue continuing on and running an?
Speaker 2:ultra. I actually think it was very helpful yeah like I don't know how far I would have made it if I, if I didn't if you had to keep going.
Speaker 2:I liked the concept of this doesn't end until we all quit yeah you know, I like that concept and I don't know how far I would have been able to go just continuously if there was no end in sight and it really like there was. There was some moments where I needed that like two and a half minutes just to like sit and get those fluids in and like be able to take that. I'm sure if it was continuous the strategy would have changed and I would have known what miles I needed people at, and so the strategy would have changed modestly, but you're still resting probably if you're doing like an ultra, anyway, right, sure, I mean like when I did the ptc um ultra back in august
Speaker 2:yeah like we had kind of a resting yeah thing there where, like we met up with our crew, we took two and a half three minutes just to like, cool off for a second, get fluids, get food, get carbs, and then we would be back at it once we felt good you know, it might be three, four or five minutes, so the strategy just changes that's all.
Speaker 1:Would you do it again? 100, I would love to I.
Speaker 2:I need time. So what ended up happening?
Speaker 2:like some history with me and like the ultras which you are aware of, kind of my story with, like the pcc and the knee injury that I had because of that and because my my knee for context 2023 went all in on 75 hard, went from basically doing a little bit of gym and a little bit of stuff here and there to working out every day, lifting weights every single day and running every single day at least three to four miles, like going from zero to a hundred, like that. And the problem with that is that I've never been an athletic guy, so my body was not built for that. Ever been an athletic guy, so my body was not built for that. And I started to kind of get some pains and injuries and I injured myself just doing like an 18 mile long run prepping for my first marathon in April of 2024. And I was like man, that sucks, but like I'll push through it. Such an immature runner Ran that marathon in April, got kind of like an injury in my right knee that I bounced back from in like four weeks, then three and a half four weeks in my right knee that I bounced back from in like four weeks, then three and a half four weeks trained up for another relay half marathon in June.
Speaker 2:And then August comes and that PTC comes and I'm like all right, well, you know 46 miles like I should probably be able to do that just fine. Right Mile 25, something weird starts to happen with my T band on the side of my knee and I'm like this feels strange and I said it on camera. I had somebody there recording me throughout the whole thing and I was like, yeah, there's something going on with my knee. That. I didn't like.
Speaker 2:By mile 27,.
Speaker 2:I couldn't run anymore and I walked the last 19 and a half miles of the of the race on a knee that I couldn't run on for more than you know 10 seconds. It was awful. And then, by like mile 30 or the arches of my feet felt like they were going to explode because I didn't have I have higher arches and I didn't have arch support, because I didn't know anything about shoes and I didn't know the inserts existed. And so, yeah, all these learning lessons. That said, I have brutally beat my body from 2023 up until the g1m. Yeah, so what happened to the g1m was I was doing loop after loop after loop. I was feeling good, I was feeling bad, I felt good, I felt bad.
Speaker 2:Like it was just this mental game it's like you feel great and then all of a sudden you feel awful and it's just back and forth, and back and forth. And then I started to feel the exact same sensation that I felt at the beginning of the injury during the ptc in the g1m.
Speaker 2:I started to feel that at mile like 32 or 33 and I was like this is about to happen and I was like you know what, put it out of my mind and until it's a problem, I'm not even going to think about it, because where attention goes, energy flows, I'm not gonna don't care and I just kept on going was singularly focused on the trail cooling food nutrition mile like 34, 35 I'm like that's creeping up again by mile 36. I was part of. I was halfway through the nose, but like mile 34 or 34 and a half, cause I had just started the last loop before I decided to call it and I was like I literally can't.
Speaker 2:I can't run without it hurting and the last time I did this, I was out for six months. I can't do that to myself again Cause it was one of the worst times, like mentally, for me not being able to do the one thing that gave me mental clarity, which was run because of an injury that I got from running.
Speaker 2:And then I would get into a negative headspace because of the injury and I hated myself for it. And then I couldn't go out and get go on a run to clear my mind because I couldn't run because of the injury. So it was this awful cycle and I uh, and I bowed my out of the race.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. I'm sure that's mentally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, caleb was proud of me, but it hurt. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's tough, Because I've been there before too, where you have some knee pain when running. I feel like if you run at all, like at some point you're going to experience some discomfort.
Speaker 2:And the reason I said it was an expensive learning lesson is because I flew three people out there paid for a B&B, paid for all the supplies for me to actually be there and be fed, and all of my nutrition and stuff, plus the entry for the event. Actually, wait, no, I don't think there was a cost to the actual event itself. No, there wasn't a cost to the event, it was just the process of getting there, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they took great care of us. They had a food truck on site that was totally free, like they didn't they took great care of us as runners, and it wasn't crappy food either it was great, it was good food. Um, it was free. They sent us products. They allowed us to just have bpn products and stuff for free on site.
Speaker 2:It was super, super amazing yeah but it was a super expensive learning lesson for me because of those plane tickets, the Airbnb costs, the associated travel fees of, like car rental, um the the food and nutrition, plus bowing out. You know like, yeah, I was in the race for nine and a half hours, but or nine hours, but it was did you?
Speaker 1:did you have a? Um a goal in mind of like how many miles you wanted to get in?
Speaker 2:I intended to go until they had to find me on the trail. Yeah. I was fully dead set on, and actually I was just going. My mindset was just I'm going to go. I'm going to go until I can't go. And then Caleb during our last adjustment, when I was walking out of the office, looked at me and said, hey, make them find you on the trail, and I was like out of the office looked at me and said hey, make him find you on the trail.
Speaker 2:I was like got it. So then I went to that thing and I was like they're gonna fucking find me on this goddamn trail like. I, I'm, I'm not leaving this place until I'm on the floor. Yeah, well, my knee hurts, yeah which I didn't expect.
Speaker 1:What. What did you do? You know like exactly what, what happened or what's going on?
Speaker 2:I think it was my IT band um that just like was stressed and strained up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was my IT band that just was stressed and strained, tied up. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it was just stressed and strained because it was like right here, right where the IT band is, where it crosses the knee, and I don't know. I never got a scan or anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, no idea.
Speaker 1:So you, just work through it, let it rest heal yeah.
Speaker 2:And so the learning lesson was my body needs to be prepared before I do things like that. But to answer your question about the goal, um the the, I had like 300 miles. I had like 150 to 200 miles. I was like, yeah, it'd be cool if I did that. But like my real internal goal and like that's what I told everybody, it was like 150 to 170 miles. I was like I'll be, I'll be, you know great publicly if I can do that. I'll be, I'll be, you know great publicly if I can do that. But my internal goal was like could I go for like two and a half three days? And that's exactly how long the guys that won actually ended up going. They went for about two and a half days, they went for about 200 and I think it was like 60 miles or something which is insane Awesome.
Speaker 1:Insane. It was so cool and didn't they have to call it because I remember following weather yeah, like they just had like some flash floods, like crazy flash floods, like life-threatening would have swept them away like so they were still going?
Speaker 2:yeah, they were still going yeah and they would have, they would have kept going for sure I think they would have hit 300 insane. That's wild man I truly think they would have hit 300 before before.
Speaker 1:Those guys are killers. What's your? Was your longest race, the um 46, yeah, 46 yeah yeah, but do you like ultras, or or, yeah, do you like running the ultras? I mean, I don't think I don't think anybody like is like oh I, I, well, maybe some people right enjoy this right, but like, what do you get out of it? Like why do? Why do you keep doing it?
Speaker 2:Partially because I'm proving to myself that I can do the hard things, because I've went so much of my life not doing anything that was really difficult and like when I did something difficult, I was like, yeah, that felt good, but like I didn't intentionally put myself in uncomfortable situations.
Speaker 2:Very often the ultras are my way of putting myself in intentionally uncomfortable situations to grow my mental capacity for extended suffering, and that's my, that's my goal with those.
Speaker 2:I enjoy them as a method of doing that. What I found is that I don't love. I don't love how I start to like look, when I start to train like when I was training for the PTC and then when I was training for the G1M like you lose a lot of muscle because you're just running all the time. So it's like in order to maintain the muscle, I have to work so much harder in the gym, actually lifting heavy weights to like maintain my body composition, Cause what I noticed was when I was marathon training more aggressively, my muscles would kind of go away and then I would gain a little bit more fat, which is normal, because your carb increase like dramatically, or your carb intake dramatically increases. You can keep your protein intake as high as it can, but to get all the carbs in like you can barely eat that much, unless it's like your sole focus and I struggle with that.
Speaker 2:So when I would look at myself in the mirror and I'm like I hate how I look right now, I still looked very good, but I compared to what I wanted and where. I could be. I was like I hate this, but I love the outcome of the ultras, so I think I'm going to explore some other options. Like I might try to compete in high rocks is in like 26 or 27.
Speaker 2:I might compete. There's a couple like oddball, random challenges that I think I'd like to do, like there's this one race that's like I think it's six miles of just swimming or something. Like just six. I think it's six miles of just swimming or something. Oh wow, it's like six miles down a river or something and I'm like sure why not?
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's give it a try.
Speaker 2:Let's give it a shot, Things like that that I'm like I just want to do hard shit and do as much of it as possible. Really would like to take up mountaineering. I think that would be sick. Yeah. Not like legitimately scaling walls. Mountaine I would love to climb mountains. I think that'd be sick. Like I said, I want to climb Everest at some point.
Speaker 1:I do feel like there's um like that, like putting yourself in difficult situations or doing things that are uncomfortable like that translates to like everything else in your, in your life.
Speaker 2:Well, the harder the things that you do in my experience, the harder the things that I've done, the easier it is for me to say no to the things that I know I'm not supposed to do Like scrolling, like not waking up to my alarm.
Speaker 2:Like those little decisions. Like if somebody invites me out to go anywhere and I just don't really want to go, but I've always felt socially obligated to go to those things. When my time is asked for and it's not otherwise obligated to other things, I've always just said yes. It makes it a lot easier to say no when you're used to being uncomfortable. Because the level of discomfort that I got when I thought my feet were going to break in half during the PTC, or when I thought my knee was going to be out again, and that stress during the G1M or the heat exhaustion that I felt during the relay race that I did in July, like all those things, have put me into positions where I'm like, all right, well, somebody asking me for my time. That little bit of anxiety that I might feel by saying no is nothing compared to literally crying on every single step because my feet felt like they were going to break. It was awful. But yes.
Speaker 2:I think that it translates and I like extreme examples of those things because I want to see how far I can go before I like actually break legitimately. And those goals don't scare me either. The funny part is like even when I say climbing Everest out loud the first time I ever said that, I was like, oh, that's a big one. But now like I say it and it might just be like my ignorance to hard things Cause, like maybe.
Speaker 2:I don't know what actually like hard, feels like. But I'm not intimidated by those goals. I'm only learning to respect the process for getting to them. You can't just jump into those things which is a bigger learning lesson for me is patience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. I like that. Do you think you have to put yourself in extreme like hardship, or extreme difficult situations to to like master yourself, or or master like discipline?
Speaker 2:That's how I've done it. My only thought to that would be well, if you're going to experience suffering regardless, how are you going to handle the involuntary suffering without putting yourself through some of those situations voluntarily first? So we only have a certain amount of feelings that we can have.
Speaker 2:We can only be sad, anxious, angry, fearful and slight variations of those things, and everything that we do can stimulate one of those things. Things and everything that we do can stimulate one of those things. So, if you're going to deal with, if you're going to deal with, losses of people that you love or, um, whether it's death or whether it's like breakups, divorce, whether it's losing a huge financial opportunity, losing a shit ton of money, whether it's losing a friendship, whatever those things are, getting a house foreclosed on all those hardships that would break somebody down, how much better could they handle themselves in those situations if they are familiar with dealing with anxiety, anger, sadness, fear, in a state of exhaustion, mm-hmm, in a state of exhaustion.
Speaker 1:So it's almost like you're training yourself right, Like the races and stuff are training yourself to better handle life's challenges. Yeah, and then you have to prepare for those races too right, or prepare for those extreme difficult moments.
Speaker 2:They're just not as hard now, like life isn't as difficult now because I've done some things that are harder than life is Now.
Speaker 2:My life hasn't gotten easier because now I'm training for these things.
Speaker 2:My every day is harder now because I'm training harder to be able to do those things.
Speaker 2:So, like my life is physically harder and because I'm doing those, but my, my life, in stimulus versus response, is significantly easier because I'm more used to and accustomed to stress and dealing with those stresses and because when you do something that's that physically strenuous and like I can't, I can't speak for people that do a hundred mile races, 200 mile races, that do triathlons, ironmans and things Cause I've never done any of those but just as somebody who's run a 46 mile race, a 39 mile race and then a handful of marathons, when you put yourself into those places, you have to become very comfortable with your own brain as well with your own mind who you are, because that's all that's really left once you've broken down the walls of the identity that you try to front, because you cannot fake who you are when you are that exhausted, when you are that malnutritioned, when you are that dehydrated, who you are really shows, and you are forced to think about those things in the solitude of the race, the moment when you don't have somebody to talk to and you're not listening to music like you have to think.
Speaker 2:You have no other choice, and I really liked the clarity that I got after the emotional releases of the things that I was holding onto, which I have all of this on GoPro, cause I was recording the whole race on a GoPro. I have the whole thing documented in a 27 minute documentary on my YouTube channel and I was recording all of it, and there's just moments where I'm just like talking to the camera about things that I hadn't thought about in a while, because it was just like I'm just getting everything out.
Speaker 1:And after that race.
Speaker 2:Like I was in physical pain, but my emotional site was so much better because, I had to face a lot of things that I hadn't faced before.
Speaker 1:And that was helpful. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. So, beyond all of these physical feats that you've done and stuff, you're a photographer, videographer.
Speaker 2:I'm a marketer essentially.
Speaker 1:A marketer.
Speaker 2:Who's just good at camera stuff. I'm a marketer, essentially a marketer who's?
Speaker 1:just good at camera stuff. How did you get into that?
Speaker 2:my background is in musical theater and performing arts, so I actually love like singing and dancing on stages. That's like my. I love it. It was my whole life for like six years up until 2020, and that whole industry was one of the first industries to be dramatically impacted by the, the pandemic and stuff that went down, and I just wasn't willing to play ball with all of the restrictions and we'll call it rules.
Speaker 2:They put on people in that industry being vaccinated 36 times before you went in the vicinity of anything, had to wear 14 masks. It just wasn't. That's an exaggeration, of course, but not entirely. But I wasn't willing to play ball with those things because they just didn't. That's an exaggeration, of course, but not entirely. But I wasn't willing to play ball with those things because they just didn't align with my values. And so I took a step back and went into the photo video thing. I had no idea how to use a camera, really.
Speaker 2:No experience Not really I started I was doing like graduation photography, but that's very cookie cutter. They tell you what settings to use, how far away to be, what the light should look like. So, like I knew nothing about it, I just knew how to do the basics with photography specifically, and I had done that for like four or five years. 2019, I started to play around with like some freelance gigs because I knew something I've always kind of understood is proximity opportunity. I knew that if I was next to something where an opportunity was being presented, I could eventually get into that opportunity.
Speaker 2:So with musical theater, for me, I wanted to know how to be in more films, on more stages and playing more roles, and I understood that if you were around it, you were more likely to get the opportunity than not. So in my mind I was like well, this thing that I know almost nothing about, but more than no, more than somebody, is the camera. So how can I be around all this stuff more? Well, it's taking photos of stage productions and it's taking photos and videos and doing like behind the scenes or promotion for short films and whatever. So I did that a little bit. I didn't do it very much, but I did it a little bit, because I did it mid to late 2019, had like two or three opportunities to flex that muscle and try, and then 2020 comes around, pandemic hits and I'm like, well, all I have left is this thing that I kind of started doing, which is the camera. So 10, 12, 14 hour days on YouTube doing that.
Speaker 1:Just learning, just learning yeah.
Speaker 2:Trying, failing, trying, failing, thinking I was great, not being great and it eventually molded into I found Gary Vee as one of my first influences in like the content world and so I was like maybe I could do video and create short form content, created some videos that were the worst videos I've ever created in my life, and then it's it's just been a building game of like learning skill after skill after skill, becoming a better videographer, becoming a better photographer, learning more skills to compliment those things and like what can I do to make those things more valuable to people? And and how can it be structured in a way that you know I can actually help more people out? And what is the things that I actually enjoy making? Do I want to make social media content? Do I want to make promotions? Do I want to do events? Do I want to do weddings? Do I want to do like what industry? What type of content in that industry? What role do I want to play with that content in that industry? Just learning everything, just throwing as much spaghetti at the wall as possible and seeing what do I like, what do I hate. And I definitely found some of those things Like some things I really liked and some things I just absolutely despised. And that was the goal. It was really just to learn, but that's kind of that's kind of where it came from.
Speaker 1:How did you go about doing all that? Is it just like okay, let me try.
Speaker 2:Let me try wedding photography, Let me try, I went into every single person's DMS and said, can I shoot free photos? Like every single person that I knew. I was like, hey, I want to do this, Can I take? Like? I had some friends that had businesses that were in their more infancy stages, between like year one and year two, and I said, can I make some photos and videos for you? And just I just want to learn like don't even, don't, pay me, Don't do anything.
Speaker 2:Um, can I do like your senior photos? Can I do your senior photos? Can I do your event? I'll show up and I'll just phone for free, like one of my biggest some guy that I work with super often. His name's Trey Lowell. He's a fantastic guy, no-transcript. I went to an event and I saw the videographer there, which was Trey. I didn't know him at the time and I just I was like that's, I didn't know anybody at this event. I just went because the one person I did know, who was involved in the organization, paid for my hotel to be there. He was like I just I think you should be here. I was like okay. So I went, I met the guy, the videographer, and I was like you have a camera, you're my people. So I walked over. It was like hey, what's going on? Man? You know how are you? Um.
Speaker 2:Che, I do camera work. Um, we linked and then I started doing events after that. Um, and that's just. That's like the one. The opportunity side of things is like it's your one conversation away from what's happening, but to answer your question. It just came from me messaging as many people as possible. Let me do this. Can I make this for you? Don't pay me, I just want to do this. Can we make social media content? Can we make a music video? Can we do this?
Speaker 1:yeah, do that. So yeah, I like that. It's um, obviously not everyone's in that position where they can like let me, let me do this for free, but sure I think it's a great way to Well.
Speaker 2:until you're good, you have to be in that position.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You can't charge for dog shit work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because your reputation is going to go down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you didn't go to school for any of this.
Speaker 2:No YouTube University baby, Right yeah.
Speaker 1:So, and what do you like through that learning process and trial and error and stuff like what have you learned that you enjoy doing? And like, what is your focus currently, because that might change in a couple years, right, or you think you're pretty set on well, it does change because naturally, as a person, your interests change.
Speaker 2:So then it comes down to is what you're doing working? And if it is, are you disciplined enough to continue to do it, which this is my theory at this point. Now it's not been tested too hard. But to answer the question about what I'm actually interested in, to this point, I've kind of found two things that I really am enjoying and I'm liking, and they all kind of surround one thing, which is I am a little bit of a data and analytics nerd.
Speaker 2:I found that I really enjoy learning about how to convert the most attention, and for me that's views and that's dollar signs for conversions on products.
Speaker 2:So what I do most of the time is I make ads, photos and videos for e-commerce businesses to sell products, and when they tell me what ads work and what ads don't, I really like finding and figuring out why social media content or ads do better and why they don't perform and how to like kind of game that system. I really enjoy that. The second thing I really enjoy working with artists. I found a interesting little niche where I create short form social media content for artists to promote their music, and my content performs exceptionally well for those people and I've leaned into that really hard. So I have this great client base up in Nashville that I go up there about once a month and film with them for five or six days, take care of them, make a decent amount of money doing that, and then I come back and I focus on that. But among those things, I also really enjoy events, because I love working with people and I love hyping people up. I love working a crowd.
Speaker 2:I love working a crowd which I think that goes into my like musical theater background. I love crowd response, working a crowd, getting them all riled up, making people smile, love that stuff, and then creating a piece of content from there that makes people feel something and makes other people who weren't there feel like they were missing out. It falls back into that attention game of like how can we create the best piece of content possible that makes people go yo, that was sick. It makes them want to come back next year, sell more tickets, things like that.
Speaker 1:Cause.
Speaker 2:I've had people that have used my content to legitimately sell more tickets than they did the first year the next year because of that content that we had. That's fun to me.
Speaker 2:I really liked the advertising side of things. Then I started running ads to book myself clients specifically for like the artist thing up in Nashville. And then when I saw when I made ads and not only like when I made ads and sent it to the brands and then they sent me the analytics back and said here's what happened, like that's fun. But when I could put my own money into meta with ads that I worked on and created intentionally for some reason and then literally minute by minute, watch the metrics change, I'm like this is fun. This is fun. I like this a lot.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that you enjoy like I would think it's interesting to have like the creative side, but also like the analytical side too, where you, you know, find joy in that and obviously you have to understand that. And, yeah, where do you think that comes from? Like, if you, as like the data, like, has that ever been of interest to you? And anything you've done before maybe just ties into the creative, like like, oh, I created this and it's working I don't know that just shows proof that like what I'm doing is.
Speaker 2:I've been, like we'll call it hyper fixated on things before, where I get a lot of excitement from like problem solving, which I think it bleeds into like I love problem solving, I love producing and what I found in like even the business side of it, where I service the e-commerce businesses, when I was putting together like productions and stuff like, yeah, creating the content was fun for me, but I really enjoyed the process of producing and what producing is is you are essentially in charge of you're the firefighter of, of the crew, like if something is happening, somebody is not there, you're in charge of, like, finding replacements, you're in charge of fixing things that break, you're in charge of booking and creating the entire thing, making sure scheduling is aligned and all that jazz.
Speaker 2:So I really enjoyed the firefighting aspect of it. I read this book recently that I actually I think I read it like two weeks ago. I read it for the second time. I read it once, like I don't know two years ago, and I didn't know enough to really understand what the book was actually meant for, and then I read it again recently and I was like, oh, Rocket Fuel.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Yeah, have you read it? I haven't read Rocket Fuel, but Traction is like the Rocket Fuel is like the EOS system.
Speaker 2:Rocket Fuel? No, no, no. Rocket Fuel is the difference between visionaries and integrators and businesses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's same Gina Wickman, is that who wrote it I?
Speaker 2:think so.
Speaker 1:So, gina Wickman, so like they have this concept, this model, this EOS model of like running a business, like integrators, visionaries, oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah yeah, so. Traction is like their book that lays out, like the blueprint of, like, how to operate, how to run a business. Yeah, yeah, well, the visionary integrator thing, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, the visionary thing, yeah, the reason I bring that up is because I always thought that I was a visionary, because I didn't know enough about actually like doing the active business. I just thought that I was doing business because I was a freelancer that made money Like that's kind of business, but like not really that's just making money as a person, and I was like, yeah, I'm a visionary because I have all these ideas but I had never done anything and I still really haven't done anything. But like I understand a little bit more about business now to be like, okay, I wasn't really whatever, so I had to have the ideas because I was the only vessel driving forward.
Speaker 2:So I was forced to have a vision, um, but I actually have found that when given, when given the choice in a bigger scenario, I had to audit like the last two years of my life and I didn't know it at the time. But now hindsight, looking back, I was like I really think I'm actually an integrator, like I think, like I love the public attention and I am somewhat of a personality and I love doing that. But I really really like the operational nitty gritty and learning about that. And maybe it's just a current phase and once I've learned all that stuff I'll go back to being visionary. I have no idea, but right now I'm in much more of like an integrator heavy interest phase where I'm like I just want to learn how to put things together and problem solve and create things that work operationally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting that you bring that up. I think, like I, I think their concept too. I think you know Gino Wickman would, they might've say this in the book or whatever. But, like, like every business, like you, can't they? They think, operates the best right With a visionary and integrator that are at the top of the business structure. Yeah, you obviously, like, if you're just starting a business, the chances of you having both of those in place from day one are pretty slim, right? So you and I are operating as a visionary and integrator, like in our current business and stuff, right, it is interesting, like to try to decipher, like as a business owner, like what, which role do you fit better into? Like the visionary or the integrator? I think you have to learn, even as a visionary, I think you have to learn like the day-to-day operation stuff so you understand what's what's happening in your business and how to leverage people and that sort of stuff too.
Speaker 2:Well, my hunch is that it just makes you a more effective person in whatever category you're in. And this is this is kind of hypothetical, because I understand it in like when I, when I was in musical theater, I knew how to do almost every single job with the exception of like lighting. I knew how to do almost every single job and that made me better in my role as an actor, because I knew what needed to happen for those people, what those people needed me to do, and so it was just done. And the same thing for being on production. I've done most of the jobs on a production set, with the exception of I think I've never really been a lighter, a grip, because I'm not as good at lighting, or gaffer or grip, I forget.
Speaker 1:What is that Like?
Speaker 2:you're holding somebody, holding somebody somebody that can, that can create and shape the the scene with lighting okay and I've never been exceptional at that, so I've never done that role, but most of the other roles I've done, and it makes me better because I know what needs to happen for those people, and so I know two things. One I know what I can do to make their life easier before they need to tell me that they need it, or I know when they're not operating at a higher enough level so I can actually audit what's going on around me as well for operational inefficiencies.
Speaker 1:Where do you see your business going from here? Where do you want it to go?
Speaker 2:Super interesting. Right now I'm in a bit of a transitional phase, so because of it's super interesting, so I want to be very, very clear with people that are watching this so that I'm not putting any weird like pedestal category. My business has never done more than $120,000 a year. So I and that is with very low margins because the, the the media industry is typically very difficult to make a lot of money.
Speaker 2:Yeah industry is typically very difficult to make a lot of money, and the agency model, specifically, is very difficult to make good margins in. So I haven't made a tremendous amount of money and I haven't done a tremendous amount in that category. So, with that being the preface to this, I'm actually in a little bit of a transitional phase right now, because I stated earlier that my goal is to make a tremendous amount of money, become a very financially successful person, and with, as long as I'm staying within the moral and ethical you know bounds that I've set for myself, that are things that I'm not just I'm not willing to compromise on. That said, the agency model and this is only like the last couple weeks doesn't really make sense to do that at all the way that I was doing it To be like a marketing agency?
Speaker 2:Yeah To be like a marketing agency that will ultimately. I was a. I was a production agency that would handle the creative side and then hand it off so that somebody else could market the assets. So I wasn't actually doing any of the marketing myself, so we were just the creative outlets. So they would come to us, they say we need these photos, these videos. We would do it all, send it and then their team would handle the rest. We did that well, but margins are low, the time needed and the time demand super high. So the drag was crazy, operational drag was crazy and it just doesn't make sense as a model. So the last couple of weeks I've actually been thinking, like you know what, to have more leverage doing what I do, what I. What I found was that I as a person am a decent marketer myself. I'm good at creating the assets myself, because anytime I've tried to outsource it, it just kind of goes down. So I'm like I should probably just lean into chain not being an effective marketer, and step away from trying to do that work for a ton of people and just take some level of ownership in one or two things and just spend all of my time doing that and then maybe I'll focus on growing like my own business or something, when I'm maybe like 26 or something like just spend the next couple of years focusing on one or two things, have stake in the outcome and really actually learn what it's like to make more than a hundred thousand dollars a year because I've
Speaker 2:never done that and I have theories about what that's like and I know what videos do fairly well. But the big shift for me was I had this idea of like well, I know that if I can make somebody else $10, I can make one. So I just need to learn how to make people a lot of money and then I can make a lot of money right behind them. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then somebody who's significantly more wealthy than I am and successful than I am brought up to me. They're like, well, why make the dollar when you could have partial ownership in the thing that's making 10? And that was a kind of punch in the face, not in a bad way for them, but it was like oh, I now have to think of this a little differently. My goal is to make money. That's not a bad thing, and the vessel that I'm doing it through right now just doesn't make sense to do that. So, to answer your question about where do I see the business going, I'm actually like doing away with the agency completely. And.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to be pursuing like, not shots as an agency. This is the first time I'm saying that out loud, publicly no-transcript so one of them is a personal brand that I'm directly partnered with. Yeah. Somebody who has a much bigger following than you or I do, and the other one is an e-commerce business.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah. So just creating content for those companies.
Speaker 2:Just strictly being the marketing asset in both of those bodies. So for the e-commerce business, what that looks like is I'm going to take a look at everything that they're doing and everything that I've learned from working with dozens of brands prior to them, and everything that I've seen work and not work, applying it to here, seeing in true real time if a lot of these theories I had actually work, iterating on those, learning what it actually takes to market effectively and then growing that brand as big as I possibly can, Because the bigger that I get, that, the more money that I make, the more money that they make, the bigger the business gets, which is a net positive for everybody because I learn, they win, I win and it's good. The personal branding side we're trying to figure out how to monetize this brand this guy's built over the last 15 years.
Speaker 2:So we're trying a few different things, but it's they're two very different models, but both of them are intended on making money and helping people, and so if we can do both of those things, I think that I can market effectively well, and I want to see how the marketing principles differ between those two bodies and what I can actually do and really learn, cause, like, I know a few things, but I don't know much in retrospect. In comparison to somebody who's built multimillion dollar businesses, I don't know anything.
Speaker 1:Right, Right. So, but you know, you know things around like your niche, like marketing and that sort of stuff. I think so A little bit a few things, probably probably more so than the business owner themselves, right.
Speaker 2:Uh, in some instances I've had some suggestions that have worked fairly well and some instances I've said things that have not worked well at all. So, yeah, yeah, there's sometimes when I get a business owner that just has no idea what they're talking about and those people are very obvious and then I get somebody who knows more than I do and I'm just a vessel for their vision. That's not entirely uncommon either where they're like we need this, we need this, we need this. I'm like yes, sir, yeah what's um, um hermosi?
Speaker 1:I think he talks about this right like he. He likes for, like his businesses, like he likes the idea of of hiring an agency or hiring somebody who does something that's really well, that he wants needs in his business yeah learns from them and then and then, you know, makes that a part of his company, transfers it over right as the agency.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a great idea, yeah, honestly. Yeah. It's a really idea. Yeah, honestly yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a really efficient way to do that, without bringing on a full-time employee and then training them and then hoping that they'll do the right thing and train you how to do it Like it's. Yeah, his idea is super smart. Yeah. I think as somebody who doesn't know anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it makes sense because then everybody, everybody wins, right, right, the agency gets a partner for five years, however long it is, and then, as a business owner, you're learning how to operate your business more efficiently, more effectively, to make more money.
Speaker 2:I think, so I think that I think that that's a very effective it seems like an effective way to do things. I've never done it, so I don't know yeah I don't know if it actually works, yeah, but it seems to for people that do a lot more than I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah all right. So, circling back to the um, like personal, personal development stuff, sure, I want to ask you this one last question what are? Because I think this is different. This is like what I.
Speaker 1:So I got into personal development, like when I got into real estate, and I read a bunch of different books and everybody has like their own way of like here. Do these five things to you know, live better, to be the best version of yourself, or whatever. But what I've learned is it's like those five things, or whatever number there are, are different for everybody, right, and times a day when you're doing them, how often you're doing like all that's different. Times a day when you're doing them, how often you're doing like all that's different. And you have to find your own things that work for you, that feed you know what is it, what it is that you're trying to accomplish. So, for you, what are, what are your like? These are the five things, four things, three things, whatever it is that make me that I have to do daily, to make me the best version of myself.
Speaker 2:With that type of question, it's pretty easy to fall into what's your morning routine or something similar to that. Right, it's like what are the things that you do every single day? Otherwise everything's fucked. I don't. I wake up, I caffeinate and then I do what I need to do. That's pretty much it. My foundation and my baseline is, if something needs to get done or I say that I'm going to do something, it gets done, and just making sure that I'm doing those things A system that I've found that works very well. Andy Frisella has the power list system.
Speaker 2:You make it the night before and then you work on it the next day, planning your day the next day, what you're going to eat, where you're going to be, what you're going to work on for how long. Those are very effective tactics. I don't think it's so much what you have to do every single day. There are things that I've done that helped me, and for me, I cold plunge most days. I have a freezer that is converted to be a plunge at my house, and so I use that to get a to get a plunge in most days, cause I think cold exposure is a great way to wake your body up. It's a great way to expose your body to a high dose of cortisol, which is good for you first thing in the morning. So that's something that I do, but it's by no means necessary, like I haven't done it in a little while, um, so it's not like a necessity.
Speaker 2:I try to get as good good sleep as I can, so I did as many things as I could to like optimize my sleep. I wear a mouth tape at night and I wear a nose strip, and if there's light pollution, I wear an eye mask, um, and then if my roommates are watching a movie in the other room. I wear earplugs so I'm like literally closed off to the world. Um, and that I found I can wake up with less sleep and more energy because I get deeper sleep and deeper REM sleep most nights when I do that.
Speaker 2:So, I started doing that more regularly when I I work out almost every single day and people are like, oh, you need rest days, Shut up, Like, yeah, you can rest and be intentional about it. But for the most part people use that as a as a crutch or an excuse to not work hard, and that bothers me a lot.
Speaker 2:So I think it really just falls down to discipline. If you say you're going to do something, do it, and if there's something that's going to help you and you have the means to do it, you should probably try to figure out how to do it. And for me that was like the mouth taping the cold, plunging the, the.
Speaker 1:Getting good sleep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, getting good sleep.
Speaker 1:Working out.
Speaker 2:I think most of most of what I've found has made my life better in how I feel and how I am able to focus. Has focused on if I eat right, sleep right and train right. Has focused on if I eat right, sleep right and train right. If I put good food in my body, I train properly, and often physically, and I recover properly with good deep sleep and I don't fuck any of those things up.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty good, you're feeling pretty good.
Speaker 2:I'm doing okay and my baseline is good and I can pretty much do everything else that I need to. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, there's not really like I don't think you have to like make your bed every day, do this 14 step morning routine. I think a lot of people get caught up in like these five things from most, most people, what I. This is what I've heard online from like who mostly talks about it? Andy talks about it, a lot of people talk about it and then when I applied it to my life, I was like, oh my God, it's true Crazy.
Speaker 2:Most of what successful people have is not from what they have that you don't, but from what you have that they don't. It's distraction, it's things that are taking your time away from the things that actually matter and your time away from the things that actually matter. And for me, I had to get very, very, very, very honest with everything I was spending my time on, everyone I was spending my time on and everything that I was doing and how it actually impacted bottom line. Because, at the end of the day, if you are not getting stronger, then what you are doing in your physical exercise is not working. If you aren't, if you are, maybe it's also a nutrition problem. If you're not making more money, maybe the things you're spending your time on are not effective. And of course you have to think of time horizons and like if you don't get, of course if you do something you're not going to see money the next day in most scenarios but you have to be honest about that as well the timeline of how long you're willing to do it before it's considered a failure but,
Speaker 2:you have to really audit, like what are you doing with your time? People will be like oh, I work a lot. Like I have one person who I can think of that works all the time and has these huge aspirational visions. And I'm like you watch a movie four days a week at night and then you struggle to wake up in the morning because you were up until 1130 instead of going to bed at nine when you were tired but you still wanted to watch the movie. Little decisions like that.
Speaker 2:I'm like if you really want something, you just have to be honest with what's actually going to get you there, eliminate everything else and just do those things. It's like, if you've committed to something, do that, but outside of those actual legitimate commitments, don't do anything except for what's going to get you closer to the person that you know you're supposed to be and the goals that you want to have. That's what I've done. That's what I did in 2023 to become the person I am now and it's what I continue to plan. It's what I, what I, what I plan to continue doing from now until I get to where I am, until I'm proven wrong. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people probably struggle too with um being clear on what it is they want to accomplish or who it is they want to become too, or not understanding that they need to change in order to achieve the goals that they want to achieve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something that I used personally was a lot of people have like the what would Jesus do? As like their moral compass. I have the what would Hermosi do if? Given my situation. He probably wouldn't go and do that thing.
Speaker 2:So, if I want to be more like him, I probably wouldn't do that thing either. If I want to be more like Gary Vee, I probably wouldn't do these things. If I do want to be more like Gary Vee, I would probably go and do these actions, and for me, comparison was a huge vessel for me in my decision-making. When I didn't know anything, I didn't know what was going to get me to where I wanted to be, but I knew I wanted to be kind of like these other people who had a successful life that I kind of wanted to emulate in some way. And so I do the things that they talk about doing, or use the what would they do as my funnel for decision-making, until I knew enough to start making some of my own decisions about what I kind of believed was going to get me there. And that's what I'm now able to speak on.
Speaker 2:As, on the discipline front is like I know that if I make these decisions, I'm going to become this type of person and I'm going to continue to hone in on on my ability to make the decisions I know I'm supposed to make in the moments I know I'm supposed to make them, irregardless of how I feel about that decision in the short term. Make a decision when you feel good, stick to it when you feel bad and your life will ultimately be closer to where you want it to be. But I didn't know that. Four years ago.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that four years ago I only had the North star of people who did what I did better than me, and that's part of why I take so much personal responsibility when I realized how many people were watching, like, even if it's just three people that are watching me, as like, if Che is doing it, I can do it, or would Che do that? Probably not, so I shouldn't do it If there's anybody using me as their decision-making funnel. That's why it takes so much responsibility. In that Cause I realized how powerful it was for me, for the people that I was paying attention to, so I plan on trying to do the same thing for the people that are behind me, because it's our responsibility to live that example and bring other people up in that in that way.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think that's a great way to to start right. If, like you don't know what you want your life to look like, like, find somebody who is is living that life and do some of those things right that they're doing.
Speaker 2:It's like trying to find what you love, what you. What do you want to do? What do you? Want to spend most of your time doing.
Speaker 2:I was fortunate to try a few things and find photo and video pretty early, or find musical theater pretty early, and find photo and video pretty early or find musical theater pretty early. But a lot of people don't even try to start doing those things and they never experienced the fact that they hate it or love it because they don't do the thing. You just have to try a lot of different things in order to get closer to finding what's going to work for you, and that also stems from people don't try to move their life in any type of direction because they don't know what to do, but they're not willing to look at these. There's a few trails that are already blazed in the forest by these people that are making content for free on the internet talking about how they did it. Maybe just start there and then you can start blazing, like they have a 20 mile trail that they've it. Maybe just start there and then you can start blazing, like they have a 20 mile trail that they've created.
Speaker 2:You don't have to follow it exactly, but you can at least use it as a starting point and then, six and a half miles in, start kind of blazing your own trail, realize that was the wrong direction, come back, get back on their trail and then cut a trail from where they are over to Gary V's trail at mile eight. And then you're like, oh okay, like that makes a lot of sense, let me go here. And then you go to go on that trail until mile 11 and a half and then you cut over and you start to create your own trail and then all of a sudden you've got your own 20 mile trail that you've created but you don't have any of the knowledge unless you started on somebody else's trail. I think for the most part for me worked, at least I like.
Speaker 3:I love that analogy yeah, yeah, I kind of like it too.
Speaker 1:Actually, that worked that worked pretty well because but yeah, because it's. I mean you're 100, right, like you just gotta. You gotta start somewhere and it's just like okay.
Speaker 2:Um when, you know nothing, piggyback on somebody else's knowledge until you know something and accept that when you think you know something, you don't go further and what somebody else knows to discover what you actually don't know, and then you can act on it. It's a huge thing that I struggled with for a long time and I still catch myself doing it, and it's something that is a consistent effort. When you think you know something you don't, it's like when you think that you know something, like Alex Hormoi talks about and I right now I'm in a heavy phase of like doing what hermosi does and that's like I'm using he's like a huge decision making funnel for me right now, but he talks about doing something for an abnormally long period of time without convincing yourself that you're better than you are, and that was something that I fell into like crazy just over and over and over was like I'm this great marketer.
Speaker 2:Three years ago I thought I was a great marketer. Wild concept like I didn't know anything and you have to be able to understand that. Like you're going to make incorrect decisions.
Speaker 2:But forward towards a wrong decision is closer to knowing what the right decision is than not moving in any direction at all yeah and so it's just when you use those people, when you don's just when you use those people, when you don't know anything, you use those funnels, those people, as your decision-making funnel. Then you make a decision and then you think you know something. You try to make a decision on that knowledge that you think you have. You realize that it might still be the wrong decision. So you have to go back to the drawing board, re-figure out what decision you should have made, why you should have made it.
Speaker 2:I've just become relentlessly obsessed with the self-analyzation of the ideas and decisions that I've made, the concepts that I have, the thoughts that I have. Something that my dad actually instilled in me super, super, super early was thinking and being self-aware with the thoughts that are going through your head, why you're having them, what it makes you feel as a result of having them. Like somebody cut too often traffic. Your immediate response A lot of people anger. A lot of people fear. A lot of people, whatever. You can go back later and kind of have an after action report of like why did it make you feel that certain way? Like I don't really have a lot of actual physical emotions that I feel when I'm driving anymore?
Speaker 2:because, I've actively worked on. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I used to be like fucking hitting the steering wheel for real, for real.
Speaker 2:It was awful, it was terrible it was a horrible, horrible way to live and you have to be comfortable with looking at what happened and saying, okay, do I have to feel that way? Because, ultimately, nothing really matters at the end of the day, like we're just here on this earth to do things and so nothing is really a quote that I've used that has helped me get through some more stressful, better times. Whatever has just been. Nothing is ever been. Nothing is ever a bad decision if it brings you to where you are. Nothing is really bad if it brings you to where you are and if where you are isn't dead, you have a second shot.
Speaker 2:So is anything really a good thing or is anything ever a bad thing? They give us emotions and we have Rob Dial talks about in his podcast. Between stimulus and response, there's a space, and in that space is where you get to choose what the response is. So you have something that happens to you. I sat down here. You felt something. Whatever that thing was, you can choose whether or not to acknowledge it or not. Promosi's extreme example of that is like if you have a family member pass away like, what would it take for that to be? Like? It sounds strange, but what would that? What would it take for that thing? To be the best thing ever.
Speaker 1:It's a really weird kind of twisted thought experiment.
Speaker 2:But is it really a bad thing?
Speaker 1:We're just conditioned to think that certain things have, we should feel a certain way or act a certain way.
Speaker 2:And those things might be painful, and I'm not saying you don't have to look at like death and stuff as a non-bad thing, like death and stuff as a non-bad thing. The argument there is that we have predetermined descriptions of or prescriptions for circumstance when in reality we get to decide if something's good or bad and how much it affects us, based on how much work we're willing to put in and how vulnerable we're willing to be with our own mind. And most people are super uncomfortable with their brain. Most people are not comfortable sitting in it. Like you see it all the time with people who just cannot sit still and not be on their phone right now, like I've done podcasts with people who would have had their phone right here and they're just checking, checking, checking.
Speaker 2:I've been at dinner with people where, like I'll leave my phone in the car and like they'll have it and they'll just like check it or whatever. Or if we stop talking and there's just like a moment of silence. Something my dad taught me very, very, very early was we had it's super, super strange and I didn't appreciate it at the time, but now I really, really do he would literally practice silence with me. Like let's just be like, let's just be like, let's just practice being quiet for a while. How old was it, how old were you? 12?
Speaker 2:okay yeah, 10, 12, 13, 14 and just practice being being silent.
Speaker 2:And now I'm very comfortable with there being silence and it's not uncomfortable like if we're sitting here, I can just sit, I can look around the room, I can just look at the camera and I'm very just. I don't have any weird feelings about silence, but people just cannot stand there being silenced. They have to do something, or they feel they have to do something and so they act on it and they get so much anxiety from that, or if it's like if somebody asks a question it's like God forbid they have to be in their own mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can going to have a response like immediately right and I'll spend a lot of that silent time just thinking about past experiences, Like why did I think a certain way? What?
Speaker 1:did I say earlier.
Speaker 2:It sounds strange, but I literally all the time am just going back and reassessing stimulus in my response, why I felt a certain way, why I said a certain thing, stimulus in my response, why I felt a certain way, why I said a certain thing. I'll literally replay conversations in my head and go through scenario after scenario of different conversations how things could have gone worse, how things could have gone better. What would I say if they said this? What would I say if I said that? And people, one huge thing that people compliment me on at like events is I'm very quick witted and I'm very good at working a crowd. I have played the scenario of somebody talking to me and working a crowd in my head hundreds of thousands of times. By the time I like even sometimes out loud to myself in the car. It's super weird, but I've rehearsed that scenario thousands of times. I've assessed my thoughts hundreds of thousands of times.
Speaker 1:So where does that piece come from? Is that just something? Did that change when you started listening to your podcast and trying to be a better version of yourself? Or is that something you've always done, because it's self-awareness or or whatever?
Speaker 2:whatever it is there the skill set was built, or the foundation for the skill set was built, by my dad doing those silence exercises and talking to me about being aware of your own thoughts and then facing your thoughts and confronting, not not confronting. You never said it in that verbiage, but it was like if you have anxiety, why are you feeling fearful? If you feel sad, why are you feeling sad? It's not a bad thing to feel any way, but why? What is it there for? And can you control it? Can you mitigate it? Can you not respond that way? Do you have to feel that way? So the skill set was built and I don't think it was fully utilized until I started diving into trying to be a person that I could be more proud of. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like could I actually vouch for myself and would I want other people to vouch for me? If other people vouched for me, what would they say? Or if other people were talking about me, what would they say? Who am I If they knew every single thing about me that I know about me? How would they say? Or if other people were talking about me, what would they say? Who am I If they knew every single thing about me that I know?
Speaker 2:about me how would I be described? I didn't like the answer to that most of the time, not because I was a bad person, but I was a. I wasn't loud, know it all, and I was constantly fronting a lack of knowledge with this kind of fake filling the gaps with half-truths, personality and I just didn't like the answer to that. And so I started trying to be like okay, how can I be more honest and be a person I can be more proud of? And then that turned into the personal development stuff, and then that turned into the 75 hard and all these things I think all go together. It became easier to be more self-aware and audit those thoughts.
Speaker 2:I think it became important to me to audit those thoughts when I was 17, 18. And I started thinking how am I going to build my life into something meaningful? What do I want to do? How do I want to impact people? What business do I want to build? I had to be very honest with myself in those thoughts and I had to be very honest with myself in those thoughts and I still wasn't very good at it. It's a skill. It's a perishable skill. You have to practice it constantly.
Speaker 2:And the time I had the foundation, but I wasn't good at it, but I still did it to the best of my ability. And it came, it went, it got better, it got worse. I've let it go, I've rebuilt it and it became a way of thinking over the course of time, of consistent practice.
Speaker 2:It just became the way that I think that's where my mind just kind of naturally goes is what was I thinking earlier and why did I feel that way? Or like what am I feeling right now? Constantly I'm giving myself that really strange like third person kind of feeling. Like I'll just kind of touch this skin and really hyper focus on like that feeling of touch and get myself kind of in this third person state of mind like what am I thinking? What am I feeling right now? Can I feel the blood flow hit my fingertip? And then go back to the like really strange hyper, self-aware states of being. Yeah, I'm constantly putting myself through that and people freak out at the idea of doing that. So, like I don't want to feel like I'm in my own skin, that's weird. Like I've seen people actually have like physical, visceral reactions to that. I'm like that's weird to me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I get it, but it's weird to me. It became easier over time, but it definitely wasn't there always. Yeah. It was a foundation that was set by my dad, and then I was able to be self-aware enough to build on it, To build on it yeah, I think it all starts with.
Speaker 1:I think everything that you're doing and we've talked about like it all starts with self-awareness, Like if you don't have that skill, you know. Like, first find that skill and hone that skill. You also.
Speaker 2:self-awareness is also like there's layers and there's levels to the game, because you can be self-aware about your basic eating habits, but you might not be aware of where those things come from, and then you have to learn yourself. It's like constantly learning yourself and you'll have a new thought. We all have thoughts that are like what was that thought?
Speaker 2:You know like what in the world was that I would never act on that, but it's a part of who you are because you had the thought, so look into that. Where does that come from? What is that like? And it's just a constant game of learning yourself, because people can be self-aware, but they can only know what they know, and they don't know what they don't know until they discover or are prompted to think a different way, which then allows them to learn more. But they have to be actively trying to learn in order to get the opportunity to learn more through those prompts and experiences.
Speaker 2:It is a consistent game that you have to be playing all the time and it sounds labor intensive. Yes, initially you have to change how you think, but that's done through constantly evaluating your thoughts and trying to shift your thinking when you get the same stimulus One of my favorite definitions that Hormozy has for learning, and I think it's how smart someone is or knowledge is learning is same stimulus, different response. And learning is same stimulus, different response. And intelligence is rate of learning.
Speaker 1:Like how quickly you can learn something. Yeah, it's like if you reach.
Speaker 2:If you reach for the cup and I smack your hand and it takes you four times of doing that before you realize you shouldn't reach for the cup, you're not as intelligent as somebody who then reaches, gets smacked and learns the first time, and that to me I've applied that to. Okay. Well, if I can have, I have this set of thoughts or this set of emotions or this set of feelings when I experience a certain thing. Somebody cuts me off in traffic as an extreme example of that, or as just an example, not extreme. The next time that that happens I don't necessarily want to feel that way. So when that happens and then I get that feeling very quickly, just kind of dismiss it. It's like not important, doesn't matter. Fight every urge. You have to feel angry, upset, sad or otherwise yeah and you will.
Speaker 2:Through that effort, it will eventually become second nature and it will eventually become who you are. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So in that scenario or that definition, intelligence is like you have, you know, a certain level of intelligence in an individual and that doesn't change or that can change, but you're right.
Speaker 2:You can. It can change because some people will learn faster than others. But if you want to be considered more intelligent intelligent if we're using that as the definition you just have to decide to change your rate of learning. Rate of learning yeah, because that's something that's controllable, like people think that intelligence is predetermined by to some capacity that's what I was getting at.
Speaker 1:Right is is like your intelligence, like set, like your intelligence is is here, my intelligence is here, and like that's not going to change. I don't think so. Yeah, because I think I could.
Speaker 2:Really. I think if I got hyper fixated on something and then lost my ability to learn as quick or I didn't I wasn't as adaptable because I let certain skill sets go but you became more disciplined and honed in on those things, our perceived intelligence would definitely shift. I will say that it becomes harder to allow that to happen when you start focusing on discipline, because the moment like 75 hard has this effect where now that you know that you can do what the program requires, you can't not know what you're doing. That's screwing up your life, the level of self-awareness that you gain. You have to work exceptionally hard to get rid of that self-awareness, because now everything that you do that is inconsistent with who you want to be becomes painfully obvious where otherwise you were just living in ignorant bliss.
Speaker 2:So I think the more that you dive into that endeavor and the more intelligent and disciplined you try to become, the harder it is to lose the skillset, even though it is perishable, but the harder it is to lose it because you notice everything.
Speaker 2:You notice when you made the same mistake three times and you're like, oh my God, I've made the same mistake three times. And you're like, oh my God, I've made the same mistake three times. Holy smokes, I was doing that for the last 10 years of my life. Got to fix that, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then it comes down to your discipline to actually make the decision to fix it To fix it yeah. I like that I think that you're in full control of who you are. You just have to do the things, and they're hard to do.
Speaker 1:Very hard, but it can be done If people want to follow you and follow your journey and just learn more about what you're doing. What's your Instagram? What's the best way to connect with you?
Speaker 2:Instagram is five. The number five TV went out. The number five C-H-A-Y. It's my first name, five chay on instagram. My first and last name chay. Not on youtube. Chay not on youtube. And then my tiktok is five chay not, because chay not and five chay were both taken, so now it's different across all the platforms chay not on linkedin. I post most on Instagram. It's mostly where I am. I will be focusing very hard on short form content and written content on LinkedIn and TikTok here shortly, but that's to be determined.
Speaker 1:Nice. Che thanks for being here, man.
Speaker 2:This is fun, man. This is a good time, dude, hell yeah.
Speaker 1:Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Palm Harbor Local. We are incredibly grateful for our sponsors and our viewers, who make this show possible. Be sure to check out Jake with Roadmap Money you can find his link in the description below and keep supporting local businesses and let's build community together.
